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Hi!
What incredible insight and courage you have to face your life and embrace the truth. You are taking a path less traveled, which means it can get lonely sometimes. But it sounds like between the bible study, group and private therapy, you sure are doing a lot of good work and finding good support for your life. SPECTACULAR!!!!
The first thing I’d like to recommend is to switch your thinking around a bit about your “list.” I like to coach people to work with their list from a different perspective. I call it the “non-negotiable” list. On this list are the qualities that are non-negotiable. Meaning, they are qualities you CANNOT live without. Without these qualities, you know the relationship will not last and you know your soul will not be fed. These are the foundational qualities. Imagine these qualities as the ground and foundation you would build your house upon. Without these qualities, there will always be something missing which could actually cause your entire house (the relationship) to breakdown somehow over time. Let’s say you come up with 20 qualities and you meet a guy with 18 of those qualities, IT WON”T WORK! These qualities are truly, through and through, non-negotiable. The 2nd half of the equation is you. If you go by the rule “you cannot receive what you don’t have” you will understand that you must embody every single one of those qualities on your list first and foremost. That way, you are not looking for someone else to “complete” you are fill you up in your life. You are complete and whole first and the guy just adds to your life. This is the foundation of a healthy relationship.
So here are a few examples of what is on my list:
1. Romantic
2. High emotional intelligence
3. LOVES animals
4. Loves the outdoors – hiking, camping etc.
5. Active
6. SpiritualNow…this is where dating can be helpful to help make sure your list is really clear and solid. When I was in my 20s, I remember that instead of having “active” I had athletic. Because I was an athlete, I was really attracted to a guy who played a sport and was good at it. I couldn’t imagine not being with an athlete. But then, I ended up a dating a guy who was active. He worked out, he hiked, he road his bike, he walked a lot. I discovered that I was actually totally good with that. And because I am always testing my theories, I even dated a guy who I would consider a couch potato (compared to me). No way! What I learned is that I like to play through sports. I want to go play tennis, racquetball, shoot some hoops, kick a soccer ball around, go for a hike, play ping pong or air hockey. And being likeminded in how you play together is really important. So the bottom line for me, is being with a guy who is active.
Does this make sense?
Here is also a great resource for you to start to get a picture of what a healthy relationship is. They have a lot of incredible books as well. Start reading! https://www.gottman.com/blog/category/research-and-methods/
Heidi
Hi Sara,
Welcome to the forum! I just have some questions.
How long have you guys been talking? Have you ever met in person? Did you meet online? How old are you guys? How did you guys communicate? Text? Video chat? Messaging?
It sounds like from your other post, that he is not interested in a LDR. He seems very clear about that, yet you seem to want to keep pursuing something with him and deepening this connection. It sounds like he just wants to keep it casual, yet you don’t. Would you say that is accurate?
Heidi
Hi Mary,
It’s never too late. If you trust that each of you is having the experience you need to have in order for your growth, then there is no such thing as “too late” – everything is as it should be – even if it is not what you want right now.
I think it’s really simple what you can do. You just send him a message saying something like, “I deeply care about you and you are someone I’ve wanted to explore a deeper relationship with for a long time. I also understand you have some things to resolve inside yourself about the other woman – and that’s okay. I realized cutting off communication completely was a defense mechanism of mine of not wanting to get hurt anymore. After having some time to process, I want you to know that my door is open to connecting again, whenever you feel completely resolved and ready to move forward, slowly. I honor and trust your process. I will also continue to move on and live my life as it presents itself to me. I am going to choose to just trust that what will be, will be. I don’t want to fight against what is happening, but instead, just embrace it and accept it. I hope we get to come together again, as I believe we have something worth exploring, but I really respect you setting some boundaries to make sure you truly resolve whatever is happening between you and your ex. Does this feel like an okay agreement?”
How does saying something like that feel for you?
Heidi
Hey there,
Thank you for sharing more details. It’s really helpful.
I believe first and foremost in your statement “I need to learn to take care of myself first.” When it comes to your career, your heart, your body, your emotional and spiritual wellbeing…it’s all in YOUR hands. When you give up parts of your self to be with someone, you are building a very shaky foundation for any relationship. So let’s talk about this a little more. How do you feel you could take better care of yourself? What areas of your life do you tend to over-give? How does this serve you? Meaning, we all behave in a certain way because we believe it makes our life better in some way.
He is also showing you that he doesn’t take very good care of himself either. This is important for you to pay attention to, as you he is showing you who he is and how he handles stress. So him over-giving is showing you that he could improve his self-love.
What is very true for both of you is that “you cannot give what you don’t have.” Meaning, you cannot offer true, authentic, healthy love if you don’t have it for yourself first. It sounds like this is an area that you both struggle with. Yes?
I know you don’t want to step into another unhealthy relationship. Despite your positive attitude and demeanor, you chose to stay in a toxic relationship for a very long time, which says a lot about your own personal vision and belief about yourself. Have you ever worked with a therapist to heal from your experiences with him?
I agree with Kanya. It seems you really take more responsibility for this than is necessary. I think if you were to take a step back and look at how this relationship has functioned, it’s been confusing since the beginning. There’s an underlying energetic current that seems unstable, inconsistent and confusing. You are right in that he has a path he needs to take and so do you. Your fears and concerns are accurate. This guy does not sound like he has the ability to love deeply and fully and in a healthy way. I think your best course of action right now is to just keep living your life and maybe head in the direction of self-improvement and healing wounds from your past. I have no doubt that as you strengthen your relationship with yourself and as you strengthen self-love, every area of your life will improve. This kind of path will only lead to bringing better situations into your life. Let him go for now and work on yourself. Read books, find a coach or a therapist and work on yourself.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Kirsten,
Welcome to the forum. You are asking a great question. Really mastering the art of asking questions to truly get to know someone is important.
Would you mind providing more detail? Have you ever met in person? Did you meet online? How long have you guys been “dating” or getting to know each other? How long ago did he lose his wife? Has he talked about her and their marriage at all? I’m wondering how their marriage was. Does he have any children?
As far as your conversations go, can you provide some examples of the differences you feel when he seems eager to talk vs. feeling like a chore? When it feels like a chore, what is he like? Is he good at asking you questions? How long do conversations last typically when you feel he is in a good mood vs. when he feels like it’s a chore?
Looking forward to hearing back from you.
Heidi
Hi Rhonda,
I asked them to give you my contact info, so I can email you information for my coach. I do not want to post it here on the public forum. So whenever you are ready, just shoot me an email and I’ll connect you with her.
I totally get your desire to go home. There is so much more happening there and you are watching everyone enjoy the things that truly nourish your soul. However, I am so glad you are finding some valuable experiences where you are at. What kind of things are you noticing about yourself as you are around positive people?
I wasn’t sure if you are wanting some feedback about your profile or not. I actually totally get what you are trying to portray. I would suggest going about it in a bit of a different way. Whenever a woman says “I need” it can cause men to put walls up. It can cause men to INSTANTLY feel like he is about to be told how he isn’t doing enough. Most men have an intense history of learning how they are not meeting their woman’s needs. So in a dating profile, I would suggest to stay away from that word, as many men could instantly find that to be turnoff. So instead, you could say it like this:
I love to dance barefoot around the living room. I love cooking over an open fire. Maybe some killer fried potatoes and eggs? (I’m vegetarian).
When I roll over in the morning and give my husband a nuzzle kiss on the neck and whisper, “Babe, its gorgeous out and the Bow is calling”, he should have the kayaks loaded within an hour while I put together some breakfast and a picnic lunch. (this sentence could be construed as bossy and also waaaay to fast – because you are mentioning husband). So just keep it more simple by saying: I love waking up early in the morning and hopping into my kayak with someone and heading out for a picnic and wildlife photography.
If you want to spend time with me, be prepared to volunteer, spend lots of time in the mountains hiking, kayaking, horseback riding, snow shoeing and exploring back roads. (This sentence also can be construed as bossy and has a bit of a controlling or pushy energy to it) So instead, you can say “one of my favorite ways to spend time is…….”
Be patient and in tune with nature as I have a passion for wildlife photography. (Again, a bit controlling by telling them what they need to be for you.) You can say, “Wildlife photography is one of my all time passions. The greatest lesson it brings me, is patience. Imagine sitting in one spot for over an hour, waiting for an animal to appear. You can’t move, you have to be as quiet as possible and sometimes that gets hard. But it’s all worth it. Patience has it’s incredible rewards.
Does all of this make sense??
Heidi
Hi Candace,
I understand your train of thought. My guess is, whatever your life is, my guess is that most people are just not equipped to be able to know how to understand you. Is it possible to for you to work with a coach or therapist? They have the skillset, ability and know-how to help people through very intense situations. That way, you can really release and express how you feel about all that you are carrying inside, with someone safe and someone who is trained and someone who can have some good guidance to offer you as you navigate this part of your life.
Ultimately, it’s truly no one’s job to understand you. It’s no one’s job to make sure you are happy. It’s no one’s job to make sure you are getting your needs met. It’s only your job. I have been where you are before. I too had an incredibly challenging upbringing and lived in it for years. Not a single person understood or truly knew me. I was so dammed lonely and living in constant pain. The only person that saved me, was myself. I finally decided to get help and it started to turn my life around. Ever since that moment, my life has only gotten better and better. Now, I LOVE my life, but I fought for it. I forgave, I released, I let go of an incredible amount of resentment and I started making very different choices. My point being, there is a way out of how you are feeling in your life.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Sarah,
Welcome to the forum. You are asking some really great and very important questions.
There are a couple of things to consider here. First, everyone’s timeline is different as far as how long they are willing to wait. What I think is more important to consider is truly understanding the kind of person he is and what he is showing you about himself.
What he is showing you, is he does not forgive easily, if ever. He would rather hold onto the hurt, resentment, anger and fear to keep himself “protected” than to let it all go and risk falling in love again. Love is a risk, no matter how you look at it. He thinks he is protecting himself from getting hurt again, but that’s just not possible. We all have some level of fear as we become more vulnerable and let someone into our hearts, because it is a scary thing. The difference between people is whether or not they will choose to walk forward with the fear or choose to stay at a distance because of the fear. He is obviously the latter. The problem with that is, he doesn’t trust himself more than anything. He isn’t choosing to be resilient. That means you will always pay the price for past hurts. He has a HUGE wall up around his heart against you (or any woman for that matter). Anytime that you hurt him that has a similar flavor to what he carrying inside of him, he is going to immediately disconnect, push you away and make you pay the price for it – because he will not develop the skills to deal with his hurt in a healthy way.
So here is the thing for you to consider, more than the timeline. I always coach people that when inviting someone deep into their hearts, one of the most important aspects to consider is who is that person in their worst moments? How do they treat you under high stress? How do they treat themselves? How do they treat others? What is their mindset and approach to resolving the stress and challenge? This is the most important aspect, because it is a crucial, foundational building block to a successful relationship. There needs to be respect, communication and an agreement to work through things together. I would say that is something that would be missing from his side of things. If he is someone who is not willing to forgive, then that’s a BIG RED FLAG. If he is someone who would rather live with a wall around his heart than to let go of all the hurt he is carrying, that means he is not someone who is going to be a good partner when life brings challenges to you guys. Is that the kind of guy you want to really invest with?
You keep hoping he will change and then everything will be okay. That’s a very dangerous fantasy. You are not seeing him and accepting him for who he really is. He can’t even say I love you after being together over a year. He doesn’t take baby steps. He is NOT stepping at all.
Could he change? Of course he could. Maybse someday he will decide to get some help. Maybe someday, something will happen that will show him that holding onto the past is not worth running the present and is not serving him anymore. AND, he could also never change. I’ve seen people live with YEARS AND YEARS of hurt they carry around like their best friend.
So again, more important than the timeline is you being able to accept that this is who he is. If you want to keep him in your life, acceptance of him for WHO HE IS and not needing him to change how he wants to live his life, is what will bring you peace. The timeline won’t matter to you then. OR maybe this is not okay for you and you want someone who has more strength to face their fears and who is more forgiving. Then you would have a decision to make.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Tracy,
Welcome! It sounds like you have quite a complicated situation happening. Let’s see if we can break it down a bit and help you figure some things out.
First, it’s important to understand that just because love or connection exists between people, that does not guarantee, nor mean anything can last. A long term relationship does require love and connection, but it simply is not enough. You have to have 2 people willing to continue to make a daily choice to be together. Trust is also at the foundation of a relationship that lasts. It sounds like some key components are really missing here in your relationship with him. You don’t ever really know what to believe. That obviously has nothing to do with whether or not he loves you and has nothing to do with you in particular. The amount that he lies, even as a way to push you away, just tells me he is carrying A LOT of baggage from his past. He doesn’t feel safe inside of himself, so he will never feel safe with anyone. It’s his coping mechanism. I’m glad to hear that he got some help there for awhile. Does he still go to therapy? Do you know? What about you? You said you only went for a month. Is there a way for you to continue really working on yourself, your reactions, your hurt feelings?
Trying to move forward with a guy who is so scared of vulnerability and love is quite difficult. His fears will continually get in the way and sabotage connection. They may go away for a period of time, but they will always cycle back around and you most likely will end up in the exact spot again – unless he really keeps working on himself. So even if you get him back, it’s important for your just accept that it really is going to be a rollercoaster ride with him. Instead of fighting that or trying to change that, acceptance of it is what is going to be your greatest way to sustain this kind of relationship. Does that make sense?
I understand you are afraid of being hurt. That will ALWAYS be there. We all are afraid of that. It sucks to go through. The truth is, you could absolutely get shut down as that is the risk, but it sounds like you are willing to fight for this, so let’s see what you can try to do to get his attention.
It’s been 30 days of no contact. Well done on giving him space! How about contacting him and saying something like, “Hello there. There is something I would like to ask for your help with. Are you able to chat or meet up anytime soon? Also, I would still like to get that item from you as well. Hope you are well.” Then you have to come up with something he can help you with. Was he good at anything? Did he know a lot about anything? Was he handy at all? Is there advice he could give you about something?
Heidi
Hi Marissa,
It sounds like it probably is best to really just let this go for right now. The energy you are giving off and your “need” to connect and get answers, is exactly what is pushing him away. A man likes to feel that his woman has this inner strength. When he falls apart, when he disconnects, when he messes up, he needs to feel that she will be okay. Whenever we go into the energy of trying to convince them, beg them, explain to them or go after them – it is what causes them to lose respect. You essentially are reaching out, trying to force something to happen and pull him back into a relationship with you in a way that is giving him all your power. He doesn’t want that power. He wants you to keep that power for yourself and own it!
So for example, you could have said a lot of the same things, but just in a different way that kept you empowered. So instead of saying “I should have asked you if you needed space instead of asking if you wanted to be in a relationship….” you could have said, “Listen. I know you need some space. I trust that what is happening right now, despite how much it hurts, will help me become a better person. It would be helpful if I knew why you are done with us. It will help me truly look at myself and our situation and learn from it. If not, I will choose to respect that and let it go.”
Do you feel the difference in the “tone” of what is being said? The way you are communicating is by giving him all of your power to either make you happy or miserable. No one wants that kind of responsibility. When you keep your power and know that YOU are the only source of your happiness and that everyone else is just a bonus or add on, the right kind of people will be drawn to you like flies!
Does this make sense?
Again, give him some space, work with the feelings that are coming up and don’t look to him to help you feel better. Do you have some friends who can support you through this? What can you do to take care of yourself right now? What kinds of nurturing things can you do?
Heidi
Hi Candace,
It sounds like you are heading into hopelessness and depression. Is that how you are feeling??
First, it’s so important for you to realize that whatever story you carry in your mind about what is happening in your life, that story is what will dominate your life. So for example, if your story is “no one understands” then that is what will show up in your life. If your story is “It’s a little too late” then that is what will show up for you. Our thoughts and our beliefs are what ends up showing up in our experiences and reality. My point is, the energy and mindset is what needs to be healed, not necessarily the action.
For example, there is no need for you to stop talking about your experiences with your family. It’s more about HOW you talk about it. If you talk about it in a way that expresses more of a victim type of energy, people will want to help at first, but then get really exhausted hearing about it. If you talk about it in a way where you are giving off an empowered energy, people will be able to listen to that all day. They won’t feel like they need to rescue you, because they FEEL the energy coming off of you as if you totally got it under control and it’s all good.
As far as making a stand and your fear of regretting it later and not feeling like you have a choice…none of that has to be true. Again, this is the story you are creating about your situation and it’s the story you are investing your emotions into, therefore it’s your reality. Where your true choice lies, is in what you believe. The truth is, you DO have a million choices. You are not trapped. You have all the power in the world, right at your fingertips, to create your life the way you want. You have all the power in the world to choose what you want to believe in. It’s’ FEAR that is stopping you. Fear = Lies. Fear cannot exist without lies. So whenever fear is in the driver’s seat, we are choosing to believe in a lie rather than the truth. What’s the truth? The truth is, no matter what path you take, each path has many gifts for you. Each path has the potential to make you stronger. Each path is just a choice about how you want to live. If you end up regretting the choices you made, then great! All that means is you have an opportunity to work with the feelings of regret and heal the lies that source the feeling of regret. If you just keep running and avoiding regret, it will NEVER go away and it will constantly and always keep you from living your life. It will keep you stuck 100% of the time. So the choices you have are to either face the fears that are stopping you from living your life, or let them keep running your life. Your choices exist in the stories you decide to tell yourself about your life.
Listen, I know how hard this is. I have been where you are many, many, many times. I have felt helpless, hopeless, angry and every other dark emotion you can imagine – in very deep ways. There is nothing easy about living with those feelings. There is a way out of them though. You have to fight your way out of those lies and fight to connect to the truth – at all costs. My life 20 years ago was sooooo different than what it is today. There is no quick fix. It’s a long steady journey, but one worth taking. I chose to get to know my fears and step into them. I chose to keep fighting for the life I knew was my divine right to live – which is to feel really happy and love life. I chose to get back up every single time I got knocked down – which felt like a never-ending battle. Now, I am a completely different person. I am incredibly strong and resilient. Every time I chose to fight, face my fears and work to change the stories I was telling myself, I became more resilient and I built a strength that is unbreakable. You have that same choice, that exact same opportunity and that exact ability to heal that I did.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Carrie,
Wow…you guys have been through an incredible amount together! It sounds like it’s truly been since October since things started to go downhill.
Would you say that before that, you both like your relationship? How did it function? Was it romantic and passionate at all? Did you feel really good together, despite the changes you were facing about the business and the other stuff?
Honestly, this sounds like an incredible opportunity for you. I know you want to be with him, but what if instead, you took this time to truly connect to yourself, your insecurities and become the woman you truly want to be. He will be able to see all of the changes you are making along the way and you will have an incredible chance to get back together with him and make it better than ever. For example, it’s important you really connect with your feminine side and get cozy with flirting. Have you ever tried belly dancing??? Or salsa? Those kinds of dances really can get you into your body and help expose areas where you are feeling really stuck. It requires 100% full activation of the female side. It will help you with your flirting a TON! Yes, there is a technique to flirting, but all the techniques in the world won’t work if you don’t have the energy of your sexuality, the energy of your feminine behind it. So working on the energy first, is really important.
You mentioned that he said: “I’m not vulnerable with him, don’t have faith in him and don’t have a lot of respect for him.” What’s this about? Tell us more about this. Why he would feel that way? If it feels like an area you could improve upon, do you know what is stopping you from feeling safe and vulnerable with him?
For now, it’s best that you move into another room. It’s important to create some sort of distance and space. Ideally, you guys would not even live together, but it doesn’t sound like that is an option at the moment. You need some space to really feel whatever is going on for you and he needs some space to also feel whatever he needs to feel.
I’m not sure what you meant by asking if you should take his help or not. You said, “I don’t know how much to take him up on his offer to help me through all of this – he wants me to but I struggle for my independence from him if he really doesn’t want to pursue our romantic relationship.” What specifically is he offering to help you with?
As far as self-confidence, no one is ever 100%. Every single person on the face of the planet has low self-esteem. It’s just part of being human. The strong, healthy person is able to love themselves when low self-esteem shows up. They are able to connect deeply with themselves, have compassion and work through the challenges with more ease. So how about you explain a little more about what your vision is for yourself. What kind of person would you be, if you were 100%? How would you feel, compared to how you feel now? What do you feel is missing for you that you are not 100% ?
Heidi
Hi Courtney,
Welcome! Thank you for sharing your questions with us. I understand your confusion and not wanting to walk into something where you could get hurt.
I know what he feels like. I used to be like that. Sooooo many times I would have a guy tell me that they missed me and I would just say “thank you.” I wouldn’t say it back, because it wasn’t how I felt, at least at that moment. It hurt their feelings a lot, but I wasn’t going to say I felt something that I didn’t. I also had a TON of baggage. Like your guy, I had a really challenging life and I just didn’t have access to my heart very well. It wasn’t safe. I didn’t trust, I couldn’t feel very deeply and I honestly liked it that way…why? Because I couldn’t really get hurt that way. My guess is, your guy is doing the same thing.
There is something VERY important for you to understand here. It is not YOUR JOB to get him to open up. He may open up little bits over time, but he will NEVER be capable of going really deep unless he does healing work. This is not about you doing or saying something to help him feel more safe to let you in. Yes, those kinds of thing can work, but only up to a point. You will undoubtedly hit a HUGE wall that you are not going to get past. So it’s VERY IMPORTANT that you understand that this is who he is. Listen to what he is telling you…”that he feels fine and that’s just how he always is” This is how he wants to live his life. THIS IS WHO HE IS. He has a hard time feeling and he will have a hard time receiving your affections as well. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t have feelings for you. It just means he has a limit of how deeply he will allow himself to go. It’s not even a conscious choice. It’s an automatic response that he has not control over. His heart will literally prevent him from having deep, intimate, vulnerable connections. He does not feel safe to have that, so his system is on auto pilot controlling how deeply he can feel. My system did the same exact thing and there was nothing I could do about it, until I got fed up with it and decided to do something about it.
So you need to decide if he is the kind of guy that is worth it for you. He is going to be rejecting. It most likely will take FOREVER for him to say “I love you.” He is not the kind of guy that uses his words to tell you how he feels, so that is going to be missing in the relationship. Also, you might want to check out the 5 Love Languages website. It’s great for understanding how you and him are different in how you express your feelings. He sounds like he is more attuned “acts of service.”
Either way, when you see him this weekend, do not bring it up again. He feels fine. You interpreted him as being cold, but he was just being himself. The issue lies within you having trouble accepting that. You said “I miss you” so you could hear it back and it didn’t work and it hurt your feelings. It’s important for you to forgive him for not being what you needed him to be and then release it. And then it’s important for you to get very clear about whether he is the kind of guy you want to be in relationship with…EXACTLY AS HE IS.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Carrie,
Thank you for sharing more details. I still have a few questions. Why is he trying to get all of you ladies to communicate better? Is there an issue with that? That would be exhausting for anyone to have to deal with, but even more so for a guy. They just are not built like us and there is so much they are not able to understand about how we communicate. Why is he taking on that responsibility?
So this business is owned by both of you?
How was the sex between you guys? Was it frequent? Did you feel passion was there? Was there flirting?
What do you mean your relationship may have been too relaxed? And can you explain why he would be frustrated about how you take of yourself? Has he actually said that to you?
And you said that he didn’t want to feel like he was letting you down “anymore.” Tell us more about that.
Heidi
Oh wow!!! People are really going out then! Out here, so far people have been pretty good. But then again, I am still staying at home quite a bit like you, except to go to a grocery store. I do go to parks to meet a few of my clients, but they are pretty empty still. We don’t have metro here. Just buses and those have remained pretty empty. But of course, the young kids are not respecting the rules very well. There is a skateboard park I can see from my house and that is crowded every day! There is also a swimming hole where 100s of kids are gathering too. It’s frustrating! When all of this first started and we went on lockdown, the college kids still had a huge party (we have a big University in town) and 1 of the kids at the party turned out to have Covid. Ugggghh! Frustrating! Very different mindsets at that age.
So it sounds like you feeling mad is really your fear of being rejected and losing him. Yes? And your instinct is you want to pull away and not be excited to see him? I mean, I know you will go see him, but maybe your heart will be guarded some?
Heidi
