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Hi Diana!
Welcome to the forum! Thank you for sharing your story. It’s so incredibly hard to feel a connection with a man and to not have him respond in the way you want. He obviously does feel something with you, but he is just not available.
I’m going to be quite blunt here. He has not deceived you. He has been very honest with you from the beginning, that he is not available for a relationship. The guy is a workaholic for a reason. People who “work” and are so darn busy that they don’t have time for a relationship – they are doing that on purpose. It’s just an excuse. The real reason is they don’t WANT a relationship. I’m not saying he is conscious of this. He has a lot of people he is taking care of and he has a lot of valid excuses, but remember…this is HIS CHOICE. He obviously cannot keep his word. He says one thing and does not follow through, yet you keep chasing him. This, in and of itself, is a HUGE RED FLAG!!! LISTEN to what he is telling you. HE DOES NOT WANT A RELATIONSHIP. HE WILL HURT YOU. He is correct…you guys aren’t even dating yet and he has managed to hurt your feelings a few times. He has no follow through and nor does he want to. He is not going to change, because HE DOES NOT TO CHANGE. This is who he is. The relationship will be you chasing him all the time and him always canceling or not following through on what he says and work will always be the excuse. Workaholics have an addiction, just as serious as any other addiction. He is making himself sooooo busy so he doesn’t have to feel what lives inside of him. It’s how he copes.
Is this really what you want to deal with? A guy who doesn’t want a relationship, a guy who has little to no integrity in his word and a guy who is emotionally unavailable?
You are worth more than what this guy can offer Diana. You DESERVE to have a man treating you like a queen. You deserve to have a man who follows through on what he says and is constantly making plans with you because he wants to be with you. You deserve a guy who thinks the world of you and WANTS to be available for you.
Thoughts?
Heidi
I am so sorry Nhu. This is heartbreaking! I know how badly it can hurt to watch your guy, the man you love and have been with for 4 years, completely turn into another person AND to treat you like you are someone so horrible by setting up walls and being cold…as if he has to protect himself from you. That’s an awful feeling!
However, that’s not the case at all, and I have no idea how to make sense of it. Our time together was precious, but it personally feels like he’s trying to erase any traces of me. He is not trying to “erase” you. He is just trying to NOT FEEL. There is a difference. Erasing you means forgetting you. Instead, he just doesn’t want to hurt and looking at the pictures will remind him of something he doesn’t want to be reminded of right now. It’s just a coping mechanism. The extent and strength of his walls and disconnect is reflective of how much he feels for you and loves you. The bigger the love and feelings, the bigger the walls and coldness need to be. I know that sounds “off” and can be confusing, but it’s just how people behave.
It seems like he’s suppressing his feelings/thoughts, and our friends say that he seems to be trying to convince himself that this was the right thing to do whenever he talks to them about it. Is there a way I can address this with him? Or is this one of those things where he has to come to the realization himself? No. This is not for you to address with him. This is something he has do within himself, by himself. He is so terribly confused right now and HE has to be the one to figure it out, so that whatever decisions he comes to, he is SOLID in those choices. If you come in and try to help him, he could easily create the story that YOU influenced him, therefore it’s not really HIS decision. This is definitely something he needs to work through himself and come to his own conclusions on.
It’s really disheartening to know that he’s carrying on and acting like nothing happened while I feel like I’m the only one hurting. I’ve heard that men tend to not realize their regret after a break up until months later. Is this true? You are definitely NOT the only one hurting! He is so uncomfortable and so terrified of his life and losing you right now and the way I know that is because of how BIG his walls are. For someone who feels resolved and peaceful with their choice, there are no walls because there is nothing to defend against…they feel aligned. For him, he is putting up some GIANT walls, talking a lot with his friends, taking pictures down and disconnecting from you in really strong ways. He is NOT in alignment with his choice. He is confused, he is hurting and he is NOT a happy camper right now.
Yes, let him go. By letting him go, you are taking care of yourself. As long as you leave the door open, you are staying open to a guy who isn’t facing his fears or his life in unhealthy ways. Closing the door and allowing yourself to heal from this loss and this breakup, doesn’t mean you can’t get back together down the road, it just means you are closing the chapter to this past season of your life. He isn’t choosing you right now, so YOU have to choose you. Choose to love yourself, choose to connect to yourself, choose to heal your heart, CHOOSE YOURSELF. He may be going through a hard time right now, but so are you! This is awful for you! Take your compassion for him and turn it towards yourself and take of yourself right now. He is doing some serious damage and handling this in a pretty childish way. You are seeing what kind of partner he is. You think that once he “finds himself” that all will be good? Nope. HOW he is handling this is part of who he is and he will show up this way AGAIN, when the stress if high enough. His coping mechanism is to disconnect, so when the stress is high enough, he will disconnect from you in some form or another, until he learns to face himself and handle his stress differently. I always tell people that you don’t choose your life partner or who to love according to the best parts of the relationship…you choose your partner according to the worst parts of who they are. Meaning…who a person is, in their worst, is what makes or breaks the relationship. It doesn’t matter how great you guys are together when things are good…it matters how great you are together in your worst moments. Just something to think about.
So again, it’s best to let him be and focus on yourself for right now. Put your energy into healing your heart. Close the door on this past chapter of your life so that you can be open to a new one. It could be with him or it could be with someone else. Who knows. Either way, to sit and wait around for your guy to figure out his life, means you are living YOUR life for HIM. He has A LOT of things to figure out and it might take a while or it might take a moment for things to click for him. Everyone is different. Men do tend to realize what they lost in a breakup months later, generally speaking. It just depends on the people involved. Regardless, he has made his decision RIGHT NOW and that is what you have to honor.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Jennifer,
Welcome to the forum! My heart hurts for you. To be married for so long and then to choose to get divorced, is a beyond difficult thing to do. It’s going to take a while to release him. The divorce is still pretty new, so it’s normal for you to keep wanting to fight and not let him go.
what am i to do when I put 150% ,my whole heart, (as hard as it was) total and complete TRUST in him. only to be broken This is unfortunately the reality of a lot of relationships. The divorce rate is so incredibly high and at least 1 person in the relationship tried to do everything they could to save it. I hear this kind of thing all of the time, so you are not alone. It’s quite a powerless feeling. We have this belief that if we do EVERYTHING we can, we can save or fix anything. That’s more true in other areas of our lives, except when it comes to relationships…especially love. When someone else is involved, it REQUIRES their desire to participate. It REQUIRES like-mindedness if things are going to work. That is what you are missing here. You guys are not likeminded about how live, how to respect each other, how to communicate and most of all, the desire to heal the relationship. Your relationship is broken and YOU may want to heal it, but he does not. When a person wants to TRULY heal a relationship, there are no “mixed” signals. It’s clear. They are willing to do anything to repair the broken parts that cause the separation…like you are. You are even here seeking advice and trying to gain more understanding and skills. He is not. Regardless of what he says, you also have to look at his ACTIONS. If his actions do not meet his words and if he is not consistent in what he says and wants, then he is not committed to anything.
Trying to repair this relationship is not about YOU saying or doing anything to heal what is broken, it’s about you BOTH agreeing what needs to be fixed and then creating AND acting upon a plan to repair it. This is NOT something you guys can do on your own, as you don’t have the skillset. You guys need to start to educate yourselves and understand what patterns cause disconnection and what patterns cause connection. You guys need to develop communication skills as well as how to handle your own stressful reactions to each other. All of these things need to come from a 3rd person…a therapist who specializes in couple’s counseling. If that’s too much to start, then start with reading articles and books for couples and go through the books TOGETHER and set up weekly times where you talk about what you learned etc. Maybe go on weekend retreats for couples. Here is a great resource: https://www.gottman.com/
The thing is, it’s broken because of BOTH of you. He needs to want to heal the relationship too or it isn’t going to work. What you can do in the meantime is work on yourself. Are you willing to work with a therapist or coach just for yourself? Going through a breakup like this is so incredibly intense and it would be a perfect time for you to get support and help as you navigate this. And strangely enough, many times, when the woman starts therapy and the man starts to see her shift and heal, they tend to become more open to the idea for themselves. I’ve seen it happen. When YOU shift, they tend to follow.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Emilie,
Wow! This guy seems like the best match for you, compared to any other guy you have dated since I have known you! He is open, he is attentive, he is emotionally available, he treats you like a queen, he has his own life and doesn’t try to stop you from yours, he keeps making plans with you…you guys are a couple. You may not have officially or technically said anything, but you guys are behaving like a couple. You may think you are casual and not putting pressure on, but I guarantee you, if he were to walk away right now, your heart would be broken. You are more invested in him than you think. He is being the kind of guy you have wanted to invest in for a long time! There is NOTHING you guys aren’t doing together, except just saying “let’s be boyfriend/girlfriend.” You guys will have that discussion when you both are ready though.
I’m curious about the Prozac still. Has he ever been on it? Is he actually seeing the Psychiatrist for emotional help as well or just check-ins to keep his prescription current? What happened with his fertility issues? Was that the cause of their breakup? Did his wife want a baby that much and he couldn’t provide one, so they got divorced? Is it the loss of her that triggered the depression or the divorce? I know it sounds like the same thing, but they are different. HOW does he talk about her and that whole situation? Does it activate his depression? Does he seem pretty grounded and thinking about the situation in a healthy way? Does he view her with a healthy mindset or does he still have a lot to work through about letting her go?
Heidi
So glad you had a wonderful time at home! It sounds really nourishing for you and I have no doubt, helps restore you so you can go back to work. We had our very first snow a few days ago. Light dusting that didn’t stick either. A new season is here!
It sounds like Travis might really do well at your place. I imagine you will set some very clear boundaries as to what you expect and what you need to have happen if he is going to live with you. I also imagine you will have consequences if he doesn’t comply. Have you talked with him about what you need from him? Your worries are legit, so set yourself up and set him up for success!
Heidi
HI Cynthia,
It’s great to hear from you! Thank you for sharing your updates with us!
One technique that worked amazing well for me in a particularly difficult breakup is talking into a recorder. I had sooooo many emotions and feelings and things I wanted to say to him, both in anger and in love. So I discovered that it helped for me to actually say all of it! I would just talk into my phone record app and say anything and everything I wanted to say, as if I were saying it to him. I wouldn’t filter either. I would be super messy, angry, tearful, loving…whatever came up. My intent was to just keep the energy flowing. It’s similar to journaling, but talking activates your voice and hearing in a way that journaling doesn’t. Journaling is an internal expression where speaking into a recorder is an external expression. Ever single day, several times a day I talked into it…mostly when I was in my car. It really strengthened my resolve and choice AND helped me continue to give a “voice” to my feelings, which helped with healing. Just an idea.
Also, another question I ask is this “What is it that I am wanting_________________to do for me, that I am not willing to do for myself.” Part of why we miss someone so much, is they fulfilled a need of ours. What needs were being met by him, that you can start to meet yourself? He left a hole. So SPECIFIC aspects of that hole that he helped fill, can you fill yourself? And how?
I haven’t completely let go. Part of me wants to allow for the possibility that he could call and we could try to move into deeper waters. What if you instead view that “letting go” means letting go of this design of relationship? You are letting go of poor communication. You are letting go of an emotionally unavailable man. You are letting go of feeling like you are on the outside of a man’s life. If he decides to reconnect, you can absolutely talk to him, but with the idea that you are not interested in participating in the same design of relationship that he offered before. It’s more about letting go of the dysfunctional parts of the relationship and deciding you have a new standard and anyone who wants to pursue a connection with you, needs to meet those standards. So it’s not necessarily letting go of “him” it’s letting go of the relationship design that didn’t work for you.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Nhu,
I’m so sorry for what you are going through. After 4 years of what felt like a wonderful relationship, it’s heartbreaking to lose him. It’s confusing with the reasons he is offering you. It’s confusing because it isn’t your experience and it’s confusing because HE is confused himself.
Let’s break this down a bit and see if we can help you come to a deeper understanding of what is probably happening for him.
From what you have shared, I would say the majority of why he is disconnecting from you has to do with HIM and not you. He is really confused right now. He is not even sure he wants to be a doctor and if he does, what specialty to head into. When a person’s “life purpose” or career path doesn’t feel clear to them, the rest of their life gets super foggy and becomes unstable. They will typically have an awareness of a feeling of uncertainty that is there all day, every day. If you understand that, generally speaking, a man’s self-esteem is built off of his ability to “produce” in this world, then when a man’s career/job is not in order, he is literally paralyzed in a relationship. Men typically become pretty unavailable when their job is not in order. Your guy is only 23 and you both had already discussed marriage. That is an INCREDIBLE amount of pressure for a guy who isn’t clear and solid about the direction he is heading in. For a man, getting married means providing for a family. Most men NEED for their careers to be in order before they get married. They need to KNOW they will be a good provider. I’m not surprised he disconnected from you. He is incredibly stressed and he is feeling quite powerless in his life. If you can imagine what it would feel like to be in med school and have a direction, but then the feeling inside of you is changing. Your whole future and everything you have invested in, is not coming into question and you can’t stop it from happening. And the worst part is, there is nothing to replace that old vision of your life. So you are stuck in this “no man’s land” where there is nothing solid to stand on. It’s INCREDIBLY uncomfortable. So he is doing what most people do…grasping at whatever he can to feel pleasure and laughter and grasping at whatever he can to feel control in his life…hence breaking up with you. Not being sure about his career and his future means he is not going to feel solid about who he is, which will leak into how he feels about you and a future with you. He found some valid enough reasons to breakup with you and he went with it. In essence, he is relieving the pressure on himself. Does this make sense?
Generally speaking, men are defined by their ability to produce. Women, on the other hand, are defined by their ability to connect. That’s why we are the relationship caretakers. That’s why it’s much easier for women to stay at home with the kids. It’s natural for us to be sensitive to the needs of our relationships. If a man were to be the stay at home dad, you will soon find him seeking projects to complete. He will naturally start to “produce” something. Women will be working all day and she will typically crave connecting with her man and kids when she gets home, where men typically need some time away from everyone when he gets home. My point is, the core of what he is defined by has been shaken so he cuts ties, whereas a woman in the same situation will typically become closer to her man. We just have a different point of view and we are different at what sources the core of who we are. So it’s hard for you to understand why he would reject the best part of his life.
He is being so cold with you because he DOES have so many confusing feelings about his whole life. He is so confused, but he NEEDS tohimself present being clear and strong with you. He is still so young and has a lot to figure out.
Lastly, there is a thread of truth in the reason he is using to break up. There are aspects of relationships that are best to be likeminded if a relationship is going to stay nourished and alive and sustainable. One of their areas is how we play together. It’s not enough to have things in common. You need to be able to play together in similar ways. Playing together is CRUCIAL for bonding. Play is bonding, healing and generates growth and depth. He is seeing that he likes to play differently than you do. And it’s NOT the same if you go along because of him. He knows and you know that you are only joining because of him and that changes the energy of the activity. It’s a whole different experience if you BOTH love the activity. So although you feel fed in many other ways by the relationship, it sounds like this particular area of your relationship with him is a bit off. It’s important enough for him, that it became the reason for disconnecting.
I’m also wondering if he did meet someone else or even had a one-night fling. It wouldn’t be unusual for a guy to disconnect like this because he is feeling so horrible about something he did and he doesn’t want to be found out, so he breaks up. If it ever gets brought up, he can easily say he hooked up with the other girl during the breakup. He wouldn’t tell his friends either, because they are mutual friends and something like that could easily be leaked back to you.
I know I’ve suggested a lot about what’s happening. Does anything resonate with you? Thoughts?
Heidi
What do you mean by we are “really not casual” ? I just meant the way you guys act WITH each other and how often you are hanging out…it’s more like boyfriend/girlfriend.
But I’m always like “no no that’s ok she doesn’t have to know”. Maybe he is testing me ? I don’t know lol I absolutely think he is testing you. He obviously thinks about it. I think that maybe when you guys are ready to go “public” so to speak, it means you are more serious.
I think I am excited about him to be honest, but I just don’t want to be too excited lol first because of my past relationship pattern and also because I know that he is still in his burnout phase, he is taking “prozac” and all…So not too sure how emotionally available he is right now. So I guess I’m a bit protecting myself of falling for him. I’m pretty sure I could. But no nothing is missing to be honest, he is really kind, attentive, calm, fun, protective, sex is great. So if something is missing, it’s just not knowing his current emotional status. Is he literally taking Prozac? I wasn’t sure because you put it in quotes. Do you know how long he has been on it? Do you know how he feels about taking it? Does he want to get off of it as soon as he can? Has he ever gone to a therapist? I imagine you probably have not talked about these things.
I agree that it’s good to stay cautious. I imagine he is fully capable and available for the best parts of interacting with you. The real test will be how he handles an argument or a confrontation with you. That will tell you his true capacity and availability.
Heidi
I don’t remember if I’ve ever suggested this to you, but an incredible film/documentary you should watch is called Embrace. It’s truly a beautiful story of SEVERAL women embracing their “imperfections.” One woman has to embrace that she grows a beard. She has tried EVERYTHING under the sun to not make that happen, but nothing worked, so she just grew the beard, wears lipstick and makeup and is her beautiful feminine self! I know each time I watch it, I am reminded that with all of my imperfections, I am beautiful. I understand your challenges of feeling overweight/hairy or whatever else it is you perceive about how you look to the rest of us. I fully believe that can shift, regardless of what your experiences have been thus far…and it can shift without you losing a single pound and still being hairy! People will start to view you differently when you start to view yourself differently. You carry some VERY intense feelings about who you are in this world, influenced by abuse. It’s a story that is changing every single day that you discover your greatness and your darkness and still see yourself as beautiful. Ester Perel (super famous psychologist) said “Self-esteem is the ability to see yourself as a flawed individual and still hold yourself in high regard.” I know you feel that about yourself on the inside. What about your outside?
Heidi
UUUGGGG! I had a long message as part 2 to my previous response and I lost it! I’m soooo bummed!
One thing I would like to suggest as an experiment is to start asking men what they think are the best qualities of women. Since you are much receptive of men and their opinions, maybe they can start to help you see women through their eyes. Just a thought.
I can’t remember where I’ve heard this or even why, but I’ve heard it several times. 4am is the spiritual hour. I used to wake up at 4am every day and there really is something different about it. I wake up at 5am now and it’s definitely different. 4am is tough, but when I would do my spiritual/healing work, I always felt it to be very potent at that time!
It IS tough to view people that activate your irritation, judgment, arrogance etc. as serving you in a way. Well done! You are incredibly strong to really embrace and explore your truth the way you do. I always teach that anything someone triggers in you, starts and ends with you…therefore there is NOTHING that someone can make you feel that isn’t already inside of you…they just happened to be the person to trigger it and shine a light on it so you can be connected to what you are carrying inside of you..both positive and negative. My mom told me this years ago: “You never know what a son of a bitch you are, until someone else is in the room.” So true! By ourselves, we are great, right? When someone else enters into our space, they are then able to reflect back to us different stories, feelings, emotions, insecurities, greatness etc. that lives within us. EVERY experience and exchange with someone else, even if it’s just for 30 seconds, is an opportunity to connect and know ourselves. You are doing an incredible job!
In all honesty, i don’t know what to think about men teaching and learning techniques of how to take advantage of women. Whatever those techniques are – they are only used on women who are desirable in some way. What is desirable is different to each set of eyes. What is THE MOST POWERFUL is a woman who KNOWS and FEELS her value
Oh goodness. He IS getting closer to you isn’t he? Of course, it’s getting more difficult!!!! Let’s talk about that a bit.
Even though he hasn’t really said anything specific, he sure is behaving like a boyfriend. What would you like to say? What exactly do you want to know? What exactly do you want from him?
I know this might be a hard question to answer, but what do you feel is happening inside of YOU that you are starting to feel like you are losing your patience so to speak? I know he is getting closer. You are actually starting to get what you want. I think it’s still a good idea to keeping waiting and let HIM come to you with this conversation and I understand you are wanting more understanding about what he wants. What if it just kept going the way it’s going? How would that make you feel? What if he doesn’t say anything for another 4 or 5 months and you guys just keep having wonderful cuddle/sex and he just doesn’t say anything. How does that make you feel?
Heidi
I get it. One thing to REALLY understand about men is that when their work situation is not in order, they really are TERRIBLE at relationships (generally speaking). If you understand that the core of a man is built around his ability to produce, you will better understand what makes them tick. If a man’s job is threatened, non-existent, challenged or not in order, EVERYTHING in their life will start to go downhill. It is so so important for their well being that their work life is going the way they desire, in order for everything else in their life to run more smoothly. It is a HUGE deal for many men to be able to pay for dates and if they can’t, they feel like a failure. So I imagine that you remind him of what he cannot do right now and I also imagine it makes him feel bad about himself. For us ladies, going to do the simple/free things is totally fine! We don’t care, but they do! For us, the core of our self esteem is built up connection. As long as we have people to connect with and those connections are going well, we are pretty happy. That’s why we are considered the relationship caretakers so to speak (again, generally speaking). While you are happy just connecting with him (that is our nature) he is NOT happy not being able to provide (goes against his nature). Hanging out with his friends is different. He can just buy a drink for himself and call it a day. He doesn’t have to worry about paying for you. Does this make sense?
I think it’s a good idea to ask for help again with something or invite him somewhere next time you see him. Maybe invite him to volunteer somewhere with you or a free movie in the park or a free dance lesson before the dancing at a club begins. You guys need to have some fun again and it needs to be a free event so it doesn’t stress him out. If he not responsive to the idea, he is either SUPER SUPER stressed or his feelings for you have changed.
Thoughts?
Heidi
So, i’ve heard from men, that a man is fully capable of taking advantage of a woman and he’ll see how much he can get with the least amount of effort. However, this is true of most people in most situations, so, i still don’t see how it’s unique to men. I think what makes this particular quality more true for men and probably what was being referred to, is sex. Men are driven by sex more than women (generally speaking) so men will say, do, be whatever they need to be so they can get laid. There is actually a whole movement out there, just for men, teaching men how to get exactly what they want. This book really popularized the movement: https://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738 There are a GAZILLION videos, blogs etc. teaching men specific techniques, basically preying on a woman’s vulnerabilities. It makes me sick to my stomach what they do. It’s so incredibly dishonoring to another human being. Don’t get me wrong….although this is a movement created by men, I don’t hold it against men in general. Women has their own movements and techniques as well. It just makes me very sad that a person would be at such a low level of consciousness and that they perpetuate it. And enough people live at that low level of consciousness that it’s actually a very large movement. It’s a human problem, not a male or female problem.
Thank you for explaining a little further. So let me see if I understand correctly. You guys were dating for a few months (after 2 years of being friends). When you got back from vacation, he kept saying he wanted to take you out, but he wasn’t picking a date and time, so that upset you and you responded by ignoring him. Eventually you apologized, but it hasn’t been the same since. You guys are only seeing other in person and there is no texting or contact otherwise. Is that correct?
Has he talked to you at all about what is stressing him out at work? It sounds like maybe you guys went back into the friend zone. You connect when you see each other, but that’s it. He may be less available because of work and not because you pulled away. It’s not uncommon for men to pull away when their work life is not going smoothly.
Have you texted him? Have you tried to set up a date yourself? You can say something like “Hey…I know you have been stressed at work. You need some fun to balance it out. Let me take you out on Saturday night. There’s a comedy show we can go to. It’ll be good for you to laugh!” Then when you take him out on a date, you can apologize again, but a little better this time. You can say something like, “Listen…I really want to apologize again for being distant. I got really insecure and it was really immature of me to behave like that towards you. I didn’t like that I did that. I know you said it was okay, but I just want you to know that I didn’t like how I handled it.”
How do you feel about this approach?Heidi
I’m still not clear. It sounds like he has expressed that he really misses you, you expressed the same and you kissed him. This is something you can build on, yes? Has he texted you since?
Guys don’t respond very well to passive aggressive behavior. Most guys just bail when their girls behaves in a way to communicate their feelings instead of just being straight up. When you apologized, what did you say? What did he say?
Heidi
