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what a twisted selfish feeling! lol 🙂 I suppose i’m in love with all the good effects that JB is having on me! lol 🙂 It is twisted isn’t it? But if you really think about it, that’s true about everything. Even the purest act of kindness comes about because the person wants to feel good! If it felt “bad” or even felt like “nothing” to do a kind act, people wouldn’t do it! We are always seeking ways to feel good!
And in order for me to go ALL IN, i have to have ALL of myself. Right now, my kids still need some me. I also find my financial situation to be a bit of an anchor. I need to be making a LOT MORE money than i’m making right now, so i don’t have to depend on some random entity for my financial security. Either that, or i have to figure out how to not need any money at all! 🙂 This thought process has a similar energy to it than “I’ll finally be ready once I lose all my weight or I will be ready for a relationship once I have __________ figured out. I like to encourage people NOT to think this way. It’s creating a limitation and condition for you to be “ready” and the truth is, love will show up whenever it shows up, regardless of your financial status or any other status for that matter. It’s different if you JUST got divorced or you JUST lost someone you love. Those kinds of things require time to heal. Financial status is one of those things that does not qualify you to have love or not. It reminds me of that parable – I’m soooo going to butcher this – but it’s something like a person keeps praying to God for help and 3 different times, help was offered but it wasn’t in the form the person was thinking so he didn’t take the help. Then God told him “I tried to send you help but you kept saying no!” Do you know this story??? I can’t remember the details obviously…just the concept. It feels like this idea you have about becoming more financially abundant has to show up in some sort of way – when you could end up meeting a billionaire and then you don’t have to worry about. Why can’t love be the source of your financial stability?
It’s my dependence on others and others’ dependence on me that I want to leave behind. What’s wrong with being dependent? I’m wondering what this means to you. I’m 48 and still depend on my mom for a lot of things – and vice versa. We are both fully capable of taking care of ourselves, but we still CHOOSE to need each other – because we are a team in this life. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. Your kids will ALWAYS need their mother emotionally, spiritually, energetically and maybe even physically. I had 5 surgeries this past year and had to depend on my mom to come help me every single evening. I suppose I am incredibly grateful that I get to depend on my amazing mother to be with me through this life.
i need to be my own insurance so nobody else can dictate where I spend my money! It’s a lot riskier to live your own way, but SO MUCH less frustrating, because you don’t have to deal with anybody else’s rules. This is the kind of nonsense that I want to leave behind! I get it. It’s your sovereignty. Wouldn’t you say it’s possible to be sovereign in a relationship, even if your partner is providing you with the money? What if you were with the kind of guy who just gave freely to you…no strings attached, no questions, no nothing about how you spend your money. Is that not possible?
Heidi
He’s obviously into me and attracted to me physically, intellectually, and sexually, but he said he isn’t feeling emotional connection/romantic feelings anymore towards me like he was at first. I’m a little confused. How is he attracted to you on all those levels but then doesn’t have romantic feelings for you? Do you mean that he is good with a FWB type of situation and doesn’t really see you as a long term partner? It doesn’t sound like he is connected sexually to YOU in particular and that he easily falls into a pattern of reaching the “goal” and not thinking much about the process.
question about this is what is the frequency and what sorts of favors would I ask this particular guy The frequency varies according to the kind of connection you have. Being that he is more of a friend, asking these kinds of favors every once in a while is better. The smaller favors are not that impactful/time consuming nor threatening. So you can ask for the small favors more frequently, like a few times per month – and see what his response is. Going out on a 4 wheeler excursion is great! He already offered and it’s something that is fun for him as well. You can phrase it something like “Hey…you once offered this adventure. I’ve really been wanting to go see more of this area and you would be the perfect person to show me things I know I would probably miss. Are you up for that tour soon? The firepit and bobcat thing are BIG requests. Maybe pick one? I would get a feel for him first and see if those are the kind of projects he would know how to do or even want to do. You can fish around with saying something like “Ya…I looked up the cost to rent a bobcat to make my berm and swale sets better. Do you have any ideas that I might not be thinking about? The guy said the bobcat is easy to run and work – so I’m sure I can figure it out. Do you know how? Would you be willing to teach me?” Maybe that will draw him into helping you even more.
Talking about your future together and “planting seeds” can be a bit tricky with a guy who doesn’t see himself with you. It already happened though when you guys talked about reforesting, right? So I would suggest talking about those kinds of projects. He doesn’t seem to be scared of those. It feels like he would enjoy talking about the future with you as long as it isn’t about a relationship or romance. At least not yet. Keeping it more neutral is good! You guys can plan things together that you both love and are passionate about and keep building the friendship.
The IOU signal I would suggest to stay away from with this guy…for now. It’s more about relationship talk where the other signals are not. The other signals are more indirect and about building connection and experience together, but the IOU signal is more direct and about building the relationship specifically. You guys aren’t there yet.
I gotta say…if those were the reasons he lost romantic interest in you, I’m not sure this guy is for you anyways. The right guy will have NOTHING standing in the way of being with you (within reason of course). There is a guy/s that will not have anything blocking him from wanting to talk to every single day and wanting to explore life with you. I have more of a sense that whatever this guy’s block is, it’s there for a good reason – whether it’s saving you from a lot of drama that you have no clue about with him or whether you just simply are not a good match for him – or it’s something from his past that doesn’t allow him to truly be intimate and vulnerable with someone – that block is serving a purpose. I have a tendency to trust those blocks and honor their presence and not try and change anything – nor try and figure out what it’s about…as it’s possible I’d be opening pandora’s box – something I have no interest in doing. Just something to think about.
Was this helpful? Is this what you were looking for?
Heidi
I want templates that help me break down and create my own HI signal statements. This isn’t possible because whatever HI statements you choose to go with, will depend on the guy you are dating. They are tailor-made for his skills, his capabilities, your current situation and what you need help with and the type of connection you both have. That why this is the template you use:
“May I please ask your advice really quick? It won’t take long.” (TEMPLATE: Polite request for his advice, engage core need to be hero.)
Ask for advice, ask for help carrying groceries up, ask for help with something he specializes in, ask for help with picking out a restaurant to go to with a friend, ask for help moving furniture, ask for help fixing something – there are soooo many options – and again will depend on who the guy is. The concept is involving him in your life and activating his helper side and then appreciating his efforts. It sounds like the reforesting thing is a great opportunity to really allow him to teach you and show you what he knows, so it’s naturally activating this energy in him. Does this help or am I still missing what it is that you want?
It sounds like he is connecting with you, but not necessarily feeling romantic towards you. Did he happen to mention what was missing? Him not feeling fireworks in the bedroom could have to do with A LOT of different things. Is he pretty much saying he just isn’t attracted to you or is he aware of any other reasons the block may be there?
I love how you said no to his invitation and I love how you described feeling feminine. What a wonderful moment for you!
Heidi
Hi Kimberly.
Welcome! Wow! this is a pretty intense situation. I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this.
Have you ever sat down with him and really talked about your feelings? You are feeling a rift and that needs to be addressed and talked about. Have you told him about how you feel about him driving right past you and how you would love it if he picked you up? I imagine he is so used to you being independent and taking care of yourself, that he doesn’t view you as needing “help.” I also imagine that having both of you in the car would be quite uncomfortable since you guys don’t get along. It’s time to fight for your relationship. What kinds of things are you guys doing to connect with each other? Sex? Date nights? Intimate moments? Are you guys playing together at all?
Having her in your house is incredibly stressful and one way to resolve that is to make a plan for her exit date. Her parents have passed and now your BF is her new caretaker. As long as he is in agreement to play that role, things will just continue to get quite messy, so it’s important that you both work together to create a boundary with her. I have no doubt she would stay there forever if he let her, so if he wants to keep your relationship working, he needs to set a boundary with her, or he will lose you.
Thoughts?
Heidi
You are supposed to be tired. The way you live your life, you have poured every ounce of your being into this fantasy about you and him. Being tired is good. Being tired helps you to want to give up on fighting for him and fighting everyone who is telling you what you don’t want to hear. Being tired puts you more in a state of surrender – so this is the good side of being tired. I have been there many times like this. Each time, it has helped me to shift into a different direction.
I can only do so much here in this forum. The best I can do is offer you some ideas of books to read, send videos etc. YOU are going to have to make a choice to fight for your life, every single day. You are worth it though. You joy, your happiness, your love – none of that is gone. It all lives within you every single day. Now you have to connect to feeling it yourself, without the idea of him being your source.
Here is just a place to start. Let me know your thoughts on these videos and what worked for you and what you didn’t resonate with.
Heidi
Oh Emma! My heart goes out to you. This has to be the worst heartache you have ever had to deal with.
I maybe strong mentally but too emotional. I think your mental strength – as you define it – is causing you an incredible amount of pain. You are not dealing with the consequences of living with the man you love, who is constantly rejecting you. It builds and builds and builds because you aren’t processing anything. You are just holding everything in and trying to be “strong” by only supporting his needs and not your own. Now you are crossing a threshold where you are experiencing the consequences physically. You have broken a glass and now you have chest pain. I’m glad it’s gone, but I seriously urge you to get that looked at immediately. You are under more stress than you realize and your heart is telling you that. You have got to change your stress level otherwise the physical consequences will get worse – they always do.
I realize the house represents everything of you BOTH together, which is broken now – and he isn’t willing to repair that. You are in an incredible battle Emma which is why I keep urging you to get some help. You need to have someone who is an expert with divorce to guide you and help you process all that is happening. You need someone to help bring some objectivity into your situation and help you strengthen your self-love so you can start to make decisions that support you. You ARE really pushing your limits now, hence breaking the glass and now your heart. These are symptoms that hopefully get your attention that you are NOT heading in a good direction. You need to support yourself much better. What are you willing to do? You have just entered the danger zone, so what are you going to do about that? He isn’t going to change, so this is 100% on you to take care of yourself. What are you going to do to support yourself better?
Heidi
Heidi
Part of the reason i enjoy watching shows together is because we can explore the emotions of the characters, and we get to know each other deeper by our own responses to the characters and their experiences. There is very little comic relief in GoT. It’s all about people trying to control each other with whatever they’ve got. I totally get why you watched and how you watched it. Yes, everything you said about it, is very true! I guess I’ve experienced enough of that kind of stuff in real life, I don’t want to see it on tv. It’s part of me protecting my light, by not watching stuff like that on tv. But I love how you experienced it. I heard about the prequel coming out, but haven’t heard anyone talking about it. Do you like it? Is it as engaging as GoT?
That random conversation with that stranger sounds really cool! Him being a police officer would mean he is much more cozy dealing with the wide range of personalities out there. I’m not very good at doing stuff like that. I have a friend who is similar to JB. She LOVES LOVES LOVES talking to everyone. She lives in San Francisco, so there are a WIDE range of personalities out there. I always enjoy watching her interactions, but love not having to be part of them. LOL
So, i test my feelings frequently, and i ask myself if i’m feeling this towards HIM or towards something that he has offered me. And if it IS something that he’s bringing into my life — what is it? If he stops offering it to me, will my feelings for him stop? Or change? So far, i haven’t been able to identify tangibly what it is that he’s offering me! I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you ask yourself these questions! Good job! I coach everyone to ask these questions so they are able to take a step back and really observe the source and the layers involved in their feelings. Many times, it comes from a wounded place and NOT a clear place.
I think it’s quite simple what he brings to you…he offers you a version of your SELF that you love to feel and that he can activate in you – in various ways. It’s not one specific thing, but many things, but whenever someone says “I love you” and even deeper meaning is “I love who I am when I am with you.” That’s a general way of saying it, of course. All those other women who claimed they loved him so quickly, that’s not really love anyways. Also, a core need for women in relationships is to feel safe – and when they feel emotionally and physically safe with a man, love is able to pour out and be limitless. I know you feel this way with him.
i don’t want ANY thoughts about ANYthing to cause ANY kind of stress in me! For this to happen, i need to know my kids will be ok – if i’m gone and i never come back. This isn’t unlike preparing for death! 🙂 SO sometimes, i don’t know if i’m getting ready for a wild life with a man or if i’m just getting ready to leave this life altogether. Either ways, i have to be ready… right?! 🙂 This is really interesting. Help me understand this more. I’m wondering why your adventure needs to be this way. I’m wondering why you think you need to be ready to leave everything behind. I’m wondering why your adventure can’t involve your children or any other part of your life. And with this adventure you have in your mind, what exactly does that mean? What does it mean to go on an adventure and possibly never return? Where do you go? What EXACTLY are you imagining you have to be ready for? And what makes you think that JB or any other man wants to go on that kind of adventure where you leave everything behind?
I so appreciate all your raw and unedited thoughts! I’m honored you feel safe here to share all of this. I know how closely you hold your vulnerability. Thank you!
Heidi
This is where I’m a bit confused. This IS a template: “I need your help [with something tied to his skills] would be a basic starting template. So I’m not sure what more you are looking for. You can ask for advice, you can ask for help with something he knows how to do (skills), you can ask for help moving furniture, you can ask for his ideas (like where a good restaurant is) etc. Asking for help with anything is the starting point. It’s pretty difficult to come up with a template for after that because he could have a variety of responses, so this is where you understanding the core concept will help you in knowing how to respond. The idea is to get him connected and talking again through asking for help. I know in the example, the woman didn’t reveal exactly what she was asking for help with, but I know plenty of women who shared very quickly what they wanted help with and it still worked.
Can you help me understand how this template does not work for you? Or what other templates you are looking for?
This is great that you guys were able to talk. At least you know now why he didn’t respond. But it sounds like friendship is the path and that you are both agreeing to that, yes?
Heidi
I feel your deep hurt and fear about all of this. I know that you sooooo badly want to just reconnect and source the love that you feel you have for him. Being stubborn and not wanting to move on doesn’t make you a “bad” person. It makes you a wounded person, just like the rest of us. We are all wounded in some way or another and those wounds have pretty big impacts on how we feel, the decisions we make, the people we invest in and most of all – how we feel about ourselves.
Your wounds are soooo big that you are not able to see past the idea that you are nothing without this guy and you are losing everything. This is not true. You are so much more than this guy and the past year is showing you that. You have your body, your health, your mind, your talents, your passions, your work, your home, your family, your ideas, your strengths – all of those things exist WITHOUT this guy.
This is something that most people don’t really get and they reject the idea of it, but that’s okay. Just because you feel love, it doesn’t mean it’s healthy, clear or positive. Many times, the love we feel about someone is actually being sourced by our traumas, hurts, fears, addictions, insecurities and so much more. So the love we feel is actually a very unhealthy love. I’ve done that many many times! I’ve loved different guys that were not healthy or available. I wouldn’t give up either. I would keep doing everything I could to keep that love alive because it felt so much better to feel that, than to face my life without it. It’s a damaging kind of love and that’s what people are trying to tell you – that’s what I keep trying to tell you. The love you feel is damaging to you and to him. I know this because the love you feel is keeping you connected to a man that doesn’t want to be with you. You are identified with this “love” so intensely that you have lost who you are – hence feeling like you are losing everything if you can’t have him. This “love” you feel is limiting you – you cannot live your life without it. This “love” you feel is an addiction. This “love” you feel is about YOU and has nothing to do with him – meaning all you are focused on is getting what YOU want and it doesn’t matter what he wants.
Everyone around you is trying to tell to let go because there is NO WAY this guy will ever want to step back into this kind of love that will smother him. No guy wants to be the entire world for his woman. No guy wants a woman who doesn’t know herself without him. Any guy who does want that, is a guy who is only interested in controlling a woman and being served by her.
Like I’ve said before TavShad…you can keep being stubborn and miserable or you can decide you want for your life. Your life is your design, so you get to focus on whatever it is that you want. This guy is not coming back to you and it’s not because you are a bad person, it’s because you aren’t the right person for him. I know you feel differently, but that doesn’t matter does it? What matters is that he isn’t interested and is not coming back, so you get to keep trying and hoping and being miserable – or you can DECIDE to move on and work through that process and open yourself to new experiences. I know it will hurt, but it won’t be any worse than the hurt you are feeling now by not having him.
Thoughts?
One day, i would like to meet JB’s subconscious in person. 😀 You meet his subconscious every single day. It’s guesstimated that approximately 80% of how we go through our day is sourced, organized and guided by our subconscious. That’s a lot!
It’s such an interesting dynamic between the both of you. How often do you visit him? Does he live far from you? What do you guys do when you visit? I love playing the “how well do you think you know me” game. It’s so fun! Did you watch Game of Thrones? I’d be quite surprised if you did as it doesn’t seem like the kind of show you would spend your energy investing in. I never watched it. From the bits and pieces I heard from EVERYONE, it sounded way too gory and abusive for my taste. Everyone LOVED it though!
It sounds like you are exposing a lot of your deeper feelings for him – how you are describing what you write is definitely not a friendly vibe and is quite romantic. He seems to be receiving it too!
I want to flip to the end of the book too and see what the next chapters hold for both of you! I love everything you are sharing!
Heidi
Oh this is great news!!!! I’m soooo excited that you get to go home. It’s going to feel soooooo good for you! Enjoy Geneva!!!
Heidi
Gooood job! You are doing an amazing job at slowly giving needs permission to exist and fighting for them. One step at a time.
Since you haven’t hear back about the living situation and talking to the kids, I would recommend just giving him a date. You can say something like “Since communication between us is quite limited and you haven’t responded to my requests about creating some clarity about our living situation and the kids, I’m going to go ahead and move forward with the process. I have asked the kids to reserve Friday at 7pm for me and I’m going to share that you and I are heading in different directions now. I ask that you please move out by the end of the week. I have already contacted a lawyer and will be meeting with them next week. This is not what I want, but I also cannot stand being ignored, disregarded or rejected any longer. I’m losing my nerve, so it’s time for me to take some action.” Just a thought.
I think that really creating a reality check for him will be good! He has stayed in his cozy little cocoon without having to change a thing, so you being clear that you are moving forward with separation, may actually cause him to step up.
What was his reaction to not having any food ready?
Heidi
I understand he is afraid and stressed. I understand he doesn’t want to talk to the kids or his parents about anything.
I want to ask you though – what about you? It seems like you are just doing whatever he wants. It’s his plan, it’s his pace, it’s his needs and you are just going to have to go along with it – all the while you are dealing with an incredible amount of rejection – because he is too afraid to step into his choice. Maybe it’s time to ask him to leave and give a deadline. Maybe it’s time YOU talk to the kids and let them know dad is leaving. Thoughts?
Whatever issues we may have can be resolved should we communicate about it. So you think that if you guys could talk about his cheating, his incredibly rejecting behavior and his lack of care and respect towards you can all be solved?? I’m going to burst your bubble here. He has ruined every level of trust and safety that could exist between you guys. Talking about it not going to solve this. I know you guys have worked through everything before and that communication was always much better, but this is different. He needs help. You need help. This relationship has been torn to shreds and needs an incredible amount of repair. Even if he apologizes and decides to start connecting again, that isn’t going to change that he has cheated and blames you, it isn’t going to change that you are not going to inherently feel emotionally safe with him, that isn’t going to change his fears and anxiety about the future and how he handles them.
So being that he is just going to continue to drag his feet and not face anything and avoid really stepping into his choices, it’s time for you to do this. It’s time for YOU to step into and own what you need and find a way to create it. I know what you want is him to start communicating and trying to fix things, but that isn’t going to happen and it’s possible it never will. So for now, finding a way to get him out, letting your family know what’s happening and starting to prepare for separation – this is going to require him to face what he wants to avoid…and you giving him all the power to do whatever he feels like doing, without consideration of you – is just enabling and supporting him.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Oh I get it why the teacher tore up his homework. It sounds like it might have been helpful considering he needed some help staying the course.
I’m happy you feel comfortable to share all of this with me! It’s beautiful and I feel your heart all over the place as you are writing about him. I love that you mail him those letters. Such a rare thing! I get it though…there is a thing about writing vs. typing. I prefer writing as well. I’m sure he appreciates getting letters in the mail from you. Has he ever written back?
Retiring is always incredibly stressful, moreso for men. He will cross that threshold, fear in hand, and he will figure it out. I really am so curious how he views your relationship. Obviously he has touched a very deep part of you, but I wonder how you have impacted his life and how he feels and thinks about you. I wish I could ask him! I suppose all will be revealed over time. The relationship will either continue or you will go separate ways…like all relationships. I hope you guys get to continue. I would never wish that kind of pain on you to have to deal with the loss of him.
I love how honest you are with yourself about your marriage and the reasons for it. You were doing everything you could to survive, so of course you got married to an American. Why not? People get married for all different kinds of reasons. You should read this book by Elizabeth Gilbert. It was a really fun read. It’s her diatribe so to speak, about marriage. What it means, cultural influences, the history of it – and it’s wound into her personal story. I learned a TON actually, about all the different views on marriage. https://www.amazon.com/sk=gottman+man%27s+guide+to+women&adgrpid=1338106214769239&hvadid=83631709367991&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=109874&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83631980570910%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=20371_10303525&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_1uxpqs12xp_e
Keep sharing!
Heidi
No problem Jadene! I will respect and honor that you are not really interested in diving into the deeper aspects of things and that you are still focused on wanting those templates.
I need a bit more clarity though. If I am understanding correctly, you are wanting to know what to say when a guy pulls away. Being that each situation and person is different, I’m not sure how to guide you other than the HI core concept of asking for help. What you ask for help with and how you say it, will depend on the situation and what you are asking for help. There are a variety of ways to go about it. For example, in scenario 1 where she did not tell him what she wanted, that is an approach that sometimes doesn’t work because the guy KNOWS and can sense the manipulation and won’t have anything to do with it. AND..that approach has also worked as well. So it’s more about reading the situation and the person.
So I guess I’m not entirely clear how to help you create a template other than telling you that you ask for help with something to start the process. As you have learned, your 3rd attempt of trying to re-connect with this guy didn’t work and my guess is, it’s because you put something too personal in there and what you were asking for was beyond what he was willing to share. Also, it’s important that you use this technique more sparingly. In my opinion, men are highly underestimated. They can sense and feel when a woman is using a “technique” with them and when a woman is trying to get something from him. So using it sparingly will make it more powerful.
I’m not sure if any of what I am saying is helpful. Guide me a little more as to how this template idea of your works in your mind. Can you give me examples of what you mean? Like I previously said, what’s more important is understanding the concept and then you can make it your own by using it however you want. The energy behind what you say is more important that what you say…ALWAYS.
Heidi
