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Thank you for sharing more details. You really are dealing with a lot.
I have never given him an ultimatum but he has said that exact thing to me before. I think this is probably the most important thing to pay attention to here. He would choose her over you…his girlfriend. That’s telling you that whatever he does for her is more important than keeping you in his life. I know it’s not about romance and it’s more about him feeling obligated and committed to keeping her safe. I have no doubt she is soaking that up and I also have no doubt she is biding her time and hoping you move out. The thing is Kimberly, the issue isn’t that you are too independent and that you need to “need” him more – the issue is within him. His ex is really playing it up and sucking him into this hero/victim role. He isn’t seeing it that way, he feels 100% clear and committed to taking care of her – even at the expense of your relationship. That’s a problem…a BIG problem, because it’s a deal breaker. Whatever his abandonment issues are that could possibly be sourcing this very unhealthy connection, they are bigger than the love that exists between the 2 of you.
You need to decide what is right for you. Your relationship is falling apart because of his choices, the lack of connection and intimacy between the 2 of you and it’s time to have a real heart to heart conversation with him. You can say something like “I love that you are so incredibly loyal, caring and loving. What you are doing with her is really nice of you AND it’s also hurting our relationship. I understand your need to protect her and take care of her. You get to make that choice of course. I would never want to tell you what to do. I do need to tell you that I cannot live like this anymore. I miss you, I miss our connection and I’m feeling more and more distant from you. So, I would never ask you to choose between me and her. I love you and want to keep you in my life, so the best that I can do is move out on my own. You can come visit me and we can try and build our relationship in our own space again. I will be moving out by the end of the year.”
He isn’t going to change, but you can. He needs to feel the consequences of his choices not by you giving him an ultimatum, but by you choosing yourself and creating a different design. Who knows where the relationship will go at that point, but if it fades out and doesn’t work, wouldn’t you say that’s important information for you to know? If this girl has THAT much of a hold on him, he is way too dysfunctional to ever sustain a healthy, nourishing, long lasting relationship.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Delisa!
Wow! What an interesting situation you have. I’ve never coached this particular topic before, in this way. I love that you are here and curious and want to understand more deeply what is happening. There is actually A LOT to talk about with this topic, so let’s see where this adventure takes us.
First, let’s talk about this statement: I don’t know what I was doing correctly before. Every man I dated wanted commitment and marriage. It’s not about doing anything correctly or incorrectly. Committing to love is a big deal and MANY things influence 2 people making that kind of choice. AND….just because there was a commitment, doesn’t mean it’s anything beyond that. The commitment is just the starting point of a different journey. How you handle that new path of commitment is what is more important, wouldn’t you say? You’ve had 2 divorces, yes? Let’s talk about that.
What this current guy has expressed about his concerns, are they similar things you have heard from your previous relationships? Why did those relationships end? Do you understand and see why your current guy is concerned? Are you pressuring him? Do you feel like he needs to show you more love? Do you get angry a lot? What are you like when you get angry?
Why do you want to be with this man? If you really want to change how he feels about you, it’s important to really understand his concerns and begin to relate to him in a way that makes him feel emotionally safe with you. That’s just part of the puzzle, he carries the other part. You can’t do anything about his side of things, but you can start to learn how to become a better partner.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Oh man….you aren’t going to like this. No contact at all. Completely disengage from each other 100%. No visits even with your kids.
This is important because in order for you to heal and for him to truly move on, no contact is crucial. You both have to start getting used to a new kind of day…the kind of day WITHOUT each other. This is so incredibly hard, especially with how good of a friendship exists. But there is NO WAY to be friends – not while there are still feelings. I’ve tried a million times to go from romance to friends and it just doesn’t work. You need to heal, he needs to heal and this allows for the flame to slowly die out. It allows for you both to build your lives WITHOUT each other’s influence. Once you both are able to be neutral with each other, THEN there is a possibility you can be friends again. The test I always like to use for myself to see where I am at with an ex, is to imagine bumping into him with another girl. If I am able to truly feel happy for him as my first reaction, then I know I am ready to be friends should that present itself. If I still feel hurt, jealousy, wanting him back or anything negative, then I know I still have more healing and processing work to do. I know right now, the though of him with another girl probably breaks your heart into a million pieces. Your heart can be repaired and able to love another – whether it’s another man or whether it’s him again, 10 years down the road.
The problem with staying connected to each other, is it never really allows either of you to move on completely. As long as that flame is being sourced by you guys connecting, then it will never die out…and that is what needs to happen. You DO NOT want to have to experience him slowly disengaging, not texting as much, being more and more busy, feeling him not as interested or anything of that nature!!! It’s awful and it’s torture. It’s what is going to happen over time as he starts to date and explore and figure out who he is. He needs to do that without you. He needs to figure out his own life, without your advice, your friendship, your encouragement, your love – if he is going to truly develop in a healthy way. I know you were settled on him and I’m sooooo so sorry you are having to say goodbye to that dream. It’s incredibly hard to let a dream go – sometimes it’s the hardest part of the ending. You can do it though!
Heidi
Hi Michelle,
Wow! You really are going through a lot! I’m so sorry how things changed. It’s awful for you to be there.
I don’t know what is going on for him, but whatever it is, it’s something that is not fixable by you. You haven’t done anything. At least not from what you have shared. It sounds like his feelings have shifted, but there is no specific reason as to why. What can happen sometimes is someone starts to get what they want, but they are actually not set up to be happy. Their system sabotages their happiness and there is NO way you can shift that for someone else. That is a battle they have to take on within themselves. He either knows the reason or truly doesn’t know – either way, he is no longer available for you. I know how shocking that is for you, especially since there is quite a history of wonderful interactions.
You need to go home. DO NOT go to Italy together. It’s very clear he has no interest in being around you and you sure as heck don’t deserve to be treated this way. Protect yourself and go home. Italy WILL NOT be any fun for either of you!!!
You want to be around someone who has NOTHING stopping them from wanting to know you. Do you REALLY want to spend your energy trying to “convince” a guy to come back to you???
Heidi
Thank you for explaining more! I can see why he would want to step away from this situation. It’s tough dealing with a kid, that isn’t yours – who is verbally abusive. He is also only 20. I know he has been through a lot in his life and he appears to be more mature than most. It doesn’t change that he is still not fully developed in his brain. It doesn’t change that a normal, typical phase for a 20 year old to go through is to be experimental, explorative and free. He is soooooo young developmentally and it’s not surprising that a very natural part of him is going to want to go be a kid. He missed A LOT of his youthful years where he was supposed to be playful, being parented – NOT parenting your kids – and being a young teenager. His spirit really missed a lot of what is important in development and it’s not unusual for him to want to experience a lot of what he missed – dating, liking different girls, being rejected by different girls, having sex with different girls – getting to know his likes and dislikes. I know you guys have an incredible friendship and connection. The kindest thing you can do for him is to let him go and allow him to grow up. If he is to ever come back to you, it needs to be AFTER he has really figured himself out. He has spend so much of his developing years being a “father” to your kids when he is still a kid himself. As painful as it is for both of you, he truly needs to go figure out who he is without being a “father” or a boyfriend. He needs to go date other girls, he needs to go develop his own thoughts and feelings, separate from you and he needs to go live his life on his own and figure out who he is. Then…maybe later on down the road, he can come back to you as a man, whole and complete and knowing who the heck he is.
I know this is not what you want to hear. I know this breaks your heart…and his too. I will tell you….it will be more painful down the road when this need of his to figure out his life becomes bigger and bigger. This feeling he has is not going to go away. It’s just going to magnify over time and it will only cause him to want to cheat again or who knows what else. Love him enough to let him go so he can grow up.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Stop all at once. I’m sure he won’t ask about it, but it doesn’t matter. Who knows what is going on in his mind and you will probably never know. You need to truly stay away from him.
Heidi
Rhonda!!! I have the best idea for a children’s book that you could do! What if the focus was about teaching kids about the different types of animals out there…birds and land animals. You seem to know a lot about birds! And what if you called the book “The little tumbleweed” And that’s the main character. The tumbleweed gets blown all over the country and hangs out in different spots and travels by all different kinds of animals and sometimes when the wind is strong enough, it gets to fly with the different types of birds. LOL!!! I can totally feel this book!!! It’s educational, fun and so sweet!!!
I’m so excited for you to get a good dose of your boys and then your home! Your soul is going to be sooooooo happy! We haven’t gotten any snow yet. It is in the forecast for this week, but not sure it’s going to happen. It’s still not cold enough yet…but we’ll see.
Trav finally got his passport! Yayaya! Now he is allowed to have some adventures with you! Everything is working out really well at the moment. Even though parts of your trip didn’t go so well, a lot is pretty wonderful too! I really am so excited for your trip home!!!
Heidi
Focusing on the wrong things, being afraid of not being good enough, lack of self esteem, self confidence that usually lead to me doing what people are expecting from me instead of doing and having what I want. How are you going to go about this? Do you really feel you have a lack of self esteem? From my perspective you have A LOT of high self esteem and some low self-esteem. The low self esteem will ALWAYS be there. Of course we can always keep working on it, but in the end, being that it is just part of the human experience, I’d say it’s the most effective to learn how to transition from low to high self esteem as quickly as possible.
I love that you got some amazing feedback. You are helping to change the world Emilie!!! That’s just amazing!!!
Heidi
As I keep saying I do want this person as a friend because of the small population and prior connection. If he just continues to not show up for me then I’ll know my answer that he just isn’t You don’t want this person as “just a friend.” You expressed your hurt feelings to him, the agreement was to be “friends” with the potential for something more. In essence, how you are experiencing him, how you are thinking about him, how you are observing him – is all from a romantic mindset. So I go back to this question…you KNOW he is not available for you in the way you are wanting. You KNOW his fear about relationships and the low self-esteem he carries around that topic is A LOT and it stops him from moving forward into something more meaningful – hence he is not available for you. Why are you still open to pursuing a romantic connection with him? I understand there is a small population, so I can understand staying friends. If he just continues to not show up for me, then I’ll know my answer. How many times does he have to “not show up” for you until you decide 100% to close the door on the romance side of things? He has already told you and shown you that he cannot offer what you want, yet a part of you is still holding on, hoping he will change. You are incredibly frustrated with how you keep attracting unavailable men, yes here you are again, keeping the door open to another unavailable man KNOWING he cannot offer you what you want. Like I’ve said many times, if you want to shift this pattern, you need to make different choices. Choose to close the door on this. Let go of the idea of a relationship with him and move on. Thoughts?
Isn’t the point of reading a course to master the material and learn something? Of course! However, the root of your pattern lives in the programs and beliefs about relationships. The HI materials, nor any other information for that matter, will shift that pattern for you. The HI material is more of a surface tool. It’s a way to improve connection, but it doesn’t change how a person interacts with love. If a guy is emotionally unavailable, he is that way for a reason and the only thing that shifts that, is if the guy works more deeply with his traumas, beliefs and programs around love. So shifting your pattern means identifying a guy who is emotionally unavailable and WALKING AWAY from that, regardless of the connection or attraction you have towards each other. It doesn’t seem like you are in a place where you are willing to do that quite yet. It seems you are still waiting and watching and seeing for this guy to finally show up for you. This is the core issue for you to work with if you want to change your experiences.
Heidi
I want to continue my journey and feel totally free from all my past behaviour, my fears 🙂 What specific past behaviors? What specific fears?
Whoa!!!! 1200 people???? How AMAZING!!!!! What did that feel like? Do you like how you performed? Was the response good? Man, that’s a lot of power you have in those moments, isn’t it?? You are one of a kind for sure!
Heidi
But somehow we don’t make it to the next level, It sounds like you guys have a good, honest, open connection. This is a great start, but as you know, it’s just the beginning. To get past this point, this is where having an expert can guide you. Having someone who knows BOTH of you, offers objective guidance and help you both navigate your very personal and unique journey – it will yield the best results for you guys. Maybe check out https://www.gottman.com/ This is an INCREDIBLE resource for couples. You can also look to see if there is a Gottman trained therapist near you. A lot of therapists are now doing video sessions, so that can also be an option if there is not one near your area. They have A LOT of very powerful books with concepts and actions you can immediately begin to implement into your marriage.
I do want to say though, it’s one thing to educate yourself more and start to practice and develop new skills for connection, but it’s ANOTHER thing to work with the hurt and baggage you both are carrying individually AND as a couple. This is why finding an expert is helpful. They will be able to hold each of you accountable to the baggage you bring to the situation and be able to personally guide you through working with this baggage.
If he doesn’t feel quite ready yet, then YOU can start the process. Right now, action needs to be taken. Talking about it isn’t enough. If you want to fight for this, then it’s time for you to do something different. I know you found us here and that’s great! We can only do so much over this platform and I’m happy to support you and guide you as you go through this. However, I want to suggest a more impactful action. Find a specialist to work with, get one of the Gottman books and really commit with everything you have, to make this work.
Maybe a question you can ask him to start is, “I really want to focus on improving myself as your partner. What is 1 thing you would like to request that I do?” If you guys can find 1 thing for each other to focus on, what would that ACTION be?
Heidi
You are driving by his house???? I’m wondering if he is trying to figure out if you are still stalking him. BE CAREFUL!!!! The way he is asking questions has NOTHING to do with him wanting to reconnect with you. It seems like he is setting you up for something. If he is asking to borrow your car (which if he is rich, why? He has friends who have cars and I’m sure it would be easy for him to get access to one) and now he is asking which one you are driving – it has nothing to do with him wanting to actually borrow your car. There is something strange here. If you are still stalking him and driving by his house, LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!! You are ruining ALL chances of ever getting back with him.
Heidi
I do have a concern as you know with getting the HI material down correctly. This is my point. Your focus of doing things “correctly” or “right” is about being able to produce a specific result – and that is ultimately about your need to control the situation – most likely to avoid getting hurt again. Would you agree with this? If not, help me understand. What do you think or believe the HI material is going to do for you?
I get that. I pick or allow in or am attracted to unavailables like my parents. I think you’ve been saying he will not change so I need to look elsewhere. You CANNOT control who you are attracted to, but you CAN control what you do with that attraction. I have been attracted to emotionally unavailable men, but I have a STRONGER part of me that says, “Nope. Not going to do this anymore” and I very consciously choose to cut all connections and not source that attraction. You choose to feed that connection anyways and that is what is hurting you. And no, he isn’t going to change, but even beyond that, the fact that you want him to change is the issue here. A person needs to be loved for EXACTLY who they are – without needing them to change. If you cannot love the worst of someone and take their limitations and embrace them as part of your love, then you are NOT a good fit for that person and you step away.
I have never met anyone who loves me as I am. I have always felt a need to pursue and get it right before it slipped through my fingers, which it always has. It has always slipped through your fingers because you chose to try to make something work with unavailable men who didn’t have the ability to be in a sustainable relationship to begin with. It seems like you have this very strong program running in your system that love is about “doing” and not “being.” Therefore, the more you learn, the more you develop your skills, the more you “do” the “right” things, then you will be able to be loved and have a man that sticks with you. What your friend is doing is just “being.” She is just “being” herself and that man finds her attractive. It’s an “allowing” energy instead of a “pushing” energy that you come from. I understand you don’t know what this feels like. My guess is, your ability to push is powerful and has gotten you a lot of things in life, so it’s worked for you. With love, this is NOT the energy for building a successful relationship.
Okay well yes people show up and I can say no to the unavailable ones inatead of yes please sir can I have some more Do you understand WHY you say yes to the unavailable men? I know you get what your core wound is around this, but you are still saying yes and inviting pain into your life. What do you understand about your choice to do this?
Heidi
