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Hi Andrea!
You are asking a lot of very important questions…and some hard questions as well. No one can predict what will happen. There is NOTHING that exists that works 100% of the time. Each person has their own unique situation and so many variables, so as much as these programs work, sometimes they don’t. It just all depends on what is really going on between the couple.
First and foremost, I want to encourage you again to spend your time and money on helping YOURSELF. The more you heal, forgive and work on your own limitations, the more clear you will be anyways. Yes, learning skills to be a better partner is always helpful. But if all you focus on is getting him back, you end up missing many things along that way that may be important for you. It’s like having tunnel vision and that can be very limiting and misleading.
It sounds like every time you bring up anything about the relationship, “i.e. I miss my best friend” it causes him to pull back. Asking him to stay in your son’s life is a pretty big request. It’s not really healthy for you nor your son….being involved in a kid’s life is a lifetime commitment and there is no way he could commit to something like that. That is the hardest part about dating. Your kids get affected as well.
This is really your choice as to what to do. If you want to continue investing all of your energy into trying to get him back, then that means you will have to deal with a lot of rejection and uncertainty for awhile. If you want closure, then it’s time to move on and close the door. If you stay, it’s like having and open wound that you will just have to deal with the pain that comes along with that. If you decide to honor his choice, then that’s allowing the wound to heal. Yes, it hurts but time will heal. It does get better. Part of your hurt that you are feeling now is the constant uncertainty. There is no closure so this open wound just stays open and raw and painful. You have to decide what is best FOR YOU considering the circumstances. Today, he is not coming back….and that is all you have. If you live in the moment, then you make decisions according to the information you have TODAY. It’s not to say that he won’t come back at some point. He could. I have seen that happen as well, but I always advise people to deal what is happening NOW….not what could be, as anything could happen.
What are your thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Tracey!
I can see why you are completely confused! He is saying one thing and doing another.
I just have a few questions….
What does he think a “relationship” is? He is behaving like he is in a committed relationship with you. All his actions are in alignment with that, so what does he think or believe will happen if he says he is committed to you? What EXACTLY is holding him back? What EXACTLY does he believe he cannot offer to you?
Why is he not legally divorced? How long ago did they break up? How long were they married? Do you know why she cheated on him? Is he planning on getting a divorce? When?
I’m wondering if he doesn’t want to commit because he hasn’t even cut the ties from his wife. I want to really warn you to slow this down. He is not even legally available. He still has a wife. It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t live with her or isn’t in relationship with her. Something is stopping him from moving on completely in his life and that means some serious red flags! I can’t tell you how many times people end up going through some emotional turmoil once divorce proceedings begin. It’s a big loss….a loss of a dream and there is a lot of emotional baggage that comes along with that….even if it is years later!
I know you are falling for him and it’s near impossible to cut that off. You are heading down a pretty rocky path though. He is not being very kind to you actually…he is romancing you like crazy, connecting with you and developing a wonderful friendship with you…occasionally kissing you…..all the while telling you that he is not willing to be in a relationship with you. Whether he is conscious of this or not….he is playing with your HEART!!!! There is NO WAY you can guard against being treated like that! Of course you are falling for him! Any woman would!!!! If he cannot be in a relationship, what is he doing dating??? What is he doing pulling you emotionally deeper and deeper towards him KNOWING that you are falling for him! And then….when you tell him that you are falling for him, he turns up the heat by being more and more connective with you. OF COURSE THE LINES ARE BLURRED!!!! He is being irresponsible and not REALLY caring about how he is affecting you. He is getting ALL of his needs met with you but not willing to meet YOUR needs. I know he treats you super well and makes you feel amazing and is meeting your needs, but he is not honoring what your heart is going through and the consequences of that. If he really cared about you….he would also care that he is causing you to fall in love with him and he cannot offer that in return….which means he is not caring how much he is ultimately hurting you.
Being that he is not going to change….you are the one responsible for protecting your heart. If you choose to move forward with this, then you are falling in love with a man who is no available and that is a REALLY tough road. I get it’s super wonderful right now, but you are falling in love and now you are heading into danger zone. I also know that the idea of letting him go will crush your heart too. This is what I would advise though….he is not available for you….at least not right now….at least as long as he is still married….he needs to cut ties and work through the loss of his family unit and all the emotions that come along with that….THEN he can start to date and consider a relationship again. It’s up to you though. Either path…choosing to stay or choosing to go….is up to you. If you choose to stay….understand there are no blurred lines here. Something is stopping him from moving forward and it is what it is….you need to accept that. His actions and his words are not in alignment and that is just going to be how it is. If you accept that, then there is no confusion. If he ever decides to be honest and share with you “why” he is behaving in this way….then maybe you will get more clarity and find more peace in your decision.
If you are not willing to let him go…then maybe consider starting to date others and start to put boundaries up. No stopping by…only seeing each other every once in awhile and cut down on how much you communicate. If you really slow this down, it may help you gather more perspective about what is happening. Dating may also help divert and distract you to help you slow this down.
How does all of this make you feel?
Heidi
Hi!
Well….he is interested enough to have responded and said good morning. It’s such a new encounter which makes the connection pretty fragile. He could be interested today, but something changes by next week! That’s even true for you!!
Whenever getting to know someone…it’s a day to day kind of thing….until you build up some time and experience together to establish patterns and confidence in each other.
So for today…he responded which is enough for you to go on that he is interested to at least interact with you. I wish I could give you more of a solid yes or no….you, nor I, have no clue what is going on in his life, what he is like and what will happen. That is always the risk and adventure in getting to know someone.
Heidi
Hi Giselle!
I can see why you are confused! I would be uncomfortable as well. Just a few questions….during this past year, were you just friends or were you being intimate at all? When he told you about this new relationship….what did you say? Were you honest about how it made you feel? If yes, what did he say and how was it resolved? If no, what is stopping you from being honest?
Heidi
hahaha! you are quite delightful Brenda!!!
You have a VERY normal fear and it’s okay. For now, focusing on yourself is what is important for you. Don’t worry about the men. If they hit on you, you can just smile and say something like, “wow….you really flatter me and just made my day and I thank you for the courage to ask me out. Right now, I am just focusing on rebuilding my life after a tough relationship. But again, thank you!”
Here is why I want you to only think about yourself right now. You have a long standing pattern of sacrificing yourself for a man. That pattern does not go away overnight. Taking a goooood amount of time to see who you are without any man to take care of, worry about etc. will bring up all kinds of issue, insecurities and fears. If you never face those fears, you will only choose another guy that pulls that ineffective side out of you and that is not what you want. You want to spend some time healing and working on the issues that caused you to get connected to an alcoholic in the first place and the part of you that stayed for as long as you did. Develop a brand new self esteem centered around you loving and caring for your heart and most of all….PROTECTING it! That is going to be a skill for you! If you went out dating right now, you would easily fall into some of those same patterns again. Maybe considering not dating for a good year. See if you can stay disconnected completely from your ex and your chat friend. No communication! Your ex husband has a LOOOOONG road ahead of him. Even if he did clean up, he needs to stay single for a very long time before he would be healthy enough for a relationship, so you staying connected to him will not serve you in any way other than keeping you in a pattern of staying connected to a man who is trying to fight for you. He gives you a good self esteem boost because he is fighting for you! But it’s not a healthy, nor stable type of self esteem he is giving you.
So spend some time alone and make this a season where you date yourself. You get to know who you are completely separate of any man and their attentions….who are you if you don’t have to take care of someone??? Go find out! You can read books, do weekend workshops and start to find people who are likeminded and on the same path as you. There are usually women’s groups where a coach or therapist guides them through a process. That may be a great way to have accountability and develop friendships….because if you really choose to face this….you will want some help and need some good friends. It won’t be a comfortable path at first, but if you can stay the course, the strength you will develop will be long lasting and will put a beautiful smile on your face that is different than you ever have felt before! THEN….when you have more confidence and have an internal self esteem….THEN you go out and date. You will find that you will attract a completely different kind of man many times. When you become stronger, you will attract a stronger man. Someone like your ex husband will not even make you take a second look….you will have grown past that level.
Does this make sense? How do you feel about this?
Heidi
Hi Trudi!
You are feeling what all of us would feel. It’s the hardest part to get your heart to forgive!
I usually go about it a few different ways until I get the result that I want.
First thing is first though….you have to make that choice that you are going to choose forgiveness no matter what and you will work on it until you have reached that point. If that is something you feel you will not decide at the moment, that is totally your choice…and I get it as I have made that choice sometimes. I just want you to remember there are consequences for that choice…it will keep you from connecting more, it is toxic to your body physically and your ability to be happy will always be limited.
1. One thing I work on is really connecting into the woundedness of the person who made the decision that hurt me. It helps me connect into their humanness and have compassion and reminds me of times I have caused great harm to someone. Bottom line is, it’s not personal. He made that decision because he was hurting and not getting his needs met (which is his responsibility, not yours) and reality is, he most likely would have made that same exact decision even if he married someone else. His choice is his choice and has nothing to do with you, it has to do with him. And maybe….just maybe….this is the best thing that could have ever happened. Maybe, if you both keep choosing to grow and forgive, you guys will become closer than ever. At the very least, it was a wake up call for both of you and as much as those hurt, they can be blessings at the same time.
2. The story you are choosing to hold onto is this one little piece “but he cheated.” What if you told yourself THE WHOLE STORY vs. holding onto that 1 little piece. The whole story goes past the cheating where you both are growing more now, are becoming better partners to each other and evolving your love into something more and different. You just had an incredibly romantic vacation with him! So instead of saying, “But he cheated” you say “he cheated AND….now we are growing closer, learning how to be better partners and working towards a marriage that is more healthy.” It is your resentment that wants to only say “he cheated” If you told the entire story to yourself, it would be hard to hold onto that resentment because following the pain, there has been many gifts.
3. Lastly, this is a “prayer” so to speak that I always use for forgiveness and works really well. I say it and say it until I get the results I am looking for…which is freedom from my hurt. This is how you could say it:
I choose to forgive my husband for not being the kind of husband I needed him to be which was…..loyal, honest, paying attention to his needs, taking care of himself, loving, authentic etc. I choose to forgive him for what he did and did not do, said or didn’t say, was and wasn’t, is and isn’t.
I choose to forgive myself for not being able to get my needs met which were….being unconditionally loved, being respected, honored, cared about, paid attention to etc.
Now imagine you have a watch on your wrist: Goodness (you can use god or universe or higher power…doesn’t matter really) I hand this watch on him over to you. You hold him accountable and be in charge of the time it takes for him to see his life through eyes of truth so he no longer hurts me, himself or anyone else.
Here is the watch on me. You be in charge of the time it takes for my healing. I choose to see my life through eyes of truth.
Give this a try a handful of times and see if it helps your heart shift some! Because Trudi, your life…your heart…is valuable enough to fight for. That resentment and that story “he cheated” costs you more than it ever will anyone else. Fight for your well being and your happiness! You are worth it!
Heidi
Hi Seitske!
You are asking a great question. I wish I could answer that for you, but no one could ever know. Yes there is a possibility of attraction developing and there also is the possibility of attraction NOT developing. I want to invite you to not view this as possibly wasting your time. Each experience you have with a guy, whether it works out or not, has value for you. You practice communication skills, feel different parts of who you are and learn more and more what you like and what doesn’t work for you.
Your last sentence is all you need to know right now. He is worth spending time with and that is all that matters. I remember my very first love, I had NO attraction towards him whatsoever, but we were good friends for over a year….then one day I had feelings for him….I even remember the exact moment it happened and was completely taken aback as I was not expecting it. One minute I felt normal, then the next moment I felt butterflies for the first time. So strange! I have heard stories like that many times over the years….so to me, anything is possible. What matters for you right now is to focus on friendship and really enjoying yourself and I promise, over time, you will gather more and more information to make a decision when the time is needed.
Keep us updated! I’m curious!
Heidi
Brenda!
I am being completely honest with you when I say that I had some tears in my eyes reading this. You have been through and going through an incredible amount and to get to be a part of your process is an honor for me. The tears were about feeling what a special soul you are, making choices that caused you harm AND then turning around and making a different choice….not just 1 choice, but several choices that are going to start to create some movement towards loving yourself more and more….and my tears are in honor of the incredible strength and courage you have to make these new choices. Even though you feel like a fool for that moment with your friend, you also need to feel the strength and maiden warrior spirit you are!
You will have many ups and downs as you start to take this brand new journey. You are going to make some decisions that will be hurtful and betray your heart, but I want you to know something…those moments are just as important as the moments of taking your wonderful tap dance classes (which is an incredible thing you are doing btw….it sounds wonderful!). Those moments are valuable because it will remind you of who you don’t want to be…those moments expose the weak links in your chain and those moments are sometimes the most powerful because it builds your spirit of resiliency….and being resilient is one of the most important qualities to have in my opinion. Resiliency is what it takes to stand back up after being knocked down over and over and over…it is what allows you to still laugh after loss, fight for your dreams, believe in love again etc. You, Brenda, are being incredibly resilient and it warms my heart beyond any words. You are courageous and because of that…you will impact so many more people in this world because of it! You will be able to spread that lovely, warm and caring heart that is your gift to this world! So when you have those moments of feeling like a fool or making decisions that betray your heart….create a space of love and kindness towards yourself and replace your judgement with acceptance of your humanness.
And for you to be able to take what I said and appreciate it…man Brenda…I took a BIG risk in saying all of it because not many can handle that type of “medicine.” I have incredible respect for you. You have made this day worth all the challenges I am facing. You are a gift! Thank you!
Heidi
Hi Brenda,
You are doing some great work! Little baby steps in a direction that sounds more congruent with what you want and need.
I want to encourage you to take 1 step further with your “friend.” Staying friends on any level can still be dangerous right now. You may just need to find this out yourself, but it’s no different than breaking up with a boyfriend. There is an emotional and sexual connection and you break up and then try to be friends right after. I have not once come across a situation where that actually worked. You have to allow some time to heal from the disconnect…the main reason is this….you stay friends, you have set these boundaries, but then what happens when you are having a hard day, you feel lonely and then there he is….you will want comfort, you will want him to help you through it because he can….sexual energy can EASILY creep back in….if you remember what happened before….where you disconnected and were sure about what needed to happen, then one day, you reconnected and said you missed him. As long as you keep ANY door open with him, you are in the danger zone and so is he.
I also am going to say something that I want you to think about. It may come across as harsh and I don’t mean it that way at all. It’s just coming from a place of a lot of experience and you can take it or leave it….it’s totally up to you. And please know that what I am going to say does not come from any judgment at all. I actually am pretty familiar with this particular pattern so I can understand quite well what you are doing and why….and it’s all okay too!
Do you think it could be possible that you are using your husband’s drinking and “drowning in his sorrows mode” as an excuse to not face one of your biggest fears of being alone? You are having a relationship with a man who cannot offer you a future that you want….maybe you have rationalized in your mind that you are “saving his life” but maybe the truth is, you are more afraid to be alone? And maybe that’s why you chose not to completely disconnect from your friend? I know there are a ton of other fears involved in your decision…but this fear of being alone, my guess is, is one of the biggest.
I want you to be sooooo afraid of losing YOURSELF…because that is what is happening, slowly over time! That is why you became attracted to another man….you are soooo starved! You not wanting to get out there, you not interested in dancing even though you used to love it…those are some pretty strong symptoms of you being in survival mode. As long as you continue to choose to believe that you are the only one who can save your husband, you will never be free for anyone else….so of course you don’t want to get out there. What if you did and you met an amazing person….are you telling me that you would pass up that person who made you feel incredible because you couldn’t stop having booty calls with your ex husband and you couldn’t stop trying to save him because he might head deep into depression?? That would be the choice you would be faced with. What would you do?
I want to leave you with this thought as well. Your heart sounds incredibly amazing. It sounds like you are the kind of person that when you love, you really commit to it and want to feel it fully and completely. Do you know what an amazing gift that is???? That is a characteristic that it not natural for a lot of people. It’s special in my opinion. With that said, it means that you need to protect yourself EVEN MORE than most. Because you care and love deeply, it means that you can also easily get caught up in the exact situation you are in right now….caring so deeply for someone else at the expense of yourself….and that’s where it needs to be protected. You need to learn to love yourself first and THEN you can help others. It means that you have to be very careful who you hand your heart over to. It means that you are more sensitive and need more care and loving kindness. It’s a really wonderful quality you have. I want to encourage you to care about yourself the way you are caring so much about your ex husband. Why does he get all of your attention while you ignore yourself? Are you not valuable enough to love and care for?
Hopefully I gave you some things to think about and mull over. It’s a lot! We would looooove to hear your thoughts and feelings about all of it!
Heidi
Hi Cristina!
What an interesting situation you have found yourself in! It sounds like your reasoning for not wanting to date a guy with kids comes from a place of fear more than anything. Maybe it’s time for you to face that fear! Because reality is…you are not willing to walk away right now. I know you are confused, but if I told you to disconnect now, you are heading down a really bad road….would you do it? My guess is no…so you are making your decision…so stick with it and really choose to invest in this guy until you see fit to do otherwise. Maybe you can look at kids in this way…children bring out a side of you that only a child can do…it’s a special place that is meant only for them….just like an animal can….you will find that if you and this guy continue to grow closer, because you care about him, you will naturally care about the extensions of him….his children. You might find it to be really natural and easy to care for them. Regardless of them being raised with love, you are still going to have moments of difficulty though…especially if there is a special needs child. It’s just the life of having children around. It is going to be hard sometimes….so what….you just embrace your choice and you grow from those challenging moments. Each difficult moment, whether coming from a child or a coworker, can help you grow and learn things about yourself that are wonderful gifts…so the question is….do you want to have those types of experiences? You want children of your own, so this would definitely help teach you some skills you will need as a parent anyways.
Are you willing to let him go right now? If not, then you commit to your choice and stop questioning yourself. You will never get a real true answer about how you feel about all of it until you fully commit and try it on. You are never stuck. If you discover after awhile that it’s just not for you….then you will deal with that moment at that time….fear is a funny thing…it’s all about a future that hasn’t even happened. Stay present with yourself and your choice and trust that for now, the door is open….until it isn’t. If it shuts at some point, trust you will be okay and deal with it at that moment.
Also, I do want to support Kanya’s guidance when she said to keep it slow. I do feel that it’s more important than ever, being that he has children, that you guys really take things slow and feel each other out for awhile before meeting the kids. Have you guys talked about a timeline for that at all? Just curious.
Heidi
Hi Trudi!
Thank you for explaining further!
I want to invite you to really focus on 1 major thing right now. Forgiveness and letting go of that resentment. Resentment is an especially toxic emotion. It costs a lot of energy and can be very dangerous for relationships. As long as either of you carries that feeling, you will always be limited with each other. Most emotions actually do not fade over time. What usually happens is that people get used to feeling them and their system slowly buries it below the surface until you don’t feel it anymore….until something happens and it get triggered. Every day you live with resentment is another day preventing you from truly being happy in your life.
Forgiveness is not about forgetting what happened…it’s about releasing the negative emotions around it…the feelings of hurt, betrayal, anger, resentment etc. When you can fully and completely let go of those emotions, THEN you will be free with each other to truly grow closer and deeper than ever before. I also would bet a million bucks that the resentment you feel is directly influencing your feelings of daily struggle of the rut and mundane stuff happening. That’s why I want to encourage you to take the lead in actively making that choice to forgive on all levels and not just wait for the feelings to fade.
Is this something you feel ready to do?
heidi
Hi Trudi!
It sounds like you guys are heading down a path that makes you both grow closer together. You are right in that it is going to take some time.
I’m curious…do you feel like you have forgiven him fully and completely? Do you feel any tinge of resentment, hurt or anger towards him about anything? Does he have any of that towards you?
What type of mundane details do you feel could get in the way? And HOW would they get in the way? What patterns are you trying to avoid?
Heidi
Hi Sietske!
Good to hear from you! Wonderful advice by the way. How is your situation going? Any new updates?
heidi
Hi Akiko,
Thank you for writing in! I can see why you are confused and not sure what to do.
Do you have any clue as to why he is not interested in something deeper?
I want to really encourage you to listen to what he said. He is not interested in anything further than sex, which in my opinion, is near impossible to do as a woman without there being consequences emotionally….especially the older you get. Women even have a chemical (dopamine) released into her body the first 7 years she is having sex with a man. That hormone is a BONDING hormone…the same exact hormone released in the baby and the mother at birth when the baby is placed on the mother’s chest. We are physically bonding with a man even if we think we emotionally are not. You already have creating a great friendship, so as you cross that line into the physical and then keep building the friendship, it is only natural to want more.
The problem women have is that they think that maybe the guy will change his mind. They think that continued friendship, dates, sex and having fun together may inspire the man into wanting something more. DO NOT PLAY THIS GAME!!! He has been very clear with what he wants….LISTEN to him and honor his choice. If you choose to participate, then you are participating with a man who is NOT EMOTIONALLY AVAILABLE!!! So if you were to honor his choice, the question then comes back to you….what do YOU want? If you want to fall in love, i would suggest to look elsewhere. If you want to just have sex, then you have that guy, but it also means you REALLY limit how much you have a friendship with him because it is VERY easy to be drawn into that and start to want more from him.
So to answer your question….he is JUST A FRIEND and nothing more! And if that is all he wants to offer, then I would consider no longer being intimate…which then means you may lose him completely….who knows. This decision is more about the kind of relationship you want to have with a man and whether or not that matches with what this guy has to offer.
Does this make sense??
Heidi
Hi Trudi!
Thank you for sharing your story with us! You have been through quite a bit but it sounds like you are coming out the other end and you and your husband are finding each other again.
I am glad you got connected to the hero instinct and how much that made sense about your husband being attracted to a woman he could “save.” It’s a strong instinct in them isn’t it!!!! Did this make sense for him as well?
What is your current situation??? Is he totally and fully committed to you and your family again? Has he let her go? Do you see some changes in him?
I imagine you are now being much more vocal about how much you need him in your life. Would you mind sharing some ideas???
Heidi
