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Hi Daria, I know your heartbreak all to well. I am soooo so sorry. I would never wish this on anyone. Losing a love, letting go of your dreams with him, saying goodbye to the part of yourself that existed WITH him and creating a new version without him….it’s all incredibly tough. I believe in you Daria. You WILL get through this and there will be a day that you all of a sudden realize you didn’t think about him 100,000 times that day. New life, new laughter, new experiences, new memories without him…many of these things are waiting for you to find them and you will. It’s going to take some time and patience, but you will get there. I believe that with all my heart.
I don’t think he’s felt so loved and adored with anyone else! How can he put me in the same category as women who have only hurt him in his past? This’s so unfair! I know this isn’t fair. It’s incredibly frustrating. We all do it though…mostly on a subconscious level. There is not a human being alive that doesn’t come to the table with baggage…with pain from the past…with stories about love, money, health, ourselves, others…and it’s impossible not to put people in boxes they don’t belong in. You did it to him too. We all do it all the time, so it’s quite normal. The only difference between me and you and him and anyone else out there, is what we do about it, how much we are conscious of it, and whether we let fear control us or choose to embrace it and face…the latter being the very rare choice for people. I call those areas “fault lines.” They are cracks in our system full of lies, programs, our low self-esteem etc. and most people are not willing to jump into those cracks to shine a light on what lives in there. I get it. It’s extremely scary. You are wanting to run away as well. You are thinking about dating again, you are surrounding yourself with people, you are wanting to leave where you live and build a life somewhere else….and while none of those things are bad or wrong, you are wanting to do all of those things because you are trying to get away from the hurt, instead of facing it….just like your guy does. And look at how his choice to run away sabotaged the best thing he has ever had in you!
And then I saw him and all my optimism evaporated. I know I should block my thoughts, but I can’t stop thinking about this man, he has become an obsession for me, almost unreal, living in my imagination 24/7. This is very normal Daria. Letting go of love is incredibly difficult. Here is a short video talking about it and maybe it will help you better understand what is happening. https://youtu.be/k0GQSJrpVhM?si=c6Dx3yxJU8omji1R
I am thinking about dating other guys soon. You say I should probably be alone for a while to calm down and heal. However, I have been alone for 8 months now and feeling alone doesn’t help much Feeling alone is EXACTLY what you need to do to help yourself heal. 8 months means nothing. It’s more about how healed you are. Your guy is the perfect example. It’s been a handful of years since he was cheated on, right? Yet, he is still carrying the wound as if it happened yesterday. Time DOES NOT heal all wounds….it just buries it. So if truly want to heal, you have to step into exactly what you are wanting to run from. I suggest finding someone who can help you navigate this and turn this heartbreak into the greatest and most powerful teacher for you. Or…you can try and navigate this by yourself….but honestly, you won’t get very far, because you don’t actually know where to look, what to do, how to recognize the patterns within yourself…unless you have someone trained and objective acting as your guide. Is that something you would be willing to do?
Am I a terrible mother and grandmother? Sometimes I feel like my son is upset that I do not move closer to them. I tried before but it is not easy to find a job for my status and I could not leave my beloved man… Now maybe it’s time I start looking for a job there again. I want to leave a place where no one cares about me. Here my heart was broken by my boyfriend and my sister. I’m already 55 and I don’t want to waste the rest of my life in unhappiness. I don’t know how you built your inner circle and how long it took No, you are not a terrible mother or grandmother. You have your moments, just like everyone does, but that does not define ALL of who you are. You are limited, messy, hurtful, controlling AND loving, deeply caring, courageous, curious, powerful, strong. You are ALL of these things put together and so is everyone else. You are doing the very best you can and while that means that you make bad decisions sometimes, it doesn’t mean that is who you are.
I understand your desire to leave. Maybe that is a good idea and you can get a fresh start. AND…if that is in the cards for you, it’s going to take some time for that to happen, so for now…you are there and need to face the pain of rejection from your sister and him. Your heart is broken and I would love to see you work on healing it directly and then everything will fall into place exactly as it should and in the right timing. Your only job is self care, self love, learning, growing, and forgiving – so you can free yourself and not bring this pain into your next relationship.
Why do people of your blood, your siblings, the people who are supposed to be your closest friends, hurt you the most?! Why do they make these choices? Yes, this is a question I have dealt with a lot from people. There are many layers to this question and too difficult to explain this here, so I’ll give you the simple answer….they hurt you the most because fear is their leader. Most people bury their own pain and run from it – thinking that it’s gone, but all that happens is it pollutes their entire system and it leaks out in every aspect of their lives…their health, their relationships, their money habits…every aspect of their lives is affected by that pain that has been buried. Most people have no clue how NOT to do, which is why I am here. I learned how to face it and become empowered. I learned the skills to help me manage it. I learned how to build trust within myself to handle anything in a healthy, conscious way. I have freedom from my past. I have freedom from the pain of losing my brothers. I feel 100% clear and in acceptance of what is, because I worked at it and didn’t run from it. I have worked with various healers and therapists for the past 30 years and will continue until my very last breath. So…when people don’t face their pain, it causes harm to the people they value most. It’s so sad, but I understand it too and I have compassion for people who choose to run instead of facing their baggage.
I know you are deeply hurting and I wish I could ease your pain. I suggest working with it. Try journaling every single day. Write at least 3 pages and let it all out. You can dance your anger and pain. Find songs that can activate those feelings in you and just dance. Look up “tapping and breakups” on the internet and start doing those patterns they suggest. It’s a very powerful modality, although many struggle with it because it’s a tool that seems too easy, but give it a shot!!! Watch some movies to encourage you where you watch the main character get knocked down and get back up again. I love Under the Tuscan Sun for helping with heartbreak. Listen to podcasts that can help educate you and equip you with more knowledge and understand about yourself. One of my favorites is “Know Thyself.” Fight for yourself Daria. Fight for more than just thinking about him 24/7. Dig into your feelings and get to know them on a deeper level…where do they come from? what are your stories about love? what fears do you have?
I’m curious…you say you are 55 and running out of time. Running out of time to do what?
Heidi
Hi Daria! I am so so sorry that you are coming to this conclusion. I know it’s heartbreaking and it is a very big loss. It’s so incredibly challenging to have someone so close and be so intimate on many levels and then now…they are not healthy for you. There are so many layers to what is happening and I’m sure some of it is confusing for you. Let me go through an address some of what you said in defense of him, and see if I can help you understand more.
However, I feel some internal resistance to fully agree with you. Because you have never met my boyfriend, and I have not given you all the details of our history that could justify him First, I want to be more clear here. I know I am focusing ONLY on his limitations and not giving him, or you, credibility for the good stuff. One of my challenges on this forum is I get so focused on helping someone understand the limitations that are contributing to the pattern that I come across as if I am saying the guy is bad or wrong and you should leave. That is actually not what I am meaning to do. I focus so much on the shadow side, because that is where ALL of our limitations live and that’s the side that people are struggling with – but it’s not ALL I see. I also see the great stuff. I also KNOW that you would not have fallen in love with him if there were not a ton of wonderful things about him. Every single one of us has a great side and a not so great side and I am a firm believe in embracing ALL of it – but because the darker side is the hardest part, that’s where I end up focusing. So hopefully this makes sense to you. There is actually no need to justify him.
Second, even though I have not met your guy, I know patterns and what they mean. For example, the pattern of addiction comes with a foundational set of emotional challenges, regardless of the personality. Another example, the pattern of someone stonewalling their partner (not being available to talk things through) is driven by a HUGE amount of fear (whether the person is aware of it or not) and that is the same for every single person. The REASONS for why stonewalling is a pattern is where the variation from person to person shows up. Does this make sense?
You: For women, we are defined by relationships – connection. We can lose our jobs and be okay, but take away our relationships and we fall apart. This isn’t a real truth for me. I am probably very similar to a man, as I am a scientist What I would say to this, is just because you don’t feel that way or operate that way, doesn’t mean it isn’t true for you. What we feel and how we operate on a day to day basis is soooooo polluted by our upbringing, our beliefs, our stories, our programs etc. so truly understanding how we would operate from a core level is extremely difficult to know UNLESS we have deeply explored ourselves. But as you have already discovered, when your work fell apart, your relationship became more important, so that is a clue that relationships are more valuable to you than you actually think. Just something to think about. I’m not disregarding how you feel or how you know yourself. You could be absolutely right. I’m just playing devil’s advocate here and giving you something to think about.
Sometimes I think he expected me to chase him and apologize as proof of my love. But because I didn’t, he concluded that I didn’t love him enough. Do I sound crazy? Sometimes I feel like I’m overthinking and over-reading things. That’s why I appreciate your sober assessment of my assumptions. I would say that you have a pretty accurate assessment. His response to being cheated on and creating “rules” is a pretty normal reaction and yes, it’s very common for someone who has not forgiven and released the hurt, to fall in love again and EXPECT to be hurt again, cheated on again, left again…whatever story they have created. His reaction is pretty standard and he will be like that the rest of his life until he faces the pain he is holding onto that is “protecting” him from deeply loving again. This has nothing to do with you specifically. He is going to do this to any woman who tries and gets close.
But I was sooo disappointed and I couldn’t help it. I understand your disappointment about how he chose to handle the passing of his mother. However, what is MORE important here to understand is that instead of dealing with your disappointment and the story you had about what that meant about him, you caused harm to your relationship in hopes to change him. I also want to point out that the feeling of “I couldn’t help it” should help you also understand how HE feels. He also feels that he can’t help it. He is SO afraid of being hurt again so he puts walls up. That is not different than you feeling SO disappointed in his choices that you also acted in a certain way. Do you see how he is hurting the relationship in the same way you are? This is what everybody LOVES to do….point the finger at the other person who is causing the hurt. It’s the easy path, it feels justified, and it prevents us from REALLY facing the deeper truth that is sourcing our feelings. The truth is, ALL of how we feel is our responsibility and for no one else to fix. Other people can assist us and help us along the journey, but ultimately, how we each feel about what others say or do, is our own. All of us have different filters, different ways of looking at life, different reactions to the same exact events. A question I always give my clients whenever they are wanting someone else to do or be something different than they are is this: “what are you wanting THEM to do for you, that you are not willing to do for yourself?” So you wanted HIM to care about his mother and keep his kids connected to his mother’s passing etc. Let’s look at this on a deeper level. You were watching him NOT care about his own mother, so that is a reflection of him not caring about you either on the level you were deeply craving. If he could do that to his own mother, he sure as heck could do that to you. So you trying to change him and get him to care was your way of trying to get him to care more about you. So circling back around to the question: What were you wanting him to do for you? care and honor more deeply about his own mother, which would also show that could care and honor YOU more deeply as well: That you were not willing to do for yourself? You were not willing to care for yourself. You chose a man who is emotionally unavailable and not set up to care for you deeply or honor the depth of love you had to offer him. So in essence, you made a choice to hand your heart over to a man who did not have the ability to care for it properly and that was not a caring thing to do for yourself. So instead of seeing that he was not equipped to offer you what you wanted, you kept trying to fight for this relationship by getting HIM to care for you, because you were not caring for yourself. This is a pretty advanced concept, so hopefully you are able to see where I am heading with this. Anytime we are looking to someone else to change so we can feel better, that is an INSTANT sign that you are missing something WITHIN YOU and whatever is missing, fill it yourself and stop looking for the other person to change so you can feel better. Most people operate this way because they don’t know any better until they learn what is happening within themselves. It’s so much easier to look to the other person to fix how we are feelings, however it’s always why the divorce rate is so high. It’s also why the majority of relationships we are witnessing are far from healthy. It’s a tough journey to turn inwards, but the gifts you will get from it are FAR beyond what I can even explain here.
I still think that if we could talk and clear things up, if I could explain to him that I love him, that he is valuable to me, that he can trust me, we could repair our relationship and be good and happy partners. This is a very optimistic and idealistic viewpoint, however not grounded in an understanding about how inner “contracts” work. By that I mean, let’s say he made a contract internally to never let another woman fool him again or hurt him again, talking about how you are different, that you love him, that he is valuable to you etc. does NOT change that inner contract he has made. Fear of being hurt will ALWAYS win out because that fear lives in every cell of his being. Love will activate the fear. The more he tries to love and open up, the more the fear will increase. It’s there to “protect” him from ever being hurt like that again. With more surface problems, yes, talking about things can help shift what is happening, with when dealing with a person’s coping mechanism, it just doesn’t work unless they are willing to do some deep diving into what they are holding onto. That is the ONLY way to get past those walls. How someone goes about that will vary and is a very creative process, but the person has to be willing – and that is something he is not willing to do. You are trying to reason with him. You are trying to get into his HEAD and show him that you are different and connect him to a different reality. That’s a very scientific approach, but the problem is, his fear and his walls come from his heart, not his head.
Couples counseling would be helpful if he agreed. But I didn’t have a chance to ask. After all, we were very happy together for a long time! But because I sabotaged my happiness with him, I probably made him feel like he wasn’t good enough for me, that I put my own path and goals above our relationship, and he was probably afraid that I might leave him for a more successful or wealthy man when I got bored with him. This is silly to think so but he probably did! Whatever his fears are specifically, the problem here is NOT that you activated them, it’s that he is not facing them. There is not a relationship alive where fear and pain and hurt isn’t activated by our mistakes, our humanness, our ignorance etc. It’s just how it is. What makes a relationship successful is having BOTH people willing to work through those moments both on their own and then together. If one person is not willing to take that journey, the relationship will not stay healthy and growing.
You know, people often portray someone they hurt in a bad light to feel better. She is a very mentally immature person and very defensive, she has a hard time forgiving and being grateful to anyone. All this breaks my heart… But I understand that someone in the relationship has to be wise and mature, and that person has to be me. I’m so sorry about your sister. That is incredibly tough and challenging. She is so wrapped up in her own pain and story that she is not able to see the beautiful gift of who you truly are. She is not able to celebrate your success and your gifts and the love you have to offer. That makes me very sad for her. Both my brothers were the same way towards me as well. They both had stories about me that prevented us from being able to be in a relationship and eventually I came to terms with it, accepted it, forgave them both on the deepest levels possible and said goodbye to being in relationship with either of them ever again. It’s been 20 years now and I still send them a lot of good vibes and I am still very much at peace about my choice. I’m not saying that is what you should do, I’m just saying that I understand how yucky it feels to have family in your life that doesn’t value, support, or love who you are. My heart goes out to you.
No one is a complete angel or devil, people are always a mixture. Everyone has their own truth, and you should always listen to both sides if you want to get a clear picture. And as they say, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Since he can’t speak for himself, I was trying to advocate for him. It may sound silly and sometimes counterintuitive, but I feel like I need to get all my points out there to free up the thoughts that have been running through my head all day. You are 100% correct. What I want to bring to your attention is that while everyone has different truths about whatever is happening, there are still fundamental truths that never change, regardless of the person. It’s those fundamental truths that I try to operate from and let guide my life. For example, it’s a fundamental truth that if someone is NOT willing to forgive the pain of their past, they will ALWAYS be limited in their ability to be happy and to love deeply. There is no way around that. Another fundamental truth about relationships is that it actually doesn’t matter how great things are, if in the worst moment trust and safety are broken because of how the 2 people treat each other, the relationship will never be healthy until that trust and safety are repaired…IF it’s even repairable. So when coaching people about falling in love, I have them 100% focus on one specific thing when they are dating….how does that person treat you, treat themselves, treat others when they are under stress? THIS is the defining factor as to whether a relationship has the potential to be successful or not. And of course, I also work with them on how they treat themselves and others when they are under stress. I have a standard…I will NEVER be in relationship with someone (friend or lover) who runs from their problems, who criticizes, who ghosts, or who is disrespectful. I REQUIRE that when stress shows up, they are respectful. They communicate, they work on their own triggers and have accountability, they ask for help – they do whatever it takes to find forgiveness and work with the stress in a high functioning way. BUT….that is how I handle myself as well and can offer that in all my relationships – and this is a skill, not something that just happens. I will NEVER last in a relationship that does not offer that to me. I don’t care how amazing the person is, they will never get to the deep, most inner circle of my heart without that skillset. They might live on the outer circle though and that’s okay for me.
So if you want HIM to be open to working on his limitations, his fears, his inability to forgive, is that something you are doing for yourself as well? I think you are doing an incredible job with learning more about yourself and trying to understand all the different layers of what is happening. Well done! AND…there are deeper layers to access where the FEELINGS and STORIES and the hurt lives. As a scientist, living in the head is a full time job and it’s definitely a necessary part of the journey, however it’s just the first step and actually does NOT create sustained changes, because it’s not far enough on the path.
With all of that being said, how are you doing today? I know it’s been a few days since you posted. Any updates? What feelings are coming up for you?
And like always, if there is anything I have said that you disagree with or want more clarification, please share!!!
Heidi
Hi Nikole! Welcome! Thank you for sharing your story.
I’m a little confused, so I need more clarification. Are you wanting advice to change his mind? Are you wanting to step into a deeper connection with him, even though he is not available for that?
How long were you married? I’m assuming you both have set up for a divorce, yes? That’s so tough. I’m sorry you are having to go through this loss.
I do want to talk about rebound relationships. How do you feel this new guy is fitting into that rebound idea? I’m wondering if he is putting up a boundary because he knows he would be a rebound and doesn’t want to go through that. Only he knows of course, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt that way.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Darya! Thank you for sharing everything you did. We are having a wonderful conversation. I love your curiosity, I love your thoughts, I love your honesty – you are incredibly strong and I respect that about you. So many people are not able to embrace the facts of their situation – the truth – because it’s too painful. I see you wrestling with it, which is a very normal thing to do – but you are at least willing to step into the ring with it and have a conversation about it. You are asking questions, you are wanting deeper understanding, and you are wanting to learn. This approach will ALWAYS lead to your growth, understanding, and eventual peace and acceptance with whatever direction you decide to choose to go. Well done!
First of all, I really, truly appreciate our conversations, your openness, your insights, and the fact that you share your thoughts and experiences with me! This is the first time in my life that a conversation with a therapist sounds not like a monologue from me, but like a dialogue, like communication with a wise, compassionate friend! I am very grateful to you for this! Wow! You put a HUGE smile on my face. Thank you for saying all of this. You seriously made my day!
I’m just wondering how James would answer my questions. I think his words would have been different. Yes, he probably would have answered differently and it also would have been a valuable answer. I know what it is that I know because I researched MANY approaches, I asked for guidance from several different people, I sought help from many different experts. So my approach is a fusion of a million different approaches, ideas, theories etc. and I made it all my own. I went out and LIVED the advice and guidance. I found out what worked, what didn’t work, what the CORE truths were vs. situational truths. I always tell people never to just believe what I say or what anyone else says. Take what we say and go try it on – go make it your own as that is the only way to truly know or believe what works and doesn’t work for you.
I like his theory too, although sometimes it puts all the responsibility for the relationship on the woman. It’s like the eternal dream of a man that a woman should be like a fairy, solving all the problems of a relationship with one wave of a magic wand. We should be smarter, wiser, easy to communicate with and always be very optimistic, creative and positive. This is not what James means to portray, however I can see why it comes across that way. What I do want to say is that women are much more dynamic, multilayered, expansive than men in general. It’s not a good or bad thing…it’s just an “ism.” We have a role to play being feminine and so do the men and when we are in our highest forms, we are a perfect match…we balance each other, we support each other, we are an incredible team. One of the core, innate roles we each play is VERY different. I’m saying this as a general concept to work with – NOT as a concept that applies to every single person, so keep this in mind. Men, in general, are defined by their ability to produce something. If you take away a man’s job, or his ability to make or produce something in this world, he will FALL APART. He won’t know who he is, he becomes HORRIBLE at relationship, he will commit suicide, he will fall into addictions etc. It’s a spiral downward when he loses his ability to produce. Even if he were a stay at home dad, their instincts lead them into finding “projects” at home to do – things to fix, things to create, things to accomplish. I have seen this over and over and over. I saw it when I dated guys that weren’t solid in their jobs or between jobs or not sure what they wanted to be…they were HORRIBLE at being consistently connective, communicating well, or even focusing on the present moment when we were together. For women, we are defined by relationships – connection. We can lose our jobs and be okay, but take away our relationships and we fall apart. Stay at home moms don’t look to fix things or create things, they are nurturing relationships with their children and with other moms and teachers and anyone else involved in their kid’s life. So….WE are the relationship caretakers. I have VERY RARELY come across a man who is seeking a way to improve his relationship. It’s typically the woman reading the books, looking for a therapist, listening to podcasts, because relationship and connection are the center of her well being. So…while what you described here is a bit antiquated, there is some truth in it. I want to invite you into looking at it from a higher perspective and the gift we have as women to be the caretakers of relationships – the most complicated and challenging entity on this planet. Does that mean that we do EVERYTHING while the man sits around? Of course not. We lead, but the man must also have a desire to follow and also take his own initiative. If that is missing, then the relationship will always be limited and that is something that a woman cannot be held accountable for.
Then why should we be iron ladies, sexy chicks and patient mentors at the same time, all in one? To be like a mother and a passionate lover for him at the same time? It seems that we should never relax, always control what and how to say, what and how to do or not to do. Put a man in the center of the Universe and revolve our whole life around him! This is definitely NOT what a woman needs to be, but your father also grew up in a different generation, so take that into account. His view WAS accurate not that long ago. Women stayed home and took care of the “provider” and everything he needed. And that’s okay! As a collective, we have to try on all sorts of things before finding that balance. We have been shifting out of that mindset for a while now, but it takes time to find the new way of relating where BOTH people in the relationship feel valued, cared about, and respected.
But when I heard him saying that a woman must have innate cunning, coquetry, charm, to smooth things over, to achieve her goals softly and easily, I froze in fear. I asked myself if I had these innate qualities, if I would become such a woman when I grew up? And I knew the answer was NO, because all the books I read taught me to be open, straightforward and honest. And I had no idea how this could be compatible with my father’s expectations of a good woman.
And then he didn’t want to see the difference in the situation, he had already identified everything as a familiar situation and acted according to the pattern. Again, there is a thread of truth in this. It’s not different than what marketing people do…they understand how to say something to INSPIRE a specific action from their audience. So…wouldn’t you say that if you want something from a man, figuring out how to INSPIRE it from him is a powerful skill. Not necessarily in a manipulative way, but in a way that helps the man to feel empowered. Similar to the hero instinct. It’s a skill that absolutely can be used to manipulate OR it’s a skill that can absolutely bring him closer because he is feeling empowered with his woman – and this is a good thing. No different than money, it’s all about the user’s intention and how and why they are implementing what they know.I was even jealous! Why am I never ready for something like this! Why don’t I have a pattern! I guess I’m so naive because I think everyone is unique, I always give a person a second and third chance. I can’t accept that someone can’t change, I think I just haven’t found the right approach to him. You have your own patterns! LOL. I can tell that 1 pattern you have is that you don’t give up. Our greatest strengths are ALWAYS our greatest weaknesses as well. You are like a dog with a bone. You have a hard time quitting, right? I actually used to be like that until I learned more. I learned every single approach possible to figure out how to get what I needed from whomever was my boyfriend at the time. I never gave up until I was in enough scarcity or pain that I couldn’t take it anymore…and unfortunately I had a SUPER HIGH pain tolerance. I actually learned that healthy people have a LOW pain tolerance. A healthy person chooses NOT to engage in a toxic connection. Now, I have such a low pain tolerance, BUT the people that are in my inner circle are INCREDIBLE!!! Sure we have arguments and rough patches, but the relationship is healthy. We communicate, we own our mistakes and patterns, we are honest with each other…I feel 100% safe with ALL my close relationships because now…I only let higher functioning people into my inner circle. Does this make sense?
I agree with James on this: my man no longer feels like my HERO! He told me that he thought I was smarter than him. But I wouldn’t say that. He may not feel like that, but that is NOT your fault. Here is the thing…bottom line is, you cannot make someone feel something that doesn’t live within in. If he doesn’t feel like a hero in your life, then he had 2 choices. a healthy version of him would communicate that to you and ask for change – and if it didn’t happen, he would recognize this was not a relationship that worked for him and he would leave (low pain tolerance). His other choice was to do what he did…blame you for how HE feels, but the truth is, he felt like that loooong before you ever came along. So in the end, him not feeling like your hero is NOT your responsibility. Whatever any of us feel, is always 100% our responsibility – end of story. If someone is triggering us, it’s OUR job to say something, understand it, work with it…..or leave. For me, I view every trigger, every bad feeling I have, every pattern I have – as my teacher. So when someone triggers me, it’s an opportunity for me to learn what has not been resolved within me and it’s an opportunity for healing. So…when I hurt someone else or when I am not what they are wanting, I also view their pain as their teacher as well and while I may take responsibility for what I did, I do not blame myself for their pain or their lack of needs being met. It’s not my job to take care of them.
I believe that love is a blessing, and if we have received this gift from God, we cannot ignore it or neglect it or refuse it, it is a sin and a big mistake. Love is absolutely one of the most beautiful and powerful divine gifts for sure! I want to invite you to expand your perspective though. How about instead of calling it a sin or a mistake NOT to engage with it, you view someone who is in fear of it and running from it, ALSO as a path for learning and growing. If you understand that pain is the GREATEST motivator for change, then watching someone isolate or run from love brings them into pain…which hopefully one day becomes sooooo great that they make a different choice. And even if they die never having faced their fear, they STILL learned things along the way that you were never witness to. Love is incredibly powerful and terrifying for most people all at the same time. If fear is NOT activated by love, you are not truly loving. I understand why people run from it, why they try and control it, why their worst gets activated by it. That’s why I’ve studied it for over 3 decades. It’s fascinated me ever since I can remember. I’ve come to understand and accept that every single person has a very unique journey with love – some expand and some contract – either way…it’s their choice and THEIR journey and that’s between them and the divine and not for me to say it should be different. There are things happening far beyond what I can see with my limited, grain of sand understanding about their path.
Now I feel almost guilt free, and I could be a much better partner for my man, I would show him my love and devotion, proving that he is my one and only. I have no doubt you could be a much better partner for your man. You have grown, you have learned, you have become more open….AND….it still does not change who HE is. He is who he is because of his past and his avoidance of his baggage. You changing, does not change him. You will still be facing the same exact patterns from him because he hasn’t changed.
I think I understand what you mean by saying that “the fear, the pain, the heartbreak they are holding onto – is stronger than their desire to be happy and get what they want.” It is driven by the desire of remaining within a comfort zone. I also think it has to do with imprinting earlier life experiences. EXACTLY!!!! This is a very layered concept that normally teach in a class, but basically, it’s called the “upper limit.” We ALL have a limit as to how happy we will allow ourselves to be. This limit is determined by how much baggage we are carrying around. The more the baggage, the lower the limit – the less happy we will allow ourselves to be…AND…it’s not even a conscious choice. I’m aware of it because I’ve studied it, but most are not. For example, when I was in my early 20s, I was all about the bad boy type of guy. The nice guys who treated me like gold, I would last 2 weeks (literally) before I felt bored, found something wrong with them, or just couldn’t take the niceties anymore. I was highly aware of my dating pattern, but it wasn’t until my late 20s that I was able to shift it. It took a lot of work of clearing out my baggage to shift that pattern – which allowed my upper limit to expand. The thing is, in order to raise your happiness level, you have to open up your baggage and clear out what you are holding onto. Otherwise, that baggage just acts as an anchor. You can see someone’s upper limit by watching WHEN they sabotage. You see it everywhere…people who want to lose weight and last about 3 months before they sabotage their success….or people who want more money and stick to their budget for 6 months before falling back into old patterns…or people who get exactly what they want in a relationship, yet after 6 weeks, 6 months, a year….they sabotage it. And again, what is IMPORTANT to understand, is they have no idea they are sabotaging because the reasons in their mind make sense or the feelings they have are so strong, it just makes sense to them. I can’t tell you how many times a happy couple breaks up because all of a sudden, one person “falls out of love.” This is so hard for people to understand, but I get it because I’m the type to open up my baggage and be in relationship with all the crap I held onto. SOOOOOOO many times I have cleared something out and it instantly changed how I was feeling or what I wanted. It’s truly fascinating. That is why FEELINGS ARE NOT FACTS. People tend to make decisions according to how they feel without ever exploring WHERE those feelings come from. It’s a rare person who does that, because it’s incredibly uncomfortable and very hard to do….but well worth it in my opinion. My feelings DO NOT guide me. They are simply something to explore further.
I feel like I’m on a roller coaster right now: some days I feel like I’m ready to close this chapter of my life and believe that I’ll meet someone who’s just for me instead of trying to change someone who doesn’t want to change. Other days I miss my ex and think that we both needed this lesson (each of us differently) to be better partners for each other. I’m tired, it’s really energy draining. More and more often I think that I should redirect all the energy I spend trying to fix this relationship to my career, life goals and family. This relationship was toxic, and I have to admit that it failed. However, I am grateful to my ex-partner for this lesson, for his support during a very difficult time for me and for all the good things he did for me. It’s VERY normal to be on that roller coaster ride when saying goodbye to love. Over time, you will stabilize. You are supposed to feel tire and drained. AND…it’s going to be much more tough on you, because failure, for you, is super tough because of whatever story you have about what it means about you to fail. Something to explore if you are willing.
What do you think of Colin Tipping’s radical forgiveness? I love the concept, and I really think my boyfriend played a part in the lessons I had to learn, and I did mine for him. We performed this dance together and we should be grateful to each other for it. I have no idea who this guy is, but I will definitely look him up! I am absolutely 100% in alignment with forgiving everything and anything. I had an INCREDIBLY challenging life growing up. The gift….I learned that it’s possible to forgive anything. I will ALWAYS choose to forgive – even the darkest, most horrific acts. I forgive because it’s the kind of person I want to be. I forgive because if I don’t, I am the only who pays the prices by holding onto the anger, the hurt, the pain. Joy and love and laughter and happiness become less accessible the more pain is held onto….as you are currently experiencing. That’s not what I want. I want freedom. I want to stay empowered. I want emotional soveriegnty….so I forgive 🙂
I’m loving talking with you!!!
Heidi
Hi Darya! Thank you for sharing your feelings and thoughts! They are all great points and questions. I can see how you came to some conclusions, so let me clarify some things. This platform of typing VERY complicated concepts can be tough sometimes because a lot is missed, so stick with me here and make sure to keep sharing your perspectives and questions, so you can best guide me where I may be going amiss.
However, it seems you are not a big fan of James’ theory. Your main message is to move on and not waste my time on this man and this relationship. Is this correct? I LOVE his theory. It’s spot on, however it’s not the whole picture. Nothing is really. We, as people, are soooooo incredibly dynamic and multilayered and infinite. So what James talks about is spot on about a lot of things, but his concepts don’t apply to every single situation.
Also, I NEVER feel that anything is ever a waste of time. Whether you choose to continue pursuing this relationship or decide to let it go, BOTH paths have lessons and gifts for you. There is ALWAYS something to learn about yourself and something you can heal in either direction. I’m assuming you want a deep, connective, authentic, open type of love and connection. That is pretty impossible with someone who does not forgive. Yes, there can be love and connection to a certain point, but it will ALWAYS be limited. You will ALWAYS bump into an immovable wall that he has up (not that he is even aware of it). The anger and fear that fills that wall will ALWAYS be stronger and more powerful than love. Can that be shifted and changed? Absolutely. Anyone can change, but it has to be THEIR choice and he has to be willing to forgiven and let go of the past. And….if he isn’t able to forgive his sister and his ex and anyone else who is thrown in that mix, he also will not be able to forgive you and your humanness. His anger is strong enough that it will only take a small transgression for him to put you in the mix of another woman he cannot trust. This kind of stuff never goes away. All he is doing is burying it and while it’s buried, it continues to grow stronger and grow over time. That’s just how it works for anyone. That’s why we ALL have “baggage” that we bring into relationships that sabotage connection in some form or fashion. Whatever we haven’t resolved in our past, gets triggered by relationships in the present. If someone only knows how to bury things, then whatever happens in the present just adds to the baggage. Or…if someone gets triggered, they could use it as an opportunity for healing and release more of their baggage. From what you are telling me, your guy has no clue how to do that and he doesn’t sound like he is interested in learning how. And this is something you cannot do for him. He has to make that choice all on his own, because it is a VERY personal and challenging journey for someone to face their baggage and it’s definitely not something you do on your own. He will need an expert to help him through it. A coach, a therapist, a group, a program he signs up for. What lives in our baggage is a foreign language for someone who hasn’t studied it, so it’s crucial to have a guide to help interpret what is actually happening and how to navigate the level of fear that comes with it. Does this make sense? I’m giving a very general overview and there are MANY more things to say about this, but I don’t want to overwhelm or go too far, so let me know your thoughts on this.
But shouldn’t I give him a chance to grow up and mature? Is he really that hopeless? Grow and mature? He has had MANY years to do that already. He sounds very young emotionally and I would hate to see you step into a “mother” type of role with him where you are spending your time and energy trying to nurture him into a space that he needs to go to on his own. He doesn’t need a parent in you. He needs an equal and that means you accepting him for exactly who he is and how he wants to live his life. And if that means he doesn’t want to talk about things with you, he gets to do that. Do you really want to be that person trying to CONVINCE him he needs to share his authentic feelings, whatever they may be, with you? Here’s the thing Darya….we ALL have coping mechanisms in how we handle stress. They NEVER go away and it’s our coping mechanisms that sabotages connection. Someone who is more connected to their baggage and has a skillset to handle it, they handle their coping mechanisms with skill. So for example, my coping mechanism is to run away and become unavailable. That instinct has never left me, but what I am able to do, is handle myself in an adult way when that part of me gets activated. I consciously CHOOSE to stay present, connected, and work through my fears with someone if I need to. I hold myself accountable and set myself up for success when I am triggered. I know myself soooooo deeply that when I get triggered, I know exactly what it’s about, I know how to handle it, I know how to forgive, I know how to heal and I always end with feeling gratitude for the experience of being triggered because it brought up some old wounds that needed to be resolved. I can do this because I have studied myself for decades, I have had expert help for decades, and I am constantly learning and growing. Someone who does not do this, means their coping mechanism, whatever that may be, will run the show whenever they are triggered. Their saboteur is more in control of their life and will constantly ruin their success in any area where fear and anger and hurt are living. So that’s why I’m saying that your guy is who he is and most likely will not change. He has been holding onto some pretty intense anger since he was a child and he is not willing to let it go, even though his sister is gone. That kind of anger and fear is VERY strong and will always overpower love until he faces it. So I’m not saying for you to give up on him, I’m saying give up the idea that he is going to operate any differently. Accept who he is and how he wants to live his life. He WANTS to keep his anger. He WANTS to hold onto the past and he deserves a partner who can accept this about him, instead of needing him to change.
No one is hopeless. However, I have found that if someone has not had enough drive or curiosity about themselves by the time they reach your age, the odds of them becoming that are pretty low, unless something major happens to them…like a near death experience, or losing something they deeply love….some kind of wake up call that inspires them to get help in some way.
And it was partly my fault, because I felt too vulnerable to hear him say unflattering things about his feelings for me, and I didn’t insist him to go all the way and clear things up. Yes, I’m sure you contributed to this, but it doesn’t change HIS choice. You did not make him stay silent. He is a grown, independent man and has the freedom to make his own choices just as you do. If he is not strong enough to be honest and open with you, REGARDLESS of your reaction, then that’s on HIM…not you. If he doesn’t feel safe to do that with you, then he needs to re-evaluate why he is with a partner that he doesn’t feel safe with to be honest. It is not YOUR responsibility to open HIM up. Your responsibility ONLY is for you to show up as the best person possible and that’s it. It’s not only YOUR job to insist on going further to clear things up. Why can’t HE be the person to do that as well? It’s a partnership here. You both help each other go to places that are scary, right? The truth is, he didn’t want to go there either and that is not your fault. It’s how he lives and approaches his life.
For me, the irony is that redirecting my emotions to the pain of breaking up with my boyfriend almost healed my grief from losing my husband. Although I still miss him, of course, it doesn’t block my ability to love someone else. I think I’ve finally forgiven myself and am ready to allow myself to find happiness again. I’m not saying the loss of your husband blocked your ability to love. I was more saying that it blocked your ability to love DEEPLY and FREELY. Love is infinite and limitless and how deep we are willing to go with love, is reflected by how deeply we are in relationship with ourselves and our shadow side…that side of us that holds all the fear, the anger, the resentment, the shame etc. It’s actually THAT side of us, that determines how deeply we love. And I”m glad to hear that you feel you have forgiven yourself and feel more healed. This is so great!
And secondly, why do I still miss him, love him, and can’t get over him if he was just like crutches for me? Like I said above, I wasn’t implying that your current guy was a crutch completely. I was implying that in SOME WAYS he may have been a crutch for you. It doesn’t mean you can’t still love someone, even though you may be using them in some ways to avoid pain. It’s not a bad thing…it’s a VERY NORMAL human thing we ALL do. We all are using each other to feel things, to avoid things, to learn things on sooooo many levels. Most do not have the conscious awareness of it though. That’s why I started out saying that relationships are VERY VERY dynamic and multilayered. Science has shown us that over 80% of our thoughts and feelings are sourced by the subconscious – the place that we are not connected to. So most people are walking around doing and feeling things they have no understanding about and take it at face value. For example, I would watch myself be attracted to the “bad boy” type ALL THE TIME. The feelings were strong and the chemistry off the charts. Were those feelings real? Nope. I grew up with a narcissist father, so I was tuned to the emotionally unavailable type of guy. It was what I knew. I was constantly trying to FINALLY earn the love I craved my whole life. So it was my WOUNDED self that caused me to be attracted to these men who were unavailable and would never treat me the way I wanted. You actually this everywhere….people wanting to lose weight, yet sneaking desserts, people wanting more money but won’t stick to a budget, people wanting healthier more connective relationships, yet they choose someone who is emotionally unavailable. People are constantly sabotaging exactly what they want because the baggage from their past – the fear, the pain, the heartbreak they are holding onto – is stronger than their desire to be happy and get what they want. Again, this is a VERY complicated concept that I teach in person, so trying to explain it here is quite limiting, but I’m hoping it’s coming across the way I intend. Let me know how this lands on you.
I have no idea how this would work! Maybe this is just a natural phase of the healing process, and I need more time to reach the next level of openness to a new relationship? What do you think? I think that it’s okay to have no idea how it would work and to not try to know. I think that if you just allow yourself to be in the present moment and let the rest of it fall away, you will be living your life more fully. Anytime we are trying to figure out something that hasn’t even happened yet, it’s the part of ourselves that is reaching for control. I want to invite you into just trusting that when and if someone shows up that inspires you to open your heart and your world, you will figure it out at that time. Until then, just enjoy what you have right now and keep growing with what shows up in front of you each day.
Thanks for sticking with me Darya! Keep asking questions!!
Heidi
Thank you for sharing more details. It’s great that you moved to different place so you both don’t run into each other. It sounds like there has been a light, easy, and simple kind of connection since you moved, but nothing much beyond that. I’m assuming you haven’t seen him in person in quite a while, yes?
I want to be honest here. From what you have shared about your interactions, it doesn’t appear that this guy views you as someone other than a casual friend. Being that YOU initiate everything and nothing really goes beyond simple, surface conversations, I’m not sure there is much to work with here. I can offer suggestions, but when it’s the girl chasing the guy – even at the surface level that exists right now…it typically signifies a guy not interested in anything more. When a person WANTS something, they go after it. Yes, he is responsive to you, but he is not showing any signs that would indicate he might be interested in you.
It sounds like you need to find out for sure though. So first, I want to ask…are you willing to lose the connection you have right now? Because as soon as you turn it up a notch and try to take this connection to another level, you are saying goodbye to how things are right now and you can’t go back. It will never feel the same. So are you willing to do that?
If yes, I would suggest finding ways to start to meet in person – in group activities. The moment you change the pattern and start to ask him to do activities solo, he will instantly know you are wanting something more with him. If you find activities to invite him to in a group setting, you both will feel much more relaxed and will have an easier time getting to know each other without it feeling like a date. Since you know his interests, are those things you are also interested in? If you like golf, is there a charity event you both can go to? Or are there any activities for the holidays that you can invite him and his friends to join along?
Heidi
Hi Darya! Great to hear from you. Sharing everything you did was extremely helpful!
I’m sure you figured this out already, but make sure you always reply on this platform and NOT through your gmail, because I won’t see it that way.
Okay….so let’s dive in.
I first want to commend you for your self-awareness. It sounds like you have a pretty clear understanding about yourself and how you have been ineffective in the relationship. I LOVE that because it means that you are willing and able to look at YOUR limitations and own them….which is the first step to becoming a better partner.
I am soooooo so sorry for the loss of your husband. He died in your arms and I imagine that is the best gift you could have ever given him. It’s heartbreaking and incredibly beautiful and sacred the way you were there for him.
I’m going to just be very direct here and go straight to the core of why you both are no longer together. It has nothing to do with the hero instinct…or lack thereof. It has to do with HIS lack of trust when it comes to women and love and it has to do with YOUR not feeling completely safe to open your heart to him…you still have some strings tied to your husband and the loss of him that are preventing you from truly being available for a new experience. So in essence, you BOTH have parts of you that are not available to each other – and it leaks out in different ways.
If we were to focus on him, there is one MAJOR red flag here that instantly tells you he will NEVER be a good partner for anyone. He isn’t willing to forgive. If he is still holding onto the past about his sister and his anger that comes with that, then he will NEVER trust a woman, he will never feel internally safe with a woman, and he will always sabotage happiness and connection. The anger he is holding onto is what will prevent him from ever loving deeply – and then of course you add on top of that his ex cheating on him and that just fuels the fire. So this relationship with him was doomed from the beginning. He DOES NOT have what it takes to have a deep, intimate, connective, nourishing love to offer and nor does he have the ability to receive it. It doesn’t matter how much you make him feel like a hero, his anger and his lack of trust of women will ALWAYS block intimacy and connection and it will ALWAYS stop him from growing deeper with a woman. And instead of recognizing this within himself, he points the finger at you – another BIG RED FLAG. He blames you and says “YOU didn’t want to go public” instead of owning how he feels and talking to you about it. He is so angry and so hurt (from his past) that the way he wants to live his life is hole up in a home and make his life very small. The pain he is carrying is causing him to want to shrink his life, instead of facing it so he can grow from it. He wants to blame YOU for all the things that didn’t go right, because he is way too fragile to own up to how he has contributed. So it’s important for you to truly see who he is, how he wants to live his life, and that he will never be able to offer you what you want. You need to accept this, and then from that acceptance, decide if this is the kind of relationship you want. Is he a person you want holding the most sacred part of you….your heart? Do you feel SAFE to completely open up and give him your heart because you trust that he knows how to respect it, care for it, and take care of it? If not, then it’s time to consider letting him go and allow yourself to heal.
As far as what YOU have to offer, it sounds like the loss of your husband was very impactful and that there are still some things that you need to heal from. It’s normal to feel guilt about moving on and it’s normal to want the same kind of love and experience. Maybe it’s time to work through some of that stuff and free yourself from your past as well. I’m guessing that your current guy was a stand in on some level to help you not feel so alone when your husband passed…and that you wanted to turn your connection with the current guy into something similar that you had with your husband instead of letting it just be it’s own entity. Maybe it’s time for you to be completely alone, so you can discover more of your fears, more of what you are carrying around in your emotional baggage, and where you have your own blocks to love.
Looking forward to your thoughts!
Heidi
Hi Darya!
Welcome and thank you for sharing your story! It sounds like you really are in a space of wanting to learn more about your situation. I understand your desire to learn about specific concepts and how they apply to your situation.
I can give you the answers to your questions, but knowing why you two broke up, is really important. Many times, people are looking for solutions and they think it’s one thing, but it actually is another. So it’s helpful for us to have as many details as possible, so we can look at the whole picture to know how to best guide you towards what you want. So if you are up for it, sharing the details of your situation is encouraged.
Should I play dummy? Should I call him for help to open a can? Should I be more demanding? Think more about the concept instead of taking it literally. It’s less about having them DO things for you and more about setting up ways for them to feel appreciated and needed by you. So no…DO NOT play dummy. I ask for help ALL THE TIME for things I can do on my own. I ask for help because it makes my life easier AND I get to appreciate the help after. Activating the hero is just about making him feel like he is valued in your life. For example, even if you don’t ask for his help, if he ever offers, say yes and then appreciate him after. Make sure you give compliments and share why you love him just out of the blue. Would you say that he felt valued by you?
How can I compete with so many other people who call him for help? First, I’d love to invite you into a different mindset. How about instead of “competing” with others for his time and attention, think instead “what can I do to INSPIRE him to want to spend more time with me.” When you feel like you are competing, that instantly will make you think that he is making them more important than you and that’s a dangerous mindset. It’s obvious from what you are saying about it, helping people is REALLY important for him, so I’m guessing in HIS mind, it’s not about THEM being more important than you….it’s more about him fulfilling his identity and role as being a helper. Every one of our strengths and gifts ALSO are our weaknesses and cause harm. So his amazing ability and generous heart is such a gift to many AND it also sounds like he doesn’t know how to say no and set boundaries and it caused harm to your relationship. Would you say this resonates for you? And as his partner, this is something that will ALWAYS be part of him. He may or may not ever work on this part of himself – who knows. What YOU can do is try to understand if his choice to leave you and go help someone else is just a function of who he is, or were there struggles you 2 were having that would cause him to feel okay to leave during his time with you. He truly may not have had any idea of what he was doing and how it made you feel. Did you ever discuss this with him? If yes, what was his response? Also, is there another way around this for YOU so you get your needs met? Meaning, if he never changed, is there another way you can still get your needs met with him without needing him to be different? Maybe reserving Sundays for date day and he can agree to not answer any handyman requests on that day? I’m guessing, your core need here is that you were wanting to feel more connected with him, yes? no?
How can I ask for this when he is trying to avoid taking any responsibility for me? I’m a little confused about this one. Do you WANT him to be a provider for you? It sounds like you are able to take care of yourself, so why are you wanting this from him? Help me understand. This also has a similar flavor to the above question…like somehow you are wanting to mean something more to him and you are looking for ways to matter. Is this correct? Again, this is why having the full story is helpful…if this is what you are wanting from him, I would not advise approaching your situation with the concepts you are asking about.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Belle,
I am soooo so sorry for what you are going through. I know how confusing it can be to feel like things are going in one direction and then all of a sudden, the rug is ripped out from under you and takes you completely by surprise. It is such a powerless feeling and honestly, I think that is one of the most difficult feelings to deal with.
First, I want to say that it’s not about YOU having done something wrong. There are ALWAYS 2 sides that contribute to a breakup and while he might have a story about everything you did “wrong,” it doesn’t mean that it’s true. If you take a step back and look at the situation from a larger view, the biggest problem here is that he was not openly communicating to you. Something in him decided to keep his feelings, whatever they were, to himself and not share them with you until one day he just exploded and all of a sudden you are broken up and he is claiming he doesn’t love you anymore. There is not much you can do to improve your relationship if your partner won’t tell you what is happening for them. We ALL are human and have struggles, habits, challenging behaviors and we are ALL limited – and whether we like it or not, it affects our partner…be we need our partner to communicate with us to help guide us in being a better partner in the areas we have blind spots. Since he was not willing to talk to you about anything, how are you able to become better and more aware?
So now you are just left with a big guessing game as to what went wrong that caused him to make this kind of decision after 7 years.
What I do know about the psyche, is that making a quick, surprising decision like that typically means something has happened that he is not telling you about. Something within him happened. Maybe he did have an affair while he was gone and the guilt is chewing him up inside – and THAT absolutely will cause him to feel like he was falling out of love and wanting to break up. I’m guessing SOMETHING happened on his trip – maybe not an affair but possibly some life altering experiences / conversations etc. You said he seemed different since he got back. Considering how long he was gone, it’s possible he just changed through his experiences there and trying to re-enter in his life was difficult because he felt like a different person. Maybe as he tried to be back in his life again, it just didn’t fit anymore and he doesn’t quite know how to express that or deal with that in a healthy, authentic way.
The tough part is Belle, you cannot make him talk – so you left just “guessing” as to what went down, and that is a fruitless waste of energy. I know you want to understand what happened, but that is something that you just won’t get to have, unless he decides to be honest with you. And even at that, HE may not even understand what he is doing or how he is feeling fully and completely – so any real conversation with him may just put you in more confusion.
What you DO know is that he is running from something – whether he understands it or not. That’s the hard part. His decision to run is NOT about you…it’s about how he is CHOOSING to cope with whatever stress he is living with right now. Unfortunately, that choice sabotages connection and breaks trust and it’s so so sad and heartbreaking. My guess is, eventually he will end up feeling the full force of his choice. Maybe at that point, he will be willing to talk with you. The state he is in right now will not last.
I know you want to try and fix this, but honestly, this is something HE needs to fix, not you. Why? Because whatever is happening is within HIM, not you. You are clear. You KNOW what you want. He does not. So it’s important to give him space to figure that out all on his own. Giving him space means that he will feel the FULL consequences of his choice. Who knows how long that will take, but giving him that time is important. However, that may be something you are not able to do, and I understand that. If you do want to reach out, what I suggest is to come at him with gentle and curious energy…open and listening. So you could approach him by saying something like “Listen. It breaks my heart that you felt so unhappy with me. I completely understand that you got tired of fighting. It was a really big wake up call for me to look at how much my moods and how I expressed them was weighing on you. I am so sorry. Would you be willing to meet up and talk? I’m not going to try and get back together. I just want to understand more. I need to work on myself and losing you has been the catalyst for that. Can we just have an open and honest conversation? I want to be better. And I promise I will respect your decision and not try and change your mind….” I’m not sure he will respond to something like this, but it’s your best bet. And if he DOES respond, you need to make sure you show up with an open mind, commit to not getting defensive and fighting. He might say some things that are hard for you to hear, but you have to be willing to stay grounded, open and listening to HIS side of things and stay in a mindset of wanting to understand and NOT starting a fight.
Those are 2 ways to approach this and what you decide is more about what you are willing to do and your personality.
In the meantime, I do suggest working on yourself. From what he shared, it sounds like the relationship was a lot of work for him, so how did you contribute to that and how can you improve?
Heidi
Can you clarify who is the co-dependent? You BOTH exhibit these tendencies. He does it with the romantic partners he chooses and so do you. But in your relationship together, you are being co-dependent and he is not.
He has not waivered on who he thinks he is. Hasn’t he? He claims to be so authentic, he is who he is, he wants open communication, he wants loyalty….yet he has ghosted you, he chooses romantic partners that are NOT authentic and are NOT loyal, he picks the opposite of what he says he wants and while he has been an amazing friend for you, he also has not been there for you. He is not consistent. His words and his actions DO NOT align all the time, so he DOES waiver on who he thinks he is. You are thinking he has more self-esteem than he actually does because of what he SAYS about himself. True self-esteem is expressed through actions, NOT words. So I look at how someone lives their life, the people they choose to engage with, how they treat themselves and others under stress etc. He is filled with fear (he THINKS it’s his strength, constantly announcing to you that he is not going to take any sh*** – but that is 100% fear and insecurity) Someone who lives like that is incredibly fragile and has a lot of low self-esteem.
My gut said that he was most likely busy..He has told me that he has nothing to hide and he is straight forward. I let doubt creep in and what I need is to learn to keep doubt out. He really has never given me any reason to doubt him. Really? From what you have shared here, he has a pattern of ghosting you. Am I misunderstanding? Because THAT disappearing act is what breaks trust. He does it with his sister, he does it with you, and I have no doubt there are other people he does it to. It’s a pattern. You never know if he will respond. Is he there? Is he not there? Wouldn’t you say THAT, in and of itself, is a reason to doubt him?
It’s me…I don’t trust me and maybe that is what you have been getting me to figure out on my own..I need to know what’s broke and how to fix it..I am not by any means saying he doesn’t have issues he needs to deal with..I think the focus needs to be on me and how to put this insecure little girl to rest..Yes..I’m mad right now at myself. It didn’t feel right sending him that text but I did. Correct. You don’t trust yourself, therefore you don’t have the ability to trust anyone else. It starts within you. The same is true for him. He doesn’t trust anyone either, not even you. There is always going to be a BIG part of him that will be walled off from you and anyone he is in relationship with. Putting your insecure little girl to rest is quite the journey and requires the deep dive work you don’t feel ready for yet. So for now, you can work on the surface stuff, like improving your communication, but the insecure little girl will ALWAYS be influencing how you communicate. And as far as you sending that text, I LOVED IT! Well done! You spoke up! You used your voice! Who cares how it turned out. You did it for YOURSELF and that insecure little girl who is starved for connection. You took a risk and that is 100% okay! You should be celebrating yourself, not beating yourself up for it!
Fearful was the wrong term for me to use..It actually shouldn’t have even been used. We are not in a committed relationship so there isn’t an issue there. There IS an issue here. You made that statement 2x (and not by mistake) and there is energy around it. Maybe fear wasn’t the right word, but what word is?
I do think the focus has been off. I’m confused. You say you want to focus on you, but I feel like that’s all I have been doing…trying to help you understand your patterns, your choices, your way of thinking – I’m also explaining quite a bit about him too. Can you better guide me? How do you feel that I haven’t been focusing on that? I feel I have been very direct and straightforward, so help show me where you feel you aren’t getting that from me.
Heidi
I felt ashamed because I gave up a fight for my child..I knew deep down in my heart she was doing this so it would cancel out child support and she wouldn’t have to listen to her father bad mouth me. I can understand why you would feel ashamed. She obviously has the “rescuer” gene like you do! And that’s okay. She also has to deal with her choices and it sounds like she is 100% accepting of what she did. So now, all that is left is you forgiving yourself. Is that something you are willing to do?
My understanding him is for my personal benefit..If I understand why he is doing something in a certain manor, I can change my expectation with my interactions with him
When I apologized to him, that was me recognizing that I should have changed my behavior by recognizing his behavior..I hope that make sense?
I want to shed a light on these 2 statements here. I know it makes complete sense to you to think this way, as it’s how you have functioned your entire life. This type of thinking is co-dependent thinking. It’s using someone else’s behaviors to determine how you behave, so you can keep the peace and so you feel like you are likeable, amenable, and worth knowing. It’s called your “winning formula.” We ALL have a winning formula. It’s the formula we use to shine the brightest parts of ourselves so we can fit, be liked, be accepted, be fought for etc. I learned about this in my early 20s and identified what my winning formula was, and still to this very day, I fall into it. LOL. My winning formula is being the teacher. I have VERY deep knowledge and understanding about the human psyche. I know EXACTLY how to make someone feel safe, known, seen, and accepted. I know how to help people understand themselves. So that part of me tends to come up in conversations. My whole life, what I have heard the most from people was “I have never felt so understood or seen before.” And THAT is what made me feel special. THAT is what made me feel different than everyone else and what made me feel like I was valuable to them. So it’s a formula that contributes to my self-esteem. These days, I have a TON more self-esteem, so it’s not something I do often, but I will catch myself every once in a while. LOL.
Anyways, if you were FULL of self-esteem, you wouldn’t be thinking this way. Instead, you would be just be who you are, not concerning yourself about how HE is feeling. I guarantee you, he doesn’t change his behavior according to how you react. Like he has said to you a gazillion times…”I am who I am.” You are who you are by “reading the room.” You change according to what you are sensing and understanding about the situation or person. The hard part about being in a relationship with someone who has co-dependent tendencies, is you actually never know who that person truly is. You hardly know their needs and feelings and thoughts, because they are so concerned about yours. So it’s like being in relationship with an invisible person….you know they are there, but you actually know nothing about them, except that they are happiest when you are happiest.
Your expectations should be based off of what YOU require, not who he is. Your expectations are your standards as to how you want to be treated. And those standards need to be non-negotiable. Meaning, if someone does not align with your standards, they don’t get to be in your life. This is discernment. This is loving yourself by only allowing those people into your inner circle who value you, honor you, are curious about you, and who take care of your heart. And you have enough information to know what to expect from him. He will be there sometimes and sometimes he won’t. He will share certain things with you and some things he won’t. He is unpredictable, he is angry and resentful, he is very wounded, he doesn’t feel safe in his life, and he has MASSIVE walls built around his heart that are NOT going to come down for anyone. Even if he were to fall in love again, it will be limited and he absolutely will sabotage intimacy and he will pick someone who does the same thing…so any relationship he gets involved with will be challenging for him….but every single experience will be an opportunity for him to grow. Now….I pointed out all his limitations. I know he has greatness in him as well and he has given you some wonderful, healing experiences. I point out all the challenging stuff, because when having standards and when choosing who to give your heart to (friend, family, or lover) you need to decide that according to the worst of someone, not their best. It’s the worst of who we are that breaks trust, safety, and will break a relationship – IF the worst is dysfunctional and harmful. So when I let someone into my life on a deeper level, I am watching how they treat me, themselves, other people, and their thought process when they are under stress. NO ONE gets into my life that is harmful, critical, stonewalling, judgmental, victim and pointing the finger. Those types of coping mechanisms do not work on me and they are not safe people for me to hand my heart over to. Each person that is close to my heart treats me with respect, has incredible communication with me, they work on themselves, and we all approach life in similar ways…we face our fears, we own our limitations, we want the best outcome always. I have these standards and expectations because I embody those things first and foremost. I never ask for something from someone that I cannot offer myself. I also never ask for something from someone that they don’t have within them. So…here is a homework assignment for you. Write out a list of qualities that you want from a relationship – not romantic – just a friendship. And then circle the qualities that are non-negotiable for you. That means that if any of those non-negotiable qualities are missing, they don’t get to be in your inner circle. They can be on the outskirts, but they don’t get to have access to your full openness. Non-negotiables mean that you will not survive in the relationship. Without those qualities, you will never last with them. And I want you to also include in those non-nogotiables, how stress, arguments, and challenges are navigated. So for me, the moment someone calls me a name, points a finger at me and blames me, judges me, ghosts me, criticizes me – they are booted out of my inner circle. I will not be treated that way. I expect to be treated with open communication and with respect. That is non-negotiable. Does this make sense?
As far as your apology, again….it is NOT your job to recognize his behaviors to determine what he needs from you. It is HIS job to communicate his needs if he wants something different. End of story. Your job is to be yourself and let him be an adult and use his words if he wants something different from you. You trying to understand him so you can be support him better, is you trying to rescue him from his pain. How about rescuing yourself first. How about learning how to be comfortable being yourself, even if it disappoints someone or upsets someone. That’s a tough one, but it is the journey required if you are going to build your self-esteem and increase your strength in this area of your life.
My thoughts when he ghosts are that , he isn’t wanting to connect right now for what ever reason.. I think the only fearful thought I ever have and somehow need to bring it up to him so that he will actually answer me on it , is, Did he find another love interest? Why is this fearful for you? If you are okay with being friends, what does it matter if he found another love interest. I’m a little confused about this one.
I say this because he has told me that he won’t talk to or entertain the thought of another woman when he is in a relationship. I want to respect that boundary but also want the respect of being told if that should occur. It’s not up to you to respect his boundary if he hasn’t told you there is one. If and when he needs something different from you, it’s HIS job to tell you. Otherwise, you just be you. It’s not his obligation to tell you about his love life. I’m sure he knows how you feel about him, so he probably will avoid that topic because he doesn’t want to hurt you. That’s my educated guess, but of course I don’t know.
So maybe I need a recycle dumpster instead LOL. This is a much better analogy.
I will get to them soon enough here but then I need to know how to get past them never to be surfaced again…I know it’s not a one and done thing but I’m still here so there’s that… Getting past traumatic, heart breaking events requires working with an expert. You can’t think through them, you can’t dissect them and understand every single aspect of them and expect the pain to go away. Some pain may be released, but the core/deep wounding that occurs requires working with someone who knows how to guide you through those things. That is not what I do here, so you may want to hold those stories for a more private setting with someone who help you release that pain. I will tell you it’s possible though. My coach is INCREDIBLE and highly skilled with navigating the worst of life…and believe me – I have survived the darkest, most evil acts that most people don’t even know exist. Even those many moments have been great gifts for me. It is worth the money and worth the effort and worth the thousands of tears and rage and heartbreak to let go of the past. I’m happy to send you the information of my coach if you feel ready to deep dive like that. Just let me know.
Heidi
Thank you for remaining open and receptive Karen! Let’s keep digging in…
Funny story but also reflection of it makes sense as to why I struggle with voicing my opinions/concerns. I get it. I too struggled…it’s actually quite a common challenge for most women, as we are still dealing with a patriarchal approach to this world. I mean if you think about it, women finally were allowed to vote starting in the early 1900s, but even still, their opinions and voices were not recognized as equal. So us ladies not only have our personal struggles with using our voices, we all come from a looooooong lineage of a global collective not valuing our voices for thousands of years. Things are shifting now though. Every time you speak up Karen, you are not only speaking for yourself but for all women who were never allowed to express themselves. Keep working at it! Your voice matters. Maybe not to the person in front of you for that moment, but it matters to the collective. It matters to you and that little girl who shut down and wouldn’t talk. Give her a voice..but of course, allow her speak constructively. I love how would rather choose to say silent instead of something abusive or harmful and I love how you used letters to still express yourself. Good job! Keep doing that!
What kind of mom would he see me as? That’s why I couldn’t look at him or barely even finish the story. The real question here is not about how HE would see, but how do YOU see you. The truth is, when YOU are okay with yourself, it doesn’t matter what someone else thinks. For example, let’s say you have brown hair and you KNOW you have brown hair and someone comes along and says you have blond hair. Would their perspective matter? Would their view change your view? Nope. Why? Because you are solid in what you know. So because you cared sooooooo much about how he viewed you, that just shows how judgmental and critical you are towards yourself first and foremost, about your choices as a mother. I encourage you to really dive into this one and forgive yourself. The truth is, EVERY mother and father make decisions that cause harm to their children. EVERY parent is messy and that mess gets passed down to the children. There is no way around it. BUT…forgiving yourself for your humanness is soooooo important. It not only allows you to be free from your past, it also role models to your children how to move forward in life and not stay stuck in the past. Every time you make a decision to let go of the pain from your past, you are freeing yourself AND them energetically. You are sooooo forgiving and loving and connective with your guy, despite HIS messiness, yet you won’t offer the same compassion to yourself. Would you be willing to shift that for yourself?
I don’t want to see where I went wrong because I don’t believe I did anything wrong This is great, because it’s true. However, there is a flavor here where you are wanting to understand him “better” so you can support him “better” which insinuates that what you are doing isn’t enough to begin with….which insinuates on some level that you are doing missing something or doing something wrong. Even you apologizing for not giving him enough space insinuates that you did something “wrong.” Maybe “wrong” is not the best word. Maybe it’s more that you feel you are not doing enough, so you need to do better. This is more the flavor I am talking about. Do you have thoughts like “I wonder what I said that caused him to disappear?” “I wonder if I did something that pushed him away.” “What am I missing here?” Or anything of that nature….do these kinds of thoughts come into your mind?
He says he made peace with his dad before he passed but I don’t think he has and neither does his sister. I’m sure he made peace on some level, but unfortunately, there are multiple layers between parent and child. The thing is, if he never works with that child who was harmed by his father, he will ALWAYS feel unsafe, angry, resentful, over function, and have a ton of baggage. His adult side may have made peace with his dad, but his child self that is holding the memories and the pain from the past certainly did not.
If I am strong then I can be strong for others. Yes! Very true. But I’m curious…what does “being strong” look like to you? What do you think “strength” is?
I suppress my pain.Tuck it in the depths where nobody can see it unless they start poking around. Yes…this is what most people do. It’s how most people survive. The thing is, you THINK no one can see it, but I saw it from your first post. Pain is actually quite clear to see in someone if you just look at the kind of language they use, the decisions they make, and how they relate to themselves. It is more obvious than you realize. And that’s okay. It’s just part of human nature and learning how to relate to pain in a different way, is what will completely change how you move through life.
Pain to me is that baggage I need to dig out and throw in that dumpster..As of late, I’m thinking I need a bigger dumpster. I want to offer a different way to view this. Taking your pain out to the dumpster is a great analogy and I get it. It’s letting it go. However, pain is your teacher. It is showing you where you are not healed yet. It is an energy that is here to serve you, IF you let it. So instead of throwing your “pain” in the trash, how about imagining it being transformed into something beautiful…like butterflies, like sparkles, like love and gratitude. That’s what happens every time I heal…that pain transforms and gets added to my bank of love. Your memories then get released also transform and nothing has to go into the trash, so to speak. This type of perspective means you are viewing the worst moments of your life as something to value instead of something you are trying to get away from and dump. You want to work WITH the pain, not get rid of it. Does this make sense?
Heidi
Thanks for sticking with me Karen! I completely get your frustration. Communication is definitely a skill and doesn’t come easy for most people – especially when it comes to feelings that involve another person. I love that you are still willing to learn! That is the most important quality you could ever have!
I am a master communicator and very good at it, but my training in communication began in my teenage years. The key to effective communication is knowing yourself, your patterns, your feelings…inside and out. The more you understand what lives beneath the surface of your feelings and stories, the easier it is to filter out what doesn’t need to be said and what is worth saying. The other KEY part of effective communication, is to be very clear about WHY you want to communicate something. There are MANY times I will not express my feelings, because the person receiving it, wouldn’t receive it well. All I would be doing is expressing my thoughts and feelings, only to end up feeling rejected all over again. Other times, I know I will most likely be rejected, but I say what I need to say for the SOLE purpose of using my voice and practicing saying something that is hard for me to say. Learning how, when, and what to say is a skill and takes a lot of practice. Most of all, learning how to communicate in a way that doesn’t put YOUR feelings in the hands of the other person, is another key. How I feel, is 100% my responsibility…end of story. If I am expressing my feelings for the OTHER person to fix them, I am then disempowered and asking the other person to do for me, what I am not willing to do for myself. This is a really tough question that my coach always brings me back to when I am upset with someone or want something from someone. What is it that you are wanting them to do for you that you are not willing to do for yourself? This is soooooo not a fun question, because it requires you to learn how meet your own needs instead of looking to someone else. It’s the more difficult path, yet the path that keeps you empowered and builds confidence. Would you be willing to spend some time with this question? I’d love to know what answers you come up with. If you need help with this one, let me know.
This coach I’m working with doesn’t think I stand up for myself enough..She’s made some really good points..This spineless thing really bothers me though..Hell my nickname in high-school was Spaz..I didn’t want to live flying off the handle and not understanding the whole situation..That’s called growth and maturity..Trying to stick it out with her because I need to hear the hard truths..I need honesty or I can’t grow.. His response was: Stand and don’t take bullshit..Lol I don’t deal with any of it anymore..Lol I’m one that if you F**k with me and you will find out quickly..Lol Let’s talk about the spineless thing. I would not put that word on it. You just have a co-dependent pattern – a pattern that is part of your DNA and that you can’t help. It’s the coping strategy that you used and developed in your younger years in order to survive. Every single one of us has a coping strategy. Mine was narcissism, shutting down and being passive aggressive, being revengeful, and sometimes being super co-dependent. Our coping strategies will be with us FOREVER. No matter how healthy you get, no matter how much you clear your baggage and become higher functioning, your need to please others at the expense of yourself will ALWAYS be running in your veins. As you grow and become stronger, all that happens is that you are able to manage that coping strategy in a much better way. Your instinct will be to make the other person happy, but instead what you will do is consciously acknowledge that feeling and then make a different choice, instead of always giving into that instinctual response. That “spineless” part of you is a gift and saved you. The little girl you were needed to figure out how to survive your life and she did a pretty darn good job of it. Your “peacemaker” did exactly what she needed to do in order to feel the safest she possibly could, so how about you rename that part of yourself from “spineless” to “peacemaker.” That is so much more the truth of that part of you.
His response was him encouraging you and he is right, sort of. He is angry and frustrated and his anger is protecting him from feeling the amount of hurt he is carrying. He is going from one extreme to the other – letting people in that are going to definitely use him, to not letting anyone in at all – including you. A more healthy response would come from the energy of clarity and discernment – something he doesn’t have.
I draw blanks and get overwhelmed with connection. It’s why I prefer to type/write things out. Then I can read it more than once to understand better. I guess where I am really confused with him is when he stopped being so open with me. I realize he may also be having a hard time putting into words what he wants to say and therefore ghosting is a much easier thing for him to do. How do I convey this frustration? Writing is great! It definitely is a very powerful way to start. I do the same thing sometimes. I will write and write and write and modify a ton of times until I am very clear about what I want to say. But then…I make sure that I saw what I need to say in person. That’s the skill Karen. If you want deep connection, using your voice is soooooo so important. And the truth is, even if you get messy with it, the people that are worth fighting for and having in your life, will love you regardless. Those that cannot tolerate your messiness in communication, they are not the right fit for you.
Him ghosting is HIS coping strategy. Yes, he may have a hard time finding the words, but there are MANY other layers and reasons why someone ghosts. Fear is the biggest, core reason. They are afraid of getting hurt AND it’s also a passive aggressive way to “get back” at the person. Let me see if I can explain this….although you are not a person who has really hurt him, you are a female, therefore you get lumped into the “female” category of the type of person he cannot “trust” because his original role model, his mother, didn’t protect him. He is viewing women through a child’s lens, not an adult lens (he is not aware of this of course – it’s all coming from the subconscious). So his ghosting is a VERY young response to his life. His ghosting is HIS little boy trying to survive – that little boy is terrified and doesn’t trust life – so no matter how nice you are to him, he is going to run – not because of you, but because of the pain that lives within him and is soooooo big, that it is running his life. Does this make sense?
It wasn’t until he texted me about the actual break up that I found out he had been still with her all summer.Somehow this didn’t make me angry at all with him..I’m thinking that I need a sit down with him at some point and we really need to dive into what has happened over the past year..Yes in a sense I can see he has been stringing me along and maybe his intentions were purely just being able to connect on some level with a female. He was getting one thing from me and another with her and the more I treated him with respect, the less he was connected to her? Does he feel guilty about our connection? I’m just throwing out random thoughts as they pop in my head and hopefully you can make sense of them. I’m not sure he is conscious about stringing you along. I think that you truly mean something to him and he probably feels the safest with you compared to any other woman he has come across. However, like I previously said, he is one big ball of pain – and it’s enough pain, that he has no idea how to view his life, you, or anything for that matter, through a clear lens. Pain is always part of his filter. He doesn’t trust love, he doesn’t trust deep connection, he doesn’t trust other people – but at the core, he doesn’t trust himself. Again, he doesn’t have awareness of this. He is just doing the best he can to survive his life and keep the pain as minimal as possible.
Please excuse the the scatter of my brain but I really want to make sense of what has happened between us this past year to now. Listen Karen, you are wanting something from him that he can’t give you. You want to pick his brain and talk about his deep insecurities and talk about his feelings, and talk about the why and what and how of all of it. You want this deep understanding from him. You want HIM to make sense of this relationship, but why? It doesn’t matter what has happened over the past year. The details of why he makes the choices he does mean absolutely nothing. What DOES matter is the end result – and that’s it. The end result is that he is someone who ghosts…that is HIS coping mechanism. Someone who ghosts is full of fear and that fear will ALWAYS prevent intimacy. It has NOTHING to do with you specifically. He would be like this, no matter who was standing in front of him. I’m guessing you are trying to have this deep understanding so you can see where YOU went wrong that would cause him to ghost. Yes? What will this understanding you are seeking, do for you? What do you think you will get from understanding him better?
The friend “Level” : worthy of hanging out with, just someone to talk to now and then, customer friend etc. Like where do I fit in all that, what are my boundaries? I don’t want to be a one sided friend where if I need to vent or express to him that he doesn’t return the favor. I am who I am, I feel every person is important and will often times put my needs aside to help others. I’ve been working on that and setting my own boundaries and only doing/helping where I choose to. You are asking where you fit and it’s a great question, but I want to invite you to approach this question differently. How about, where does HE fit? You keep trying to figure out how YOU fit with him, but instead – a more empowered and confident mindset is – where does HE fit for you? Is HE worthy of your trust, your love, your connection?. Yes, every person is important AND it does not mean that you put your needs aside to help others. These 2 things are not synonymous. Like I previously have said, learning how to be comfortable with someone else’s pain and discomfort is important. The only way to do that, is to first get comfortable with your own pain. Getting comfortable with pain means changing the story you have about it. Most people view pain as something to get out of as fast as possible, something to avoid, something to run from, something to fix as fast as possible. Instead, my story about pain is it’s my teacher. That means spending time with my pain. That means exploring what it has to teach me about whatever is happening. It is the greatest gift to people….pain reveals where we are not free. So because I have the highest respect and honor for my own pain, it allows me to also have that for others – therefore there is no need for me to put my needs aside for others. I trust they can figure out how to meet their own needs and that the pain or discomfort they are feelings is an important part for them to learn how to become more empowered in their life. Does this bring understanding on a deeper level? I know I’ve said all of this before, but someone saying it differently can be helpful.
I’m so very proud of you Karen. You are brave, open and willing to learn, even in your frustration – and you are really wanting more out of life. I love that you are here!
Let me know your thoughts!
Heidi
