[Coach Spyce]

Hi S,

Well not surprising that he’s reached back out! Ready to sweep everything under the rug and pretend like it all never happened. So how do you feel about that? Are you ok with going back to just being friends with him, or does it feel like you want more? Or are you turned off now and don’t want to have anything to do with him? I don’t see any of these responses as wrong, as long as you are doing what makes you feel best.

For example if you’d like to go back to being friends with him and it’s not going to affect you negatively, then do it! Enjoy whatever it is that he provides when he provides it and just don’t expect anything more. If it feels better for you to cut him out of your life completely you have every right to do just that. It’s all up to you.

But it sounds like you do have some feelings about it, which is certainly natural. You opened yourself up to him after many years of his insistence, and his treatment of you really was and is not fair. Do you feel inclined to tell him that? Would it feel better to have him back in your life, or better for not at all? If you do decide to be friendly with him again, of course you have to make it on your terms. That’s for sure!

So what are you thinking to do?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Tahirih,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for writing in and sharing your story! I’m sorry hatt you’re feeling badly from this situation but it’s totally understandable. It’s so disappointing when someone just totally changes their behaviour without warning or communication. It really is awful!

I have a few questions.
You said: I never paid any attention to him until this 5 months ago this year. Is there any particular reason why you began to pay attention to this man now, even though you’ve been at the job for 3 years? What made you notice him after all this time? Was there anything in particular that happened or changed in your life?

You also said: We began to casually get close to one another going on dates and just spending time with one another.
Does that mean that you were dating? Were you intimate? Was it more friendly?

Then you said: that’s the day he ghosted me. I didn’t realize that’s what happened until, a week later.

So what did happen? How did he ghost you? Did he just stop talking to you? What’s happened since? June 4th over 2 months ago…have you been in contact with him?
Where are you at now with the situation?

Look forward to learning more and seeing how we can help!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi S,

I’m sure you’re right…old habits die hard, and I’m sure that there was something (probably many things) about your relationship that made him feel good.
How do you think that you would respond if he messaged you?

That’s great to hear that you’ve been learning things from this site, and I also think that you were really healthy with how you handled this experience. You seemed to be able to quickly see and understand how he was behaving badly, and not take how he was acting personally. You didn’t take it on as something wrong with you, you saw it as it was, a man being totally ridiculous and immature. That’s great and I’m proud of you!

I’m wondering is that new behaviour for you? How have you acted at the end of other relationships? Tell me more about what your significant relationships have been like?

And what are you learning from the site?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi S,

Good for you! While of course it’s difficult and sad to lose a long time friend and companion, I’m glad that the way he treated you is a dealbreaker, and that you can now see his true colors. It’s really great that you’re valuing yourself in this way, and not allowing bad behaviour into your life.
Do you think you will ever hear from him again if you stop reaching out?

For now, it’s on the next! How do you typically meet men to date? And is that something you’re looking to pursue right now?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi S,

Thanks for your words of appreciation! I’m glad to know that what I’m saying is landing and helping you move through this.

I can really relate as I know what it’s like to care about someone for so long. When you have a bond over time, it’s difficult to just walk away, right? I’ve had old friends treat me like garbage while going through personal things that had nothing to do with me (bad relationships, drug use, mental health, etc) and I had to learn to respect myself more than they were respecting me and walk away. And even though I knew it was them, not me, it was still difficult to let go and trust that maybe they would come back to me…but if they did, it would be only on my terms.

Your situation is compounded by the intimacy, and the build up to said intimacy. It’s really ridiculous how he “wanted” you all those years and then as Courtney Love said (she’s not someone I really like enough to quote but this line always stuck with me when dealing with men) “you get what you want, and you never want it again”. It’s such a classic immature and selfish behaviour as mentioned, but I also want to point out that he’s being a complete disgrace of a human being, and far from any kind of friend. Whether stranger or dear friend, you deserve more, and I’m sorry that you’re not getting it.
Can you make him give it to you? I just don’t think so…

So what can you do? Yes you’re right, difficult to pretend it didn’t happen and also can’t pretend that he didn’t act (and isn’t continuing to act) like a crap person. When you say, obviously I still want a love relationship with him are you meaning that you want to be his girlfriend after how he’s been, and how much work you acknowledge he needs to do? Or do you want closure? Do you want to be friends? Back to close friends?

So I still don’t completely know what you want (or maybe just don’t want to) but my myriad of ideas starts with one thing and that is really the most important ones: opening a channel and clear communication. Which to be honest, it doesn’t sound like you were really having that much of to begin with. You had fun yes, but really only going so deep before, with no real responsibility to each other. Once you started to want to break out of the shallow waters, he had to put an end to it because scratch the surface and…he’s got a whole bunch of baggage. And he doesn’t want to have open and clear communication about any of that. But that’s what a healthy relationship takes…

Now if you wanted to say to him, “hey, let’s just pretend this never happened” I bet he’d be fine with that. And if that’s what you want, there’s no shame in that. Have him as your “best friend”. But if you want to have a love relationship, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree…

He does not sound willing or capable of having that with ANYONE. His wife, his daughters, and now you, the person he’s been lusting over for 20 years. Who knows? Maybe he’s mourning that too. Maybe he is aware of how broken he is and he’s angry at himself for how he’s treating you. Maybe he’s going through his own personal hell feeling like an epic failure. I wouldn’t doubt it, his life doesn’t sound great. But until and unless he’s willing to admit all of this and be willing to talk about it, there is no healing to be had and there is no changing to be made.
And that’s the sad and honest truth.

Thoughts?
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Jennafer,

I was reading thru your messages and figured that I’d chime in. Thanks for sharing more about your situationship! It helps to know more of the background so we can more easily help you navigate the wonderful world of dating, lol!

You asked “there is no way to keep anything with *this* guy?” and my question would be, what are you wanting to keep? And what are you trying to develop?

It sounds like you casually know him from “around” and if you live in a small town, you can easily “know someone” without actually knowing them. That can create a certain level of comfort which is good, but it can also lead you to believe that because you know A about them, that B, C, D, and the entire alphabet might come along with it. They rarely do. I say this because it sounds like you really like this guy and are ignoring everything he is throwing up your way, even if it sounds like he’s being pretty clear.

I have to say that I admire your tenacity, and your ability to put yourself out there and express what you want. That is what I practice and preach, but many women are taught to not be that way, so most aren’t. And in reality, that’s really the best way to get what you want, is ask for it. Many times, those who actually put effort into something can get it, and that’s the good news. Figure out what you really want, and then try to make it happen.

But the next important part of that, and necessary when you’re trying to do something together with someone else is listening and taking in what the other person says. Ask for what you want, but then also listen to what the other person wants, and then the most important part is to take all of that info and meld it together to determine next steps forward.

So back to my original question, what do you want from him?
You said, I’m open to possibilities but wanted to get to know him more/spend time together.
That’s great but he’s said in more ways than one now that he doesn’t want a relationship, isn’t open to possibilities and doesn’t want to get to know you more/spend time together…So continuing to reach out to him is only going to lead to hurt feelings because your goals are misaligned.

Please don’t take this like there’s something wrong with you. A man just out of a relationship has no business jumping into another and that would be a red flag there if he did, so he’s doing the right thing. If you’re ready for a relationship then better to start looking at what you can do to get in one as opposed to chasing after someone who isn’t available. If you are looking for a relationship, this is not where you’re going to find it. This guy is not even capable of what you’re wanting now.

Here’s the thing, you shouldn’t have to be making bets with him to take you on a date. You shouldn’t have to have a friend put in a good word for you. You shouldn’t have to be cajoling or convincing someone to want to be with you. I’m sure you’re an awesome chick and lots of fun! You deserve to give your precious time to someone who’s going to treat it as such! Not some dude mooning over his ex. You can do better, I know you can!

So that brings us to my next question…what’s next?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi S,

Thanks for the message and sorry for the delay in response. You got lost in the shuffle but now we are back!

So it sounds like unfortunately your friend is just not someone who is fit for a deeper connection. It worked out well all of these years because as mentioned, you could be casual and he could always avoid deeper intimacy because of his already taken status. Even though he was technically your “best friend”, he didn’t have to be your boyfriend, and he could split when and if things ever got too intense.

Him knowing of your history certainly did not imply that he would never do anything like that to you. If anything, it let him know, even subconsciously, that this is what you would stand for. He knew first hand how you dealt with these men and your boundaries, and/or lack thereof. Whether to not he is consciously, he could certainly use this info to his advantage when thinking about getting involved with you on a deeper level.

And it sounds like he’s not been one to respect boundaries anyhow. He continued to make comments that you were uncomfortable with after being asked not to. He sent you a card and didn’t even have the courage to be honest with you that he’d sent it. He’s not emotionally available to his ex wife, his children, his friends, or anyone in his life. So my real question is, what do you think that being close to this man, or trying to, will actually bring into your life?

When I asked “what do you want now from the situation?”, your response was, “I don’t know what to do from here.” But to be clear, I’m not asking you what you think you should do. Depending on what you want, I have a myriad of ideas. But that’s still the question: what do you want? What kind of connection do you want with this man?

We always question when a woman is willing to jump through hoops, do anything it takes, and basically fight for a man who is not willing to fight for her. What can you get out of situation like that? How hard do you want to work for a partnership where there is no real other partner involved?

His actions smack of immaturity, insecurity, unhappiness, and it sounds like he has a LOT of work to do. Work that only he can decide that he needs to do and wants to. There’s really nothing you can do unless he sees that there is an issue and does the work to makes changes. All you can really determine from here is what you want out of the situation.

Let me know your thoughts and I can help you develop the best course of action from here!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

hi S,

I’m glad to hear that my reflections helped! It can be so hard to see the forest for the trees in these kinds of situations. People (men) make things so complicated when it doesn’t have to be, and it’s sad as it can ruin something perfectly good and wonderful.

You said that you really can’t tell me what caused the sudden change in your feelings after all this time but I think there is a deeper answer there. What else is going on in your life right now? How are things with work? Family? Other friends? Are there are other parts of your life where you’re feeling a loss and it felt like this could be an easy win? What has been going on for you romantically recently, as well as in your past? What has your relationship life like been in general?

I totally understand how the jumping into bed first thing happens, as that is usually the way it goes! It’s very exciting to have something happen like that, especially with so much build-up. And even if you weren’t pining all these years, there is still something very enticing about being with someone that you know so well and never thought of in that way.

But feelings do happen, especially with women. Because that’s how we are. We grow in our attraction to someone the more we get to know them. After we’ve developed an emotional relationship and feel safe, and when a man has actively pursued us for so long, eventually we just may start to see him in a different light, and that’s exactly what happened.

You mentioned that he is not a very open kind of guy, so does this mean that in all these almost 20 years of friendship he has not talked with you openly about his feelings? Has he always just been the guy that you rely on? And so in his desire for you, was a relationship never discussed? Was it just that he wanted to sleep with you? How exactly did he express his desire for you all these years?

I’m sorry that he’s being so cold to you, but I hope you can see it for what it is. He’s acting out of fear now and is obviously not thinking rationally. He did the typical guy thing, which is get confused and pull away. As you mentioned, he is trying to show that he doesn’t want a relationship by being a jerk, instead of just using his words. It’s probably because he thinks that using his words will hurt you, but what he is doing is even more hurtful and it’s immature.

To be honest, his “loveless/sexless” marriage is a big red flag in and of itself. It always takes two to tango, and it’s never just one person’s fault in a failed relationship. If he was emotionally absent, how would his wife want to be intimately involved with him? It sound like he doesn’t know how to be intimately involved with anyone. So he could be your best friend when you were just a fantasy and someone to lust over, but when things got real, he couldn’t handle it. He could be a good friend, when there’s not that expectation there for true intimacy. He felt safe because he had the crutch of his wife to stop him from getting deeper. And he probably even felt safe because he could get a feel of intimacy from you without the expectation of something more. So once you did want more, he retreated, because he just doesn’t have the capacity to have that deep connection. Figuring out why is a whole other story…

So what do you want now from the situation?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi S,

Welcome to the forum and thanks so much for sharing your story! I’m so sorry to hear that you are going through this painful experience with someone that you have been so close to. It’s really shocking when someone changes their mind so quickly, and especially about something that they claim to want so badly, but unfortunately it’s not surprising and I hear this all the time from women.

There are a couple of things here that have some indications of how things could have gone south and that give me pause. Let’s begin.

He just got out of a 30 year loveless marriage where he wanted you for 18+ years. So during that time, while he couldn’t have you, or anyone for that matter, it was easy for him to place a high significance on you and your relationship. You were there as a beacon, someone to long after, the answer to his problems, and especially since he couldn’t have you, he desperately wanted you.

An almost 20 year fantasy is hard to live up to. This has been built up in his mind for a long time as the end all and be all, but realistically it sounds like he does also know you well. He knows how you are in relationships, sounds like he sees you clearly, and that may or may not be compatible with what he’s wanting right now.

Now he is free and you aren’t the only person in his life that he is allowed to spend time with. He can explore, date, and try being with any and all of the women he couldn’t be with in the last 30 years. So he may not want to settle down with anyone just yet. He may be more interested in playing the field.

Can you explain more about this?
In January this year after another weekend away together, I suddenly realised I did have feelings for him and very quickly after we got together, I told him I had fallen in love with him.

What caused the sudden change in your feelings? Why after all of this time did you catch feelings? At that moment did you talk about it and see how he was feeling or did you get into bed first and talk after?

It can be very difficult to transition a relationship from friends to lovers and life partners, and typically it takes a lot of communication to get it right. Looking at it cautiously is important and discussing all of the pitfalls is necessary.

So what I’m wondering, is how do you relate in that emotionally and mentally? Can/do you have open and honest conversations about your deepest emotions? Are you both forthcoming people, or do you tend to tell people what they want to hear in order to not hurt them?

You’ve been close for a long time and I anticipate that you can get back to that place, but it will take clear communication, and honesty and vulnerability on both of your parts. Do you think you can do that?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Charlotta,

Nice to hear back from you, and thanks for sharing more!

So you’ve been in a long distance relationship… How far are your cities? How often do you see each other? It can be hard to develop and maintain a closeness when you are not in each other’s daily lives. How did that go for you? What challenges did you have, and how did you handle them? Were you able to find ways to stay connected? If so, what were they?

One day he just stopped taking your calls…so then you went to his place to talk with him, and then you broke up. What was his reason for not wanting to be together? What did he tell you when he saw you in person?

You haven’t been in touch since April…you have each other’s stuff, so that’s a reason to reach out. However he has your stuff too, so he also has a reason to reach out, and he hasn’t. So you can reach out if you want, but just know that.

I also don’t really know the dynamic of your relationship. How did you meet? Did he pursue you? How if so? Who was the one to make plans? Were you always intimate?

I look forward to hearing more!
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Julie,

You look great! How did things go?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Charlotta,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for reaching out! I’d love to learn more about your situation so I can help you navigate the murky waters of relationships and men’s brains!

Can you share more? How long were you together? What were the circumstances of your breakup? Were there things left unsaid?

Why are you reaching out at his time? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you looking to get back together?

Please share more so we can come up with the best plan together for a way forward.

Look forward to hearing more,
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Julie,

Glad to hear that your partner is coming back around! Is there something specific that you think is making the difference?

I’m curious about the timeline. You said that you were together for 3.5 years and then he asked you to move out. Did you move out? How long ago was that? And what happened in between that time to get you back to the 4-5 nights per week? Or did that never stop?

I’ve definitely seen this before when a man will want children and he’s with a woman who is, by society’s standards, too old to be a mother. However as you said, there are many ways these days to have a family, and if this is the only kernel of dissent in your situation, it certainly can be worth exploring options.

It sounds like he genuinely loves you, but is concerned about the ability to have children. So at times he doesn’t think about it, and just focused on the good times you have together, but then realizes that time is going by and he’s not working towards his goal of fatherhood, and so pushes you away to not get further connected.

But if having a family with him is your goal as well, then you need to start working on it with him together, and letting him know that you share this important goal with him. That is going to bond you together, instead of pushing you farther apart as he doesn’t see you as being able to be the mother of his children. If you truly are willing and able to be on this journey with him, and he with you, then you need to let him know that and go into it full force.

Thoughts?
xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Keri,

That’s what I’m saying. At this point you just have to focus on you. Stop asking him what he wants, or what he’s doing. Tell him, this is what I want and this is what I’m doing. And if you don’t want to be with me, there’s nothing that I can do about it, so I’m just going to live my life and try to be happy without you. You have to show him that you can accept that he doesn’t want to be with you. I’m sure that will make him take notice but that can’t be the only reason that you do it.

You are fighting for someone who is not fighting for you. You are making yourself sick and unhappy trying to be with someone who is telling you time and again that he doesn’t want to be with you, and his actions are speaking the same thing.

I know it’s confusing because he says that he loves you, and he can love you in his way, but it is apparent that he doesn’t want to be in the relationship. And if he won’t tell you why, there’s not much of anything that you can do to change that.

All you can do is work on yourself. Can you think of any way that you can do that?

xoxo
Spyce

[Coach Spyce]

Hi Keri,

I know how painful this is, but at this point I think you need to take a step back from trying to get him to feel a certain way and start thinking about your future and your children. From what you’re telling me, he is not willing to make any changes, and he doesn’t want to work on the relationship. You can’t change other people, all you can do is change yourself and what you will accept.

Right now you are willing to accept anything from him because you want to make it work, but if he doesn’t want to do that, it’s just going o be a losing battle for you. There are obviously things that he is not telling you. It may be that he is interested in someone else. It may be that he is unhappy about his life in general. We could speculate all day long but it’s impossible to say because he won’t tell you. The only thing that he is telling you is that he’s done, but if he’s not saying why, he is leaving you no way to fix things or do things any differently, and that’s not fair.

You can’t make someone feel something that they don’t, all you can do is be yourself and work on your own life. He is treating you poorly and you are letting him, and I’m sure that further degrades his feelings for you. But this is not meant to be a criticism of you. You are simply doing what you feel like you need to in order to keep what you want and I understand that. At this point though, he is not treating you well, and that is the unfortunate part. He’s holding his presence over your head like a prize, even though what prize is it to have him sleep on the couch, not talk to you, and treat you like a nuisance.

Whether he wants to or not, you need to have a heart to heart talk with him. Stop giving him all the power and coming to him needy and broken. He is doing you dirty, and the sooner you can start getting a little angry at him, the better off you will be. It’s not fair that he won’t tell you what the issue is. It’s not fair that he won’t try to give your marriage another chance. It’s not fair that he’s on his phone all the time and ignoring your children. He is acting poorly, and you have to stop rewarding him with your undying love. Do you think you can do that?

There is no way to save a marriage if someone is throwing it away. All you can do is change how you react in the situation. And maybe if he doesn’t see you as a doormat he may come to some kind of realization on his own. But it’s tough to say really. Standing up for yourself and your children to be treated kindly is the first step.

Thoughts?
xoxo
Spyce

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