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Hi Christey! Thank you for being here. I can tell how lost you are feeling and how badly you just want things to go back to the way they were. How long were you together? What were the reasons for him breaking up with you?
Christina is spot on. This guy obviously is not really invested in you or the other girl. He is just playing around and getting what he really wants…sex. If you want more from him than sex, then it’s up to you to set that boundary. Sex is NOT going to bring him back. Sex is actually making him put you in that category where he can get laid and not have to do all the other relationship stuff. So although you are getting moments of connection with him through sex, it’s an illusion to think you will get anything more from him. Why would he offer more when he is getting what he wants already?
I know you feel like you love him, but love is never enough – and the kind of love you feel is more wounded than clear. It’s wounded love because it’s the kind of love that doesn’t include YOU in the equation. Meaning, it’s NOT a loving thing to do for YOURSELF to “love” a guy who treats you this way. When it’s not a loving thing for yourself, then it’s the kind of love that is sourced from old wounds of abandonment, betrayal, sadness, hurt etc. When those feelings are big enough inside, it’s very easy to seek out someone to “love” to soothe pain as well as work on indirectly trying to resolve those past hurts with the current person. It usually ends up quite being quite a mess this way. Does this make sense?
Thoughts on this?
Heidi
Hi Toni! Welcome!
I know how scary it is to look at your life and feel like it’s all going to fall apart and there is nothing you can do about it. Your husband is unhappy again and of course a lot of your fears would be coming up. I first want to say, it’s important for you to connect more strongly to the truth that no matter what happens, even if you end up apart, you will be okay. This is so important for you to connect to, because it can help calm down the anxiety and you will be able to navigate this situation with much more clarity. When fear and anxiety are high, it really can make a mess of things. I am so so sorry for everything you have had to deal with in your life. You’ve been dealt some very tough cards to deal with and even in all of your messiness, you are doing the best you can – and sometimes it’s still not enough. It’s okay though. Loving yourself through times like this is the greatest thing you can do!
I just have a few questions. What is your husband unhappy about? Has he talked to you about what is missing in his life?
I understand that you are realizing you weren’t there for him emotionally. I also want you to understand that you are not responsible for his happiness….he is. You may not have been there for him, but even if you were, it doesn’t mean he would be happy today. A person’s happiness is about all kinds of things, not just the relationship. It’s about how he is feeding his body (poor nutrition can cause a lot of depression and toxic emotion), it’s about how he is exercising or not, it’s about how he feels about his professional life, it’s about how he feels at home – with you, it’s about his spiritual life and if he feels connected to something greater, it’s about his perspective of himself – none of things are things you have any control over, as that is HIS world and it’s for HIM to fix, not you.
Yes, you can learn to be a better partner, but I wouldn’t bank on that making him feel better about himself. He isn’t sourcing himself in a way that makes him feel happy, so no matter what you do, it will only be a drop in the bucket.
Do you think he would be willing to see a therapist with you again?
Heidi
Hi Melody,
I’m so sorry you are not getting a response. I’ll read through what you and Spyce have been talking about and respond to your other thread.
Heidi
Hi Christina,
I just read through your situation and let me just say, wow…you have been through a lot. I have a lot of respect for you! Regardless of what you have been through, you keep figuring out ways to get back up and keep moving forward. You have gotten help and you are still willing to keep your heart open to the idea of falling in love again. It’s not easy what you are dealing with and it takes a lot of courage. Well done!
I want to encourage you to take a step back. All the reasons you have mentioned about NOT moving forward with this guy are legit. They are solid, they reasonable, they are logical and they are reasons to give serious consideration. You can sum all those reasons into one…he is NOT emotionally available for you. It really is that simple.
Connection does not equal compatibility. You guys have a great connection, but you are not compatible yet, because of the very simple reason that he is not ready to be compatible with anyone yet. He needs to get his life together. He needs to get divorced. He needs to create closure before opening the door to something new. He needs to feel who he is as a single, non-attached guy. He went from wife #1 to wife #2 without processing anything – and look where it’s gotten him. It took 10 years and whatever the reasons are, he needs to learn who he is separate than relationship before he will be good for anyone else. And my guess is, he has cheated before. He said he would probably mess things up by sleeping with another woman – which feels like him knowing what he is capable of, because he has done it before.
I know he has activated a spark in you and that is incredibly hard to step away from. It’s still your choice, of course, but if you continue to connect with him, on any level, you are stepping into something where the odds of your heart getting broken are pretty high. I would encourage you to stay away completely. Let your heart heal from the loss, keep working with your therapist on your self-esteem and your loveability and move forward. There will be another spark and hopefully that man will actually be available for you.
Thoughts?
Heidi
I think it’s good to talk to a lawyer and look at what your options are. It’s good to set yourself up for the best, most peaceful way to go about this and where everyone is taken care of.
I also think it would be a good thing to find a therapist. Of course your heart is breaking. The family and love that you knew for soooooo many years, no longer exists and that is just devastating. You are carrying an incredibly amount of pain and having someone to talk about it with and help you process what is happening, would be the very thing you could do for yourself. I am happy to send you my coach’s information if you want. She has helped a lot of people through divorce/breakups etc.
I know the conversation with your kids will be incredibly difficult. Trust they will be okay. You both have created a solid family home life for many years. That foundation is what helps them handle the disappointments/heartbreaks they will have in their life. Trust that although they will have reactions and have to deal with the loss and hurt, they can do it. Trust they are strong enough. You both can be there for them in different ways and that is one of the best ways to support them as they navigate something like this. Also giving them an option of a therapist/coach would be a good idea. Most people don’t know what to do with all the feelings that come up. Having an expert who specializes in healing and teaching people how to process their emotions, will help them develop skills they will need for the rest of their lives.
Your friend calling him “rotten” sounds like her own trigger. She is angry. Her friend is hurting and the cause of that hurt is your husband. Yes, he has betrayed your trust and completely ruined the connection by disconnecting, not being authentic and running away from whatever it is that he doesn’t want to face. I wouldn’t say that he is “rotten.” I would say that he is incredibly miserable, confused and afraid. His fear is big enough that he is not willing to face it and he is putting you in the position of asking for a divorce instead of doing it himself. He is not a brave kind of guy. He is that guy that when things get tough, he runs instead of sticking it out and working through it. I know that may not have been who he used to be, but that’s sadly who he is today. He is making you do all the “dirty” work. He is no longer your partner. He no longer cares how he affects you. He no longer cares about his actions and is acting like a child whose emotions are controlling him all over the place. Whatever is happening for him and why, it doesn’t really matter anymore – he has abandoned himself and therefore has abandoned you. There is nothing you can do about that except to take action in protecting yourself. Your heart is sacred and valuable and he is no longer protecting it nor caring about it – so you have to step in and do that for yourself. Living in that kind of environment of constant rejection and being ignored steals your life force and damages your heart. It’s time for you to care for yourself. Make arrangements for him to move somewhere else. You and the kids should stay at the house.
Are you willing to take this kind of action? Are you willing to work with an expert who can help you navigate this?
Heidi
Hi Melody,
What an interesting situation. I know you don’t want any of that typical advice about “working on yourself” and you want specific techniques. There are no techniques to make someone act or behave differently. If there were, someone would be an instant millionaire.
Are you still willing to talk through this though? I’d like to keep the conversation going. Are you not interested in growing and learning about yourself? That’s what dating and relationships are all about, right?
He does sound incredibly socially awkward…at least with you. Instead of figuring out techniques to try and get him to open to you, I personally would be trying to understand his behaviors and whether he is like that with just me, or with everyone, or with just women. Either way, his behaviors are not communicating that he is comfortable around you – I have no clue why, but it is what it is and it’s your job to accept him for who he is.
Yes, he has those beautiful, redeeming qualities that made you attracted to him AND he has these other qualities that make you feel quite rejected. The important part here is that you are able to accept ALL of him.
I imagine you want a love that lasts. You want a nourishing, healthy, alive and peaceful relationship, yes? Well….connection/attraction DOES NOT equal compatibility. Study after study has shown that the part that breaks relationships is how a couple treats each other in their worst moments. When things are stressful, when people are hurt and angry, how they treat each other is what makes or breaks the success of the relationship. So when I guide people through who they are choosing as a partner, I really like to have them look at the worst of someone, look at the worst of themselves, look at the worst parts of them as a couple…and we look at how all of that works – or doesn’t work.
You guys are not even together and you are already so incredibly confused – and rightly so. Do you think that magically if y ou are together and you both profess your feelings for each other, that will all change? Whether he is on the spectrum, thundered or incredibly wounded and emotionally immature – it doesn’t change that this part of him is something you either accept as part of who he is or you walk away. Going into a relationship trying to find “techniques” to get someone to act different, feel different, be different, is already showing you that you are not completely happy, peaceful and open when you are around him. Don’t you think that says something pretty big, especially considering you aren’t even together??
Just some things to think about. I know you are not getting what you came here to get – techniques. The way you describe him, I’m not confident there are any “techniques” out there, as he just may have some personality traits that affect his social abilities. If not, then he is super wounded. Either of those situations will require a TON of work on your end, will put you in a situation where you will have to deal with rejection quite a bit and will bring a lot of drama into your life.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Wow. I’m surprised. What has happened for you? What makes you feel like you want to move on now?
Heidi
I am so so sorry Emma. I know your heart is breaking. You have done everything you possibly can to re-connect and he just isn’t interested. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink – He is not interested in drinking. Everything he has shown you, is telling you that he is not willing to fight for the connection. Your only option now is to do exactly what you have just done. Let him go. It’s so incredibly painful and destructive for you to stay connected to someone who doesn’t want to be present with you and who doesn’t want to work through things WITH you. You have lost your partner.
I really think it’s time to take the next step and create a way to truly separate. I would start planning a way to find separate living spaces and start planning a way to move on with your life without him. This may actually wake him up and cause him to fight for you, because he will see that you are actually going to leave. There is a lot of psychology in this that I won’t go into, but basically he needs to feel the TRUE loss of you, to feel the consequences of his choices. There have been no real consequences up to this point. You have stuck around and been available for him and have been chasing after him. He doesn’t know what it feels like to truly lose you. Sometimes losing someone makes you wake up and fight for the connection. Sometimes it will validate that you truly are done with the relationship. Either way, setting yourself to truly leave and create a separate life will create movement in one direction or the other.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Eutona,
I get it. It’s a common question, especially for people who live in small towns.
First, do you feel clear about dating? What’s your purpose? I’m wondering if maybe you can view dating as a platform to develop some skills instead of looking at it as a way to find your next love. It can really take the pressure off. It’s so easy to get attached to the “end result” of love and miss the entire process. Dating can be a great way to develop all kinds of life skills like how to handle rejection, developing communication skills, learning how to set boundaries, learning about yourself and all your thoughts/judgments/criticisms of the different people that sit in front of you. I have dated many different cultures, sizes and personalities. I purposefully did that, so I could learn about myself, where I’m effective, where I’m limited and to feel all the different feelings that come with dating. This meant that I didn’t necessarily date guys that I knew I would have a future with. I just dated and used it as a way to learn and grown. And boy….did it work! The things I learned are endless and will serve me the rest of my life. If you take this approach, then dating isn’t so difficult. You just go out with all different types of people, mostly likely only once, BUT you get to know yourself REALLY well and you get to practice the new skills you are wanting to develop and strengthen.
I also want to remind you that even though you are in a small town, you just never know. A visitor could come to town and you guys meet. A family member of someone in town, visits and brings a friend with him and you meet that way….who knows! The possibilities are endless!!! Life has a way of presenting opportunities in ways that are far beyond our imagination.
Lastly, I like to encourage people to join communities that have similar interests. It doesn’t matter where they are in the world. Do you love dogs? Find a dog group. Do you love hiking? Traveling? Knitting? Cooking? Painting? Sports? It’s endless. There are groups for every possible thing out there. It doesn’t matter whether it’s coed or just for women, but expanding your community, support and interests, is a great way to fill up your life. Most groups will plan yearly, in person events. You could meet someone that way. You can also go to workshops or seminars on subjects you are interested in. I LOVE LOVE LOVE going to self-help retreats/workshops. I always meet some amazing people.
My point being…don’t worry about meeting someone to fall in love with. Keep your focus on healing, learning and growing and use dating as a platform for that….if you feel ready, of course.
Thoughts?
Heidi
It sounds like you are figuring out the whole wells fargo thing. It may take some time, but my guess is, when you get your money back, it will just the right timing that need that extra cash. I trust in the timing of everything. This is a good faith building practice, isn’t it?
Good job! “Not my problem” is a great mantra to use with Bob. He gets to do things the way he wants and then he gets to deal with the consequences. Not your problem. You are leaving and not investing in this place, so your only job is just to do what he asks and let the rest go. Another good practice of letting go, isn’t it? Seems there might be a theme here 🙂
I hope you enjoyed Belgium and I hope it didn’t rain too much! I love the new ladies you got to meet. Sounds like you might have new buddy to go on walks with. I love that!!!
Heidi
I never said that you outright belittled him. Your actions and beliefs about the role you should play in his life however, is treating him like a child and you are his mother by trying to “protect” him and deciding what is right for him…as if he is not a grown man and doesn’t know what is right for himself. I know this is not how you view it. You believe so much in what you are doing and you believe so much in your love, that you actually do not have any objectivity on how your version of love is having an impact on him and those around you. But like I said earlier, you get to believe your own story and your version of love. As you have already experienced, your version of love pushes everyone away and you actually are alone now – I don’t know any other way that life can tell you that how you love is harming you and others. I hope that at some point, you open yourself up to something different.
Staying stuck costs A LOT of energy. Of course you are tired! You are supposed to be tired, because that is not a way to live. Your system will naturally shut down over time, because it cannot sustain being stuck. The reality is though, you are not in enough pain or tired enough to do anything different. What you are doing isn’t working and it’s draining your life force, but you are not feeling bad enough to shift or change how you are handling everything. So….you get to stay stuck, you get to stay in pain and you get to continue suffering. You are actually strongly bonded to your pain and suffering and that is something I deeply understand. It will take everything from you if you don’t choose something different. I hope that one day you fight for more in your life.
Good luck with everything TavShad! Thank you for being here!
Heidi
Hi Montserrat!
I understand your confusion. Things are going in one direction and then all of a sudden, his behavior changes. It’s confusing isn’t it? It’s so darn easy to get cozy with the predictable and develop a sense of safety. So when the predictable changes, it easily activates a lot of insecurity.
Here is a general rule to go by. Once is just once. 2x is a weak pattern, 3x is a strong pattern. So far, he has not communicated 2 different times, so there is a weak pattern developing. This relationship is still very new, so there really is the aspect of working out all the bugs. AND…you guys haven’t even met, so there are still A LOT of factors to work through before either of you decide if it’s a good fit. I know you guys communicate daily and have a really strong connection, but it DOES NOT take the place of meeting in person. Essentially, all you know about him are snapshots of his life, so I’m hoping you are not investing fully quite yet. I talk with a friend of mine several times a week through an app called marco polo. We basically are sending videos back and forth to each other. This guy was my first love in high school, so we have stayed connected off and on for over 2 decades. The past couple of years, we are able to connect more frequently because of this app. There is nothing romantic between us, we are just friends. He came out to visit his family and included me in his travels, so we got to hang out in person for 4 days. And you know what?? I learned that he is quite draining for me to be around. Never in a million years would I have guessed that from our video conversations. All of this to say….technology just doesn’t give you the full picture of who someone really is and how you 2 mix together in person. So I really want to encourage you to slooooooow down.
I understand your anxiety about what he is behaving like. Long distance relationships are incredibly difficult to develop from ground zero. Trying to get to know someone and grow a relationship in any sort of healthy way is one of the most difficult things to do long distance. So I want to suggest to not read too much into anything quite yet. You guys need to meet in person and find out if you are compatible that way first. In the meantime, I think it’s great that you are asking for what you need from him. He sounds responsive and not defensive and he sounds agreeable. Now, it’s just a matter of seeing if he can follow through…and only time will tell with that.
Thoughts?
Heidi
I don’t want to be a mother I want to be an equal partner, maybe the way of saying it it sounds like that but I’m just ensuring that things are always right. You believe you know what is “right?” How do you know? Nobody knows the future and what is going to happen from one moment to the next, but somehow you know what is “right” for someone else? I can understand that if you were talking about a child – he is a grown man. You don’t want to mother him, yet all you are doing is controlling him and believing that you know what is right for him and he doesn’t. Isn’t that mothering? What you believe you are trying to do by making his life better be deciding what is right for him, is actually belittling him. I imagine this may be one of the reasons he left.
It feels so sad you know Heidi to be in such a situation today and not able to be around the person you love the most. I understand. I have been there a handful of times in my life. It’s hard for sure AND I had to figure out how to get back up onto my feet and forgive and release and open my heart to loving again. All I can tell you is there is a way to do that, but you have to let go and be willing to fight for more in your life – which I understand is something you are not willing to do.
I think it’s time for this conversation to end. I really don’t have any guidance as to how you can get him back. I have all the guidance in the world to help you ease the pain of the loss, to help you grow and learn about yourself and relationships, but it’s just not what you are interested in. It makes me so sad for you, that you have chosen to push all of your friends away, that you have chosen to lose yourself in this guy and you are choosing to suffer instead of fighting for your joy and happiness. I can’t make you choose differently – I can only show you the choices and possibilities you have waiting for you. In honor of what you want, I am going to step back and let you do things your way. I think it’s the best way for you to learn.
Heidi
I understand. It is not just you. The majority of people are VERY frustrated with the dating scene and have been for awhile. My personal opinion is that online dating, being the main way that people meet these days, is what has made it all so complicated. I remember dating before the whole online thing hit the market and it was soooooo much more simple and it was actually fun. Sadly, the majority of people I talk to feel like dating is so darn difficult. Then you add 2 years of Covid, political stress, economic stress and so many other stressors, people are really struggling right now…extra. So you are not alone.
Dating absolutely has complications though. It’s not as simple as I like you, you like me, we should get together. Connection doesn’t equal compatibility. The divorce rate is so high these days because people are choosing partners based on how they feel – the connection. There is very little understanding or knowledge about compatibility, the skills required to stay together in a healthy, vibrant way or how to be discerning. Once those connection chemicals hit the body, so many very important aspects of discernment just fly right on out the window. I know a TON about this process AND it even happens to me. I recently kept giving this guy a chance KNOWING that the red flags I was seeing were legit – but I felt so alive with him and I kept wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt. I knew exactly what I was doing and why AND I did it anyways, hoping I would be wrong. Those connection chemicals are CRAZY STRONG!!!!
I do want to encourage you though. Part of what makes dating so complicated, is a lack of understanding and being able to see behind the presentation someone is giving off. Learning to develop your intuition is very important and learning how to really honor your voice and set yourself up for success, is crucial. You have to be willing to say no – something a lot of people don’t want to do…especially in these challenging times where stress if very high.
All this to say…you are not alone AND dating is an INCREDIBLE way to get to know yourself and develop a lot of very important relationship skills – like setting boundaries, like communication, like learning how to be authentic, like learning when to lead and when to follow, like learning how to express your opinions and soooooo much more! I view dating like a school. It’s a platform to learn and practice everything you need to do for a healthy relationship. Thoughts on this?
Heidi
