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Well, more in general what makes a relationship work and last. This is the big question isn’t it? The Gottman institute answered that for us. Here is their website: https://www.gottman.com/gottman-for-singles/ They did the longest study in existence (20 years) where they studied a gazillion couples in attempt to answer this very question. The information they up with is incredible and powerful! They have some amazing information on their website, so they are a good place to start as far as researching and learning about this topic.
Here is another great video: https://youtu.be/gh5VhaicC6g
I’m still not entirely sure. I know you have SOME ideas about what a healthy relationship looks like. What are some of your thoughts on this? Obviously, every single couple is different. Regardless of the couple, I think there are underlying, foundational qualities that need to exist in every single relationship…like treating each other with respect, even in the worst moments. What does that mean? You should read about the “4 horsemen” on the Gottman website. This will tell you the things that destroy connection. Along with that, it’s important for you to truly understand how you want to be treated in the best moments and the worst moments and then set your standards from that place. What are your core values? What are your non-negotiables? What do you need to feel balanced and nourished in a relationship? A relationship consists of 3 components…1 – you 2 – him 3 – the relationship itself. It’s VERY possible to love the man but NOT love the relationship. It’s possible to love the relationship but not necessarily the man. So you want to love the man AND really love the relationship and how you guys move through life together. What that entails is different for each person, so this is where it’s crucial for you to truly know yourself, what works for you and what doesn’t work for you.
Thoughts?
Heidi
I just emailed you her contact info, so let me know if you didn’t get it!
I still blame myself for not taking the lead to have that difficult conversation, knowing how he is I feel like I should have known better and taken the lead. This would be YOU taking responsibility for his happiness. It’s not your job to make sure he communicates his needs. He is a grown man and you stepping in and taking the lead is like treating him as if he is incapable of that. That puts you in the “mother” type role and him the child. He needs to be treated like an adult where you EXPECT that he can take care of himself. Your need to take the blame is part of your own story about relationship, love and your own value – it’s part of your woundedness that is not operating from truth. This thought / story is coming your little girl wounded energy and not your grown up adult energy. Does this make sense?
The thing is, just because you know the truth, doesn’t mean you can actually feel it nor act upon it. When we know what the truth is, but are not able to bring into our system and live from that truth, that’s a sign of some deeper subconscious unhealthy programming that is operating in our system much more strongly than the truth. With my coach, we really get after those unhealthy programs. Today, even though many of those stories still exist in my system, the truth is much stronger in me and I am able to embrace it much easier when I am in a trigger. This is where you need to get to – making the truth bigger than the stories and programs. Does this make sense?
I’m shocked he moved on so quickly and here I am stuck and still grieving. Again, here is a sign of how different you both approach pain and challenge. He looks for distraction and you step into the pain, work with it and face it. He isn’t “over you” by any means. That’s impossible. He is just looking for quick fixes to ease the pain of the loss of you – and finding someone else is a quick and easy fix. This further shows how much you guys are not a match in the long run. You want a guy who will face his fears, his limitations, his hurts and he works with all of it instead of running from it. He is being quite unkind by connecting with another woman. She probably has no idea how unavailable he truly is and he sure isn’t protecting her from himself. It’s mean to pull someone into your world when you can’t offer them what they want. Maybe it’s just casual – who knows. Either way, he is running like he always has.
Of course you are still hurting and in shock. There is A LOT for you to process. It’s more than this breakup – it’s everything. It’s about the deep woundedness in you that you have carried for sooooo long and this breakup is triggering that. Be kind to yourself. Be patient. Be caring and compassionate. Treat yourself gently and know that this will pass.
Heidi
Hi Margo,
You sound quite grounded and clear about what you need. This is great!
What do you think you need to learn? What do you think healthy is?
Heidi
Hi Jennifer! Welcome to our forum.
It really is awful to be connecting with someone more than they are connecting with us. It really is strange how similar this guy and your last guy is! If that tells you anything, it might be telling you to try something different.
Let me ask you this…what is happening in YOU that caused you to accept a very limited relationship for so long? If a guy isn’t willing to commit after that long, he obviously is emotionally unavailable. Whether it has to do with you or him, it doesn’t matter. Regardless, it’s not what you want or need. And now you are walking down the same path again – with a guy who doesn’t appear to be a very good communicator.
Here is one thing to ALWAYS remember. Chemistry DOES NOT equal compatibility. Chemistry is just chemistry. It’s attraction that brings people together to get things started, but that’s about it. You have to have compatibility for things to be sustainable and workable – and so far, it seems this guy is not compatible in the communication department. Maybe consider moving on? I would suggest to also completely disconnect from the other guy. No friendship, no nothing – allow your heart to heal and truly separate from him. Once you have healed, you can be friends again, but until then, it’s important to give yourself some space and truly separate from him completely.
Thoughts?
Heidi
I guess I’ve always thought part of a relationship is making the other person happy and meeting his/her needs. Is this not true? Isn’t part of a relationship making your partner happy? This is a great question!!! There are a lot of dynamics to this, so let’s just keep working through this. Bottom line, each person’s happiness is up to themselves…that’s it. When it comes to relationship, it’s not your job to make sure they are happy, BUT their happiness is important to you. But it’s not your job to figure out what that is for them…that’s their job. So your guy was not happy and he never took ownership of that and really worked at trying to find his balance and what was missing and making sure he was getting his needs met. So the thing is, you be you, he is who he is and that, just by itself needs to make both of you happy. Of course limitations and baggage show up, so when that happens, you communicate your needs and talk about how to work through the sticky times, in an honoring and respectful way. So your partner’s happiness matters and you compromise and work on becoming the best partner possible, BUT never at the expense of who you are and want to be. So, both people are responsible for their own balance, making sure their needs are being met both personally and in the relationship and then together, the relationship naturally is nourishing and no one is completing the other person because each person completes themselves. Does this make sense?
I will email you her contact info! I hope it works out!
Heidi
I guess I’ve always thought part of a relationship is making the other person happy and meeting his/her needs. Is this not true? Isn’t part of a relationship making your partner happy? This is a great question!!! There are a lot of dynamics to this, so let’s just keep working through this. Bottom line, each person’s happiness is up to themselves…that’s it. When it comes to relationship, it’s not your job to make sure they are happy, BUT their happiness is important to you. But it’s not your job to figure out what that is for them…that’s their job. So your guy was not happy and he never took ownership of that and really worked at trying to find his balance and what was missing and making sure he was getting his needs met. So the thing is, you be you, he is who he is and that, just by itself needs to make both of you happy. Of course limitations and baggage show up, so when that happens, you communicate your needs and talk about how to work through the sticky times, in an honoring and respectful way. So your partner’s happiness matters and you compromise and work on becoming the best partner possible, BUT never at the expense of who you are and want to be. So, both people are responsible for their own balance, making sure their needs are being met both personally and in the relationship and then together, the relationship naturally is nourishing and no one is completing the other person because each person completes themselves. Does this make sense?
I will email you her contact info! I hope it works out!
Heidi
Oh yayayayaya! I’m soooo so happy you got there okay and you got to spend time with them!!! I look forward to hearing more about your trip when you have some spare time…which hopefully you won’t 🙂
Heidi
That’s right. I remember you started doing the tapping. I understand that talk therapy is just not having the impact you are wanting. Tapping will also be quite limited as it can only go so deep. You need to work with someone who knows how to navigate the depths of your subconscious really well! That’s where you are going to make the changes, do the most powerful healing work and actually feel like you are getting somewhere. I’m happy to recommend my Coach. She is the MOST brilliant healer I have ever come across – and I’ve seen MANY. She navigates the subconscious with such mastery, it’s amazing. She will also equip you with skills to handle your emotions right on the spot, so you can start processing things right away. She will absolutely push you – many times beyond what you think you are capable of. She is the only one who has been able to create movement for me in some areas that I thought were untouchable. If you would like her information, just let me know and I’ll email you her phone number. I will tell you though, she won’t work with you as long as you are working with those other practitioners. As deep as she goes, it’s important to only have 1 person stirring the pot – that way no one ends up working against each other. What I would suggest is for you to just have a conversation with her and get a sense about how she works. If you feel like you would like to try a session with her after talking, you guys can set it up then. I’m guessing she will do 1 session for you so you both can get a sense of each other, but beyond that, she won’t continue working with you as long as you are working with those other people. Why not give it shot? I have no doubt she will take you much farther than those 3 people will. She has an incredibly unique skillset and understanding / intuition of the psyche that is like no other. Her methods work fast too – if you allow it to. Just a thought.
I’ve never grieved like this after a breakup. It’s hard to picture a future without him in it. I know that’s not what I should be thinking but it’s how I feel. Of course you are feeling this way. It’s important to embrace whatever it is that you feel and work WITH it instead of telling yourself you shouldn’t be thinking that way. Every thought we have is information about your thought process. It’s a way to learn about yourself. I know you can’t imagine your future without him as he made you feel ways that you had never felt before. I know you think that if you had shown him more affection, you wouldn’t be in this situation. While that may be true, all it would have done was delay the inevitable. Like I said, the way he functions, he will never be very successful in relationship, unless he works on himself. What is he doing instead? He is stepping away and probably not doing a darn thing to shift his pattern. While you are here working with 3 different practitioners, diving into your baggage, trying to work on your limitations. Do you see how different your approaches are? This, in and of itself, will create a HUGE gap. If you were to stay together, you would be the one doing all the work, all the learning, all the shifting your patterns, while he would just be reaping the benefits, but not really contributing. You would gradually end up feeling very alone in the relationship because he would not have an ability to truly understand you – simply because he doesn’t understand himself. He can only know and understand you to the depth that he is able to know and understand himself. So as you are growing and learning, you would be able to offer him a much deeper level of understanding and connection that he would not be able to reciprocate. You NEED a guy who also goes after his limitations and joins you on that journey of facing fears, working on limitations, owning his own stuff and developing his emotional intelligence along WITH you. This guy wasn’t willing to do that. Instead, he blamed you for his needs not being met. Huh??? Since when is it YOUR responsibility to make sure he is balanced and happy and that his needs are being met??? A good partner SPEAKS up and is very clear about what isn’t working as well as what is working. That’s a REAL teammate. He instead gave you small hints and hoped you would get the message. So again, even if you had really gotten the message and did better, it doesn’t change that HE wouldn’t be doing better. He would have stayed in the same patterning and eventually walked away. He abandoned himself to you and that never turns out well. It’s good he finally chose himself, but it sounds like that’s about as far as he is going to take it.
Thoughts??
Heidi
Yes, I remember your story. I’m so sorry you are still struggling. You have a very strong story running in your psyche that feels 100% real and causing you a lot of suffering. These stories we ALL create are so much stronger than the truth that it prevents us from healing.
Let’s spend some time on your story and see if we can get some truth into your system to help counteract the lies.
I’ve never had a relationship like this before and never had anyone love me the way he did. While this may be true, it does not mean that the connection he offered was clear and healthy. He was quite co-dependent – remember that is when someone meets the needs of others at the expense of themselves. People who have this type of relating style make it extremely difficult to truly be in an authentic connection with them. They will give and give and give and then they eventually will start to feel resentful and there begins the “cancer” that destroys the connection. Yes, you were abused and yes, you were sick. However, what did he do to take care of himself while you were going through all of that? Where was he setting healthy boundaries for himself? Where was he allowing you to just feel your feelings without taking them on himself? Where was he protecting himself from the intensity you were dealing with? This was HIS responsibility, not yours and he failed. He failed at taking care of himself. He failed at being completely honest and authentic with you. He failed at maintaining his own balance and protecting the connection. These are HIS lessons that he really needs to learn – that’s the gift of your pain in HIS life. It exposed how he treats himself and how much he abandons himself to take on someone else’s challenges. This is not a healthy kind of connection he is offering and your pain exposed that. Yes, you contributed to the breakup with your side of things, but the truth is, if it wasn’t your pain from the abuse and your illness that acted as the catalyst to this separation, something else would have been. When a relationship is faulty, it gets exposed under stress – and how you guys were connecting had a lot of dysfunction in it that eventually would have broken the connection – it just so happens that your pain was the catalyst and that isn’t your fault. It’s just how it happened to work out. This breakup is no one’s fault. There is no one to blame here because both of you contributed to this. Can you acknowledge this? Can you acknowledge and see how his response to all of your pain was not very effective? Can you see how HE handled your stress in a way that was very unhealthy for him which eventually led him to feeling overwhelmed and overextended and needing to step away? What are your thoughts on this? What story is your brain coming up with now, to counteract this truth of how he ALSO was the cause of this breakup?
One of the reasons you are struggling so much is because there are some deeper rooted beliefs influencing you holding on so tightly. For example, I ended things with a guy recently where our connection was AMAZING! It felt so incredibly good and enlivening. I felt like my whole world got lit up on fire when he re-entered my life after 20 years. I soon learned though, that he was just as dysfunctional as he was when we dated 20 years ago. Back then, I dealt with it. Today, no way. I know too much now to know that how he functions under stress will absolutely cause a lot of harm to our connection. The thing is, knowing what I know didn’t change how incredibly hard it was for me to let go and say goodbye for good. Why? Well, aside from the connection, I was coming off of a year of surgeries, being bedridden and perpetually in a state of trying to recover. It was a very hard year. He came along and all of a sudden, I felt new life. I felt new energy of wanting to conquer the world and that I actually could! I had someone by my side that I could “plug into” as a source. So saying goodbye, also meant saying goodbye to how I got to feel about my life. Plus, I’m in a place of really wanting to settle down and he would have done that with me. The hard part about letting go of him was more about the loss of my dream – of my future – that I built around him AND that I needed to be my own source of conquering the world and he was not going to help me. Those things that I so strongly had bonded to him, actually weren’t about HIM…they were about ME! I was plugging this guy into my “fantasy” world because I REALLY needed him to fit – why? Because I had A LOT of stuff come up from all the surgeries and wanting to fall in love and get settled – and what came up was child, wounded energy and that was what was pulling me into connecting with an unhealthy guy. Basically, it’s hard for you to let go because there is still A LOT of little girl, wounded energy that has not been resolved yet. That little girl energy is MUCH stronger than your adult energy and she is holding on for dear life! I imagine you work with this part of yourself with your therapist, yes? Do you feel therapy isn’t working for you? I can’t remember, is it just talk therapy or do you do deeper work with techniques?
Looking forward to your response!!!
Heidi
Well! Today is Thanksgiving and I praying you are spending it with your boys and that the weather did not get in the way of that. Snow is sooooo much better than rain, but not if it stops you from seeing them!
I know that regardless, you are incredibly happy to be going home, seeing some sun, snow and visiting your home that I’m sure misses your energy terribly!
I am sending you sooooo many good vibes that things go just the way you need them to and that you get restored.
Heidi
Hi Jaylyn.
Welcome to the forum! This is a tough situation because no matter what you do, it isn’t going to change his need to interrogate or his need to shut down. His need to shut down is his life long coping mechanism. We all have them and they never go away. The best we can do is manage our coping mechanism, but that takes a lot of work and some serious deep diving / healing / forgiving etc. It’s really important that you understand this – HE IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE.
Your job is to accept him for who he is. He has a tough job and sees/works with the worst of humanity. His job isn’t going to change, so him being suspicious is just part of who he is. You can work at connecting through conversation, but you are taking on a HUGE project here – and one that will most likely have very little success. You might see some small changes at best, but again – if you are going into this relationship wanting him to change, then wouldn’t you say he might not be a good match for you? He deserves to be loved, chosen and accepted for EXACTLY who he is – shutting down and interrogating included. If you can do this, then great! If not and you need him to change so you can feel more connected with him, then you might want to consider taking a step back and re-evaluating whether or not it’s the best choice to date a guy you aren’t happy with.
I have no doubt he has some amazing qualities or you wouldn’t be here trying to figure this out. Here is something to think about though…it is NOT the best parts of a couple or a person that makes a relationship work. A relationship breaks because the worst of the couple is damaging or sabotaging the connection. When I advise people who are wanting to fall in love, I tell them to pay attention to the worst of the person. How do they treat you when they are stressed? How do they treat themselves and how do they handle the stress? It’s important they are respectful, stay connected and work through things WITH you. Not to say that a person can’t take some time and space, but it’s communicating “hey…I need some time to process this. I will connect with you at the end of the day and we can keep talking about this…” Poor communication is the #2 reason people get divorced. So no matter how amazing this guy might be and all of his great qualities, his worst qualities are the kind that will break connection and lead to breaking up – unless he is willing to shift how he handles stress.
Have you ever expressed to him what you have said here?
Heidi
Hi Audrey,
Just wanted to check in. Any thoughts about what I said? Any more questions? How have things progressed? Have you heard from him again?
Heidi
why do I want to punish him because he is overreacting for silly things and not for every situation I will fix things he needs also to be responsible. It sounds like there are some deeper rooted issues here, beyond what is currently happening. It sounds like you feel like you are always the one fixing things and he doesn’t take responsibility. Yes? No?
He definitely feels like you are not hearing him nor very curious about him. So let’s talk about that. His feelings are real for HIM, whether you agree with it or not. What do you understand about how he is feeling? His statements is definitely a deep rooted statement and doesn’t seem to be a feeling he has from only this current situation, but probably from many experiences. That’s the hard part about 15 years – a lot of patterns can really build up and cause hurt and resentment if those patterns are not really worked on by both parties. Yes, he probably is having a BIG reaction over something silly AND his reaction is telling you something about him. Whatever happened, it triggered something pretty big in him, so his reaction is not just about this current situation – it’s about something MUCH bigger. Do you have any idea about what it could be triggering from his past?
As far as you apologizing, I’m sure you apologized for what you said, but it doesn’t sound like you have said anything about how he is feeling. He is feeling not heard, he is feeling like all you care about is yourself, he is feeling like you are not curious about him. So that’s why I recommended to say what I mentioned above.
Since you guys haven’t talked in a couple of days, you can say something like “I’ve really been thinking a lot about this whole situation. I don’t fully and completely understand everything you are feeling and your need to pull away from me. I realized how ineffective I was in handling all of this because I don’t understand. You’re right. I wasn’t very curious about you, I didn’t ask you why you were angry and I’m really seeing how I could have handled all of this much better. I want to be a better partner for you and I want you. I want to understand you more and I want you to feel more supported. I know you still need space, but whenever you are ready to talk, my heart is open and I want to know you better and learn how I can be a better partner for you.”
How does saying something like that feel for you? I think the bottom line here is, you guys both have some deep rooted feelings about each other that need to be acknowledged, addressed and very directly worked on. Have you guys ever worked with a specialist or tried to help yourselves at all through a book or program? Is that something you would be willing to do?
Heidi
Hi MA,
Thank you for being here! I definitely can understand your desire to punish him and I understand your confusion. Men and women can operate so differently in relationships.
Let’s see if we can find some resolution here.
Then I got mad at him “how come he slept with me when he still has a mad feeling.” First, it’s important to understand that men and women view and experience sex very differently. Most men are able to compartmentalize their feelings. I’m sure that is what he did, so he could have sex with you. I wouldn’t take it personally. I understand how that hurt your pride, because us ladies are unable to have sex unless everything is okay. What I suggest is to talk to him about him. Sex is such a dynamic act of intimacy and it’s so important to make sure communication is good about it. Why not have a conversation with him and ask him about it. You can say something like, “Tell me about how you were able to have sex with me, even though you were upset. I would like to understand this more. Teach me about your mindset.”
there is no connection at all, and your pride hurt, but you are not thinking about me, and you did not even ask why I’m mad; you are not even curious, you just care about yourself !” This says a lot about how he is feeling. What are you thoughts about this? Do you understand why he feels this way? Do you see some truth in it?
Has he ever mentioned feeling like this before?So I don’t know what to do. At the same time, I want to punish him for this kind of attitude I think that place to start is to validate what he is feeling and create some space for him and whatever it is that he wants you to pay attention to. You can start by saying “I heard you. You are feeling like I am not curious about you and I want to fix that. Let’s talk. I want to listen.”
It’s important for you to put aside your need to punish him for right now. Would you be willing to forgive him and let this go? And instead, focus on repairing the connection? Your feelings can come up later, but for right now, can you focus on what he needs?
Heidi
