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Thank you for sharing all of that! Well done for coming as far as you have come so far. It sounds like you have been able to truly connect to higher levels of truth about you, parenting, your daughter and those you are surrounded by. I bet it feels good to block your ex. You are 100% right…you don’t need him in your thoughts or energy field. Part of being healthy is having a low pain tolerance. People who are healthy are not okay being treated poorly or interacting with toxic energy. Good job!!!
I love how you are experiencing more of your feminine side. It’s a journey isn’t it? You are exiting survival mode and finding more of a balance, so your feminine side is more free to come out. This guy sounds like he has been really good for you. I’m still curious though…what changed in the past 5 days? You came here looking for answers and wanting to possibly move forward with something romantic with him and now you don’t. What happened?
Even though my brain tells me that, I’ll be doing my very best to feel it in my heart too Yes, I understand this deeply. I have been on a healing journey for decades and there definitely is a big difference between knowing the truth and feeling/living/being the truth. I luckily have a coach who knows how to help people get the truth more deeply into their system. On the most basic level, all that is happening is that your adult self is able to know the truth, but your wounded self (child energy) is still carrying enough lies in her system, that it prevents the truth from getting into your beingness. So it’s basically our emotional baggage that gets in the way of all of us FEELING the truth deep in our hearts. But man, once it gets there, it’s in! No one can take it away from you. I hope this therapy will be able to offer that to you.
Heidi
Hi Corrine!
Oh I’ve never heard of anyone doing this therapy. I’m curious. If you happen to still be a member here, I’d love to hear how it has impacted your life. Very interesting!
So I’m curious. What specifically changed for you just in the past 5 days since your original post? You came here wanting something more from him and how to approach that and now you have no expectations and don’t want anything from him. So what has happened for you that has caused this shift?
This year, I plan on working on me first because I can’t be the best version of myself until I’m completely healed. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that this is your focus. It’s not an easy journey, but one well worth taking. So in your mind, what does completely healed look like to you? Personally, I don’t believe that is possible. I believe that for the rest of our lives we are learning and growing and in order to do that…we need pain, we need hurt, we need dysfunction – otherwise if we were completely healed, we would only have happy emotions and NEVER feel anything challenging. So what does completely healed mean to you? I also want to say that the best version of yourself is a fluid thing and constantly shifting and changing. Waiting until you reach that “best” version of yourself before you enter into a relationship is not realistic. Meaning, it’s absolutely okay for you to be messy and still be in a loving, nourishing, high functioning relationship. My point in saying all of this is to have you look at this idea of you have about yourself in the future (post therapy, healed etc.) and know that you are enough RIGHT NOW. You are lovable, worth knowing, and worth fighting for just as you are. It’s easy to get caught up into this idea of “I need to get better to get what I want or be a better person and it’s a lie. Your thought process is no different than someone thinking “I just need to lose this extra weight and THEN I can get or have…..” I get this train of thought AND learning to love and accept yourself JUST AS YOU ARE is one of the most important journeys you could ever take. Accepting ourselves does not mean we are not growing and learning…it just means that who we are in each moment is lovable.
Heidi
You have been through so much Corinne and it takes quite a bit of time to heal. What kinds of ways are you actively working on your healing?
Help me understand a little more about your situation. Have you ever met this “friend” in person? How often do you message each other? Do you both reach out pretty equally or are you the one initiating more often?
I’m glad you are cautious. That’s important. You have a lot of wounds that need healing, and those can definitely skew our perspective on a person and lead us into more challenging and stressful situations. It’s important to trust yourself and the decisions you make, especially when it comes to romance. Building up that inner trust means you are making healthy choices that protect your heart in a good way.
I just want to encourage you to be very careful with yourself. This guy sounds super supportive AND not available. It’s incredibly easy for ANY woman to fall into fantasy land with a guy who treats them well – and in fantasy land, he is “everything you want in a man.” This VERY easily leads you into wanting more and that is natural. These feelings will cause you to ignore what he is saying of NOT wanting a relationship and they will cause you to ignore paying attention to any red flags and cause you to begin to manipulate the relationship trying to turn it into something more than what it is right now. Us ladies LOVE to push a guy deeper into connection. We can’t help it. It’s sooooo natural and instinctive for us. We are the relationship caretakers of the world. As much as I know and understand about the realm of relationships, I do the same exact thing. So just watch yourself. Keep yourself grounded in what he is saying – he doesn’t want a relationship. And if he ever does, he will let you know. One way to help yourself is to find other people who can help you in the same way he does. He sounds like a great friend. Do you have other great friends that are female? Getting your needs met by different people is a great way to stay resourced, supported, and balanced.
Heidi
Hi Corinne!
Welcome! We are glad you are here asking for help about your situation. I think there is a lot more at play here than you realize, so let’s talk about this.
First, well done for finally separating from your ex husband. Disconnecting from a narcissist is extremely tough and scary. There are sooooo many side effects from being in relationship with someone who has those tendencies and it can take quite a while to heal. I’m glad you have been on your own to allow yourself to re-create who you are without him. I imagine you are still in contact with him, yes? How does that work? Are you able to keep strong in your boundaries? I imagine there is a custody agreement, so is that going smoothly between the both of you?
I understand why you would be attracted to this other guy. He is making you feel everything you were missing for over 2 decades. I love that you are feeling respected, I love that you are watching him care for your daughter, and I love that you like the kind of father that he is. Tell me more about him. How does your friendship work? Do you see each other a few time a week? Do you talk on the phone? Do you go out together with your kids? What’s the overall design of this connection?
I do want to say though, LISTEN to him. If he says he doesn’t want a relationship, he means it. For whatever reason, he is not open to that, so if you want to keep him in your life, it’s important you honor what he KNOWS he is ready for. At some point down the road, he will open up to the idea and hopefully you will be an option for him. The very best thing you can do for yourself and for him, is to put him in the friend box and continue getting to know him. I know it feels like he is everything you want in a man, but you hardly know him. You know a lot about him, but there still is so much behind the scenes that you have no idea about.
I aways coach that you don’t truly know someone and their character until you have seen them in their worst. Their worst pain, their most intense anger, their deepest hurt, their biggest disappointment. It’s actually the worst side of a person that will make or break the success of a relationship. So while this guy appears to be super great, you are just scratching the surface. You don’t know that he is actually a safe and respectful person when he is upset and hurting. You don’t know that he is someone who will stick around and work through things together. I can’t tell you how many times people are blindsided by their partner’s coping mechanisms and they learn the person they THOUGHT was respectful and kind and generous, also has a dark side that is mean, passive-aggressive and destructive. So….the reality is….you are only seeing the best side of this guy and that is NOT enough to say “he is EVERYTHING you want in a man.”
So slow things down and take this time getting to know him. Be VERY discerning and pay attention to ALL that he is, but look for those red flags most of all. We ALL have red flags, but some red flags are 100% deal breakers and other red flags are workable. You don’t want to find yourself in another relationship that breaks you down instead of building you up.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Oh yuk! That’s not fun getting sick! I’m glad you are on the mend though.
Yes, they are a secondary gain. The first, core primary need is to stay small and limited and the way they do that is by sabotaging what they really want – so impulses are high and they while they are sabotaging their success, they are also getting a hit of pleasure out of it – it’s a temporary fix of course, but it’s what I call an inauthentic pleasure. It’s a type of pleasure that is short lived and actually costs you something. Does this make sense?
And of course! I’m happy to talk you through your belief. One way to explore it, is to imagine it didn’t exist. Imagine that you didn’t have that belief and imagine that you had all the time in the world at your age to create the kind of relationship you actually want. What feelings come up with that? What thoughts show up? Also, see if you can locate the origin of this belief. Where or how did this belief get created in you?
Even if the therapist is not young, I still feel like they are like children next to me, from whom I cannot learn much. I understand how you feel. I want to encourage you to stay open though. Even though there were many teachers, therapists, trainers etc. that I had more experience and depth than, I never disregarded the idea that they may have a gem for me. Just the other day I was talking with my client (in the gym – I’m a strength coach as well) and he is a pretty basic kind of guy. I’m creating a keynote speech right now and I wanted to run some ideas by him to see how he responded and what his thoughts were. He was fantastic! As basic as he is, in his perspective and how he said certain things, it gave me exactly what I needed to know where I wanted to go next. So…keep your ego in check and always stay open to being taught by anyone. As long as you are open, all kinds of information is able to come towards you…even in ways you can’t even imagine. I need to remind myself of this sometimes!
As far as being “ready,” I’m curious….what makes you think or feel that you are not ready? I’ll email you the info
Heidi
Heidi
I’m glad you like that quote! I thought it would resonate well with you! You really might love Colorado. I live near Boulder and let me tell ya…Boulder has the highest PhD per capita in the U.S. I believe. There are a TON of engineers here of every kind, so your science mind would fit right in
I feel like a prisoner of self-limitations and false beliefs. You could not have said it any better! I 100% agree and know what that feels like. I still am stuck in certain areas of my life, but for the most part, I know exactly what I need to do to create emotional sovereignty for myself. We are all prisoners to those fears and beliefs and the pain that comes with it until we dive in and get to know them.
One of the ways you can begin exploring is looking at how those beliefs and limitations are actually serving you and helping you. I know this is a strange way to look at it, but let me break it down a bit. Here is an example…a woman is overweight and no matter what she does, she always ends up back to where she started. She can lose the weight but she is not able to keep it off because her old patterns and beliefs sneak right back in. How is her being fat serving her and helping her? She was sexually abused as a kid. The fat acts as a protective mechanism to keep her safe from male attention. The fat keeps her in low self esteem. The fat keeps her feeling small and embarrassed. The truth is, if she were to feel amazing in her body, if she were confident, if she truly knew her value, male attention would be something that she would have to navigate so feeling good and healthy means she would have to face that. So being fat means she won’t have to face it. Does this make sense?
Here is another example…a guy always impulsively spends his money. He lives paycheck to paycheck and even when he gets extra, he ends up spending it on stuff and then lands right back where he started…stressed about being able to pay his rent. How is this serving him? When he was young, he overheard conversations between his parents about how stressed they were financially. His dad would always get upset about how much money his mom was spending on their son and how that was adding so much stress to his dad being able to provide. His dad eventually left and never came back. The son ends up growing up believing that his dad left because of him and it was his fault that they had no money. So he absorbed this belief that he should be punished for causing so much pain to his mom and causing his dad to leave. Because of that belief, he ends up always living in stress financially because he doesn’t believe he deserves to be happy and that he only deserves enough to just get by. So he spends all the money to constantly keep himself in stress mode because he doesn’t deserve better. So his brokenness is protecting him from having to face the anger and the blame that deserves to be towards his father and not himself. He would rather keep his father in good graces in his mind, so he takes on the blame himself. Being broke is helping him avoid the choices his father made that deeply hurt him and his mom.
So how about exploring your belief that getting older means you are “running out of time.” What are some of the ways that belief is serving you?
This concept is definitely not something people are aware of within themselves. I only understand it and see it because I’m a deep diver and I have studied the language of the subconscious on many, many levels. So know this is also true for your guy AND he also is in a prison of his limitations and false beliefs and he just doesn’t have the capacity to look any further than being a slave to them. You however, are quite strong and able to explore yourself on this level. It makes you quite rare actually.
I have yet to find a limitation or false belief that at the core level is helping us and serving us. Usually it’s a belief or limitation protecting us even though on the surface level, it is causing A LOT of stress and challenge in our lives. So maybe this is something you can play with when exploring your false beliefs and limitations. How are they serving you? Because until you really get to the core root of that answer, they will always be with you.
But in my experience, our conversation with you is the deepest I’ve ever had with a therapist, believe it or not!This makes me sad, however I’m not surprised. I have been to sooooo many therapists and there have been a handful that had no idea how to help me, because I had actually gone deeper within myself than they had in their own lives and I’m not even a therapist! I had such deep levels of trauma though, so the only way I could heal was to dive into the darkness and find those crevices and caverns to free myself – and finding someone to help me do that was not easy. My coach however, far surpasses anyone I have ever worked with – because she herself goes that deep within. Whenever looking for a guide, you always have to find someone who is further along the path than you are. That’s the minimum requirement. So if you TRULY want to work towards your emotional freedom, then I will email you her contact info. and you can take it from it there. You won’t need to know what to talk about, as she will know exactly where to guide you. All you need to share is that you have this pattern of choosing partners who are emotionally unavailable and you are trying to let go of this current guy and heal and shift that pattern. That will just be entry point – and it will help her know which rabbit hole to take you down if you want to go there. And if you don’t…that’s okay too. It’s not a journey for everyone. Honestly, if you don’t feel like quitting, if you don’t feel like you want to run for the hills, then you are not really doing the deepest level of work. It’s uncomfortable and that’s putting it lightly. However, the results you get are inexplainable. The level of confidence, the level of love, the level of self-trust you get to feel – makes life soooooo much easier and peaceful. It’s been worth all the tears for sure.
Heidi
I just found this quote from Joe Dispenza and it could not be said any better than this: “Great opportunities are brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.”
You are so self-aware, and you are used to analyzing and expressing yourself, you understand what strings of your soul were touched and why. I think this is a result of your education, your curiosity and study of people and of course life experience. It truly is a gift to be seen by you. I so appreciate and value your respect and what you see in me. There is no way you could see this in me, if it didn’t exist in you as well. You are a fighter and you have a strength within you that is far beyond what you give yourself credit for. But I see it. I can see it because I recognize it from myself. Where I started and where I am today is a complete reshaping of everything I was shown and experienced growing up. Lots of stripping, lots of seeing the lies and stories that kept me in that invisible prison they create. I can see the prison you are in with all those looping stories and confusion and lies that keep you stuck in the pain. And I have no doubt you can break free. You have the kind of internal strength that is needed to do something like that.
Heidi, you’re doing this to me right now by talking to me. Do you mean doing it in a different format? yes, a different format where you are having a live conversation and someone can help you connect to the deeper wounds, the stories, the patterns etc. in the moment. What I am doing with you is just surface level. If you really want to heal, you need to go much deeper. I personally always have someone to work with. I used to go weekly, sometimes several times a week because of what I was dealing with, but now I am so much more clear that I rarely get triggered…BUT…I do get triggered so I always maintain a relationship with my coach.
You’ll probably say that this is something I should put out of my mind. You’re probably right, but I can’t do that right away. Actually, I don’t want you to get this out of your mind! I want you to dive into it! This is a juicy program and lie that has a lot of authority over you! I want you to explore this and work towards being free from it. There is no way something this strong can just be put out of your mind. It has deep roots in you and is affecting in more ways that you realize.
And as far as the men…where I live in Colorado, it’s one of the fittest cities in the nation. I am amazed at how many people (men included) are fit and attractive and healthy here in their mature ages. It is NOT uncommon for people in their 60s and 70s doing triathlons, hiking 12 hours from peak to peak, or riding their bikes 70+ miles in as a fun afternoon adventure. That being said, it’s a bit of an addiction as well and has an unbalanced vibe to it sometimes. LOL. So again, your worries and your story around all of this is based on a bunch of lies. But knowing and seeing that, is just the beginning. Diving into understanding where you learned this, why it’s sticking in your system, and how much it is impacting you – and of course releasing it….that’s the real journey to freedom.
Heidi
I so deeply understand. Being in control is where we all find safety, but then life reminds us, many times, that control is an illusion and that we can be out of control and powerless and still feel safe. This has been my journey and I have gotten there! My entire life can fall apart and I know how to feel safe, because I built that relationship within myself. The level of peace I get to have is such a wonderful way to move through life now. It’s not always a perfect process, but I always figure out how to get back to my center and connected to the truth faster and faster. This is what I want for you and times like this, will give you the GREATEST leaps in healing. The worse the pain, the greater the healing that is available for you and I know that is what you want on the deepest level.
When you are able to connect to your own pain in this way…when you are able to see it as your greatest teacher, it also allows you to observe others in their journey with pain from a higher, more conscious perspective – knowing their journey with pain is important for them too – and you can find peace in that as well.
Life presents all of us with people and situations to reveal where we not free. Your guy is discovering where he is not free and being held captive from the pain in his past. You discovered where your fear kept you captive. We All have an invisible prison that keeps us small and limited and it’s most revealed when we are trying to love on deeper levels. I think that is why I have studied love my entire life…nothing can trigger those deep, dark crevices in our psyche where are prisoners like love can. I’m the kind of person that will grab my flashlight and go right in to find out what’s there. There has never been a single time that I went there and didn’t come out a better person. I of course had experts that helped me along the way. It’s not a journey to take alone. So again, if you want a recommendation of the best guide I know, I’m happy to share her info.
And even though you are heading into a space of acceptance, it doesn’t mean we have to stop talking. Feel free to come here anytime and share your thoughts, the stories running in your system, or more questions. I’m here to hold space for you and to keep reminding you of the higher truth and connecting you back to the strength that is within you!
Heidi
I wish I could make up for what I put him through. Madeline, there is NOTHING to make up for. You were doing the best you could and your fear was valid. I know narcissists all to well and they are absolutely scary! And you did it! You did something sooooo major! AND….when you truly forgive yourself, then you will feel free from the whole thing and there will be NOTHING to make up for.
Listen…pain is a GIFT!!! It is the pain we feel that reveal the cracks in our system where our other hurts live. Pain shines a light on those DEEP cracks and gives us the opportunity to explore what’s in there and release what we have been holding onto. That’s how pain is here to serve each and every one of us. So while it absolutely SUCKS that you caused him great heartache by your choices, it is only shining a light on the other stuff he is holding onto from his past that NEEDS to be released if he is ever going to be free to truly love you or anyone else again. AND…that fact that it is a GREAT hurt, that’s showing that your choices were pressing on stuff he has been holding onto anyways, so yes you hurt him, but the level of hurt he felt is on HIM, not you. He has to take that journey on his own to his insides and it is NOT up to you to try and “make up” for his pain. You need to forgive and he needs to forgive and if neither of you can do that, there is no moving forward with a clean slate.
I know I could if given the chance, I guess that’s part of what I’m struggling to let go of too, my regret and guilt, and knowing I could do it right, now that I’ve faced my past. Regret and guilt are so incredibly powerful aren’t they? “what if I had done something different” is a feeling and thought that can torture someone for the rest of their lives. Here is what I know. If it wasn’t this, it would have been something different. There is always an illusion thinking that if you had made a different choice, that the outcome would have been different. You would still be together. The truth is, what lives deep within us, ALWAYS gets revealed in love. Love exposes EVERYTHING at some point in time, so even though your choices caused hurt, he has stuff living within him too that sabotages connection….as you are now experiencing and seeing about him. So even if you had faced your ex sooner, at some point, you both would have had to face another type of challenge. AND….let’s not forget that you faced one of the greatest fears of your life. Your freedom from the choice you made to finally face your ex is worth more than your guy. The loss of him motivated you and that’s the level of pain you needed to be in, in order to face your greatest fear. It’s just how it turned out and I want you to trust that there is no mistake in that. I know it feels like a mistake and I know how regret tortures you with that idea, but having lived the kind of life I have lived….there is one thing I am certain of…there are no mistakes. There is a timing to things, there are specific lessons that NEED to be learned, there are synchronicities far beyond what we will ever see. Trust that there is no mistake in what happened and that your relationship broke because of BOTH of you.
It’s such a tragic situation. I wish I could fast forward, or go back, or undo some of what I’ve done. But that’s not how it works! I don’t want to hurt him more. I won’t go there. It’s not fair and I don’t want to put him through more pain or stress. Thank you for pointing that out to me… I need to keep my compassion for him in my sights. Yes, it’s sad Madeline. But what isn’t sad is the strength you will gain by walking through the fire of this pain. What isn’t sad is that you will face your fears sooner than later now. What isn’t sad, is that the next love that comes into your life, whether with him or someone else, you will be a better partner. What isn’t sad is that you are becoming MORE of who you are and you are becoming a better version of yourself because of this. So is it really tragic??? I’d say not.
Heidi
Hi Darya,
First, thank you for sharing your poem. It truly is beautiful and so so powerful. I could feel the depth of you and you marrying the struggle and the beauty together as one. You are connected to some very deep and hard truths of life. Wow!
Yes, I want to leave here, but only because I don’t have people left who love me and with whom I feel comfortable here. Isn’t it natural to want to be around people who make you happy, like my son and my grandchildren? I won’t stop working on my personal growth, I can do that from wherever I live, right? What do you suggest? Stay where I am and continue to communicate with that guy and my sister? Isn’t that an escape from the problem? Of course it’s natural to want to be around people who love you. And yes, you can grow wherever you live! I’m not saying you should stay or not go. I’m saying to look deeper into it. I have lived MANY places where I knew absolutely no one. I had to start completely from scratch and that meant that I had to face being alone and finding ways to find comfort and connection within myself, until I built up my world again. I moved every 2 years for about 15 years to a new place – either a new state or a completely different city far from where I was at. I learned how to create home within myself and not rely on others to make me feel that. I learned how to create new connections each time and find my support system. There is an emptiness that lives within you filled by toxic people – so when they go away or betray you, you are in that void again and in suffering. All I’m doing is encouraging you to do it different this time. Learn how to fill yourself up and strengthen your inner landscape so that WHEN your life falls apart around you, you don’t go with it. But if you are drawn to move closer to your other family, then do it, but don’t stop fighting for yourself. Make sure that you don’t fill that void with your son and grandkids – keep doing the inner work!
Meeting someone doesn’t necessarily mean starting a new serious love relationship, it can just be friendship. While you have that intention, it’s not based on truth. If you are “dating” then, it’s assumed that any guy you meet is looking for a love interest, especially at your age…or they are looking for sex. Either way, friendship is NOT on the table. If you just wanted friendship, then go make female friends and stay away from men. Men and women CANNOT be just friends on any deep level. Surface friends, sure…but considering the state you are in right now, staying away from men completely is the wisest choice.
Why couldn’t he have the courage to tell me he was done? Why did he leave his foot in the door? Wasn’t he sure he didn’t want to come back someday? But it wasn’t fair to me to give him false hope. I understand all of these questions. I know you are confused. Would you be willing to just let those questions go unanswered? You are trying to find the answers to questions because you are trying to get out of pain, by having a deeper understanding of the “why” behind his choices. We all do this AND that is not where you are going to find relief. I want to invite you into acceptance. The answers to all of these questions DO NOT change the outcome. So do the answers really matter? The answer to all these questions is that he is deeply wounded, so his response to life is going to be confusing. He is so split, so one moment he feels one way and then the next he feels a completely different way. This is DEEP wounding – so he is just as confused as you are. So yes, he wanted to be with you AND no he doesn’t want to be with you. That’s the best he could ever offer you and that has nothing to do with you. It’s best if you stop yourself from spinning in circles to try to make sense of a guy who has 2 VERY strong parts of him who feel 2 VERY different ways towards you. He is NOT whole. He is NOT integrated.
I actually signed up for a few online courses based on ideas from Joe Dispenza, John Kehoe, etc. They are helpful, but it takes a long time to complete all the assignments. But I do my best, I do it at my own pace and I don’t give up. While courses can be helpful, you need someone to talk to. You have sooooo many stories and lies running around in that head of yours, you need someone to guide you through the mess and chaos you are managing right now.
I think I’m running out of time to build a new full-fledged relationship. As I age, I lose my attractiveness and self-confidence. Who the heck has taught you this? There is NO truth in this statement. I know PLENTY of women who are absolutely gorgeous in their 70s and 80s. It’s NEVER too late to fall in love and have a relationship. Where the heck did this belief system come from? If your self confidence is tied to how you look, then NOW is the perfect time to face that. You are lovable and worth knowing, regardless of what you look like. I know men in their 70s who deeply love their overweight, wrinkled wives! I understand your fears as society has contributed to this thought system, but I want to invite you to strengthen yourself BEYOND this thought system. DO NOT give your power away to those lies.
Heidi
Hi Madeline! Thank you for sharing more detail. It’s helpful in understanding your mindset and what has happened up to this point.
It makes me so mad that he’s letting fear stand in the way of the amazing life we could share. Yes! This is absolutely sad AND I imagine you would understand his fear as you put him through the same exact thing for 2.5 years. Your fear stopped growth and intimacy and your future together – so you KNOW how powerful fear is.
Unfortunately, very few people are equipped in handling fear, especially when it comes to love. It’s super tough, because the reality is, love is unpredictable and you can’t control what the other will do or who they choose to be, so in essence, we are ALL powerless in relationships – and that’s where fear thrives….people become terrified of feeling powerless to fix things or change things or being hurt by their partner’s choices…as you are experiencing now. Whatever his fear is, it’s MASSIVE and it’s more powerful than any love he feels – just like your fear was.
The other day I text all this nonsense basically begging him to reply. Sayibig I was going crazy with frusration and just wanted to have a conversation, nothing scary. He didn’t respond. So the hnext day I apoliogized and said sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me and for pestering him, and telling him he’ll always be my hero for pulling me out of the dark and making me take my power back. Listen Madeline, you are going crazy because you keep fighting against what is. This is what powerlessness does. It brings in a level of suffering that feels unbearable. I want to invite you into surrendering to what is happening. The more you fight it, the more your misery and suffering will grow. Instead, work towards acceptance as that is where you will find peace. It doesn’t mean you won’t hurt, acceptance just means the added layer of suffering and your need to reach out to him in the way you do, will not be there. Acceptance also doesn’t mean that your situation can’t change, because it absolutely can change. Acceptance just means you stop fighting against it. I know this is much easier said than done though.
I’m working with another relationship coach who is considering letting me drive to where he lives and confront him, bc my need for closure is just getting the better of me. I want to strongly advise against this for 2 reasons. First, he has clearly put up some boundaries. I don’t care how much hurt you are in, it’s not a reason to cross someone else’s boundaries. All you will be communicating to him is that you don’t respect his choice and that you are going to FORCE what you want and ignore what he has decided. That is disrespectful and very dishonoring of him. Second, you DO NOT need to talk to him to get closure. I know that’s what you believe, but it’s not true. I have created closure for myself countless times without ever talking to those who have hurt me. Closure is all yours WITHOUT ever talking to him. Closure means forgiving him and his choice. Closure means forgiving yourself for your choices. Closure means accepting his choice. Closure means facing the pain directly instead of trying to avoid it by forcing or begging him to talk to you. Closure means surrendering to how powerless you are. I want to invite you to do the work instead of looking to HIM to fix your pain. You can heal all on your Madeline. I know that is not what you want to do and I deeply understand that. However, there are MANY gifts in this for you and skills that you can develop if you work with your pain on your own. AND….by doing that, you will be clearing out old baggage as well – and who’s to say that at some point along the way, your guy decides to open back up to you. But I will tell you this…the more you chase him, the more you keep crossing his boundaries, the more you will cause him to reinforce his walls and the more he will lose respect for you. You are letting your desperation take over and that is no way to solve anything.
I wish he would just give me a chance. Talk, no pressure just talk to me. It’s really unfair. I know it’s unfair. It wasn’t fair for you to choose your ex for those 2.5 years while he begged you to do something about it. That wasn’t fair either, so instead of getting upset with him for his choices, how about you find the same level of patience that he showed you. He lasted for 2.5 years and you haven’t even made it a few months without crossing his boundaries several times.
>I have considered reaching out to 2 of his friends, or one of their wives, but have never done it bc I think it would annoy him. Again, DO NOT do this. All you will do is teach him that you will not respect his boundaries. I guarantee you that reaching out this HIS people will only anger him, not annoy him, but anger him. Be patient. HE NEEDS to be the one to come to you WHEN HE IS READY. That may or may not happen, who knows. Either way, trying to reconnect with him by ignoring his boundaries is NOT what is going to open him back up to you. Besides, even if you did force your way into standing in front of him, most likely his energy will be closed, his walls will be up, and it won’t be an open conversation. If he comes to you, that means his heart will be OPEN to talking. That’s what you want, right?? The best way to do that is to respect his choice, deal with your pain, find acceptance and keep moving forward.
But I think he also holds grudges. I just worry that I broke his heart and he’s just too afraid to be vulnerable one more time. He was vulnerable with me, and I messed it up. Listen Madeline, you may have broken his heart, but he is a grown man and his choice to block you and ignore you is HIS choice. There isn’t a person alive who hasn’t had a broken heart at least once…if not several times. We each have a choice of how we will respond to that. For him, he is choosing to shut down. He is choosing to let fear wall off his heart. If he holds onto grudges like you think, that means he doesn’t know how and is not willing to forgive completely. So that means his heart is paying the price for those choices and that means he never openly and whole heartedly is able to love anyone. So yes, you made many mistakes and you are doing everything you can right those mistakes. If he is not able to forgive and let go of the pain he carries from all of that, then that is on HIM and has nothing to do with you. DO NOT take responsibility for his choice to shut down. Yes, you hurt him, but that is what is guaranteed in relationships and the ones that make it, are the ones that work through things TOGETHER and they CHOOSE to forgive. He is showing you that he is not willing to do that….at least not at this point. So forgive yourself, forgive him, respect his choice and say goodbye to your relationship. Again, saying goodbye means you letting go of how things used to be. It doesn’t mean a new relationship cannot be created by the both of you down the road. It just means that you needs to deal with TODAY only.
I know this is not what you want to hear. I know you so badly want to get out of this pain. But I want to encourage you to step into it and allow this pain to be your teacher. You faced a MASSIVE fear with your ex and you won. If you can do that, you can face this pain head on and work towards healing.
If you want some help, I’m happy to recommend my coach. She is the most brilliant person I know when it comes to healing. She will require you to do the work though and maybe you are not ready for that. I don’t know. You may decide to give into your desperation and do whatever it takes to get in front of him. And while that is not the course of action I suggest, I understand why you would want to go that route. I know I’ve done that before and I paid the price – and maybe that’s what needs to happen for you. I honor that choice as sometimes it’s the most painful way to learn, which is many times the best way we learn.
I believe in you though. You are stronger than you think.
Heidi
Hi Madeline! Thank you for sharing more detail. It’s helpful in understanding your mindset and what has happened up to this point.
It makes me so mad that he’s letting fear stand in the way of the amazing life we could share. Yes! This is absolutely sad AND I imagine you would understand his fear as you put him through the same exact thing for 2.5 years. Your fear stopped growth and intimacy and your future together – so you KNOW how powerful fear is.
Unfortunately, very few people are equipped in handling fear, especially when it comes to love. It’s super tough, because the reality is, love is unpredictable and you can’t control what the other will do or who they choose to be, so in essence, we are ALL powerless in relationships – and that’s where fear thrives….people become terrified of feeling powerless to fix things or change things or being hurt by their partner’s choices…as you are experiencing now. Whatever his fear is, it’s MASSIVE and it’s more powerful than any love he feels – just like your fear was.
The other day I text all this nonsense basically begging him to reply. Sayibig I was going crazy with frusration and just wanted to have a conversation, nothing scary. He didn’t respond. So the hnext day I apoliogized and said sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me and for pestering him, and telling him he’ll always be my hero for pulling me out of the dark and making me take my power back. Listen Madeline, you are going crazy because you keep fighting against what is. This is what powerlessness does. It brings in a level of suffering that feels unbearable. I want to invite you into surrendering to what is happening. The more you fight it, the more your misery and suffering will grow. Instead, work towards acceptance as that is where you will find peace. It doesn’t mean you won’t hurt, acceptance just means the added layer of suffering and your need to reach out to him in the way you do, will not be there. Acceptance also doesn’t mean that your situation can’t change, because it absolutely can change. Acceptance just means you stop fighting against it. I know this is much easier said than done though.
I’m working with another relationship coach who is considering letting me drive to where he lives and confront him, bc my need for closure is just getting the better of me. I want to strongly advise against this for 2 reasons. First, he has clearly put up some boundaries. I don’t care how much hurt you are in, it’s not a reason to cross someone else’s boundaries. All you will be communicating to him is that you don’t respect his choice and that you are going to FORCE what you want and ignore what he has decided. That is disrespectful and very dishonoring of him. Second, you DO NOT need to talk to him to get closure. I know that’s what you believe, but it’s not true. I have created closure for myself countless times without ever talking to those who have hurt me. Closure is all yours WITHOUT ever talking to him. Closure means forgiving him and his choice. Closure means forgiving yourself for your choices. Closure means accepting his choice. Closure means facing the pain directly instead of trying to avoid it by forcing or begging him to talk to you. Closure means surrendering to how powerless you are. I want to invite you to do the work instead of looking to HIM to fix your pain. You can heal all on your Madeline. I know that is not what you want to do and I deeply understand that. However, there are MANY gifts in this for you and skills that you can develop if you work with your pain on your own. AND….by doing that, you will be clearing out old baggage as well – and who’s to say that at some point along the way, your guy decides to open back up to you. But I will tell you this…the more you chase him, the more you keep crossing his boundaries, the more you will cause him to reinforce his walls and the more he will lose respect for you. You are letting your desperation take over and that is no way to solve anything.
I wish he would just give me a chance. Talk, no pressure just talk to me. It’s really unfair. I know it’s unfair. It wasn’t fair for you to choose your ex for those 2.5 years while he begged you to do something about it. That wasn’t fair either, so instead of getting upset with him for his choices, how about you find the same level of patience that he showed you. He lasted for 2.5 years and you haven’t even made it a few months without crossing his boundaries several times.
>I have considered reaching out to 2 of his friends, or one of their wives, but have never done it bc I think it would annoy him. Again, DO NOT do this. All you will do is teach him that you will not respect his boundaries. I guarantee you that reaching out this HIS people will only anger him, not annoy him, but anger him. Be patient. HE NEEDS to be the one to come to you WHEN HE IS READY. That may or may not happen, who knows. Either way, trying to reconnect with him by ignoring his boundaries is NOT what is going to open him back up to you. Besides, even if you did force your way into standing in front of him, most likely his energy will be closed, his walls will be up, and it won’t be an open conversation. If he comes to you, that means his heart will be OPEN to talking. That’s what you want, right?? The best way to do that is to respect his choice, deal with your pain, find acceptance and keep moving forward.
But I think he also holds grudges. I just worry that I broke his heart and he’s just too afraid to be vulnerable one more time. He was vulnerable with me, and I messed it up. Listen Madeline, you may have broken his heart, but he is a grown man and his choice to block you and ignore you is HIS choice. There isn’t a person alive who hasn’t had a broken heart at least once…if not several times. We each have a choice of how we will respond to that. For him, he is choosing to shut down. He is choosing to let fear wall off his heart. If he holds onto grudges like you think, that means he doesn’t know how and is not willing to forgive completely. So that means his heart is paying the price for those choices and that means he never openly and whole heartedly is able to love anyone. So yes, you made many mistakes and you are doing everything you can right those mistakes. If he is not able to forgive and let go of the pain he carries from all of that, then that is on HIM and has nothing to do with you. DO NOT take responsibility for his choice to shut down. Yes, you hurt him, but that is what is guaranteed in relationships and the ones that make it, are the ones that work through things TOGETHER and they CHOOSE to forgive. He is showing you that he is not willing to do that….at least not at this point. So forgive yourself, forgive him, respect his choice and say goodbye to your relationship. Again, saying goodbye means you letting go of how things used to be. It doesn’t mean a new relationship cannot be created by the both of you down the road. It just means that you needs to deal with TODAY only.
I know this is not what you want to hear. I know you so badly want to get out of this pain. But I want to encourage you to step into it and allow this pain to be your teacher. You faced a MASSIVE fear with your ex and you won. If you can do that, you can face this pain head on and work towards healing.
If you want some help, I’m happy to recommend my coach. She is the most brilliant person I know when it comes to healing. She will require you to do the work though and maybe you are not ready for that. I don’t know. You may decide to give into your desperation and do whatever it takes to get in front of him. And while that is not the course of action I suggest, I understand why you would want to go that route. I know I’ve done that before and I paid the price – and maybe that’s what needs to happen for you. I honor that choice as sometimes it’s the most painful way to learn, which is many times the best way we learn.
I believe in you though. You are stronger than you think.
Heidi
Hi Madeline!
Wow! You have really been through quite a bit. I understand your fear about your ex and I am so proud of you for finally facing that fear. That took a lot of courage and you made it!!! I’m so sorry that it took the loss of your boyfriend to finally get to that place. I know it deeply hurts to lose the person you want to build your life with.
I don’t know what is happening for him that he is not even willing to talk with you. I’m curious…whenever you would have any type of disagreement, how would he respond? Is he the type to stick with it and talk with you or is he the type to run and not want to talk about things? What are his coping mechanisms? I’m also wondering how he is at forgiving. Some people hold onto the pain from their past like a dog with a bone and if he is that type, my guess is, you won’t get back into his good graces…and even if you do, he will most likely hold a part of himself back from you.
He is either running from his feelings and he has the type of emotional system that shuts down pretty quickly or he is still in a lot of pain and NOT talking to you is a way to keep protecting himself from coming back to you. Either way, he has some work to do on himself. You have done everything you can to try and reconnect and I’m not seeing anything else you can do other than giving him some space for right now. How long has it been since you last talked?
I also hate to ask this, but is there any possibility he is dating someone new? I’m not sure if there is a way to find out, but it is something to consider. Rebounds are pretty common for guys that are hurting.
Heidi
Hi Amanda,
So it sounds like you have taken quite a journey into the deeper therapies offered out there. Are you currently in therapy? If not, now would be a good time to start back up again. I’m happy to recommend my coach. She is one of the most brilliant people I have ever come across and her methods work SUPER fast. She has her PhD in Psychology and she works with people all around the nation virtually. If you want to try someone new, she is my top choice. Just let me know if you are interested and I am happy to email you her contact info. If you are already in therapy, then consider upping your appointments to work through this.
He quickly went from internalizing his issues to externalizing them and making it a reflection of me; that I just made him feel like a flawed person and a failure. You made him feel BOTH sides of himself. I’m sure that dating you, he realized more about what he is capable of, both in his best and his worst. The problem is, his worst side is harmful and toxic and ruins BOTH yours and his self-esteem.
At various times he would be appreciative and even curious to learn more, or ask me to write things down, or one time he asked me to send him info handouts from my previous therapist regarding conflict avoidance. There was also a time he told me I was the only person in his life who has ever “held his feet to the fire” to make him see that he needs to make a change. The thing is Amanda, YOU are the one bringing all of this information to him and it’s not HIM doing the work himself. He is not making ANY effort to face himself. You cannot do it for him. You have done everything you can to show him things, teach him, expose him, confront him…and still he is running. That is his answer and it’s important that you honor that.
I did learn to stop talking like that with him and just held on for the day he actually made the therapist appointment. I gave him tons and tons of affirmations throughout the relationship. I tried to show him stability. I needed the same care, though. Only in hindsight do I see that there were times he was showing me he cared at the max of his capacity and in his own way. This is the core problem. BOTH sides of him are incredibly strong, but his darker side is who ultimately wins out each time. I know that was a very powerful moment for you when he opened up and made that list and was vulnerable with you. You are “the only one” he has ever done that with. That’s a STRONG fishhook for you. Meaning, being “the only one” is a HUGE does of self-esteem for you and makes you FINALLY feel seen and feel valuable. This is an energetic drug. I am VERY familiar with this, as this was also my drug of choice. I heard that a lot too….”you are the only one….” but then there was ALWAYS the withdrawal effects (like you are currently experiencing) and so I would go out and find another person I could get my self esteem hit from. I was VERY good at it too. It took me many years and hundreds of hours of therapy to shift this pattern and it’s such a relief! I am free and that’s what I want for you too. Whatever therapy you have done in your past, you are not done. You still have a ways to go, but that’s okay! Keep fighting for more in your life!
He told me after he blindsided me with the breakup that he felt so much relief not being with me anymore. It’s SO painful to know that that is both true and not at the same time. I’m sure he does feel relieved, like you said he was tortured being in a relationship a lot of the time. But, I also do know the genuine moments of happiness he felt. Yes, being in relationship is incredibly tough for him and you sure have taken an emotional beating by it too.
But that moment and several others are why this is SO hard for me to let go of. Why it’s so hard for me that he isn’t leaning into what we had and getting help. That instead in the end he chose to decide there wasn’t really anything wrong with him; that it was actually just me and he had no feelings for me, so on to the next person. I know it’s hard for you. It’s so tough watching someone choose their darker side, KNOWING they have it in them to heal. Let go Amanda. You will NEVER win this battle with him. Let him be who he wants to be. He deserves that from you. Leave him alone. All your love and your efforts to help, only end up hurting him in the end. You are NOT healthy for him. You trigger him soooooo much and being that he is not the type to face those triggers, all that happens is him feeling worse about himself. Do you see that your love is actually not good for him? Your love triggers his worst side. His happiness is what triggers his dark side. Do you understand this and see this? If he were just left alone, with NO ONE telling him about all his issues and how he needs help, he would live a much more peaceful life. Let him have that. He NEEDS to have this peace instead of constantly dealing with this BIG split he is constantly having to manage when you are in his life. Love him enough to let him be peaceful.
This was my shortest relationship but by far I would say it was my deepest connection and I don’t want to lose him in my life. So let’s put a spin on this Amanda. You don’t want to lose him? You never had him in the first place. Is all of that rejection and gaslighting worth those connected moments you have with him that NEVER ONCE have sustained? Rejection and gaslighting are a VERY HIGH price for those fleeting moments of feeling good with him. NO ONE will ever have him, because he doesn’t even have himself. I know it’s the deepest connection you have ever felt, but look what you have to compare it to. You have NEVER felt a connection that was actually healthy, high functioning, nourishing, stable, and supportive. And while this guy got in deeper, he still cannot offer you any of those qualities.
You have a choice to make Amanda. What do you want? A healthy, nourishing, deeply connective relationship? If yes, then it’s time for you to dig deeper and work on the wounded part of you holding onto this guy for dear life. It’s time for you to face this pain that is being triggered within you and transform it into inner strength. If you want this guy, you get to have him, but you are fooling yourself to think that your pain will go away. You will just be trading one pain for another and you will find NO relief.
All you wanted was for him to get help and face his issues and you don’t understand why he won’t. Well….here you are, not facing your own issues. You are wanting HIM to fix your pain and heartache and you are letting desperation take over your system. You KNOW this connection is harming you and is highly dysfunctional, yet you are continuing to hold onto it. That is no different than what he is doing. He is just trying to find relief as fast as possible OUT of the pain and in doing so, he is avoiding the deeper issue here and NOT willing to do the real work. I know you have done a lot of therapy AND right now, you are running away and looking for that quick fix that doesn’t solve anything. Take what you KNOW and get into action and get help so you can create movement AWAY from this relationship that is harming you.
You get to choose Amanda. Either path means you are facing A LOT of pain and hurt. Path 1 of letting him go means you are facing the pain of the loss of him and every other loss in your life, but at least it’s a path of healing and you are working your way OUT of the pain. Path 2 of continuing to idealize him and wanting to keep fighting for him is a path of pain sourced by constant rejection, instability, criticizing, and blaming/shaming. There is NO END to that pain and it will slowly destroy you until you have very little left of yourself. You get to choose. So what do you want?
Heidi
