[Coach Spyce]

Hey lady,

You sound really healthy, and definitely in a great space of doing the work that needs to be done to heal. I understand what Heidi means about not focusing on him coming back and doing your own healing around it, and it sounds like you are doing that well. Because let’s be real. He WILL contact you again someday. I know it, you know it. As long as you are not focused on that, and waiting for the time when hewill do that, I think knowing that in the back of your mind can actually help the healing process.
You know that he’s there somewhere. You know that he does love you, even if he’s not able to show it in the way that works for an intense relationship. And you also know that you will be ok. And no matter what happens moving forward, you did get to have that what if romance that rarely happens in real life. You got to see how things played out after so many decades. And it’s amazing. ythat it was so incredible, and who knows what will happen from here. But I think as long as you’re not sabing yourself for him, or pining away waiting for his call, you’re doing good.

In terms of what to do in the meantime, I like your inclination to NOT get involved with someone new, especially someone that you have the SAME RED FLAG as Joey, without all the incredible memories and years of pursuit.
Seriously girl, do you want another damn baby/man to suck up more of your time? My vote is hell naw, this is a time for you. Nobody else. You’re awesome and a catch. When you’re ready, the right man will come.
I mean, you’ve been single for what, a week? And you already found someone? You will never have a problem lady, so just focus on YOU!!

Because I just need to say, the right man is someone that you wouldn’t need all that space from. You wouldn’t be drained by him, you’d be supported by him. Being with him would make your life better, not with more to deal with.

Huzzah!
Keep us in the loop, we’re invested now 😉

Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Jennifer,

Welcome to the forum! Thanks for reaching out and telling us more about your situation.

Definitely tricky stuff whenever you’re in a situation where you are connected in some other way; be it work, friends, or especially, through children.
Because when it ends, there are these other asepcts that you have to navigate, and that can cause more hurt, pain, loss, etc. So it’s always important to tread lightly when there are extenuating circumstances.

But of course, it’s so hard when you meet someone that you really enjoy and can see yourself being with in a deeper way to not let yourself fall into the abyss of love and potential, even if the timing or something else just isn’t ideal. What can you do?

I’m wondering if he told you from the beginning that he wasn’t interested in something serious, or did that come up recently as it was starting to get serious? The timing of that can indicate whether or not someone is truly tethered to that, or if it’s fear talking as something starts to feel real…

I do hacve to tell you though as a rule of thumb, I do agree with him. While I always advocate for people to take time in between relationships to sort themselves out, all relationships are somewhat different and there are many shades of gray whenever emotions are involved. There are many different reasons why people split up, and sometimes that’ve been essentially removed from each other for a long time and it’s not as fresh, even if the official break up happened recently. And others are in it deep until the end, and even then once it’s over, they are still in it, and still needing to heal from it.
I assume if this is the mom of his kids, there could be other extenuating circumstances as well.

So to me at this time I don’t see it as a black and white answer, unless you just want a flat out NO. Like, he said that he doesn’t want a relationship and you do, so move on. But as I mentioned, life is more nuanced than that, and we need to know more of the picture in order to determine whether you should hang in there, or if it’s time to switch playgrounds!

Tell us more!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hello Wendy,

Welcome to the forum! So sorry to hear that you are hurting. It definitely feels awful when you have a feeling of mistrust with your significant other.
Is this something that you’ve experienced with him before?

There’s a lot going on here and it’s difficult to know the extent of it all.

You said, I just found out he is cheating on me. I saw a woman that he insisted is his friend go into his house and is still there now
How do you know that this means he is cheating on you? Did you see them being intimate?

He has told you that they are just friends. What are the reasons why you don’t believe him?

You also said that he hurt me so much.
Can you give some more context here? Are you referring to the current situation or are there other things going on?

I know that you’re in a world of pain right now and I’m so sorry for that. If you don’t want to talk about it more in depth, I totally understand!
But it helps us a lot as coaches to learn more about the story and what’s going on so we can support you with the most relevant advice possible!

Please let us know more,
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Vicky,

Welcome to the forum, and thanks so much for putting yourself out there and sharing your story, even though it felt tough to do so! I can tell from your post that you’re a strong person who is used to being able to achieve her goals by way of her own intuition and assertiveness.
These are great qualities that I hope you hold on to and continue to foster in yourself.

First off, I am so sorry that you are in pain. This kind of thing never feels good as it’s hard to have that rush of love and then the dopamine drop when it’s taken away. Super hard, and please do something nice for yourself and take care of yourself well right now.

In terms of your situation, what’s going on here is wrong and straight up super duper immature on his part. In a real adult relationship if you have an issue, or something comes up for you with someone that you love, you use your words and speak to them. If you can’t do that, you are not big enough mentally to ride this ride. And I’m sorry to say, but it sounds like that’s what you’re dealing with here. His complete and utter lack of response does not sound like a healthy adult male to me. It sounds like the response of a twelve year old, plain and simple.

That being said, you are not the fool. Far from it! You are a loving and caring woman who opened herself up beautifully and vulnerably thinking that she was being matched. Unfortunately, she wasn’t. But that’s not anything that makes you wrong or bad. There was no “damage” that you did by simply being honest and making a couple of offhanded and perfectly legitimate remarks. Yes if you break up it would be sad, but life goes on. If he wanted you to say “if you broke up with me, I’d kill myself!” that just proves again how immature he is. Life is full of hardship, and until you understand how important it is to roll with the punches of that, you are useless to anyone wanting a deep relationship.

I’m going to be real with you (we have our different styles but you will find that this is the MO of the coaches on here), I think that you dodged a bullet. You only knew this man for a few short months. The quickness with which you were willing to dedicate your lives to each other is a bit of a red flag. It takes time to get to know someone, and if he’s telling you that he loves you within such a short time, it’s not really you that he loves. It’s only the idea of you that he loves, based on a fantasy of who you are. So that’s why when you’ve said things that are more in line with who you actually are instead of his fantasy, he freaks out and gets upset. He has an idea in his mind and you’re ruining it!

But here’s the thing. It sounds like you also have a fantasy of him in your mind because you say I’d like to get who he once was back, but that person is also not a reality. That’s your idea of him based on a few months of interaction when he was trying to impress you. When the going gets tough, the real person comes out, and that real person is a coward who can’t even have the basic level of adult decency to have a conversation.

So can it be salvaged? Please god no. What’s there to salvage? The fantasy? No girl. Keep his number blocked and lets get you ready for new adventures.

You sound like an awesome chick!! Don’t waste your breath chasing after someone who is not treating you how you deserve to be treated, how you want to be treated, and how you would treat others.

You got this, and we are here for you!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hey Becky!

Just checking in on you to see what’s happening these days!

Keep us in the loop 😉
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Michele,

Thanks for telling me more! Yes, that does tend to be the way that modern love works…everyone wants to be “chill” and let things just happen, which is fine but it’s not at all rare to catch feelings once you start spending time with someone and things are going well.

Sounds like you’re a wonderful young woman who had a lot going for her, a myriad of plans, and you know that you’re a catch. I am fully in support of you being 100% above board about what you want and letting the chips fall where they may if you are willing to do so.

Ok he’s busy, and we all are. I’m sure you are pretty busy yourself. But we all know how to make time for things that we want, so the real question is, what do each of you want?

If you want an exclusive situation, that’s totally fine. To be fair, the busier you are, the more I think exclusivity makes sense, because then you don’t have to be out there swiping on apps and going on dates with random people. If you’ve found something that works, why not just relax into it and see where it goes?
You are still organically letting nature take its course, you are just getting on the same page so that you’re not wasting each other’s time when you have so little of it free.
So that’s one angle.

Whatever position you take here, it’s important for you to know what you want and be able to ask for it. The truth is, you deserve to have what you want. And if the other person doesn’t want the same thing, then it’s just not a match. In terms of your concern about coming off needy or scaring him away, that is more on him so not something that you can really control.

I’d say something like what I am indicating above.

“I’ve really been enjoying getting to know you and I appreciate the easy fun times that we have together. I know that you’re really busy and I am too, so I want to make sure that we are both using our time wisely. I don’t want to keep wasting time on dating apps and going out with other people because I don’t have time for that and I’m enjoying what we have. It would work better for me to just focus on one person and that one person could be you. So I want to get a sense of how you’re feeling about this.”

Good place to start and see what he says. He might get scared off, but if that does happen, isn’t it better that you know as soon as possible before you get even more invested in him?

Many times women want to use a tactic I call “The Sleeping Bear”. If the bear is sleeping, you don’t want to disturb him and wake him up. Just enjoy the fact that the bear is there but be very very quiet at all times.
This is not healthy or sustainable, and most women who are with men where there is no clarity, eventually wind up getting dumped anyway, or being in a pseudo relationships for way too long with a man who won’t ever commit.

I see women in their 40s and 50s dealing with this. You are young, and the world is your oyster. If this guy doesn’t want to step up to the plate, you will find someone who will.

Let me know how it goes!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Great minds think alike!! Heidi, please see above.
We’ve been talking all about this and Fung has been narrowing down her non-negotiables.

It’s true that most ex-pats (and I know being that I have many friends who are from the US like I am living in other countries) are not looking for long term relationships with people that they meet in other places, especially if they are not planning to necessarily be there long term.

There are those who do go there looking for a wife, but I would be wary of those kinds of men. Often it seems that those are the men who are not doing well with their relationships here because they have antiquated ideas about relationships that American women won’t tolerate. But then they go to a country where the relationship ideals are still part of an older paradigm, and so they find women there who will be with them under that more patriarchal design. But they do then pay for everything and bring the woman with them to the US, so if that’s what you’re looking for, you probably can find that easily. But that’s not love as much as it’s an arrangement.

From what I know of you, you’re looking for love and connection and so, like we’ve been discussing and now Heidi has chimed in as well, dating based on the specifics of what you want is a great way to go.
I fully support you getting out there and spending time with the people in the “real life” groups, as that will more organically result in connection.

In terms of Guy B, if you’re not feeling him, then let him go. But I do want to point out something that I’ve observed about you and please correct me if I’m wrong. But I found it interesting that you were the most interested in the 2 guys who had recently ghosted you, and then you have little interest in this guy B who is showing up and wanting to be with you. I understand that there are other things about him that make the connection less interesting, but that might just be something to examine a bit.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi there,

So my opinion on “cheating” is varied. First off, there are many relationship styles out there, and I think it’s important for everyone to have a relationship style that works for them. For example, there are some people that are perfectly happy being in a committed relationship with someone and having a lover and/or other committed partners. Some people are ok with sexual activities with others, but not emotional activities.
Our society boxes us into a mindset that what’s “normal and right” is only one man and one woman, but as a relationship coach, I believe that the style of relationship is just something that should be agreed upon by the parties involved in said relationship. Nothing is wrong between consenting adults, as long as it’s agreed upon.

That being said, the reason why I would call your situation cheating is because it’s not out in the open. You are unhappy and unfulfilled with your boyfriend, but you are continuing to be with him anyway and sneak out behind his back. I understand that you don’t want to hurt him, but wouldn’t it hurt him more if he knew that you didn’t feel that way about him and were going out with others when he wasn’t paying attention?

The truth is that you don’t owe anybody anything when it comes to your time, your attention, your body, and your sexuality. There’s no reason why you should be forcing yourself to be in a sexual or romantic relationship with someone just because they want you to, or because you feel like they are such a nice person who would do anything for you. The more relationships that you have in life, the more that you will learn that these are the basics that you look for in a relationship. And if someone doesn’t have it, you move on. But that’s only one part, the basics like I said. There is so much more that goes into a relationship, and it doesn’t sound like you have those things with your boyfriend.

I also agree with your mother in that you are very young. You have your whole life ahead of you and you need to start learning to do things on your own terms, because you want to, not because they will make someone else happy. The last thing you should do is marry or go deeper with someone that you aren’t even into, without giving yourself the opportunity to explore and find out who you are. There is whole world out there waiting for you that you’re allowing yourself to miss out. And you’re not doing him any favors either.
You need to be able to say, “I Love you like a brother, and that’s what this relationship is”.
Do you think that you could do that?

When it comes to Brian, please remember to not put stock in anything that he says. He says what he wants to get the desired outcome, not for any other reason. He said what he said originally to get laid. he said what he said after to get you to leave. He’s doing what he’s doing now to make things easy at work. I know you’ve been hurt by some of the things he’s said and that sucks, but please just try and let things go with him. There was never an opportunity there for a deeper relationship so you have to just chalk it up to some fun sex and go back to being his friend. It’s either that or keep obsessing about it and be unhappy at work. Your choice!

Just one more thing that I want you to know: You are NOT a loser! You are a kind and caring person who is doing what they can to make people happy and to make people love you. That’s natural and human. You are doing your best. But what you need to do is think more about what will really make you happy because YOU are the only one responsible for that, just as other people are the ones responsible for their own emotions as well.

Let us know how you feel about this…
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Yes girl, take a break! It sounds like you’re running around really trying to find this guy and wearing yourself out in the process. None of that can be good for you!

With all of the guys that you are involved with currently, it sounds like there is at least one dealbreaker that is large enough to make it evident that it’s not a real match.

For example, Guy B sounds like a nice guy, basically the nicest one so far, but having such disparate views on religion and sexual expression, (and essentially the basic ideals of what’s important in a relationship) will certainly keep coming up and drive a wedge between you, and/or make it difficult to ever truly get close. It sounds like you are already deciding this, as you weren’t interested in seeing him on Sunday and you are contemplating ending it with him. I assume that these incompatibilities are the reason?

When you are with the right person, you can tell. They just feel like your person. You don’t have to try so hard to fit them into a criteria that you have, trade one trait for another, or maneuver your non-negotiables around to fit them in. Of course everything in life comes with some compromise, but when it comes to spending every day of your life with someone, there are things that it makes no sense to compromise on. Because if and when you do, you are just miserable and that’s not good for anyone.

I know that it feels frustrating and like there is no one out there who truly is what you’re looking for, and I doubt that’s true. He may just not be on dating sites looking to meet someone. Sometimes the best way to meet someone is to just be living your life, doing what you love, and you naturally meet someone in the course of your day. Then you connect over something else, and before you know it, you really like spending time with this person, and it develops organically into something deeper.

But if you’re not feeling like you have patience for that route and you want to continue with online dating, I would be more conscious about who you are going on dates with, and really explore their profile more. On dating sites there are typically 2 kinds of people. People looking for actual relationships and then people who are just lonely and trying to get laid.

I’m not sure exactly where you live, but it sounds like a place where a lot of foreigners come to, and so there are many people who are far from their known environments and are lonely. So they are willing to spend time with a beautiful woman even if they know that it’s not going anywhere because they themselves aren’t really looking for something long term. So figuring out early on what the men that you’re meeting are really looking for will be key in determining if you even want to waste any time with them.

Let us know how it’s going!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Michelle,

Just wanted to check back in and see how things are going with you and your online person. Have you had any more clarity?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Michele,

Welcome to the forum, and I’m so happy that you reached out! You sound like a really grounded, strong, and wonderful person. You also seem caring, and very self aware, the kind of woman that any man would be lucky to have in his life.

It’s always difficult at the beginning of relationships before boundaries are established, because it can feel so tenuous and unclear. I understand that many people want to go into relationships with no expectations and being open to whatever may happen, but I always feel like it’s important to know from the beginning what you want, and even to express it early on so that way you are not wasting time with someone who does not have the same goals as you do. Because yes, that’s where people wind up getting hurt and feeling bad, when there is a mismatch of desires and expected outcomes. But if no one expresses what that is, no one will know!
So I applaud you for wanting to have that conversation with him early on, before getting too attached and emotionally involved.

I’m curious if you have had any discussions thus far about your desires and goals for relationships, and/or life in general? Has he mentioned dating anyone else at this time? Does it seem like it’s just slid into an exclusive thing without any clear communication about it?

I’m also wondering what you mean by “things shifted a little bit”. How did that play out? How is it different now than it was, and in what way?

The more details that we have about interactions between you and the person that you’re engaged with, the more we can understand your particular situation, and advise accordingly!

Looking forward to learning more!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

I understand the allure of the ‘what if’? That is so heady as it’s all based in fantasy, and potential, which is a helluva drug. And to be loved and pursued that intensely. That absolutely is a huge turn on! So I can imagine when you had that and it sounds like it was everything that you ever wanted it to be, and things that you didn’t even realize that you always wanted and needed, like healing that childhood wound of feeling unseen, it has been incredible! It feels like a comfortable dress that didn’t look like much on the hanger but now you want to wear everyday, and I can see how you could feel enticed to put up with some emotional snafus here and there at times. The rest of it is rather idyllic and endlessly romantic.

It sounds like he himself is actually having a trauma response, since you say that two of these incidents are directly related to fear of his mom dying, something he is morbidly afraid of. And when he is deep in that trauma and anxiety, he just can’t pull himself out of it in order to communicate with you. It’s not you, but you don’t deserve to be treated like that even if he is going through stuff, which is why you did what you did, and I’m proud of you.

But there’s something I’ve been thinking about…and not that it’s 100% right, but as we all know, life is so nuanced, and you have to just go for things sometimes. I also get the feeling that you’re like me, and at the end of the day, you are very well resourced emotionally. So while it did really hurt you how he’s been shutting you out, a part of you understands full well that it’s not you, and that he’s deeply hurting. And because you are emotionally mature and resourced, I’m betting that now that you got it out and he heard you, you are feeling less emotionally charged about it and more in a space like you want to see how he is, and would like to support him. And if you want to do that, I support you. Because I understand your journey with him, and how deeply you feel.

Now I am in no way saying that what he does when he’s stressed is ok or right, and I think you know that. I will forever bow down to BA Becky for the way that she stands up for herself, but I also understand that part of being BA Becky is having that deep well of strength within you that can enable you to give without it taking away from yourself. So I don’t fault you if you wanted to reach out to him and see if he is ok.

After reading through this last message and hearing more about what he’s currently going through, and the more I’ve learning about you guys and the intensity of your push/pull relationship, I can understand that there are some things that feel left undone, and that you feel bad for him.
You have a looooong history, and a deep and incredible love. Maybe it is worth fighting for…

Do you feel inclined to reach out to him? Do you have this well of empathy that I’m detecting or am I just projecting, lol? I trust that you will only do what you feel inclined to do, but I am wondering if this is coming up for you. And if it is, from one Secure/Anxious BA Gemini to another, I don’t think that you’d be wrong.

As long as you are able to do it a way that is still respecting yourself, I respect that. At the end of the day, you deserve to be treated well, and have your needs met. He needs to be able to step up to the plate if he wants to be with you. But it does seem like the man is going through something traumatic, so it wouldn’t be wrong to still hold your ground, but maybe see if he’s ok? Point out to him what you see about him. Tell him everything. At this point, you have nothing left to lose, right? I’d tell him everything that you have been telling us.
I mean, doesn’t he want to fight for you? He’s been loving you for over 30 years and now he’s finally got you. How could he want to let that go? I don’t think he does. I can’t see how he does. I’m confused as to why he said that he was thinking of ending things. That doesn’t make sense now that I know your history…

So yes, it’s an interesting conundrum. I’m very curious to see where you go with this, and endlessly supportive of your choices!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

It sounds like you are trying to fit these guys into the criteria that you set out, but it doesn’t sound like you really like any of them that much, they are just your best current options. I get that you’re actively looking for someone, but it’s not going to happen if you treat it like shopping. It really is the kind of thing that you just have to feel into. It’s good to go out on dates and meet as many people as you can, but you have to be able to see from early on if they have your non-negotiables, and then be able to not keep trying when you know that it’s not going to work.

Take Guy B for example. Now something doesn’t seem right with him. Maybe he just doesn’t like sex that much, or maybe he has another commitment somewhere else. Do you really know? Also he has religious hangups about sex and you have a high libido and a shamefree attitude. You don’t want to be dealing with his guilt, that’s a huge pain! You are not there to be his therapist.

D is out. He had bad communication skills and didn’t know how to step up to the plate. You can’t make someone want something or be someone that they are not.

E only has 3 of your 5 non-negotiables. That’s not nearly enough. A and C more information is needed.

It’s interesting to see that the guys who you are most interested in are 1) the ones you’ve had the best sex with, and 2) all men who have run away.
So that being said, they really are not the right guys. Because in reality, they did not meet the first criteria, which was to be mature. Now to be fair, I don’t know if you meant mature emotionally, or more someone who has a good job and is determined to always have money. Because here’s the thing…there are many men with lots of money, who are still big babies, and don’t know how to treat a woman well and have a real relationship.

So, as much as I’m happy with the fact that you made the list, I also would like for you to try and think of some more emotionally based things that you want and require in order to commit to someone.
Yes, it’s good for someone to be financially solvent (more clear way to say it), and I understand that you want him to be generous to you. Because what’s the point if he has money but won’t spend it, right?

It’s also important to have common interests, great chemistry, and feels the same way about your childfree lifestyle.
I also really like your 6-10 and I think that much of that is important. Realistically, there’s so much that goes into a relationship and I feel like how the man communicates and how he treats you are the biggest ones.

So that’s why I don’t like D and E, because they were bad at communicating. And that makes them immature, which is one of the BIGGEST non-negotiables for me. If a man is emotionally immature, and doesn’t know how to communicate well, won’t learn, and treats me poorly because of it, I am out the door.

You asked, What’s your advice? Forget all about them and find one who fits all my criteria? Or accept some of my non-negotaibles to be negotiables?

I vote for the first answer. None of these guys have what you want. And in terms of your criteria, I don’t think that you have enough! So maybe think of a few more that are more emotionally based, and try to get to know more men, and the men that you do meet, in a deeper way.

For example, asking them about their past relationships is always a good way to get to know more about someone. If they haven’t had many relationships, or they hate all their exes, that’s something to watch out for.

Let’s see what they have to say!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Faith,

First off, I just want to let you know that you have absolutely NOTHING to be embarrassed by! I am so so sorry that you were treated that way. His bad behaviour is no reflection on you and is not your fault in anyway.

But it sounds like the pattern for you is that pursue (like the current situation) or you stay with (the past situation) these guys who don’t deserve you are aren’t even up to your standards. Super basic guys but the sex keeps you there. Now I understand how intense chemistry can feel really alluring, but if you want something more, you need to look past that to who this person truly is.

what is their lifestyle like? what are they doing in life? Where are they going? How about their other relationships? Do they have a bunch of broken hearts behind them? Do they tell you that all of their exes are “crazy”? That is a huge red flag to pay attention to. Because if he talks sh*t about all of his exes, that’s a surefire sign that he is a bad boyfriend who attracts and creates drama.

I don’t think in that particular situation that you describe above that he stopped liking you and then just started again. It’s more that he’s a jerk who wanted to bail when things were tough, and then figured he’d go back to you when things were in a better place. Yes, immature and awful scrubs do this. Real men, do not.

But what I want to know is, what exactly is the scar that you have from this? Is it that all men suck? Or that if a guy tells you it’s over, it’s not really over because he will come back around? I’m hoping it’s the former but I’m afraid it’s the latter.

Please tell me more so we can figure out how best to help you move through this!

xoxo

[Coach Spyce]

That’s a great list! It’s good to know what you need, what you want, what you won’t tolerate, and what you will. I think the difficulties come in at times when you’re trying to determine if the guy that you’re dating has all of these things. Have you figured out a way to determine that sooner than later?

it sounds like you’re free with your sexuality, which I admire and respect. I do wonder though if messing around with different guys that you know are not right for you may be taking time and energy away from you finding what you truly want? I mean, if all that you wanted was to have fun and “get laid”, then I’d say go for it! But if you are truly looking for a committed and monogamous relationship (which no judgement if you’re not), all of this dating may be taking you away from that task. Certainly having fun while you’re looking for someone is good, but it can leave you more content and not as motivated to truly get what you want. Just something to think about.

So do any of these guys fit your non-negotiables?

[Author]

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