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  • in reply to: Dating for five months. Things are changing #37283
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Ooooooh noooo! Oh Cindi! I’m so sad! You must be so heartbroken!!

    What happened?

    in reply to: Miss my joe anyone can help me not sure when to talk #37236
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Celia,

    I’m so sorry. We don’t have a DM platform. This forum is the only way to talk about your questions and your situation. You can stay completely anonymous though. We have no idea who you are. People make up names all the time on here. And 99% of the time, other people are not engaging with other people’s threads. It’s just you and me here.

    Heidi

    in reply to: Dating for five months. Things are changing #37235
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Cindi,

    Did you send him the text that YOU wrote above? Or did you send the text that I suggested?

    I sent him the text and he hasn’t responded. Now I feel like he’s punishing me for asking for space to deal with my emotions in a healthy way. You don’t know this. He may just be staying silent, because he doesn’t know what to say or how to respond. The thing you have to really get into your mind is YOUR FEELINGS ARE NOT FACTS!!!! I can’t tell you how important this is for you to grasp. Your mind made up this story that he is punishing, when there is ZERO evidence of that. There could be A LOT of reasons he is not responding. It’s normal for our minds to take over and make ups these stories based purely on guesses, so when I do that, I stop that story and connect myself to the facts. The facts are…YOU DO NOT KNOW why he isn’t responding…end of story.

    And I was married to a man who made me feel responsible for his feelings 24/7 for 10 years. This is making more sense now. You engaged in this pattern of feeling responsible for your ex husband’s feelings for 10 years! And now the guy you are dating is saying the same exact thing to you. You are on the other side of this pattern now…which is a REALLY good thing! It is helping you become more aware of this particular pattern and what it feels like. You KNOW EXACTLY how your guy now is feeling, because you did it for 10 years. And now, you know exactly what your ex husband was doing, because you are doing the same thing he did. I’ve done that MANY times over the years with my unhealthy patterns…I lived on BOTH the giving and receiving side and it brought me soooooo much understanding!

    That’s the best way I know how to describe how it made me feel. It made me feel silenced and out of the loop. Were these wrong feelings to have? Your feelings are NEVER wrong. What you need to understand is that feelings are never right or wrong. The purpose of your feelings is to teach you about your SELF. You have used some KEY words in all of your feelings you have described here that have a theme: Betrayal, silenced, I don’t matter etc. These feelings are all the same flavor. And what that tells you is that are some pretty big wounds you are carrying around that have this flavor to them…and it began WAAAAAAYYYYY before you ever experienced your ex husband and those non-committal guys. It’s this baggage that you are carrying around that caused you to pick those experiences in the first place. It’s this baggage that is causing you to get upset to the level you are, with this current guy. So your feelings are letting you know what lives within YOU and what is sourcing your insecurities. Look back to your childhood. Who taught you that you didn’t matter? Who taught you that your voice was not important? Who betrayed your trust and made you feel unsafe?

    Now…it doesn’t mean that your feelings are completely invalid here due to HIS response as well. He is PARTLY contributing to the feeling of unsafely here. But there are A LOT of dynamics happening and unless I was able to talk with BOTH of you, I can’t tell you all that is happening. All I can do, is try to help you take a step back and look at all the possibilities. The first question I ask about someone else’s response to me is “How much am I causing them to feel this way because of how I presented my feelings vs. how much of how they feel is coming from their own roundedness?” So…he probably did put you in a box in the corner and is telling you to stay…but why? I can tell you that it’s quite normal for a guy to have that type of response with a woman who he feels is asking too much from him. So when a person feels cornered or pressured, it’s VERY normal for them to put up stronger boundaries….and that may be why you feel him putting you in the corner. Imagine a dog that has been beaten over and over and over again with a stick. His owner traps him in the corner and beats him with it and tries to fight off the owner by trying to bite him or fight back somehow. Then animal rescue gets called and the dog gets taken away and put with a new owner. This new owner takes the dog out to play in the backyard, picks up a stick with the intent to play with him and see if the dog likes to play fetch, but the dogs INSTANTLY becomes terrified and aggressive. This is what it’s like for people too…we get programmed where our feelings, our thoughts, our bodies don’t matter to adults who are caring for us. Our boundaries get crossed over and over and over again as children and dysfunction gets created. Then as adults, we have a romantic partner INNOCENTLY wanting to connect with us, but the signals they are sending off, completely get misinterpreted and we become that fearful dog, even though there is nothing to be afraid of…but our system DOES NOT know that. So again, his response of putting you in the corner, JUST BECAUSE you want to be close (which is a good thing, right), but something in his system reacts to that intimacy with fear…and he is doing what that dog would do…reacting in a way to protect him…even though there actually is no threat. That’s why feelings are not right or wrong and they definitely are NOT the facts. Feelings are just SYMPTOMS of what programs, beliefs, low self-esteem and stories you are carrying in your subconscious.

    What the new dog owner needs to do, is NOT take it personally that their new dog is afraid of the stick. The new owner needs to understand what the fear is about and take some time to help re-program their dog and create a new story around the stick. The stick represent play now, NOT a beating. It’s going to take some time, so patience is needed. Compassion is needed. Understanding is needed. And that’s how we need to treat each other. Whatever fear he has living in him, it’s valid. Someone taught him to be afraid. He hasn’t processed out those fears and wounds from his past and he doesn’t know how. The same is true for you too. Most people have no clue to how to help themselves or what is happening beneath the surface of their feelings, so they just do the best they can, until they learn a new way to go about it. You and this guy are EXACTLY the same. You BOTH have baggage that is being activated by each other’s feelings and words and you BOTH are trying to figure out how to move through this. You at least are here to get some help and hear another a perspective. WELL DONE!!! Most people don’t do that. He has no clue how to handle what he is feeling, so what else can he do except to try and protect himself by putting up walls and becoming less connective.

    So the way to help someone through that, is to get them out of their fear/protect response. You do that by backing off. Give them space to breathe. Give them space to feel what they need to. Be soft, supportive, and encouraging. Validate how they feel. Have compassion about how they feel. Learn and be curious about how they feel. And if they still just don’t come around and decide to stay open for navigating the speed bumps differently, then that is something you need to know about them. If he is going to let this fear run his life, then there is nothing you can do about that. He will be a guy who will ALWAYS keep a woman at arm’s length, despite wanting to fall in love. The love he has to offer will ALWAYS be limited, as long as that fear stays within him. So…you then have a choice to make. Do you want to engage and continue connecting with a man who is not willing to face his fears? Do you want to keep fighting for a guy who won’t fight for himself? Do you want to hand your heart over to someone who is emotionally available only up to a certain point? Eventually, your heart will start to feel lonely and starving for connection. But maybe you need to go through that again, to finally decide to not engage in this pattern anymore. So far, every guy you have been in relationship with, is the same exact pattern. They all are emotionally limited. They all are NOT able to offer you unconditional, expansive, nourishing love and connection – even in the worst moments. This guy may be the same…he may or may not come around. What YOU need to pay attention to, is yourself. How long are you going to engage in HIS design? How long are you going to wait for him to come around? How long are you going to fight for a guy who tends to run when his fears come up?

    Heidi

    in reply to: Dating for five months. Things are changing #37221
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Cindi!

    I’m soooooo so glad you sent this for me to read. Good job for writing of this out for yourself. It’s good to give your words and thoughts freedom like this! Well done!

    It is NOT an appropriate message to send. It’s confusing, it has a flavor of resentment and the ONLY thing it will accomplish is him putting more walls up and instantly pushing him away. It is not an inviting, open message. It’s an upset message coming from your feeling of betrayal. You are pointing the finger at him and telling him he is behaving like a 21 year old instead of looking at this speed bumps as BOTH of you working TOGETHER bits at a time. You don’t like his 21 year old behavior, right? Well this letter is your 21 year old getting upset because she isn’t getting what she wants from him. So you BOTH have young parts of yourself, operating from wounds and upsets.

    First and foremost…make is RULE that you DO NOT text about serious matters of the heart. It’s dangerous. It’s sooooo so easy for things to be mis-interpreted which can escalate arguments so fast. So sending your feelings over text message is NOT good. Save it for a real conversation so he can see you and feel you and you BOTH can address things that are said, IN THE MOMENT. If this relationship is going to last, you both have to learn how to work together through these messy spots IN PERSON.

    Look at these statements:
    He told me that I need to take care of myself, and I agreed, but also said I have a lot going on because I’m homeschooling a kid and watching a toddler all day when they’re not with their dad.
    I also told him id like him to take better care of himself, rather than trying to treat his body like it’s immortal – like complaining that he’s worn out, and then kayaking for four days in a row and not eating properly. He agreed that I was right.

    Do you see how you BOTH are pointing the finger at the other telling the other how they should be taking care of themselves? Do you see how you BOTH are mothering the other? Why is this even being discussed? You guys are adults. You both know the consequences of how you take care of yourselves. It shouldn’t even be a discussion at this point. HE GETS TO WARE HIMSELF OUT!!! YOU GET TO BE BUSY WITH YOUR KIDS!!! Leave each other alone. Remember how I said relationships are 3 parts? You, him, and the relationship. With these statements, you are focusing on him directly and not the relationship and he is focusing on you directly, and not the relationship. Treat each other as grown adults who know what they are doing. He KNOWS he is waring himself out and chooses to do it anyways. You can talk about how that is affecting the relationship itself, but to tell him he has to do better, is mothering him…and vice versa. Does this make sense?

    Part of me is angry that he decided all of this without me and didn’t seem interested in my thoughts. He didn’t decide anything without you. I understand that the feeling of betrayal got activated for you, but again, HE didn’t make you feel betrayed. He cannot activate the energy of betrayal in you, unless it was already there inside of you. This feeling is about you. You are wanting to point the finger at him and get mad that he doesn’t know what he wants for his future yet, but the truth is, this relationship is still soooooo new. Why would he know what he wants with you in a year, or 5 years??? It takes TIME to build trust and safety and learn that you guys can work through the sticky spots together….or not. You are asking for a long term commitment from a guy who is scared (most are – it’s normal) and has a higher level of fear. So what that he ran to his friend! Good for him! I love that he has a friend he can go talk to. And ABSOLUTELY NOT should he have come to you first. He went to his friend, just like you are coming here to talk with me, to gain perspective…to vent and say and feel things that might be damaging for you to hear. We ALL need a safe space outside of our partners to talk about our challenges. Who cares who he goes to first, as long as he eventually gets to you. He obviously is operating from A LOT of fear, so it took him a while for him to circle back to you. This is your first big sticking point, so give yourselves a break. You both are still learning about each other and are facing a potential deal breaker…those are difficult to navigate because of all the feelings flying around from being triggered.

    YOUR FEELINGS ARE NOT THE FACTS!!!! He did not betray you. What a person says in one moment, can easily change once fear or anger or hurt enter the picture. In the beginning, he was open and absolutely wanting the deep, connective long term love. But now that he is being faced with the beginning of building it, his fear is coming up like crazy. THIS IS NORMAL!!! The choice he needs to make is whether or not he is going to let that fear sabotage his connection with you (which sadly is the common choice) or face his fears and keep moving forward with you. So he did not betray you. Fear entered the picture and changed his mind…which it ALWAYS does. He is having a very normal response to fear.

    His feelings of fear are not the facts either. So basically what is happening here, is you BOTH keep triggering each other and it’s only leading to more disconnect vs. connection. You guys are trying to solve this thing, but keep missing each other somehow. Here is the analogy I like to use. When BOTH people are operating from their triggers, it’s like 2 active tornadoes interacting with each other and trying to find the peace and calm. It will never happen that way. One person NEEDS to stop being a tornado and become the ground. The ground is stable, consistent, calm and a place for the tornado to stay connected to and eventually, the tornado dissipates. THEN you guys can actually start to problem solve. So being that he is not going to budge and face his fears, YOU need to decide to become the ground and let him wrestle with his fears the way he wants to. You stay consistent, calm, grounded and centered and eventually, he will start to feel safe with you again.

    Here is the thing though Cindi. I know you want to work this out with him, but it’s also important that you REALLY observe how he is handling all of this. He is the best kind of man you have ever experienced up to this point. That DOES NOT mean that he is a good partner when the chips are down. The red flag I am seeing here (from what you are telling me) is that he is wanting things to be HIS way. YOU are the one who needs to adjust, not him. And this is a problem. This is the kind of mindset that causes relationships to break. So…I always tell people, of course you get to keep building connection with this person, but just know what you are walking into. Know that you are building a relationship with a guy who has a tendency to care more about his own feelings and experience than yours. It won’t last. Trust and safety will break over and over and over again, and eventually, even the good and wonderful things that brought you guys together in the first place, are ruined.

    You have some things to work on within yourself as well. You cannot expect nor ask that he faces his fears when you are not willing to do the same thing. You are feeling betrayed, fooled, angry, frustrated…all of which have made a home within you BEFORE he ever came along. So it’s about learning that your triggers are YOUR story and YOUR responsibility to face and work with, not his…and vice versa. That’s what makes an amazing connection grow and sustain over long periods of time.

    So for now, I suggest to just give him space and keep giving yourself space as you navigate your feelings on your own. Where have you felt betrayed before in your life? Where have you felt left behind before? Where have you felt like you didn’t matter?

    And I would write him this: “Hi babe. I will be honest that there are a lot of things we talked about that brought up some of my fear and insecurities. I have some things to face within myself. It’s not YOUR responsibility, it’s mine. What I do know is this….I love you. I know we have hit a speed bump and we are still learning about each other. It’s good for us. I think what is best for now, is that we both understand it’s a bit of a bumpy road right now, so how about we just focus on 1 thing…small things often. That’s it. Let’s just take a break, focus day to day, not bring the future into the equation, and just figure out how we can navigate this busy season of yours in a better way.”

    Thoughts?

    Heidi

    and p.s. I have an INCREDIBLE coach who you might consider working with. She will help you process all of your feelings in a healthy way. We can talk all we want Cindi, but it doesn’t make your feelings of betrayal or upset go away. I wish all it took were words, but that’s just not how it works. You need some help releasing all that stuff you are carrying around inside. If you want her info, let me know and I will email it to you.

    in reply to: Finding the right words #37215
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Heidi!

    I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you are here learning, so you can set yourself up for success moving forward.

    I have a lot of suggestions for you, but what I DON”T want to happen, is you learning a “formula” for what you can say. That is your MIND taking over. Connection requires heart. Gratitude requires heart. Compliments require heart.

    It sounds like the last guy you dated, wanted to FEEL your words…he wanted more of your heart to come through. Here is a great example I just don’t really know what to say except “that’s great that your work helps people”.. I’m not sure how to gush on about it.. When you say “that’s great that your work helps people” it’s definitely a thought you expressed, NOT a feeling. That statement says NOTHING about how you FEEL about his work. There is nothing of YOU in that statement. It’s a distant statement that has nothing personal about YOU in it. You don’t need to gush, you just need to make it more personal. Here is a different way you could have said it where your heart would have come through more…”I really love and respect the work you are doing. You are helping a lot of people and it’s such a beautiful thing!” See how this is more personal? You bring HIM into your compliment by telling him you love and respect what he does. You bring yourself into this compliment by being a bit more specific about what you love and respect and calling it beautiful…that’s a heart word. Do you see how these are the same exact compliments but one is coming from the mind and one is coming from the heart?

    Compliments, Both receiving and giving, are the SAME exact thing. You need to access your heart…your feelings. So when I get a compliment, I used to reject them, then I healed more and I moved into saying “thank you” instead of rejecting them, and as I healed even more, I now FULLY receive compliments and they go ALL THE WAY into my heart and feels sooooo amazing. When someone is giving you a compliment, it’s like they are giving you a present. If you open that present and just say “thank you” it makes it not very fun to give that gift. When you give someone a present, you want THEM to be excited and you want them to feel SOMETHING about that present you gave them, right? So…when I receive a compliment, I make sure that I let that person know how it made me FEEL, so they know I heard them and I LOVE the gift they just gave me. I might say something like “Wow. What a beautiful thing you just said. That really made me feel good! Thank you for saying that!” or “What a wonderful compliment you just gave me. That felt really good to hear. Thank you!” or “I really appreciate you saying that! I struggle a lot with this part of myself, so you telling me that, is actually really impactful and helpful for me. Thank you!” Again, you want the other person to know that the gift they just gave you, had an impact on you somehow. It’s NOT about the words, because you could literally repeat everything I just said and it will not be enough. It’s about opening your HEART to let the compliment in and letting yourself FEEL the impact of it. It’s about the energy you offer in return, not the words. Does this make sense?

    So that leads me into wondering why you are so dominant in using your mind to navigate connection, instead of your heart. Typically, that just means there is a lot of wounding that put walls up around the heart. Or…it might just be your personality. For example, most engineers or dominant left brain, so they have a much more difficult time accessing their heart and being in intimate, close relationships.

    As a female, it would mean you accessing your feminine, nurturing, connective side. Tell me about that side of yourself. Do you feel comfortable being soft, vulnerable, nurturing, open and in a “receiving” kind of energy?

    Heidi

    in reply to: Miss my joe anyone can help me not sure when to talk #37214
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Celia,

    Welcome! Would you mind sharing more about your situation? What is happening that you guys broke up? Are you saying you haven’t talked in 2 months? How long were you together?

    Heidi

    in reply to: Dating for five months. Things are changing #37213
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    This is great! You guys had a very honest conversation!!! Well done! I know it’s not everything you wanted to hear, but that’s okay. He is still wanting to stay connected with you, so that keeps things moving forward.

    We talked about how to be there for each other and give each other what we need while also providing space. Great! What did you guys come up with? What did YOU ask for and what did HE ask for? Do you feel clear about how to move forward? Do you feel he understood your experience as well?

    He said that I spooked him when I asked if he wanted me living with him eventually and I shared how it made me feel. He said he’d felt responsible for my feelings and my time lately and that with that and being spooked that he didn’t feel as safe. Okay. So it sounds like there is something much deeper going on with him. He “felt responsible” for you and that is HIS issue, not yours. He has some deeper programming going on in his subconscious that causes him to “feel responsible” in the first place. I’m wondering if maybe his mother set up that program for him when he was a child. The truth is, even if YOU were reacting in way where you were expecting him to take care of you, he played a part in that design. He could easily have NOT engaged in that energy. For example, I dated a guy for a bit who felt like I was not affectionate enough with him. No matter how many times I explained to him that it takes time for me to allow someone into my physical space and that trust and safety needed to be established, it didn’t make sense to him. He NEEDED more affection from me to feel more secure in our connection. Although his need was coming from an unhealthy, wounded place and he wanted to put that on me, I just didn’t engage. I felt ZERO responsibility for his roundedness, insecurities, and how he functioned with them. “Feeling responsible” for anyone’s feelings is NOT a program I have in my system, so it doesn’t get activated. But your guy DOES have that program. It’s not YOUR responsibility to fix it. He obviously got triggered when you mentioned moving in at some point, which tells you how much that “feeling responsible” program is running in his system. His response is showing you where some of his “fault lines” (the cracks in our system) live. You are learning about HIS triggers. This is about you not feeling responsible for him either. His reaction is his to deal with, just like you need to deal with yours. Does this help bring some clarity into why he reacted the way he did? There are more layers I can help explain, if you feel you want deeper understanding.

    I know he said he never wants to get married again. This may or may not be true. Who knows. He may change his mind at some point, but he may not. You need to be accepting of his choice. If your need to get married is a non-negotiable for you, then you need to either shift your need, or break it off. He is being VERY clear about this and it’s your job to accept this about him. How do you feel about this?

    I asked him if he thought he needed some space and time to figure out what he needed from our relationship, and he said no, that he just needs to feel like he’s not responsible for me. I’m not really sure what this means for HIM. Did you get clarity on this? What does he need differently from you for him to not feel responsible for you? This is a bit tricky, because in reality, he is asking YOU to do for him, what he is not willing to do for himself. In essence, he is making YOU responsible for helping him feel better, all the while telling you he does not want to feel responsible for you. Do you see how mixed up that is? He is NOT operating from a clear space and does not understand how he is doing to you EXACTLY what he is asking you NOT to do to him. Of course, he has no clue he is doing that, but that’s just because he doesn’t know himself that well.

    Relationships are 3 components. You, him and the connection. So if someone were to say “I don’t want to feel responsible for you” I would say I don’t want that either, BUT…I do require that our connection is taken care of. I do require that this entity called a relationship, is cared for by you. It’s like a plant….it has life and NEEDS water if it’s going to stay alive. If he doesn’t water the plant, then he cannot expect that it somehow will stay alive and keep growing. So while he doesn’t want to feel responsible for you, he still needs to contribute to feeding, nourishing, and taking care of the relationship somehow. If he doesn’t even want to do that, then he is NOT ready for anything deeper or connective and is emotionally unavailable. He cannot expect to water his plant all the time and then when summer hits, he just stops watering it because he’s busy. He may water it less and you need to water it a bit more, but he still needs to participate in watering it….no exception. He cannot let work completely overtake his life to the point that you become this side thought to him. That’s not okay and that is way out of balance and is damaging to the connection.

    So I’m not sure where things were left off with you guys. I’m not sure if I helped you with the uneasy feeling you have. From what you said, it’s pretty normal to feel uneasy, because he feels like he is 1 foot out the door and that doesn’t feel good. Let’s keep talking this through!

    Heidi

    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Were these HIS words or are you guessing how he felt?

    And I need clarity about the living situation. Were you talking about moving in together already?

    Also, I’m curious what you think it means to be “needy.” Obviously you have a fear around that for some reason. How come? Is that something you have been told about yourself?

    It also seems like you have this need to be “perfect.” Would you agree with that? I say that because you said this: I want to find a way back in, but I don’t want to do all the wrong things wrt to getting an ex back. Anytime someone has a need to do the “right” thing or a fear of doing the “wrong” thing…means they are trying to be EXACTLY what they are supposed to be and do, in order to get what they want/need. The problem with this thinking, is it’s not realistic and nor is it how you approach relationship. I understand you want to get this guy back, but in the end, if he is not able to accept you WITH ALL OF YOUR FEARS AND BLUNDERS, then there is a MUCH BIGGER issue here. In the end, you want to be love for EXACTLY who you are…your imperfections, your insecurities, your mistakes, your hurts…. ALL OF IT.

    I understand you want to avoid doing the “wrong” things. Everybody does. But a more powerful way to look at this is “What are different ways I can approach this, that can help us reconnect?” You can try various ways to approach trying to re-connect with him, but like I previously said…in the end…if he is not able to accept you for who you are, then he is NOT a good match for you and the relationship will be fundamentally flawed and broken and will not last, no matter how much you care for him.

    My point being….be okay just being yourself, even if it’s messy. When we show up messy and make blunders, it’s helps us learn about ourselves, where we are insecure, where our fears live, where we feel the need to control…and all of these things give us the opportunity for growth and becoming better partners. Even with everything that I know about relationships and the “right” things to do, I mess up and always will. I’m okay with it though. It’s just part of relationship and connection and the best I can do is accept my messiness, love myself through it, and if it’s a dealbreaker for my guy, then it is what it is. I am always just doing the best I can, and if it’s not enough for someone else, there is nothing I can do about that, as that is about THEIR journey, not mine.

    Does this make sense?

    Heidi

    in reply to: Dating for five months. Things are changing #37203
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Yayayaya! Well done! I have no doubt that it helped him breathe just a little easier!

    I know he doesn’t know how you can help him, so that can be a conversation you have with him. He doesn’t even know what you are willing to do. So…your short talk could go something like this…”I want to help support you through this season and I know you have no clue how I can do that, but I have some ideas and you can let me know what works and what doesn’t work for you….I can help with weekly household chores, I can help by cooking you a batch of food for the week, I can help by taking your kids for a weekly outing so you can have some alone time etc…” A good question to ask him would be “what can you delegate to me that will help give you more time and make your day or week easier?” If he just doesn’t have anything, then respect his choice and make sure you leave the door open for him to change his mind. Sometimes, it can take guys a bit of processing time. So even if he says he doesn’t need your help, keep checking in every once in a while and see if there is something you can do. Also, you keep watch in the sense of hearing what daily tasks stress him out or where he feels behind, and maybe those are tasks he can delegate to you, but he doesn’t want to ask you or doesn’t think to ask you. Keep REMINDING him that you want to be his TEAMMATE and that right now, he needs some extra help and that allowing you to help is actually going to meet your needs of feeling more connected to him, because YOU will feel part of a team WITH him. He needs to understand that you WANT to help. Even those small, annoying tasks, like laundry will help you feel like you matter to him, as opposed to him just trying to fit you into his schedule when he can.

    And make sure that you communicate to him what you need in return…which is his acknowledgment and appreciation. So you would say something like “As your teammate and as we navigate this together, if I am going to be doing these things for you on a weekly basis for a while, what I will need in return, is to feel like you appreciate me. It could be through your words of affection, it could be just saying Thank you, I really appreciate your help, it could be gifting me a massage, it could be giving me a passionate, long kiss letting me know that I matter….these small things will help continue to fill me up as I support you while you get through this busy season of yours.”

    Does this help?

    Now….I do want to also talk about your insecurities that got activated when he pulled away and how you handled it. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you have acknowledged that you over-reacted. That’s the first step. The next step is to start to deep dive into your reaction, because you will over react again and again and again, until you work on the core issue that is being activated. This is what breaks relationships…people do not work more deeply on their triggers and how they handle them, and apologies become a moot point, because your partner will know it’s just going to happen again.

    You said this is the first time you have been treated like a princess. I LOVE that you get to have this experience! And….the fact that it’s the first time, tells me you have chosen a lot of lower functioning men…which tells me there is a part of you, when it comes to love, that carries a lot of low self-esteem, that you would allow yourself to be treated so poorly. Let’s really think about this….someone who has high standards and a lot of high self-esteem, would not tolerate, on any level, to be disrespected or treated poorly…so being treated like a princess is the MINIMUM standard and common. Personally, this is how I have gotten to experience dating. I EXPECTED to be treated well, so that is exactly what I got most of the time. And if it swayed away from that, even in the challenging moments, they wouldn’t get to stay connected to me. I, of course, treat them with the same level of respect and value as well. So while it’s amazing that you get to experience this from a man, it needs to be just the BASELINE requirement, not the end all be all to him being your soulmate. I’m not saying he isn’t of course….I’m just saying that just because he treats you like this, DOES NOT mean that he is THAT great. He absolutely could be – I don’t know – but to give a guy THAT kind of status, requires MUCH MORE than being treated like a princess…that’s actually the easiest thing a guy has to do to earn that status.

    Here is an analogy I like to use. Imagine you have been walking in the desert for days and days and you are BEYOND thirsty. Then all of a sudden, a man shows up and offers you all the water you want. You are soooooooooo crazed for water, you just drink it and think it’s the MOST AMAZING water you have EVER tasted. You are BEYOND GRATEFUL for this man helping you and giving you exactly what you have needed for so long. He looks and feels “angelic” to you.

    The problem with this, is you are in sooooooo much scarcity that you don’t even THINK to check what is in the water and the pay attention to the person that is giving it to you. ANYONE in scarcity like that would NOT check. It’s a normal human response. BUT…the problem is, many times that water is toxic and harmful, but when you are in such scarcity, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to get yourself to say NO to that water. Anything is better than nothing, right?

    I can’t tell you how many times I have heard say some variation of “I’ve never been treated like this before! He is the first one to treat me like a princess. He actually compliments me and is so romantic and the sex is the best I’ve ever had….” Anytime I hear “It’s the first time ever….” I know how powerful that experience is for them. And 100% of the time, the thing they think makes their guy SOOOOOO AMAZING, is actually a fundamental, baseline quality, and how they should have been treated their entire lives. But that takes me back to this….that new experience of “being treated like a princess” is soooooo powerful, that is causes blinders and I watch them negotiate away the BIG RED FLAGS that are tell tale signs that a heart break is imminent…i.e. the water they are drinking is actually toxic and harmful.

    I’m telling you this, because I am hearing the same tone from you. Again, I am NOT AT ALL saying this guy is giving you toxic water or is unhealthy in any particular way….only time will tell. I’m just saying that what you value about him, although amazing and beautiful, needs to be baseline and NOT the end all be all for you.

    I hope this is making sense. My goal is to help keep you grounded more in the truth and how relationships function and help you connect to YOUR perspectives and experiences, so that you also DO NOT end up negotiating away the red flags you come across, just so you can keep being treated like a princess. It’s an incredibly powerful thing for all woman…BUT…if you start to strengthen your self-esteem and release the hurts from your past, THEN you become more internally strong, your standards become stronger and higher, and being treated like a princess will become a requirement – so much so, that you would rather be alone than to be treated any other way.

    I hope I’m getting this concept across in the way that I intend. Trying to type it all out is tough! LOL. I’m used to teaching this to women live and allowing for their questions, so bear with me. If any of this is confusing or hits you in an uncomfortable way, talk to me about it.

    I’d love to talk about what was happening for you, that you were choosing men who didn’t treat you well. Who in your life, contributed to your low standards and low self esteem?

    Heidi

    in reply to: Dating for five months. Things are changing #37189
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Cindi!

    Good job for getting a book and being willing to educate yourself more. I hope it helps!

    Let me break this down for you. First and foremost, he is in survival mode. When anyone is in that mode, asking for anything from them beyond what they are offering will cause them to feel more stress and more tapped out. So your needs of wanting him to give you more right now, are not appropriate. He just doesn’t have it in him. It doesn’t have anything to do with you. It has to do with him not setting proper boundaries for himself to keep himself more in balance. Why he does that, I don’t know, but it IS something to pay attention. This may be an unusual thing or it may be a pattern he does every summer. Something for you to explore.

    The other thing to DEEPLY understand, is that men (in general) are so much more work oriented compared to relationship oriented. Women are the exact opposite. We are much more relationship oriented more than work oriented. We are just built differently. That is why women are the relationship caretakers and men are the providers (generally speaking). When a man gets tapped out, stressed about his job, unsure about his job or any flavor of that, it is VERY NORMAL for them to pull away and become less connective. I have seen it over and over and over again. They get sooooo caught up in trying to produce (which is their instinct) that their relationships tend to go down the toilet. So how your guy is behaving is within the NORMAL range of how most men would handle his situation. Does it make it right or okay? Of course not. What we women need to do is first….DO NOT TAKE IT PERSONAL. And then, our job, as the the relationship caretaker – just like your heart is expressing in this statement I wish I knew how to be there for him, but I don’t and he says he doesn’t know what he needs and his head is a mess is to GENTLY pull them towards us to allow us to support them. What he NEEDS from you, is for you to take a backseat for just a bit. Meaning, he is in extreme overwhelm and needs help, NOT a woman who is needy. But the funny thing is about this is, although you are going to take a backseat for a bit, your needs will actually get met in this design as well. REMEMBER…this design is only temporary, NOT a permanent way to function in relationship.

    How to support him is NOT by saying anything specific, but BEING something specific. Your guy’s head is a mess, so YOU need to represent that relaxing, supportive place he can connect into, to give himself a break. You are the respite from his hectic life right now. Right now, he sees you as a form of stress because he knows you are not happy and he feels like a failure which is why he keeps apologizing. So you need to change that. It means that you are going to have to take care of him MORE by being extra supportive right now. What does that look like?

    NOT getting mad when he cancels the date. Sending him those wonderful, connective text messages throughout the day, and NOT getting upset if he doesn’t respond to you in the way you want. It means maybe dropping dinner or lunch off for him. It means maybe showing up late to his house and giving him a head massage or foot rub. It means leaving little written notes in his wallet where he will find it by surprise. It means hiring a house cleaner to clean his house. It means maybe going over to his place and doing his laundry. It means helping him out with his kids and giving him a little extra time to himself. It means buying him a massage. These are ALL things that ADD TO his life and support him in some sort of way. So your job is to figure out how you can help him. What can you do to make his life easier? What type of task can you do FOR HIM that will give him just a few more minutes of time? What can you do to help him relax a little more…even if for 10 minutes? And all the while, he will feel supported and like you are a gold mine that he wants to take care of in return. It might be a simple thank you, it might be that when you are giving him a foot run, he opens up to you about how stressed he feels, it might be that over enough time, he all of a sudden feels like can do EVERYTHING now, because he has your help. You need to feel like his TEAMMATE and not one more thing he has to take care of. When someone feels like they have a teammate, it strengthens them…and in return, hopefully they will be organically and naturally be more connective.

    So what I suggest is that you table your need for reassurance. That is your own insecurity that you can work on yourself. He doesn’t have the capacity right now to try and fix you, when he is in survival mode. So how about shifting your purpose and instead of talking about what’s not working (which will just add to his stress) you spend that time trying to fill him back up, which will fill you back up naturally. If you guys were planning on a few hours to talk, plan something nourishing for him instead…a couples massage followed by dinner and sex or a picnic in the park…he loves nature, so get him in nature.

    I feel like trying this approach FIRST, might actually end up helping you get BOTH your needs and his needs met at the same time. If this approach doesn’t work, THEN it would be time to have a little chat with him about how to navigate this differently.

    So again, no talking. Just show him how much you love him, value him, and become that beautiful soft pillow and cozy warm blanket that he gets to look forward to. Use this phrase to guide you: small things often. What small things can you do often for him? It sounds like he is the kind of guy who will deeply appreciate that. And then when you keep filling him up, eventually he will have more to offer you.

    Thoughts on this?

    Heidi

    in reply to: Finding the right words #37167
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Heidi!

    I love that you are here asking for some help. Well done! We ALL have areas of weakness, but the smart ones resource themselves, which is exactly what you are doing.

    I’m wondering if you have trouble communicating just your feelings, or is it a common pattern that spreads to other areas of your life? I’m also curious about how you do end up communicating. Does it just not come out right and you feel misunderstood a lot? Do you just have a tendency to not say things at all, because you are afraid? Do you know where your challenge with communication comes from?

    As far as the specific categories you are asking about, it’s hard to offer ideas without more specific examples. For example, what are you specifically wanting to trigger with your questions? Compliments, appreciation and gratitude are pretty simple. Saying something like, “I love how you….” “I really notice how you do……and it makes me have a lot of respect for you.” “When you do…..it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.” “I appreciate sooooo much when you do…….because it helps me……” Simply just saying the words grateful and appreciate followed by the specific thing you are wanting to express is all that is really needed.

    What is happening in your relationship that brings you here. Are you struggling with your person or are you here just to learn?

    Heidi

    in reply to: Dating for five months. Things are changing #37165
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    I got mad when he said he was going kayaking for the afternoon, and said something about time magically appearing when it’s convenient, and he didn’t like that. This is what I am talking about with you saying something passive aggressive and it’s sabotaging your connection instead of being honest in a respectful, kind way. So what’s your plan? You guys are going to talk this weekend. What do you plan to say?

    I just wish when I tell him that I need reassurance that he’d give me something to hang onto while we’re not talking. I miss it so much it hurts. What reassurance are you wanting from him? What does he need him to say for you to hang onto? And out of curiosity, how many times does he need to say it for you to feel solid in the connection?

    If you are going to make this work with him, then he NEEDS to feel that you are going to be okay when he is busy and less available. Having a woman constantly needing his reassurance, making passive aggressive comments, putting walls up because she is upset at him, instead of talking with him….how you’re approaching this is going to sabotage the connection. Your hurt feelings are running the show and all it’s doing is upsetting him, causing him to feel more pressure and feeling like a failure, because he knows you are not happy. The thing is…he is NOT responsible for your happiness. That is YOUR job, so figuring out ways to soothe yourself and deal with your insecurities on your own, instead of looking to him for your security, THAT is what is going to make this connection successful. Are you willing to take some responsibility for your reaction here? Or are you going to blame him for all of how you feel, because he is not behaving in the way you want? Of course, he has some work to do, but so do you.

    In order to work through this TOGETHER, it’s about YOU admitting your part in this as well…and he will admit his part and then you guys validate and acknowledge each other’s feelings and them figure out a different way to move through this. It’s important that you are VERY clear about exactly what you want. Give him examples. Let him know what lights you up. Let him know what keeps your heart open. Let him even know that as busy as he is, you deeply respect his work ethic and want to support that. So ask him what YOU can do for him as well? How can you help him feel less overwhelmed?

    Also, it is CRUCIAL that although you loved your connection best BEFORE his busy season, that is NOT where you guys are right now. If you pine after wanting what was in the past, you are NOT dealing with what is happening right in front of you. Stop wishing for the past, embrace the cards you are dealt with RIGHT NOW, and create a NEW design of connection that works for both of you. STAY IN THE PRESENT.

    Does this help with how you can approach your conversation?

    Heidi

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by Heidi G.
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Eve,

    Welcome! I’m glad you are here, opening up yourself to learning new ways to approach him.

    First, help me understand a little more about what he said. At 3 months, it seems quite fast to be talking about moving in together. How did this topic develop?

    What specific issues did he say would be too complicated to overcome?

    I would agree with you in that it sounds more like an excuse and a way out vs. a true, valid reason to end things. If he just lost energy for it, which is not uncommon, there is something deep inside of HIM that is blocking his desire to stay connected and go deeper and deeper with someone. Do you know his history with relationships? Past lovers? With his parents and/or siblings?

    What happens A LOT is someone may think they want to go deep and connect with someone, but they actually have some pretty strong programming AGAINST that deep connection, that lives in their subconscious…so they don’t even know it’s there. What happens is that programming (that is full of fear about connecting deeply) will sabotage connection in various ways and the person has NO CLUE what is really going on…all they know is they feel a certain way and they will act on those feelings. So if he is terrified of deep love and connection because his parents were critical or judgmental towards him his whole life, he will NOT be open to opening up and connecting deeply with anyone…no matter how much he thinks he wants it. I can’t tell you how many times I have this exact scenario play out, and no one understands what’s happening. One day things are great and then all of a sudden, the connection is broken with no real valid reason.

    Thoughts?

    Heidi

    in reply to: Dating for five months. Things are changing #37160
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Cindi,

    I’m so sorry it’s heading in this direction. Of course you feel awful and of course, this is hard. You can do this though!

    What I DO NOT want to see you do, is letting the resentment build up. If you don’t deal with it, you will explode at some point and cause some serious damage. You say you guys would be okay if you continued to communicate, but you are not holding up your end of the bargain. You are hurt and getting more and more frustrated and becoming passive-aggressive and THAT is about you and your choice to not set boundaries or communicate your needs in a way that supports you.

    Even when I try to tell him how I’m feeling, he’ll say something like thank you for sharing that with me” without reciprocation, reassurance or telling me how he feels about me, which is odd for him. What feelings are you sharing? Are you asking him how HE is feeling and what HIS experience is as well? One of the BIGGEST mistakes people face when sharing their feelings, is they wait for the other person to make them feel better, care about them, and apologize in some way. What is missing here is YOU saying “This is how I’m feeling and I’m not okay continuing like this. How can we work together better? I know you feel like you are being pulled in a million directions. I can also tell you that if you and I don’t take care of each other during this time, we won’t make it….and I really want to. So how about we talk about how to navigate this better, because I am reaching my breaking point.” And then get VERY SPECIFIC, by giving him examples of what doesn’t work well for you and offer a solution as to what he can do instead to help you. For example, he canceled your date, which of course is frustrating, but would you feel better if he made effort to reschedule it? That would be something to share with him…instead of canceling and leaving you hanging, he needs to have awareness about how that made you feel and then set up another time and MAKE SURE he doesn’t do it again. You can only be canceled on so many times before the trust is completely broken, because he can’t follow through with what he says he is going to do. That is integrity and without integrity, trust and safety cannot exist.

    He said he felt terrible for not knowing how to make everything work, but I just didn’t really reciprocate much because he cancelled our date night. I didn’t feel like telling him that I wished k could be there to comfort him like I normally would, because what’s the point? This is the passive-aggressive part that is actually going to shoot you in the foot. All you are thinking about here is about how YOU feel. What about him? When you think about challenges you guys are facing, he is experiencing so much stress trying to keep everyone happy AND feeling like a failure at it…and that includes you. He IS failing at making you happy, but what solutions have you offered to him to HELP HIM HELP YOU? He needs a helping hand. He needs to know that when he becomes less available, that you can pull the best out in him and NOT become one more person he fails to make happy. He knows you are unhappy, that’s clear. What is also clear, is he IS making small attempts and you are keeping the door closed to connecting with him, because you are still upset about him canceling the date. You holding onto this anger and hurt and pulling away your connection, is actually just compounding the issue and NOT helping you get what you want. You need to make a choice to let be connective with him, even when you are hurt. You need to make a choice to fight for yourself WITH him, instead of putting up a wall, waiting for him to fix this with you. You need to honor that this is really tough for him as well and he is doing the very best he can right now AND he also has some learning to do about you. He is not being malicious or abusive or harmful…he is just being overwhelmed. So how can YOU support him as well? It may mean that for the summer, you have to go with the flow more if he needs to cancel your dates. It may mean that you guys find other smaller ways to stay connected for now. For example, there is this great app Marco Polo. They have a free version. It’s a video messaging app. It’s like walkie talkie with someone. You have thoughts, so you record a quick video or voice message. They listen to it when they can and then send a message back. It’s an amazing way to stay connected to busy people. I record and listen to my messages while I’m driving, which helps me a TON, because I am so busy. But in my car, I can send quick messages to my circle of people. Something like this could help you guys.

    The only way for this to work is for you to get his attention and speak up and then you BOTH have a very honest conversation about if and how you guys can navigate this. You can say something like in a VERY soft tone…”Listen my love. We need to connect. I’m having a really hard time with how little we are connecting. I know you are being pulled in a million directions and I know you feel overwhelmed. I really would love to sit down and talk about how I can best support you and get a clear picture about what you need from me over the summer and vice versa. It just feels like we are on different pages and the longer we stay there, the more confusion there is. I’d love to get on the same page as you. Is there a time you can set aside for us, uninterrupted?? Maybe we can go somewhere romantic and have some fun together at the same time?” Is it possible to book a hotel? Can you both find sitters, so you guys can make a night of it? Just a thought.

    All you can do is make these attempts and hopefully he responds to them. If he doesn’t, then it really is about you deciding what needs to happen FOR YOU. He just may not offer enough for what you need during his busy season and you may decide to let him go. I’d love to see you both compromise here though. It sounds like he is still invested in you.

    And Cindi, we are here for you! The moment you are feeling hurt, frustrated, angry or sad, let us know! We are experts for you to bounce your ideas off of, help you through the sticky times, and offer different perspectives. We are an instant resource for you, so use it to help you through this!

    Heidi

    in reply to: Dating for five months. Things are changing #37156
    Heidi G
    Moderator

    Hi Cindi,

    I wanted to check in and see how things are going for you guys. How did your weekend together go? I’m so curious what happened and if you talked with him about your feelings.

    Heidi

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