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Hi Latisha!
Thank you for sharing all of that information with us! It helps make sense of everything a lot more.I want to first validate you. He DID break your trust when he cheated. Breaking trust in that particular way can break the heart and hurt so deeply. And it can take awhile to heal from it as well. How do you feel about letting it go from now on? Can you agree with him and with yourself, that you will never bring it up again? Do you feel that is possible? In a way, you have done something to him as well. You have continued to punish him, blame him, be angry at him and you have never let it go….so eventually he will feel like it will be a never-ending thing and that you will never forgive him about. There will be no moving forward with him as long as you hold that over him. You will never feel the same as long as you keep holding onto that hurt. So there are 2 ways about this. 1. Forgive and continue to move forward with him 2. Forgive and let him go and create a new life without him.
Here is my personal definition of forgiveness…giving up the right for revenge. When someone hurts us so deeply, it is pretty natural to want to hurt them back or make them pay somehow for the hurt they caused. You have chosen to hold it over his head and bring it up all the time and punish him with your hurt. So forgiving doesn’t mean you forget, it just means you let go of punishing him. You align with the fact that he was human and made a very poor choice that broke your trust. There is not much more he can do than to say he is sorry. Now it’s up to you to let it go. There is nothing he can do to make you feel better. The hurt you are feeling is between you and your heart. It’s in a place of your heart that he is not able to touch or heal for you. It’s in that place that only you can deal with. So I would say to work on forgiveness and letting that moment go. THEN….you can decide what you want to do next. When there is so much hurt and feelings of betrayal, there is no possible way you would be able to think clearly about what you want or need. There is no way for anything to go back the way it used to be until YOU deal with your side of things.
How does this make you feel? Does it make sense to you?
I don’t know if you ever have watched Sex and the City, but if yes….there are a few episodes where Steve cheated on Miranda. They went to a therapist and got help and eventually they were both cornered into making a choice. The therapist told both of them…..You will meet at a place of your choosing in 3 days (I can’t remember the exact scenario, but you will get the point). You are not to see each other before then. If you both show up at this location at an agreed upon time, then you telling the other person, I want to move forward with you. I want to let go of all the hurt and we are starting clean. If you someone does not show up, then they are saying they do not want to move forward. They want to break up. Here is a super short clip of it.Heidi
Oh Robin!
I am so sorry! I know how you feel. It is such crazy making to be connected, having fun and bonding and then the next moment, he has disappeared. The “not knowing why” part is what makes the entire situation feel like a tornado inside. I am so sorry you are going through this.
There are 2 things I always recommend in this type of situation:
1. Try to investigate more. Is there any possible way you could get more information? Call his work and see if he is still there? Can you stop by his house? You don’t have to go in or even let him know you were there, but just finding out if he is still alive and okay and not in a hospital bed somewhere….well it’s important for you to just know that he is okay. If he is okay, then you know that he has ghosted you for some reason that he is choosing not to divulge. If he isn’t okay, then you have the “why” answer. Either way, at least finding out that much can create some closure for you.
2. Set a time limit. It is so important for you to decide when you will choose to move on. Since he is not responsive to you, it leaves you hanging out there with no closure, no answers, no nothing. He may never offer you an answer, so the way you get back your control of the situation is to decide to move on yourself. You set a day in your mind and decide that if you don’t hear from him by that day, then you are going to officially end it in your mind and heart and you start to focus on healing instead of waiting for a reply. What works well is to say something like this, “Listen…I have no idea what has happened. I thought we were doing really well. I was having a lot of fun with you and feeling really good about the direction we were going in. But obviously, since you have decided to disappear, you did not feel the same way. Whatever your reasons for disappearing, it hurts that you won’t honor me with at least your truth. But of course, you get to do this in whatever fashion you want and I have to and will honor your choice. So I have regretfully come to this choice. If I do not hear back from you by December 1st, then consider the door closed from that day forward. I must create closure for myself if you decide you don’t want to talk with me. I hope to hear from you. If I don’t, know that I will miss you greatly. Take care”
You only send him this type of note AFTER you have done #1 and know for sure he is okay and still living his daily life.
How do you feel about this approach?
Heidi
HI Janice,
It sounds like you are on the right track! What about staying in your house and finding a different place for your son? This way, you and him can settle into a routine, sooner than later, in the place you are going to stay and hopefully grow old together. If you were wanting to rent a place anyways, then why not have your son move there since he is only there temporarily. You and your husband need to get grounded and build together. The sooner he can have his own room to do with what he wants, the better!
As far as reconciliation, what have you tried so far? Are you guys talking to each other at all? Have you told him that you set boundaries with your son? Have you told him any of your ideas? Again, it will help if you remind him of why you appreciate him and why you value him in your life. You are doing the best you know how and know that there is a lot of room for improvement, but you want that chance to improve with him. Is he willing to have a chat with you so you can let him know everything you are doing to fight for him?
It may take some time for all of what you say to get past his layers of defense. But you can always do little things daily for him too. Maybe leave little love notes on his car. Maybe pack him a lunch. Maybe make his favorite dinner and put it on the doorstep. Those would be little ways for him to remember what he has with you.
Does this give you a direction that you feel comfortable with?
Heidi
Hi Janice!
Thank you for writing in! Your husband is very lucky to have you wanting to fight for him! I’m sorry you are having to go through this. People’s style of living is a very common point of tension. I want to make sure that when you say you want him back, that means he will still have the “hoarder” types of habits. I imagine this will always cause a challenge for the both of you, so it will be CRUCIAL for you guys to find some middle ground here.
Is there maybe a room in your house that can be all his? Or maybe a closet? Since he has such a high need to keep things, you can give him a certain space in the house where he is allowed to put things. Once that is full, he either has to clean it out or stop collecting. Is this a possibility?
As far as your son is concerned, I’m want to guide you to set some boundaries with him. He is stepping into YOUR relationship and it is not his place….and you let him do that, which will instantly make your husband feel ganged up on and not protected by you…and that you are choosing your son over him. So it’s time for you to set a boundary and let your son know that he needs to not interfere…he needs to trust you that you can take care of yourself. I would also recommend to find a different way of communicating what you need. Arguing all the time is draining and will eventually result in what you are currently going through….AND….it’s difficult for your son to hear his mom being unhappy. Can you maybe take discussions into your room and close the door so your son doesn’t have to hear? C
Bottom line here is, your best chance at getting him back to let him know that things are going to be different. If you show him some action that you have taken, then he might believe you. For example, you can let him know that you had a conversation with your son and set a boundary and that you are sorry you did not protect him from your son’s anger. You are learning and want to do better. You can let him know that you are learning better ways to say things so you guys don’t argue as much. It will take some practice, but you want to communicate better. You want to have discussions, not arguments. You can let him know that even though he is more messy than you are, you love him and you want to figure out a way for BOTH of your needs to be met.
Most importantly, let him know why you married him. Let him know all the ways that you appreciate him and that you need him in your life. Despite all the differences and arguments, your life is better with him and you want to fight for him and work on being a better partner for him.
Does all of this make sense? I would also highly recommend reading the “Relationship Rewrite Method” There are some incredible tools in there that could help you along the way as you try to re-design a relationship with him that works well.
Heidi
Hi Joyce,
Wow….I’m so sorry! Of course you are really sad! It hurts terribly when someone sees us a certain way that is actually not true. It hurts even more to support someone so much and then have then turn their backs on us and say some mean things.
Can you offer more detail? Do you know why he would say such things? Has he ever mentioned being unhappy with you?
Heidi
Hi Latisha!
I’m so glad you got to talk for awhile. Can you tell me what your thoughts are about why? Were you light and easy and fun to talk to? That might be a good hint into what helped him open up to you that time. I definitely support Kanya’s guidance. Keep some distance and give him some space still. When you do contact him, keeping everything light and going back to the best friends part can help remind him about the kind of connection you 2 used to have. From what you explained, it sounds like he always felt like he was backed into a corner and always feeling punished about cheating on you. Do helping him feel like you have let that go and that is not your path anymore….will help him feel so much more at ease.
I’m curious…you said you guys had a wonderful relationship. So why do you think he cheated? Did he ever discuss that with you?
Heidi
Hi Natasha,
I would agree that he has a valid concern. I know you said you are not looking for a father for her, but reality is, ANY man in your life is going to play that role. If your daughter is with you and a man is with you, he is in a certain role. The more a guy is in your life, he is in your daughter’s life as well…which means he will be a type of father figure as well. He is 52 and heading towards being a senior. I have been around many people in their 50’s and they are in a space of wrapping up their lives. Finishing things up with work, figuring out new adventures they want to partake in, and faintly looking at senior living….even though they are a long ways away from it, it is in their minds. If he continues to date you, having to deal with a 3 year daughter will DRASTICALLY change his life. You are still very much a young person where is in a different type of phase in his life. If you didn’t have a daughter, I’m sure it would be a completely different story.
I don’t know how to help you other than to validate his feelings. Instead of telling him you are not looking for a father (which invalidates what he is feeling) ask more questions about his fear. Get really curious about his thoughts and feelings. What does he imagine life will be like with you and a 3 year old? Find out more of his deep feelings and really listen to him…validate him and just understand him. He will greatly appreciate that! Once you have more information about his feelings, you can then decide where to go from there.
What are your thoughts?
HeidiHi Debi!
There are a lot of things going on here. It sounds like you have a lot of feelings of rejection and feeling used. I know you expressed it to him, but what was his response exactly? Did you guys RESOLVE it or you just said what you said and went about your way? And if you did resolve it, what was agreed upon? Meaning….what exactly do you need him to do for you to not feel used by him?
Everyone is so different when it comes to technology. When a person says they will call and then they don’t….well that happens quite a bit. If that is his pattern, then it is his pattern. If it was a pattern through the rest of his life, then it might be more of a concern, but it sounds like it only happens with the phone. Is that true or do you find you don’t trust what he says many other times as well?
I would not put too much pressure on him to meet his son. It could mean something or it couldn’t. Everyone is different with their family. I’ve had guys meet my mom pretty quickly sometimes, but it didn’t mean I was going deep and bonding with the guy because he met her. I’m wondering, if you meet his son, what do you think that will mean?
And lastly, when you blame someone for how YOU feel, that is playing the victim. He cannot make you feel something that doesn’t already exist in you. He just is shining the light on that part and activating it, but truth be told, they are YOUR feelings that existed before he came along and that means it is YOUR responsibility to take care of that part of yourself….not his. You are wanting him to change his actions and treat you differently so you can feel better. And frankly, I sure don’t blame you. It makes life sooooo much easier if the other would change! Ha! What if he never changes? What if you keep feeling used and ignored? What if he just is who he is? Would you still choose him?
Hope to hear from you soon!
heidi
Hi Ma D.
Wow….it sounds like there is a lot going on. I want to be able to help you. Can you offer more details?
Has he specifically said how long he has felt this way? Can he pinpoint the reason for him feeling this way to any specific things? How is the rest of his life? Is his work going well? Did he have any recent, major losses?
How do you feel about him? I am wondering….many times we fight for someone because we love them and don’t want to lose them but reality is….it’s not the healthiest relationship, but because we are used to it AND we don’t want to go through the pain of breakup, we end up fighting like crazy. Do you feel very clear about fighting for him? Or do you maybe have a little something inside of you that may feel like it may be a good idea to move on?
You keep saying that you guys can figure this out….how? Do you have a plan or anything tangible that will help you guys work through this sticking point?? If you don’t have a plan of how to go about fixing things, I would recommend coming up with one quickly. Let him see that you want to take action on it vs. just talking about it. It may give him hope enough to try DOING something.
What was the end result of your conversation 4 months ago? You BOTH felt the gap or just him?
Heidi
Hi Melissa!
Great to hear from you again! What narcissists do rarely make sense except to them. His point in parading her around you was probably more about him proving to you how happy he was and that SHE was the source of that….and not you. Reality is, it doesn’t really matter, as the spirit of it is pretty toxic. Good job at wishing them well and leaving it at that. I’m sure you have already learned that the more you play into him and have reactions to what he does, the more it fuels the fire for him.
I’m glad you have met a potential friend online. Nurturing a “friendship” online is a bit more challenging. I would suggest to ask a lot of questions that are really fun in nature. It will help you get to know him in a deeper way without him feeling uncomfortable about it. For example, I love the questions, “If you could design your PERFECT morning, how would go?” I usually go on telling people that they can be anywhere they want, they can have someone with them or not, they have full power to create whatever they want. This question is actually VERY revealing about a person. Here are some things it will tell you about him:
1. whether he is a morning person or not
2. whether he chooses to have someone he gets to wake up with, or not
3. what is his favorite environment (desert, mountains, water, city etc)
4. what his favorite breakfast foods are
5. Does he make breakfast himself or have someone make it for him?
6. does he explain his perfect morning to you with a lot of detail and imagination (a healthier mind and spirit is able to be very imaginative and creative as well as enjoy it) or does he just give short answers and tell a very boring version?I’ve asked that particular question for the past 15 years and it’s fascinating how many different answers I get and how accurate those answers are about telling more about the person. For example, one guy said, “oh…that’s easy….i’d wake up and go surfing” That was it! and that really was the extent of his life at the time. Not my cup of tea. I’ve also had guys say “Wow….you writing a book or something? Why are you asking such a hard question” That obviously told me that their imagination, creativity and depth was definitely NOT at the level that would go well with me. We were not like-minded at all! Then I’ve gotten those creative and fun answers that show someone who is more in alignment with how I work. So when building a friendship online, a question of that nature can really help you learn the deeper parts of someone without them putting walls up or feeling threatened. It stays light, fun and easy.
As far as figuring out how to avoid from seeming opinionated, that is a great practice! It’s usually about how you start and end the message. If you start by just blurting out your opinion and leaving it at that, it can be read very differently than what you mean. A good way to start out would be saying something like, “You know, I’ve thought about this a lot and found that this is how I feel. But at the same time, I also know that I do have a limited point of view.” Or “I do have strong opinions about this. Hopefully it doesn’t seems like I am coming across as too opinionated or overbearing. I would love to hear your very honest thoughts or challenges to what I said. I am always open to someone playing the devil’s advocate with me! It helps me deepen my resolve or realize I had some holes in my opinion. It’s good for me.”
Does this make sense? Besides, anytime you are worried about being misinterpreted, just say so. If you make a comment about feeling like you may have come across as overbearing. You don’t mean to be, you just want to make sure you are not coming across that way as that is not how you feel…..it just softens all of it. The key is, state your opinion, but always invite and encourage an opinion in return and practice softening your delivery a bit.
Does this help?
Heidi
Hi Brittany!
I am a little confused. Is he moved out officially? Are you both still talking to each other? You said that you both decided to work on things again, for the 4th time, but then it sounds like you are broken up again.
So what is the current situation?
I’m sooo glad you finally found someone you feel more safe with. That is a good start. Remember it takes 2 to tango. He is part of the what is happening between the 2 of you as well. I’m glad you are taking responsibility for your own choices, as that is the first place to begin. I would also recommend you reviewing “His Secret Obsession” There are some wonderful guidelines in there to help women understand how a man functions and what works for him. That’s a good place to start.
Heidi
Hi Nikitha,
You are frustrated and I get that. My apologies for saying that you were clingy. I did not have enough evidence to say something like, so please for forgive me.
You are operating under the assumption that many people get caught up in….and that is….that when someone says or does something over and over again, then it must be true. Reality is….it is true only for that moment. The divorce rate being over 50% these days is the perfect example. People do not sit before witnesses and vow “til death do us part” thinking that it will change in the future. They really mean it, feel it and are committed to it IN THAT MOMENT. Reality is, love is not a guarantee. Love and relationships are ALWAYS a risk, even 30 years down the road. What IS a guarantee though….is that life and people are always changing in one way or another. And this is what can be sooooo difficult sometimes because those changes are not what we want and it hurts. I’m sure when he started out getting to know you and wanting to meet you, he was all in and could not predict that he would pull away after 7 months…but something happened to change his attentions. I highly doubt it has anything to do with you….it probably has to do with something else in his life. You may never know, so you can either drive yourself crazy trying to play the guessing game as to what happened (and never get an answer) or you can be direct and get an answer and create closure for yourself….or you can just let the idea of him go, figure out how to be okay not knowing what happened and move on with your life. Again, that is your choice what you feel like dealing with.
How would he know that he could invite you to see him, if he doesn’t even know that you are coming to town?
I truly am so sorry you are going through this. I have been on so many dates and experienced an incredible amount of various situations….and know exactly what you feel like. Guys have completely ghosted in a second and left me hanging, wondering what the heck just happened. All I was left with, was feeling rejected, confused and frustrated because I could not get answers. The gift in all of those very challenging experiences, is that it forced me to find myself again. I could either give them the power to ruin my mood, my day, my self worth OR I could choose healing and let it go and learn how to be okay “not knowing” what happened. It’s hard. Many gifts can be found that way though. Today, having practiced that enough, I am sooooo much more strong and solid. Looking back at those experiences, I can appreciate them now because it contributed A LOT to my inner strength….I am grateful for that.
Keep writing in and expressing your frustrations and questions. I know what I said today may not be what you want to hear nor make you feel better. I hope that at the very least, it helps you connect to a deeper truth that life is always changing and people are always changing and even if you don’t understand the “why” behind what happens, you can still find inner peace if you want.
Heidi
Hi Susan
That is a great question! It’s VERY difficult for a woman to understand how to disconnect from loving someone. Truth be told, men love in a very different way than women….and if he is the type to stay stuck and stubborn in his choices, then he will more likely disregard that he loves you and decide that his reason for staying away is more important. It does not mean that he has stopped loving you. It just means there is something more important to him than loving you and staying connected.
Of course you are heartbroken! It’s horrible, especially when it doesn’t have to be that way! Unfortunately, nothing really changed a man like that. If he is stubborn, then let him be stubborn and work on healing your heart. Give him some distance and let him handle this the way he needs to. Did you text him anything of what I recommended or have you continued to just stay away?
Heidi
Hi Deb,
I first want to validate your suspicion. ANY SMART woman who is aware would have some of the same thoughts you are having. Your last husband has just helped you become more hyperaware. Yes, there is baggage mixed in there too, but even I would have some suspicions. One of the best ways to catch someone lying is watching and paying attention to their patterns. When a pattern changes, then something has happened and deserves some investigation. All this is, is a suspicion. It is not true or untrue. What is important is that you don’t go crazy making up stories in your head about what is happening. You don’t know anything yet to confirm or deny your suspicion. So maybe you can ask him directly, “You know….I loved that you were fantasizing about me. However, you have NEVER said anything like that to me before. What happened yesterday that you all of a sudden said that?” Then maybe tell him that you liked it and would like to hear more things like that from him. And just watch how he reacts. Keep paying attention to pattern changes. And bottom line, you can always do some investigation to find out the bottom line truth. You can hire someone, you can have a friend follow him, you can put a gps tracker in his car. Sometimes, it is better to get a solid answer, sooner than later, just to put your mind at ease….one way or the other. Or you can wait it out and keep watching for signs of something amiss. Eventually, IF he is seeing someone else, it will eventually show up.
I’m glad he responded super well to you cutting back on the financial end of things. That is a great sign that he could be interested in more than your money.
How do you know he was texting you from a café? Has he ever had an anxiety attack before? Did he tell you what it was about or what triggered it?
Heidi
Hi Nikitha,
Man I feel your struggle. I want to encourage you to NOT make up stories about what he is doing. Reality is, you just don’t know. Our minds naturally want to create stories about a person’s behaviors, but that is a VERY dangerous game to play. You are having BIG emotional reactions to a STORY you are making up in your head. You are spending so much energy and “going crazy” not knowing.
Since you want to wait until December, then your practice will be more about letting go and letting him take the driver’s seat. Do everything you can to stop making up stories and guessing how he is feeling. Align with your decision to wait until December. That means, be at peace with your choice and stop guessing about ALL of it. Let it be what it is. Anytime you start to go a little crazy, find a way to ground yourself again and get back to YOUR center. You have given him so much power that it is influencing how you feel every single day. So your goal here…is to take back that power and get centered. You do not know that you will be okay if he disconnects completely. You do not know that you are worth fighting for and worth loving if he doesn’t choose you. You are putting your self esteem in his hands as if HE is the one that defines your value. It’s actually a very common thing amongst the ladies, so I just want to shed light on it. Use this very powerful time of waiting, to find yourself again. Find your value, your worth and love yourself more and more. Know that you are worth choosing and fighting for, whether he chooses you or not. When you can get THAT place, there will be soooooo much less hurt, anxiety and fear around him and your home visit. I guarantee you, if you can find that place inside yourself, he will notice and may even be more attracted to you. He may feel you clinging to him and that is a big turn off for many men.
Do you ever meditate? Do you have a religion or spiritual practice? Are there any self help books you are attracted to? Or maybe a person you like to follow that is encouraging and helps you connect back into the truth of who you are?
You can let him know that you are coming home. Just text him a week before you visit. You can say, “Hey….I’m coming home on __________ and leaving _____________.” It would be nice to see you if you have the time. If not, no worries. I know things have changed between us the past month or so and that’s okay. Regardless, you still are someone I have enjoyed getting to know, so even grabbing a cup of coffee or a drink would be great!”
Saying something to this affect will help him relax a bit. My thought is, if you acknowledge something has changed AND show that you are okay about it, it will help him be more willing to meet. Otherwise, he may want to hide from you so he doesn’t get yelled at or see your hurt feelings. But if you make it cozy, easy and light, he will probably be more willing to say yes. THEN, when you meet up, you can have whatever conversation is needed to make sure you get onto the same page again.
How do you feel about this approach?
Heidi
