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Hi Jessica! Thank you for continuing to share your thoughts! It helps me every time know how to better offer my guidance.
My biggest question would be, what does a “healed” or “adult energy” version of myself look like to you? What healed looks like for anyone, is alignment with the highest levels of truth. When we have hurt that we are carrying from our past, that hurt exists ONLY because we placed a negative story around that hurt. That hurt lives in a sea of lies that we are keeping alive every time we run that story about whatever happened. What healing looks like, is being able to look back at whatever happened and have zero negative feelings about it. All that is left is gratitude for the experience and all it taught us. Let’s use your past as an example. You were bullied combined with having parents that also created a harmful environment for you. You literally had nowhere safe to go, so you spent your childhood in an elevated, survival type of energy. You created a lot of stories around those events….I don’t know exactly what those stories are, but I do know that those stories would include thoughts something like “I’m not safe” “Yelling is bad” “I need to be perfect so I don’t upset anyone” – and those thoughts are fueled by lies and here is how this happens:
When trauma happens or a strong enough event occurs that it imprints on our system, it gets stored in “state specific” form. This means that the details of the event, the smells, the sounds, the tone of the people, and your thoughts (at the age it happened) gets stored in your system. The biggest challenge about this, is when something happens as a 10 year old, the thoughts about that event get stored with a 10 year old mentality. 10 year olds obviously DO NOT have the ability to truly understand what is happening. Our brains do not fully develop abstract thinking until our early 20s, and that’s why a lot of children that were abused or had traumatic events, may have gone to therapy as a child, but they will need to go back later, as a full grown adult, to be able to process the deeper, more abstract layers of those events, now that their brain is fully developed. So when stories are stored as a 3 year old, a 10 year old, a 12 year old etc., those stories are full of lies….for example, a 10 year old would BELIEVE “my mom left because I wasn’t a good boy like she wanted me to be.” That is the level of a 10 year old brain. But just because someone grows up and their brain develops, it doesn’t mean those thoughts that imprinted at that age, grow up. Those thoughts, stories, lies STAY as a 10 year old.
THIS is where triggers come from. Someone says or does something and it has a familiar enough flavor for it to activate that 10 year old thinking “they will leave me if I’m not perfect.” These thoughts are what I call “targets” which are the lies that FEEL true. Someone leaving has nothing to do with that 10 year old being perfect or not, right? But the 10 year old doesn’t FEEL that. These “targets” are messages from the subconscious, letting us know what REALLY lives deep inside of us. OVER 80% of what we think and feel comes from the subconscious. So you, for example, have the story that the quiet guys are more safe and that is influencing who you are initially attracted to. If you healed all the stories and negative imprint of your past, that story would not exist. What would exist instead is the story that any guy can be a good match and you could feel safe with a popular, loud, or magnetic guy or a shy quiet one. It wouldn’t matter. What would matter instead are the qualities of the person. The emotionally unavailable guy is your pattern, so that is your wounding – the energy of your young self who is still carrying a lot of hurt and pain from your past and who is choosing the guys who are unavailable because you have identified them as “safe” because they are NOT how your parents behaved. Do you see how your past experiences shaped this belief that the quiet guys are more safe?
So healed means, alignment with the truth. The truth being “I am lovable.” “I am safe.” “I am resilient and can handle anything that shows up.” Someone who is more healed, has a lower pain tolerance. When things get difficult (in an unhealthy, toxic way), they don’t participate or engage. The women who are constantly going after the unavailable men, have a higher pain tolerance, because they are carrying around the BIG wound “I’m not lovable” so they keep trying to master that by picking a guy who is unavailable and hoping to win him over, which will FINALLY make them feel “I am lovable” (which of course never sustains – once they finally get that guy and finally get that attention, the relationship will end at some point because it’s unhealthy to begin with and they will just go find another guy to try and win over).
I’ve always been like this. I don’t feel a predisposition to “fix” this guy and know that I’m going to have to accept him for who he is and where he’s at, even if he struggles, that he needs to challenge himself on his own, and that’s my decision on whether I can accept where he is right now or if he’s too much of a project for me. Just because “you’ve always been like this” and you don’t “feel” like you want to fix, doesn’t mean it’s true. Feelings are NOT the facts. Instead of looking at how you “feel,” look at your patterns. Look at your actions. Look at what is driving you.
Your past hurts influence how you feel and your perspectives, and this is why letting our feelings be the sole guiding light in our decision is very dangerous. They absolutely are PART of the decision making process, but definitely do NOT belong in the driver’s seat.
You have never known yourself to be any other way, because you don’t know who you are without the wounded part of you. I can’t tell you how many times I cleared something from my past and how it INSTANTLY shifted how I viewed something or felt something. The wounded energy we carry is so much a part of us, that we don’t even know what’s possible without it until we face it and clear it….and then all of a sudden we feel the truth of the situation. I used to ONLY date those unavailable me and now…no way. The thought exhausts me. Another example is I had a very popular and well known life coach have a VERY strong reaction to something I said that challenged how she approached something. I triggered her into her abusive, critical, and narcissistic self. She completely tore me to pieces with her words. My past self would have crumbled. My heart would have broken, I would have done everything I could to appease her, it would have activated my need to have everyone like me – her reaction would have triggered me into my little girl energy still carrying the pain…but instead…it felt like a pin prick level of pain. I was soooo grounded in the truth that no matter what she thought of me, I KNEW I was lovable. I KNEW I was a good person, even though she didn’t think so. I did not give HER story about me, authority. I stayed empowered, clear, and connected to my value, even when she was having her reaction. I 100% knew that her reaction to me had to do with uncleared stuff from her past, because she was behaving like a 12 year old. She was not an adult, she was in her child. That’s not for ME to fix or deal with or take ownership of. So because I had been working a lot at that time on clearing my need to be liked, I was able to navigate her reaction to me with a much higher level of consciousness and connection to the truth of the situation.
It absolutely IS your decision. I’m just pointing out that he is a bigger project. Relationships are difficult enough as it is…but adding on top of that a guy who is socially challenged in the way he is…it just makes being in relationship with him that much harder. Why choose this hard? Have you ever been in an easy relationship?
I feel like I’m being asked to change a core part of my personality without knowing what that change looks like I’m not sure if I answered this or explained this, so let me know if you still me more understanding.
I also feel like the worst-case scenarios about his ability to feel joy and step out of his shell a little are VERY exaggerated. This could absolutely be true! All I have to go by is what you say and my instincts about what you are saying. We don’t have the ability to have the back and forth, which allows questions and deeper understanding. This platform is very limiting compared to what could happen in person. I appreciate you clarifying and continuing to explain, as it helps me see where I am missing the target.
By having someone in my circle set me up the way people met before the internet, I would not have to navigate a difficult dating pool, and continue on with a clear conscience and clear intentions of focusing on one person at at time. I understand your aversion to online dating. It’s a very intense process and one I don’t recommend for most people. Why not expand your friend group? There are all kinds of meetup type of groups for common interests….like hiking, dog play dates, happy hour etc. There are platforms where people host events like this so everyone with common interests can meet each other. If something romantic comes out of it, then great! If not, that’s okay too! The challenge with your friend group is if something doesn’t work out with whomever they set you up with, there is a possibility that it will change the relationship you have with your friend/s who set you up in the first place. Just something to consider. Either way, consider expanding your social circle!
I feel like I’m being encouraged to just walk out on someone who’s already demonstrated an ability and willingness to provide some of my most critical needs – common interests, similar living preferences, drive and initiative with both his music and his career/working life, my preferred amount of personal space, and conscientiousness and emotional safety – just because he’s inexperienced and clueless about how to start a relationship and has some social and emotional struggles. He definitely is checking a lot of critical boxes. Where I am coming from is more reverse engineering. We do know MOST of what makes a relationship healthy and sustainable. Of course there are always variables that cannot be measured, but there are foundational components that are needed. One of those components is how people treat each other in their very worst moments….the worst hurt, the worst anger, the worst upset..feelings of betrayal and disappointment, the worst stress etc. How a couple navigates these moments will make or break their success. It’s the WORST of a person that needs to hold the most value when we are looking to offer our hearts to someone. The reality is, love, as it grows and deepens, will absolutely shine a light and trigger the darkest corners that carry the most intense pain within us. It’s inevitable. So…paying attention to how someone handles stress is CRUCIAL. It’s during those super stressful times where trust is built up or shattered. And if it’s shattered, the relationship breaks. Usually not right away, but over time the relationship will fail because there is a crack in the foundation. I’m encouraging you to give more weight and credence to his stress response. Although you guys have worked through some smaller things more seemlessly and with a lot of respect, none of it was in person. Who you saw IN PERSON and how he responded to stress IN THE MOMENT was that he pulled away. That’s called stonewalling. It’s where the person’s system goes into “overdrive” and they have to retreat and they become unavailable. This is a coping mechanism that absolutely breaks connection over time. This will ALWAYS be his coping mechanism. He will ALWAYS want to run away and hide. Our coping mechanisms never change as our response to stress is woven into our personalities. I am exactly like him…I retreat. Today, that urge is absolutely still there, but I have cleared enough of the pain from my past, that my adult self is able to handle situations differently. I know how to better manage that response to retreat…but only because I have done a lot of healing work and cleared a TON of those child stories that imprinted on my system. I know you have had some beautiful and amazing experiences with him and I love that. I’m just saying that from what you have shared, he is not set up to have a successful, deep, intimate love that I know you want. He doesn’t have the ability to offer that…at least not with who he is today. Can he change? Absolutely. He would need to get some help and it would take many years…but maybe you are up for that! Maybe what he offers is good enough for you. That’s something only you will know. From an outside perspective, the foundation for success is not present, so the odds of it being what you want long term, are not high. AND ….I could be totally wrong!
However, the cumulative failure over the years has begun to weigh on me, it’s affecting how I carry myself in social situations, and a lot of the self-work I’ve done through reading books and going to therapy has started to suffer because of the cumulative effects of all this failure. This is a perfect example of a story you are carrying in your system that is full of wounded energy. You call your experiences “failures.” A clear, non wounded perspective would call them “learning experiences.” You call them failures just because the end result was a breakup. I call them experiences that brought you a TON of learning….learning how to communicate, learning about your needs, learning about what works and doesn’t work, learning about love, learning about your limitations, learning how to navigate their limitations…I could make a mile long list of the gifts that “failed” relationships bring into our lives….so are they really “failures” when so many good things came out of them?
You are saying it’s “cumulative.” It’s only cumulative because you are not completely clearing the negative energy out of each situation, so it’s now exhausting you…as it should. More gunk keeps getting piled on top of you and you are having to carry that everywhere you go. It doesn’t have to be cumulative. The goal is to enter into each new experience with a clean slate. If you cleared all the gunk after each experience, there is no buildup of anything. So the fact that you are feeling exhausted, THAT is the language of the subconscious. THAT is a symptom of the level of baggage you are carrying around. THAT is the “target” that if you went down that rabbit hole, I guarantee you would find a boatload of stories, pain, anger etc. from when you were younger. So…my mindset is that when I feel things like what you are feeling, I say “thank you for letting me know. Thank you for showing me where I am stuck and clogged up. Now I know and now I can open this up and use this opportunity to clear the lies that are keeping me stuck.” So I use my techniques, I work with my coach, I peel back the layers to find out what is sourcing this feeling….and it’s never the current situation, it’s always something from the past….the current situation just presses the button that activates the network of stories we are holding from our past.
I have said sooooooo much here and it’s really just the surface level. It’s hard to try and explain all of this by typing it out. I usually teach this stuff in webinars with diagrams and I am able to show ALL the pieces at once. I’m hoping that at the very least, what I have explained will help you understand your situation on a deeper level.
In the end Jessica, you have 2 choices: 1. keep trying to work things out with this guy. This path will have very specific lessons for you 2. Decide this kind of hard is not what you want and let it go. This path will also have a lot of lessons for you. Both paths can be hard and both paths will carry many gifts for you. So you just have to decide which kind of hard you want to be in relationship with.
Heidi
Hi Bonnie,
Welcome back! Wow….it’s been 4 years! That’s a long time!
So it sounds like you both have created a connection that is pleasant and stable and predictable. I’m glad you have taken some time to get to know yourself! After 32 years of marriage, there is a whole new side of yourself to get to know. Well done for taking that time for yourself!
So I’m curious. Have you liked this guy the whole time? Tell me why you are interested in dating him. Do you imagine it could turn into something more serious?
This is a bit of a tough one because if it doesn’t work out, feeling safe to be at home without you 2 running into each other will be difficult. You never know how endings will go. Dating is a big risk in and of itself, but you 2 have the added layer of living in the same complex, which makes this whole thing EXTREMELY risky. I’m wondering if he just doesn’t want to risk it.
Has there been any flirting at all? Do you get any sense that he might be interested? Who initiates the texting / conversations more? Or is it pretty equal?
I also want to suggest to just start dating and getting your feet wet again. Have you been on any dates the past 4 years?
Heidi
Hi Misti,
I am soooooo so sorry for what you are going through. It’s awful to have not only lost your son, but now you are losing your husband.
Did either of you get some help to process the loss? Group support? A therapist? Anything of that nature? He obviously is acting out and doesn’t know how he feels, because he has sooooo much pain he is carrying inside and not working through, that he is seeking pleasure anywhere he can find it…and he is not even aware he is doing it. He needs some help. His behaviors are impulsive, which is indicative of someone trying to escape how they are feeling…and again…a lot of people are not even consciously aware they are doing that. They are just letting their feelings guide them and their feelings are strong and very real, but they have no clue that their feelings are actually not real – they are a result of wanting to escape from something big they are carrying that they have buried.
What to do? This is a tough one Misti. If he is not willing to get help, there is not much you can do. He is being destructive (which is a common response to the loss of loved ones). If he isn’t willing to face the pain of the losses he is carrying, he will only continue to sabotage any happiness in his life…that’s just how it works. So you can either continue to witness his sabotage and be part of it, or you can set some clear boundaries with him. What those boundaries are will be up to you and what you are willing to deal with.
The first thing I would do is to keep your kids out of this. They are NOT old enough to understand the dynamics about what is happening. They of course can have their feelings about it with each of you individually, but BOTH of you need to agree that they can express how they feel, but it’s still an adult issue between the both of you to figure out and navigate. They really only need to get the cliff notes version of what is going on and you BOTH need to agree to protect them from the darker details. Kids do not even fully develop their ability for abstract thinking until their early 20s, so anything abstract – like what is happening in your family right now – they WILL NOT be able to fully understand or process. What they need to see and what you both need to role model is that it’s messy AND you will work together to find common ground. What they need to be role modeled is how to respect each other in this mess, even in the worst pain. Respect means no name calling, no criticism, no cutting each other down, continuing to communicate, honoring that you each have a story and perspective that feels VERY real, even though they are different. That will show your kids what it looks like to navigate messiness in a healthy way. From what you are saying, it sounds like your kids are getting in the middle of this and that is not a place kids need to be. And sometimes, when parents work together FOR THE KIDS and find common ground when dealing with the kids, that common goal and that collaboration FOR THE KIDS can actually help bring healing. Sometimes not, but at the very least, it keeps things in check for the whole family.
Would YOU consider getting help and work with a professional? There are soooo many feelings here and having a guide can help things go so much better!
Heidi
Thank you for explaining all of this! I helps me understand your perspective more.
because I would always feel that these types of men would appreciate me more I understand why you would believe this. I know it’s only been half true, but what I will say is there is no relevance to this belief. A person’s ability to appreciate has nothing to do with whether they are attractive, are an underdog, socially awkward, popular, nerdy etc. It has to do with how connected they are to themselves and how much they have cleared their baggage from the past.
I myself am a Highly Sensitive Person and need someone on my level Explain what this means. How are you sensitive and what “level” are you talking about?
a lot of times I find that when a guy pursues me very aggressively, I get chased into a corner and shut down because I have someone in front of me showering me with affection when I don’t know them and have had no time to develop feelings for them This is a pretty normal response to what is called “love bombing.” Those type of guys are absolutely unhealthy and draining and out of balance. However, there is no need to “shut down.” It’s so important that you learn how to stay empowered no matter who is in front of you. Staying empowered means that you recognize that pattern, know it’s not something you want to engage with and you communicate that you are not interested and go about your way. Shutting down is a “victim” response and your coping mechanism, so recognizing that gets triggered in you means you are living in the past and not in the present and your child self is taking over. This is exactly why I LOVE dating…it gives us soooooo many different opportunities to learn about ourselves, our triggers, our limitations, our stories etc. which then gives us an opportunity to heal what still lives within us from the past.
And I won’t lie, it feels very rewarding to earn the love and trust of a more guarded, sensitive man – I feel more deeply loved and appreciated by someone who feels as deeply and deliberately as I do. You are pairing “guarded and sensitive” with someone who feels as “deeply and deliberately” as you do. This also is NOT a truth. Someone sensitive and guarded also means they could be deeply wounded. They may feel things more deeply, but that’s not necessarily a good thing if they don’t know how to handle those feelings in a healthy, clear way.
And, as the nature of the beast seems to have it, the quieter, more sensitive, and even awkward men that I’m drawn to are almost always fighting something. This is also another story you have created. The truth is, EVERYONE is fighting something. I have yet to meet a person who isn’t dealing with something in their life.
The thing is Jessica, everyone has problems, a dark side, limitations, greatness, kindness, love and appreciation within them. I want to invite you to expand your viewpoint. You say this: seeing too many other women chasing after a guy, no matter how much or how little attention he’s giving them back, makes me like the guy even less but what you are not realizing is that you are attracted to the same type of guy (emotionally unavailable) just with a different flavor to him. The truth is, you are attracted to the type of guys that you are, because you have chosen to believe that they are the safest because of your past experiences of being bullied. You still carry a lot of wounding energy around those experiences and that wounded, little girl energy is who is picking these guys, NOT your adult energy. You have a heart for the “awkward” or the ones on the outside of the circle, because in a way, you are wanting to give to them, what you never received yourself….that love and acceptance for exactly who you are.
If you healed from your past, the type of guy you would be attracted to would be completely different. I have done A LOT of healing from my past and I can tell you that there are PLENTY of guys out there that are higher functioning, full of gratitude, love, and kindness and are NOT on the outside, socially awkward, dealing with depression, or any of those thing you are qualifying as being “safe.” AND, these higher functioning guys have their own demons they deal with too.
We all have this invisible backpack that we are carrying around called our past, that is full of fear, stories, anger, hurt etc – EVERYONE – whether a recluse or the most popular person in your circle. What makes a healthy and sustainable connection are 2 people that are willing to work on what lives in their backpack – 2 people that communicate in respectful ways – 2 people that grow and learn about themselves and each other – 2 people that know how to face their fears in a healthy way. So instead of looking for those guys that are “on the outside” just look for a guy that you connect with. He could be popular, he could be a complete nerd but social, he could be more quiet and introverted….who knows! But give EVERY guy a chance to show you who he is and date from a place of looking for someone who is higher functioning, not a project that you can help and fix so you can feel more valuable. Does this make sense?
and definitely doesn’t have any idea how much women (especially) read into someone’s social media behavior. Yes! very true AND this drives me nuts that women do this. They create entire stories around words without ever talking to the guy about it and trying to understand whether or not the story they created has any validity to it. I very rarely give social media any credence. It’s the face to face that needs to be paid attention to with social media having as much value as a grain of sand.
Heidi
It sounds like you are quite grounded about the situation. You have a lot of experience with depressed guys? Tell me more about this. How? Why?
I would believe him and let him walk because that shows that he doesn’t trust me and isn’t listening to how I really feel. I’m willing to do a lot for him, but he needs to trust me. Let’s talk about this a bit, because there is a bit of mindset tweak that needs to be recognized. You say he “needs to trust you” but their reality is, he cannot and never will trust you until he is able to trust himself first. Primary trust (self-trust) needs to exist first and foremost before being able to have secondary trust (the trust with another). So you are asking and needing and wanting him to trust you when he doesn’t even trust himself. That will just never work. It’s not realistic nor attainable. Our relationship with ourself will ALWAYS determine the level and type of connection we have with others.
If he’s not willing to take risks and try his best, even if he struggles a bit, then that means that he doesn’t trust that I accept him for who he is and that he’s attempting to talk over me. He needs to manage whatever negative narrative he has and trust me. This is another statement saying if he doesn’t do…”then he doesn’t trust me and he needs to trust me.” It has this flavor of “I’m not good enough for him to trust me.” I know you know better than this. But knowing how the psyche works, I’m going to guess not being trusted or believed or being questioned – something within that flavor – is an issue you have faced quite a bit in the past and it seems like it’s a bit of a trigger for you somehow. Yes? No? Being around or with depressed people is exhausting and very challenging. It activates so much powerlessness because no matter what you say or do, the depressed person’s stories and feelings are what is true for them…so your words, your experience, your perspective doesn’t matter. Depressed people don’t ever “trust” others.
Since you have a lot of experience with depressed guys, I’m wondering what’s happening for you that you want to engage in this type of relationship again. It’s very clear that he has A LOT to deal with. Living life on a daily basis is challenge enough for him. He is facing fears on a daily basis and now you want to ask him to do it even more…and not just any fears, his GREATEST fears. He has so much low self-esteem that no matter what you say or do, he is fragile from the core. He needs A LOT of help and the kind of social skills he needs to even be able to handle a romantic relationship with a higher functioning woman…well, it would take a TON of time and work just to get to the baseline. He is a project Jessica. A very BIG project. I know you have your standards. You say this: “A lot of what I’m willing to work with and not is rooted in whether or not the guy trusts me” and yet here you are not holding to your standard. It’s clear that he doesn’t trust you and he never will…he doesn’t have that ability…even if he were to go to the front of the stage with you or engage socially with your friends, it won’t be comfortable for him, it won’t be fun for him, it won’t be easy for him….it will be PURE struggle and his struggle will dampen your joy. His struggle will impact your ability to have fun because he is not likeminded with you. He will not find joy in the same things you do because of his fear.
Let me explain it this way…likemindedness is INCREDIBLY important for the success of a relationship – especially when it comes to joy. Here is an example: Imagine you are sitting on the sand, looking out at the ocean and watching the sunset…and you are so connected to the beauty, the peace, the vibrant colors, the sound of the birds…it puts you in a state of pure gratitude and connection with nature. Then he comes along and sits next to you. You share your thoughts about how beautiful it is, how amazing you feel, and the bliss you are in. His response is “Ya, it’s pretty….let’s go, I’m hungry.” His lack of likemindedness not only crushes your bliss, it takes you to a lower state of being than even before you saw the sunset. Studies have been done on this by the way.
My point is, his inability to be likeminded about enjoying social interactions will change how you get to experience your joy. When you are at the front of the stage and enjoying the music, bumping shoulders with people, having fun – all of that will be dampened because you will know that he is struggling and NOT having fun and having to deal with massive amounts of fear. And you will know it and feel it and that means you are not FREE to just be and enjoy yourself the way you can.
So I’m circling back to this: this guy is going to be EXTREMELY high maintenance and A LOT of work for you, even if he were to step up a bit. You know depressed guys…so are you okay stepping into a very similar situation again? A situation where your words and your perspective will not be believed by him? A situation where his low self-esteem will be front and center all the time? A situation where you will constantly be trying to help him feel safe in his life? I’m not sure why you think that having a few more experiences with him will change the core issues he has…his challenges are SO BIG that what you saw the first time was not a once off thing. It’s how he moves through the world. Do you REALLY need more information? What you want, he cannot offer you. This will be hard, but if that what you want…you definitely get to give it a shot! I know I’ve done that, knowingly, many times. I wanted connection more than peaceful and easy. Maybe it’s something to consider and look at within yourself.
Heidi
Hi Jessica! Welcome!
Thank you for sharing so much detail as it helps give a more clear picture of the dynamics that may be going on. It’s very obvious that you have a lot of self-awareness and level of emotional intelligence that will make this challenge of yours, more easy to navigate. I love that you have done some research already to help set yourself up for success. Well done!
I’m not going to answer your questions quite yet, because I want to invite you to think about a few things first and then we can go from there.
I understand that how you feel and experience this guy (online only) makes you feel more open and safe than you have ever felt before. That is so very powerful! I can understand why you feel so connected and bonded to him. The problem is, that is actually not translating to the reality of who he is in person and that absolutely will sabotage the success of this relationship. Your expectations of what it would be like in person were not the issue. Your expectations were pretty appropriate for how you guys were connecting in person. I know it’s always best to go into things WITHOUT expectation, but that is just not realistic. We all do it and always will. It’s just part of being human. So I would more say that your problem was not about what you were expecting, the problem was that he is VERY different in person than he is online or on the phone. His level of social anxiety is EXTREMELY high. I’m wondering is he on the spectrum. Regardless, his reactions to you have NOTHING to do with who you are, your bubbly personality, your lack of making him feel comfortable around you. His reactions to you have 100% responsibility to do with whatever disorder he is dealing with. This is something you cannot fix for him. I don’t care how comfortable he eventually gets around you, it will never change how he deals with social situations IN PERSON.
So here is the thing Jessica….imagine 10 years down the road, you are going to dinner with your friends without him AGAIN. Your friends barely know him and you guys hardly go out and do anything because it’s just too overwhelming for him. Imagine a life where you do all your bonding INSIDE the home and hardly do anything outside the home. Trying to get him to try new things will be like pulling teeth for him. That’s what a life with him will most likely be like. Yes, he has friends, but how well do they actually know him? How much time does he actually even spend socializing with his friends IN PERSON? And how long did it take for him to even become friends with them? And what are his past experiences with relationships? It sounds like trying to develop relationships with anyone new IN PERSON is extremely difficult for him. And as you have seen, it doesn’t take much for him to disappear. That is his survival mechanism. When something gets hard enough, he will pull away and go into his “cave” and become unavailable. He did that with your chat group, which is window into how HE handles stress. He may have been a great listener with you, but when it comes to how HE is feeling, with enough stress and the right kind of stress, he is the type that will shut you out and go into hermit mode. Whatever disorder he is dealing with, those tendencies will ALWAYS win. His fear will ALWAYS be greater than any love he may develop for you. His fear will ALWAYS win. It’s in the driver’s seat of his life until he decides to do something about it.
So…you are looking at entering into a relationship where you become the parent and he becomes the child. You are already doing it by wanting to act different, be different, do different in order to make HIM feel safe. You already do not feel you can just be your authentic self without scaring him away. That is mothering. Moms are meant to make the environment safe for their child and that is exactly what you are doing. He is an adult and you need to treat him as such. You need to expect a man to be able to handle his fears and challenges and face them head on. You need a man to be strong enough to handle your authentic self. You need a man to have enough self-esteem to be able to communicate with you honestly and NOT need any handholding from you…and that’s what you are setting yourself up to do….A LOT of handholding. The relationship will end up becoming about him and HIS safety and you constantly trying to figure out how to make it okay for him. Is this really what you want?
Let’s look at the reality here. The connection and safety you feel with this guy is NOT enough and here is why. Relationships last because 2 people are able to work through the worst moments with each other TOGETHER. A relationship with this guy IN PERSON means you would end up feeling quite a lone in a lot of different ways. I have no doubt he would be able to meet some of your needs, but there would be a lot he would NOT be able to meet because of his level of anxiety of which he has no control over other than creating isolation for himself to recalibrate.
I’m not saying it couldn’t work, but in order to make this relationship work, it would take A LOT of work on your side, it would throw the balance off quite a bit while you spend your energy trying to constantly help him feel safe and it would be a lot of you mothering him. That works for a while, but I guarantee you, at some point, you will be drained of everything you have and you would eventually not feel happy with him. It is not an easy path you are choosing to try and have a relationship with a guy who is dealing with whatever lives in him. It works incredibly well over technology where he gets to have his space and you don’t have to deal with his intense fear and low self-esteem all the time. He needs some help. He is NOT a high functioning guy when it comes to relationships, so you really have to look BEYOND the connection you feel and look at the reality of who he is and what he can offer you. The reality is, IN PERSON he is NOT the kind of guy you most likely would be attracted to. If you had met him organically and in person, I’m guessing nothing would have ever started because he is not open to meeting new people. That’s the reality of who he is IN PERSON. He doesn’t have the skills nor enough self-esteem to be able to hold and sustain a romantic connection. Romantic connections are INCREDIBLY stressful and hold the most fear for everyone…not just him. He already can barely deal with just surface connections in person, and you want him to be able to support a romantic, deep kind of relationship with you that is going to activate LOADS of fear in him and in you? Because that is what love does…it activates soooooo many insecurities, fears, coping mechanisms, hurt, pain etc.
So…I’m going to ask you….do you really want to try and make this work with guy who is not set up to be able to sustain or develop a deep, intimate relationship? I won’t blame you for trying, as I know the connection you feel with him is strong…the problem is, is it’s a connection that doesn’t translate into reality IN PERSON. It only works online.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Marina,
I’m so sorry for what you are going through. I know how incredibly good it feels to feel deeply connected to someone. I know you just want to keep nourishing that connection and keep it going. It’s so hard to watch it slip away and not be able to do anything about it. It’s heartbreaking. Of course you want to keep this going!
I’m going to validate the answer you already know but don’t want to admit to. It’s time to let go. He is not willing to put the effort in and he not only told you that, he is now showing you that and it’s important for you to listen to that.
I know you feel that deep connection, but it’s not being reciprocated. His ACTIONS are showing you that. And….most guys do not get THAT deeply bonded to a woman in just a few months with only a handful of visits. You are moving pretty fast with a guy you barely know. He is also military and he knows he gets moved around, so I’m guessing he never really invested on the deep level that you did. I’m only saying this because a guy who is DEEPLY invested, is willing to do the long distance thing. A guy who absolutely feels like the woman he is with is a woman he wants to continue to have in his life, he will do the long distance thing. A guy who is invested, wouldn’t text you “I miss you” and then drive an hour to have sex one last time and then completely disconnect. That’s actually a very unkind thing he did. He opened your heart, he bonded with you physically and then completely became unavailable. That is NOT a caring thing to do at all. To me, it comes across as him wanting to get one more dose of you before he left and was a completely selfish thing to do. He wasn’t thinking at all about how it impacts you. His ACTIONS, not his words, are telling you how invested he really is and from an outside perspective, he is not invested to the level you are and he is gone.
I know how much this breaks your heart. I know that falling in love is such a beautiful thing and to not have it reciprocated is incredibly painful. AND…it’s time for you to let him go. You want a guy who has NOTHING stopping him from wanting to know you. You want a guy who WANTS to stay connected no matter where he is. You want a guy who is so invested in you that he is willing to do what it takes to stay connected. This guy is definitely NOT that guy and you need to let him go. He is not enough for you. He is not able to offer you what you want and that is VERY clear. So it’s time to accept this and let your broken heart begin to heal. The more you try and reach out, the more you try to re-ignite things, your heart is going to keep breaking from his lack of response. Your best option is to close the door and begin to heal. I’m soooo so sorry!
Heidi
I used to love that time we spent going to the game and then after. Sometimes we would grab something to eat after and I enjoyed that time.. I understand. This new design of how you both move through life currently, is NOT permanent. It’s just temporary. You both still have A LOT to learn about each other and you will go through many different phases. So while you miss hockey, it will circle back around. The more you create a life separate than him, the more you give him space, the more the business becomes successful, the relationship will shift and change. I’m guessing that when you miss hockey, you are viewing it as if it will never happen again. Maybe it won’t, BUT it’s also possible that a date night gets thrown in there and you get to spend that same type of time with him, just in a different way.
What I don’t know or understand yet is how to see exactly what my parents did or didn’t do created this. I know I will learn that through coaching. Yes, I can see how this would be confusing. First, it’s important to understand that our genetics our personality impact how we respond to life. That’s why one child will turn out completely different than their sibling, even with the same type of traumas. We are just built differently. In a very basic way, whatever happens as a child, it stays in state specific form. This means that whatever age a trauma or challenging moment happened, it sticks in the brain with the mindset of that child. For example, your entire life changed at age 13 when you got picked up from school and driven to a different home. Your 13 year old brain created a story around what that meant about life, about you, about family, about love etc. and it stays in a 13 year old mentality. Our brains do not fully develop abstract thinking until our early 20s, so whatever happens before that time means that we do not have the full capability to process challenging moments in life with FULL understanding. So…when you get triggered and abandonment feelings come up, it’s you viewing that moment through the lens of your 13 year old, because you’ve never processed those 13 year old stories and feelings. It’s stuck as a 13 year old. So as the 13 year old, you are wanting your boyfriend or anybody else to parent you…to fix how you are feeling…to make everything okay for you…to comfort you….to create stability for you….you want them to do for you what your parents should have done for you and because they didn’t, it left you feeling like you cannot feel safe in the world, especially safe in love. If your parents were so uncaring to never talk to you about their separation, about what was happening, and they never took the time to prepare you for the changes, then that tells me enough about the kind of parents they were and how many other moments they did not prepare you for life in a healthy way. So now as an adult, anxiety (fear of the future) is your constant companion. Does this make a little more sense?
Sometimes I do wish he would communicate with me when something is bothering him. Is there anything I can do to make it more comfortable for him to do that and not feel like he doesn’t want to hurt me? Yes….I hear this from women ALL THE TIME. They want their men to talk so much more than they do. I get it AND it’s also part of understanding how your guy moves through life differently than you do. Why he doesn’t talk includes a TON of variables….most of which involve how his parents raised him and their role modeling. It also is about his genetics and personality and it’s also about his own relationship with love. With every woman in his past “leaving him” he is going to have the story that women leave running in his veins. And he is not the type to dive in and look at that story and clear it so you can have a clean slate. It’s a story he will live with forever, so he will always be holding back a part of who he is…because that’s just what people do to “survive” instead of heal. We all have our backpacks FULL of stuff we carry around with us everywhere we go. So that means that being in relationship with him means you are loving his backpack full of his crap too….and in that backpack are a lot of things you haven’t even discovered yet. I would also suggest reading “Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus.” It’s an old book, but I feel explains the differences of men and women and how we move through relationship differently. In the end, it’s dangerous to keep “wishing” he was different. That thinking is you building a wall between you. That thinking puts you in a mindset of lack and making him “not enough” and that will absolutely leak out into your interactions with him. So again, it’s YOUR job to accept him for EXACTLY who he is and focus on what he IS doing.
Right now, things are getting better. Right now, he is becoming more affectionate. Right now, the business is bringing more money in. Now you know that when finances get more tight, he will shut down more and become less available – that’s his stress response – his coping mechanism that has NOTHING to do with you – and this is who you are choosing. His coping mechanism of pulling away is going to activate your anxiety and abandonment issues – this will be a forever pattern, so NOW is the time to learn how to navigate it differently. You cannot expect that HE will change, so all you can do is work with your own triggers and learn how to stay empowered WHEN he rejects you again…because it’s going to happen MANY more times.
So keep your focus on what you DO have. Every time you start to wish he were different, ALSO add in those thoughts about what he IS doing that you love. It keeps things more in balance.
Keep writing to us! We are here and the best thing you can do for yourself is to continue hearing different perspectives, different approaches, different ways of moving through your triggers.
Heidi
Hi Lynda,
Checking in. How are you feeling? Are you able to shift some of how you are viewing the situation? It’s a pretty tough thing to do when you have strong and powerful wounds that are sourcing your viewpoint. But maybe you are starting to see how your past is influencing how you are experiencing your relationship and what is happening. Any new developments?
Heidi
Hi Lynda!
Yes, you are getting triggered all over the place! I know how awful that feels! It’s unfortunately a necessary evil in order to grow. You want to become a better partner, yes? You want to get a handle on your anxiety, yes? Well…this is the typical process. You get triggered, then you work through the triggers, the stories, the hurt you are carrying from your past. Basically, pain is needed as a motivator. If we felt good all the time, we wouldn’t be inspired to grow now would we? So pain…pain will show up to create movement. You can either listen to it and work with it and let it be your teacher, or you can bury it (which is what most people do).
I tried to get a part time job, but I couldn’t do it because it was when all this started happening and I couldn’t focus and do the job because of the anxiety. I also just kept thinking about everything I could be doing at home to help the business while I was there. This is your co-dependence again. You quit a job because you are wanting to help HIM and HIS business. You are wanting to invest every part of yourself into HIS design, HIS life, HIS job and that is the key pattern that is contributing to the distance you are feeling from him. You invest everything you have, he receives it, but doesn’t reciprocate and then you become resentful because he is not supporting or investing in you on the same level. Your connection is really out of balance. So….my suggestion…go get a part time job. Go do something that you LOVE doing. Take that money and use it for yourself….maybe use it for a therapist or coach. Or maybe start contributing to the bills and helping out that way, instead of relying on him to take care of your. Start to take care of yourself and relieve the pressure he is feeling. This is such a great way for you to start to create your own piece of your day that doesn’t involve him.
I definitely suggest to NOT go into business with him. He would not be a good business partner for you. He does not move through life in the same way you do and that absolutely will create problems in your business. Besides, you are wanting to create a different pattern with him where you are less reliant on him, so going into business together is the OPPOSITE of what would be healthy considering the dynamics you are both trying to figure out how to navigate.
You are angry at HIM for not being supportive, but remember…you cannot ask for something from someone else that you are not doing for yourself. You want HIM to support you and help you? What are YOU doing to support yourself? Where are YOU meeting your own needs. Money is tight? Well…go get a job. He wants to spend a lot of time at hockey? Well…that’s the perfect time for you to have some “me” time and go find things that you love – just like he is doing. You want to feel more connected and supported in your life? Go make some friends, get a dog, go volunteer somewhere and find that connection for yourself. YOU SOURCE YOURSELF.
He wasn’t happy when he found out and made a comment that I “quit another job”. I know you felt he was supportive of your choice at the time, but then he responded like this. What is important to understand about your guy is that he is not very honest with his feelings. You are seeing his coping strategies. This comment is EXACTLY the same as him one day all of a sudden pulling away from you and needing space. Like I previously said, I have no doubt he was feeling the need for space for many, many days and he just finally reached a limit and “burst.” He just couldn’t do it anymore so he “all of a sudden” disconnected. He never communicated his HONEST feelings with you. Now, he makes this comment which contradicts his previous support. He was not honest about how he felt. So this guy is showing you that he is not strong enough to be authentic with you. He is hiding his true feelings, most likely because he is afraid of hurting you. This coping mechanism is typically created as a child where the parent punishes the child in some form or fashion, for having opinions, thoughts, feelings that counter to their own. The child then learns that it’s not safe to be honest and authentic. Does this make sense?
Again, I was hurt by no support. I get triggered very easily when I don’t get support because my oldest sister never supported me. All I ever got from her was lectures. I don’t know how to handle this hurt. Of course you get triggered easily, but remember…your triggers are YOURS to deal with, not his. Taking ownership of your 13 year old and the life she had to live feeling very alone is for YOU to deal with and not for your boyfriend to fix for you by behaving in the way you want.
How to handle all of this? Well, I’ve given you places to start. You need to start to fill your life up with YOUR activities, NOT HIS. Make friends, join groups, go to movies (I go by myself all the time), make a weekly date with yourself….I LOVE to go to the same coffee shop, get to know the baristas and other locals so it feels good to go there and read my novel. I sooooo look forward to doing that!
As far as the rest of it goes, your triggers, your anxiety, your anger….your wounds are coming to the surface now and you cannot escape them. He will keep triggering you over and over and over again and this is why you need an expert to help you navigate it. I know that can be expensive and I know money is tight right now. So get a job and pay for it. If he is willing to cover everything else, then it’s a worthy investment of your time and money to set yourself up for success. You can also join a group and follow a program. Here is one that I know about. I really like Dr. Nicole. She puts out a ton of good content and I know she has a program you can join for your self healing journey. https://theholisticpsychologist.com/. This can at least get you started in the direction you are wanting.
Heidi
Hi Lynda!
I totally get it! You are trying to find an evening where you both just get to connect, make memories, and nourish the connection. And I understand the anger you are having.
First, it’s important to understand that although you feel angry, it actually needs to be more directed towards your parents. That anger you are feeling is from that 13 year old little girl whose life got uprooted in a matter of seconds WITHOUT warning!!! That is awful!! That little girl did not feel like she mattered. Currently, you are feeling like you don’t matter. Do you see the connection? Our lovers are able to trigger the unresolved wounds in us like nobody else…because they are closer to the heart. Your guy is behaving in a way that triggers the “I don’t matter” belief that you have been carrying around since you were young. Does this make sense?
I’m glad things are improving. I want you to focus on that aspect and NOT the date night. This is completely an educated guess, but I’m thinking that he went MONTHS needing more space from you but never said anything until recently. It’s going to take some time for him to re-orient. Meaning…he still needs more space. My guess is, date night once per week is still too much for him. So how about saying something like this, “I’ve been wanting a date night once per week and it seems like it might feel like it interrupts your life too much now. So how about we aim for once per month? Does that feel more doable for you?”
I want to go back to what I previously mentioned. You are around soooooo much that he has no room to even miss you. I guarantee you, if you start doing your own things, spending more time with friends, going to activities that do not include him, he will start to feel that space from you and start to miss you. It’s a very different feeling for you to be giving him space for him to go do his stuff vs. giving him space by YOU going and doing things yourself and creating a life separate than him. If he comes home and you are not there because you are out with friends or doing an activity, THAT is true space. Do you understand the difference?
Be patient. This is going to take quite a bit of time for BOTH of you. When you find him not excited or not motivated, do not take it personally. I absolutely know this is much easier said than done. You are soooooo used to be enmeshed with your man that you don’t know who you are separate than him. Your current guy joined you in that pattern, but it became overwhelming to him. There absolutely is such as a thing as too much of a good thing. It’s VERY normal and healthy for BOTH men and women to have separate lives, to have a sense of privacy and independence, to have places and things they do without each other. It’s actually an important quality of healthy relationships. This is a very new idea for you, so the “space” you are taking is VERY hard for you and very personal. It’s making you feel not wanted, not important, not valuable and whatever else your mind can come up with, but it’s simply not true. It’s activating your low self-esteem in a big way. If you had a stable, loving, connective, healthy childhood, you would not interpret his need for space as him not valuing you. You would respect it, understand it, and also require that for yourself.
This is where a coach or therapist would be able to help you out. It’s important to really connect with your wounded self that is getting triggered by his “inaction” and taking it personally. The truth is, he would be like this with ANY woman.
So your job is to take ownership of your reaction and not put this on him. You put it where it deserves, which is on your parents for handling their situation in such a poor harmful way. You put it on your parents for not setting you up for success. You put it on your parents for not helping you establish a solid, strong sense of who you are and your value. They left a big, gaping hole in your heart and the only thing you know how to do to fill it, is with a man. Well, now you are with a man who is NOT wanting to do that for you and that’s a good thing, because that hole needs to be filled by you. That means working through your anger, healing, forgiving, releasing the past etc. It’s a journey and NOT easy, but one worth taking without a doubt.
So I suggest NOT to talk to your guy. Instead, find out where he is willing to meet you. Aim for once per month. And maybe, don’t even PLAN it, but instead, spring it on him and say let’s go out on a fun date this week – but only ask him to do that once per month. The rest of the month, make sure you are creating activities for yourself that keep you busy and less available to him. This, in and of itself, can absolutely change the dynamics. You WANT your guy to miss you, so you have to be absent for him to get to feel that. He NEEDS to feel that, because that is what he missing right now. How is ever going to miss you when you are there all the time?
Does this help?
Heidi
I just would like to ask why I am so different than my boyfriend? He also married around 20 or 21. Is it because I am female, or because his ex-wife was different than me? It’s both. Men and women are sooooo different when it comes to love and romance. Men are much more oriented to producing and doing in this world whereas women are much more oriented to relationship. It’s part of why the roles of the man being the provider and the woman being the caretaker have existed for centuries. More than that, his life has been completely different than yours. He absolutely will have stunted his emotional growth if he got married at that early age, but it just expresses itself in a different way than yours.
Do you have any suggestions on how to start to own my visions? This one I don’t fully understand. What kind of life do you want to live? What do you want for yourself? What kinds of activities do you want to do in your life? Do not attach it to any person. Do not attach it to love. Just you…that is all you have to think about.
My question – is there a possibility that someday he will trust in the fact that I won’t leave? This is not a fact. You cannot promise that you won’t leave. Like I said, no one can ever promise that. Many things can happen in life that change how people feel. Are you telling me that if he continues to become more intensely rude and unkind and mean during his “time of the month” towards others and towards you, you are going to continue to allow yourself to be treated that way? What if he starts to call you names and starts to increasingly criticize you? Are you telling me you are going to stay around for that? What if he isn’t willing to work on things and change? Are you going to just stay with in a relationship where you are not thriving and feel safe? My point is, he shouldn’t trust that you will not leave and nor should you. He could absolutely decide to leave and considering how he handled this last situation where one day he all of a sudden changed how he connected with you…he could do the same thing again where he lets something fester and fester and you will have no idea and then all of a sudden he tells he is leaving. He has already shown you he has the ability to do that, so he can and most likely will do it again. So I bring you back to this…relationships and love are a DAY BY DAY choice and offer no guarantees. Not you, not him, not one single person on the face of this earth can promise forever.
Beyond that, the only way he will be able to trust, is to face his hurt from the past. The pain from his past acts as a barrier to intimacy. He would have to face that pain. He would have to let it go in order to open his heart to deeply connecting again. He most likely will not do something like that, so you have to accept that it’s just going to be part of who he is. We all have baggage we bring into relationships, so we have to decide if that baggage they are carrying is something we are able to accept. This is what I call the non-negotiable list. These are the qualities that you REQUIRE in a relationship and are non negotiable. For example, I HAVE TO HAVE a guy who is active. I love to hike, go on walks and be outside as much as possible. I will not work well with a guy who doesn’t love to do the same activities. I HAVE TO HAVE a guy who is emotionally intelligent. I will be soooo bored with a guy who doesn’t know himself very well. It’s NOT about what you want, it’s about what you cannot live without. Meaning…if certain things are missing from the relationship, you will not be okay.
One of the most important non-negotiables is how someone treats you in their worst moments. When things are great, it’s easy and safe, but when things are not so good, how people treat each other is what will make or break the relationship. Studies have shown this over and over and over. It’s in our worst moments where trust is built or broken. So, it needs to be part of the non negotiable list. For me, if someone is critical, blocks me, judgmental, blaming, or anything less than respectful, no matter how amazing he is, I will not stay connected. I treat people with respect, even in my most stressful, hurt times and I expect the same treatment. I will not feel safe in anything less than that. That’s my standard. So you have to decide if his disrespectful and unkind nature when he is stressed, is something you can accept. If you keep telling him not to treat you or people like that, that is you not accepting that this is part of the package. All that will happen is the same cycle over and over again. He will continue to be mean and you will continue to nag him about it. That’s not healthy. He deserves to be accepted for everything he is and so do you. If he wants to change that part of himself, then he will when he is ready. The reality is, he doesn’t care enough to do anything about it. He wants to just play it off as his “time of the month” and then do nothing about it. He doesn’t care how he affects you or anyone else. Someone who truly cares takes action and actively wants to shift their behaviors. That is not what is happening here. So…he is who he is. You have to choose to be with him AS HE IS.
I guess to me, going to hockey was something we did together. He was excited I was there. I was there to support him, and I enjoy watching him. I still get butterflies. How about you find other things you can do together and let hockey be just for him. If he wants to invite you, then he will. Otherwise, let it be his guy time. Then you can plan other fun activities to do together that involve both of you instead of you just watching him. What ideas do you have?
I wish I was better at how you put it – telling him my feelings without him feeling attacked. Sometimes, no matter what you say or how you say it, a person will feel attacked. People like this carry quite a bit anger inside. I’m guessing he might be one of these people, considering how unkind he can be when he is moody. You can do your best, but he still might react no matter what.
My biggest thing is dealing with my issues. I know I have to get through it to become a better me. I have been working on it for years. It gets better, then takes a step back. I was doing good until recently. I love that you want to focus on yourself. That’s the best place you can start! I will tell you that is sounds like you have more layers you have not worked through if this pattern is still affecting you this strongly. So it’s good you want to dive deeper and work on it. I will email you her contact information.
Heidi
Okay…you got married at 20. This makes more sense as to why you function in relationships like you do. The 20s decade is a HUGE time for personal development. It’s the first decade of entering into adulthood where you get to make your own decisions, pay your own bills, decide where to live and who to live with, decide what you want to look like and be like, start your career and the list goes on. Our brains don’t even fully develop until around 22 or 23. So when 2 people decide to get married as young as you both did, you end up developing your identity TOGETHER. So your identity develops through the lens of another man and vice versa, instead of developing your identity all on your own. Everything you decided to be in the world, had to be shaped WITH a husband, so you developed NOT knowing who you were just by yourself. This is the danger of getting married so young. There is no separate identity. It’s 100% “we” because that was the design of your life. I dated a lot and had a few boyfriends in my 20s, but because I was not attached to anyone by living together, designing and entire life together, I was able to develop the “I”. My needs, my wants, my passions, how I wanted to live my life…all these things that we learn about who we are in the 20s. So…you skipped those developmental years…and because of that, you view relationship through a VERY young lens. Whatever developmental phases we skip, due to life circumstances, that part of ourself that didn’t grow up, ends up influencing how we think and move through life, but from that childlike viewpoint, not an adult viewpoint…because that part of us that didn’t develop, stays stuck at that age. So because you didn’t develop your identity in your 20s on your own (you developed your identity with your husband), you now view relationship in the way you developed your identity at that age…you view relationship as a “we” and you want to spend all day every day and support EVERYTHING he wants and expect the same in return. This is a young viewpoint. This is your 20s viewpoint that didn’t know who she was separate than a man. Hopefully I am making sense here.
I have always thought little of myself and had low self-esteem. My boyfriend is the only one in my life who ever made me feel so wanted, beautiful, important. He helped tremendously with that. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that he has given you these kinds of experiences. It’s helpful to have someone hold a vision for us, that we are not able to have about ourselves, BUT it becomes damaging when we don’t actually start to own that vision for ourselves and instead continue to rely on the other person to keep the vision alive and going well. As you are experiencing now, he is not sustaining what he started and it’s causing you to fall apart, because HE was the one who kept sourcing the vision for you, instead of you starting to own it. Does this make sense?
I want help with why it bothers me so much that he’s ok with talking to his friend all day, everyday, but yet that would be too much time if it was with me. This one is quite simple. It’s his FRIEND. It’s a man. A man has not cheated on him, left him several times, broken his heart…a woman has. It’s a completely different type of relationship and obviously, they vibe really well together. They have the same rhythm, they move through life in similar ways, and that’s why they can connect so frequently. There is a safety there. They have the same expectations of each other. You on the other hand, require romance, want to be with him all the time, expect him to treat you in certain ways, and have needs that he doesn’t have to think about with his best friend. You are trying to compete with his best friend when it’s a COMPLETELY different relationship. It’s like comparing apples to oranges. They are fruits, but COMPLETELY different compositions and flavors. So it’s important for you stop comparing how he relates to his friend to how he relates to you. Remember that he doesn’t trust women. They have cheated and broken his heart and left him every single time he tried to love again. He figures you will do the same and it doesn’t matter how much you tell him that you won’t leave and you “work through things,” you cannot promise you will stay forever. No one can. The reality of love and relationships is that anyone can leave at any given time for whatever reasons they deem necessary. So…it is a risk to love and there is no way around that and he obviously is going to have less trust because of his past experiences. Does this make sense?
I am trying to be ok with not going to hockey. Let’s talk about this. What does it mean to you to NOT go to hockey? What do you think will happen if you don’t go?
I have told my boyfriend this during one conversation and I have told him I deserve to be treated better. Just some communication tips…saying “I deserve” can be a triggering thing for anyone when they are being confronted. I can come across as demanding and can easily activate walls in someone else. The goal when communicating your needs, is to say things in a way that keeps the other person open with walls down. That can be very challenging and is definitely a skill. So instead of saying “I deserve” you want to approach it in a different way that makes the man feel like you are not pointing the finger at him. Here is a way you can approach this: “When you do _______ I end up feeling like _______”. So for example, you could say “Do you know that when you give me a compliment, it makes my stomach have butterflies and I feel like I’m in junior high again. It feels amazing! I really miss that side of you.” or “When you compliment me, it makes me feel wanted. When you shifted and started to pull back, I felt like I wasn’t wanted anymore. I know that is NOT how you want me to feel. You are an incredibly thoughtful and caring man. I do get triggered because of my past experiences, so I know that is playing a part here. You obviously get to be you, but I do want to teach you that you offering me compliments is really powerful and healing for me.” Do you see how this feels different than “I deserve to be treated better.”
And the last thing I want to say about that is that while you believe you deserve to be treated better by him, it doesn’t sound like you treat yourself any better than how he treats you. You said you think so little of yourself, so I imagine you have the critical and judgmental voice inside. So this brings me to a cardinal rule…never ask for something from someone else that you are not giving to yourself. So asking for him to treat you better all the while you are not treating yourself like gold, means HE becomes your everything because you aren’t doing the inner work for yourself. He becomes your strength and the source of your self esteem instead of you being your own source. This means, he fills the holes FOR you and that always breaks intimacy, safety, and connection at some point. It is a design that never works and if somehow 2 people DO stay together with that design, which of course is very possible, they are not in a thriving, happy relationship.
My belief was always that when you are in a serious, committed relationship there is no more I and me…it’s us and we. You can have independence but not a separate life anymore. Is that wrong? I’m curious, where did this belief come from? It’s not “wrong” it’s just half of the picture. There is definitely an “us” and “we” AND there is “I” and “me.” For example, making BIG money decisions usually involves BOTH people. Making smaller money decisions like buying clothes or gifts, or grabbing dinner to go can absolutely be and “I” type of thing. For example, I know of a couple who agrees to split all the major bills, but everything else, even the cars they choose to buy, they each buy themselves with their own money that they earn. So it’s a “we” AND and “I” kind of design.
Let me explain it this way. Relationships are 3 parts. 1. You 2. Him 3. the relationship. All 3 parts NEED to be honored and paid attention to. All 3 parts need to work in order to have a relationship that sustains. I myself have experienced this and have coached many people through the same thing where they liked the other person but they didn’t actually like the relationship. It’s sooooo important to truly love the relationship and what you both bring out in each other in order to have the relationship last. The relationship part is the “we” part. AND it does not negate that there is also the “I” that exists for him and the “I” that exists for you. The “I” mostly exists when you are apart from each other. This is a VERY important part of a relationship…the “I” that lives separate from the “we.” For example, I love going to the dog park every morning at first light. It is a very important part of my day. I actually love just going by myself and I don’t want anyone else there with me. It’s the time I get to spend with my dogs, walking in nature, being playful with them and they get 100% of my attention because I don’t have anyone with me that I have to talk to or connect with. That time with my dogs is so important so that’s an “I” thing. But a “we” thing can be hikes with the dogs together on the weekend. So I have a life that exists JUST FOR ME out of the relationship because I spend a lot of my day doing my business, working, and doing my life…then when we come together, it becomes “we.” Is this making sense?
When it comes to needs, BOTH needs are important in the “I” but to work together means understanding the “I” part for each person and then TOGETHER come up with ways to meet each other’s needs for the “we” part. Does this expand your viewpoint a bit?
How do I go about dropping the pressure for him and finding out what his mold is? You drop the pressure by realizing that your mold is just YOUR mold…not his. You keep trying to make him fit into what YOU think your connection should look like, that you end up smothering HIS mold. So it’s first understanding that your mold is your viewpoint while also understanding that his mold is his viewpoint. So the goal is to look at each other’s molds and figure out how to create a new mold that contains BOTH his version and your version. Those are the 3 parts of a relationship. 1. Your mold 2. His mold 3. The relationship mold created by both yours and his mold. And these molds will ALWAYS be changing and shifting. Growth happens, life happens, people are always changing in some way or another, so the molds are going to change as well. And that where good communication comes in…making sure you both are being honest about what’s working, what’s not working anymore and then how to shift the mold a bit so it can fit the changes. The most important part is to understand that your mold and his mold, although different and many times might be contradictory….neither person is right or wrong. How do you learn what his mold is? Simple. Just ask him. “What does your ideal relationship look like?” “If you could create the perfect relationship to match exactly what you wanted, what would that look like?” And DO NOT get upset with whatever his answer is. It might be sexist, it might not be as romantic as you imagine, it might not be close to what you imagine. Who knows. Whatever his answer is, keep asking questions about it until you understand why his mold is what it is.
I also suggest to start creating a life separate than him. You love singing, yes? So make that YOUR thing instead of wanting him to be there. He can be there for performances of course, but other than that…it’s JUST YOURS. It’s your “I/ME” time. Are there any other hobbies you like to do? Just because you don’t have a car right now, doesn’t mean you are stuck or trapped at home. Go for a long walk, maybe volunteer at an animal shelter and see if someone there could pick you up and drop you home…or take an Uber. Maybe take an art class, learn ballroom dancing, take a language class, go audit a college course…there are so many things you could do with your time, so start filling it up with things besides him. This will absolutely take the pressure off of him AND it will help him miss you. Don’t you want him to miss you??? How can he ever miss you or feel the absence of you if you are always there?? He NEEDS to feel the absence of you, so he can appreciate when you are there. Have you ever thought about traveling? Go somewhere for a weekend and take a tour. One of the most amazing relationships I knew of – very vibrant, connective, and they were soooo in love…they actually lived in 2 different states for 12 years. They visited each other often, but they filled up their days with their own lives, so when they came together, it was always fresh and new. They missed each other a lot which is always great for the sex life, and they made it work. Separation is HEALTHY and NEEDED for a relationships to work. So create separation. Pay attention to that 20 year old who never got to develop her identity all on her own. What would she want to do with her time?
Thoughts?
Also, I know of an INCREDIBLE coach who can help you address your fears. Her methods work quite fast (if you are willing to do the work of course). That moment of being picked up from school and finding out your entire life changed, can absolutely be healed to where it has no affect on you anymore. If you are interested, let me know and I will send you her contact information.
Heidi
Hi Lynda,
Welcome! We are so glad you are here. Hopefully we can bring some insight and clarity into your situation that will help you both navigate this in a better way to set you up for success. So let’s dive in.
First, how you view relationship is beautiful and how you want to connect with a man is truly wonderful. AND…it’s not how men view relationship (generally speaking). So let’s see if I can help bring you closer to how men tend to operate, because your challenge is, you’ve only been with 1 man your entire life, so your understanding of how men operate is going to be limited.
My first question is, how old were you and your late husband when you met and started dating?
Second, moving in with a your current boyfriend after 4 months is a pretty fast paced decision. I’m wondering what the rush was. It’s always best to wait until the honeymoon phase is over to make decisions like that, so you can actually start to learn and see who that person really, without the “rose colored” glasses.
First, I really want to address this thinking and this need of yours: I also need to feel important like I matter, like he wants to have a future with me. . Yes, we ALL (it’s a human need, not just a woman’s needs) want to feel important and like we matter. I’d like to explore this further with you though, because the way you are talking about it, it sounds like there could be some wounding patterns in your system that are distorting how you are viewing this. I’m going to address this in 2 parts.
1. The reason why I am saying it sounds like you have some wounding patterns in this need of yours, is because you are expecting and requiring from him that HE makes you feel valued and important. First and foremost, this need is for YOU to meet yourself. Because he is human, there are going to be MANY times he will not make you feel as valued or as important as you want, so WHEN that happens, you need to have the skillset and relationship with YOURSELF that says “I AM valuable, lovable, worth fighting for, worth knowing….whether or not he thinks so right now.” Instead, when he doesn’t give you the attention and affection you want, it causes you to lose yourself. You withdraw, you stop being yourself (not playing the music you want), and you start to feel disconnected from him. So in essence, you are relying on HIM to make you feel valued and if he doesn’t then you don’t feel valued. That is basically saying “YOU are the one who holds my value. YOU are the one that tells me whether or not I’m worth it.” That is you giving away your power. That is you putting your worth and value in the hands of someone else and that ALWAYS sabotages connection at some point. Why? Because is it absolutely guaranteed that the other person is going to fail at that. They will hurt you, disappoint you, abandon you, betray you….we are all human and mess up in various ways, right? So WHEN that happens…WHEN the relationship faces it challenges, it gets exponentially more difficult when you wait for him to behave in certain ways to know that you are valuable. Does this make sense?
This is a SUPER hard question to work with, but it’s an important one. I ask this to all my clients whenever they are facing hurt or challenge with someone. And I ask this question, because it teaches you how to take care of yourself when the other person is not helping you. What is it that you are wanting him to do for you, that you are not doing for yourself? So from what you are saying, you are wanting him to make you feel more valuable. Well…what are you doing for yourself, to make yourself feel more valuable, loved, and connected with? This question is about your relationship with yourself. How YOU treat yourself. How YOU respect yourself. How YOU love yourself. How YOU value yourself. How do you meet your own needs when he can’t or won’t meet them for you??
This is a super layered topic and I’m just touching on the surface of it. I want to make sure you are tracking so far, so let me know your thoughts on this.
2. You have this checklist so you know you are important to him. This is dangerous. You are thinking that support means him showing up to your singing lessons, him being more romantic, him giving you more compliments, him touching you more. You are thinking through YOUR perspective about what deep intimate connection is, but YOUR perspective first of all, is a female perspective and that is just not how most men WANT to connect. Second, it doesn’t allow him room to be inspired, but instead makes him feel like he has to behave and do and be YOU want him to be in order to feel happy. Love languages and attachment styles are just 1 box to understand how people connect differently, but there sooooooo many more layers beyond that. What’s important to understand here is that your perspective and view and experience of the relationship is different than yours and what YOU define as a secure relationship, is different than him. Just different. Not right or wrong on either side. Just different. So would you be willing to let go of the checklist? Would you be willing to consider that him NOT wanting you at hockey or going to your singing lessons, as time NEEDED apart and that it doesn’t mean he doesn’t value you? Would you be willing to consider that being late to your family events doesn’t mean he doesn’t value you? This is a perfect example where you can meet your own needs. Leave without him. If being on time is super important to you, then go yourself and he can meet you there when he is ready. This is you meeting your own needs instead of relying on him to be what you want so you can feel happy.
This is where I’m guessing that he is feeling the “clingy” energy. Clingy to a man means his woman is relying on HIM to make sure her world is okay and THAT is super stressful for a man. At first, it can be endearing, but then it turns into a toxic pattern and causes a man to pull away. I’m guessing that’s why he needs some space. It sounds like you both are together quite a bit and while that may feel natural and normal for you, that definitely is NOT the way most men operate. Have time apart is so very important. He needs to miss you. He needs to go have a life SEPARATE than you and vice versa. It gets VERY boring for most people to be around each other all of time. That’s why the divorce rate skyrocketed during Covid. We were not meant to be around each other all of time. So him feeling like you are wanting him to be your ENTIRE world and wanting him to make YOU his entire world, which is the flavor I am sensing when you explain everything (you want him to want the same kind of relationship you do), it’s just not going to work for him. Men typically do not want relationships like that. It’s just not how they are built.
So he is needing more than space from you. He is needing you to drop the pressure for him to fit into YOUR mold. His mold needs to exist and be just as important to you too. And that means that how he operates is going to NOT meet some of your needs…and that’s okay! You have to figure out how to meet those needs yourself.
There is so much more to talk about here, so let’s keep talking. I think this guy is actually VERY good for you. He is causing you to grow and giving you opportunities to expand your knowledge and work with your limitations. Be patient with him. Be patient with yourself.
So I backed off even though it made me feel unwanted. I don’t understand how one day he wants to spend all day with me, but the next day he was totally different. In a day he stopped touching, talking, spending time, complimenting me. How does that happen overnight? My guess is, this had been brewing for a while and then all of a sudden, he reached his limit and couldn’t take it anymore. Considering how much you rely on him for your happiness, he probably wasn’t talking to you about how he felt because he didn’t want to hurt you or disappoint you. He probably doesn’t trust that you would be able to handle his feelings and you might leave. Considering his past where every woman left him, he is absolutely going to hold back A LOT of himself because of his fear of being hurt. So although it looks like an overnight occurrence, it actually was something he was dealing with for a while.
I’m glad it finally came out though! It’s important for you to know that how you function in relationship is NOT how he functions, so now you both can start to put your cards on the table and figure out the combination that works best.
Here is a podcast you might want to listen to. It definitely will challenge much of how you think about romance, relationships etc. I’m guessing you will disagree with a lot of what this guy says, and that’s okay. I think it will be a good listen for you, because it will absolutely educate you on how most men experience women and vice versa. He talks a lot about our differences and offers a lot of really great ideas. I don’t agree with some of what he says, but absolutely see his point on everything and appreciate his views….which I absolutely respect because he has a TON of experience!!!! I definitely think he will validate a lot of your boyfriend is doing and why and he offers ways to work with it.
Also, here is a great resource for everything relationships. There are a TON of amazing tips here and I love their information!
I’m glad you are here Lynda! Let’s keep talking about all of this. Feel free to push back and question anything I am saying. My goal is for you to learn, grow and expand, so it’s important that what I’m sharing makes sense. If it doesn’t, then let me know! It’s hard on this kind of platform to type out very complicated and dynamic concepts that involve love.
Heidi
Hi Miroslavna,
I’m glad you are willing to accept the reality of the situation. I know how hard that is. It takes a lot of courage to face letting go of the fantasy that has kept you company for so long.
I believe he is not romantically interested in me. While this may be true, you actually do not know why. What I want you to avoid is blaming yourself. You mentioned making 5 of the 7 mistakes with him, remember that he has made a lot of mistakes with you too. A relationship that works is one where the connection is stronger than those mistakes. We ALL make mistakes all of the time. And while you may have made 5 big mistakes with him that supposedly “pushed him away” (I’m assuming that’s what the book says), it NEVER is that simple. I have been coaching in the this industry for over 2 decades and there is no such thing as a specific formula to get anyone to like you, because each connection is super unique. I have seen women make TERRIBLE mistakes, yet the man still fight for them. I have seen INCREDIBLE women who are very good at relationship, be rejected many times.
What I want to encourage you to do, is instead of looking at the “mistakes” you made and blaming yourself for him not liking you, how about studying the components of what it takes to make a relationship work? Relationships are 3 components: 1. You 2. Him 3. The relationship. You can have 2 great people but a terrible relationship. I had a relationship once where I really loved the man, but I didn’t love our relationship. Our connection was just not healthy, regardless of how much we loved each other. So what I love to study is the 3rd component, the relationship itself and what makes it work and last, and then I reverse engineer it.
For example, a sustainable relationship requires that BOTH people take responsibility for their actions and they do not operate from a victim / blaming / shaming mentality. So then I look at myself. Do I operate that way? How do I think and behave when I am stressed or hurt?
By understanding what a healthy relationship requires, you can then look at yourself. What qualities do you have that support a healthy relationship and what qualities are you not so strong in that support a healthy relationship. And then I apply it to the guy. I ask those same exact questions and see if he even has the ability to offer me a healthy, sustainable relationship. Because no matter how much I might be attracted to the guy (that’s just chemistry), it doesn’t mean he has what it takes to offer me what I need. So I’m always asking “can he do the job?” I’m always asking myself that as well. And that’s just the place to start.
This is a GREAT place to study relationships. They have the BEST information that is so helpful! It’s the place to start to help you understand what standards you need to have in place both for yourself and for him, if you are going to have a successful, nourishing, long term kind of love. https://www.gottman.com
Thoughts?
Heidi
