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My biggest fear comes from trusting men. This is pretty normal actually. People are typically pretty afraid of falling in love. There are a gazillion reasons why and are unique to each individual, but what we all have in common is that it’s scary to become intimate with a person…there just is no way around it. Love is a risk. There is ALWAYS the possibility of separation. There is the GUARANTEE of being hurt and it’s a hurt that can be soooo painful. Fear is just part of the process.
Now with that being said, what is MORE important in dealing with this fear, is turning your trust into yourself. First and foremost, building trust with yourself is what will allow you to move forward with clarity AND your fear. The fear doesn’t go away…it’s just going to be there. But when you have trust in yourself, it’s easier to make more clear decisions, without the fear deciding for you. Trust in yourself looks like this: “No matter what he does or says, I TRUST that I can take care of myself. I TRUST that I am resilient and strong and resourceful. I TRUST that I will be okay.” You have already been through hell and made it out the other side. You have learned how to do things better, right? You are here now, trying on a new experience – so what you went through brought you here, to this moment, doing something different. So if you made it through THAT…you can make it through anything! Trust in yourself, not men. Men will disappoint you, break your heart, abandon you, shock you, betray you….it’s just all part of being in a normal relationship. You will do the same to your man. So you get through those moments with having trust in yourself that no matter what he decides, whoever he is, you will be okay and figure it out for yourself. The trust in your relationship, is then built on your trust in yourself. The trust in relationship is never guaranteed. I’ve know couples for 30 years who break up because the person they knew for 30 years, just changed. That’s the risk of relationship. That’s the risk of love. There are no guarantees and that’s scary when it comes to giving someone access to your heart.
It sounds like he was sensing some of the deepness that you are feeling for him. How did it feel for him to talk to you about that?
Heidi
There is soooooo much to address, but I feel like your last paragraph is the most important at this moment, so I will speak to that.
First, I just want to thank you for sharing this with me. What you are feeling is sooooo deep and so personal and I feel quite honored that you are sharing this with me. Thank you.
Second, it is a very powerful question you are wrestling with and, in my opinion, one of the most important ones. There is no straight forward answer of course and I don’t even think that is what you are looking for. I just know how you feel and I’m so sorry you have to feel this very deep and uncomfortable feeling AND I know your exploration of this is so important for your healing and your relationship with God.
When I was in my 30s, I moved to Knoxville for a handful of years. It was the first time in my life that I felt anonymous as a woman. Up until that point, I always got a lot of attention with how I looked and carried myself. People were always looking at me everywhere I went. I was used to getting asked out a lot blah blah blah. You get the point. Then I went to Knoxville and EVERYTHING changed. No one looked at me, flirted with me, asked me out….nothing! nada! zilch! Suuuuuper long story short, I finally came to this question “how do I know I am a woman without a man letting me know I am a woman?” I did a TON of deep soul searching about what it mean to be a woman and FEEL like a woman. I know that’s a bit of a different question than you are asking, but it’s a question that leads to the same place you are looking for within yourself. I know how you are feeling and I know what you are searching for. My path to those answers and my own answers are going to be very different than yours, but I want to give you some ideas about how to play with this kind of feeling that you are experiencing.
If you feel like a fraud and not like a real woman, then what DO you feel like?
What do you hate about the feeling?
In those women that you identify and feel are “real” women, what EXACTLY are you seeing/feeling/sensing about them that makes them “real” women? It’s not about how they look, because there are plenty of women who can get all gussied up and they still don’t feel like a woman, right? So let’s ignore the outer presentation, because the truth is, we ALL respond more to how a person FEELS to us than how they look.Let’s just start with this and see where this conversation goes.
I want to change my pattern of “running” IF it is warranted in this situation. I know I can ride out the storm. I’m just trying to figure out if I should when the storm hits. I say when because if I know me there will come a time when it absolutely WILL hit me that I have to go. How about changing the pattern regardless?? You don’t know what this situation will bring into your life. You don’t know that there will be a time to run. What is this storm that you are expecting? And regardless of whether this storm shows up or not, it’s important that whatever decision you make, it’s coming from a place of clarity vs.fear. That’s the goal of how you want to do things differently. Instead of “running” which is sourced by fear, you can learn to stay present, stay clear and if you decide to disconnect, it’s from a place of wisdom and self-love.
I’m so sorry for what you have had to endure. When you are a survivor of abuse, there are so many layers to work through before you get to clarity and using your voice and most of all, building up trust with yourself.
You guys sound really wonderful together. I’m glad you are able to acknowledge that you are maybe more invested than you are giving credit. It could be wishful thinking or maybe not. The thing is, whether you are right or not doesn’t matter. What matters is there is alignment with words and actions – for both of you. So just keep an eye out for that. I know PLENTY of people who say and feel A LOT of things, but when it comes time to put action behind those feelings, the fear that comes up for them is MUCH bigger and it stops them from moving forward. So for now, just keep an eye out.
Heidi
My goodness! It IS confusing!!! So many mixed messages!!! He obviously is very confused himself. I’m guessing he has 1 part of himself that he feels when he is with you. That part is connective, attracted to you, a dreamer and obviously much more open. Then when he is away from you, he has another part that takes over, that stops him from allowing those feelings to grow. Good ol’ fear. I doubt he is aware of what lives in that fear or that it even feels like fear. That’s the sneaky thing about fear…it doesn’t always show up as fear. That’s what fascinating about this emotion…it can mask as anything. It masks as sabotage, numbness, disconnect, anger, etc. and so people are so rarely aware and conscious of how much fear is playing into their behaviors, feelings and choices. You need a guy who is able to know himself really well…has a higher emotional intelligence so that he can face whatever is coming up for him, because you are the type of woman who is going to trigger the shit out of a guy. You are strong and clear and have a higher level of emotional intelligence…you won’t accept any kind of bullshit/victim mentality. You need a guy who is interested and active in knowing his deeper self. This guy sounds like sooooooo much fun, but I’m starting to get kinda mad at him. I want him to face his shit so he doesn’t keep playing around with you like this! He is split and he needs to get into alignment with himself. You are way too valuable to be playing around with your heart the way he is. I don’t care how strong YOU are, you are still a woman who is a powerful connector and he needs to either step in or step out and stop playing this middle ground where he is getting the best of you while not having to commit.
Okay…that was my total rant! LOL. I guess I’m a bit protective of you….not that you need that from me at all.
I personally would talk to him straight up about it. He is sending a lot of mixed messages and although he might be confused, you can establish clarity. If he is activating your heart – meaning when he says stuff like “our kids” and when he is fishing for your feelings about him – what does that make you feel? Does it make you want to go further with him again? Or are you clear that you are not interested in that?
Heidi
Hi Malin!
We are glad you are here. You are one of the smart ones asking for some guidance and perspective! Well done!
I’m curious…what makes you think he is a womanizer?
It sounds like you guys have agreed to take it slow, but I’m wondering if there is an understanding about what that means EXACTLY. Does that mean you guys are open to dating other people? Having sex with other people? No expectations..so it’s more like a friends with benefits kind of thing?You wouldn’t be a “man-eater” if you were a woman who slept around. Plenty of men and woman sleep around and they do it with respect and integrity. I know you have been married for 20 years and trying to re-enter the dating world can be quite daunting and uncomfortable. How long have you been divorced? How long has he been divorced?
What’s important to understand is that men and women can approach “casual” or “slow” very differently. So what EXACTLY do you want from him? What is a comfortable design for you?
Heidi
Heidi
I wonder if that woman has a Borderline personality disorder. She would never know if she never has been to a therapist or psychiatrist. She somehow is able to still live her life, pay her bills and get a job, so it’s not something that has ever interrupted her life enough to do anything about it. She obviously needs help. I feel so sad for people like her. To have to feel that kind of chaos constantly running inside is awful. There’s very little, if any, peace for a soul like that. They have no control over what is happening to them until they get help.
drinking a glass daily to me is more than what’s needed. What if that glass of wine is no different than having a piece of chocolate after dinner or having a soda at dinner? Meaning…is it about addiction or a habit or a preference? For some people, that glass of wine is about the taste and the person is connected to the beauty of flavors that live in a glass of wine. I’m not saying this is Jeop of course…I’m speaking hypothetically. I have known people who love wine and they have a glass with dinner every night. They love the art of wine, they love the taste, they love the experience of it and are connected to it. Other people have a glass every night because it’s an addiction. So I think it’s more about looking at what their relationship is to the wine. I understand you don’t want it around at all because of your past experiences. I’m sure you haven’t really come across many people who drink wine every day who have a healthy relationship with it. Just something to consider. I’m just suggesting to maybe get curious about why someone has a glass of wine and look at their relationship with it.
You have sooooo much to do!!! My goodness. What an exciting time! I’m so curious where this adventure is going to take you. I hope this job will fill you up and nourish you and source you in a way that you haven’t been sourced in a very long time!!!
Heidi
The relationship built on love is full of freedom. It holds nothing over the head of the other person, no obligations, no nothing. They are free to show themselves to you as they will, and you are free to share yourself with them or not, to let them in or not. Whatever they give to you, is of their own free will. IF they are expecting something in return, it means they are in a transactional mindset, and such a relationship has to remain in the outskirts, in the marketplace, and you don’t want to take it home with you. Help me understand this theory a little better. This kind of reltionship you are describing, built on love, is not a romantic kind of love. It could maybe be a parent/child kind of love, BUT it’s pretty impossible to never expect anything in return from someone you love. Expectations are naturally there and should be there. Anyone I “love” I definitely have expectations as to how I am treated in return as the very basic level. Any romantic kind of love, there are many more expectations as to how I am treated and the kind of life we build together. So I’m not so sure what is wrong with have expectations – or standards, as I would put it. So explain a little more about what you mean. And have you seen/experienced the non-transactional kind of love before? I’m just not sure that can exist between humans, but maybe I am not understanding correctly.
Clean slate — Yes, & No. Yes, everyone deserves a clean slate. HOWEVER — i’m not going to turn off the knowledge i’ve gathered over the years – everyone has to pass the test of trustworthiness, regardless of race or gender. SO – No – i will not allow into my life, the kind of person who cannot be trusted. As for forgiveness, people change – so those who hurt me in the past, can also go through my ‘trustworthiness test’ and if they pass, they will remain in my life. Like my mother – who has been changing a lot. So you operate with a “guilty until proven innocent” mindset. I get there are “tests” so to speak for someone to enter into a relationship with you, on any level. This is what I would call “transactional” because you are requiring something from them FIRST before they get to have a connection with you. It’s you creating a standard as to how you are treated – so isn’t that a healthy thing? Do you think it’s possible to be a “innocent until proven guilty” kind of person? Just something to think about. Regardless…I’m just saying that if you have these instant walls that come up even with strangers who DON”T want to be your friend, but just want to have a short conversation…tells me how deep your walls run. It’s an instant trigger if someone asks if your Indian. It’s an instant trigger if someone is an Indian or Ethiopian or a woman. There are walls that are instant and designed to keep them out and these people haven’t done anything to you. You are still carrying around the memory/emotions/stories about your past that are being overlayed onto strangers. I understand completely how your you needed a reason to fight to become more healthy – hence your kids. I also understand that you don’t see the need to look at these walls, as you don’t feel that it actually interrupts anything you want in your life, therefore, what’s the point? My thoughts are…YOU are the motivation. It’s about facing those walls so you can connect deeper with your SELF. It’s about self-love and nothing more. The energy/stories/thoughts/feelings you carry in these instant walls are all things that contribute to depression, your finances, your relationships with your kids and JB…it’s influences EVERY ASPECT of your life. So if you want to deepen relationships with them, if you want to improve your finances, if you want to shift any other pattern in your life that is limiting you, then the energy in these walls needs to be worked with and acknowledged and valued and paid attention to. A wall, is meant to stop the flow. So these walls stop the flow in your life and you think it’s only affecting this “small” area of women, Indians and Ethiopians, but it’s actually affecting the flow of everything.
No – nothing happened between us – i was just starting to feel like i was burdening him with the stresses in my own life – and he said it’s ok, and he understands and doesn’t mind. You have a pretty strong program that you are a “burden.” I know that comes from your upbringing of course. I know that JB could tell you until he is blue in the face that you aren’t a burden and you still won’t believe him. I want to encourage you to maybe give him a little more credibility. Isn’t it HIS job to set his own limits as to how he interacts with you? By pulling back and not sharing your life with him, you are basically saying “I don’t trust you. I don’t believe you.” And you don’t believe him because you have such a strong program running in your system that you are “burden” so you do everything to NOT be that, according to your perspective. It’s not really fair is it? I personally would start to get quite frustrated if a friend of mine was controlling the relationship because they were not believing what I was saying, because they have their own insecurities that they are overlaying onto MY feelings. Just something to think about.
I understand the police world. It’s an incredibly tough job. They go through sooooooo much on many, many levels. There are so many unsettling and sad stories in that profession and so many beautiful, heartwarming stories too. We are lucky to have a man such as JB to hold up the light side of this profession.
Heidi
Heidi
He sounds delightful! I love that you are feeling inspired to do/be a better version of yourself. It feels good to do that and connect in with someone else on that journey.
I just want to say to be careful. What he is making you feel is already on the deep/soulful side…which means you are not taking this as casual as you both have agreed to do. Your heart is more invested than you think – and why wouldn’t it be when you get to feel this safety and inspiration from him? The truth is though…how you feel isn’t casual and although you don’t want more from him right now, it IS going to happen. Most likely, you won’t know that you want more until he does something that doesn’t make you feel good….like not be as available, or going out on other dates, or not listening to a need you have. Who knows. Either way, it’s important for you to be VERY honest with yourself. The trap that most women fall into, especially the ones struggling to have a voice, is they are enjoying the connection so much, that they don’t speak up when their needs are not being met, because the truth is…their needs most likely will end the connection because they are on a different page than the guy. So they stay silent and choose the connection over themselves – and that’s where it just gets really damaging and hurtful. You will be VERY tempted to just fall back into your pattern of not saying anything, just so you can keep the connection going. OR….this could be a great opportunity for you to start to shift that pattern and do something different. Obviously, it’s not the time for that, as things are going really smooth right now, but I guarantee things WILL shift at some point and it will be your opportunity to use that beautiful, powerful voice that lives within you.
Thoughts?
Thank you for sharing more details. It’s very helpful!
I just really believe there’s this underlying fear that he is going to create the same household he grew up in and he is trying to control everything in his power to make sure he doesn’t end up divorced with kids that in the end would grow up in a broken home like he was. Here’s the thing Cheyenne. While your very educated guess could be spot on, you just don’t really know because it doesn’t sound like he is open to having these kinds of conversations about his fears. That’s the REAL issue here….he is not a communicator so you end up spending your time trying to figure him out, analyzing him and coming to places like this forum searching for answers. All this effort you are putting in is beautiful and amazing, but it needs to be effort that HE is putting in for himself, not you. You cannot fix him or change him. So your job is simple….accept him for exactly who he is RIGHT NOW. If he were to stay the same where he doesn’t talk about things and he isn’t interested in working with his walls, is this something you can accept about him? He isn’t very emotionally available. Is that something you can imagine dealing with for another 10 years? If yes, then I want to invite you to look inside yourself and explore your own walls to intimacy. What you are noticing within in, lives within you as well or you would not have invited him into your life as a partner. What do you notice about these walls you have to intimacy?
It sounds like he is hitting his “upper limit.” It’s basically a wall that we all have as to how happy we will allow ourselves to be. That wall and how strong it is, is related to how much baggage/low self-esteem we are carrying. So if someone has some really strong stories around love being dangerous let’s say, when that person starts to get close to feeling love, they will hit their upper limit – the wall – and they will start to sabotage it because the story that love is dangerous is MUCH stronger than the story that they could be happy with love. All of this happens on a subconscious level of course. People are typically not aware of this and, like your boyfriend, will point to the relationship, instead of looking at their own patterns – because that is the only thing that makes sense. The upper limit is how happy he will allow himself to be. If he doesn’t trust “happy” then he will always ruin it. Pushing against the upper limit is extremely uncomfortable. Changing the upper limit is A LOT of work and takes some serious self-reflection and healing. My upper limit used to be soooo low. I would sabotage so fast! Now…because I have worked really hard on releasing my baggage, my upper limit is sooooo much higher and I get to feel so much happier in my life. But it took a lot of work with my coach, reading a lot of books, attending workshops, trying different types of healing modalities….it’s a forever kind of journey really and it doesn’t sound like he is the kind of guy who is interested in looking at himself. He basically is showing you that he has a VERY strong relationship with his fear and he will choose his fear over you. That’s not an uncommon thing actually. But it is reflective of what your life would be like with him. ANYTIME the fear is big enough, he will run away into himself and become unavailable to you and you will be left dealing with whatever situation has come up. He wouldn’t be a very good partner to go through the messiness of life.
With all of that being said, I know you are interested in trying to stay connected with him. I totally get it! Just know what you are walking into. Anytime you are fighting more for him than he is fighting for himself, you are going to run into a lot of challenge and heartache down the road. But for now, what you CAN do, first and foremost, is look into yourself and put the attention on you. What is inside of you that is connecting with an emotionally unavailable man? I know there is a strong connection, but it’s limited. Sex and intimacy is always a great barometer as to the health of the relationship and intimacy and it sounds like it’s never really evolved into something deep and connective and vulnerable and passionate and vibrant and alive. So what is in you that is choosing this kind of experience?
Now looking at him, the best thing you can do is continue to provide a space for him to talk with you. Asking questions like “What can I do better as a partner for you? What kinds of things do I do, that you want me to continue?” Also, how often are you telling him things that you like about him? The idea is to focus on what IS working more frequently. It could maybe help him put his attention on those things more often, which could possibly shift his view of the relationship. BUT…it doesn’t sound like you even understand WHY he is feeling how he does. You are guessing. So what if you took him out on a date, get all dressed up, go somewhere beautiful and peaceful and have a conversation with him. Set the tone of curiosity. Let him know that you understand he is having reservations. You are not interested in changing his mind, but instead, you are just curious about how he is feeling. You would like to understand yourself and how he is viewing you and you would like to understand how you can become a better partner for him, IF what he needs is something that aligns with you.
The bottom line here is, there is not much you can do for your relationship growth if you have a guy who isn’t willing to communicate. That’s a pretty solid deal-breaker for growth. You gotta have 2 people who can talk authentically and respectfully with each other if there is going to be growth.
Here is super short article that maybe help a bit. Your guys sounds like he is the “stonewalling” type. Also look at what your own tendencies are. https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Cheyenne,
Welcome! Thank you for coming here and asking your question. I just have a few more questions.
1. I’m not clear….he has done this before? Or this is the first time he is saying this?
2. Do you know the specifics about what he is feeling? Meaning, are there specific behaviors or personality traits he is just not sure about? Is he able to be clear about what he is unsure about?
3. How would YOU say the relationship has been for the past few years? Do you feel it’s open, vibrant and nourishing and you love the relationship you guys have created together? Or would you say it’s been a lot of struggle? Or somewhere in between?
4. How is the communication between you guys?
5. How is your sexual/intimate relationship?It will help to have more detail so we have a bigger picture about what’s happening.
Heidi
Oh I love how you said that! I get it. It sounds like you are really ready. That means you will release MUCH FASTER!
What makes this guy a little different so far?
Heidi
i see my judgements of them as a wall to keep them away, because i’m a very forgiving person, and i’m also a fool. Man I get this! We ALL are able to be fooled and that is so hard to accept about our humanity. I love that you are forgiving as well. Judgement doesn’t need to exist to keep a wall up. There is actually no need to even protect yourself anymore. Those people who treated you so poorly and were judgmental towards you, are no longer in your life. What’s the wall for? It’s over. Also, a wall only needs to come up when you need to set a boundary – a drop of anger in self love = assertion. That is the only wall you need to have come up and only when it’s needed. This judgment you think is protecting you, you are living with 24/7 and you don’t need to. You can release this judgment and criticism and step into forgiveness and let the past go and live more in the present moment. Protecting yourself IS important but only when needed. So it’s like you have a wall that is available to you WHEN YOU NEED IT, and it’s sourced by self love – not judgment. The rest of the time, you live openly. By that, I mean you see and feel each person as they are without judgments/criticisms and without walls. Each person has a clean slate with you, regardless of race or gender. Doesn’t each person deserve to be seen that way? So there truly is no need for you to hold onto your judgments that are guaranteed to influence how you see people in general. It’s the mud in your water and you cannot separate that out until you truly forgive those in your past.
i was starting to run to him with all of my burdens, and i don’t think that’s a good idea How come? Could you sense that he was getting uncomfortable with it? Did something happen? Do you actually share your burdens with your other friends? I didn’t know you had other friends. You have said several times you only care about your kids and JB and those are the only relationships you are willing to protect and invest in. Maybe they are your innermost circle and you other friends on your outer circles that you are not really invested in?
I remembered the state i was in about 12 yrs ago – it’s far worse than what i wrote in my 2 minute version. I was actually afraid i was becoming catatonic. Whoa! That is sooooo intense. Do you remember what caused you to go into that state? Did the medicine she prescribed, eventually help you? That’s sooooo interesting. You seriously could write a memoir. You have such a wonderful and powerful way of describing things and you have such an incredible story. I just went through a free webinar put on by Hay House about writing a book. It was fabulous! I learned A LOT!!! It’s 4 days of 1 hour each and I have a feeling it might inspire you…maybe. Idk. The replays expire on Sunday, so make sure to listen by then if you want. https://www.discover.hayhouse.com/writerscommunity-day-4-replay/
Heidi
Oh wow! That woman sounds pretty awful! She sounds narcissistic. Yuk! I’m so glad you only have 2 more weeks. Keep asking “Okay God, let me see her through your eyes of truth.” Say that a million times a day if you have to. It might help to remember she is HIS creation and there is beauty and perfection in her design….and maybe…just maybe…you might be able to see a little bit of that before you leave.
So a glass of wine at dinner is too much alcohol in your mind? Am I understanding that correctly? Does that make you feel like he might be an alcoholic or something? I love that he shared with you and you got a chance to share with him as well. It sounds like you guys are developing a really nice friendship. I also love that you got a rower!!! Well done! I LOVE rowing! One of my clients has a row machine that is like the Peleton where there are classes on a screen and a coach rowing along with you. It’s so fun!
You sure have a lot to do over the next 2 weeks!
Heidi
I think it would be so great if Trav could join you over there! It may be just what he needs to kickstart his life. Maybe not…who knows, but either way, it’s a rare opportunity. I hope it works out!
I totally get the house thing. Maybe just put a bunch of stuff in storage? It may be worth the income you could get from the airbnb. Something I imagine you have already thought of though.
Do you know where you are going to live over there? I know you had mentioned one place you liked, but if I remember correctly, you are going to wait until you get there…yes? But maybe you know for sure what town you will live in?
What was nice about the chat with Jeop?
Heidi
