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Hi Laura,
Wow! You really are going through a lot. I’m sooooo so sorry! It is soooo incredibly difficult to let go of love. Here is a great video that will give you more insight into what you are facing within yourself and why it’s so hard to let go. Hope this helps.
Now let’s talk about your questions:
do I allow him to be friends like he wants and needs? Like Spyce was saying, this question is all about him. You cannot rescue him. His pain and the absence of you in his life is sooooo important for his growth. Pain is an INCREDIBLE motivator for growth. If you truly want him to grow, then he needs to feel every ounce of pain and discomfort possible. If you truly want to grow, it’s time for you to start putting yourself in the equation and asking “What is important for ME?” “What do I need and want?” “What are the best decisions I can make that are loving towards myself?” Now you answer your own question. Do you allow him to be friends with you?
How do I shut him off without feeling guilty if he hurts his self? You go to therapy. You are not responsible for his happiness. If he hurts himself, it’s not because of you. It’s because he has built up sooooo much baggage and doesn’t want to deal with it, that it would take him down that path. If he is THAT depressed, he needs to go see a psychiatrist and get on some meds. NO ONE can save him except for himself. If he decides to hurt himself or commit suicide, as cold as this sounds, that’s on HIM. You CANNOT live your life FOR HIM. You cannot stay connected to a guy who won’t fight for himself. So if he does decide to hurt himself, then you get yourself to a therapist and work through the feelings that show up about it and release the guilt.
Do I tell his boss, her husband, or confront her with the information (only reason I toy with this is because he is in public service so I hold those in high regard—this behavior goes against both of their oaths and as someone who was in this field, I feel obligated to call it out). My personal opinion is stay out of it. Others might tell you differently. This is between him and her. Besides, if you say something and he loses his job, it could cause him to sink into a deeper depression and who knows what else. There could also be consequences for you telling as well, that you are not even aware of. I personally like to stay out of messes like this and trust that all will be revealed as it’s supposed to be. It may go against their oath, but who you are to point this out? You are not in a position of authority nor a position to make any changes about it. You most likely will come across more as a tattle tale and a disgruntled ex girlfriend than anything. That’s just my thought on it though. What I personally like to do before making decisions like this, is make sure I clear ALL my judgment, my hurt, my anger etc. Once I forgive the people for their choices, release ALL the negative energy, THEN I am emotionally and spiritually clear enough to decide what I need to do. Does this make sense?
Heidi
Thank you for sharing more of your story! This is so difficult isn’t it? I know how completely frustrating it can be to have a connection and not be able to do anything about it. The core, root emotion you are dealing with, is powerlessness. Powerlessness, in my opinion, is one of the most difficult emotions to feel. It drives people to do things, more often than not, that are not healthy and are destructive, because people are just trying to gain control again and stop the pain. I want to encourage you to take this time and get to know the feeling of powerlessness. It won’t be the last time you feel this and a person who can be in relationship with it, learn how to be okay with it and sit with it and mostly not run from it, is a person who will actually be very powerful in their life. Since you are on a bit of a break and doing no contact, now is the perfect time to deal with this. Letting go of him, letting go of the idea of him and instead attaching yourself to the idea of “I ask for the highest good of all concerned,” – this can shift everything. I’ve watched it happen over and over and over again. When people can accept the powerlessness, they let go of their needs, their wants and the control of a situation to turn how a specific way and they become free! And funny enough, the energies of a situation shift, sometimes taking people in different directions, but many times bringing them back together.
What is most important for you to understand, is yourself. What is he triggering in you? What low self-esteem is he activating in you? What does this powerlessness make you think and feel? These are the “holes” in your psyche. These are what I call the fault lines…the places where we all have cracks in our belief systems and where ALL the lies live. Love is one of the most powerful experiences to show us where our fault lines are. It sucks and feels awful AND it’s an opportunity to get to know ourselves and work with the emotions that come up. You were taught to be selfless and now you get to tap into self-love and what that means for you. This experience is giving you an opportunity to learn this aspect of your life, something you have never known before.
Does this make sense? Thoughts?
Lastly, can you explain further what this means? his “quirk” comes from a learning disability and that’s honestly the main reason I’m having diffuculty in the situation. What about his “quirk” is making you want to hold on?
Heidi
I think that Tim may need to just experience Anna and get her out of his system. Do you know how Anna feels about him? Does she know you still like him? Out of curiosity, on a scale of 1-10, how much do you want to be with him and create a relationship with him?
I know this may be an uncomfortable question, but do you masturbate at all? There are so many women who don’t know themselves that way. I ask this because it is a very important part of feminine energy and flirting. Women who masturbate are so much more comfortable with their bodies, their sexual energy and will have a kind of confidence that is very attractive to men….AND many studies support improved sexual experiences with a partner. That seems kind of obvious, but somehow the majority of women just are not adventurous on their own. So again, I want to take you back to yourself. This flirty, sexual energy, that seems to be a bit shut down for you, is something you want to explore within yourself. If you really take this path and develop this part of yourself, you will be SHOCKED at how much more attention you will get from men. The goal is obviously not to get attention, it’s just a side benefit to the real purpose of awakening and knowing ALL aspects of yourself. I’m not sure this is a journey you want to take though.
How are you and Anna doing, in your mind? I imagine you might be comparing yourself to her a lot and I imagine you have some feelings about her messing around and not really taking Tim seriously. Do you feel frustrated or angry about that all? Like it’s not fair? Or maybe thinking here she has this great guy and she doesn’t even know it or truly appreciate him?
Heidi
Flirting with text or snapchat can look various ways. Your goal is to just make him feel good about himself with a little bit of spice. Flirting has sexual/sensual energy to it. So you can say something as simple as “You look so dam hot in that shirt” or “I was thinking about you today and when you did ……. and it made me have the butterflies.” The thing about flirting though, is you have to have the kind of relationship that supports it otherwise, it just becomes awkward. You obviously cannot just send him messages like this because you have never done that before and your FWB is over, so it would just be too weird. You need to build it up first. Since you guys have a plan to go hiking soon, it’s an opportunity to get his attention. Wear something that makes you feel good about yourself, do your hair in a way that makes you feel attractive (since you are going hiking, you obviously don’t want to get all dolled up with curls and stuff, but a cute messy bun or something of that nature that is appropriate for the activity works!), wear a shirt that compliments your skin tone and eyes and put on your girly energy. It would be a good time to throw in some flirting to see how he responds. Since you guys still talk, I imagine it’s strictly platonic, yes? You guys are just activating friend energy and nothing more, correct?
It sounds like Anna has his attention for some reason and again, I’m wondering if he really likes her because he senses her sexual energy. I say that because it doesn’t sound like he knows her very well other than sensing her energy and what she could be like. Is that accurate?
As far as Dave, if you want to meet up, go for it! Why would it be awkward? Tim is going for your friend, so why not give yourself the freedom to get to know his friend? If you feel inspired, then great, if you don’t, that’s okay too. Do whatever you want and don’t let Tim stand in the way of any of that. You might find that you like Dave…who knows.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Megan,
Welcome to the forum! Thank you for sharing your story with us. I deeply understand your need to want to be wanted. It’s a core need for women and it’s being triggered in you.
Let’s talk about men first. What the most important thing to understand about men, is their CORE NEED is to be able to “produce” in this world. If a man’s ability to produce in this world is threatened, not solid or doesn’t exist, a man will fall apart. I have experienced this sooooo many times and it is fascinating! Every guy I have ever dated who didn’t have their job lined up, who didn’t feel good about their job or who was lost as to the kind of job they wanted, they were a mess! They were HORRIBLE at relationship. Men don’t know who they are if they are not able to produce in this world. Even stay at home dads will find “projects” they need to complete in order to produce something. Taking care of the kids is just not enough for them. So it’s VERY IMPORTANT…it’s CRUCIAL for your guy’s business to go well and he will ALWAYS have a very high need to care for his business more than you.
The core needs of women are “relationships / connection.” If we don’t have connection/relationship, then we fall apart. We don’t know who we are, we are lost, we are miserable and we get messy. Women are the natural caretakers of relationship. That’s why is much easier for a woman to feel comfortable at home, caring for her children and being in relationship with all the other moms and teachers etc. and the dad works. It fundamentally meets the natural core needs of each.
So your need to connect is rubbing up against his need to produce. Is his need more important than your own or vice versa? Nope. They BOTH are super important and they BOTH need attention.
Here is my main question. Is it normal for him to work this much? Or is this just a season he is going through? If he is a workaholic, then that’s a different beast to deal with compared to him needing to work this much because it’s just necessary right now. What are your thoughts on this? How long have you guys been dating? Do you live together?
Heidi
Hi Christian,
Welcome to the forum! Thank you for sharing your story and your challenges with us here. You are dealing with something so incredibly difficult. May I ask your ages?I’m going to be very blunt and honest here with my perspective. It doesn’t mean you have to agree or follow what I say. I just ask that we keep talking about it, as there are MANY MANY layers and dynamics to what is happening between you guys.
He IS stringing you along. Anyone who keeps saying “I still have feelings for you” without the intention of following through with it, is playing a game. What’s the point of saying that unless you mean it and want to do something about it? The point would be to get a dose of self-esteem. Him knowing that he still has power in your life and him knowing that you are still there carrying a flame for him, makes him feel valuable, important, cared about and that he matters…to someone. He is using you to get a “shot” of self-esteem so he can feel good about himself. Now, what’s important to understand, is he probably doesn’t really understand the full dynamics of what he is doing. My guess is, he is like most people who are just trying to do what they can to feel better, so they just follow their feelings without really understanding the consequences or how they are affecting the other person. This kind of behavior comes from very deep woundedness and A LOT of low self-esteem. I know this type of behavior because I used to do it all of the time. I had a TON of baggage and I would use the guys I dated as a way to survive and a way to find some kind of self-esteem to help me feel good about who I was. The thing is, it works. That’s why people do it. It works at the expense of the other person though and it’s the kind of self-esteem that NEVER lasts, because once the source is taken away, you have to go find another one and then another one and then another one. It’s a miserable kind of existence and makes that person VERY fragile emotionally. I changed my behavior once I started doing VERY deep therapy and finally facing the baggage I was carrying around. Now I am my own source of self-esteem, which is the ultimate goal.
Your side of this, is you are participating in this design. You are participating partly because you too are wanting doses of self-esteem from him. An emotionally healthy person does not allow someone to play games with their heart. An emotionally healthy person walks away once the other person begins to mistreat and disrespect their heart. An emotionally healthy person loves and chooses themselves more than the unhealthy connection. You get your dose of self-esteem in a different than he does though. Your dose of self-esteem comes from “saving” him. If you get to be “that” person who saves him from his misery, then you get to feel valuable and like you matter. It’s called the “winning formula.” We all have one. It’s the formula we use in relationships to help us feel like we matter, feel like we are valuable, feel like we have something to offer. For me, my formula is being a teacher. I am ALWAYS teaching others about their emotional, their deeper selves etc. so I can feel like I have value in their life. You are trying to “save” him from his misery so you can feel like you are valuable. He is creating drama and keeping you hooked so he knows he matters in your life. There are million different formulas we all use and it’s okay! The important thing is, is to become aware of them, when the formula is functioning for good in your life and when it is causing harm. You obviously have a HUGE HUGE heart. You care and connect very deeply and that is an amazing gift that you have. I say gift, because not everybody has the capacity to care the way you do. It also means that you can get attached and hurt very easily. So it needs to be the #1 job of yours to protect your gift. Care for your heart as if it were a rare, precious treasure that needs constant care, nourishment and attention in order to stay healthy. That means being cautious of who you let into your life, that means giving your heart healthy places to be it’s expansive, powerful self (i.e. doing charity work for a cause you are passionate about), that means knowing when to walk away, that means doing DAILY ACTIONS to keep your heart healthy (i.e. put flowers around your house, journal your feelings, see a therapist, treat yourself like gold emotionally, spiritually, physically whatever that means for you, get a dog or cat so your heart has a safe place to fully and completely love the way it’s designed to). Does this make sense?
Let’s just start here with these concepts and see how you feel about all of it. Looking forward to your response.
Heidi
This is good stuff! Thank you for sharing the conversation and sharing more of yourself. I love how strong you are and your ability to be vulnerable. I want to suggest you watch the movie “Embrace.” https://youtu.be/LDAyBsUqlYA It’s a powerful movie and one to watch MANY times as a reminder of the truth!!!
I think one of the places to start for you is getting more comfortable with yourself and dealing with your social anxiety. Here is the main question I have. What are you willing to do to step into your full self? Are you willing to work with a therapist or coach? Your past is hindering your present and will ALWAYS hinder your future. The fear you carry is paralyzing and it’s up to you to face it or not. So what do you want? It may or may not bring you closer to Carson. Who knows. Either way, the fear you carry stops you from fully and completely living your life.
That’s an interesting conversation you had with Carson. It’s good you didn’t push it. The truth is, he is not open to being with you RIGHT NOW. Again, he KNOWS that being with you is NOT a light decision. It means marriage. He knows that if he gives himself to you, you are never going to let go so if he goes that route, he better be ready to go the long haul. It feels nice for him to know that you are always there though. He gets to feel loved and valued by someone and that’s always a good self-esteem booster, so of course he doesn’t mind you saying that you still like him. He has to make sure he has his head screwed on right before stepping into anything with you. In the meantime, your job is to become the best version of yourself possible. You have soooo attached onto this guy that in a lot of ways, you have stopped living and growing your life. I don’t expect you to stop feeling for him. What I am more encouraging you to do is to focus on yourself and really start working on your fears and the traumas that keep you stuck. When you focus on yourself and your healing a whole new world will open for you.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Jasmine,
Welcome! I am sooooo so sorry for what you are going through. I can see why you would just want to fix everything and rewind your choice.
The thing is…I’m not sure that what you did was so horrible. What you actually need to pay more attention to, is HOW he is handling this challenge. Relationships mean that every couple is going to face challenges and discord. HOW they handle those challenges is what will make or break the relationship. He is choosing to stonewall you. A person who responds like that is someone who is actually NOT capable of a healthy relationship. Stonewalling BREAKS intimacy and trust. He is angry that YOU broke his trust, all the while he is breaking trust and safety in the relationship. So he is doing the EXACT thing that he is angry at you about. Yes, you broke trust by snooping, but he is ONLY looking at the snooping aspect and not willing to look at how he contributed, what his part in the whole situation is and how to resolve it. Instead, he just wants to put all the blame on you.
I teach people that when choosing a partner to go the distance with, you need to choose them according to who they are in the worst, not their best. Meaning, how do they respond under stress? How do they treat you, themselves and others when the shit hits the fan? And the same questions apply to you as well. How people treat each other in their very worst moments will make or break the relationship, regardless of how great things are when everything is on point. Your guys is showing you that is you disrepect him, hurt him or break his trust (this WILL NOT be the last time you hurt him), he is going to punish you by pulling away and putting walls up, he is not going to take responsibility for his side of things and he is going to just play the victim while he watches you do a HUGE song and dance to try and get him back. Is that really what you want to participate in?
The reality is, whatever was happening BEFORE you snooped, he wasn’t in this to begin with. He is connecting with his ex, he was saying no to spending time with you and he was putting little to no effort into nourishing this relationship with you. Yuk!!! Are you sure you want to keep fighting for that?? Are you sure you want to fight for a guy who didn’t make you feel like the most important person in his life? Are you sure you want to fight for a guy who would rather punish you instead of work through things WITH you?
Thoughts?
Heidi
You are asking some great questions!
The thing is, all your focus and attention and questions are about HIM. The questions need to be about you, in order to find the answers.
But how do I know I m his person or not? Instead, ask yourself Is this how I want to feel in a relationship? Is this a relationship that I feel really good about? Is this a relationship that if it NEVER CHANGED, I could be happy in for another 10-20 years? The thing about this relationship is he is being polyamorous and you are participating in that design. If that design does not suit you, then you know what your priority is. He gives you some amazing connection and support AND he also does the same for another woman. If you have a need to be the ONLY woman, then there’s your answer. He is NOT going to change and spending all of your energy trying to get him to change so you can feel happier in the relationship, is NOT accepting him for who he is and is completely rejecting and harmful to yourself. The question is not whether or not you are his person but instead, “Is loving him ALSO loving to myself?” Do you feel that staying in this design where your guy splits his attention is a design that is loving to you?
Again, you are in a polyamorous relationship. This is who he is, so you either hop on board with that, accept it, understand and get to know what that means and EMBRACE this design, or you leave. But to stay and keep wanting him to change is torture, is not accepting and loving to him or yourself and it’s damaging.
If you stay, it’s time for you to deal with the hurt IN YOURSELF and maybe join him on this journey and design and release your need to be the ONLY one. It won’t be easy, but it’s possible to be happy in a design like this. There are PLENTY of polyamorous couples who, when they do it right, are very happy together. If you don’t want to go this route, then you have to face the pain of the loss of him. Either path is going to be hard for you, so it’s not an easy decision.
Thoughts?
Heidi
This is great info! Thank you for sharing!
I completely understand your desire to want to share life and create memories with someone more meaningful. It’s normal and natural and it’s a much more powerful experience. I was the same way at your age. It feels good to grow roots with someone and go through life together.
Flirting needs to be authentic for it to work. Meaning, you need to FEEL sexy, FEEL attractive, FEEL your divine feminine and THEN you flirt. That way it doesn’t come off as desperate or awkward or like you are trying too hard. Again, watch and observe Anna. Watch movies where the woman is flirting and you will see that confidence is leaking out of her pores. Angelina Jolie is a good one to watch! Watch “The Tourist.” That’s a beautiful representation of flirting.
Think about the things that you wear sometimes. Every outfit we put on will make us feel differently. So make sure you have outfits that make you feel sexier. What are the hairstyles that make you feel more sexy and confident? How would you do your makeup differently if you wanted to feel more confident and sexy? What shoes would you wear? If you don’t have things like that in your closet or know how to do your hair and makeup to shift your mood, then this is a good place to start.
Flirting is also about being connective. It can be about laughing and little touches and strong eye contact or it can be being a bit more mysterious, throwing out little signals enough to get his attention, but also making him wonder what’s happening. It can be subtle or overt. There’s a range. It can be something as simple as a smile or as complicated as using your whole body to communicate something to a man. It’s fascinating really, but I will tell you it’s about practicing. Fliritng is a skill. The skill is not necessarily how to flirt, but more about how to take that feminine energy within you, light it on fire and decide how you want to express it. What kind of game do you want to play with that energy? What kind of ways to do you want the man to feel?
Is this making sense?
What’s the update on him and Anna? Are they still having fun and doing a FWB thing? Are you and he still talking?
Heidi
Wow Marla, it’s usually not this easy! lol. How are you doing/feeling about your choice? Have you completely ended it yet? What’s the update?
Heidi
Hi Pam,
Welcome to the forum! I can see why you are struggling with your husband. It’s really difficult to feel good about yourself when your husband is commenting and flirting with other women. Let’s see what we can do to help! I just have some questions first.
Was he like this from the beginning of your marriage? If not, how long has this behavior been going on?
Have you talked to him on a deeper level about how this is affecting you? Has he shared his side of the story with you?
Does he watch porn?
How is your sex life together?
Does he flirt with you? Do you flirt with him?
Other than this particular behavior, do you enjoy/like your marriage with him? Do you think he feels the same way?
Is there any indication/evidence that he goes beyond flirting and takes action and cheats?In order for you to feel secure, it first and foremost comes from within you. Relying on your husband, or any other person for that matter, to help you feel good about yourself is not a source that will last and is a source that is unstable. Learning how to love and value yourself, regardless of the circumstances and person sitting in front of you, is a lifelong journey. Self-esteem comes from the inside and begins with us forgiving and releasing the hurts/traumas from the past and forgiving ourself for our limitations. Traumas, hurt and the stories we hold onto as our reality are the blocks that keep us from feeling good about ourselves. That’s the deeper work that needs to be done in order to truly improve your relationship with yourself. Have you ever worked with a Therapist or a Coach? Is that something you would be willing/interested in doing to help you navigate this journey?
Heidi
Amanda! This is great! I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you are connecting more deeply to yourself and you are still continuing to live your life. It’s definitely a step in the right direction! Tell me, what kinds of things are you doing to take care of yourself? What are you doing to focus on yourself?
Heidi
Hi Vino,
Thank you for sharing so much more detail. I am getting a much more clear picture about how you are experiencing your life and it’s wonderful!!!
I’m sooooooo glad to hear your son is finding his balance and that you guys are connecting much more. I’m curious. You said him going to Ethiopia really changed him. Why is that? What do you think he got there that helped him shift?
I can see you are having a brand new experience with JB on soooo many levels. You wonder why you aren’t possessive of his time and his attentions like you have been before. First, I think you have grown tremendously and have become more confident in yourself. Second, I think that JB has helped fill you up in many different ways. Each relationship has a soul bank account. So how much “money” is in that bank account at any given time, can influence the dynamics of the connection and how each person feels about it. That’s why the concept of “small things often” is really powerful. Small acts of love, attention, kindness, gentleness etc. OFTEN is what keeps that bank account full and growing. So whenever there is discord and challenge, there is PLENTY of “money” in the account to handle it. So my guess is, you feel like the bank account between you guys is pretty full. It’s nourishing, it’s empowering and it makes you feel very connected therefore, there is no “neediness” for attention from him. Does this make sense?
That’s amazing how your relationship with God has grown for you. Your connection with God is changing your life. It’s bringing more peace, more clarity and mostly a feeling of safety. Wow!!! This is spectacular! There is a confidence in you that I have not hear from you before. Everything you are doing, is helping you become more and more expanded. I LOVE the volunteer position you are going to sign up for. It’s perfect for you! I LOVE that you are following the “no-resistance” policy to make these kinds of decisions in your life. You really are doing such an incredible job connecting deeper to yourself and God.
Yes…you are a completely different person compared to your very first message. I’m glad you went back and read that so you can see how far you have come!!!
JB is so blessed to have you in his life. He is definitely connected to you and you are a BIG part of his life. Whether it ever turns romantic or not, the connection you guys have created together is healing right now.
Heidi
