[Coach Spyce]

Hm, I can see how all of this is really helping you to determine what you want and need in a relationship, and who knows? Maybe that’s what this whole relationship was with Joey. A chance for you to get super clear on what you’re willing to put up with. In my mind, while of course everything in life has some compromise, there shouldn’t be too much that you have to “tolerate” or deal with, in a committed, long term, loving and healthy relationship, right?

Like you said, too old for that, and too wise. And if the man that you’re with ISN’T down with that, and hasn’t done the work…well then he’s just not the man for you, is he?

All of this speculation about his thoughts, while interesting to hear about, don’t really matter at the end of the day, and we both know that. The proof is in the pudding, in his actions, and whether he feels bad or mad or hurt, doesn’t really matter because the end result is the same. In the end, he is acting immature, uncommunicative, and not with integrity. In the end, if he can’t use his words to let you know how he’s feeling, what can you actually do differently? Nothing. All you can do is take care of yourself, which you did. If he won’t take care of himself, there’s not much that you can do.

So I think it’s great that you are being so fiercely strong about this, rational and diplomatic. With that kind of attitude, I don’t worry about you.

And now for our segment entitled, “Deep Thoughts from an Avoidant”, I’ll introduce the esteemed Coach Heidi! Lol!

You know my thoughts on it, so let’s see what she has to say 🙂

[Coach Spyce]

Yes, that’s what I’m saying! It’s not ironic that crying with B brought you closer, it’s actually very normal. Which is why I say that being open with people will help bring you more intimacy, and therefore more clarity as to if you want to be closer with this person or not. Not that you have to go airing out all of your “dirty laundry” to everyone you meet or have a slight interest in, but it would be good to find a story that you can tell that is maybe intimate, but isn’t your biggest secret or anything. You could use this story as a tool to see how the person reacts, and make decisions from there.

Because yes, if you tell someone something deep about yourself or your past, how they respond could very clearly indicate to you what kind of person they are, and whether or not you want to move forward with getting to know them in a deeper way. People do show their true colors if you pay attention, and paying that attention is going to help you get even that much more astute with being able to recognize the red flags and the non-negotiable deal-breakers that much sooner.

Because I do think that these experiences you’ve had have helped you to clarify what you want and what you don’t want. After seeing your list of non-negotiables, I think that you’ve learned a lot from the relationships you’ve been in and are in a good space to move forward!

Now you can use these tools when moving forward to speed up the process, so you can know sooner whether or not you want to be involved.

I look forward to hearing about who you are meeting now and what you are learning about how to vet these men!
xoxo
Spyce

• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by Coach Spyce.

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Myo,

Welcome to the forum! We are happy to have you here with us and we promise to help you navigate the tricky world of dating and relationships. It sounds like you are having fun, and that you’ve found a live one! Congrats! Now all you have to do is figure out what he wants and needs, all with just your mind…

Haha, I’m just kidding and I actually feel the exact opposite…See, you might have to step out of your comfort zone a bit because I personally believe that the easiest way to get clear on what someone wants is is trying to say, is to ask them, especially when you don’t know them well!

Your “interpretation” of them is just that. You are putting what they are doing thru your lense and then deciding what they mean by it. How do you know that you’re right? Or how would you know if you were wrong? Thing is, you can’t. So without clear communication, it’s all just speculation.
While I would never suggest you do anything you’re uncomfortable with, I would encourage you to be a bit more inquisitive with this guy. It sounds like he likes you a lot, and would be open to it!

To be fair, many people, (and especially someone who pulls your chair in close and gazes into your eyes) see being upfront as a sign of strength and openness. It endear someone to you, because you are brave and willing to put yourself out there.

So my suggestion would be to tell him what you feel. If you want him to suggest a plan and then do it, week after week, just let him know. I’m sure he is probably just trying to do what he can to make you happy. So the more you can make it easier on him by telling you what you want, the more smoothly the whole situation will go. The less the situation is left up to interpretation, and genuinely based on what the people in the situation are wanting, the more more fun you will be having!

Let us know what you think!

[Coach Spyce]

Hey lady,

Hope you’ve had a good weekend! Sounds like it’s been intense for sure…but isn’t that life?

You don’t have to go over any details but I just want to say that I do hope that you can get everything sorted with your ex sooner than later. Closing the book on that, not having to have that yoke around your neck anymore, being able to be unwound from that situation is going to be amazing. New house, new freedom, new life!

In terms of what you’re describing in your emotional life at this moment, it all sounds about right. Ups and down, the rollercoaster of the heart. It’s so good that you’ve been able to allow yourself to feel it all. The sadness of not being able to make this thing work right now, the push and the pull of the back and forth for oh so many years, and the bittersweet gratitude from ever having it at all. And girl, Firefly Lane got me all weepy too!

I wonder if he’s hurt. Do you think that could be the case? Could he be thinking something along the lines of, “she knows what I’m going thru and how difficult it is for me with my mom and all of this, why does she need anything from me right now. Why can’t she just let me have my freak out, and not cut me out because of it?”
I can see how an avoidant and sensitive guy like Joey could feel this, but you still (you know I will never waver from this) did not deserve to be trated like that. Cettainly not without him warning you and assuring you that his avoidance had nothing to do with you, and he was sorry for how he was treating you. But he wasn’t able to be that emotionally mature, and that’s why I will always support you doing what you did. But in terms of what he was thinking, I wonder… Do you think he could have felt just that unsupported by you and maybe actually angry too because of that?

Or is more of the “she’s better off without me and I can’t give her what she needs/deserves, so I’m just not gonna fight it and let it go”.

The latter seems weird given what you’ve told me of your courtship…
So I guess that’s why I’m curious about the former. I’m sure someday we will find out.

In the meantime, go on with your bad self and those sexy dreams of this new hot guy! Good for you! I mean, Mae West said it best, “the best way to get over one man is to get under another’, and while it’s certainly tongue in cheek with what I really think, it’s still fun to dream about it 😉

And like you said, even if it’s not something you act on anytime soon, it’s good to know that you have options, and it’s always fun to flirt with an attractive man. Why the heck not?!

As you said, each day brings something new, and the fun part is that you never know what that’s going to be! Always hoping for the best outcome for all involved. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was your intention too!

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

It sounds like you’ve been afraid to be vulnerable with the men who were the most interested because, as you said, then you would have to be open with them about things that happened in your past. Are these things that you’ve done, or is more about things that happened with family as a child?
I hope that you know that if there are things that happened to you, as a child and/or as a woman, there is never anything to be ashamed of.

It also sounds like there’s a fear of rejection. So you reject them first before they learn what a “monster” you are. Which is utterly ridiculous because I can tell that you’re a wonderfully fun and nice person to have around. Why wouldn’t they want to be with you? Like the guy with the love letter…why wouldn’t it be a love letter?

I think that there are ways to be open and honest without having to talk about things that you don’t feel comfortable with, and to do it in a timeframe that feels right to you. I think trying this might make you feel a little more relaxed and less like you’re trying to impress ihm, andmore like he’s trying to impress you. So, what I find is a good way to take a step back from sharing but still be creating intimacy is to ask questions of the guy, and then to really listen. Make it all about him. That makes him open up to you first, and you can learn more about him to determine if he is someone that you WANT to open up to. And does he deserve it…because not everyone does or will. Obviously you believe this because you haven’t really let anyone in, or have you?

Out of those 4 committed relationships, were any of them love? Did you feel like it was “right” with any of them? And what made it so or not?

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Wendy,

I’m sorry that you’re going through this painful experience. I do want to commend you though on having the strength to end it gracefully and with your pride intact. You did a strong and brave thing and I’m so glad that you were able to have the opportunity to get out what you were feeling. Even if he doesn’t respond, which he probably won’t since he’s in the wrong, at lease you could say your peace, and move on knowing that you did the right thing.

I also want to remind you that this is not a reflection of you. He did not communicate well, and that’s on him. It also speaks of him as a person and shows a lack of maturity that you don’t want to have in a committed relationship. So all in all, you will be better off without him, even though I know it hurts.

But it sounds like you are not lacking for suitors so at least you know there are other options out there. I would recommend pausing though before exploring other options. As mentioned, you don’t want to jump into something because you are hurting and want to fill the void. Not only is that not fair to him, it’s not fair to you either. You deserve to be with someone that you are ecstatic about, not just settling for. And when do you settle for someone out of loneliness, you are actually filling up that space where the perfect guy would go and there is no room for him. So that would not be a good plan.

Also, you should give yourself space to figure out exactly what you do want, and then focus on finding that. If it turns out the new man that you know fits into it, ok. But it sounds like he doesn’t or you wouldn’t be having reservations about your feelings towards him.

So give it some time, give yourself some time. Do something nice for yourself, something that you haven’t done in a while, and revel in being independent, and not having anyone to answer to or worry about.

Let us know how it goes!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Wow, I totally know what you mean about being in survival mode, and with kids too! Being with an alcoholic, and especially one who is already unhinged, abusive, violent, volatile, etc. I mean, alcohol can bring out the worst in anyone, and boy is it terrifying when the worst is so close to the surface.

The birch tree is a very poetic and bittersweet way to think of it and it seriously does apply to so many supposedly love relationships. Our ideas about love are so screwy that people think that hurting the one that you love is what you’re supposed to do, and that it’s somehow ok. Not ok in my book!

I’m so glad that you were able to stay alive during all those years of terror with him and while it’s great to hear that eventually he got sober, but it sounds like it didn’t change him from being a real piece of work. But at least it made it safe enough for you to start making the changes necessary to be able to have another life, and get out from under that mess.
Kudos again and again! You know you’re permanently cemented in my head as Bad Ass Becky, right? I hope that you see that as the compliment that it is!

It’s good to know that you are moving to a safe situation and that the ex won’t know where that is. I wasn’t aware that with a restraining order you could have a hold of your ex spouse’s guns, but if that’s an option, go for it! But wouldn’t it be better to just not be involved with him at all? That would be my inclination….

I hope you have a wonderful weekend and you keep on feeling strong and empowered. You are at a really great place in life, and don’t you forget it!

Always rooting for you,
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Jennifer,

I’m so sorry to hear that you have had many hurtful experiences in the past when it comes to love and connection. I know how hard it can be when a father is absent (my dad left when I was five as well) and it really can reverberate throughout many of life’s experiences after when it comes to our connection with men. I know that rejection of any form feels awful, and I’m sorry that you were in those situations. I really hope that you were able to be heard and supported with your assault experience as well.

So much also comes into play in those formative years when a parent leaves with the relationship that the child has with the parent that’s still there, and how they experience that parent. So I’m wondering how your mother dealt with your dad leaving? You say that you were very co-dependant. Is that something that you learned from her? Was she always looking for a man to keep her going? Did you see a series of different men come through your life, giving you the idea that it was ok to suffer, as long as there was a man around?

All of this feeds into later relationships in life and what you will and will not tolerate in your relationships, even from the beginnings of them. How we get into relationships is really some of the most important part of relationships as it informs so much of the connection and how healthy it is, but it’s not something that people really pay enough attention to. But thinking about that can give you insight into how some of your relationships ended. If you knew from the beginning and chose to go into it anyway, that could give information as to where your patterns in love lie.

Like Heidi said, you don’t have to make any sudden movements now. You have something sweet that is making you feel good, and we don’t want to take that away from you. But we do want you to get to a place where you can feel good within yourself and a) don’t feel this intense anxiety around losing someone dear to you, and b) feel stable within yourself that even if a relationship does change, it doesn’t have the power to break you.
You need to become confident in your resiliency, and then you may feel resourced to be in a relationship where you don’t have that level of certainty, and you can enjoy it and live in the moment.
Or maybe at that point you would find someone who is also in that clear place and you could have a solid and stable relationship with, someone who is really ready for it.

But for now, it’s a good idea to take it slow. Feel into the anxiety. Look into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. If you’re open to something more woo I always like to suggest meditations, inner child work, creative visualisations or things of that sort.

Let us know what you’re discovering, and we will help you work through it!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

I have to tell you, you have to stop focusing on controlling what others do, and focus on the only person that you can control, and that’s you!
You want him to be nice to you, you want him to leave you alone, you want him to text you back, you want him to never talk to you again. I understand it’s all confusing. You had some great times with him and then he fed you lines of BS and now you have to se him everyday. I get that it hurts and so right now you just want him to be off your radar so you don’t have to keep thinking about him. I get that and it makes sense.

But you work with him, you have to see him everyday that you work. So unless you want to get a new job, you’re going to have to deal with your emotions around this and realize that you can’t change him and you can’t control him.

You did enjoy the guy, you liked him. You still like him, and him ignoring you is not going to change that. Him ignoring you just makes you sad that he’s not paying attention to you. Him not ignoring you makes you sad that he doesn’t like you. It’s a vicious cycle and you have to be able to truly understand within yourself why this dynamic isn’t good for you. Until then, Heidi and I can talk until we are blue in the face and nothing will change. Because you’re still trying to change everyone else’s behaviour but yourself.

It all comes back to self esteem, and you not feeling good about yourself. Why do you feel like you’re unworthy of love? You mentioned the one guy who broke up with you in the hospital (that you were still willing to tak back) but I’m sure it goes deeper than that. We have to get to the core of this as this is the real issue that you are dealing with.

Here for support,
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

I have to agree with Heidi…I was like, “if this is drunk Becky…” 🙂
You sounded pretty clear to me too! It’s good to know that you have a lot of support from people who love you, and that you hacve a nice community of friends around who care. UYou will be good either way, gf!

In terms of your ex…wow, that’s scary stuff! I’m so sorry to hear that you have to live with that fear, and tailor your life to what he might do, even now that you’ve split. Do you think eventually he might get over his obsession with you and move on? I’m not sure if you told us the details of how you split, (although I definitely have gotten an idea of the why!) but I’m assuming he was not happy about it?

I am glad that many people know about his tendencies at least, but it still is dicey. Have you ever thought about getting a restraining order?

Also curious how he reacted to you being with Joey…I know you said that neither of them liked the other, but of course he’s known the presence that Joey has had in your life all this time, so how did things go when he found that you were dating these last few years? Or did he not know?

The plot thickens…

Seriously though, I just want you to be safe. The situation with your ex is a bit troubling to hear about…

[Coach Spyce]

Vicky,

I’m so glad to hear that my response was helpful! It was just so clear to me that you were dealing with someone who did not have the capacity to be in a relationship, and it would only further hurt you to keep trying.
Good for you for being able to take that advice so gracefully and further kudos for doing the strong and powerful thing of letting this person go! I’m glad that my style worked for you, as I do beleive that it saves vauluavbe time to cut to the chase 🙂

In terms of doing that inner work, what do you plan to start on first? Are there any particular triggers that you’ve identified in yourself that could use a deeper look?
I always find that examining how we get into relationships is helpful, especially when we are single. After all, the next thing that you will be doing relationship wise will be getting into one, so being super clear on the ins and outs of that is essential. We’ve all been fed this idea that “when you know, you know”, and that you’re supposed to just “have no expectations and let it happen”. I don’t really feel like that’s the best idea…because once you’re in it, you get swept up by the emotions of it all and it’s difficult to be clear and solid if you’re not there already. When you know what you want, you also don’t have to waste your time getting into a relationship that will end up not working. You can see that mess from a mile away!

That’s why now you have an opportune moment to really figure things out so that you don’t get swept away when someone intriguing shows up.

So…what do you think will be a good place for you to start?

xoxo
Spyce

• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by Coach Spyce.

[Coach Spyce]

That’s good to hear that you don;’t blame yourself now for those ghosters. to me that kind of behavrious shows that they are not a match in your #1 way! Because if they don’t even ahve the emotional maturity to let you know how they are feeling and can’t even communicate in the most basic of ways, it is clear then that they are not worth your time. So when someone does something as immature as ghost me, I know that they have done me a favor and saved me the work of having to end it!

I’m curious to heart more about this the ones who I am really interested in could not be with me.
How did that play out? Why didn’t it work?

It sounds like you’re in a nice location as there is lots of movement and potential to meet interesting people from all over. That should definitely work in your favor!

My main recommendation would be to join some activity groups of things that you like. You are a very friendly person from what I can gather, you have a good hold on the English language, (which I assume is most common outside of your native tongue) and I’m sure that you are fun to be with. When you are doing activities with someone you can bond in a way outside of the possibility of a relationship, and it allows people to just be themselves and not have the pressure of connection.

That’s one of the reasons I’d recommend activity groups over bars. Bars are known to be where you go when you just want to pick up someone for sex. It’s definitely not where you would go to find a relationship. If that’s where you primarily have been meeting men, it’s no wonder that you’re not finding good men!

All of us relationship coaches tell our clients to go to activity groups, because it works! Like I said, without the dynamic of the hook up, things are much more chill. And who knows, maybe at these groups you will find some men there who have been doing this work too!

Let me know what you find!

[Coach Spyce]

Hey Jennifer,

I totally understand your confusion and yes, it does suck. Timing being off in an otherwise really awesome situation is always a real sorrowful situation.
Love itself is full of nuanced experiences, and is always a balance of risk and reward. So the best thing that tuo can do in this is to examine that balance and decide, how much are you willing to risk and for what reward?

I understand what Heidi is saying that he is not going to change anytime soon, and that he doesn’t want what you want right now. And I understand you saying that YOU don’t know what you want either, and that’s ok. Life is a series of unexpected experiences as part of the greater journey, and oftentimes you do have to just keep going on the path in order to see where it leads you. This is where the risk comes in.

The reward of course, is the bliss, the connection, the intimacy, the incredible feeling of being seen, and wanted. There’s a lot in that reward, and many risk much or all to have it. So what are you willing to risk?

I do think that it’s highly likely that he will not be ready for a relationship for awhile, but regardless of whether he’s ready next week or never, the point is that you need to not be waiting on that. You can’t be hanging on helplessly hoping for him to decide that he is ready, because you could be waiting the rest of your life. Or you could wind up being the one who was always there, and helps him through it, but that may not as pretty of a process as it sounds.

But far be it from me to keep someone away from the reward of love, so if you want, you can go into this knowing that you are developing feelings, and that you are going to be hurt when he starts to pull away because he’s going through his own thing and he’s starting to have feelings for you too and he’s scared, BUT JUST KNOW…you are setting yourself up for that pain.

I mean, neither Heidi nor I are mind readers (although we certainly are intuitive), but we’ve both been around the block enough to see how this most likely will play out. So I’m sorry but I have to agree.

If you’re ok with this being casual, and just enjoying what it for however long this may be, then go for it.
If you’re not sure that you want a deep relationship either and maybe having a great time with someone you really like is good for you, go for it. Life is short and sometimes we take the goodness where we can get it, and don’t worry about the future. If that’s where you’re at, I applaud and support that, but it sounds like you’re unsure.
So I just want you to be clear that if you continue with this connection, that you are doing so with the understanding and deep knowing of the pitfalls and the risk, so you can be prepared if what seems inevitable comes down the pike.

Let us know if that helps clarify anything…
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

You gave got your head on your shoulders and that’s great! You don’t need a man, but you want the right connection with someone that will allow you both to live your best lives. I want that for you too! You seem like a really fun person who is a great partner and the guy who is going to get you will be lucky.

I think you’re doing a great job of narrowing down your desires and needs in a relationship, and getting really clear on your non-negotiables. This is only going to help as you meet people. Yes it can be a numbers game, but I also do believe that when you are ready for the right one, you can meet in line at a grocery store or anywhere!

Hopefully things are opening up a bit more where you are to at least outdoor activities, and you will have more opportunities to meet people that you share common interests with.

Ad far as the relationship with foreign men, I would say that I primarily know of the dynamic with American men, and I’m not sure about those who are European. We in the US always see Europeans as more open minded, so my inclination would be to primarily stay away from Americans! But that just might be my bias speaking, lol! You seem to have had interactions with men from all over the place, so you may have a handle on how country of origin affects their values around relationships.

The reason that I mention looking at those guys who ghosted, is that sometimes we can have a pattern of being more interested in those who aren’t interested in us. It’s like we have to prove to ourselves that that we are good and wanted, and why DON’T they want me? What did I do wrong? What can I do better? Can I let them know somehow that they were wrong in not choosing me?
I don’t know for certain that you are someone who goes down that road, but if you were, it would be something to explore deeper.

Keep us posted!
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

I have to say that I agree with Heidi here. Yes, we know that this guy is a douche of sorts, but you keep saying that you want to be friends with him, or at least try to be civil at work. Now that he’s doing that, you’re getting mad at him. It sounds like you want him to throw you down and profess his love for you, and anything else is subpar. I’m sorry but I don’t think that’s going to happen…

Yes maybe he was older and should have known better. He should have been more open with you from the beginning, but maybe since you have a boyfriend he figured that for you it was just a casual sex experience for you too. There are many reasons why he probably never thought of it as serious. But you have to work with the guy AND you have a boyfriend. There are many determining factors here.
So that being said, what do you want from him? And is it realistic?

There is also no real reason to focus on Brian, as he is just a symptom of the real situation. It all goes back with you wanting to feel loved and not having the self esteem to know that you are worthy. And that’s why you are with a guy who worships you, but you don’t really like and you won’t break up with him. You are afraid that no one else will want you, and that’s the issue that you have to work on. That’s the belief that you need to change. You have to start seeing yourself as a good person and not a loser. You have to start being true to yourself, and not doing things just to make people happy. Because it comes out of the other side, and then you’re off doing things that could really hurt people and are making you feel bad about yourself.

We just want you to feel good, and be kind to yourself, and care about yourself in a deeper way.
I would love to hear what comes up for you when you hear all of this, and how doable it feels to you.

xoxo
Spyce

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