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Thank you for your comments Nia. It’s really helpful to be reminded of the possibilities and to never pigeonhole someone into habits that can change.
The way I like to look at non-negotiables is by answering this question. What can I NOT live without? If you think about relationships, it’s really 3 different components. 1. You 2. Them 3. The relationship The part most people don’t really consider (because they feel they love their partner sooooo much and don’t want to lose them) is whether or not they actually LOVE THE RELATIONSHIP itself. It’s very possible to love the other person but not love the relationship you both create together. This is where the non-negotiables can be really helpful in creating clarity about what you KNOW you need in order to stay open, connected and nourished.
So when creating the non-negotiables, I like to start first with yourself. What are the non-negotiables you have for yourself? Meaning, what do you do in your own life to keep your balance? What kinds of boundaries to you have for yourself so that you protect your happiness? For example, I protect my morning routine because how I start my day makes a HUGE difference to me. So I need to wake up by 5, which means I need to go to bed by 9. In the morning I shower, I work here on the forum, I food prep for the day and then I drive into the mountains somewhere and do my spiritual work for an hour…then head to work at the gym. Making sure I get these 4 components in during the week day is so important for my balance and my spiritual/physical health. So as I am dating, knowing these are non-negotiable components for me, I would need someone who is respectful of my mornings, doesn’t mind me getting up so early or going to bed so early, doesn’t mind the noise of the blender in the morning etc. So it’s about looking at your lifestyle and KNOWING what parts are non-negotiable. The more similar you and he are in these areas, the easier it will be. So if I end up with a morning person, it will be MUCH easier for both of us, but if he isn’t, it’s not that it isn’t workable…it’s just one more thing to have to figure out. Something to consider, because our non-negotiable lifestyle choices affect each other and the lifestyle you create together.
Then you start to look at the qualities and lifestyle choices that are non-negotiable about him. It’s not about what you WANT, it’s about what you NEED in order to be happy, nourished, open and connective. Here are a few on my list. Romantic. LOVES dogs/animals. Has a spiritual practice. High EQ. Active. So for me, these qualities and lifestyle choices are things that need to exist as part of who he is and NOT someone he becomes because of me. It’s about his character and his lifestyle choices (before he meets you) that are important for you to be clear about. So there are 9 categories I help people create non-negotiables in. Home, money, work, sex, health and food, family, children, community and friends, spiritual life. It’s quite a serious undertaking to really get clear about all of this. And once you create these non-negotiables, then you have to go out and test it out. My non-negotiables are different now than when I was in my 20s, so they evolve as you evolve. It’s really a journey of self-discovery which is so important if you are looking for love.
If you are wanting to fall in love, I suggest viewing dating like a job interview. Your heart is the company. You are the founder and CEO. You are looking for an employee to help you run the company. That employee NEEDS to be something very specific in order to keep your heart alive, nourished, sourced, vibrant and abundant right? You know your heart inside and out and you know EXACTLY what it needs to function at its best. So every single guy you date is on a job interview for your heart. These non-negotiables help give you direction and interview questions.
One known fact that is important to keep in mind. What makes or breaks a couple is who they are in their worst moments together. What do they treat each other like when they are hurting, angry, rageful, depressed, anxious etc. So first things first, when I meet someone new, some of the questions I begin to ask and pay attention to are questions that reveal what kind of person they are when they are upset and hurt. So I’ll ask questions like, tell me about your biggest heartbreak and what did you do? Tell me about the biggest failure you had in your life and how did you get through it? What are you like when you are angry? What is the worst thing you have ever done to someone? Of course I do not ask these questions all at the same time. They are conversation starters and I’m able to listen to their answer, feel into their tone of voice, see whether there is still any unprocessed energy around any of these events and so on. Also check yourself too. What do you treat people like when you are angry? How do you treat yourself?
The golden rule exists here. You DO NOT get to ask from someone else what you are not able to offer in return. Walk your talk.
Hopefully this gives some clarity.
Heidi
Hi Suzanne,
Welcome! Thank you for being here and opening up about your struggles. What you are facing is INCREDIBLY difficult. I wish there were an easy answer and path to take, but this is a very complicated situation with years of pent-up emotions and feelings on both sides.
The thing is, neither of you are doing any of the REAL work. You both have a lot of hurt, but it doesn’t sound like either of you knows how to truly process the feelings and release the hurt. It sounds like it all just gets buried and you both just move onto the next day, with the same feelings as before. “You cannot heal or fix a problem with the same energy it was created with.” I think Einstein said that.
It’s easy for me to mention what needs to happen and it’s simple actually, but far from easy. Forgiveness. Communication. Develop your relationship skills. All of these things take an incredible amount of work, time and commitment from BOTH people. Obviously it’s worth it just in the simple fact you both will become much better partners in the process – even if you guys don’t stay together.
It also sounds like you never really worked through the miscarriage. It sounds like your coping mechanism is to go inside and disconnect and it sounds like you don’t have any other skills on how to process something so traumatic – and neither does your husband. Is he still drinking? Did he ever own up to being an alcoholic?
Bottom line is, this is NOT going to be fixed by you showing him love again. Both of your ways of handling your marriage and feelings is dysfunctional. You guys need help. Would you consider going to a therapist? How about going through a book together? Or maybe attending a weekend retreat together? This is a great resource for therapists/books/workshops: https://www.gottman.com/ Here is another one: https://harvilleandhelen.com/
Thoughts?
Heidi
Whoa Rhonda! OMG I’m catching up on everything. Who knew I would have missed so much just in the past few weeks!
Holland??? Wow! I understand your hesitancy, as that’s so normal! You are so incredibly resourceful though. You are so incredibly good at meeting new people. You are so incredibly good at putting yourself out there. I have NO DOUBT at all that you will figure out a way to get all your needs met as they come up. It’s definitely an adventure and why not??? What have you learned about Holland so far? Is that Facebook group helpful?
Feeling a bit guilty for leaving here Let this go. This company has some growing pains to go through and that is not your responsibility. They were crap before you came along and you only made it better, so feel good about what you did and how you impacted them and leave the guilt at the door!
Heidi
I do not have an unforgiving attitude. It’s a waste of time, and it makes me the kind of person i don’t want to be. I want to be free of negativity in my life, and that requires me to let go of my negative emotions and feelings towards someone else, no matter how many legitimate reasons I have for those feelings. Wouldn’t you say that you have an unforgiving attitude in general towards women, Indians and Ethiopians? I know that you are open to anyone who comes into your life and holds up to your standards, regardless of their race or gender, but in general, your feelings towards these groups as a whole are instantly negative due to your personal experiences.
SO – I cannot forgive what someone has done to someone else. Why not? Just because there is not a personal offense to you directly, if someone activates your anger, your hatred, your rage, your disgust, your judgment…you are being activated by their behavior. Would you not say there is something to forgive? Forgiving others’ limitations, their incompetence, their short-sidedness, their lack of understanding and awareness, their meanness, their judgments etc. are all things that need to be forgiven as they stir up your own emotions.
Anyway. What’s your take on forgiveness? I view forgiveness as releasing all negative thoughts/feelings/emotions around an event or person…whether direct or indirect. Let’s just take Indians and Ethiopians for example. The way they treat women is something that hurts your heart and makes you angry. Their choices are activating anger in you, right? If you forgive their choices and let go of that anger, then think of how much happier and lighter you will feel? You don’t trust women. You get angry when you believe women are teaming up against men and wanting to blame and shame men. Wouldn’t you say that you could forgive the choice of those women who you believe are wanting to cause harm? To me…as long as there is a negative emotion that gets triggered by someone or something – if I am going to release that hate or judgment or whatever negative feelings I have…I need to forgive that person, that leader, that group, that event in order to move forward with clarity and not be influenced by heavy, negative emotions. I have a specific prayer I say though. It’s about forgiving people or a person for their limitations and then I forgive myself for not getting my needs met – then I hand it over to God and say “you be in charge of the time it takes for them to see their life through eyes of truth so they no longer hurt me or anyone else. And you be in charge of the time it takes for my healing and for me to see myself through your eyes of truth. I release all of this to you.” Basically, in order to hit ALL layers of why we hold onto things, you have to hit the psyche from all angles…the other, the self and whether we like it or not, our egos…which need to feel some level of justice for wrongdoing (hence handing it over to God to take care of and releasing my ego from the need to create justice in some way). It’s an incredibly powerful prayer and when paired with a few other things, I have gone from intense hatred to complete peace in a matter of 20 minutes and have helped others do the same.
I will definitely read the Gottman book. I’m curious to know what it says. But i don’t believe that it is unbiased. This research was run by 2 men by the way. It makes complete sense to me why this was the result of 30 years of scientific research. I think you will have a larger perspective once you read it. I look forward to your thoughts!
Heidi
Hi Marie,
our issues with communication, as in we never talked about how we truly felt towards each other until 4 months in. So before then, we were both guessing and trying to get a reaction from each other by doing things that hurt each other. This is what I call baggage. It’s the stuff you carry with you since birth…all the unprocessed hurt, unhealthy programs, limiting beliefs and programs that come through family and society etc. He recognizes that I’ve been better but he is still so engulfed in all the negativity right now that he can’t look past. This is also baggage. He is not willing to forgive and he is putting a wall up. We all have walls in effort to protect ourselves from getting hurt. If we all processed and forgave ALL the hurt in our lives, we wouldn’t need walls, right? Our walls are full of fear, lies, wounds, negative stories….all baggage. Does this make more sense about what I mean by baggage?
I’m going to say something you will not like, but it’s the truth. If he loses feelings for you so quickly, he wasn’t that invested in the first place. How about you put that fear aside and focus on what REALLY matters…becoming a better partner – and you do it for yourself and not for him. You do it for the next person you are in a relationship with – whether it’s him or someone else.
It’s important for you to trust in yourself…that even if you both go separate ways, you will be okay. You will figure out how to move on and continue learning and growing into a better partner. You will love again. This is one of the best ways to counteract fear…remind yourself that if that fear came true…you have the strength to handle it and move through it.
I think the first thing to focus on is your friendship and strengthening that part. It will naturally bring you guys closer to together. No relationship talk – just like how you were together yesterday. Laugh together, send funny videos, compliment him every once in a while…strengthen your friendship and connection that way and create a safe space for him to connect with you without feeling the pressure of doing something he isn’t ready to do. He seems to be willing to hang out, so use that to your advantage.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Jamie! We can absolutely continue talking here. I’m happy to be your guide as long as you are a member here. You know how to contact me if you feel like you would like more personal/deeper insights into your situation. Just let me know.
So let’s continue here for now. There is a question that I always ask that can help get you moving in a better direction. The goal here is to be able to be your own source of happiness, value, strength, truth and power, instead of looking for those things from him. So…what are you wanting him to do for you, that you are not doing for yourself? This is probably one of the most powerful AND frustrating questions to ask yourself, because it holds you 100% accountable to your reactions, feelings, programs etc. It makes you do the REAL work instead of putting it on someone else. Whenever I am in an argument or hurt by someone, this is ALWAYS the question I am asking myself, so I can come back to my own power and shift the attention to me…which empowers me to shift how I am feeling instead of relying on the other person. It’s one of the MOST IMPORTANT skills you can develop. Without this skill and this kind of mindset, you will fall apart in relationship and lose yourself.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Melissa,
Welcome! Good for you for taking a step and trying something new by being here. You obviously care very much and are willing to learn and grow. This is quite a story. It broke my heart. I wish love were enough and that it could fix things. I know you have that feeling that you are 100% meant to be together. As we break everything down and start to formulate a plan, keep in mind that NOTHING is 100%…ever…especially when it comes to love. That connection and knowing is so darn powerful, but it cannot make him become a better partner. It cannot make him learn how to communicate better. It cannot make him face himself. So no matter how much work YOU do…if he isn’t willing to do the same and really commit to healing and actively doing things to become a better partner, then you have a guy who isn’t willing to fight for himself…which in turn means he isn’t willing to fight for you and the relationship.
Okay…let’s break this down a little further and see if we come up with a way to create a connection again. Can you tell me HOW you have struggled with communication? Being that you were married to a narcissist, you probably just didn’t communicate at all, as it’s pointless. So have you struggled with just saying something in the first place? Do you struggle with HOW you say things? Do you struggle with what to say? Maybe all of the above?
What would you say the biggest struggle is between the both of you? Just from how you explained this, both of you are pointing the finger at each other and it just goes round and round with neither of you stopping that cycle. Is this how it typically goes?
What has happened in the past few months that you guys are arguing more?
Here is a short article to give you some perspective as well: https://www.gottman.com/blog/managing-conflict-through-friendship/
Looking forward to hearing back from you!
Heidi
I’m just going to create closure for this thread since we are conversing in the other one you created.
there’s no way, i’m going to forgive EITHER of them! Let’s talk about forgiveness then. What is your definition of forgiveness? Since you seem to not be willing to forgive everybody and everything, then what qualifies as worth forgiving?
everything you’ve stated – of women being incredible leaders and men being really good at relationships are the exception, not the rule. My experience is this is actually more common now. I personally would no longer say it was the exception. It’s not the norm quite yet, but I feel like it’s getting closer than it ever has been.
Is this really true? i would need every nitty gritty detail on this before i give it any weight. https://www.gottman.com/product/the-mans-guide-to-women/
i’m starting to sound like a lot of successful people who keep saying they couldn’t have gotten to where they’re at without a coach! lol 🙂 What a beautiful story! I love that you got to have this experience and I love your friend’s reaction! You have come a long way Vino and you have a lot to share. You have an internal strength that you have had to fight to develop and I know many people need help with this part of their lives. So many people are wanting more in their lives and have no clue how to do it. Having a coach to help with different parts of your life will take you sooooo much farther than doing things on your own. That’s why I will always have my team of coaches who work with me in different areas of my life and to take me much deeper than I could ever do on my own. I love that you had this experience!
Heidi
It’s hard to say what is best right now, because I don’t know or understand all the dynamics between you guys. It’s really just an experiment at this point.
First thing is, creating a different relationship with him is not just understanding about him more, but understanding and healing your own wounds. When you actually do healing work, you change on the inside. You become more solid and a lot less reactive. So you may know that your passive aggressive tendencies are harmful, but it doesn’t mean you actually change those tendencies, just because you are aware of them. I used to be incredibly passive aggressive with my college boyfriend. I was very aware of it, but I had soooo much baggage, that I did it anyways. It took me seeing a therapist and really diving deep into my baggage and releasing a ton of junk, before I had any control over it.
Neither of you have done any kind of healing work, so the reality is, your relationship isn’t going to change much. You may be able to control your behavior for a period of time, but eventually your wounds (baggage) will leak back out again and you both will just continue to hurt each other. So if you TRULY are interested in changing, then you begin your path of healing. You educate yourself about what is sourcing your behaviors (basically opening up your baggage and seeing what is inside) and then working with someone to help you release bits at a time. Here are a few books you may resonate with: http://thefordinstitute.com/love-beyond-belief
https://www.michaelaboehm.com/the-book/There are a gazillion more books if these don’t interest you, so let me know.
I would suggest giving it a rest. I would suggest limited to no contact and then after doing some soul searching and learning about yourself, you can text him something like “Hey…I’ve been reading this book and I learned about why I am so passive-aggressive. I’ve never like this about myself, but I finally understand what is happening and now I can work on changing it. I am so so sorry that you had to be on the receiving end of my wounds. You never deserved to be treated that way. I just wanted you to know that.”
Thoughts?
Heidi
What do you think dating authentically actually means?
I think for you, and the place you are at, dating someone who is also dating other people, would not be healthy for you. You already have trouble knowing who you are and your value, separate from him. So when he is giving other women attention, when he is not available for you because he is out with someone else, when he cuts things off with you because he has found a woman he wants to settle down with…all of these things would be incredibly triggering for you. In order to be casual in a healthy way, BOTH people need to feel casual about each other. His feelings for you are casual. He is not attached to you in a strong way like you are attached to him, and therein lies the problem. You want to stay connected in hopes that he might change his mind, so yes…you ARE de-valuing yourself this way. You are willing to take breadcrumbs when that is not what you actually want. Does this make sense?
Heidi
Oh how funny that you found my site! I grew up with a narcissistic father and dated a ton of them! LOL. I also have narcissistic tendencies, so I’m highly aware of the textures and dynamics that are involved.
Thank goodness I grew up in the dating world BEFORE online dating. I got to know what it felt like to organically meet people and all that is required. Online dating is a whole different game and takes some serious self-esteem and skills.
I keep pointing you back to yourself and you keep coming back with wanting to use him to make you feel better.
So let me ask you this. Would you rather keep trying to fill that hole with this guy or would you like to actually heal the hole so you no longer depend on someone else to do it for you?
The 12 word text is just about asking him to help you with something…whatever you pick. The words don’t matter, it’s just about the concept. So you text saying something to the effect of, “I need your help with something.” Then when/if he texts you back, you let him know what you need help with. It could be anything from needing help moving something or asking for advice about something. It’s just a way to activate the natural instance in a man to want to help a woman. It can create an opportunity to connect and then you take it from there.
Heidi
reaching out with a lighthearted text in a month or so and seeing what happens? What are your thoughts on that? I am just not ready to move on from this completely right now, but willing to set it aside. I think it is a really good time for you to truly start to focus on yourself. How about not making any decisions right now except to work on your healing and connecting more deeply to what is happening for you and the hurt you feel.
I understand that you want to talk and connect with him again. It will make the hurt much less. But what if you could heal the hurt all on your own and you didn’t need him to do that for you? What if you could feel happy and complete, without him?
You guys have been together for a long time. It’s very easy to get comfortable and to know yourself through that other person. He has changed though. And he is triggering you all over the place and instead of taking responsibility for your own triggers, you are letting loose on him. This is not a healthy dynamic and nor is his “stringing you along” approach either. There is an underlying lack of respect between you guys. First and foremost, that needs to be healed – but within you first.
Here are some questions to think about. A basic, foundational principle about relationships is they are mirrors to us. So he is a mirror to you, reflecting to you different sides/angles to yourself. If he is “stringing you along” then that is reflective of an energy you carry within yourself. We teach others to treat us the same way we treat ourselves. So where in your life do you not commit to yourself? Where do you tend to not value or respect yourself? Where do you tend to be wishy washy with yourself? This is just a place to start.
The thing is, you want him back, only to continue the same cycle. The only way to do that, is for you to do some healing and strengthen your relationship with yourself first and foremost, so that you hold a different standard as to how you are treated.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Marie,
Thank you for sharing this. I know how incredibly hard it can be to have such a strong connection and yet have such a volatile relationship. My relationship in college was that way. We were sooooo incredibly toxic and beautiful together at the same time. We broke up several times during our 3 years together. We so intensely loved each other and would keep coming back to each other, but we just couldn’t keep the peace.
Reality is, a relationship like yours doesn’t last. When there is that much arguing and betrayal, especially in such a short amount of time, it’s a sign of how much baggage you are both bringing into the relationship. Love and connection is far less powerful than the baggage that is in this relationship.
The very best thing you can do is to really look at how he is triggering you and your passive aggressive tendencies. He doesn’t want to keep fighting with you – and that is probably the healthiest choice he can make for himself. You are not healthy for him. He is not healthy for you. You trigger each other and neither of you are handling it in a healthy, respectful way.
You want him back? It wouldn’t be about trying to convince him, but instead, create a different relationship with him. It’s time for you to really face all the baggage you are carrying around. Is that something you are willing to do? He doesn’t want to step back into the same old patterns of divisiveness. Are you willing to look at how you are contributing to this and changing how you handle things?
Do you think he would be willing to do the same?Heidi
I just wanted to add, how do you balance giving space and not being forgotten? Let’s really look at this question. It identifies where you are giving your power away.
Someone who values themselves from the inside, would not be asking this question. You are putting your value in HIS hands. You don’t want to be forgotten by HIM. Instead, someone with a higher amount of self-love would say “It doesn’t matter whether he forgets me or not. I am valuable regardless.”
So really, there is no balance to create. It’s about turning your focus inward…onto yourself instead of onto him, to make you feel better. You are wanting HIM to do for you what you are not willing to do for yourself…which is find you valuable. So if he is making you valuable, you don’t feel valuable. If he remembers you, then you are valuable. If he forgets you, then you are not valuable. Do you see how this is giving away your power to him?
I really do struggle to see my value. I understand. I’ve been there. We all have been there. No matter how internally strong and healthy you become, you will still have moments where you struggle to see your value. So let’s talk about this more. How come you struggle with this? What is in the way of you knowing how truly great and loveable and wonderful you are?
Heidi
