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Hey there,
So are you a little sweet on Jeop? Or is he just a friend? Or maybe you don’t know him well enough yet?
I’m so sorry you are struggling so much. I know how awful it is to be somewhere you don’t want to be. It takes an incredible amount of energy and life force to get through the day. I love your shift in perspective though. Every day it’s going to be practice for you to pay attention to what you DO have. What IS working for you? Keeping your focus on those aspects will help you deal with the depression and find a place of gratitude and acceptance for where you are at right now.
Are you journaling at all? I know you don’t have your mountains. I actually understand what you mean about not feeling like yourself without the mountains. I’m the same way. Nature connects me to a part of myself that only nature can. I’m so grateful to be surrounded by this kind of beauty. Being that it’s not available for you right now, the great thing is, it can help you get to know other parts of yourself. It’s kind of like losing a sense. When you lose your eyesight, your hearing becomes more intensified, right? So without your mountains, you get to explore other ways to source your spirit and find joy. You get to be creative in your discoveries. Experiment with EVERYTHING! Painting, singing, dancing, writing a book, writing letters to your sons/grandkids, learning a new language, knitting….I mean the list is a gazillion miles long about how you can access your creativity, your heart, your joy and start to really source yourself in new ways. Depression is so entirely consuming and will color EVERYTHING gray, so you need to fight harder to put color into your day while you are there. And also find ways to express and move your anger, your confusion, your depression. Journaling is a great pathway, EFT, screaming into a pillow and there are a TON more techniques you can be doing daily for yourself to help you work with the feelings you are carrying around. Now is the time to proactive and really take care of yourself.
Heidi
Wow! Incredibly unusual to have a happy childhood. I love it!! While your parents were amazing in general, they are still human. There may have been moments when they were not at their best and rejected you, didn’t listen to you, didn’t support you etc. These kinds of moments happen in school as well. What about any siblings? SOMETHING in you has sought out men that were rejecting. You were in a loveless marriage for 20 years. You are now chasing after a guy who isn’t chasing you back. So your pattern with men is to attract emotionally unavailable men. Not that it’s all on you, of course. It’s just about looking at your side of things and starting to really connect to how you design your romantic life.
It could even be that you grew up with parents that were really good role models, so you never saw or learned about the challenges, signs and dysfunction that shows up in a person. So you inherently trust a guy and what he says, because you don’t really have a radar for anything else. I’m curious though…what made you stay in a loveless marriage for 20 years…especially when that is quite the opposite of what your parents role modeled for you?
What is your belief about yourself when it comes to love? Do you believe you deserve to be treated like a queen? Valued? Honored? Respected? Do you believe that you are just unlucky when it comes to love? Do you feel that maybe it’s not meant for you? I’m looking for some of your common thoughts and feelings you have about yourself in relationship to love.
Heidi
LOL! I actually have been told by many people that I need to write a book 🙂 It’s actually been coming up a lot stronger in me this past year. It’s funny that you said what you said. Such a confirmation for me. Thank you thank you!
Deeper self-love is a journey. I liken it to a treasure hunt. The ultimate treasures are the rare, valuable pieces you find of yourself. The map along the way is life…the pain, the hurt, the joy, the gratitude…it all guides us closer and closer towards discovering those parts of ourselves that aren’t quite integrated yet.
Most of those parts get separated from us when we are younger. It’s fascinating actually, how our brains and spirits work in unison to help us get past traumas or disruptions. For example, when a trauma occurs, it’s stored in state specific form. Meaning, if I was traumatized at 2 years old, it stores in my brain as a 2 year old. When that network gets activated, let’s say because I was rejected by a guy and it triggers the rejection of my mother or father at 2 years old, my reaction to that current rejection is sourced by a 2 year old mentality. That’s why pain is such an incredible gift and gateway to transformation. It tells us what we have not resolved yet. It tells us where those parts of ourselves are still stuck and it gives us an opportunity to connect, love and have compassion for our parts that are still holding onto the pain. This is where deep, powerful self-love is most impactful. This is where we learn to source ourselves and heal ourselves and not rely on someone else (who happened to press the button of that network) to help us feel better. Other people can help us, but ultimately, it is OUR pain that is so unique to us that only we can do the real work for true healing. It’s a forever journey.
Are there moments from your past that this rejection you are dealing with has triggered?
Heidi
It’s much more powerful to embrace my worth and let things be and just let it speak for itself. This is the truest and most powerful thing you have said!
I can’t help but think that if I find the right words to say he will be more willing to talk. Really? And what “words” do you think you can say? I bring you back to this question: Is it a loving and compassionate and connective thing for you to chase after a guy who doesn’t want to be connected?
But the emotional side of me, my warrior side, my passionate side, my caring side, doesn’t want me to give up on him. You are looking outside of yourself (to him) to resolve this pain inside, instead of claiming it, owning it and shifting it yourself. We all do this. We want the person who hurt us, to make us feel better. Instead, the power and healing lies within YOU, not him. I like to ask this question “What is it that I am wanting him to do or be for me, that I am not willing to do or be for myself?” This is a question you can apply to ANY situation where someone is not behaving like you want them to. When you find yourself trying to get something from someone they are not willing to give, then it’s time for you to source yourself. Give to yourself what you are craving and wanting from them. His absence is giving you the map to the greatest treasure you could ever attain…YOU. YOU are the treasure. The pain is the map. The pain points tell you where your “fault lines” exist – where the cracks in your self-esteem hold the deep, dark wounds – where the pain is so you can heal those parts of yourself.
So instead of looking at him to help you feel better, look inside and work WITH your pain. Your hurt has a story. What’s the story? What part of you is holding onto the need to control this situation? What part of you is not loving you? What part of you wants to chase after a guy who isn’t interested? Connect with those parts of yourself and hear your story. What are the lies you are carrying around about yourself? What are the limiting, false beliefs that are running in your veins? This journey is where you will start to find some answers and where you have the power to heal yourself in MUCH GREATER ways compared to if you got this guy to re-connect with you. He is just a bandaid to the hurt you are carrying.
As far as how to handle him maybe re-connecting, I don’t know. We are all changing every single day. Who knows who you will be by then and vice versa. Your energy is best spent on yourself right now and then trust that IF he reaches out, you will decide what to do at that moment. Instead, focus on right now…your SELF.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Rehab!
Thank you so much for your kind words! They were so beautiful and touched my heart. It’s a wonderful way to start my day 🙂
How can a woman keep a man’s love and not just be a passive reactor to what he does and decides?? This is a great question and there are a lot of layers to the answer that are far from simple. I’ll do my best to try and explain this.
First, the core truth is, we don’t “own” or “keep” love. Nobody does. That is a mindset that puts love into a very small box. Love cannot be kept, controlled, owned or contained on any level. Trying to approach love by thinking you can “do” anything with it or for it when it’s someone else’s love, is a path that is quite uncomfortable and “love” will teach you otherwise. Love itself is a very powerful force that has to be free. It’s a transformative energy, so the best mindset to have with love is “What can I do to support it’s expression…whatever that may be?” Sometimes love will cause harm, sometimes love will heal, sometimes love will disappear. It’s a force that is indescribable and it’s a force that takes the shape of the heart that touches it. That’s why we all experience love so differently. So there is nothing you can “do” to keep a man’s love. Your focus instead needs to be on you. The questions you need to be asking instead are “How can I become a larger container for love within myself? What can I do to love myself more deeply? What are the fears, limitations and programs I carry around love?” Being that we each are a unique container for love to be expressed through, when we shift ourselves, our beliefs, our hurts, our fears, we are able to be in relationship with love in a much more powerful, clear and authentic way. You want to focus on how to keep a man’s love, but the more powerful focus is actually focusing on your own container for love. The more love, the higher frequency of love you can carry, you will be able to hold space for another person’s higher frequency kind of love. In the end though, there still is no answer to your question. You are asking for some kind of formula or something to do or not do to keep a man’s love and no such thing exists. Love is a risk and there is no way around that. It’s unpredictable, as you know, and you cannot control how someone else chooses to be in relationship with the love they carry within them. It’s like trying to control a giant wave in the ocean. You can’t. All you can do is figure out how to play with it, be cautious because it can hurt you, learn every aspect about it so you can appreciate it’s true power and beauty, respect it and most of all, just let it be what it is….free to move and take shape how it feels like taking shape.
I keep thinking that I failed to retain his love and keep his investment Yes, you failed. It didn’t work and part of why it didn’t work was because of you. But let’s look at a deeper truth. What about you made it fail? Is it possible that you were “too” great in his mind and he wasn’t ready to feel that happy? Yes. Is it possible that he knew he would end up hurting the best woman he has ever had the pleasure of being with? Yes. Is it possible that your love scared the shit out of him? Yes. Is it possible that he just felt like the vibe wasn’t quite what he was looking for? Yes. I could come up with a million different scenarios. Yes, it didn’t work partly because of you, but whatever it was that you were contributing may actually be things you wouldn’t even change about yourself. The truth is, you don’t even know HOW you failed. All you know is that what you did, didn’t work. But your mind is turning this failure into something you could have controlled. You are trying to avoid the pain of “failure” by figuring out the formula to keep a man’s love. What is even more true is that you don’t know this ins and outs of this guy. I like to say “It’s not rejection. It’s redirection.” It feels awful now, but why not choose to trust that it turned out this way for reasons far beyond your understanding and that’s okay. I can’t tell you how many times, even years later, that I learned something about a guy I dated and was incredibly relieved thinking “Man…I dodged a bullet with that one.” Did I know that in the moment? Nope. Did I understand anything other than it hurt like crazy in the moment? Nope. I had to let go and really embrace what was.
The layer most people do not work with when it comes to love…or anything for that matter…is that we are powerless. We always are and we always will be. Life throws up curve balls and we cannot change that it’s here. We can change our relationship to it though. We can learn to be comfortable with being powerless. We can let go of our need to control so we can ride the wave more peacefully and be open to receiving the lessons that are before us. It doesn’t mean we don’t hurt or feel depression or feel like failures. It just means that is part of the ride and the ultimate flow is deeply loving and connecting with ourselves in that.
You are sourcing yourself well with people and things outside of you, but what are you doing for self love? How are you loving yourself through this? You are feeling like a failure, but how are you loving yourself while feeling like that? Are you REALLY a failure just because something didn’t work? And why are you calling it failure? According to whose ideas is it a failure? Because from my perspective, it’s just a connection that fizzled out because it NEEDED to fizzle out. Thomas Edison once said “I did not fail a thousand times. The light bulb was an invention with a thousand steps.”
Heidi
Hi Melissa!
In order for us coaches to make sure we get to everyone, it’s helpful if each person has their own thread. Would you mind post what your question on a separate post so we can focus only on you?
Here is a super quick response though. It’s not YOUR job to figure out what is causing his ED. That’s his job. If he is not doing any kind of research or trying to figure out what is happening, my first guess is…this is something he has been dealing with for a long time and secondly, why isn’t he trying to figure this out himself? ED has MANY causes. It could be something as simple as his diet, it could be mental/emotional, it could be he is intimidated (I doubt it), it could be a hormone imbalance…and the list goes on. If this guy is not willing to figure it out, then that’s enough information you need to know about him. He most likely is a passive kind of guy in his life. Meaning…he lets life happen to him and he doesn’t do much about what shows up. Not really a great kind of guy to get involved with. I know you don’t want a relationship, but I’d invite you to REALLY explore more deeply within yourself. Texting every single day and meeting up weekly is definitely setting up the stage for relationship and moving in the direction of connecting more and more deeply. It’s a slippery slope you on with each other. My guess is, were he to disappear or find some other girl to hang with and he pulled some of his attention away from you, it would hurt and it would feel like a breakup of some sort.
Just some things to think about.
Heidi
Hahaha! That’s funny that he thinks there’s a lot of wildlife, but doesn’t actually know what that means. It’s all about perspective, right??? I remember living in Tennessee for a handful of years and people would tell me, “You HAVE to go to this restaurant! It’s the best in town.” So I’d go and think, sheesh…really? I’ve been exposed to top notch restaurants most of my life, but obviously they hadn’t. They didn’t know any better. It made me appreciate my experiences that much more!
Something is missing in me here (and in Sarnia and in Lousiana). That’s a looooong time to feel like something in you is missing. What is it? What are you not feeling?
So what kind so feelings/thoughts do you notice you have about yourself when you are being awkward? From what you just described, it sounds like it’s more occasional/situational awkwardness and not really something that happens a lot for you. Maybe it’s only with brand new people?
Heidi
Hi Sophie,
Wow. You have been through an incredible amount of challenges and still have a lot to face. Of course you need mental breaks and of course you have moments of just wanting to pack your bags.
Wondering if worth it anymore and at the same time I don’t want to only see my son growing at only half of shared time. Let’s first talk about your son. It’s normal to have the fear of your son being hurt by the family breaking apart and wondering how this will affect him. The thing is, he FEELS more than you think and to FEEL the lack of connection in his home affects him too. There is no way to avoid hurt here. If your husband stays, there is an incredible amount of hurt because your husband is not interested in connecting with him. He would rather play video games and escape reality. If he leaves, there is the absence of his father, but it’s also possible that the visits will help build a better connection, because your husband will have had a ton of along time, therefore, he might be more present for his son and they may end up spending more quality time together. Who knows how it’s going to go, but 2 parents that are more happy separated are better then together and being unhappy. Your son will be okay! This is part of learning how to handle life that doesn’t turn out the way you want. As long as he feels you supportive, connected and there for him, he can absolutely be okay! Kids are quite resilient.
Are you still going to therapy?
This is incredibly tough Sophie. You have a guy who just doesn’t want to be involved or connected anymore. Whatever it is that he is dealing with, it’s more important and valuable to him that connecting with you. He isn’t willing to do the work required for healing. That makes for quite the lonely marriage, doesn’t it? He probably has handled his entire life that way. For him to go 2 years wanting a divorce and not saying anything…that’s a guy who doesn’t want to fight for something more in his life. That’s a guy who isn’t willing to be honest and authentic. He needs a lot of help and time to heal whatever it is that he is carrying inside. You both do.
Would you be willing to view this divorce as a clean slate? Divorce does not mean a permanent ending. It is an ending, yes, but down the road, it’s possible you guys come back together and are more high functioning. Who knows! Either way, the way he is right now and how you guys are functioning together, is just not workable. You don’t get to be yourself, he is completely shut down and is determined to stay that way….so let him be. Stop trying to convince him or chase after him, or appease him to help him feel happy with you. He needs to fight for himself that way. I know you have been together a very long time. I think a lot of people fight for a marriage just because they are trying to stay together and not lose their partner and the connection. But it’s more of an instinctual reaction vs. really fighting for a marriage that they actually love being in. Of all the years you have been together, would you say that you mostly have loved being married to him? Have you felt that deep love and connection most of the time (except for the last 2 years)? Is he someone you want to have by your side through the worst moments in your life? Meaning…is he actually helpful and supportive and your best friend? I know the past few years have not been that, but I’m asking about the rest of the time in your marriage.
Heidi
Hi Sophie,
Welcome and thank you for being here and sharing your story.
Are you saying that you had 3 different miscarriages? I’m sooooo so sorry that you guys are having to go through this. It’s heartbreaking and incredibly challenging. The loss of those babies would definitely trigger the loss of his mom. Death is incredibly difficult to deal with for most people and with him being avoidant, he will want to run instead of face his feelings and fears.
Since you were diagnosed with PTSD and him avoidant, I’m guessing you went to see a therapist? Are you still in therapy? Is he in therapy as well? Have you guys done any couples therapy at all?
Did he say why he wanted a divorce?
You have a pretty tough situation that is going to take a lot of time to mend, on all levels! The first thing I want to say is to be patient. It sounds like a lot of damage was done to your marriage first by the loss and then by both of you trying to survive that loss and not treating each other very well. How was your marriage before that event? How long have you been married in total?
It’s okay that missed all the signs. You are not perfect and it’s NOT your responsibility to figure him out and make sure he is happy. That’s HIS job. You are not a mind reader and you are doing the very best that you know how. Unfortunately, our best is not always enough and that’s where we just learn and try to grow from the situation. Sometimes it’s repairable and sometimes it isn’t. It depends on him too.
What is your current status? Are you guys still living together? Are you guys still talking? Is he still involved with his son at least?
Would he maybe consider a trial separation instead of a divorce? And then in that trial period, you guys can really create a plan about how to be better partners for each other. Read books, work with a therapist, go on a couple’s retreat, go through a program together. He obviously does not want to stay in the same patterns, so you both need to look at what those patterns are and figuring out how to shift them, first within yourself, and then with each other.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Yes, I could easily fall for Mark. He sounds lovely and definitely good eye candy. I can’t remember, is he from there or does he come from somewhere else like you? There are many other things on your non-negotiable list, so maybe start to find those things out to see if there is even potential here. Is he a Christian? If yes, what kind? Does he drink? I know those are on the TOP of your list. It might help knock him off that pedestal you have put him on.
Your awkwardness does come from insecurity. There is a lot of deep programming that you have never faced within yourself and this would be one place that it leaks out. Whether it’s trying to fit in, find the right answer, or trying to get people to like you…the bottom line in all of those things is insecurity. If you KNEW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, how spectacular you are, how loveable you are, how wonderful you are, then you wouldn’t feel awkward. With those beliefs at the core of your system, you would feel so comfortable just being yourself. That’s self-esteem. Your childhood taught you differently and you still carry a lot of those beliefs inside – hence feeling awkward. Why not come up with maybe 5 questions that you memorize and use ALL THE TIME with new people. People LOVE to talk about themselves, so that’s always an easy way to create comfort within a conversation. I love asking unusual questions beyond “what do you do, where are you from, how many brothers and sisters do you have?” So instead I might ask, “what are you passionate about, what is something on your bucket list, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would you pick?” Those are uncommon questions and people tend to become more engaged with questions they never get asked. You can go on the internet and type in “dating questions” and you’ll get a TON of them. This can be a good way for you to start to reprogram some of those negative beliefs you carry about yourself.
Do you feel awkward socially when working? I mean it sounds like you have a lot of confidence when it comes to work, so when you have to ask questions or gather information etc., are you awkward that way as well? Or is it just socially?
Do you always have to go through Bob first? What if you just went and did what you needed to do without him knowing. Is that possible? I know how hard it is to have to work under someone else’s ideas and they don’t align with your own. In the end, whether it costs more down the road or not, that is on him or the managers…not you. They have the final say and if they don’t utilize you, that’s their problem, right?
I worked with some girls that were first generation Polish for a couple of years. There’s still a lot of cultural programming for kids like that, so I’m sure you will have some fun exploring his differences. Do you feel awkward on dates too? I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned feeling awkward talking with the guys you’ve dated so far. I can’t remember.
Heidi
I completely understand why you want to keep him in your life. He felt really go to you. He sounds wonderful!
The thing is, you do not know each other that well. If you are ready to fall in love, there is something VERY important to pay attention to. Their shadow side. What makes a relationship break or last typically boils down to how someone treats you in their worst moments. It’s one thing to know someone has tendencies toward anger or anxiety or depression, but it’s a completely different thing to EXPERIENCE them like that. You guys know a lot about each other because of words, not necessarily because of experience. You mentioned all of these wonderful things about him that make you want to fight for him, but you are leaving out half the picture. What about his darker side? Are his limitations workable? Are his limitations things you are willing to work through with him? You can’t even answer that yet, because you don’t know any of this yet through EXPERIENCE. What you ARE experiencing with him is him disconnecting and NOT being vulnerable as to why. This is a limitation. Whatever it is that is happening for him, it’s big enough to hide and it’s big enough to disconnect completely from you. Whatever it is that he THINKS he is protecting you from, it’s more important than a connection with you. He would rather hide than be honest. In a real relationship, this would be a deal breaker. This kind of behavior will break a relationship, will break emotional safety, will break trust. The problem isn’t that he is this way, the problem is that he is not willing to face himself and whatever story he has created in his mind that makes him believe he needs to run away from you.
So when you view someone, make sure you see ALL of them. But in the end, it’s their worst or your worst that carries the breaking point, not their best. So before giving your heart to someone, truly know what you are stepping into. Pay attention to how they treat you under stress, how they treat themselves and how they treat others involved. Because that all will just continue to get magnified and will reveal where the arguments and disconnect will occur. So far, he is showing you that he runs. And maybe he truly needs to. Maybe he is really protecting you from him because he knows something that you don’t. Either way, you don’t have the option to get to understand his choice. All you need to know is that it’s his choice and it doesn’t feel good to be treated this way.
I’m not saying to give up on this guy. I know how good he felt for you. I’m just saying that regardless of how good you guys were together, he still is choosing to walk away and this is something to REALLY pay attention to. You need to magnify this side of him as much as you are magnifying the great side of him. Is this part of him acceptable to you? Is it acceptable for you to be treated this way?
I suggest working on healing your heart and letting him go. At the end of 3 months, he may or may not reach out…who knows. If he does, then you can decide at that point if you want to connect with him. But for now, HE NEEDS TO BE THE ONE TO INITIATE with you, not the other way around. He has broken trust. He has walked away and if you keep chasing him, you will just be teaching him that he can treat you this way and you will still be available for him. He needs to know he has to EARN you back. If he doesn’t want to do that for whatever reason, then you won’t hear from him again and that is enough information for you to know that he is not the guy for you. Whatever it is that he is hiding, it’s big enough to keep you away. Trust him. Trust his actions, as they show you who he is.
Thoughts? I know this is not what you want to hear or embrace. It’s awful to let someone go that felt so good.
Heidi
Very true, all those “tests” do not guarantee anything. You really did everything you could to make sure you were stepping into a healthy situation. In the end, we all are foolable AND life happens and something can instantly change someone’s heart – and in the end, we are all powerless. We cannot stop a wave from crashing. It’s an extremely difficult reality to face and feel into.
What everyday behavioral aspects are you working on shifting? And how are you shifting it? What’s your goal?
Heidi
Hi Sophie! Thank you for sharing! Would you mind posting your questions on a new thread just for you? It’s easier for us Coaches to make sure we respond to everyone if each person has their own thread.
Thanks! Heidi
So you really like Mark? How come? I know he is attractive and nice, but what do you actually know about him that makes you think he would be a really great fit for you?
Explain more about HOW you are awkward. How does it get expressed? What is the feeling you have inside when you feel awkward? Nervous? Insecure? You don’t fit?
Bob is strange. What do you think is going on that he would introduce you to people and tell you not to talk to them? Have you ever asked him why?
I’d be nervous about Turkey as well. It sounds like this guy is meeting all the criteria so far. Is he pretty responsive? From Poland eh? Have you talked with him over the phone yet? Do you know anything about Polish culture?
Heidi
Oh yay! I’m so glad a woman was able to drive you home and that kayaking was fun. Is it a monthly kind of thing? How many people showed up?
I’m glad that money is coming in on the horizon. It will make things a lot more doable and that’s really cool that you will get to work from home for a period of time! I absolutely would prefer the snow over rain as well. Rainy and gloomy and cold is my least favorite combination. Snow is at least beautiful and still go hiking etc. Do you ski at all?
I’m glad you had a bit of a connection with Mark. Is that where you felt awkward? How come? Or do you feel generally you are socially awkward?
Heidi
