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Jamie,
That’s so great! A little communication can definitely go a long way! I’m really happy to hear that by expressing what you wanted, you were able to get a positive result. I hope that things will continue to go well and that you will be able to build a solid and sustainable relationship with this man.
And hoping that you will stay in touch with us and let us know how it goes, and absolutely reach out when you need support, clarity, or just a reminder of how much you deserve the best 🙂
xoxo
SpyceHi there,
It is such a conundrum, isn’t it? To be honest, there’s not much you CAN do from here. Because the thing that you want is for someone else to want something. And yes, all of his actions point to that he does want those things, but all of his words indicate something different.
It does make sense that being someone who reacts very strongly to being pressured would feel like they wouldn’t know what they had until it’s gone. He has such an intense barrier to allowing himself to be loved, because to him, loving someone is tied up in sacrifice and putting your own needs on the back burner. So he’s terrified to love anyone, because as soon as he does, he puts his own needs aside and doesn’t feel like he can say no even if he wants to, hence the inability to set strong boundaries. So that’s why he would say that he doesn’t love you, because he’s afraid of getting pulled down into something where he won’t be able to stand up for himself, won’t be able to move forward in his business or other parts of his life. He’s obviously a people pleaser, especially to the ones that he cares the most about.
But he does love you, there’s no doubt about that. The thing is, he loves you “in his way”, which flies in the face of how you want to be loved, and how love works for you. You want what most people want in love. To feel cherished, secure, and as we’ve discussed, chosen. I’m wondering if having that kind of relationship just isn’t in his makeup. Or at least it’s not going to be until he really sees what his life is like without it.
The question remains, what to do from here. I’m not here to tell you what to do, as you need to make those decisions on your own. But I am here to encourage you to live your life in a way that’s fulfilling and in your best interests.
The way I see it, there are two choices.
You either keep going on as you have been, waiting for him to realize what he has, or praying for the day when he will be “ready” and see what’s been in front of his face all along. You can keep having these deep conversations with him where you hope that something profound will permeate and suddenly a lightbulb will go off and he will finally just choose you. I would never tell you that it can’t happen as I don’t know for sure and that’s all so dependent on his journey.
The other choice is to do something different. And that’s dependant on you, and your journey, and what you’re willing to risk.
There is a third choice, but it’s close to the first choice and is something akin to what you have been doing. And that is to just accept what is. I think the difference that I’m calling out here though is accepting it and not trying to change it. Accepting that he may never come around, and moving forward in your life with that firmly in mind. I know that it’s difficult to decide to not have hope, as hope is one of the most inspirational things in life, but also one of the most painful. But sometimes in life you have to give up hoping for something, fully accept that you can have happiness without it, and that is the missing piece that changes the outcome.I really feel for you, and am rooting for your happiness!
Hi Faith,
Sorry for the delay in response! We are all in different timezones and I don’t typically log in to the forum on the weekends, so we lost connection for a few days there. But I’m back and it’s the beginning of the week where I am so we should be good to go!
So to address what’s happening here, first off, cut yourself some slack, gf! You don’t need to have all the answers and don’t expect that you’ll always do everything “right” or in the “strongest” way. Life is full of making the best decisions for ourselves, and then making horribly wrong ones that hopefully teach us a lesson and put us on a better path. So whatever you’re doing, remember that you’re learning more with each interaction and experience you have.
It’s not abnormal or weird that you’d want to stay connected with him. I totally understand the pull when you’re at work to joke around and kill time, and since you already had this level of deeper intimacy with him, it’s really hard now to go back to “being friends”. AND it feels like he’s rejecting you. But the truth is, he’s not.
Something I learned a long time ago is that if a guy tells you he’s bad for you, please believe him. If he tells you that he can’t give you what you need, AND is actively proving to you with not only his words but his actions that he can’t and won’t, believe him.
He’s not been in many relationships because of who knows what, but certainly something within himself. Do you think you can change that? Do you think you can fix him? Do you think that it will be different with you?
I gotta tell you, you can’t and it won’t.
He is confused himself. He is sad, he is dejected, he doesn’t have the things that he wants in life. And there’s nothing that you can do about that.All you can do is control how you feel in the situation, and the actions that you take.
If you cement it in your head that he’s not for you, he has way too much baggage, he’s a loser in his own right, he can never give you what you deserve, and he can never be your boyfriend, then sure, maybe you can just enjoy the banter at work and be friends. But it doesn’t sound like you’re there right now. So like anything that feels so good in the moment but you know is bad for you in the long run, you have to just cut it out of your life and walk away.
I’m sorry gorgeous, but you will be so much better for it, I promise!!
Keep me updated 🙂
xoxoHi Jamie,
Welcome to the forum! Hopefully we can help you get some clarity on your relationships and create something sustainable and healthy!
The first thing that I see here is a lack of clarity. Many people just fall into relationships and then they don’t ask for clarification once they are in something as they don’t want to jinx it or scare the other person away. However, if you’re not clear about what you want, it can be very difficult to get it!
It sounds like this is what’s happening here. It’s not an easy thing, but it is important to be transparent with potential suitors from the very beginning, before you get your heart involved. Once you are connected to the person and seemingly dating, it can be very difficult to have that conversation about your wants and needs without being terrified that the person will ghost and/or say they are not ready, like what’s happened to you in the past. Then it feels like a hurtful rejection when in reality it’s not really personal, it’s just a mismatch. It’s important to be with someone who wants and is available for the same things that you are, and it’s not just something that you fall into like a hole in the ground!
The good news though is that it’s not too late. You’ve only been dating a short time and it’s actually proactive for you to let him know now what you want and need from the situation. You can say something like this:
It seems clear to me from your actions that you are wanting to have me around more. I am up for that as well, but here is what I need in order to do that.
And then tell him what you want and need. He either steps up to the plate, or he’s not the right one and you need to move on because it will just get worse if you don’t.
How does that sound?
xoxo
SpyceHi there,
Thanks so much for sharing more of your story! For certain you have a deep connection with this person, and that’s not something that can just go away so easily. Obviously he still cares about you, and you him. The times when he said he didn’t love you sound like they were coming from a place of grief, sadness, overwhelm, and confusion. He was certainly not in a clear place where he’d thought about things in a deep way and then came to the conclusion that he didn’t love you. It sounds like he was very much in a reactive mode when he made those hurtful statements.
It also sounds to me that he is trying to make amends. Many men don’t know how to be open with their feelings, and it can take awhile of living life and going through difficulties for them to get to a place where they are ready and willing to take a good hard look at themselves and make the necessary changes. You’ve said yourself that he’s rather immature in some ways, and it sounds like he takes the opinions of his friends and family very seriously, another sign of insecurity and immaturity. But perhaps by going through these traumatic experiences with you he is starting to grow up, and realizing what he needs to do in order to get what he wants.
One thing I can say is that I’m sure he’s not just trying to be nice. What good would that do if he didn’t want to be nice to you, or didn’t have feelings for you? You were best friends for 10 years, of course he cares about you deeply. But he’s in pain and dealing with his emotions the best way he knows how, by acting angry, blaming you, and pulling away. At this point though it sounds like he’s moving on from those feelings, and perhaps might be ready to start seeing the bigger picture in a more clear way.
My best advice would be to take things slow. I know it feels like you just want to jump back into his arms the moment that he will open them, but he needs to understand that how he’s been treating you is not ok, and not what you will accept and stand for. If you don’t stay strong, the next time there is an issue he will just do the same thing.
So take it slow, and while he’s in this open place of wanting to reconnect, try and talk about where things went awry. Try to hear from his perspective why he did the things that he did. If he understands the reason, he will be less likely to do them as well.
Hope this helps!
xoxo
SpyceWow!! Samantha, I am so proud to read your update! To me that seems huge! The thing that I am the most happy about is how transparent you were with him, and how even in just you speaking what you needed, you set a boundary!
Having that really honest discussion with him where you lay it all out on the line is a wonderful step in the right direction.The fact that he’s not willing to fight for things and will let things go so easily is very problematic to me. Once again it just feels like you are doing all the work in this relationship, and he is getting all the benefits. It’s really unfair. I know that he gives a lot to you, but the one thing that he won’t give is where the sticking point is, and it’s the thing that you want the most.
He is so used to you being there, endlessly, tirelessly. And I understand that while he won’t fight for anything and you are scared that he will just leave it be if you drop out, I am so curious what he would say if you were to answer a flat out no to his last question. If you were to say, “no, being in a pseudo relationship with you that you won’t commit to is hurting my self esteem, and I’m not able to do it anymore”, how would he respond?
I know that would be very frightening as you feel like likely he would just accept it, but you would then have your answer to your original question that you came on here to ask. But I am not suggesting that you do that until you are absolutely ready to.
In the meantime, I think more deep conversation with him is in order where you call him out on these things that he doesn’t want to cop to.
For example, you said “And added that it’s good understanding for me as it forces me to accept that, no matter his actions, he doesn’t have feelings for me and is willing to risk losing me from his life. So I know I have to focus on letting go and getting myself to a place where I can find someone who wants what I want and can give me what I need.He read that but didn’t reply for ages and then said ‘on that note, are you sure this is helping? i.e sex’.”
So you made some assumptions there and just let it go out into the ethers. His response was very much a sidestep of the situation. Have you ever asked him point blank: Do you love me? Are you willing to risk losing me?
I’d be very interested to hear the answers to those questions….
In terms of the boundaries thing and why I say that I think he has issues there, is because of his inability to let himself enjoy things and really just live life as it comes. If you remember I said that the healthiest boundaries are filters, not shields, and while on the surface it might seem to you that he is great with boundaries because he’s very clear about what he will and won’t do, all of those seem to be coming from a place of fear and disempowerment. He’s afraid that if he’s in a relationship that he won’t be able to stay true to what he needs for himself. He’s afraid that he won’t be able to get his business on track, get his life together. He’s afraid that he will lose himself in the other person, and not be able to stop giving too much. It sounds to me like he just doesn’t know how to truly say no.
And that’s also a part of why he’s stringing you along. He doesn’t know how to truly say yes because he doesn’t know how to truly say no.
And therein lies the issue…
Unfortunately healing is not a linear process and it’s a difficult thing to “speed up”. Everyone has to do it in their own time, and in the way that works for them. The only way I can ever see the ability to speed things along is by being blatantly honest about your needs/wants and letting the chips fall where they may.
It’s not the same as giving an ultimatum, but it is setting a boundary and doing what you need to do for your own mental health.As you’ve said from the beginning, you are struggling with anxiety. This is why you were drinking excessively. And now you’ve made the brave and not easy decision to quit using substances to deal with your emotions and to focus on your healing in a sober space instead. That is no easy task, and I really want you to give yourself credit for that.
You say that you were the main problem, and it sounds like you’re owning that fully, and doing everything in your power to make healthy and positive changes. But a relationship is a two way street, and he needs to be willing to take responsibility for his part in it as well. You can’t be the only one who makes changes, and I don’t think that you’re the problem. There are issues that exist between the two of you that is both of your responsibilities, and if he wants the relationship, he has to be willing to own that. It’s not fair if it’s all on you, AND it’s not realistic that it will get fixed if it’s only you doing the work.
I understand that you don’t want to be too intense with him for fear of him running away, but it’s important for you to speak your truth, and that’s honestly what I think is the best way forward.
Is there a way that you can connect with him about how you feel without blaming him, and taking the responsibility for your actions the way that you’re doing now?
Being clear and self aware is not desperate or needy, it’s actually focused and mature. Tell him what you need to have happen, show him where you’re doing the work, have a specific ask of him, mayue with a timeline attached. Like by this date I need us to make this step.You can’t be stuck in limbo forever, and it’s not good for either of you to be in that kind of situation.
Let me know if this helps!
Haha, I’m so glad that my being blatantly honest makes you think that I am nice! See how easy that is?
Thanks for telling me more about what’s going on in your life. I totally understand wanting to have someone in your life that you feel like has your back, is your person, and is someone who will always be there for you. That’s what we all want, and eventually many of us get there. I truly believe that it’s possible for everyone, and a lot of it has to do with knowing your worth, and not settling for someone who is not giving you exactly what you deserve.
It’s really nice that you have a friend who wants to have that with you, and if he’s a really good friend, maybe the attraction will grow over time. But here’s the thing. You have your entire life ahead of you! You have so much relationship experience to explore. It’s so important to discover who you are and what you really want before resigning yourself to a relationship that you’re not 100% excited about. You have plenty of time in your life to settle, now is not the time for that!
Live life, and try to take things slow. Focus on what you want in life for yourself, outside of the desire for someone else. You don’t need anyone else to tell you that you’re beautiful and worthwhile. You need to know that in yourself. And when you do, you will attract the kind of man that you desire.
And in terms of your friend Mr Loser, guys like him are so obnoxious and a dime a dozen. I am sure he might seem cool right now, but I assure you, he is not. When you are his age, you will see how low on the totem pole of decent men he is. In the meantime, you have to just try and reframe the situation. There are a million reasons why this isn’t a good match, but none of them are because there’s anything wrong with you.
Think about it…do you really want to be with this guy? Do you really want to be snuck into his dirty room? I don’t see why…So remember that. You don’t want this guy. You want someone different, someone good, someone cool, someone who will have your back and be there for you. Drop the douche and move on!
You got this, girlfriend 🙂
Haha, YOU’RE awesome! Too awesome to be wasting time with a loser like this guy. Everything that you’re telling me about him only makes his LOSER status rise in my opinion.
There’s a reason that he’s spending time with you, and that’s because no one his age who is ready for a real relationship would have any interest in him! You’re young, and because of that you’re more forgiving. As I said before, if you were talking about a guy within your age range who worked a crappy minimum wage job, lived with his mom in a dirty room full of empty beer cans, filthy bongwater, playing video games all the time, I would say…”doesn’t sound like great relationship material”. BUT I would cut him some slack because he’s young and it’s ok if you don’t have your stuff together in your early-mid 20s.
But this guy is a GROWN ASS MAN and his behaviour is just redonkulous.You want to know what kind of man doesn;t have sex for 5 years? A loser who lives with his mom in a dirty room full of empty beer cans, filthy bongwater, playing video games all the time, that’s who.
He is stunted, and that’s why he even thought it was ok to even be with you in the first place. He has no other prospects because women his age won’t give him the time of day. He also probably knows that trying to be with you is pretty damm pathetic, so he’s at least doing something right by cutting it off.
But here’s the thing, gorgeous! Please don’t think that any of this is because you’re not good enough for him. He’s not good enough for you!! Please don’t waste any more time trying to get him to like you. Please just ignore him and move on. Seriously girl. Lose his number! Let’s find someone worthy of your attention to focus it on.
Tell me more about what you want in life. What kind of guy do you like? Who do you envision yourself being with? What are the traits that are important to you?
You’re a beautiful young girl, the world is your oyster. Please don’t throw away your precious time trying to connect with some middle aged deadbeat. Look to the future!
I just wanted to clarify that last line, because I know that him dating someone else is not really the issue here, at least not the present one. But it’s really stuck with me what you’ve said about wanting someone who will have your back, be there for you AND commit to it verbally so you can relax, and you don’t have to keep worrying about it.
That’s what I want to see for you. That rest and release when you just know that someone is there for you, no matter what. You are their priority, they are your person. Having that would greatly enable you to move forward on all your exciting projects in a big way.Something I feel like I’m not clear on, and I wonder if you really are either, is what does he need to feel ready? What exactly is he waiting for? Why is the “wobble” even called that? Why is it a bad thing? So he wobbled into being human, enjoying love and companionship with the most important person in his life? Because he allowed himself to feel happy before…before what? What it is that he needs to prove to himself or to anyone else?
If you can really get deep into the heart of these questions, I think that you will have more answers. And at this point, you might be the only one who can get the answers. It sounds like you’re the only one he talks to with any transparency.
So get curious. And don’t make it about you, what you need, or what he thinks you need from him, just try to get some answers, AND make him think more deeply about his own self worth. Remind him that he is loved and valued just as he is. Let him know how great of a partner he already is.
What really is the issue here?I have a feeling his problem is boundaries too, but I want to hear more from you first.
Hello Ecaterina (pretty name!)
This is Spyce, I am one of the new coaches on the forum. Glad to see that you’ve had some really helpful conversations with Heidi! I’m happy to know that it’s been helping. Heidi is a way for a bit so I can give you some thoughts in the meantime, even though I may not know as many details.
People have different speeds when it comes to love and being in relationships. As women, we are taught to fall in love quickly. And as men, we are taught that love is a sign of weakness, and to hold out as long as possible before giving in. because once you give in, you’re trapped. That certainly doesnt have to be the case but since it often is, men are wary.
To me, that’s what this sounds like. It sounds like you moved too fast for him, and you scared him away. You’ve only known him a couple months, yes? Get to know him a bit more. See if he’s even the kind of person that YOU want to be in a relationship with. Just be a bit more casual with him.
Don’t be caught up with the idea that you’re going to be together forever or that you need an answer now. Just spend time with him, get to know him. Chat and go out with other men, you’re not in a relationship.
He doesn’t love you because he doesn’t know you. Give him a chance to relax before you throw all your pearls at him.Hoping it goes well!
SpyceHi Lilli,
This is Spyce, I am a new coach on the forum. Heidi is out for a few days so won’t be able to respond. I see that you have a long history of chatting with her so I won’t try too hard to get in the middle of that. However, I am happy to give my thoughts on your situation once I’ve caught up a bit more!
In the meantime, I can answer your question about social media and men trying to connect on there. I think that it feels much safer for men to be able to like photos and have casual interactions with women online evern if they are married or in a relationship as it’s not technically cheating. Social media is just a friendly place where connections of all kinds can be made. Business, educational, community, friendships. It’s not a dating site, so their wives and partners can’t actually get mad at them for being on it.
That being said, I always find it strange when men do use it as a way to date, or try to connect romantically with someone. There is so little anonymity on much of social media that it doesn’t really feel safe to me to establish connection to someone like that. I personally don’t want someone to know everything about me off the bat, and I don’t accept friend requests from people that I’m not connected to in some way, especially men.
I’ve actually been seeing many profiles that seem fake, where a handsome doctor or other high level professional will send a friend request and try to connect. It’s highly unlikely that they are who they say that they are!That’s my 2 cents on it all.
Nice to meet you!
SpyceIt’s great that you’re doing therapy and becoming more aware of how you’re being affected by the choices you make, and the relationship that you’re in.
Is he willing to do therapy as well? It sounds like it could really benefit him and might actually be the thing that saves your relationship.You said that you want to give it a real shot, but that he doesn’t have much capacity to talk about his feelings. Sadly though, without him going deeper into his emotional body as well, it’s going to be difficult for you to make any progress. It also sounds tough that he uses alcohol to open up, but is asking you to refrain. How do you feel about that?
Obviously there are issues that stem from before this break in your relationship, and it sounds like you haven’t really felt fulfilled for awhile. Have you been holding back on asking for what you really want because you are afraid if you do that he will leave?
If you feel like you have to tiptoe around him in order to be together, that’s not a sustainable situation either….In terms of the book or any of our material here, it’s all here for you to glean wisdom from and connect with. However this forum is really the best way to get feedback on your own particular situation, so hopefully we can guide you here to make the decisions that will keep you feeling empowered and happy!
Talk soon!
SpyceHi Faith,
Hello and welcome to the forum! Glad that you’re here with us, and we look forward to helping you navigate the tricky waters of the relationship world!
So I’m sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but this situation has RED FLAG written all over it!
First of the broken cardinal rules is this: YOU WORK TOGETHER!!
Big no no! Have you ever heard of the expression, “Don’t sh*t where you eat”? This is exactly what that is referring to.The only way to ever meet someone at work and have it go well is if you have known them for years, or if you are totally ok with walking away from the job if things get dicey. Because if you barely know them and you connect with them, then they will.Secondly, this guy is 34, lives with his mother, and had to sneak you in. Ok you’re 19. If you live with your mother, or if you met a guy your age that lives with his mother I wouldn’t think anything of it. But he’s old enough to know better. And the sneaking around part? Why is he sneaking you in? Is it because of your age?
Third, you were both drunk, which in your case, isn’t even legal (unless it is where you live). But to be fair, nothing good can happen when people are connecting for the first time when they are drunk. It’s all just a recipe for disaster.
This guy sounds like a real piece of work. Please delete his number and never contact him again. I’m sure that you can do way better than a 34 year old loser who lives with his mom who seduces young co-workers, gets them drunk, sleeps with them, and then drops them.
There’s only one thing that he got right. And that’s when he said that you’re awesome and gorgeous. You are, I’m sure! So value yourself more than that, sweetie! Don’t give him anymore of your precious time. The guy is a tool.
xoxo
SpyceHi there,
I know that those words are hard to hear, and I’m sorry to have to to say them. Even though we just met recently, I really do think the world of you, and admire your commitment to your goals, and your desire for self awareness. You probably already know this, but that’s WHY I am saying these things. Because I really want to see you being valued.
I agree that his words and actions are confusing and out of alignment, and it’s obvious that he is super confused himself. On one hand he’s telling you that you’re the most important person in his life, and on the other hand he’s saying that he’s not willing to give you, that most important person in his life, what you need to feel safe and comfortable. Perhaps he feels like he doesn’t have it to give, but as we already discussed, he’s basically giving it to you already.
It’s not that I think he won’t change his mind, it’s that I don’t want to see you waiting around for him, endlessly available and pining for someone. You are worth more than that, and you’re disrespecting your value. Don’t you feel like in some ways it make your self esteem worse? You must ask yourself all the time, “why is it that he doesn’t want to be with me? What is it about me that pushes him away?” And then the dreaded, “What can I do to change how he feels?”
Even if you know in your heart of hearts that it’s not you, and that he needs to do the work to make the change in himself to know that HE deserves you, I’m sure that it still feels like constant rejection. And I hate to see that for you.
It just feels so dicey waiting on someone else’s healing to have what you want. This situation seems to me to be a big part of why you don’t feel like you deserve more, or that you can have that. You’re ok with what you have now, it’s more than you’ve had before, so you don’t want to risk losing it. I understand that completely.The thing is, setting boundaries is risky business. Because there’s always the chance that someone is not going to like your boundaries, and not going to respect them. And then you have to employ the most difficult part of the boundary game and stick to them. Coming up with boundaries may be hard, but sticking to the boundaries that you set when they aren’t respected is the hardest part of all.
So I can tell you more about boundaries, and what I think your particular boundaries are going to be, but you may not like what I have to say. That’s why I think it’s important for you to decide on your own, what you are willing to risk in order to get what you want. I don’t think that you’re ready to risk losing him, and that’s a very real possibility if you tell him that you are no longer willing to continue on with the status quo of your relationship.
But I do wonder what his response would be if he knew that he could lose you. Not as an ultimatum, but speaking to the fact that you deserve to be happy, and you deserve to be chosen. And that you won’t continue to be the most important person to someone who isn’t committing to not throwing you under the bus if someone else comes along who he likes better.
So that’s a big part of it.
Thoughts?
