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Hi Maya! Welcome!
Wow…I’d have to say this is one of the most interesting and unusual questions I have come across in the years I have been working here. I’m excited to have a discussion about this.
How about you explain further what you mean. I want to make sure we are on the same page, as people have many different definitions of what mystery or integrity are.
Is there a big age difference? And this person you are interested in is not feeling intrigued with you? Am I understanding correctly?
I’ll generally comment on some of your questions to see if I am understanding correctly, and then we dive deeper as I get to know you a little better:
What am I missing about intrigue? What if you aren’t missing anything about intrigue? Just because someone doesn’t feel intrigued about you, doesn’t mean you aren’t intriguing. You could line up 100 people and each and every person will feel differently towards you. So who is right? No one and everyone. The thing we all have to be careful with, is not handing over our value to anyone else. What’s important is what YOU believe about yourself. Do YOU think you are intriguing? If yes, why? If not, do you actually WANT to be that? Why?
Why did flirting stop? There are many reasons things change. I can’t tell you what your person’s reasons are, but I can tell you that the answer is probably more layered and dynamic than you think. If you understand that someone around 80% of what we decide and feel, is actually driven and sourced by our subconscious, then it will help you get that MOST of what people feel, say and do is coming from a place they are not connected to. So if flirting stopped, they may have lost feelings for you. Why? Could it be possible they have some trauma around love and so their system shuts down their feelings to keep them safe? Absolutely. Will they be aware that is what is REALLY happening. No. All they will know is they are not “intrigued” by you and that’s where it stops. So few people are able to understand the depths of why they feel and act the way they do. So I would suggest to RARELY take things at face value. There is ALWAYS an underlying story underneath with many layers to it. If someone has never traversed those parts of themselves, they will have no clue what happening other than what they know consciously. Does this make sense?
Why warmth is so much more sensitive and delicate to maintain then hot or cold even? Hot and cold is a game that is again, sourced by the unconscious. Anyone being hot and cold is someone you want to avoid. Their system is not set up for success. It’s someone who has a “split” running the show of their lives. By that I mean, they have 2 parts of themselves that feel differently and whomever is in the driver’s seat of the moment, is the one that is dominant. One moment the connective side is driving and then the next moment, the scared or angry or disconnective side decides the other one is being too vulnerable. I’m generalizing here, but hopefully you get the point. Warm is only delicate to maintain if a person is not able to fully receive it, embrace it and be in relationship with it. Warm is important. If warm is all you are offering though and also not offering other kinds of connectiong/energies to play with, then there might be something in you that needs to be explored. What does “warm” mean to you? How is this playing out in your relationship?
What is the status of your relationship? Would you be willing to share what has happened?
Heidi
What do you love about Sevilla?
That really sucks about your boss. Why do you think she is like that? She might have a need to really keep everyone “under” her and stop growth, so people don’t become too successful. It’s a way of keeping “power over” people, things, situations. Some people want company in the misery. She might be one of those. It’s so sad really. Whatever her reasons are, she is stunting the company’s growth and causing a lot of problems. Does she have a narcissistic flavor about her? Is is possible for you to take her job? I wonder if she feels threatened.
I sure hope your other boss that you talked to about it, really does something. I think if other people go talk to him as well, it will really help. It’s been a few years of this stuff, right? How come you waited this long before you said anything to him?
Heidi
I’m so sorry that this is turning into such a struggle for you. You have left one challenging situation for another for many years now. Ever since you introduced yourself here on this forum, it’s been nothing but big challenges in the work department. At least this time, you actually like your work. It sounds like the people are really nice, so far, and that you are enjoying what you get to do, but the environment is still really tough. Getting this last email from you sounds like things might be looking up just a bit, at least socially. Yay for the kayak club!!! I’m excited about the new adventure you get to look forward to!
I’m glad that Dave finally reached out! How is your connection getting along? I can’t remember if you like him or not.
Heidi
prove I have his back. I wanted to point this out, because it’s important to pay attention to HOW we speak. It’s part of our subconscious patterns/stories etc. come to the surface. My question is, why do you feel you need to “prove” anything to him?
what is a good response or how do you tell a man that you don’t “need him to provide “ primarily because I’ve been single so I have been surviving up til now. Without making them feel less. Is there a happy medium or a way to phrase it? You are getting wrapped up in HIS story. He has a story in his mind about the kind of man he should be and what he feels needs to be in place for him, if he is going to be a partner for someone. That’s HIS thing, not yours! Let it go. If he feels “less than” because you don’t need him to provide for you, then all you are doing to triggering insecurity in him and that insecurity is NOT for you to try and fix. He has to fix that for himself. Your questions and thought process are about trying to “rescue” him from the insecurities and fears he has aligned with in his life right now. You cannot rescue him and you DO NOT want to. He needs to know how to rescue himself otherwise he will be no good to you. You are not doing him any favors by trying to lessen his discomfort. Don’t you want a man who steps into his fears? Don’t you want a guy who embraces his discomfort and fights for himself and the relationship? Don’t you want a guy who is able to recognize that his fears are getting in the way of connection and then does something about it? That is a person who is ACTIVE and in relationship with himself, therefore is able to be in relationship with another. He cannot be in relationship with you right now, because he is not in relationship with himself. He needs to face his fears, the stories that are sourcing those fears and then he needs to work on shifting those stories and aligning with the truth. That’s a lot of work to do! He has his own process. Whatever that process is, it’s not for you to fix. So there is no “happy medium.” The answer is…be your authentic, strong, self-sufficient self. If it triggers a guy, then that’s on him, not you.
Thoughts?
Heidi
There’s always a battle between the head and the heart isn’t there? There is what you feel and then there is what is reality. It’s a tricky situation and unfortunately, trying to get everything aligned and on the same page is one of the hardest things to do.
The thing is, our emotions are NOT the facts. Our emotions are made up of and sourced by the stories we internally tell ourselves and invest in. Every situation has an infinite possibility of stories that could exist. The story we choose to attach ourselves to, will depend on our past experiences, our personality, how we relate to the world, our current mood etc. The story we choose to align with, so instantaneously, and without conscious thought, feels 100% real and justified. The story that we invest in 99% of the time, is chosen by our subconscious…the part of us that carries all of our feelings we have “forgotten” about our lives. Why is this important to understand and why is this relevant? Because it’s where the truth about our feelings and stories live.
I’m going to share something personal here. I recently re-connected with an old flame from college. It was the MOST POWERFUL connection I have felt, to this date. I have dated for over 2 decades, so I have a HUGE amount of experience, so to say that he was the person I could see myself with, is not saying lightly. However, his actions were not really lining up with his words. His feelings for me were also deeply powerful and he said all the right things…a lot. But he didn’t have follow through. For around 6 months, I kept giving him chances because I FELT he was better than that and I FELT that the connection we had was real and worth fighting for. I wanted my heart to go to him, undoubtedly. What I FELT was so incredibly powerful, that it dominated my actions, regardless of everything I logically knew. What did I know? I knew he was not to the level of emotional health that I require. I knew that his words were real, but I also knew his actions (that were not aligned with his words) were also real – and when actions and words don’t align, RUN! I knew that when I decided to respond to him reaching out to me, I was “bored” with my life. I knew I held onto him because he is a firey energy that brought out a certain part of me that I loved and I knew that I was relying on him to source that, instead of doing it myself. And the list goes on. I watched myself ignore everything that was logical and everything that was the truth and everything that was reality. I knew the odds of us living out the fantasy life my mind had created for us, was most likely not going to happen. Even with all the dysfunction that ensued and all the red flags that were strongly waiving themselves, I chose connection. I had never felt that kind of connection before and it was all consuming and powerful. I’m telling you this to let you know that I understand how you feel. I understand the battle that lives within you. I understand how you want to ignore ALL logic and allow your heart to source you and lead you.
The thing is, the heart is a tricky thing. Everything I felt was real, BUT what sourced how I felt was a BUNCH of crap. I had to do a handful of sessions with my coach after separating from him. I was in so much pain. AND…I connected to parts of myself that were starving for love and attention. That’s were the source of my feelings for him, came from. That part of me held onto him for as long as possible, so that I could feel the connection and feel wanted and feel alive and feel “love.” The thing about love is…it’s not REALLY love if you don’t involve yourself in the equation. Meaning, loving this guy was, in truth, not a loving thing for myself. It was a love that was being sourced by some old wounds I was carrying around, not a love that was present and sourced by 2 people that were aligned and higher functioning. So although I felt this “all powerful, can conquer the world kind of love,” it was extremely fragile and not built on a solid foundation. Once I connected to myself to those wounded parts that were starving for attention, the love I felt dissipated greatly and my desire for him became aligned with the reality that he is not emotionally available nor is he able to align with my standards. I can now align with my own standards easily and the love I feel for him is distant and clear and has no authority over me anymore. This is an example of how our emotions are not facts. I’ve done this hundreds and hundreds of times – I feel something, I explore the source of my feelings and discover that some part of my subconscious is influencing how I feel, so I learn that my feelings are actually not clean and clear. I shift/heal whatever I connected to in my subconscious and then what I feel changes. It’s easy to say all of this and understand the concept of it, but it’s a whole different thing to take action on it and even know what to do about it.
The very first thing to do is to explore yourself. Journal. Ask yourself these questions. Why am I willing to fight for a guy who does not want to fight for me? Why do I love him? What will happen if I let him go? What am I afraid of by losing him? What if I can’t get him back. What will my life look like and feel like? Is it possible to actually find a guy who can’t imagine his life without me? Is it possible to find a guy who will fight for me, no matter what? What would that feel like? What would our relationship look like day to day? How would that kind of love feel for me?
These are just some questions to get started and play with. I suggest writing it out, because it’s an easier way to access more your subconscious thoughts, IF YOU DON’T FILTER what your thoughts are. Let is all come out freely and without constraint. See what comes up. What other questions would you ask? What other feelings exist? I know you have feelings about him bailing on you like this. As much as you feel love for him, he also bailed so fast and so unexpectedly. What kind of guy feels okay to do that after being engaged? You must having feelings about this too, so write about it. Explore your inside world and allow yourself to feel everything that is inside of you. Then explore those feelings. Do they feel familiar? I know for me, my college boyfriend activated a lot of how I felt around my dad. I didn’t really exist in a healthy way in the presence of my dad. So those familiar feelings got activated when this guy showed back up in my life. It was fascinating to uncover some of my old stuff that I didn’t know was still there.
I know this is a lot. Thoughts?
Also, here is a wonderful Tedx talk about healing a broken heart.
What you are saying makes a lot of sense and it is so sensible too , it does not however reflect my hurt and feelings of love I understand, deeply, that you are hurting from the loss of this relationship. Breakups are some of the hardest and most challenging things to get through. There are sooooo many layers that get triggered in a breakup and it takes time and conscious effort to really face the reality of what is happening. All we want is out of pain and the way out of pain is to get back together and source the love again. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way. Even if you were to get back together, the reasons for the breakup in the first place do not change, so you just end up getting back together, feeling massive relief from the pain, but then…down the road, whatever problems are there, they will come up again and cause a disconnect and sabotage the connection….then you are right back where you started. Ideally, our person would sit in front of us and say “I can’t stand my life without you. I want you back and I am willing to work through every speed bump with you. I want to face all my fears, I want to be more honest, I want to communicate better and I want to be a much better partner. Let’s sit down and really talk about what isn’t working, what is working and let’s figure this out.” Wouldn’t that be wonderful?? I truly wish this for you, but it doesn’t seem like he is interested in that.
If all you focus on is getting him back, you set yourself up for failure down the road again. You love him so much and you just want him back, but it’s not addressing the problems that have you in this situation in the first place. I don’t know what HIS challenges are exactly, that caused him to break up in the first place, but I DO know that despite you believing in this amazingly loving, connective and wonderful relationship, he was having a different experience than you. Whatever he is afraid of and whatever his reasons are, it’s all big enough that he ended the relationship. Whatever his blocks are, it’s bigger than any love that is shared between you guys. That’s a very hard reality to come to terms with, yet that is what you are faced with and have to deal with. I wish there were some magic words to make the pain go away from the hole that the loss of love creates. I wish I had magic words that would make him come back instantly and never want to leave again. Unfortunately, he gets to choose his life and the very best thing you can do, especially if you ever come back together, is to honor and trust his process right now. I know that’s not what you want and you want a plan of how you can get him back. There are no guarantees. You can do and be the very best and give him everything he needs and he still may decide to move on in his life.
I would like to use your suggestion in responding to him but I think I need to be more directive as leaving the choice with him might be too much for him to handle. I think you are not giving him enough credit. He is a grown man and is able to make his own choices, regardless of any stress he may be going through. I’m wondering why you feel you need to be more directive. Do you not trust that he can handle saying yes or no to a conversation with you?
Also do I need to leave some more time for him to calm ?! I think you guys need to have a conversation if he is willing. It’s just a guessing game at this point. There is no way to know what he needs because all there is, is silence between you guys. He hasn’t responded to any messages you have sent, he clearly said he didn’t want you to try and convince him to get back together and he has left no indication that he is interested in connecting any further. At this point, it’s just a guessing game as to what he will respond to. That’s why I suggested the message that I did…IF IF IF he is going to respond, he needs to feel safe to do so. He needs to KNOW that you are going to honor his choice and NOT try and pull him back into a relationship with you. He will keep his distance otherwise, at least for now. The breakup is also so new, that it’s going to take some time for him to feel the loss of you. You can always just wait it out and maybe he will reach out when it all hits him really hard about what his choice was. Who knows.
Whatever you decide, it needs to be based on you and what YOU feel comfortable doing. You have to have the strength to be you instead of being the person you THINK you need to be so you can get him back. He needs to love you and want you for your TRUE self and nothing less than that.
Heidi
Thank you for sharing more!
Is there anything you can think of that changed in your life, his life or the relationship that would have started to cause him to shift a bit? Did he start to shift AFTER he asked you to marry him? Getting engaged after 6 months is a pretty fast decision, so I’m wondering if he started to micro-manage his feelings because his fear came up really big.
What was his last marriage like? Why did it end? Are he and his ex-wife friendly with each other? What is his relationship history?
I’m wondering if you took marriage off the table and just went back to getting to know each other, without pressure, if he would be willing to do that. It feels like he is just running and he does not want to hurt you. I’m wondering if he just doesn’t trust himself to be a good husband again. Maybe he is more scared of marriage than he originally though. Maybe he doesn’t want to “fail” again. I don’t know the story he has in his head about what it would mean to marry you. Maybe that is something you can find out.
I’m guessing you still have not responded to his email. Maybe you can say something to this effect, “Thank you for telling me this and being honest with me. I was sensing some changes and now it’s making a bit more sense. I have no interest in trying to convince you, or any other man for that matter, to be with me. I’m only interested in a man who feels very clear that his life is better and more wonderful with me in it and it sounds like you might not feel that anymore. I will only respect and honor what feels true for you. Would you be willing to at least talk with me? Naturally, I have questions, but mostly I would just like to create closure and get on the same page, but in a peaceful and loving way. Would you be willing to meet up for lunch later this week?”
If he is willing, then we can talk about how to handle to the conversation. How does this approach make you feel?
I think it’s important for you to talk to your 15-year-old self. You are trying to micro-manage and do everything “perfectly” because you are afraid. Let’s play out your fear. What EXACTLY are you afraid of? Losing him? If you lost him, then what is going to happen?
Give voice to your fear and all of your feelings so that you can sift through them and identify where the lies live. When you can identify the lies, you can then empower yourself with the truth.
So write it all out here and then we can guide you through it if you want!
Heidi
Welcome! Thank you for sharing your challenge with us!
Would you be willing to tell us what his reasons for ending things were?
What were the changes that you were noticing? How did you respond to those changes that you feel you did not handle very well? In what way?
Do you guys live in the same area or is this long distance?
How long have you been together?Heidi
I just now saw your other post and have a bit more understanding about what you are dealing with.
First, it’s important to understand that for men, their ability to PRODUCE in their life, is of the UTMOST importance….more important than relationships. It’s not unusual for a guy to get “lost” in his life when his professional life takes a turn. Relationships will fall apart soooooo quickly when the man’s ability to produce in this world is unstable. For women, it’s all about connection. We build our entire identities off of the quality of relationships we have. So take away our relationships and ability to connect, WE fall apart. This is, generally speaking, one of the biggest differences between men and women and how we experience the world. So his business is not what it used to be and he is losing his mom and now he has lost another close friend. Yikes! That’s a TON for a man and like most men, he will want to go into his “cave” and just deal with himself as his whole world is falling apart – and many times – at the expense of connecting with their woman. For them, they feel completely incompetent, insufficient and incapable of offering their woman what THEY BELIEVE she deserves. It’s a silly story they get hooked into really, because every woman going through this is feeling “What the hell are you talking about??? I don’t NEED any of that stuff from you! I can take care of myself! I just want connection!” But the man just doesn’t hear that because HIS story is much stronger than what the truth is. It’s a collective story and a story that has been around for thousands of years of how a man is the provider – and it takes a much more evolved, conscious kind of man to break away from that story and create a new one that is appropriate for this day in age and one that aligns with the relationship he is in. Does this make sense??
So your best bet is to continue to stay connected, but distant. He will eventually come out of his cave and HOPEFULLY have the capacity to be open and connected with you again. He may not, who knows. You have to decide how long you are going to wait and if you are going to wait.
As far as the plane ticket, being that you guys are on good terms, why not just be honest and say something to the effect of “Hey, I still have this plane ticket that I purchased way back when. I was thinking of still coming and maybe we can meet up for lunch or something. Let me know if you are open to this.”
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Stephanie! Thank you for coming back and sharing more. Let’s see if we can break this down a little more.
First, I completely understand the power of the kind of connection you feel with him. He feels like home. He brought pure joy, calmness to my life. He made me want to be a better person. For the first time in my life, I could see myself growing old with him. This is an incredibly strong and powerful kind of connection you feel with him. I wish it were enough. Countless relationships have ended, not because they didn’t love each other enough, but because the functionality of the relationship was not enough. Love is just the icing on the cake and it’s just not enough. An analogy I like to use is this: Let’s say I ask you to make a cake and I give you all the most amazing, top ingredients possible and then I give you 1 cup of shit that you HAVE to include. You can add as much sugar as you want, you can make the cake LOOK absolutely gorgeous and tasty, but the truth is, no matter what you do, no matter how amazing the ingredients are, that 1 cup of shit changes the cake and overpowers all those amazing wonderful ingredients.
When I’ve been able to be in person, he does deal with his emotions. It’s when I can’t be in person, not by my choice but because his walls are up, that he shoved his feelings under the rug. This is where your 1 cup of shit comes from, right? His inability to sustain connection with himself AND with you when you are apart, is a type of pattern that will ruin your gorgeous cake. For ANY relationship to work long term, BOTH people need to stay connected to each other, even in the worst, most difficult moments, and it sounds like this is where he was not aligned with you.
If I had actually given him the space he requested when I hurt his feelings or he would’ve been open to having an in person conversation, I don’t think we’d be apart right now. I understand your need to take responsibility for what happened, but it’s just not true. Relationships break because of BOTH people, not just 1 person…ALWAYS. Yes, you could have given him more space AND he also could have handled things differently as well. You are human and are going to mess up, so don’t you think you deserve a guy who is willing to work through things WITH you vs. disconnect when you are not being “perfect” for him? Relationships are about negotiation. Your needs and his needs are different, so it’s about figuring out how to honor each other in ways that keep you connected even in your differences – and that is what is missing from his side of things.
Thoughts about all of this?
As far as the gift, maybe you can text him and let him know you have a very personal bday gift for him and if it’s okay to drop it by your house and leave it on his doorstep? Or maybe you can leave it on your doorstep and he can come by and pick it up? How does that feel for you?
Heidi
Do you know if Marc is single?
It sounds like work is going really well, but everything else is a bit of a struggle. Hopefully you were able to get some winter clothes! Is 20k too much of a hike for you? I figured with how active you are, that it would be an okay distance for you. I’m so sorry you have to feel isolated. I know you though…you will find a way. You have so many wonderful interests. I wonder if there are any other types of social clubs besides meetup. Have you asked people at work? Maybe you can ask neighbors for the best way to meet people. I have heard that people are not super friendly there. That just means they need your warm and friendly heart energy to soften them up!
Spring is JUST NOW starting to show itself. It’s getting warmer, thank goodness, and the little buds on the trees are starting to show up. So excited!
Heidi
Oh wowowowow! OMG I am so excited for you! Is that your first time speaking in front of a crowd like that? I’m not surprised you are a natural. You have confidence, clarity and you have an understanding about people that would make it easy to listen to you, because you know what it takes to engage someone…and on top of that is your passion. I could listen to someone all day who is passionate. The energy of passion is completely contagious. I am soooo happy to hear that everything went really well!!! Yay! So what’s next???
Okay…it sounds like your osteopaths are similar to the ones that I know here, that are trained elsewhere and cannot prescribe medicine either. The U.S. trained osteopaths are much more limited in their knowledge of alternative methods of healing, so I don’t go see them.
Sevilla sounds so lovely. The more greenery, the happier I am. It’s finally becoming spring here. It’s warming up a bit and little buds are starting to appear on trees. I’m so so happy to have the green come back and start to hike again. Although the bugs and snakes can be problematic.
Thank you for sharing with me! I truly loved hearing about your experience and the impact you had!!!! You’re a powerhouse!!!!
Heidi
