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Part of the reason i enjoy watching shows together is because we can explore the emotions of the characters, and we get to know each other deeper by our own responses to the characters and their experiences. There is very little comic relief in GoT. It’s all about people trying to control each other with whatever they’ve got. I totally get why you watched and how you watched it. Yes, everything you said about it, is very true! I guess I’ve experienced enough of that kind of stuff in real life, I don’t want to see it on tv. It’s part of me protecting my light, by not watching stuff like that on tv. But I love how you experienced it. I heard about the prequel coming out, but haven’t heard anyone talking about it. Do you like it? Is it as engaging as GoT?
That random conversation with that stranger sounds really cool! Him being a police officer would mean he is much more cozy dealing with the wide range of personalities out there. I’m not very good at doing stuff like that. I have a friend who is similar to JB. She LOVES LOVES LOVES talking to everyone. She lives in San Francisco, so there are a WIDE range of personalities out there. I always enjoy watching her interactions, but love not having to be part of them. LOL
So, i test my feelings frequently, and i ask myself if i’m feeling this towards HIM or towards something that he has offered me. And if it IS something that he’s bringing into my life — what is it? If he stops offering it to me, will my feelings for him stop? Or change? So far, i haven’t been able to identify tangibly what it is that he’s offering me! I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you ask yourself these questions! Good job! I coach everyone to ask these questions so they are able to take a step back and really observe the source and the layers involved in their feelings. Many times, it comes from a wounded place and NOT a clear place.
I think it’s quite simple what he brings to you…he offers you a version of your SELF that you love to feel and that he can activate in you – in various ways. It’s not one specific thing, but many things, but whenever someone says “I love you” and even deeper meaning is “I love who I am when I am with you.” That’s a general way of saying it, of course. All those other women who claimed they loved him so quickly, that’s not really love anyways. Also, a core need for women in relationships is to feel safe – and when they feel emotionally and physically safe with a man, love is able to pour out and be limitless. I know you feel this way with him.
i don’t want ANY thoughts about ANYthing to cause ANY kind of stress in me! For this to happen, i need to know my kids will be ok – if i’m gone and i never come back. This isn’t unlike preparing for death! 🙂 SO sometimes, i don’t know if i’m getting ready for a wild life with a man or if i’m just getting ready to leave this life altogether. Either ways, i have to be ready… right?! 🙂 This is really interesting. Help me understand this more. I’m wondering why your adventure needs to be this way. I’m wondering why you think you need to be ready to leave everything behind. I’m wondering why your adventure can’t involve your children or any other part of your life. And with this adventure you have in your mind, what exactly does that mean? What does it mean to go on an adventure and possibly never return? Where do you go? What EXACTLY are you imagining you have to be ready for? And what makes you think that JB or any other man wants to go on that kind of adventure where you leave everything behind?
I so appreciate all your raw and unedited thoughts! I’m honored you feel safe here to share all of this. I know how closely you hold your vulnerability. Thank you!
Heidi
This is where I’m a bit confused. This IS a template: “I need your help [with something tied to his skills] would be a basic starting template. So I’m not sure what more you are looking for. You can ask for advice, you can ask for help with something he knows how to do (skills), you can ask for help moving furniture, you can ask for his ideas (like where a good restaurant is) etc. Asking for help with anything is the starting point. It’s pretty difficult to come up with a template for after that because he could have a variety of responses, so this is where you understanding the core concept will help you in knowing how to respond. The idea is to get him connected and talking again through asking for help. I know in the example, the woman didn’t reveal exactly what she was asking for help with, but I know plenty of women who shared very quickly what they wanted help with and it still worked.
Can you help me understand how this template does not work for you? Or what other templates you are looking for?
This is great that you guys were able to talk. At least you know now why he didn’t respond. But it sounds like friendship is the path and that you are both agreeing to that, yes?
Heidi
I feel your deep hurt and fear about all of this. I know that you sooooo badly want to just reconnect and source the love that you feel you have for him. Being stubborn and not wanting to move on doesn’t make you a “bad” person. It makes you a wounded person, just like the rest of us. We are all wounded in some way or another and those wounds have pretty big impacts on how we feel, the decisions we make, the people we invest in and most of all – how we feel about ourselves.
Your wounds are soooo big that you are not able to see past the idea that you are nothing without this guy and you are losing everything. This is not true. You are so much more than this guy and the past year is showing you that. You have your body, your health, your mind, your talents, your passions, your work, your home, your family, your ideas, your strengths – all of those things exist WITHOUT this guy.
This is something that most people don’t really get and they reject the idea of it, but that’s okay. Just because you feel love, it doesn’t mean it’s healthy, clear or positive. Many times, the love we feel about someone is actually being sourced by our traumas, hurts, fears, addictions, insecurities and so much more. So the love we feel is actually a very unhealthy love. I’ve done that many many times! I’ve loved different guys that were not healthy or available. I wouldn’t give up either. I would keep doing everything I could to keep that love alive because it felt so much better to feel that, than to face my life without it. It’s a damaging kind of love and that’s what people are trying to tell you – that’s what I keep trying to tell you. The love you feel is damaging to you and to him. I know this because the love you feel is keeping you connected to a man that doesn’t want to be with you. You are identified with this “love” so intensely that you have lost who you are – hence feeling like you are losing everything if you can’t have him. This “love” you feel is limiting you – you cannot live your life without it. This “love” you feel is an addiction. This “love” you feel is about YOU and has nothing to do with him – meaning all you are focused on is getting what YOU want and it doesn’t matter what he wants.
Everyone around you is trying to tell to let go because there is NO WAY this guy will ever want to step back into this kind of love that will smother him. No guy wants to be the entire world for his woman. No guy wants a woman who doesn’t know herself without him. Any guy who does want that, is a guy who is only interested in controlling a woman and being served by her.
Like I’ve said before TavShad…you can keep being stubborn and miserable or you can decide you want for your life. Your life is your design, so you get to focus on whatever it is that you want. This guy is not coming back to you and it’s not because you are a bad person, it’s because you aren’t the right person for him. I know you feel differently, but that doesn’t matter does it? What matters is that he isn’t interested and is not coming back, so you get to keep trying and hoping and being miserable – or you can DECIDE to move on and work through that process and open yourself to new experiences. I know it will hurt, but it won’t be any worse than the hurt you are feeling now by not having him.
Thoughts?
One day, i would like to meet JB’s subconscious in person. 😀 You meet his subconscious every single day. It’s guesstimated that approximately 80% of how we go through our day is sourced, organized and guided by our subconscious. That’s a lot!
It’s such an interesting dynamic between the both of you. How often do you visit him? Does he live far from you? What do you guys do when you visit? I love playing the “how well do you think you know me” game. It’s so fun! Did you watch Game of Thrones? I’d be quite surprised if you did as it doesn’t seem like the kind of show you would spend your energy investing in. I never watched it. From the bits and pieces I heard from EVERYONE, it sounded way too gory and abusive for my taste. Everyone LOVED it though!
It sounds like you are exposing a lot of your deeper feelings for him – how you are describing what you write is definitely not a friendly vibe and is quite romantic. He seems to be receiving it too!
I want to flip to the end of the book too and see what the next chapters hold for both of you! I love everything you are sharing!
Heidi
Oh this is great news!!!! I’m soooo excited that you get to go home. It’s going to feel soooooo good for you! Enjoy Geneva!!!
Heidi
Gooood job! You are doing an amazing job at slowly giving needs permission to exist and fighting for them. One step at a time.
Since you haven’t hear back about the living situation and talking to the kids, I would recommend just giving him a date. You can say something like “Since communication between us is quite limited and you haven’t responded to my requests about creating some clarity about our living situation and the kids, I’m going to go ahead and move forward with the process. I have asked the kids to reserve Friday at 7pm for me and I’m going to share that you and I are heading in different directions now. I ask that you please move out by the end of the week. I have already contacted a lawyer and will be meeting with them next week. This is not what I want, but I also cannot stand being ignored, disregarded or rejected any longer. I’m losing my nerve, so it’s time for me to take some action.” Just a thought.
I think that really creating a reality check for him will be good! He has stayed in his cozy little cocoon without having to change a thing, so you being clear that you are moving forward with separation, may actually cause him to step up.
What was his reaction to not having any food ready?
Heidi
I understand he is afraid and stressed. I understand he doesn’t want to talk to the kids or his parents about anything.
I want to ask you though – what about you? It seems like you are just doing whatever he wants. It’s his plan, it’s his pace, it’s his needs and you are just going to have to go along with it – all the while you are dealing with an incredible amount of rejection – because he is too afraid to step into his choice. Maybe it’s time to ask him to leave and give a deadline. Maybe it’s time YOU talk to the kids and let them know dad is leaving. Thoughts?
Whatever issues we may have can be resolved should we communicate about it. So you think that if you guys could talk about his cheating, his incredibly rejecting behavior and his lack of care and respect towards you can all be solved?? I’m going to burst your bubble here. He has ruined every level of trust and safety that could exist between you guys. Talking about it not going to solve this. I know you guys have worked through everything before and that communication was always much better, but this is different. He needs help. You need help. This relationship has been torn to shreds and needs an incredible amount of repair. Even if he apologizes and decides to start connecting again, that isn’t going to change that he has cheated and blames you, it isn’t going to change that you are not going to inherently feel emotionally safe with him, that isn’t going to change his fears and anxiety about the future and how he handles them.
So being that he is just going to continue to drag his feet and not face anything and avoid really stepping into his choices, it’s time for you to do this. It’s time for YOU to step into and own what you need and find a way to create it. I know what you want is him to start communicating and trying to fix things, but that isn’t going to happen and it’s possible it never will. So for now, finding a way to get him out, letting your family know what’s happening and starting to prepare for separation – this is going to require him to face what he wants to avoid…and you giving him all the power to do whatever he feels like doing, without consideration of you – is just enabling and supporting him.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Oh I get it why the teacher tore up his homework. It sounds like it might have been helpful considering he needed some help staying the course.
I’m happy you feel comfortable to share all of this with me! It’s beautiful and I feel your heart all over the place as you are writing about him. I love that you mail him those letters. Such a rare thing! I get it though…there is a thing about writing vs. typing. I prefer writing as well. I’m sure he appreciates getting letters in the mail from you. Has he ever written back?
Retiring is always incredibly stressful, moreso for men. He will cross that threshold, fear in hand, and he will figure it out. I really am so curious how he views your relationship. Obviously he has touched a very deep part of you, but I wonder how you have impacted his life and how he feels and thinks about you. I wish I could ask him! I suppose all will be revealed over time. The relationship will either continue or you will go separate ways…like all relationships. I hope you guys get to continue. I would never wish that kind of pain on you to have to deal with the loss of him.
I love how honest you are with yourself about your marriage and the reasons for it. You were doing everything you could to survive, so of course you got married to an American. Why not? People get married for all different kinds of reasons. You should read this book by Elizabeth Gilbert. It was a really fun read. It’s her diatribe so to speak, about marriage. What it means, cultural influences, the history of it – and it’s wound into her personal story. I learned a TON actually, about all the different views on marriage. https://www.amazon.com/sk=gottman+man%27s+guide+to+women&adgrpid=1338106214769239&hvadid=83631709367991&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=109874&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83631980570910%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=20371_10303525&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_1uxpqs12xp_e
Keep sharing!
Heidi
No problem Jadene! I will respect and honor that you are not really interested in diving into the deeper aspects of things and that you are still focused on wanting those templates.
I need a bit more clarity though. If I am understanding correctly, you are wanting to know what to say when a guy pulls away. Being that each situation and person is different, I’m not sure how to guide you other than the HI core concept of asking for help. What you ask for help with and how you say it, will depend on the situation and what you are asking for help. There are a variety of ways to go about it. For example, in scenario 1 where she did not tell him what she wanted, that is an approach that sometimes doesn’t work because the guy KNOWS and can sense the manipulation and won’t have anything to do with it. AND..that approach has also worked as well. So it’s more about reading the situation and the person.
So I guess I’m not entirely clear how to help you create a template other than telling you that you ask for help with something to start the process. As you have learned, your 3rd attempt of trying to re-connect with this guy didn’t work and my guess is, it’s because you put something too personal in there and what you were asking for was beyond what he was willing to share. Also, it’s important that you use this technique more sparingly. In my opinion, men are highly underestimated. They can sense and feel when a woman is using a “technique” with them and when a woman is trying to get something from him. So using it sparingly will make it more powerful.
I’m not sure if any of what I am saying is helpful. Guide me a little more as to how this template idea of your works in your mind. Can you give me examples of what you mean? Like I previously said, what’s more important is understanding the concept and then you can make it your own by using it however you want. The energy behind what you say is more important that what you say…ALWAYS.
Heidi
This is a good start of course, but as you did with a therapist, which is not available to me where I live and under my current circumstances, and which has not helped me much in the past anyway Therapists are available online, so it doesn’t matter where you live anymore. My mom, who is a brilliant coach btw and used to be a therapist, works with people all around the world over zoom or facetime. I understand if you don’t have the finances of course. I’m sorry it didn’t help you much in the past. I’d like to encourage you to keep an open mind. I have been to MANY different healers/therapists/coaches over the past 30 years and they are all soooo different – and some were quite horrible actually, hence only 1 visit. Everyone is different and I GUARANTEE you there are experts out there who would be able to help you in an effective, powerful way. Keep your heart and mind open to the possibility of having someone help you through this in a deeper way. Of course, we are willing to work with you here for as long as you are willing, but this is still a very limited platform.
feel like you may be misunderstanding my approach to this course, thinking that I approach relationships like I do personal education and self development. This is where things can get a bit confusing. Remember how I said that understanding the language of the subconscious can help you have a deeper view of what someone is presenting? Well, my sense about what you are wanting by creating a “template” is much deeper than what you are actually connected to. Your subconscious will reveal its true intent through the words you use, the tone of voice, body language and belief systems. So what you THINK you want these templates for is actually a different story than what your subconscious languaging is telling me. For example, let’s look at these statements you used: get the assistance I know will help me master the HI material as a personal development self-care action that gives me hope in my life. and I want to master the HI material for when I choose to enter a relationship again, and I signed up for this coaching program after buying the book in order to drill down and get pro assistance working out some phrasing for men who pull away, as I have had this happen countless times
So let’s break this down a bit more: You want a solution to a problem. You THINK you want this solution for self-development and growth, but underneath that desire (which is a true conscious desire) is your subconscious wanting a formula to influence the outcome of a situation. You want to “master” a technique so that you don’t have to deal with the disappearing act that has frequently shown up in your life. So the subconscious is wanting this information for means of control so you can avoid getting hurt. Also, your conscious believes “you can become the woman you were meant to be” by having a marriage and devotion. Your conscious believes “there’s nothing wrong with wanting a man” but this statement shows your subconscious believes you are not whole or complete until you have marriage and devotion from a man.
Listen, I’ve come from an incredible amount of abuse and neglect and everything else you can’t even imagine. The way I healed was to dive deep into my psyche and really connect to the truth and source of my feelings/beliefs/habits/attractions etc. So as I am saying all of this to you, it is me recognizing words/beliefs/programs/desires that are common with people who grew up with abuse/neglect/trauma. I know you may not connect to anything I am saying here and that wouldn’t be unusual. This is where a therapist is much more effective because they could walk you down that road. Only having these computer keys to explain how and why I am “seeing” what I am seeing, is incredibly difficult. I don’t expect you to just take my word for it either. I just want to invite you to explore the ideas and sit with them for a bit. Your conscious has the VERY BEST of intentions, but your subconscious is driving you towards “solutions” for your pain that actually are not about self growth and healing – these solutions are just “bandaids” for the pain you carry.
I’ll just be quite simple here about the HI technique. All it is, is speaking to the higher self / best self of another person. That’s it. You are activating the side of a human being that loves to “help” – it’s not just for men, it’s for ALL people. In relationships, men need to feel appreciated, women need to feel safe – as foundational qualities. So the HI technique is just creating an opportunity for you to get to appreciate the kindness and generous spirit of a man. He feels like he gets to help you out of struggle and in return you appreciate him and help him feel his value in your life. You are wanting a “template” so that you can try and do this the “right” way, when there is no such thing. You may “master” this material all you want, but it will not change that you repeatedly abandon yourself to stay connected to men who are not treating you the way you deserve. So again, I go back to this simple concept….the men that are disappearing are NOT the kind of men you want in your life anyways, so why spend all this energy to master a technique that may or may not help you keep a guy around a little longer. Personally, I would rather know sooner than later, that a guy is a runner and definitely don’t want to use any kind of technique to keep a guy around a little longer that essentially doesn’t have the skills for a relationship in the first place. What you REALLY want out of all of this, is to be loved and chosen and fought for…just as you are. You want a guy who sees you, knows you and all your quirks, limitations, fears etc. and deeply loves you still. You want a guy who has the ability to stay WITH you, adores you, loves to be with you, loves how he gets to feel when you spend time together….all of these things are qualities that NONE of those guys you mentioned have. A guy like this, is going to be inspired by you, just for who you are and NOT because of any type of technique or template you have mastered. What you need to master is understanding how to source yourself and how to source the relationship to keep it alive and nourished and growing. As long as he contributes to that kind of formula, then you guys can flourish. A relationship is 3 parts…you, him, the relationship you create together. You take care of you, he takes care of himself and then you both nourish and create the connection/relationship.
Okay…I’ve said a lot here, so I’ll stop and see where you would like to go next and what some of your thoughts are.
I want to suggest this book: The man’s guide to women. I know it’s a book for men, but I love this book for women as well, as it’s simple, clear and will help you understand what your basic needs are from a man, how we operate differently all kinds of ways to support connecting honestly and effectively.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gottman+man%27s+guide+to+women&adgrpid=1338106214769239&hvadid=83631709367991&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=109874&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83631980570910%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=20371_10303525&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_1uxpqs12xp_eLastly, I also just want to say that although I am an expert on the language of the subconscious, I realize that whatever I am sensing here is extremely limited and I could be totally wrong. I do not know you and I realize I am looking at a tiny sliver of information and drawing some pretty big ideas from it. I trust that we can just keep talking and you will continue to share your truth and more will be revealed over time, as long as you are here.
Heidi
I no longer want this man. I want to master the HI material for when I choose to enter a relationship again, but I also now want to focus on getting help in this forum figuring out how to heal my attraction to the wrong kind of men, those who pull away.\ Healing your attraction to the “wrong” kind of means understanding the dynamics of your attraction. When I first help someone start to dissect their “attraction” I help them first begin by understanding that attraction can come from a wounded/unresolved energy and it can come from clearer energy. They both can feel EXACTLY the same to the untrained person (which is the majority of the population). Understanding the VERY subtle differences requires an incredibly deep knowledge of yourself, your subconscious signals/patterns and using a lot of your intuition, accountability and having systems set up for your success. Even with all of those things, it will not guarantee anything long-term. So ultimately, love is a risk and that means that even with setting yourself up for the highest chance of long-term success, it still might not work.
To begin, it’s about understanding your woundedness and the baggage you carry around. For example, I had a father who was a narcissist and emotionally unavailable. So who were the guys I was attracted to? The bad-boy type. I KNEW exactly what I was stepping into and that nothing would ever come of these guys I chased after, but I couldn’t change my level of attraction until I worked on my beliefs/programs/limitations around love and connection with a man. One way I shifted this pattern was with this guy I dated for a bit in college. I was working with a therapist at the time, so she was able to help me through this, because I couldn’t have done it on my own. This guy was sooooo sweet, available, attentive and treated me like gold. I had dated “nice guys” many times before and my pattern was 2 weeks…I would have this strong attraction to a nice guy for 2 weeks and then all of a sudden, my system would start to sabotage…it was like clockwork. I stopped liking them, I started to find things wrong with them, I couldn’t stand them anymore…so I would end it. So with this college guy, my therapist had me stay in it so that part of me that would sabotage, could come up and we could actively work with it. HOLY SMOKES was it incredibly hard. I remember walking into his house and he would get a big smile and be excited to see me and I would literally cringe with every cell of my body – I hated that he was so nice. I had no respect for that kind of “weakness.” Needless to say…my therapist and I worked a lot on reprogramming my story about love, my story about nice guys, my story about the bad boy types and my story around my father. Then one day….it was like magic…I walked into his house and he did his usual “excited to see me” greeting and I felt butterflies…good butterflies. I couldn’t believe it!!!! A much longer story short, we dated for a while longer and although I still ended it, it wasn’t because he was a nice guy, it was for more appropriate reasons that we just were not a match anymore. This college guy experience shifted everything for me. From that point on, I could feel my system wanting to go back to the bad boys out of habit, but I was strong enough now to say no, that’s not what I am going to do anymore. Eventually, the bad boy kind of guy became completely unattractive to me and it no longer was an issue. Does this help explain a little bit how attraction can be sourced from woundedness/unresolved baggage etc.?
What is the process you recommend me to begin to heal this deeper issue in myself? Generally speaking, there are 2 things that need to happen. First, understanding and dissecting your patterns/attraction and working on healing the wounded parts of yourself that source attraction to unhealthy men. Second, educate yourself on understanding the subconscious signals always happening around us. Because I know myself on VERY deep levels, I have an understanding of the language of the subconscious and how it expresses itself. So when I go on dates, I am able to pick up on and understand most of what is not being said – and this has helped me know who to steer away from sooner than later and who is okay to invite in a little closer. There is no way for you to truly understand the language of the subconscious without experiencing it within yourself first and foremost – so the more you know yourself, the easier it is to understand others. The truth is though, you can still be fooled. There is no way to know if someone is going to bail and ghost – until they do – no matter how many signs you are able to pick up on about someone and who they are behind the “mask” they present. I also have strongly developed my intuition. This sense is incredibly powerful and more useful than other aspect I use in dating.
This is a lot to take in, so let me know your thoughts and we can go from here.
Heidi
I’m going to go ahead and respond to this in the other thread so we can keep this conversation all in one place.
I’ve decided to stay single for a while, so that I can master the HI process before I enter any new relations with men again. So let’s talk about this a little more. You are wondering why men end up pulling away from you. I’m obviously just making an observation from very little information, but from our short interactions here, I sense a very strong need to control and wanting to only deal with 1 aspect, instead of looking at all the layers influencing your situation. You want “formulas” to try and “fix” something you believe is broken. This kind of mentality can easily push a man away who is not wanting to be put into any kind of formula or box to be understood or known. If this is how you want to approach men, my guess is, this is also how you like to approach your life in general – organized, predictable, stable, solving problems, more black and white kind of thinking. This is just a sense I am getting and could be completely off. What are your thoughts on this?
Would you be willing to approach this differently? What if you didn’t create a template that you could “master” and instead connected more with the feeling of this approach? If you connect to WHY this approach can work, then when and if you want to use this technique, it will come from your heart, it will have your own personal flavor to the words and energy you use IN THE MOMENT and it will be much more powerful that way.
If this doesn’t interest you, then I accept you are not interested and will happily help you create a template.
Heidi
Hi Vino! Yes, I’m still here 🙂 I really love this job – even after 4 years!
Wow…you have a job! It sounds like a lot to deal with, but on the other hand, being that you are not too invested emotionally, you are able to come home and be filled up and find your balance by being with your kids and JB.
So it sounds like you and JB are still just friends and that it’s okay for you. Am I understanding correctly? I know how important he is to you and it sounds like he has a wonderful place in your heart that will always be there. I hope it’s the same for him as well. What do you do with the letters that you write him? I don’t understand why his teacher ripped up his homework assignment. He did what they asked, right?
How are your kids doing? Did your son (i think) end up going to Egypt?
heidi
Oh wow! I didn’t know that you had actual evidence and I didn’t know that he was making excuses and blaming you. He is incredibly fragile. No wonder he is shutting down and running away and not wanting to face anything. He is that type that has VERY strong childish energy that thinks if he isn’t looking at it or paying attention to it, then it’s not there.
I am so so sorry Emma. This is heartbreaking. What are you doing to help yourself?? Are you willing to get a therapist or coach that specializes in all of this? Has he officially moved out yet? What are you going to tell your kids?
Heidi
