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Hi Debi!
Thank you for writing in and taking a chance here!
You have some good questions and a sticky situation. I first want to encourage you about your fear of him lying to you. There is one side of you that will be fearful more easily than others, because your last husband lied to you so much. AND….at the same time, you are VERY familiar with what lying can look and feel like. Something in you is uncomfortable and regardless, it’s important for you to pay attention to that. That uncomfortableness may be fear or it may be accurate….and reality is, you cannot tell the difference because it all feels exactly the same. So what do you do? I encourage people to gather more information. Ask questions, do some under cover research, talk directly about it. There are many approaches and you need to decide what works best for you until you feel resolved. If you are getting more information showing you that he is NOT lying yet you continue to pursue looking for more information and you still feel uncomfortable, then you know you are dealing more with your fear.
And when you asked him if he is using you and to just tell you, no man in his right mind would be honest about that! He would not want to bear the hurt that would cause you and if he IS using you, admitting to it would mean he would not get to use you anymore, because I imagine you would cut things off. So a better way to handle something like that is instead of asking if he is using you, talk about how you are feeling used and talk about how it would be nice if you guys could create a different design. If you don’t want to feel used (I imagine you feel used for your money) then set some boundaries. Stop giving him money and paying for everything and see how you both endure something like that together. Does he stay or does he go? When people feel used, it really is not about the other person, it is about themselves. They are not setting boundaries and they are feeling “walked all over” so to speak. So the power is really in your hands about asking for what you need. He is going to treat you how he does until you tell him otherwise. Would you be interested in setting some boundaries and asking for something different so you don’t feel used anymore? You can say something like, “I care about you and I have so much fun with you and it is because of that, that I want to work through something with you. I am feeling used and I know you say that you are not using me. This is really about me and just simply needing to create something a little different for myself. I am not setting boundaries for myself and it is causing me to lose myself. So I would like to set some boundaries now and see how it goes. We can try this for 3 months and then let’s check back in and talk about it. I’ve decided that I am no longer going to pay for vacations, loan you money or pay for our outings anymore. I am however, absolutely willing to pay for my part, as I know you have little money right now. I know this may mean that we won’t go out as much, but you know what??? We can get creative! We can find ways of enjoying each other’s company without needing to spend money. We can play card games, we can cook dinners together, we can go volunteer somewhere together…I don’t know. All I know is that this is important for me and my growth as a person and our growth as a couple. What do you think?”
Does this make sense? You have full capability to take back your power and be part of the design of this relationship.
What are your thoughts about this?
I want to address your concern of him cheating on you real quick. Again, before you start making up a story as to why he is not around as much, see if you can gather information in a more indirect way. Do you have any ideas about how you can do that?
Heidi
Hi Danna,
Interesting. His father was selfish (narcissistic type of behavior) which usually attracts a more dependent type of partner. That could mean that his mother spent most of her time meeting everyone else’s needs except her own. Whatever the details of his parents, they were the role models. It sounds like he may have picked up some of those qualities of being selfish role modeled by his father maybe. He may have a great relationship with his mom, but it doesn’t mean it is a healthy one. If she spends her time obligingly serving him and he gets his needs met, everyone would be happy in the roles they agreed to, but not necessarily in a healthy way. Who knows….
I want you to consider for a moment that everything he accused you of, has some truth in it….for him. Here is an example. Let’s just say that his mother gave him everything he wanted and didn’t ask for much in return from him. Then here you are asking for things from him. For you, coming from an over-controlling background, you have toned it down quite a bit and don’t think you are controlling at all, but for him, coming from an under-controlling background, it feels like a lot for him. Everyone’s perspective about a situation usually has a grain of truth in it.
You are defensive about what he says and his experiences about you….at least in these messages. I want to invite you to see how maybe HIS experience does have some truth in it….FOR HIM. It does not mean that it is true, it just means it is HIS truth. When someone criticizes me, I really try to look at how it could be true what they are saying. Then I try to filter, the best I can between it being THEIR truth or a truth in general. I look at past experiences and see if I have heard that same type of criticism before, what exactly did I do to make them feel that way and finally….do I need to pay attention to it or decide to not give it much authority in my life?
It’s not a bad idea that you offered about getting his testosterone checked. Something is very different and hormones or some type of chemistry could totally be off. It’s too bad that he is not willing to fight for himself. It also makes me so sad that the therapist made you feel ganged up on. Sadly, I have heard that over and over from couples over the years. Their experiences are that a therapist had a tendency to take sides and nothing really got resolved and sometimes the couple was worse off.
Bottom line is, he has changed. He is who he is today and sadly, he is mean spirited and not interested at all in working on himself. I am so sorry! It’s such a powerless feeling.
I am glad to hear that you are working on yourself and moving forward instead of trying to rescue him in some way. From what it sounds like, your efforts would just be met with more resistance and verbal abuse and that would break you down even further.
Do you have anyone who is able to help you through this and process all of your hurt feelings??
Heidi
Hi Danna,
I am so sorry about what you are dealing with. It’s awful. It’s so sad. He really is missing out on growing and learning with you. It seems that he would rather be in pain than to work through it and that is always a sad choice when someone takes that path.
I first want to help you understand “why” he is making a choice like this. I obviously don’t know the details of who he is, so I will speak in general terms. My first instinct is that he feels very resentful from what you are describing AND he is very connected to you as well. He is split. One side of him loves you, connects with you, is your best friend and the other side of him is resentful, angry and hurt. I imagine that those pretty intense, darker emotions started waaaaaay before he met you. Whatever he is hurting about, it’s lived there a loooong time and finally reached it’s tipping point.
As young people, we are so much more resilient. We are able to survive very challenging events in life. However, if someone never works through those intense events, the emotions and feelings about those events stay stored in the mind and body. Then over time, those emotions become bigger and bigger because usually other things will happen in life that feel similar. For example, let’s say he was always picked last for the sports teams at recess as a kid. He would store that hurt and feel rejected and then anytime something else happened where he felt rejected (he got stood up on a date), it would just make the original wound of rejection to grow even bigger. Eventually, it is not uncommon for someone to have a “break” so to speak. They can only carry that baggage that gets heavier and heavier for so long, before they just can’t take it anymore. That is why, many times, you see older people (usually over 50 – brain chemistry changes for men around that age especially – it’s around 30 for women) where diseases show up, life transitions happen and people are more bitter, angry and unhappy. Their emotional system does not have the resilience that was there as a younger person, so all that baggage begins to creep into their life and rear it’s ugly head. That is why is it CRUCIAL to always process anything that causes pain. You don’t want anything to build up. It will ruin your life someday, as it has your husband’s.
So basically, one side of him (the adult) was much stronger for awhile, taking the driver’s seat and being a husband to you. Now, the other side to him, the childish side throwing a tantrum, is taking a turn at the driver’s seat. And it is soooooo strong. How long he chooses to let that side of him stay in control? Who knows….everyone is different. Reality is, he needs some help. If he is ever to get control of this side of him, he needs to face whatever started this in first place and work on forgiving. It was his child who sat on the couch while you worked like crazy. And it is his child who is resentful of you. When you participated in that design, you were playing the role of his mother, so I imagine a lot of his anger might be coming from his experiences with his mom. It is his child who is saying all those mean and hurtful things to you. He is hurting so badly (although he probably only feels anger at this point) and you are the closest, easiest and probably most satisfying target for all his hurt.
Reality is, there is nothing you can do except to protect yourself from further hurt at this point. He flipped the switch, so it is crucial for you to stay out of the way. You do not need to be taken down with him. He has YEARS built up inside of him and he has lost control. His anger, hurt and resentment are in the driver’s seat right now. He is the one who needs to figure this out. If you try to help him through this, there will be many battle wounds you will incur along the way AND you will be playing the mommy role again for him. He needs to rescue himself now.
Love yourself enough to not allow him to use you as a target anymore. Love him enough (unconditionally like you said) to let him be who he needs to be right now and forgive him and let him go. He needs to take this path he has chosen. And maybe this path will take him into enough discomfort that he will finally get some help.
Even though you have been together for 27 years and caused him hurt many times, because that is what we do as humans, you are not responsible for his hurt. An adult would talk with you through things (which it sound likes he used to)….a child will throw a tantrum, blame and lash out. An adult is able to reason and take responsibility….a child is pure emotion and does not react from logic, care and concern. So for now, he is pure child….and he gets to do that. There obviously are HUGE consequences to this, so it’s best to let him experience that and move on with your life.
I think I will just leave it at that for now. Have you ever thought about it this way? If you worked with a therapist (good job) then I imagine this may not be new information for you.
I am so sorry. It’s just so sad. It’s heartbreaking. You know the other side to him that is wonderful and connective and that’s what can make this soooo difficult. You have to let that side of him go. I’m just so sorry!
We would love to hear your thoughts on this!
heidi
Hi again!
I have no idea if this will resonate with you, but I was watching this and for some reason felt the desire to share it. Hope you enjoy!!!
Heidi
Hi Nikitha,
I’m so sorry you are going through this. I know you don’t want a heartbreak….it feels awful and is very confusing, especially when there are no clear answers.
Just because a guy is with a girl for 5 years does not mean he is not capable of dating more than 1 woman. Many people will sometimes go on a “shopping spree” so to speak, especially if they were cheated on.
Here is the thing Nikitha….I know you were both were on the same exact page for 7 months. Now he has changed. If you keep living in the past, you will only keep being disappointed. It’s crucial for you to stay present and see him FOR WHO HE IS TODAY!!
You don’t want a heartbreak and you are doing everything to get him back, but reality is, he is hardly responding. Are you sure you want to keep fighting for a guy that is CLEARLY letting you know that his feelings for you have changed? SOMETHING has changed and he is not honoring you by letting you know his truth.
Why not just confront this head on? Ask him again. I would say something like, “Listen….we used to text every day and there was a lot of communication. Now there is barely any connection and now we talk once a week, if that. You are being very cordial with me. Obviously something has changed. What happened? Are you no longer interested? Did you meet someone else? Either way, something has changed and it feels like we are no longer on the same page….whether that means you needing to break this off or you want to re-connect and see each other in December, can we talk about this?”
You don’t know the guy very well and when you start an intimate relationship LONG DISTANCE….the odds immediately are stacked against you both. There is no way to build a relationship except through technology and most people NEED much more than that to get attached to someone. There needs to be touch, kissing, cuddling, seeing each other’s expressions, flirting, going places and creating memories together…all that stuff is the fuel that keeps the fire going. All you guys have had are words and imagination of who each other are and that is a VERY weak fuel for the fire.
Nikitha, it may be time to hit this head on and find out what’s going on and stop driving yourself crazy waiting for texts and playing hard to get. It’s driving you crazy! And what is driving you crazy is that you don’t have any answers. So get some. Wouldn’t you rather talk about this with him and get clear about what’s going on? THEN you can be at peace and move in whatever direction you both decide.
You are strong enough to handle whatever happens. Heartbreak….the worst case scenario here….is only temporary. You will hurt as you let the idea of him go AND YOU WILL HEAL and find your happiness again. Right now, you are so afraid of losing him that you are letting yourself be treated as an after thought. DO NOT let your fear of hurting keep you in a relationship where you are not getting your needs met. You are hurting anyways….every single day. You are feeling rejected by him….every single day. You deserve more than that. Maybe it’s time you fought to be treated the way you deserve. the way all of this started out. Do you not trust in yourself enough that you will be okay if this does not turn out the way you would like?
What do you think?
Heidi
Hi Beverly!
Thank you for writing in and trusting us with this personal situation of yours! You are asking some great questions…important questions!
The BIGGEST challenge about a new relationship, is dealing with the chemistry. It can feel sooooooo amazing and can strongly influence us to ignore the red flags. The chemistry can speed things up super fast, but can also cause a crash just as quickly. With any relationship, it’s advisable to take things slow if you are wanting something more serious….which sounds like is what you need. If you were just playing around and having fun, that’s a different story.
I can tell you right now that you are both on different pages. You are committed, he is not. You are inviting him into your life, he is not. You are pursuing / initiating and being VERY connective with all your pictures and texting / sexting and he is not (at least not as much as you are). My advice would be to slow this WAY down. He has done very little to earn your trust and your heart (the most valuable part of who you are!)
What I suggest first BEFORE anything is to decide what you want….THEN you can talk to him about that. So what is the design of relationship you are seeking with him?
Whatever he has done with other ladies up to now, doesn’t matter. There has been no real discussion nor agreement as “what” the parameters are. The only major thing to be careful of is to make sure he not married.
When you figure out what you want with him, let us know and then we can advise you about what would be a good next move. Either way though, I absolutely would invite you to be less available. Less pictures, less initiating….give him the chance to pursue you. If you are constantly pursuing, he doesn’t get to or have to do anything. When you pull back and give him the space to be the pursuer, you will learn a lot about him.
Does all of this make sense?
Hi Ki,
It sounds like you are very clear about what you want, but just struggling to accept your choice. I hope you find peace in your choice. It’s sooooo easy to say “let it go” and fully accept and embrace your choice, but hardly easy to do.
Keep focusing on yourself in the meantime.
Do you have anymore questions or want to discuss this further?
Heidi
Hi Barbara!
I’m sorry to hear this. I know how hard it is to feel bad about hurting someone and then they won’t let you make it up to them. I do just want to mention that it’s important for you to see this about him. This is who he is when his feelings get hurt. He disconnects from you and punishes you by being nasty and then pulling his energy back from you. I want you to know and be aware that this is how he is going to treat you in the future as well. This is how he will treat you whenever you cause him hurt. He is revengeful and most likely holds grudges.
Now onto your question. Give him a little time. He is hurt and that revengeful spirit will eventually subside. One of the best ways to deal with a revengeful type of person is to take away their ability to revengeful by not participating and setting a boundary. I know this may sound scary because you might thing it will push him away, but it actually can pull him back faster than anything AND also help teach him a different way to deal with you.
You set a boundary by teaching him how to treat you. Nasty messages and disconnecting is not okay for you. You can say something like this:
“listen, I am so sorry that I hurt you. I care very deeply for you and it makes me sad that I caused you pain. It’s the last thing I want to ever do. I want to resolve this with you and talk to you about it, but you are obviously not ready for that. I have made many attempts to re-connect, but it’s just not working. So I’m just going to stop trying and let you take your time. Whenever you are ready to discuss this and resolve things, I am hear for you. I miss you and I love you.”
Revenge is something that can only serve him if you participate and it is a child-like way of handling things. By not participating and disconnecting, you are asking him to connect with you like an adult. Does this make sense?
How do you feel about saying something like this?
Heidi
Hi Louise!
I am so sorry to hear this. You must feel crushed! Being mature adults doesn’t mean you invite home whomever you want. Although the relationship is very new, you have spent so much time together which means a lot of bonding and growing together, so to come across this discovery hurts like crazy.
Since you do have trust issues in the past, I am wondering if you checked his phone when he wasn’t looking somehow? If yes, this can be a bit tricky, because if you confront him on this, you will have to admit that you were snooping on his phone which can lead to a trust issue on his end.
Truth is, you won’t be able to let this go and ignore it. You already have trust issues and now you feel like he broke your trust now, so everything he does and says is going to cause you suspicion. You will already have walls up around your heart just out of a natural reaction and he will feel that. So I think the best thing for you to do is clear the air and talk with him.
You can admit to seeing his phone and what you read. Being that you already have trust issues in the past, it’s important for you to talk with him about what happened and have an honest conversation. It is VERY important for you to stay open and listen and have a curious mindset so that he can feel safe to be open and honest with you instead of defensive and shut off. Gather information and see what he has to say about it all. THEN you can decide what you feel comfortable doing at that point once you have more information about it.If you don’t talk to him about it, you (just like any of us) will just make up stories in your head and it will drive you nuts! That is not healthy for you. This will be a good test for you both to see how you both handle this kind of stressful and emotional situation. You will learn something about him by how he responds and treats you. You will learn something about you guys TOGETHER and how you handle this kind of challenge. It can actually turn into something very bonding and way that trust can be built even more!
How do you feel about this? Do you feel okay about talking to him?Heidi
Hi Karisa,
I would suggest reading “What Men Secretly Want.” There is a lot of good information about how to build respect and healthy communication when talking about your needs. I know you don’t want to sound “needy.” How you communicate your needs will make all the difference in the world in how he receives it.
Also, I want to encourage you to really accept him exactly for who he is. The trap that many women fall into is fighting for a guy and falling in love with his potential. If you really want to fight for this guy, do it without expecting him to change. He is who he is right now. He deserves to be loved and accepted “as is” and not for who he could be. What if he never changes? If he does change, it needs to come from him. The more he feels the pressure from you to change by being more consistent and reliable and open, the more he will most likely shut down. So as Kanya was saying, step back. Let him be who he is, take it slow and see if just leaving him alone will help him feel more safe to open up with you. AND….just make sure you don’t lose yourself in the process. It’s very easy to get caught up in fighting for a guy who is not really emotionally available and lose yourself along the way.
Go read “What Men Secretly Want” and let us know more of your thoughts and questions!
Heidi
Hi Ki,
I am so sorry for what you are going through! I can understand the battle you are dealing with. I want to offer a different approach and maybe it would give you a direction that makes you feel more comfortable. 2 main things I want to point out:1. If I were your therapist, I would not spend any time on trying to convince you to leave or stay. What I would want to focus on is the fact that you are betraying yourself. You are monogamous. You want a deep, committed and healthy relationship that can go the distance, yet you are choosing to participate in something that is not supporting you and the way you function…..you instead of choosing to have a relationship with rejection and jealousy and you are miserable. As your therapist, I would want to understand the root cause and belief system that makes this okay for you. You have been very uncomfortable and jealous for 5 years and you are willing to live that way for the rest of your life. So this situation is not really about him at all. This is about you. You are giving your power away. So what is causing this? Usually, there are some underlying wounds, deep inside, that influence decisions like this. Past relationships, bad experiences, poor parenting…..who knows, but something is driving you to stay in this. I know you want to believe it is all about love. You love him THAT much that you are willing to fight for him and change. Of course you love him and have a lot of history with him AND there is a point where love is not enough. Beyond love, there needs to be respect, generosity, care, compromise, trust and support by BOTH people. So as a therapist, I would also want to look at where you got your definition of love from? I would want to look at where you first learned about love and my PRIMARY focus through all of that….my PRIMARY goal would be to help learn to love YOURSELF better.
2. The 2nd aspect I would want you to do is to continue finding ways to bring joy into your life and build your self esteem. What kinds of things are you doing away from him to have fun? Do you do anything creative? Do you hike? Do you have an animal to love? I would want you to fill your life with activities that are fulfilling and nourishing. You are going through so much right now and it’s important for you to flood yourself with pleasure and joy. Find activities that make you laugh a lot. I have a set of short youtube videos that crack me up. They are 5 to 10 minutes long and when I find myself low on energy or when I am hurting, I will sometimes watch those videos 10x a day to make sure I keep filling my system with the good stuff.I really would invite you to stop trying to figure this out. All the research, information and advice you gather will not change the fact that you are uncomfortable with this. So let yourself be uncomfortable and find a therapist who will work with YOU and not focus on the relationship itself. That will resolve itself in time whether you choose to stay or go. When you focus on yourself and your healing, whatever you choose to do eventually, you will be more peaceful about that.
Does this make sense??
Hi Angele,
Any more thoughts or questions? Have you decided on a path you would like to take? We would love to hear back from you.
Heidi
Hi Nathalie,
We haven’t heard back from you so I thought I would check in and see how you were doing. Do you have anymore thoughts or questions you want to share? Would love any thoughts you have about the guidance you received.
Heidi
Hi Beverly!
Just to add to what Kanya is saying, have you ever seen the show “Lie to Me?” It’s fascinating! It’s all about body language and all the subtle and unconscious reactions we all have that expose what we are REALLY feeling! Just like Kanya is saying, one body position could mean several different things….it depends on many variables. This show was based on the work of Dr. Paul Ekman who has studied micro-expressions extensively. He even offers a short course to the public if you want to start learning all this stuff you are asking about. Here is his website: https://www.paulekman.com/
Enjoy!
Heidi
