[Coach Spyce]

Hi Krisann,

Welcome to the forum! Thanks for connecting and letting us know what you are dealing with!

I have a few thoughts on this, so here they are. First one is something I’ve been preaching for a very long time, which I call “Spyce’s rule of casz (as in casual)”. When you’re testing out the waters of someone’s interests and you don’t know for certain what they are, there’s no reason to be too overt and risk creating an awkward situation, especially with someone who may be in your life in other ways. So this is a good time to be friendly, but casual.

It sounds like you have propinquity because he’s in your brother’s life and subsequently yours, so when you do see him, treat him like a friend, or like someone that you’re really happy to see. There’s no reason to act shy, demure, or coy. Just be natural but also go out of your way to get to know him, the same way that you would any person that you are interested in learning more about. Don’t focus on the burning desire that you have for him, just concentrate on spending time and being personable.
Most of the best relationships come from friendships that grow over time.

Also, use this time to really get to know him and you might also get better answers to what’s going on in his life. For example, what’s his relationship style? His love languages? Is he actually someone who is available for a relationship? I recently saw a show where this girl liked her brother’s “best friend”. Turned out that her brother was in the closet and that his “best friend” was his boyfriend! Not that I’m saying that’s the case, but the more information you have, the better the outcome always is.

Excited to hear how it goes!
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Huyen,

So sorry for the delay in response! It must have actually been a technical error because I had responded but I don’t see anything here so I’ll respond again.

First off, someone yelling at you about how you have to calm down and that you’re too angry never really makes sense, does it? He is definitely projecting on that one!

Of course it’s a very difficult situation that you’re in, and I hope that you are able to make changes soon to facilitate a happier home environment. But in the meantime, you have to deal with someone who you have inherent issues ahd triggers with, and try to keep the peace as much as you can, while also making sure that your needs are being met.

It is wonderful that you are standing up for yourself and striving for clear communication. You are doing nothing wrong with that and everything right. And not that it’s right, but you must be prepared for some backlash and try not to let it dampen your desire to take care of yourself.
I’m confident that what you said was not overly harsh, but when someone is not used to you standing up for yourself, they can take any amount of strength as an attack. That’s on him though, not you.

The way that you responded sounds great. You didn’t blame him for anything, you simply stated what you want and need. Remember to keep using “I” statements and expressing how things make you feel from a place of asking for what you need.

In terms of what do you when he appears upset, the best tactic can be to acknowledge his emotions. For example, “I understand that you feel like I am angry, but I am not.” Also ask him if there’s a way that would work better for you to express yourself. For example: “I do feel like it’s important for me to be able to tell you what works for me. Is there a way I could do that that you would feel more comfortable with?”

This isn’t deferring to him, it’s just actually making you look like a good communicator, which is the crux of what you really want in this situation.

Here’s to you continuing to stand up for the most important person in your life, YOU!

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Samantha,

Have you posted in the forum before, or are you new here? If this is your first time with us, welcome and we are happy that you’re reaching out! I’d love to hear more about your story if you’re willing to share. It will allow us to be more helpful the more information we have about what’s going on with you.

Are you in a relationship right now? Have you broken up with your partner? Do you live together?

Oftentimes the disentangling process can take quite awhile, and someone can continue to want to have you in their life out of fear, necessity, or just plain familiarity, long after it’s really a good idea to still do so.

Or there may be other things that are going on causing him to feel like he wants to push you away.

Please send some more info and we will do our best to support you!

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hello,

I’m sorry to hear that he’s giving you so many mixes messages. I know that it’s very confusing and that happens because he obviously is unclear in himself. It sounds like he wants a fairy tale relationship, and if it doesn’t seem like that right off the bat, he is unwilling to do the work to see if it can get to that place.
But on the other hand, he’s trying to keep you on the hook, just in case. So it sounds like he is confused.

All you can control is what you do, and I’d start by asking how confused you are at this point as to whether or not you want to be with him. He’s not making the effort, so are you willing to chase after him to make him see what he’s missing? In reality, if the relationship starts out this way, there will always be a memory of this time when you had to convince him to be with you. That’s not respecting yourself, and you are worth more than that.

You deserve to be with someone who wants you and chooses you, not something that you have to persuade to love you. Whether its due to his own issues or not, it still is work that you shouldn’t have to take on.

So I agree with you. Write him a goodbye message, have closure, and move on. That’s not desperate, that’s strong and clear.

You can say what you told me, that you would like to get to know him better and see if you guys can have something, but that you’re not willing to chase someone to convince them of your worth. You know your worth and you’re better than that. If he can’t see that, it’s his loss. Godspeed and good luck.

How does that feel to you?

[Coach Spyce]

Hi there,

It’s difficult to say with certainty whether or not he’s responding to you out of a sense of guilt and concern, or if he’s actually trying to reconnect and rekindle the love and connection that you once had.
As I mentioned before, I don’t think that you go from being best friends with someone for 10 years, being romantically involved for a time after that, and then just go to nothing.
But in reality, it sounds like your romantic relationship started from a place of obligation. You said that you were in a low place in your life and he became romantically involved to help you, which gives me pause.

Now it sounds like he really wants to focus on getting his own life in order, which he has every right to do and will make him a better partner in the long run. If your relationship is based on mutual support, it might feel like a lot right now to continue on in that vein, and being less involved could potentially help both of you to grow as people. It sounds like you’ve been using the time away from him to work on yourself, and maybe we can do that as well.

It’s obvious that he still cares about you, and I’m sure that he always will. But taking a step back could help you both.

That being said, only you and him can decide what you want your relationship to look like. It sounds like it’s been very confusing and there’s a lot of back and forth. I would recommend having a clear and honest discussion with him.
Let him know how the uncertainty of the situation affects you and see if he has any more clarity on his own emotions. He may not, but at least starting the conversation will give you a place to move forward from.

Let me know what happens!
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi there,

How are things going? I apologize if I wasn’t clear on the parameters of the relationship and how things had been going with the two of you. As mentioned, I came a little late to the party so I may have been confused as to what was actually happening.

It sounds like he has strange ideas about love but not necessarily out of the norm for men. They think that they are going to feel something amazing right away, and if they don’t that its not real. when in reality, love grows. And as I mentioned above, you barely know each other. It’s ridiculous for him to think that he can make a determination in such a short time. That’s why I mentioned that you should get to know each other more, and it sounds like that was your plan as well.

Do you still want to break up with him?

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Jeanne,

Welcome to the forum, and I do apologize for the delay in response as your message got lost in the shuffle! But I am here for you now and happy to help you make sense of all this.

First off, I want to thank you for reaching out and sharing your story. I am so sorry that you are going through this heartbreak. It’s such an exciting feeling to reconnect with someone, and then to have this intense bond with them when you haven’t felt that in a long time can be truly intoxicating.

And of course, when you first meet someone (or re-meet as in this case), you are only seeing all of the best parts of them, and all of the parts you want to see, and trying to overlook any of those that are incongruent with yours. It’s natural to want to believe that something that you know is a dealbreaker for you will be ok, and that “love conquers all”, even if there are inherent incompatibilities looming in the foreground.

It sounds like he was aware that there were differences in your lifestyles that could lead to troubles, but passion and intensity can make us ignore those, and it sounds like he was able to do that, at least during the week. But then on the weekends when he was with friends or more deeply ensconced in other aspects of his life, it became more difficult to ignore. When he went on the trip, he was obviously severely influenced by his buddies and it became apparent that you wound’t fit into each other’s lives in reality, only in the fantasy that you were both participating in when you were connecting alone.

Now one could say that your solo interactions with someone are really the most important and while I happen to agree in some ways, it’s also fair to say that nothing exists in a vacuum and that having a compatible lifestyle, views, morals, etc really do hold weight in deepening of a relationship as well.

So that leads me to a question which is: how well did he fit into your life? How compatible is he with your lifestyle, your values, and the things that you hold dear? How much bending would you have to do to accommodate him as a partner? Would your friends and family accept him?

I know that this all feels like a huge rejection, and I want you to know that I am for certain sending lots of love to your hurting heart, but I do want you to think about these questions, and what the reality could be of who this person is and what they would be bringing to your life.

Please let me know, I’m awaiting your answer!
Best wishes,
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hey lady,

Well I’m glad to hear that these conversations have helped you gained some further understanding into his psyche. To be fair, I think that you are pretty intuitive and clear about his ways, and it’s just a further testament to how much you can trust your gut instincts, because it seems like you are often pretty spot on. But of course it helps to have someone outside of the situation point out a few things here and there. It can be difficult to always see clearly when we are in a situation, and all of the elements affect us so deeply.

To me it’s plain as day what a pleaser he is, as you mentioned, even down to wearing your favorite outfit when he visits you. I’m sure there must be that temptation to see if you can get him to cross his boundaries and go down the relationship road with you by appealing to that side of him, and it’s indicative of what a strong and upstanding person you are that you have never once tried to manipulate him into giving you that. In fact, you’ve even said that you only want him to open up to the deeper relationship with you if that’s what he really wants, and that is really commendable. You’re really such a good person, Samantha!

So yes, option three, releasing attachment and letting go of needing to have a certain outcome. Very deep work that can take many of us a lifetime to achieve. Sometimes I wonder if it’s in our makeup as humans to really be able to master this incredible feat. Buddhism touts this kind of activity as holy and sacred, and I concur that it likely is! But how is always the issue…

A few ideas come to mind.
One is something that we’ve talked about before, and that you reference here. And that is working on your own life’s goals and dreams, and moving forward in those realms as much as possible given the times that we are in.
The indomitable Mae West had a saying: The best way to get over someone is to get over someone else.
While there is some truth in that, I’m saying that here more as tongue in cheek, and mostly relating it to just other human relationships. Of course covid makes it difficult to cultivate friendships, but is there a way that you could be in better touch with a few friends? And along those lines, are there any girlfriends that know this struggle that you’ve been dealing with that maybe could act as a “sponsor” of sorts? Be willing to allow you to call them when you really want to call him? Something like that…

Something else that is perhaps more difficult in the short term but could be helpful in the longer term is going headfirst into your grief around this. Maybe you haven’t looked too deeply at that because you have been holding out hope that he is going to come around, but maybe it’s time to give up on that, and allow yourself to grieve the loss of the notion that he is going to be your partner.
Grief is a funny thing, because we can’t actually control it. It comes when we don’t ask it to, and when we say that we are good and ready to deal with it, it’s nowhere to be found. But if it’s something that you can access in some ways, dealing with that emotion might help.

I also have ideas around meditation and cord-cutting rituals but I’m not sure how woo-woo you are so I’ll save those unless you tell me that you’d like to know more.

Here for you and wishing you peace and success,
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Jamie,

That’s so great! A little communication can definitely go a long way! I’m really happy to hear that by expressing what you wanted, you were able to get a positive result. I hope that things will continue to go well and that you will be able to build a solid and sustainable relationship with this man.

And hoping that you will stay in touch with us and let us know how it goes, and absolutely reach out when you need support, clarity, or just a reminder of how much you deserve the best 🙂

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi there,

It is such a conundrum, isn’t it? To be honest, there’s not much you CAN do from here. Because the thing that you want is for someone else to want something. And yes, all of his actions point to that he does want those things, but all of his words indicate something different.

It does make sense that being someone who reacts very strongly to being pressured would feel like they wouldn’t know what they had until it’s gone. He has such an intense barrier to allowing himself to be loved, because to him, loving someone is tied up in sacrifice and putting your own needs on the back burner. So he’s terrified to love anyone, because as soon as he does, he puts his own needs aside and doesn’t feel like he can say no even if he wants to, hence the inability to set strong boundaries. So that’s why he would say that he doesn’t love you, because he’s afraid of getting pulled down into something where he won’t be able to stand up for himself, won’t be able to move forward in his business or other parts of his life. He’s obviously a people pleaser, especially to the ones that he cares the most about.

But he does love you, there’s no doubt about that. The thing is, he loves you “in his way”, which flies in the face of how you want to be loved, and how love works for you. You want what most people want in love. To feel cherished, secure, and as we’ve discussed, chosen. I’m wondering if having that kind of relationship just isn’t in his makeup. Or at least it’s not going to be until he really sees what his life is like without it.

The question remains, what to do from here. I’m not here to tell you what to do, as you need to make those decisions on your own. But I am here to encourage you to live your life in a way that’s fulfilling and in your best interests.

The way I see it, there are two choices.
You either keep going on as you have been, waiting for him to realize what he has, or praying for the day when he will be “ready” and see what’s been in front of his face all along. You can keep having these deep conversations with him where you hope that something profound will permeate and suddenly a lightbulb will go off and he will finally just choose you. I would never tell you that it can’t happen as I don’t know for sure and that’s all so dependent on his journey.
The other choice is to do something different. And that’s dependant on you, and your journey, and what you’re willing to risk.
There is a third choice, but it’s close to the first choice and is something akin to what you have been doing. And that is to just accept what is. I think the difference that I’m calling out here though is accepting it and not trying to change it. Accepting that he may never come around, and moving forward in your life with that firmly in mind. I know that it’s difficult to decide to not have hope, as hope is one of the most inspirational things in life, but also one of the most painful. But sometimes in life you have to give up hoping for something, fully accept that you can have happiness without it, and that is the missing piece that changes the outcome.

I really feel for you, and am rooting for your happiness!

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Faith,

Sorry for the delay in response! We are all in different timezones and I don’t typically log in to the forum on the weekends, so we lost connection for a few days there. But I’m back and it’s the beginning of the week where I am so we should be good to go!

So to address what’s happening here, first off, cut yourself some slack, gf! You don’t need to have all the answers and don’t expect that you’ll always do everything “right” or in the “strongest” way. Life is full of making the best decisions for ourselves, and then making horribly wrong ones that hopefully teach us a lesson and put us on a better path. So whatever you’re doing, remember that you’re learning more with each interaction and experience you have.

It’s not abnormal or weird that you’d want to stay connected with him. I totally understand the pull when you’re at work to joke around and kill time, and since you already had this level of deeper intimacy with him, it’s really hard now to go back to “being friends”. AND it feels like he’s rejecting you. But the truth is, he’s not.

Something I learned a long time ago is that if a guy tells you he’s bad for you, please believe him. If he tells you that he can’t give you what you need, AND is actively proving to you with not only his words but his actions that he can’t and won’t, believe him.

He’s not been in many relationships because of who knows what, but certainly something within himself. Do you think you can change that? Do you think you can fix him? Do you think that it will be different with you?
I gotta tell you, you can’t and it won’t.
He is confused himself. He is sad, he is dejected, he doesn’t have the things that he wants in life. And there’s nothing that you can do about that.

All you can do is control how you feel in the situation, and the actions that you take.

If you cement it in your head that he’s not for you, he has way too much baggage, he’s a loser in his own right, he can never give you what you deserve, and he can never be your boyfriend, then sure, maybe you can just enjoy the banter at work and be friends. But it doesn’t sound like you’re there right now. So like anything that feels so good in the moment but you know is bad for you in the long run, you have to just cut it out of your life and walk away.

I’m sorry gorgeous, but you will be so much better for it, I promise!!

Keep me updated 🙂
xoxo

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Jamie,

Welcome to the forum! Hopefully we can help you get some clarity on your relationships and create something sustainable and healthy!

The first thing that I see here is a lack of clarity. Many people just fall into relationships and then they don’t ask for clarification once they are in something as they don’t want to jinx it or scare the other person away. However, if you’re not clear about what you want, it can be very difficult to get it!

It sounds like this is what’s happening here. It’s not an easy thing, but it is important to be transparent with potential suitors from the very beginning, before you get your heart involved. Once you are connected to the person and seemingly dating, it can be very difficult to have that conversation about your wants and needs without being terrified that the person will ghost and/or say they are not ready, like what’s happened to you in the past. Then it feels like a hurtful rejection when in reality it’s not really personal, it’s just a mismatch. It’s important to be with someone who wants and is available for the same things that you are, and it’s not just something that you fall into like a hole in the ground!

The good news though is that it’s not too late. You’ve only been dating a short time and it’s actually proactive for you to let him know now what you want and need from the situation. You can say something like this:

It seems clear to me from your actions that you are wanting to have me around more. I am up for that as well, but here is what I need in order to do that.

And then tell him what you want and need. He either steps up to the plate, or he’s not the right one and you need to move on because it will just get worse if you don’t.

How does that sound?
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi there,

Thanks so much for sharing more of your story! For certain you have a deep connection with this person, and that’s not something that can just go away so easily. Obviously he still cares about you, and you him. The times when he said he didn’t love you sound like they were coming from a place of grief, sadness, overwhelm, and confusion. He was certainly not in a clear place where he’d thought about things in a deep way and then came to the conclusion that he didn’t love you. It sounds like he was very much in a reactive mode when he made those hurtful statements.

It also sounds to me that he is trying to make amends. Many men don’t know how to be open with their feelings, and it can take awhile of living life and going through difficulties for them to get to a place where they are ready and willing to take a good hard look at themselves and make the necessary changes. You’ve said yourself that he’s rather immature in some ways, and it sounds like he takes the opinions of his friends and family very seriously, another sign of insecurity and immaturity. But perhaps by going through these traumatic experiences with you he is starting to grow up, and realizing what he needs to do in order to get what he wants.

One thing I can say is that I’m sure he’s not just trying to be nice. What good would that do if he didn’t want to be nice to you, or didn’t have feelings for you? You were best friends for 10 years, of course he cares about you deeply. But he’s in pain and dealing with his emotions the best way he knows how, by acting angry, blaming you, and pulling away. At this point though it sounds like he’s moving on from those feelings, and perhaps might be ready to start seeing the bigger picture in a more clear way.

My best advice would be to take things slow. I know it feels like you just want to jump back into his arms the moment that he will open them, but he needs to understand that how he’s been treating you is not ok, and not what you will accept and stand for. If you don’t stay strong, the next time there is an issue he will just do the same thing.

So take it slow, and while he’s in this open place of wanting to reconnect, try and talk about where things went awry. Try to hear from his perspective why he did the things that he did. If he understands the reason, he will be less likely to do them as well.

Hope this helps!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Wow!! Samantha, I am so proud to read your update! To me that seems huge! The thing that I am the most happy about is how transparent you were with him, and how even in just you speaking what you needed, you set a boundary!
Having that really honest discussion with him where you lay it all out on the line is a wonderful step in the right direction.

The fact that he’s not willing to fight for things and will let things go so easily is very problematic to me. Once again it just feels like you are doing all the work in this relationship, and he is getting all the benefits. It’s really unfair. I know that he gives a lot to you, but the one thing that he won’t give is where the sticking point is, and it’s the thing that you want the most.

He is so used to you being there, endlessly, tirelessly. And I understand that while he won’t fight for anything and you are scared that he will just leave it be if you drop out, I am so curious what he would say if you were to answer a flat out no to his last question. If you were to say, “no, being in a pseudo relationship with you that you won’t commit to is hurting my self esteem, and I’m not able to do it anymore”, how would he respond?

I know that would be very frightening as you feel like likely he would just accept it, but you would then have your answer to your original question that you came on here to ask. But I am not suggesting that you do that until you are absolutely ready to.

In the meantime, I think more deep conversation with him is in order where you call him out on these things that he doesn’t want to cop to.
For example, you said “And added that it’s good understanding for me as it forces me to accept that, no matter his actions, he doesn’t have feelings for me and is willing to risk losing me from his life. So I know I have to focus on letting go and getting myself to a place where I can find someone who wants what I want and can give me what I need.

He read that but didn’t reply for ages and then said ‘on that note, are you sure this is helping? i.e sex’.”

So you made some assumptions there and just let it go out into the ethers. His response was very much a sidestep of the situation. Have you ever asked him point blank: Do you love me? Are you willing to risk losing me?

I’d be very interested to hear the answers to those questions….

In terms of the boundaries thing and why I say that I think he has issues there, is because of his inability to let himself enjoy things and really just live life as it comes. If you remember I said that the healthiest boundaries are filters, not shields, and while on the surface it might seem to you that he is great with boundaries because he’s very clear about what he will and won’t do, all of those seem to be coming from a place of fear and disempowerment. He’s afraid that if he’s in a relationship that he won’t be able to stay true to what he needs for himself. He’s afraid that he won’t be able to get his business on track, get his life together. He’s afraid that he will lose himself in the other person, and not be able to stop giving too much. It sounds to me like he just doesn’t know how to truly say no.

And that’s also a part of why he’s stringing you along. He doesn’t know how to truly say yes because he doesn’t know how to truly say no.

And therein lies the issue…

[Coach Spyce]

Unfortunately healing is not a linear process and it’s a difficult thing to “speed up”. Everyone has to do it in their own time, and in the way that works for them. The only way I can ever see the ability to speed things along is by being blatantly honest about your needs/wants and letting the chips fall where they may.
It’s not the same as giving an ultimatum, but it is setting a boundary and doing what you need to do for your own mental health.

As you’ve said from the beginning, you are struggling with anxiety. This is why you were drinking excessively. And now you’ve made the brave and not easy decision to quit using substances to deal with your emotions and to focus on your healing in a sober space instead. That is no easy task, and I really want you to give yourself credit for that.

You say that you were the main problem, and it sounds like you’re owning that fully, and doing everything in your power to make healthy and positive changes. But a relationship is a two way street, and he needs to be willing to take responsibility for his part in it as well. You can’t be the only one who makes changes, and I don’t think that you’re the problem. There are issues that exist between the two of you that is both of your responsibilities, and if he wants the relationship, he has to be willing to own that. It’s not fair if it’s all on you, AND it’s not realistic that it will get fixed if it’s only you doing the work.

I understand that you don’t want to be too intense with him for fear of him running away, but it’s important for you to speak your truth, and that’s honestly what I think is the best way forward.
Is there a way that you can connect with him about how you feel without blaming him, and taking the responsibility for your actions the way that you’re doing now?
Being clear and self aware is not desperate or needy, it’s actually focused and mature. Tell him what you need to have happen, show him where you’re doing the work, have a specific ask of him, mayue with a timeline attached. Like by this date I need us to make this step.

You can’t be stuck in limbo forever, and it’s not good for either of you to be in that kind of situation.

Let me know if this helps!

[Author]

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