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Let’s start with this one: Right now I’m doing okay because he is still withdrawn in his depression, but I need to brace myself for when he’ll come out of this latest funk which will likely be soon. He doesn’t take me seriously when I tell him I don’t think we should date anymore, that I’m done. It’s my fault, because I’ve cried wolf more times than I can count, and each time I end up caving once he’s actively pursuing me again (or even approaches that, is adequately communicative, etc). It’s okay that you have cried wolf many times. You are doing the best you can and at some point, you will stick to your word because you are tired of hurting and tired of the rollercoaster ride. The reality is, people don’t make changes until they are in enough pain in their situation, that they are willing to finally do something different. So maybe you are not in enough pain yet WITH him, that you are not willing to face the pain without him. And that’s okay. I’ve done that many times! AND…even when I know I’m doing that, I am working hard, behind the scenes to set myself up for success the next time I “cry wolf.” So just keep connecting to yourself, working with your fears and maybe create a better plan for when you DO disconnect. I would recommend that you let him know you are done and ready to truly say goodbye. No explanation! You have already explained over and over and over again why you want to break up, so it’s a moot point now. Just let him know you are disconnecting and you can do it through a text or email. People do have judgments about doing it that way, but someone in your situation where you have a hard time really sticking to your decision because he talks you out of it…texting or emailing is a way to protect yourself from getting sucked back into a healthy relationship. He is going to be upset and hurt regardless, so at this point, it doesn’t matter. Then after you do that, block him from EVERYTHING. Block him in your phone, your email and anywhere else he has access to you. This will prevent you from knowing when he is ready to “woo” you back into his life. Then…maybe consider seeing a coach, a therapist or someone who can help you work through your feelings. Maybe join a program or a group class that can help hold you accountable. At the very least, let your close friends know that you are going to need extra support for a little bit. KNOW that you are going to miss him, crave him and want him back and you will have to fight the urges that come up. It’s hard for sure, but if you do your work and have some accountability, you are setting yourself up for success. Imagine you are planning to go on a SUPER hard hike that lasts several days. Would you go without a first aid kit? Would you go without researching and setting yourself up for success? Nope. You would prepare for the difficulty, emergencies, weather etc. This is the same thing. So if you are really ready to go this route, then there is no need to wait until he comes out of his “funk.” You do this now while he is disconnected and then you reach out to people and start doing your own work. You have me here, so you can always use this place as a way to work through your feelings with me. Thoughts on this?
There is so much to address, so I’m just going to talk about 1 more thing and try and streamline this:
Heidi, several times you referenced “hiding” and me hiding in the sub-par relationships. Would you mind explaining what you mean? I’ve tried to figure it out from context, but I don’t think I understand.. What I mean by hiding is that you choose men who have no ability to truly see you, know you, appreciate you and value you. You pick men who are not emotionally intimate or available. So that means that they never actually know you…which mean you get to keep “hiding.” This is a really strange concept for people to understand with their minds until they actually experience it and watch what comes up for them.The #1 reason people don’t get better is because they start to get what they want and are not set up to have it. This is what is called the “upper limit.” We ALL have a limit as to how happy and free and nourished we allow ourselves to be. That limit is connected to the amount of low self-esteem and programs and beliefs that are running in our system that is around love and connection. So someone with A LOT of low self-esteem, like your guy, has attracted you, a higher functioning person he could actually have a more healthy relationship with, yet he is sabotaging it ALL THE TIME. It’s because he has so much low self-esteem that doesn’t believe he deserves to be happy. That belief in this lies is MUCH BIGGER than the truth, so he cannot feel the truth. He is reaching his “upper limit” with you. Every time he starts to feel happy, open, hopeful etc, his system has to shut it down and sabotage to keep him in his “comfort zone.” The upper limit is an imaginary, subconscious, glass ceiling that when we hit it, we sabotage our happiness, success etc. to drop back into a lower state. That is why it takes WORK to truly be happy. That upper limit is only shattered and surpassed when we do healing work and clearing our baggage that helped make the glass ceiling. So…he is not set up to be happy. You would do the same exact thing. Even if I introduced you to the most amazing, kind, open, authentic, nourishing and wonderful man right now…your system would reject him. You are not set up to receive that level of connection, because you still have enough “baggage” hanging out in your subconscious that it acts as your glass ceiling. I have experienced this SEVERAL times in different areas of my life. One example is my most recent dog, Shumba. He surprisingly came into my life a few months after my previous dog had passed away. He was the most powerful, open, incredible love and when I first met him, his love was overwhelming and I watched myself push him away…he was pushing me to my upper limit. I immediately recognized this and was actually quite surprised because I’ve done so much work on myself, but nonetheless…I watched myself reject the purist love that could exist. I obviously worked through that and he became the most powerful and transformative love in my entire life. He helped me raise my upper limit. Another way to explain this is when you first wake up in the morning and your eyes have been closed for several hours, when you turn the light on, it takes a bit to adjust. It’s painful to your eyes at first to let the light in. It’s the same exact thing with our psyche. We naturally are attracted to and invite others into our lives that function around the same frequency we do, because that is what he know, are comfortable with and keeps us below our upper limit. It’s why your mom picked a 2nd husband who also treated her poorly. And remember, people are not doing this knowingly. This is all living in the subconscious and they have no idea the dynamics that are at play in their decision making and attraction.
This is so incredibly hard to explain. There are so many pieces to the puzzle and this is just one part of it. I have a whole system that I typically use to explain the entire picture to my clients. So I hope this is making sense.
Let me know your thoughts!
I’m glad that what I wrote was not too much for you to take in. It sounds like you received some of it really well, resisted some of it and need more understanding about some of it. Adventures, right??? I love it all and deeply love everything you are sharing.
When a man gradually becomes indifferent, seems less engaged, grumpy, never romantic, etc, it could take years of talking to that man, trying to get him to see there’s a problem, eventually maybe convincing him to go to couples counseling, only to have the marriage fall apart anyway because he’s simply not in it anymore. Those are some miserable years that I do fear even as a possibility. I’m not sure how to overcome that. Okay…so let’s talk about trust again and use these fears that are pretty big for you. First, the way to work with your fears is to step into them and REALLY dive into it and get to know it. So imagine taking your fear and putting it into a person and you go to lunch with that person/fear. Now pretend you are an investigative reporter needing to know EVERYTHING about that fear in order to write an article about it. What kinds of questions would you ask that person/fear? You would ask things like “Where does the fear come from? When did it start? What else about the fear? How much does it impact your life and get in the way of truly being emotionally intimate with a man? How often does this fear show up? What evidence does this fear have? I suggest asking these questions to your “fear” in a journal and then let the fear speak to you through your writing. Surrender your pen to the fear and let it take over and speak to you. See what comes up.
Let me just address your fear: We all come to the table with different fears. I have never been afraid of what you are afraid of. Why? Because the kind of man I will allow into my inner circle will not function that way. How do I know that? Because I will know his NATURAL, ORGANIC character and how he lives his life and what drives him and these qualities you mention would not be part of that. For example, when dating a guy, I absolutely ask him all kinds of deep questions, I ask him his feelings/thoughts about therapy, I ask him how he handles stress in his life and what he does to help himself heal hurt, forgive etc. So I am looking and watching how he handles his own life. There is no way in a million years, I would ever date a guy who isn’t easily and effortlessly willing to submit himself to an expert for help. I will only date a guy who seeks help for himself, reads books, has accountability, explores his depths because THAT IS WHO HE IS. It’s how I live my life because it’s my personality. I can’t be any other way because it’s just not me, so my guy will be the same. So I NEVER worry that I will have to spend months or a ton of energy trying to “convince” him there is a problem or trying to convince him we need help. He will approach his life and challenges within our marriage similar to me because that is who he is. I will not accept anything less. Does that guarantee we will last forever or that he won’t change his mind about me down the road?? Nope. What it does guarantee though, is honesty, openness, like-mindedness and someone who approaches challenges in a similar way to me so we can navigate them better together. What it does guarantee is that I will have a man who has the ability to deeply know me and see me and hold space for me because he already does that for himself. What am I afraid of? I’m afraid of breaking up. I’m the type to love incredibly deep and I don’t offer that easily. I know there is no guarantee of anything, so it’s scary to open up full heartedly without any kind of guarantee of a lifelong connection. I’m afraid of being so deeply and madly in love and then he dies. That’s my biggest fear actually. And….with my fears, I also know that I have a skillset, I have an incredible group of very intelligent, wise, powerful women who can hold me up and help me, I have a coach who is the most brilliant healer and sage-like soul I have ever met and will kick my *ss as much as she needs to AND…all of these things combined with my years of doing my own deep healing work..I AM RESILIENT. I trust myself that I will turn any painful, breath-stealing, gut punching moment and transform it into the beauty and power it offers to anyone willing to take the journey. I know this about myself, because it’s who I have always been when those moments show up. This is what I mean about self-trust. Even if your worst fears come true Jennie, it’s about knowing you can rely on yourself to take those extremely challenging times and let it teach you, transform you, offer you the gems and beauty of strengthening yourself. Yes, it’s always painful, yes, it’s hard AND you are strong enough, intelligent enough and resourceful enough to become more of who you are BECAUSE of the challenge.
I just want to address this next and then we can go from there: I don’t understand what this is that’s inside me which seems to feel unworthy and low (as evidenced by my decisions, I’m gathering). Let’s just sum all of this up into 1 core program running in your system. It has various expressions of it, but it all leads back to 1 thing….you so desperately want to be loved. Growing up with a narcissistic father, your needs didn’t matter. You watched your mom’s needs not matter either. So the man of the house role modeled to you that your voice, your feelings, your opinions didn’t matter and your mom reinforced that by also playing staying in that role. Choosing a man lower functioning than you, allows you to be the “authority” so to speak and also continue hiding…which is what you are used to. This guy you are with right now has NO CLUE how to see you, care about your opinions, your feelings, your voice because he is in survival mode and only using you to keep himself alive. He is constantly plugging into YOU for his self-esteem instead of “sourcing” himself. He is relying on YOU to love him because he cannot love himself. So basically, you have picked your father, just with a different design. You are existing FOR HIM. This guy may not be narcissistic, but he is incredibly dysfunctional, therefore requires you to serve his needs. That little girl inside of you who only knows how to interact with a man by “serving” him and putting aside her own feelings and needs – that’s the part of you that is choosing this current man…not your adult side. Your wounded little girl is in the driver’s seat of your romantic life. Your wounded little girl gets to stay hidden and “safe” by being with a dysfunctional guy. Your wounded little girl is coming from a mindset of protecting you from being hurt because she doesn’t trust men. AND…she desperately needs to be loved. But the version of love she knows and understand is so distorted, so she doesn’t know any better. So…YOUR job as the “parent” is to teach her differently. Since you work with children, you understand this deeply. Take those same concepts, compassion and creativity and work with your own little girl and show her differently. YOU love her and connect with her and get back into the driver’s seat of your romantic life. She will kick and scream of course, but as the parent, you know differently, right? You know what she actually needs and so it’s time for you to step up and say no to this guy and go through the pain of separating from him. You are harming and enabling his own wounded little boy and being HIS mommy and ignoring your own little girl. Does this make sense?
This is a tough question that MANY people, including myself, can’t stand because of how much it puts the responsibility on you, but it’s a powerful question. What are you wanting HIM to do for you that you are not willing to do for yourself? The answer to this question is why you are choosing to stay with this guy. You guys are bonding through wounded, dysfunctional energy so you are both using each other for different reasons. So again, what are you wanting him to do for you, that you are not willing to do for yourself?
How can I tell if a man is well-sourced, as you call it? I know the hallmark signs of emotional intelligence (not that I always look for them), but I have no idea what to look for to see if a man is well-sourced. Does that mean he knows how to take care of himself and isn’t overly dependent? I’m not clear on what that term means. I love this question!!! Well, that looks different for everyone, but what I basically mean is that a guy who sources himself, does not rely on other external sources to feel happy. A guy who is well sourced is happy on the INSIDE and does not 100% rely on his outside world (friends, family, business, money, fitness etc.) to define his happiness. Imagine that we all are walking around with a surge protector on our backs (you know those extension cords with 5-6 outlets on them?). That surge protector is what is our source of happiness. People who source themselves, have all their own cords plugged into their own surge protectors. Your guy now along with you, have your cords plugged into each other’s surge protector. When we rely on OURSELVES to source our peace, our balance, our happiness, we are more resilient and solid because we don’t need anyone else or anything else to go “right” or to be “perfect” or to “behave” in any certain way in order for us to feel happy and balanced. Of course, we get knocked off our center, but we source ourselves to get connected again. An example of this would be forgiveness. Sooooo many people want and need the “offending” person who hurt them to apologize or take responsibility for their actions in order to feel “closure.” That is relying on someone else to behave in a certain way in order to feel better. For me, I source myself by forgiving and releasing ALL of my negative feelings and hurt WITHOUT needing the other person to apologize or be anything other than what they want to be. Of course it helps repair the connection if the person takes responsibility, but my happiness and inner peace is not reliant upon them doing that. If they choose not to apologize or take responsibility, then I manage my expectations of the connection and move on…and I work with my emotions until there literally is ZERO negativity left over. That is me sourcing myself. Does this explain it better?
Heidi
Oh! I wanted to also quickly address the fear and thoughts around having a bad marriage. First and foremost, there is never any guarantee. Even if you married a super great guy, 20 years into marriage, you or he could shift and before you know it, you are heading in different directions. Love is a risk, every single day. There is no way around that.
So I want to bring in a new perspective here. First, you are not trusting yourself. When you don’t trust yourself, then you end up making a lot of decisions from an energy of fear. So let’s talk about trust for a second. The most important and foundational trust to have is with yourself…and then you can build your life on a solid foundation. Here is how I like to look at it. I’ll just use a common example that a lot of women have a fear about. They will say “I don’t know if I can trust him not to cheat on me.” Well, it’s true that everyone and anyone is capable of cheating under the right circumstances. So if that’s true, then where does that leave you? Worried all the time and living with fear in the back of your mind that acts as a barrier to connection and intimacy. So let’s turn that around. The truth is, you can trust yourself. What that looks like is this “I trust that if he cheats on me…I will be okay. I trust that I am resourceful. I trust that I am resilient. I trust that I can heal. I trust that although I will hurt, I will find joy again. I trust that I become stronger and more resilient by going through that betrayal.” That’s the kind of trust we need to have with ourselves in order to navigate the adventures and mis-adventures that show up with love. It’s a self-trust like this, that allows you to risk. It’s a self-trust like this, that allows you open your heart, even though you are afraid. It’s a self-trust like this, that allows you to actually truly enjoy the moment instead of letting fear of the future rob you of the beauty in front of you.
Developing self-trust is crucial. The other piece here is educating yourself more about what to look for in a man that sets you up for success. There are MANY layers to this. This is actually one of my favorite topics and could talk about this for hours! But I think this can get quite overwhelming, so I’ll refer you to the gotten institute, since that is a super powerful resource. They have studied relationships and what makes them work and not work for 3 decades and what the science is revealing is amazing. I mean, it’s common sense on one hand, but on the other hand, there are a lot of nuances that are beautiful. They put out a lot of amazing information. Their books are super badass and informative, so it’s a great resource for you to explore when you are ready. I would suggest start with this book. I know it was written for a man, however it’s extremely impactful for a woman to truly see the kind of man that works and doesn’t work in relationship. It’s a super simple read that I love. https://a.co/d/4Mz2uf7
Their website is http://www.gottman.com
Hope this isn’t too much information all at once!
Heidi
Hi Jennie,
Oh my goodness. I soooo know the feeling of being “exposed” and lancing that painful boil. Great analogy by the way!!! I love love love your honesty, your confusion, your vulnerability and your authenticity. It truly is beautiful and regardless of you feeling exposed and embarrassed, which I understand, I want you to know that I respect you. You have an incredible amount of strength to show up the you have so far, to be able to receive what I have shared (which I knew would not be easy and even contemplated if I should share so bluntly) is not easy at all. But you did it, owned it, was honest about your reaction and you know what??? That strength makes you an incredible leader, partner, teammate, friend and soul sister. So…amidst your embarrassment, allow in the respect and honor and compassion that you so desperately need to give that part of yourself that needs you!
I don’t know why I would choose a man like this guy unless I’m scared of ending up in a bad marriage (I can easily imagine things seeming great with a man all the way until I’m married and then I’d realize I have zero autonomy, he is a jerk, he takes me for granted and/or is indifferent in general, and I would wish with all my heart that I had just stayed on my own). I don’t know. Well, let’s explore this, because it’s not okay to not know. Your heart is the most sacred, special, valuable part of you and deserves to be honored and respected by you…something that is not happening by choosing a man this dysfunctional.
Here is my educated guess that may help you get started down this path. Know that I am happy to explore the depths with you, as long as you are willing, so you take the lead on this: My guess is, you have an INCREDIBLY BIG heart. You love deeply and care with all your heart and offer a lot of compassion and empathy for those who struggle and suffer. This is an incredible gift you have. It is NOT a common thing to have a heart as big as yours. It’s probably why you became a counselor. You want to help people in their most vulnerable difficult areas of their lives. As with any gift or “super power” there is also a darker side. Our greatest strengths are always our greatest weaknesses, right? So although you are incredibly loving and compassionate, it’s gotten mucked up along the way when it comes to your value. My guess is, you probably developed a co-dependent pattern: meeting the needs of others at the expense of yourself. This typically develops amidst a narcissist parent or guardian: meeting the needs of the self at the expense of others. So if “dependence” is your pattern, especially when it comes to love and romance, you will find and be attracted to men who NEED you. It’s how you KNOW your value. You get to feel needed, valuable, like you matter, you get to feel like the hero by reducing or helping your partner and in order to get to play that role and fill those needs of yours, you need to find a dysfunctional man who operates at a lower level than you. A healthy man wouldn’t need you. A healthy man doesn’t need you to solve his problems. A healthy man knows how to source himself. A healthy man will love and value that beautiful heart of yours, but also require that you take care of your own needs and not rely on his dysfunction to feel good about yourself. Many years ago, I came across a program that called this the “winning formula.” It’s how we ALL show up in relationship to feel valued, sourced, purposeful and successful in connection. I immediately saw my own winning formula and throughout the years, realized how I would also choose a guy lower functioning than me so I could be the “more evolved” one and rescue him somehow. Always I would hear something to the affect of “I’ve never met anyone like you. You know me and care about me like no one ever has before….” That, of course, was my drug. I came across a few men who actually knew as much as I did and they didn’t need me to teach them or show them anything. They enjoyed me sharing, but that’s about it. I found myself asking internally, “What value do I have to this man? Why would he be interested in me if I have nothing new to share or teach him?” Hahaha! I remember really realizing how much I relied on my “winning formula” for my value. Basically, it has been a journey ever since to develop my own inner love, be my own source of self-esteem and KNOW I am valuable and lovable regardless of what I know. Does this make sense? I had to take a journey back to where I was taught by my narcissist father about my value. I had to undo a lot of programming. Now, I am much more free to be myself and have zero interest in taking care of or rescuing anyone. Now…my standard is that if a guy gets to be in my inner circle, he better have very high emotional intelligence and better be extremely well sourced…or he doesn’t get to be part of my life.
So basically, you need to turn your efforts of wanting to rescue this guy onto yourself. Rescue yourself. This guy DOES NOT have the ability to love you the way your beautiful sacred heart needs to be loved. So…you cannot expect someone else to give you what you are not even giving yourself. Love yourself first.
There is soooooo much more to say, but I’ll stop with this and see where it lands for you.
Heidi
Hi Jennie! Welcome! Thank you for sharing this really hard situation you are going through. You obviously care for him, but seem quite confused at the same time as to what to do about the imbalance happening. Let’s explore this a bit:
I genuinely care about this man, but I’m aware that our relationship is imbalanced at this point, and I wonder if that means it always would be (or if he could get better and things would even up more). Who knows. No one can predict what is going to happen even within the day. The thing is…you know the relationship is out of balance quite a bit, but you are holding onto the “idea” or “fantasy” of what could be. You are holding onto the potential vs. what is happening RIGHT NOW. So if you were to truly connect to the RIGHT NOW and based your decision on what you DO know instead of what you DON’T know, then I think you would have a pretty clear answer for yourself.
Based on the facts listed on paper, I guess it seems like a no-brainer that I should just dump the guy, but he seems so genuine; I daydream that rather than giving up on him, I could somehow ignite his hero instinct and help him see that he’s already doing amazing, more than he gives himself credit for. I’m wondering why him being “genuine” is such a powerful thing for you. Maybe you haven’t had much experience with that?? If every guy were genuine in their efforts and that was something you experienced all the time and it was normal trait, would this guy be worth fighting for? Being genuine is nice of course, but that can only take you so far. As you already know, him being genuine DOES NOT change that the relationship is out of balance, he is not emotionally available for you and he is very low functioning and wounded and using you as a way to source himself. So does his being genuine really matter?
Is he doing amazing??? I’d say he is barely hanging on. He is NOT doing amazing as a partner for you. He is NOT doing amazing at being present for you and your needs. He is NOT doing amazing at being high functioning and healing his wounds. He is doing enough to survive in his life and still keep going, but as far as being a partner for you…he has a long way to go before I’d say he is doing amazing. Your desire to even activate his hero instinct is your effort in trying to save him. This is a simple technique and works well with people who have enough self-esteem to receive it. This guy is lacking quite a bit in this area of his life. So no, this technique won’t work with someone in the state he is in.
I think he’s scared of letting me down, scared to get too close. He’s constantly protecting himself, whereas I’m more open and comfortable with emotional intimacy. You are more open and comfortable with emotional intimacy?? I’m wondering…how true is this considering you are choosing to be with a man who is the opposite of that. The one person you invite into the depths of your heart and your inner world is depressed, low functioning, closed off, fearful and extremely wounded. Where is the emotional intimacy in that? I have no doubt, being a counselor, you are incredibly comfortable being emotionally intimate with other people’s feelings. However, it seems by your choice, that it doesn’t quite transfer to your own heart, your personal world and intimacy with a man.
How does all of this make you feel?
Heidi
The current guy I’m seeing seems anti-social as well. What makes him seem anti-social? If you already sense this in him, what is making you stay with this guy? My guess is, you don’t quite trust yourself.
When we choose to connect with someone deeply and allow them into our innermost circle, we have to look at the energy that is choosing this person. First, it’s IMPORTANT to understand that CONNECTION DOES NOT EQUAL COMPATIBILITY. Just because there is connection and chemistry, does not mean the relationship will work. So take the chemistry and connecting part and see what is left. How do you talk to each other? Do you feel safe and open with that person? Do you feel listened to? Do you feel that he is curious about you? Do you feel like he deeply wants to know and understand your inner workings?
I’m thinking that a person with healthy relationships with family and friends may be good to look out for. I would not base a green flag on whether or not they have good family relationships. We cannot help who our family members are. Friends however, being that we can CHOOSE our friends, that is a good thing to look out for. BUT…they may have really close friends, yet they are people you don’t enjoy or like. What “healthy” is, really is relative to the person.
So let’s look at that…what do you think a “healthy” relationship is? How does it function? What does it look like? How do you know it’s healthy vs. unhealthy?
If you have new questions, feel free to post them here. Again, it’s easier for me to respond to all your questions when they are in one spot. Or…maybe you are creating a different thread because you are wanting others’ opinions?? It’s not common for other members to post and offer their opinions. Every once in a while someone will offer their opinion, but mostly I am the one responding to all the posts.
In regards of when to have sex, that is such a great question. But I want to hear from you first. In order for you to enjoy connecting with a man that way, what needs to be in place for you? How do you want to feel with a man while having sex? I imagine you have had various experiences to be able to know what works well for you and what doesn’t. Share some of this.
I personally don’t refer to “research” when it comes to this particular topic. This is such a personal decision, so what is more important is for you to know yourself. Sex is something, in my opinion, quite sacred and so incredibly special. Obviously, it can just be a physical exchange as well. The sooner you have sex with a man, the more of a physical transaction it will be. The more time spent with him, the more trust that is built, the safer you both feel with each other, the more emotional/spiritual/connective sex can become. How long does it take to achieve that? It depends on the people, the level of emotional intelligence they have, how connected they are to their bodies and desires and even the phase of life they are in. So there really are many variables that influence the level of intimacy between a couple. So this really about you and your relationship with your body, sex and intimacy. This is an incredibly layered topic. Have you ever studied, researched or learned from experts or specialists about your own sexuality and the expression of it?
Heidi
Hi Surrendra,
Okay…let’s dig in!
It sounds like you are familiar with narcissists, so what is important to understand is that you have been “programmed” to be a certain way when it comes to relating to others. Even though you don’t want to be with a narcissist, you chose them anyways because that is what you are used to, that is what is “comfortable” for you and you know how to exist with a narcissist.
The way to avoid choosing another narcissist in the future comes from you. It’s more than just recognizing those qualities in someone else. The MOST IMPORTANT aspect is for you to pay attention to yourself. How do you feel around them? You want to feel valued, you want to feel like they are curious about you and want to deeply know you, you want to feel like they are connected to you in all areas, you want to feel that they listen to you and care about your feelings, especially during conflict. The most important thing to understand is that it’s the worst of a person that will break a connection. It doesn’t matter how amazing they are and how connected you are together when things are good….if none of that exists when things are bad, you will end up in divorce. So when dating, you want to observe how the other person treats you, treats others, treats themselves when they are under stress. Do they stay connected or do they disengage? Do they blame you or care about how you feel? Do they take ownership of their own pain and their own decisions in a situation or do they just point the finger at everyone else? Do they communicate respectfully or do they become critical?
The other thing to pay attention to is your own intuition. You KNOW what a narcissist feels like. You grew up with them and you dated them. To avoid that experience again, it’s about you LISTENING to yourself. I guarantee you knew your ex had narcissistic tendencies from the beginning, but you most likely just ignored yourself and kept moving forward with him….people do that because they want the connection more than paying attention to the flags going up. So FROM THE VERY BEGINNING…if you are sensing something doesn’t feel okay for you….PAY ATTENTION and explore what you are feeling. Look for more signs, conversations, interactions, decisions they are making to either support or negate what you are sensing. I call this the “investigative reporter” mindset. Your heart is SACRED and so incredibly unique and special. Any guy wanting access to that part of you has to go through SEVERAL layers of “interviews” with you before they are “hired” for the job to care for your heart. An investigative reporter researches, asks a million questions, observes reactions and behaviors….all to put the pieces of the puzzle together for their story. This is the mindset you need to be dating from. Any less than this, means you are not valuing and protecting the most sacred part of you….your heart. Be discerning, be protective, be cautious and be observing – and still be connective and open. Does this make sense?
Let’s talk about the guy you are talking with currently that you asked about in your other thread. You asked if it’s a red flag that he may be moving quite fast. So let’s put what I talked about into action. Something in you, your intuition, is questioning this…you came here to do some research and ask for a professional opinion. Well done!!! Instead of me telling you, if you were to truly listen to this thing you are sensing…that little voice or feeling you about this, what would it be saying? What do you FEEL about the pace he is moving at? What kinds of thoughts come up about how he is approaching dating? Does it make you feel open or does it tend to close you down a bit??
Heidi
I will respond to this on your other post. It will be easier for me to just merge everything together and we can talk about all of it in one place. Great questions!
Heidi
I’m curious Surendra, I answered your other post about you always liking narcissists. And then you are here talking about a guy you like and it sounds like has real potential for you. So I’m a bit confused. Is this guy NOT a narcissist? How long have you been dating?
You are correct…everyone is different. Do you want children as well? Whatever complicated issues you have, are you willing to go through whatever it takes to have children?
My approach is, to be honest. Not everyone will agree with me though. I am not a fan of the “rules” of how to behave and when someone is supposed to say something etc. My only guideline is to be authentic and trust that the pieces fall exactly where they are supposed to. If a guy is truly going to be able to go the distance with me, it will be because he really is attracted to and like ME….the FULL ME. If he ends up falling for only PART of me, what good is that? On the other hand, there absolutely are things I DO NOT share with a guy until I know he can handle certain things. A guy has to earn the right to know my innermost heart, experiences, thoughts and feelings.
I would say that your medical issues are not really something that has to be discussed or shared UNTIL you actually know that you and this guy are an item and growing closer. I’m not sure how long you have been dating or if you guys are exclusive or not. Do you know for sure that he is totally into you? Have you guys talked about building a future together?
Heidi
Hi Sally,
Welcome! It seems like you are quite confused about this guy because his actions and behaviors did not always align with each other. Do you know what this means??? He has a lack of integrity. After all of this messaging, it also sounds like you guys have never even met in person. So typically when a guy is connective and then not and doesn’t follow through on setting up a way to meet in person, that is a MASSIVE red flag. I’m not saying it’s true for this guy, but typically guys that play that kind of game are already in a relationship. They are just online getting attention and looking to get some quick fixes of a self esteem boost by hooking women.
But let’s just ignore that and simply look at the fact that you don’t trust what he says. You have a sense that he is playing games. So…just from that alone, I’m wondering why you are still trying to connect with this guy. Regardless of how good he made you feel sometimes, he ALSO is not consistent. He is there and then he isn’t. That is telling you he is not emotionally available in the way that you want and need. What is keeping you connected to him? What is stopping you from closing the door on this guy permanently and moving on?
Heidi
Hi Mounika,
Welcome! We are glad you are here. Men are incredibly confusing sometimes aren’t they? I know it’s a bit shocking to feel them connected and then out of nowhere, they are gone and disengaged.
You mentioned that you think it’s because of your insecurities. What makes you think that? Did he tell you it’s because of your insecurities? Or are you guessing?
What specific insecurities are you referring to? How did you express them?
Did you guys agree to be exclusive or were you both still dating other people?
Heidi
Hi Surendra!
Welcome!!! These are some pretty significant questions and great questions to ask. There is a lot to discuss!!!
Let’s just start here:
Help me understand what you know about narcissists.
1. How do you know they are narcissistic?
2. How are they treating you?
3. Do you know they have narcissistic tendencies in the beginning and you choose to date them anyways?
4. What do you find attractive about narcissists?
5. Did you grow up with a parent or guardian or sibling who had narcissistic tendencies?What does marriage material look like? Well that is different and unique to each person, but there is a foundation to a successful relationship. How about we start with you telling me what you NEED to feel in a relationship.
Heidi
Hi Adelaine,
It sounds like there is still some good connection happening between you guys. I’m wondering what is happening for you that you get upset when he cancels. You have a part of you that thinks he may be lying and you become rude. So basically, if he is not responding or behaving in the way YOU need him to, you get upset. This is something to REALLY look at within yourself. Soooooo many times, your guy is not going to behave or respond the way you want him to, so learning how to navigate this more without become rude and upset is important for you. The first thing to do is to look at what story you are creating in your mind that causes you to feel upset. So what is your mind telling you? What EXACTLY is causing you to get upset and become rude and passive aggressive?
I’m not sure if I am understanding you correctly, but it sounds like you feel like him going on this trip for the internship is the “end” of your relationship. Am I understanding you correctly? If yes, how come you feel it is the “end?”
Heidi
