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What do you mean by your ongoing separation? Are you not officially divorced yet? Help me understand this a little more.
What do you mean you are pushing so hard through self-care and therapy? What kind of therapy are you doing? Do you feel that working with your therapist has brought you some really good results?
It is sooooo incredibly hard when everyone you are supposed to feel safe with, is so incredibly rejecting – and when that begins in the primary years…man that is tough! You have to become your own source in a way that others who grew up with more love and stability don’t have to do. The gift is…you will also know and understand and have a level of self-love and care that most people will never have.
And…to have someone treat you in such a beautiful way is so incredibly nourishing. I understand how good he felt for you. Are you willing to just let him represent that guy who taught you that it’s possible to be treated well? And leave it at that? He helped you set a brand new standard. What if that is all his purpose was? What he did IS the baseline standard for you now and now it’s time for him to go. Is that something you are willing to accept and embrace?
Heidi
This is a great start! So tell me more…you say you are better at communicating more, but there is a lot of miscommunication. How? What EXACTLY is happening?
How much do you feel you are not communicating well enough and he misunderstands, or you feel you say things pretty clearly and he still misunderstands.
I’m looking for a clearer pictures as to what “miscommunication” means in your relationship.
Heidi
Hi Suzanne,
I’m glad to hear you are looking for a therapist. See if you can find someone with a specialty in EMDR or hypnosis or something beyond just regular talk therapy. Talk therapy has a shelf life and can only take you so far in your healing process. EMDR is my favorite method, but ultimately, it’s about the therapist and their ability to use techniques, beyond talking, to help you process on deeper levels.
I’m so glad to hear that he is starting to own up to some things! I do not recommend any specific book off of either of those sites, because I do not know what will resonate for you guys. ALL of them are amazing! So what I do suggest is that you go to the websites together and decide what book you want to go through next. Or maybe he wants a different book than you….the point is to just start educating yourselves on how to be better partners and how to deal with your emotions in healthier ways.
If there were 1 thing you would really want to improve on for yourself, what would you pick? And ask him that question as well. If there was 1 thing he would want YOU to improve on so you can be a better partner for him, what would he pick? And then reverse the question. Then from there, you both can start to make baby steps towards those things.
What would your answer be for yourself and what do you want him to improve on for you?
Heidi
Hi Nia,
Nice to meet you! I am going to chime in here as well as there are some things I’m wondering.
You keep saying you miss your neighbor as a “friend” the most. Let’s break that down a little. What EXACTLY about that friendship are you missing? The thing is Nia, you are just creating one cycle after another of being with men who are unavailable and being with men who do not respect you and being with men who use you and then bail. Even though your current husband has not officially “bailed,” from what you are saying, he is not emotionally present…so in essence, he is just another guy who is unavailable, right?
So here is the thing…the common denominator is YOU. You think you are “in love” but the truth is, your neighbor is not available either, so there is no such thing as “love” when 1 person is not involved in the equation. It’s you have feelings AGAIN for a man who is not fully available for you.
So if the people we choose to connect with are like mirrors to who we are, what do you think it’s saying about YOU, that you are constantly seeking men who are not able to offer you what you want? What is your pattern telling you about what you feel about yourself?
The thing that is going to REALLY hurt you and your children, is that you are not standing up for yourself. You are teaching these men that it’s okay to be unavailable and mistreat you, use you, discard you etc. because the truth is…that’s how you treat yourself. You keep ignoring the emptiness you feel inside and instead keep trying to fill it with these men who treat you so poorly, but at least it’s attention, right? You can put all of your focus on “them” so you get to ignore what is really happening inside of you. You are not even willing to fight for your own daughter who is doesn’t feel safe with her father. And you want your neighbor to care about you – when you are not able to care enough about yourself or your own kids to create a safe place to live??? So you want your neighbor to help you feel better so you can ignore the choices you are making that are harming you and your daughter.
This has nothing to do with cheating, abuse or anything else except this…you are ignoring how unhappy you are. You are ignoring that hole inside of you. You are ignoring your daughter’s fear. You are ignoring abuse. You are ignoring how many boundaries you are crossing within yourself. You do not have any standards for yourself and how you expect to be treated and you teaching your daughter to do the same exact thing.
Do you want to keep ignoring all of these things or go get a quick fix from your neighbor, who is only going to reject you again and put you back into that pain cycle that you are addicted to?
Heidi
I’m so frustrated and beating my head against the wall every day. I’m sure they will finish the job without me just fine. Is there a way to let go of your attachment to things being a certain way? It’s the best way to just relax and let things fall where they may…it’s easier to be in flow with that mindset. I understand they are a mess and how hard that is for you. If you can learn to let go with something like this, imagine how good you will be at doing it in other areas of your life! Can you maybe create a different purpose for yourself while you are still there so you can feel successful? Like maybe your purpose is to just bring more sunshine energy into this place. So maybe if you can get 10 people to smile each day, on top of your other normal job duties of course, then that is your focus and you can feel successful. I know that’s kind of simple, but maybe can give you an idea about how to shift your focus so you stop being so frustrated.
Holland sounds interesting. Do you know where you would live and what you would have access to? People take the lights and flooring? That’s strange.
Heidi
That’s my new me, living my life only for me with positive things lol Emilie! Wow! What a different person you are today compared to when you first joined here. I know I have said that before and I know you feel it as well. But still….wow! I love being a witness to your growth!!! It’s so incredibly beautiful! You are so much more solid within yourself, which is what you have always wanted…and now it’s starting to show up in different ways that so empowering!
Let me know how it goes with your boss and with this guy. It’s the 15th where I am at, so I’m curious what ended up happening!
heidi
This is a great start Allegra! So let’s summarize what you have created so far and take it a little further.
For yourself – “me” time is very important. let’s get more specific
Time to workout – how many days a week? I ask this because, as a strength coach for 20 years, there are definitely people addicted to the gym. They do not know who they are if they cannot workout and if this happens, they REALLY struggle. What is your relationship with working out?
Time with friends – how often?
Time to sleep is 11pm to 6am – is this flexible at all? midnight to 7? 10-5?
What else do you do on a daily basis to keep your balance?For him:
Loves dogs – what if he is the most amazing guy you have ever met. What if he makes you laugh, works out with you, travels around and is adventurous with you and you feel safe and amazing with him – and he is allergic to dogs so he can’t have one. Would you choose to have a dog over him?Family – what if he isn’t close to his family and has very good reasons for it? What if he isn’t in relationship with his family at all…is that acceptable?
Active – what if he doesn’t workout and doesn’t have a physical job but he hikes on the weekends. He isn’t a couch potato. He is a guy who loves to go do things, but being purposefully active other than going on a casual hike or bike ride is something he isn’t into, but again…he does love to go do things.
Adventurous – what does trying new things mean to you? Like what?
Money – what level of income is important to you? Is 50k a year okay? Must he be in the 6 figure range? You also want to look at HOW he spends his money and what his relationship with money is. He may make a lot, but he could also be a good spender. He may make a lot but also be incredibly frugal. He may make a lot and has a tendency to give it all away to people he loves or charities etc.
Kids – I’m not sure what this means. You say you have never really wanted kids, but it doesn’t mean you aren’t open to discussing it. Does that mean you are not attached to the idea but you also would be happy to have a child or 2 or 3? Meaning you would be happy either way?
Living location – city life has different definitions. I live near Boulder that is a city but I live just outside of the main area in a place with a lot of land. It’s not rural, but it’s not city either (at least in my mind). So get the specifics of what you NEED to have in your living environment. Remember, these are things you cannot live without, not your wants and desires. What if you had 2 homes? One in the city and one in a more rural area?
Work – so if I am understanding correctly, you want a guy who is working in an area that sources his passion, yes? What if his passion is teaching and he is incredible at it and he changes kids’ lives…but only makes 50k a year….is that okay for you? What if he is a guy that is working for a non-profit helping end sex slavery or helping save animals or helping save the trees and he only makes 30k a year….and he is an INCREDIBLE guy and lights up your world. Would you walk away because he doesn’t make enough money? Or what if he is a 6-figure kind of guy and his passion is on wall street? He is in a suit all day and all his passion is making money. Is that okay for you?
Sex – I understand you do not have experience in this area with other people, but I would suggest you expand your experience with yourself. If you don’t know what you want or need, that tells me you have done very little to explore your body on your own. There are a ton of ways to orgasm. You have different areas that are sensitive and numb. You have areas on your body that create a different kind of sensation. These are all things you can learn about your body without ever needing a partner. So when you do finally have sex, your sexual energy is already on and active and you don’t him to do that for you. You can teach him tons of things about yourself. You are familiar with your body sexually and are able to be a really good guide for him. Here is a woman who teaches these concepts. At the very least, start to explore her blog posts and learn about what is possible without a partner and how important it actually is. https://laylamartin.com/programs
household responsibilities – what is non-negotiable here? you are getting more into what you want instead of what you NEED. What if he can’t cook? What if he hates cooking? What if his job is a 15 hour a day kind of job and he just doesn’t have the space to cook? What if he doesn’t really have time to clean and take care of the house either?
The class I teach is 3 months long, so I’m sure this may feel overwhelming. I’m giving you a lot to think about in a very short amount of time. What I want to instill most in you, is going to a deeper layer and asking deeper questions until there is no longer a question to ask. This is how you know where you stand with yourself and the life you NEED to create. So take your time.
Heidi
Thank you for your comments Nia. It’s really helpful to be reminded of the possibilities and to never pigeonhole someone into habits that can change.
The way I like to look at non-negotiables is by answering this question. What can I NOT live without? If you think about relationships, it’s really 3 different components. 1. You 2. Them 3. The relationship The part most people don’t really consider (because they feel they love their partner sooooo much and don’t want to lose them) is whether or not they actually LOVE THE RELATIONSHIP itself. It’s very possible to love the other person but not love the relationship you both create together. This is where the non-negotiables can be really helpful in creating clarity about what you KNOW you need in order to stay open, connected and nourished.
So when creating the non-negotiables, I like to start first with yourself. What are the non-negotiables you have for yourself? Meaning, what do you do in your own life to keep your balance? What kinds of boundaries to you have for yourself so that you protect your happiness? For example, I protect my morning routine because how I start my day makes a HUGE difference to me. So I need to wake up by 5, which means I need to go to bed by 9. In the morning I shower, I work here on the forum, I food prep for the day and then I drive into the mountains somewhere and do my spiritual work for an hour…then head to work at the gym. Making sure I get these 4 components in during the week day is so important for my balance and my spiritual/physical health. So as I am dating, knowing these are non-negotiable components for me, I would need someone who is respectful of my mornings, doesn’t mind me getting up so early or going to bed so early, doesn’t mind the noise of the blender in the morning etc. So it’s about looking at your lifestyle and KNOWING what parts are non-negotiable. The more similar you and he are in these areas, the easier it will be. So if I end up with a morning person, it will be MUCH easier for both of us, but if he isn’t, it’s not that it isn’t workable…it’s just one more thing to have to figure out. Something to consider, because our non-negotiable lifestyle choices affect each other and the lifestyle you create together.
Then you start to look at the qualities and lifestyle choices that are non-negotiable about him. It’s not about what you WANT, it’s about what you NEED in order to be happy, nourished, open and connective. Here are a few on my list. Romantic. LOVES dogs/animals. Has a spiritual practice. High EQ. Active. So for me, these qualities and lifestyle choices are things that need to exist as part of who he is and NOT someone he becomes because of me. It’s about his character and his lifestyle choices (before he meets you) that are important for you to be clear about. So there are 9 categories I help people create non-negotiables in. Home, money, work, sex, health and food, family, children, community and friends, spiritual life. It’s quite a serious undertaking to really get clear about all of this. And once you create these non-negotiables, then you have to go out and test it out. My non-negotiables are different now than when I was in my 20s, so they evolve as you evolve. It’s really a journey of self-discovery which is so important if you are looking for love.
If you are wanting to fall in love, I suggest viewing dating like a job interview. Your heart is the company. You are the founder and CEO. You are looking for an employee to help you run the company. That employee NEEDS to be something very specific in order to keep your heart alive, nourished, sourced, vibrant and abundant right? You know your heart inside and out and you know EXACTLY what it needs to function at its best. So every single guy you date is on a job interview for your heart. These non-negotiables help give you direction and interview questions.
One known fact that is important to keep in mind. What makes or breaks a couple is who they are in their worst moments together. What do they treat each other like when they are hurting, angry, rageful, depressed, anxious etc. So first things first, when I meet someone new, some of the questions I begin to ask and pay attention to are questions that reveal what kind of person they are when they are upset and hurt. So I’ll ask questions like, tell me about your biggest heartbreak and what did you do? Tell me about the biggest failure you had in your life and how did you get through it? What are you like when you are angry? What is the worst thing you have ever done to someone? Of course I do not ask these questions all at the same time. They are conversation starters and I’m able to listen to their answer, feel into their tone of voice, see whether there is still any unprocessed energy around any of these events and so on. Also check yourself too. What do you treat people like when you are angry? How do you treat yourself?
The golden rule exists here. You DO NOT get to ask from someone else what you are not able to offer in return. Walk your talk.
Hopefully this gives some clarity.
Heidi
Hi Suzanne,
Welcome! Thank you for being here and opening up about your struggles. What you are facing is INCREDIBLY difficult. I wish there were an easy answer and path to take, but this is a very complicated situation with years of pent-up emotions and feelings on both sides.
The thing is, neither of you are doing any of the REAL work. You both have a lot of hurt, but it doesn’t sound like either of you knows how to truly process the feelings and release the hurt. It sounds like it all just gets buried and you both just move onto the next day, with the same feelings as before. “You cannot heal or fix a problem with the same energy it was created with.” I think Einstein said that.
It’s easy for me to mention what needs to happen and it’s simple actually, but far from easy. Forgiveness. Communication. Develop your relationship skills. All of these things take an incredible amount of work, time and commitment from BOTH people. Obviously it’s worth it just in the simple fact you both will become much better partners in the process – even if you guys don’t stay together.
It also sounds like you never really worked through the miscarriage. It sounds like your coping mechanism is to go inside and disconnect and it sounds like you don’t have any other skills on how to process something so traumatic – and neither does your husband. Is he still drinking? Did he ever own up to being an alcoholic?
Bottom line is, this is NOT going to be fixed by you showing him love again. Both of your ways of handling your marriage and feelings is dysfunctional. You guys need help. Would you consider going to a therapist? How about going through a book together? Or maybe attending a weekend retreat together? This is a great resource for therapists/books/workshops: https://www.gottman.com/ Here is another one: https://harvilleandhelen.com/
Thoughts?
Heidi
Whoa Rhonda! OMG I’m catching up on everything. Who knew I would have missed so much just in the past few weeks!
Holland??? Wow! I understand your hesitancy, as that’s so normal! You are so incredibly resourceful though. You are so incredibly good at meeting new people. You are so incredibly good at putting yourself out there. I have NO DOUBT at all that you will figure out a way to get all your needs met as they come up. It’s definitely an adventure and why not??? What have you learned about Holland so far? Is that Facebook group helpful?
Feeling a bit guilty for leaving here Let this go. This company has some growing pains to go through and that is not your responsibility. They were crap before you came along and you only made it better, so feel good about what you did and how you impacted them and leave the guilt at the door!
Heidi
I do not have an unforgiving attitude. It’s a waste of time, and it makes me the kind of person i don’t want to be. I want to be free of negativity in my life, and that requires me to let go of my negative emotions and feelings towards someone else, no matter how many legitimate reasons I have for those feelings. Wouldn’t you say that you have an unforgiving attitude in general towards women, Indians and Ethiopians? I know that you are open to anyone who comes into your life and holds up to your standards, regardless of their race or gender, but in general, your feelings towards these groups as a whole are instantly negative due to your personal experiences.
SO – I cannot forgive what someone has done to someone else. Why not? Just because there is not a personal offense to you directly, if someone activates your anger, your hatred, your rage, your disgust, your judgment…you are being activated by their behavior. Would you not say there is something to forgive? Forgiving others’ limitations, their incompetence, their short-sidedness, their lack of understanding and awareness, their meanness, their judgments etc. are all things that need to be forgiven as they stir up your own emotions.
Anyway. What’s your take on forgiveness? I view forgiveness as releasing all negative thoughts/feelings/emotions around an event or person…whether direct or indirect. Let’s just take Indians and Ethiopians for example. The way they treat women is something that hurts your heart and makes you angry. Their choices are activating anger in you, right? If you forgive their choices and let go of that anger, then think of how much happier and lighter you will feel? You don’t trust women. You get angry when you believe women are teaming up against men and wanting to blame and shame men. Wouldn’t you say that you could forgive the choice of those women who you believe are wanting to cause harm? To me…as long as there is a negative emotion that gets triggered by someone or something – if I am going to release that hate or judgment or whatever negative feelings I have…I need to forgive that person, that leader, that group, that event in order to move forward with clarity and not be influenced by heavy, negative emotions. I have a specific prayer I say though. It’s about forgiving people or a person for their limitations and then I forgive myself for not getting my needs met – then I hand it over to God and say “you be in charge of the time it takes for them to see their life through eyes of truth so they no longer hurt me or anyone else. And you be in charge of the time it takes for my healing and for me to see myself through your eyes of truth. I release all of this to you.” Basically, in order to hit ALL layers of why we hold onto things, you have to hit the psyche from all angles…the other, the self and whether we like it or not, our egos…which need to feel some level of justice for wrongdoing (hence handing it over to God to take care of and releasing my ego from the need to create justice in some way). It’s an incredibly powerful prayer and when paired with a few other things, I have gone from intense hatred to complete peace in a matter of 20 minutes and have helped others do the same.
I will definitely read the Gottman book. I’m curious to know what it says. But i don’t believe that it is unbiased. This research was run by 2 men by the way. It makes complete sense to me why this was the result of 30 years of scientific research. I think you will have a larger perspective once you read it. I look forward to your thoughts!
Heidi
Hi Marie,
our issues with communication, as in we never talked about how we truly felt towards each other until 4 months in. So before then, we were both guessing and trying to get a reaction from each other by doing things that hurt each other. This is what I call baggage. It’s the stuff you carry with you since birth…all the unprocessed hurt, unhealthy programs, limiting beliefs and programs that come through family and society etc. He recognizes that I’ve been better but he is still so engulfed in all the negativity right now that he can’t look past. This is also baggage. He is not willing to forgive and he is putting a wall up. We all have walls in effort to protect ourselves from getting hurt. If we all processed and forgave ALL the hurt in our lives, we wouldn’t need walls, right? Our walls are full of fear, lies, wounds, negative stories….all baggage. Does this make more sense about what I mean by baggage?
I’m going to say something you will not like, but it’s the truth. If he loses feelings for you so quickly, he wasn’t that invested in the first place. How about you put that fear aside and focus on what REALLY matters…becoming a better partner – and you do it for yourself and not for him. You do it for the next person you are in a relationship with – whether it’s him or someone else.
It’s important for you to trust in yourself…that even if you both go separate ways, you will be okay. You will figure out how to move on and continue learning and growing into a better partner. You will love again. This is one of the best ways to counteract fear…remind yourself that if that fear came true…you have the strength to handle it and move through it.
I think the first thing to focus on is your friendship and strengthening that part. It will naturally bring you guys closer to together. No relationship talk – just like how you were together yesterday. Laugh together, send funny videos, compliment him every once in a while…strengthen your friendship and connection that way and create a safe space for him to connect with you without feeling the pressure of doing something he isn’t ready to do. He seems to be willing to hang out, so use that to your advantage.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Jamie! We can absolutely continue talking here. I’m happy to be your guide as long as you are a member here. You know how to contact me if you feel like you would like more personal/deeper insights into your situation. Just let me know.
So let’s continue here for now. There is a question that I always ask that can help get you moving in a better direction. The goal here is to be able to be your own source of happiness, value, strength, truth and power, instead of looking for those things from him. So…what are you wanting him to do for you, that you are not doing for yourself? This is probably one of the most powerful AND frustrating questions to ask yourself, because it holds you 100% accountable to your reactions, feelings, programs etc. It makes you do the REAL work instead of putting it on someone else. Whenever I am in an argument or hurt by someone, this is ALWAYS the question I am asking myself, so I can come back to my own power and shift the attention to me…which empowers me to shift how I am feeling instead of relying on the other person. It’s one of the MOST IMPORTANT skills you can develop. Without this skill and this kind of mindset, you will fall apart in relationship and lose yourself.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Melissa,
Welcome! Good for you for taking a step and trying something new by being here. You obviously care very much and are willing to learn and grow. This is quite a story. It broke my heart. I wish love were enough and that it could fix things. I know you have that feeling that you are 100% meant to be together. As we break everything down and start to formulate a plan, keep in mind that NOTHING is 100%…ever…especially when it comes to love. That connection and knowing is so darn powerful, but it cannot make him become a better partner. It cannot make him learn how to communicate better. It cannot make him face himself. So no matter how much work YOU do…if he isn’t willing to do the same and really commit to healing and actively doing things to become a better partner, then you have a guy who isn’t willing to fight for himself…which in turn means he isn’t willing to fight for you and the relationship.
Okay…let’s break this down a little further and see if we come up with a way to create a connection again. Can you tell me HOW you have struggled with communication? Being that you were married to a narcissist, you probably just didn’t communicate at all, as it’s pointless. So have you struggled with just saying something in the first place? Do you struggle with HOW you say things? Do you struggle with what to say? Maybe all of the above?
What would you say the biggest struggle is between the both of you? Just from how you explained this, both of you are pointing the finger at each other and it just goes round and round with neither of you stopping that cycle. Is this how it typically goes?
What has happened in the past few months that you guys are arguing more?
Here is a short article to give you some perspective as well: https://www.gottman.com/blog/managing-conflict-through-friendship/
Looking forward to hearing back from you!
Heidi
