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Hi Sophie,
Wow. You have been through an incredible amount of challenges and still have a lot to face. Of course you need mental breaks and of course you have moments of just wanting to pack your bags.
Wondering if worth it anymore and at the same time I don’t want to only see my son growing at only half of shared time. Let’s first talk about your son. It’s normal to have the fear of your son being hurt by the family breaking apart and wondering how this will affect him. The thing is, he FEELS more than you think and to FEEL the lack of connection in his home affects him too. There is no way to avoid hurt here. If your husband stays, there is an incredible amount of hurt because your husband is not interested in connecting with him. He would rather play video games and escape reality. If he leaves, there is the absence of his father, but it’s also possible that the visits will help build a better connection, because your husband will have had a ton of along time, therefore, he might be more present for his son and they may end up spending more quality time together. Who knows how it’s going to go, but 2 parents that are more happy separated are better then together and being unhappy. Your son will be okay! This is part of learning how to handle life that doesn’t turn out the way you want. As long as he feels you supportive, connected and there for him, he can absolutely be okay! Kids are quite resilient.
Are you still going to therapy?
This is incredibly tough Sophie. You have a guy who just doesn’t want to be involved or connected anymore. Whatever it is that he is dealing with, it’s more important and valuable to him that connecting with you. He isn’t willing to do the work required for healing. That makes for quite the lonely marriage, doesn’t it? He probably has handled his entire life that way. For him to go 2 years wanting a divorce and not saying anything…that’s a guy who doesn’t want to fight for something more in his life. That’s a guy who isn’t willing to be honest and authentic. He needs a lot of help and time to heal whatever it is that he is carrying inside. You both do.
Would you be willing to view this divorce as a clean slate? Divorce does not mean a permanent ending. It is an ending, yes, but down the road, it’s possible you guys come back together and are more high functioning. Who knows! Either way, the way he is right now and how you guys are functioning together, is just not workable. You don’t get to be yourself, he is completely shut down and is determined to stay that way….so let him be. Stop trying to convince him or chase after him, or appease him to help him feel happy with you. He needs to fight for himself that way. I know you have been together a very long time. I think a lot of people fight for a marriage just because they are trying to stay together and not lose their partner and the connection. But it’s more of an instinctual reaction vs. really fighting for a marriage that they actually love being in. Of all the years you have been together, would you say that you mostly have loved being married to him? Have you felt that deep love and connection most of the time (except for the last 2 years)? Is he someone you want to have by your side through the worst moments in your life? Meaning…is he actually helpful and supportive and your best friend? I know the past few years have not been that, but I’m asking about the rest of the time in your marriage.
Heidi
Hi Sophie,
Welcome and thank you for being here and sharing your story.
Are you saying that you had 3 different miscarriages? I’m sooooo so sorry that you guys are having to go through this. It’s heartbreaking and incredibly challenging. The loss of those babies would definitely trigger the loss of his mom. Death is incredibly difficult to deal with for most people and with him being avoidant, he will want to run instead of face his feelings and fears.
Since you were diagnosed with PTSD and him avoidant, I’m guessing you went to see a therapist? Are you still in therapy? Is he in therapy as well? Have you guys done any couples therapy at all?
Did he say why he wanted a divorce?
You have a pretty tough situation that is going to take a lot of time to mend, on all levels! The first thing I want to say is to be patient. It sounds like a lot of damage was done to your marriage first by the loss and then by both of you trying to survive that loss and not treating each other very well. How was your marriage before that event? How long have you been married in total?
It’s okay that missed all the signs. You are not perfect and it’s NOT your responsibility to figure him out and make sure he is happy. That’s HIS job. You are not a mind reader and you are doing the very best that you know how. Unfortunately, our best is not always enough and that’s where we just learn and try to grow from the situation. Sometimes it’s repairable and sometimes it isn’t. It depends on him too.
What is your current status? Are you guys still living together? Are you guys still talking? Is he still involved with his son at least?
Would he maybe consider a trial separation instead of a divorce? And then in that trial period, you guys can really create a plan about how to be better partners for each other. Read books, work with a therapist, go on a couple’s retreat, go through a program together. He obviously does not want to stay in the same patterns, so you both need to look at what those patterns are and figuring out how to shift them, first within yourself, and then with each other.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Yes, I could easily fall for Mark. He sounds lovely and definitely good eye candy. I can’t remember, is he from there or does he come from somewhere else like you? There are many other things on your non-negotiable list, so maybe start to find those things out to see if there is even potential here. Is he a Christian? If yes, what kind? Does he drink? I know those are on the TOP of your list. It might help knock him off that pedestal you have put him on.
Your awkwardness does come from insecurity. There is a lot of deep programming that you have never faced within yourself and this would be one place that it leaks out. Whether it’s trying to fit in, find the right answer, or trying to get people to like you…the bottom line in all of those things is insecurity. If you KNEW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, how spectacular you are, how loveable you are, how wonderful you are, then you wouldn’t feel awkward. With those beliefs at the core of your system, you would feel so comfortable just being yourself. That’s self-esteem. Your childhood taught you differently and you still carry a lot of those beliefs inside – hence feeling awkward. Why not come up with maybe 5 questions that you memorize and use ALL THE TIME with new people. People LOVE to talk about themselves, so that’s always an easy way to create comfort within a conversation. I love asking unusual questions beyond “what do you do, where are you from, how many brothers and sisters do you have?” So instead I might ask, “what are you passionate about, what is something on your bucket list, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would you pick?” Those are uncommon questions and people tend to become more engaged with questions they never get asked. You can go on the internet and type in “dating questions” and you’ll get a TON of them. This can be a good way for you to start to reprogram some of those negative beliefs you carry about yourself.
Do you feel awkward socially when working? I mean it sounds like you have a lot of confidence when it comes to work, so when you have to ask questions or gather information etc., are you awkward that way as well? Or is it just socially?
Do you always have to go through Bob first? What if you just went and did what you needed to do without him knowing. Is that possible? I know how hard it is to have to work under someone else’s ideas and they don’t align with your own. In the end, whether it costs more down the road or not, that is on him or the managers…not you. They have the final say and if they don’t utilize you, that’s their problem, right?
I worked with some girls that were first generation Polish for a couple of years. There’s still a lot of cultural programming for kids like that, so I’m sure you will have some fun exploring his differences. Do you feel awkward on dates too? I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned feeling awkward talking with the guys you’ve dated so far. I can’t remember.
Heidi
I completely understand why you want to keep him in your life. He felt really go to you. He sounds wonderful!
The thing is, you do not know each other that well. If you are ready to fall in love, there is something VERY important to pay attention to. Their shadow side. What makes a relationship break or last typically boils down to how someone treats you in their worst moments. It’s one thing to know someone has tendencies toward anger or anxiety or depression, but it’s a completely different thing to EXPERIENCE them like that. You guys know a lot about each other because of words, not necessarily because of experience. You mentioned all of these wonderful things about him that make you want to fight for him, but you are leaving out half the picture. What about his darker side? Are his limitations workable? Are his limitations things you are willing to work through with him? You can’t even answer that yet, because you don’t know any of this yet through EXPERIENCE. What you ARE experiencing with him is him disconnecting and NOT being vulnerable as to why. This is a limitation. Whatever it is that is happening for him, it’s big enough to hide and it’s big enough to disconnect completely from you. Whatever it is that he THINKS he is protecting you from, it’s more important than a connection with you. He would rather hide than be honest. In a real relationship, this would be a deal breaker. This kind of behavior will break a relationship, will break emotional safety, will break trust. The problem isn’t that he is this way, the problem is that he is not willing to face himself and whatever story he has created in his mind that makes him believe he needs to run away from you.
So when you view someone, make sure you see ALL of them. But in the end, it’s their worst or your worst that carries the breaking point, not their best. So before giving your heart to someone, truly know what you are stepping into. Pay attention to how they treat you under stress, how they treat themselves and how they treat others involved. Because that all will just continue to get magnified and will reveal where the arguments and disconnect will occur. So far, he is showing you that he runs. And maybe he truly needs to. Maybe he is really protecting you from him because he knows something that you don’t. Either way, you don’t have the option to get to understand his choice. All you need to know is that it’s his choice and it doesn’t feel good to be treated this way.
I’m not saying to give up on this guy. I know how good he felt for you. I’m just saying that regardless of how good you guys were together, he still is choosing to walk away and this is something to REALLY pay attention to. You need to magnify this side of him as much as you are magnifying the great side of him. Is this part of him acceptable to you? Is it acceptable for you to be treated this way?
I suggest working on healing your heart and letting him go. At the end of 3 months, he may or may not reach out…who knows. If he does, then you can decide at that point if you want to connect with him. But for now, HE NEEDS TO BE THE ONE TO INITIATE with you, not the other way around. He has broken trust. He has walked away and if you keep chasing him, you will just be teaching him that he can treat you this way and you will still be available for him. He needs to know he has to EARN you back. If he doesn’t want to do that for whatever reason, then you won’t hear from him again and that is enough information for you to know that he is not the guy for you. Whatever it is that he is hiding, it’s big enough to keep you away. Trust him. Trust his actions, as they show you who he is.
Thoughts? I know this is not what you want to hear or embrace. It’s awful to let someone go that felt so good.
Heidi
Very true, all those “tests” do not guarantee anything. You really did everything you could to make sure you were stepping into a healthy situation. In the end, we all are foolable AND life happens and something can instantly change someone’s heart – and in the end, we are all powerless. We cannot stop a wave from crashing. It’s an extremely difficult reality to face and feel into.
What everyday behavioral aspects are you working on shifting? And how are you shifting it? What’s your goal?
Heidi
Hi Sophie! Thank you for sharing! Would you mind posting your questions on a new thread just for you? It’s easier for us Coaches to make sure we respond to everyone if each person has their own thread.
Thanks! Heidi
So you really like Mark? How come? I know he is attractive and nice, but what do you actually know about him that makes you think he would be a really great fit for you?
Explain more about HOW you are awkward. How does it get expressed? What is the feeling you have inside when you feel awkward? Nervous? Insecure? You don’t fit?
Bob is strange. What do you think is going on that he would introduce you to people and tell you not to talk to them? Have you ever asked him why?
I’d be nervous about Turkey as well. It sounds like this guy is meeting all the criteria so far. Is he pretty responsive? From Poland eh? Have you talked with him over the phone yet? Do you know anything about Polish culture?
Heidi
Oh yay! I’m so glad a woman was able to drive you home and that kayaking was fun. Is it a monthly kind of thing? How many people showed up?
I’m glad that money is coming in on the horizon. It will make things a lot more doable and that’s really cool that you will get to work from home for a period of time! I absolutely would prefer the snow over rain as well. Rainy and gloomy and cold is my least favorite combination. Snow is at least beautiful and still go hiking etc. Do you ski at all?
I’m glad you had a bit of a connection with Mark. Is that where you felt awkward? How come? Or do you feel generally you are socially awkward?
Heidi
Hi Kelsey,
Thank you for sharing more details and thoughts about what is happening. You sound very grounded and clear about making sure to take care of yourself in the process.
I would agree with you that him not even wanting to have occasional conversations over the summer is quite strange. It feels like there is either something he is not telling you or he is just too scared to truly connect on a deeper level.
I’m curious…how were you guys moving too fast? What exactly was happening that made him feel that way? I’m also wondering if he had not wanted to slow things down, would you have been comfortable with the pace? It sounds like you are adjusting to him. I know you said you realized you felt the same way, but sometimes we talk ourselves into feeling a certain way so we are able to more comfortably align with our partner.
He is obviously willing to let you go and not fight for this relationship. This hurts, especially considering that you guys had a great connection, but for whatever reason – he is not willing to continue that. You may never know what his reasons are, so all we have to go by are his actions. I’m not saying to “drop him” but I do want you to think about what YOU want. You are having to align with him and it’s causing you NOT to feel in alignment with yourself. What you want is to stay connected over the summer and that’s not an unusual request…it’s appropriate and needed if the connection is going to continue to be sourced and stay alive. You have made attempts to talk him into that and you are hitting a wall with him. That wall is a MASSIVE red flag. Whatever is in that wall, it’s sabotaging your connection with him and as long as he isn’t being honest with you, and maybe himself too, then that wall is going to remain there. Let’s REALLY think about this here…do you really want to fight for a guy’s connection? It’s not like anything wrong happened here and something needs to be fixed. He says he just wants to slow things down, but what he is REALLY doing is creating a complete disconnect. That’s NOT slowing things down…that’s STOPPING things. So again, there is something going on here that he isn’t being honest about – whether it’s him being afraid of the connection, him not feeling it with you anymore, or someone or something else is influencing this. The scenarios could be endless here and you are not privy to what is happening, so all you have to go by are his current actions.
I understand you wanting to fight for the connection, but when your investment into doing this is NOT reciprocated, you have to look within and explore what is making you want to connect to a guy who isn’t wanting to connect back. This is the work that you need to focus on for yourself. The question I always like to ask people is: “Is connecting with him/loving him ALSO a loving thing to do for yourself? Is “loving” him also loving yourself?” When we look at our love and connection with someone else, we must not leave ourselves out of the equation. It’s VERY possible to strongly connect with someone and have that connection not be a healthy or kind thing for us. I’ve done it many, many times. That kind of connection has always cost me a lot. Now, I make sure that whatever output I offer, with friends or lovers, the connection is reciprocal and like-minded. He is NOT like-minded with you so you have been trying to adjust to him in order to keep things going. He has NOT been doing the same for you. So I ask you, are you sure you want to keep fighting for a guy like this? A guy who isn’t even willing to have a few conversations over the summer? A guy who want to STOP connecting with you for the summer and when he gets back, he will see how things go??? What??? You are so much more valuable than that! Don’t you want to be connected with a man who has NOTHING stopping him from wanting to connect with you? Don’t you want a guy who will miss you when he leaves and plans you into his life because he sees and knows your value??? Don’t you want a guy who wants to build momentum with you instead of shutting everything down??? Instead, you are fighting for a guy who is doing the opposite of all of these things. Are you sure you want to continue to source this connection? If yes, let’s continue to talk about this. Tell me why. What is it about him that makes you want to keep sourcing him when he is not interested in sourcing you? Is this a pattern you have in relationships? Does this reflect anything from your childhood and your relationship with parents/ siblings etc.?
Heidi
OMG! How amazing that you got to see those little hatchlings! I hope you get some great pics! Would love to see them if you wanna share.
I’m really glad that you enjoyed the water and kayaking! It’s a great investment – I hope that you will meet some great people that you will get to go do things with. I know you really need it.
Wow…Trav is really having a hard time with that passport. Sheesh! Is that the only thing stopping him from coming out there? Do you think it’s still a good idea for him to come out and try and find a job? Is he at least working in his field of study right now? I hope so. Is it going well with them all living together? I know Dustin’s wife can be a handful, so hopefully they are all able to figure this out.
I love that you guys are doing team building. I used to do that job a while back. It was so fun! I LOVED watching and observing peoples’ reactions and interactions. Tell me how it goes and what you learn!
Heidi
Hi Kelsey,
I thought I’d check in and see how you are doing. Any thoughts or feeling that came up from what I said? Any other questions? Are you wanting different guidance than what I offered? We’d love to hear back from you.
Heidi
Oh good! I am glad to hear that this technique is helpful!
The storey line I continue to struggle with is one of self blame .. how did I believe and completely bought into this unquestionably , how did I not figure him out and I consider myself a good judge of character I’m sure you are a great judge of character, but when it comes to romance, it’s a completely different thing. You have feelings involved and that can cause people to miss certain things. This is why I like to teach people how to set up different objective types of “tests” so to speak, so you can step outside of your feelings and observe more easily. For example, I have a dog and I watch how a guy interacts with him. I watch how they interact with serving staff. I absolutely have him meet my friends and my mom and I deeply LISTEN to their perspectives, as I trust them all implicitly. Here is a tip…if your heart is the most precious and sacred thing in your possession, how would you interview someone for the job of helping to care for it? If your heart were a GIANT corporation that needed an employee of a special skillset, what kinds of things would you set in place for an interview? And the interview would take place over 6 months before you made any kind of decision. What kinds of questions would you ask? What kinds of scenarios would you set up so you could watch their response? What kinds of things would you talk about? What kinds of environments would you want to observe them in? Maybe this can give you and your daughters something fun to talk about – you should come up with specific “tests” to experiment with on dates and then report back to each other what you learned.
Now…as far as finishing the story “I was foolable…AND I WILL BE OKAY.” “I unquestionably believed what he was saying and even though he fooled me, I am resilient. I risked in love and I love that about myself. I took a chance and that means I am incredibly strong. This is a part of myself I NEVER want to lose. I am proud of myself for dreaming with this man. It means I am still very much alive and vibrant and want to live my life to the fullest. So what that I got fooled. I am learning and growing and this is an opportunity for me to learn more about myself. I am strong and brave and I love myself for that.other resources can be repetitive , over generic and a bit like manuals.. do this and don’t do that..which I find boring. There also seems to be the attitude of treating men like these precious creatures we need to tip toe around and treat with extreme thoughtfulness and sensitivity , while they behave like a bull in a china shop all the time .. feels unequal to some extent but I guess such is life I find that instead of reading the “how to” kind of resources, it’s better to read about how you can get to know yourself, your patterns, your story around love and your shadow self. The more you know yourself, the more you will know the person in front of you. Deep dive into YOU. Here are a few websites to explore and they all have books- see if anything resonates for you…
I have a gazillion more resources, but let’s just start with these. Let me know what you think and if you want something different!
You are doing a great job!!!Heidi
Okay…he may or may not respond, so don’t get attached to any specific result. This is about you expressing something just for yourself and being okay with no response and just seeing how it goes.
Do you feel you can not be attached to him responding?
Heidi
Hi Caitlyn,
Welcome! I am sooooo so sorry you are having to go through this. It’s incredibly difficult to watch someone you love slip through your fingers and not being able to stop that from happening. Of course you are lonely at night. It’s a common time for everyone to reflect on their lives. It’s important for you to create some new routines at night to help yourself. Is there a book you can read? Maybe watch a movie? Maybe hang out with some friends? You can also journal. Instead of letting your mind loop and loop, write it all down! Journaling is really powerful in helping to settle thoughts. It gives those thoughts validation, a place to go other than staying stuck in your mind and many times, you will have new realizations while writing.
So if I am understanding correctly, it’s been about a week since this breakup? Would you mind sharing more detail? What exactly about the communication between you guys was challenging? You pulled away for a month. That is a really long time to withhold connection from him. Would you mind sharing more details about what happened?
How long were you married for? It’s pretty fast for you to jump from marriage right into a new relationship. I’m guessing there are a lot of unresolved issues you are carrying around from your last relationship. Thoughts on this?
Heidi
You will get your things whenever you are ready. You are still in a grieving process and I know something like that can just feel overwhelming. Give yourself some time.
There is a technique I call the “finish the story.” Whenever we are hurting, our minds are looping around some kind story we have attached ourselves to. This story is usually filled with lies or partial truths and our minds will create various versions of the story that will keep it looping. So maybe your story in some version is something like this: “He was so amazing. We had all of these amazing moments and now he is gone. I should have been different.” Finishing the story means you add more truth in. So after “I should have been different” you would add something like “AND he is a poor communicator. He does not have integrity in his word. He is an incredibly uncaring man to ghost me like this and he is not deserving of my heart.” So as you fantasize about the best of him, you finish the story by also reminding yourself of the worst of him…every single time. This will help you embrace the FULL picture of him and help you stop looping around only the good parts that cause you suffering. Another way to finish the story is end it with the truth about yourself. So maybe you are saying “I miss him so much and all I want is to get him back.” You would finish with “I know I deserve to be treated better and I WILL BE OKAY. I am resilient, I am resourceful, I choose to forgive and heal and I am worth fighting for. I am loveable.” This is one way you can start to reprogram your mind. Whatever negative thoughts come up, finish it with positives about yourself, because that is truth too. Stop the looping that creates the pain and insert the truth into your mind. Does this make sense? If you need some help, let me know what kinds of sentences you find your mind looping around and I’ll give you some ideas about how to finish the story.
it does get overwhelming and dare I say boring at times 🙂 ..there is such a thing as too much focus LOL Interesting! I’m curious what you are doing. What gets boring? What is helpful? And you are absolutely correct…there is such a thing as focus becoming harmful instead of helpful.
Heidi
