[Coach Spyce]

Hi Crystal,

Just wanted to check in and see how things are going. Did you send him the letter? What’s been happening?

I am really hoping that you got a good response!

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Louise,

Thanks for reaching out! We need more context than that in order to help you figure out your next steps.

How long were you together? How long have you been apart? What were the circumstances of the breakup?

That’s for starters!

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Stef,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your story! I’m so sorry to hear that you’re going through this painful situation. Hearing these words from someone that you feel love for and have committed yourself in partnership too is so hurtful. I understand that you feel like oyu want to figure out the exact right thing to make him see things differently and to change the situation.

But my first question is this, what would you be changing the situation back to? You’ve been together for 1.5 years but it sounds like he’s been feeling this way for the majority of your relationship.

I get a very strong feeling that there is A LOT that he is not telling you. Nothing adds up here. He loves you deeply but is extremely unhappy being with you. He is not attracted, annoyed, and doesn’t want to be with you but he is heartbroken about not being with you. Do you see how this doesn’t make sense?

He has a boat load of trauma and obviously has a hard time being clear about his feelings. A healthy person would just say, “I’m sorry but I don’t want to be with you” for whatever reasons there were. I’m not into you, I’m not attracted to you, I don’t want to be in a relationship, I’m not ready, etc, etc. And then they would let the chips fall where they may.

To be honest, I’m confused. If he’s been telling you this for a year now, why are you still holding on? Does he flip flop back and forth? How do you react when he tells you these things?

He is not being honest with you and you are not being honest with yourself. You said: We were each other’s dream partner. We have so much in common and were so madly in love the first couple months.

How are you each other’s dream partner? What is it that you have in common? Being madly in love the first couple months is common for people who don’t really know each other. And then you get to know someone and you may realize that this person is not who you thought they were, and not who you want to be with.

It’s just a good situation for you to be so hell bent on being with someone who is telling you no over and over again. I have not heard him saying yes to anything. Do you really think this is someone that you should pursue? If so, why?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Shaye,

So what I’m getting from this situation is that it’s a classic case of…”if they wanted to, they would”. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this guy just sounds like he doesn’t really see you as a girlfriend material. None of his actions are showing that he is interested in pursuing anything more than a friendship with you. I know you feel like you did something wrong in breaking it off with him, but to me it sounds like that was a healthy thing that you did. And I think you were right. He was not going to love you in the way that you wanted to be loved. He wasn’t giving you the love and attention that you deserved.

You let him know that you were into him, and that you wanted to be with him. You waited around for him, for years, to make up his mind. But all the while you were making him a priority while you let yourself be an option.

I understand that it’s attractive to you that he is so into his kids. That’s a great thing. But you need to be with someone who is really into you as well.

Also, have you really sat down and talking with him about any of this? You said that you broke up with him via text, which is a very impersonal way of doing something like that. He may not have any idea what your feelings really are, if all you are doing is nonchalantly texting him all of these things. Text is never a good way to have an emotional conversation.

Thoughts?
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Jessi,

Thanks for the update and letting me know more about your life! It sounds like you are easily able to move through situations, picking up what works for you, and letting go of what doesn’t. That’s a great skill to have! However, it also sounds like you do get attached, and I am still concerned for you with your deep desire to be helpful, even to your own detriment.

Which when it comes to Guy 2, seems like that really is the case. You say there is a “spark” there, that there isn’t with Guy 1. What is that spark exactly? Is it based on the fact that he needs you, and you like to be needed? Is it based on the fact that his life ins a mess and he’s a project, someone that you can help? It sounds like there are many red flags in that situation, beyond you not sharing a religious outlook. But yet, you want to follow the spark.

Here’s the thing about attraction…sometimes we are attracted to what’s bad for us because it feeds us in another negative way. It feeds our trauma in an unhealthy way which feels comfortable and familiar, but really is not doing us any good in the long run. I used to teach classes on attraction, and it’s really important to look at what is underneath the attraction. Sure it can be based on looks, but it typically goes deeper than that. It can be based on a fantasy, an idea of who we think the person is, or can be in our lives. It can be trauma bonding. It’s important to determine what it is that we want to feel, or need to feel, in order to be complete in a relationship, and then be able to recognize the kind of person who can give that to us.

Thank you for sharing more about your relationship with your ex-husband. I actually know quite a lot about astrology and 2 Leos can be a tough match, depending on how the rest of your chart looks. One of the things about Leos is that they crave attention and want to be needed, but also they can be very loving and giving. It really depends too on how emotionally mature one is and what kind of personal development work you’ve done. I have Mars in Leo and sure I like to shine, but I also really love encouraging people to share the spotlight, or even step right in front of it when they’ve shied away before.

I’m sorry to hear that your husband has given up on your children. That’s really tough. How old are they now? Are they old enough to ask for a relationship with him? Do they? Does any of this play into your dating life? Do you feel like you want to find someone who can be a fatherly presence to your kids?

It sounds like he has not really done the work to look at himself and take responsibility for his role in the demise of your marriage or his responsibilities or interest as a parent. Maybe he is carrying a lot of resentment from his father’s death as you said, but to take that out on your own children is something that he will absolutely regret at some point, if he doesn’t already.

What kind of healing, if any, do you feel like you still need to do from this relationship? How are you dealing with him now?

It sounds like now in your dating life you are putting yourself out there and have the ability to meet many people. That’s a great thing, but it’s important to have this sense of yourself like I’m talking about. #3 I dont have much info to go on so not much to say. #4 sounds like another perfect project for you. To me, this is a pattern that you need to change if you ever are going to have a healthy relationship. Finding a man that doesn’t need you, but simply wants you, is what you have to start thinking about striving for…

Thoughts?
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Jessi,

Thanks for letting me know more about you and how you operate in the world. I understand what you are saying, and it sounds like you believe that you are doing something selfless and kind by helping out the less fortunate. As well and good as that may be, there are ways to do so that are not at your expense. I know you said that it makes you feel good when you can help, and I understand that desire. But you have to really look at if the help is really that or if it’s bringing harm with it as well.

Here’s the thing, getting involved in a romantic partnership with someone who does not have the bandwidth to be a partner is not really a healthy dynamic to perpetuate…for anyone. Even if you think that you’re “helping” them out, why a man want to be in a relationship with someone who is helping them? When a man is in that situation, it will never inspire him to step up to be a strong provider. Your Guy #2 sounds like he desperately NEEDS to be a strong provider, and he is not doing so, causing strife in his family. You are not helping him, you are enabling him, which in the end, is only really keeping him further down and not growing.

If you want projects, volunteer at a shelter or help people who are dying. Help animals, help children, help other women. But don’t help men by getting involved romantically with them. It’s not helpful, and it’s not healthy. For you or for them.

I also wonder if there might be other reasons why you are “attracted to needy people” as it’s common for people like you who are “helpers” to want to be close with people who need them because those people are much less likely to leave and reject you. They don’t make you work for it, and you feel like they are beneath you in some way. It sounds like maybe you haven’t had the exact relationships that you’ve wanted, so it’s easier to just want people who are showing how much they want you. People who are needy and broken can be much more vocal about those needs and that will make you feel special, and desired. But that’s really not love. And those people WILL leave too, once they are up and running in their lives. So it’s not a good plan to bank on those people. I’m sure you’ll say that’s not the reason, but I would bet that if you look deeply and honestly at yourself, there might be more truth to this than you want to admit.

All this to say, there’s nothing wrong with you for being this way and I’m sure you’re a lovely person. You sound very strong and powerful. Would you relate to those words being used to describe you? What I’m saying though, is that how you’re conducting your life is not going to get you to that healthy relationship. You have to be willing to be vulnerable, and allow yourself to express your own desires beyond, “I just want to help other people”. What about you? What about what you really want?

I am not saying that you need to make any changes with Guy #1 as you’ve said that you’re fine with his friendship if nothing else, and if that’s the case, then ok. But I would just hate to see you making someone Plan A who is keeping you on tap as their Plan B. You deserve better than that. So be friends with him, have a nice time, but don’t put your eggs in his basket and leave yourself open for other opportunities.

Tell me more about your marriage. I’m sorry to hear that your husband was verbally abusive and made you feel bad about medical issues and things beyond your control. Men like to have so many opinions about women’s bodies, when it’s really none of their business. Especially when you’ve birthed his children. How did things actually end with the two of you?

I think you have a lot to offer but I also feel a sense of loneliness from you and a desire to be adored and cherished. Wanted, not just needed. I feel like you are yearning for a true partnership, to be fully met and seen. I believe you can have that, but I do think that this story you have about your “attraction to needy people” might be holding you back.

I’m curious what your therapist has to say about it?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Shaye,

I can understand how as a parent, finding someone else who is also a devoted family man is very attractive. It sounds like you had an easy connection that worked really well for a long time. The only thing that really sounds suspect to me is how easily he seems to jump from relationship to relationship. I understand that with you he had been your friend for a long time so it didn’t seem sudden, but now that he’s already with someone else, that seems a bit strange. It sounds like he also doesn’t want to be alone and so will just be with someone rather than deal with his own emotions. That’s what worries me in the situation with you as well. he sounds very passive and like he just lets life do what it wants with him. He doesnt make a lot of his own decisions.

You started messaging by saying that you broke up with him, so once again, even if he wasn’t happy, would he have said anything? That can be dangerous because a person like that might one day explode, or implode. Either way, not healthy.

When you did break up, how did he react? What was his response? Did you still continue on as friends? Did you take a break? How did you get back in touch with each other again recently? Do you know the new person he’s dating?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Crystal,

Thanks so much for letting me know more about Anthony and his personality. It does sound like he’s been very caring and thoughtful in general, and for the most part, able to communicate his thoughts and feelings rather well. I wouldn’t snub your efforts though either, as it sounds like you have also been forthright with your feelings and the two of you have been able to have mature and open conversations, and have remedied miscommunications thus far in the relationship. This gives me much hope for the two of you moving forward.

Also while I certainly don’t know for sure, I feel more optimistic now about this truly being a “pause” as Anthony doesn’t sound like someone who would beat around the bush or not be able to express himself clearly. But I agree with how in your letter you mentioned that it would be important for the two of you to determine what exactly this pause will look like, and how to stay connected during this time so as not to compromise your bond.

In terms of the letter, well done! I can’t imagine a man who is as intelligent and kind as Anthony sounds receiving that letter and not having a positive response. It is a very sweet, kind, and loving letter, while also being realistic and compassionate to anything that he might be feeling. Since you have a history of sending each other gifts, it sounds like the champagne and the letter would work well together. I only have a few small edits that I would make, but they are minimal. Here they are…

I think I did a big disservice to our relationship with my reply. When we are together in an intimate partnership, the way to build and deepen that bond is to be open and transparent. I wasn’t open because I thought I should give you space. I was also hurt and confused and I did not know what else to say. Now that I’ve had some time to think, I realize that I could have responded to your “take a break” message with a gentler (and more thoughtful) one, such as “It’s OK. I know your work is important and we’ll have a lot of fun as a couple when the Project crosses a milestone. Can we talk about how we want this pause to look like?” This would really help me because I am unable to read your mind. Eg., I can’t discern:

• Do you just want to concentrate on work for now and once we launch the Project, we will embrace each other with excitement again, like how you first hugged me at that airport hotel in M.

• Do you want a break-up?

When I can’t read your mind, it is unnerving. I think you can remove this line as it feels like you’ve already said this>

Can I appeal to your protector instinct to have an open conversation with me one evening? It won’t take long.
I would cut out that last line. There’s no reason for you to have to act like it’s a burden for you to be asking for this. You deserve to have this conversation, and whether it takes 20 mins or 2 hours is ok. You have done nothing wrong.

The pain and confusion I am feeling is likely due to bad communications on our part. You can take out this line too as it’s not really relevant anymore by moving this part to above.

At this point I would just ask for a concrete time that he’s available for the conversation. Is Monday or Wednesday better for you this week?

I am confident we can rise above this change to any adversity (ie., my hurt and confusion) cut that line out, this is not just about you being hurt. Once gain, you are not to blame for having feelings!

If you do care about me, please drop me a message… Nope! If you care about me is a passive aggressive statement. He cares about you and he has shown you that. Don’t doubt it. Just ask for what you want!

please drop me a message to let me know you have read this letter and we will (set up a time to) talk.

So those are my notes, I hope that they are helpful!

Please keep me posted on how things go. I am rooting for you! You’re an intelligent and lovely woman and you deserve to have good things.

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Rachel,

How are you doing? I just wanted to check back in as I didn’t hear back from you and I wanted to make sure that you’re ok. It sounds like you are in a really emotionally draining situation where your self-care might be going out the window, so I just wanted to be that little voice in your ear reminding you that you matter, you’re worth it, and that you’ve done nothing wrong.

Hoping that helps!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Jessi,

Just wanted to check in with you again. I can imagine that my message to you was perhaps not what you wanted to hear and I’m sorry about that. But I don’t think it’s ever in anyone’s best interests for us coaches to sugarcoat or tell people things if we don’t believe in them to be true.

We’d rather save you more heartache than to advise you to continue to pursue things that we feel from our years of experience, have red flags written all over them. We’d be doing a disservice to you and all of our other clients if we were not completely transparent with you.

That being said, I hope that you understand and please know that we are here to help. If my style doesn’t work for you and you’d prefer to chat with the other coach Heidi, that is more than fine as well, and I can make sure that she contacts you.

We just want to make sure that you get the help and support you need to navigate the wild world of love and relationships!

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Crystal,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your story! I have to say that I think the real culprit of what is happening here is a lack of not only clear communication, but what I would refer to as compassionate and intimate conversation. Your relationship is so wrapped up in work that your intimate relationship is just treated like another aspect of “the Project”. Each message reads like the kind of message that you would only send to a colleague, not at all to a lover, partner, or someone that you care about.

It sounds like you have a story that to be vulnerable and honest about your feelings would be to appear weak to a man, and you don’t want to do that. Can you share more about those feelings and where they come from?

When you are with someone in an intimate partnership, the way to build and deepen that bond is to be open and transparent, not treat everything like you’re rescheduling a business meeting. His message to you (and by the way, it’s horrifying that so much of this is being done via messaging) saying let’s take a break, was so dry and cold, as if he was asking you to send an email off or something. But to be fair, your response was no better. Maybe you were screaming on the inside, but your reply was as emotional as a piece of dry toast. So how is he to know that there’s anything different to be had?

Believe me, I understand that when you’re a strong and independent woman who is used to taking care of herself, it can be very hard to break down those walls and let anyone in. It’s so very difficult to be vulnerable, and really show a man who you could care about how much you really do care. But if you never do, you will miss out on having a deep and intimate bond with that man. Sure, opening yourself up could result in heartbreak and heartache, but at least your heart is doing something in that scenario besides just sitting there pumping blood.

So I have a few questions for you.

How happy are you really in this relationship? How fulfilled, how overjoyed, how passionately do you feel about this man? And in general, breaks aside, how do you think he would answer this same question?

Also, what do you really want? And do you think that you could get that with him?
I’m getting that you don’t want the break and you are wanting to get back together, but are you really getting what you want?

To me it sounds so much like a business arrangement, and I’m not hearing the passion, what you like to do together, what brings you joy together, how adored and cherished you feel around him, how being with him makes you a better version of yourself.

It also sounds like he really sets the tone in the relationship. He is working on “the Project”, he is getting you clients, he is telling you when and where he will be available. It was nice to hear that you let him know your disappointment when he didn’t express interest in your health, but it sounds to me like yoy’re rather tight-lipped with him and you’re not really putting yourself out there enough.

From what you’re telling me, I don’t think that he has any idea how you really feel. It very well might be the case that he is feeling overwhelmed and just pumping the breaks and since you took it all so well, he’s just assuming that everything is fine. Women do this with men all the time. They expect men to read their minds and be as emotional as they are and for the most part, it’s just not that way. Especially in a case like there where you’ve already called him out as an “emotionally unavailable” man.

My advice is never to be coy or passive aggressive. I am a fan of direct and clear as that is the more mature and confident thing to do. As you mentioned, if he doesn’t want to be with you, you can have a good cry and go find someone who does, so why waste time trying to read his mind? I wouldn’t wait for May. I would have a call with him and lay it all out there. Ask him to be honest with how he feels. Be honest with how you feel. It’s as simple as that. The alternative? Stay in limbo and try to discern the truth of what he really wants from small signs and cues here and there that really mean very little.

You seem like a strong and confident woman who has a lot going for her. I’m positive that you can express yourself in a clear way that will encourage and enable him to be forthright with you, which is what you truly want. You just want clarity, and there’s never a better way to get it than to simply ask.

How does that sound?
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Shaye,

There are a couple of things here that would give me pause, and would make me question more not only about him, but also about the relationship that you guys had.

When you first told him about how you felt, why did he say that you couldn’t ever be more than friends?

When you were with the other person, and you said he looked jealous and disappointed, did he express that as well, or was it just something that you assumed from his reaction? What happened with that other person and why did you break up?

When you both expressed having feelings, why did you at that point decide to be in each other’s lives in a limited capacity? Was it because you were both still with other people?

I can understand that you just went with it when he broke up with his son’s mom, as you’d been waiting for this all along, and of course you wanted to believe that he was too, but even though you’d been close all of this time, he was rebounding with you. He was turning to you because it was an easy and comfortable situation and when you break up with someone, you can often just want easy comfort, which you were there to give. But part of the thing is that you already had years of an established dynamic, and that wasn’t goingto change without some real concerted effort and desire. I’m sorry to say, but it doesn’t sound like he had that passion. And it sounds like he’s a passive person in general, just going from situation to situation not looking at his previous relationships and learning from them. Do you see him as passive?

But I want to go back to the original message as you were saying that you were afraid that he couldn’t give you what you wanted. You know him pretty well, and have seen him in a relationship before. Do you think he could give someone else that thing that you want? Have you seen him give it to others? Do you think maybe he’s not really capable of that? Maybe especially right now. It doesn’t sound to me like he knows what he wants at all…

So what is it that you want now? You want to be in a romantic relationship with him? Why? What happened when you were in the romantic relationship that felt different or better than how you had been when you were at the height of your friendship?

It would be good to look at what it is that you’re really wanting here, because it doesn’t sound like he’s at his best in partnership, and maybe true friends is what he really needs more than another girlfriend.

Thoughts?
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Shaye,

Ah ok, so you were friends while he was in a relationship but you had feelings for him all that time…did he know that? What happened in his relationship that caused the split? How long after they broke up did the two of you start dating?

It’s often the case that when someone breaks up, they need time to re-evaluate who they are and what they want, which it doesn’t sound like he had. Also it sounds like he gets in relationships quite quickly if he’s already on to dating someone else now even after you!

I also am wondering how did you transition from friends to bf/gf? Did you ever have a conversation about how that might affect your friendship? It sounds like you just assumed that once he was single, you would just take the place of gf, but is that what he wanted? it sounds like he may not have been too sure…

What do you think?
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Jessi,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for letting us know about your situation and what you’re dealing with! So you have two guys to contend with…hm…well guys are like buses. There’s always one coming around the corner. If you miss one, you can just catch the next one. So that being said, it’s important to be choosy when you decide which bus to jump on or you could find yourself taken on a pretty precarious ride that drops you off in the middle of nowhere! So let’s take a look at your scenarios, shall we?

Guy #1: This situation is very concerning because you are trying to put all of your eggs in a basket that’s on another woman’s porch. He has even told you that he will shut down whatever it is that you’re doing if his ex decides that she wants to be with him. So that means that he is just using you for a good time. It sounds like you guys have fun and good chemistry, and after you both being in unhappy situations, of course it feels good to live in a fantasy with someone. But unfortunately, that’s all that it is. You can’t be trying to build a foundation with someone who isn’t available.

You said that that I told him that I wouldn’t stand in the way and that I would be supportive. And that is still my genuine answer. But then you said that you are not going to go down without a respectable and fair fight . These statements are diametrically opposed and also concerning that you would think that this is your man to fight for. Imagine if the situation was reversed and this was the father of your children. How would you feel about another woman that he just met was wanting to fight for him? What are you fighting for? Not only is he not yours to fight for, but NO WOMAN should have to fight for a man. If he wants to be with you, he will make the choice to leave his marriage completely and commit to you.

His indecisiveness is not the sign of a man who is going to do that and is definitely not in your favor. He will go back to the thing that’s the most comfortable, nine out of 10 times.

I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this doesn’t sound like anything more than a fun distraction for two people who are in deep pain from previous relationships…You deserve to be loved and cherished for who you are, not just be the side piece waiting around in case he doesn’t go back to his wife. You have to value yourself more than that, honey!

Guy #2: Do you like projects? Distraction #2, nuff said. Seriously, I didn’t need to read his story to get the gist that this guy is in NO WAY ready for a relationship either.

Girl, you need to learn your own value. How long have you been single? Have you ever been single? You need to decide what you want! Everything I hear is about how can I please these guys. These guys make me better. It’s not healthy.

Let’s go back to you…you were in an abusive relationship. You need to focus on healing yourself from that before you embark on trying to get into a relationship in order to heal.

Now I know this is a lot and I just want you to know that we say things like we see them here, but we do so from a place of love. We do so because we don’t want to see our ladies being taken advantage of, or being involved in unhealthy relationships, or getting their hearts broken. We say this because we care, and we want to help you be happy. So I hope you see that this is only coming from a place of care…and blatant honesty!

Please do share your thoughts, whatever they are. I am here to help you!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Shaye,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for reaching out to share your story! I’m so sorry to hear that you’re going through this. It’s never fun to have regrets, and it’s always so tempting to blame yourself for the situation and think if I only did this or that differently, my life would be exactly how I want it. While it’s normal to think that way, it’s never usually that true.

For one thing, it takes two to tango, and there are always things that each person in a situation did that influences the outcome of the situation. So I wouldn’t be beating yourself up too hard because you may have been doing what you felt was best at that time. And even if you were just reacting out of fear, that’s ok too. You’re human, and it sounds like you might have some trauma that is causing you to not trust in love and people who say that they feel that way about you, and that’s natural too. So let’s delve a bit more into the specifics so i can understand more and be of better assistance.

You said that you loved this person for 2 years, but only dated for 5 months once we finally got the chance to date.
What exactly does that mean? Why weren’t you able to date sooner if you’ve loved him for that long?

You also said: I was afraid he wouldn’t be able to love me how I needed to be loved

Now it’s very astute to know how you need to be loved, and it’s great if you have that knowledge. Can you share more about how it is that you need to be loved and how you came about finding out that this is what’s important to you?

To be fair, if someone isn’t going to be able to love you in the way that you need, then it IS the best thing to not go deeper into it and break things off before you get even more attached and entangled. So the real question for that is…what led you to believe that he couldn’t? It sounds like you’re thinking now that it was just your fear, but be honest…were there red flags that possibly were showing up that made you come to this determination? Could it be that you were actually right about that and you are just feeling sad now that he’s with someone else? As much as you may not want to believe that this is the case, it could be…I’d like to help you to weigh each side of the situation.

There is definitely a good amount to unpack here so let’s start with that! I look forward to hearing more and seeing how I can help.

xoxo
Spyce

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