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Hi Jennie! Welcome! Thank you for sharing this really hard situation you are going through. You obviously care for him, but seem quite confused at the same time as to what to do about the imbalance happening. Let’s explore this a bit:
I genuinely care about this man, but I’m aware that our relationship is imbalanced at this point, and I wonder if that means it always would be (or if he could get better and things would even up more). Who knows. No one can predict what is going to happen even within the day. The thing is…you know the relationship is out of balance quite a bit, but you are holding onto the “idea” or “fantasy” of what could be. You are holding onto the potential vs. what is happening RIGHT NOW. So if you were to truly connect to the RIGHT NOW and based your decision on what you DO know instead of what you DON’T know, then I think you would have a pretty clear answer for yourself.
Based on the facts listed on paper, I guess it seems like a no-brainer that I should just dump the guy, but he seems so genuine; I daydream that rather than giving up on him, I could somehow ignite his hero instinct and help him see that he’s already doing amazing, more than he gives himself credit for. I’m wondering why him being “genuine” is such a powerful thing for you. Maybe you haven’t had much experience with that?? If every guy were genuine in their efforts and that was something you experienced all the time and it was normal trait, would this guy be worth fighting for? Being genuine is nice of course, but that can only take you so far. As you already know, him being genuine DOES NOT change that the relationship is out of balance, he is not emotionally available for you and he is very low functioning and wounded and using you as a way to source himself. So does his being genuine really matter?
Is he doing amazing??? I’d say he is barely hanging on. He is NOT doing amazing as a partner for you. He is NOT doing amazing at being present for you and your needs. He is NOT doing amazing at being high functioning and healing his wounds. He is doing enough to survive in his life and still keep going, but as far as being a partner for you…he has a long way to go before I’d say he is doing amazing. Your desire to even activate his hero instinct is your effort in trying to save him. This is a simple technique and works well with people who have enough self-esteem to receive it. This guy is lacking quite a bit in this area of his life. So no, this technique won’t work with someone in the state he is in.
I think he’s scared of letting me down, scared to get too close. He’s constantly protecting himself, whereas I’m more open and comfortable with emotional intimacy. You are more open and comfortable with emotional intimacy?? I’m wondering…how true is this considering you are choosing to be with a man who is the opposite of that. The one person you invite into the depths of your heart and your inner world is depressed, low functioning, closed off, fearful and extremely wounded. Where is the emotional intimacy in that? I have no doubt, being a counselor, you are incredibly comfortable being emotionally intimate with other people’s feelings. However, it seems by your choice, that it doesn’t quite transfer to your own heart, your personal world and intimacy with a man.
How does all of this make you feel?
Heidi
The current guy I’m seeing seems anti-social as well. What makes him seem anti-social? If you already sense this in him, what is making you stay with this guy? My guess is, you don’t quite trust yourself.
When we choose to connect with someone deeply and allow them into our innermost circle, we have to look at the energy that is choosing this person. First, it’s IMPORTANT to understand that CONNECTION DOES NOT EQUAL COMPATIBILITY. Just because there is connection and chemistry, does not mean the relationship will work. So take the chemistry and connecting part and see what is left. How do you talk to each other? Do you feel safe and open with that person? Do you feel listened to? Do you feel that he is curious about you? Do you feel like he deeply wants to know and understand your inner workings?
I’m thinking that a person with healthy relationships with family and friends may be good to look out for. I would not base a green flag on whether or not they have good family relationships. We cannot help who our family members are. Friends however, being that we can CHOOSE our friends, that is a good thing to look out for. BUT…they may have really close friends, yet they are people you don’t enjoy or like. What “healthy” is, really is relative to the person.
So let’s look at that…what do you think a “healthy” relationship is? How does it function? What does it look like? How do you know it’s healthy vs. unhealthy?
If you have new questions, feel free to post them here. Again, it’s easier for me to respond to all your questions when they are in one spot. Or…maybe you are creating a different thread because you are wanting others’ opinions?? It’s not common for other members to post and offer their opinions. Every once in a while someone will offer their opinion, but mostly I am the one responding to all the posts.
In regards of when to have sex, that is such a great question. But I want to hear from you first. In order for you to enjoy connecting with a man that way, what needs to be in place for you? How do you want to feel with a man while having sex? I imagine you have had various experiences to be able to know what works well for you and what doesn’t. Share some of this.
I personally don’t refer to “research” when it comes to this particular topic. This is such a personal decision, so what is more important is for you to know yourself. Sex is something, in my opinion, quite sacred and so incredibly special. Obviously, it can just be a physical exchange as well. The sooner you have sex with a man, the more of a physical transaction it will be. The more time spent with him, the more trust that is built, the safer you both feel with each other, the more emotional/spiritual/connective sex can become. How long does it take to achieve that? It depends on the people, the level of emotional intelligence they have, how connected they are to their bodies and desires and even the phase of life they are in. So there really are many variables that influence the level of intimacy between a couple. So this really about you and your relationship with your body, sex and intimacy. This is an incredibly layered topic. Have you ever studied, researched or learned from experts or specialists about your own sexuality and the expression of it?
Heidi
Hi Surrendra,
Okay…let’s dig in!
It sounds like you are familiar with narcissists, so what is important to understand is that you have been “programmed” to be a certain way when it comes to relating to others. Even though you don’t want to be with a narcissist, you chose them anyways because that is what you are used to, that is what is “comfortable” for you and you know how to exist with a narcissist.
The way to avoid choosing another narcissist in the future comes from you. It’s more than just recognizing those qualities in someone else. The MOST IMPORTANT aspect is for you to pay attention to yourself. How do you feel around them? You want to feel valued, you want to feel like they are curious about you and want to deeply know you, you want to feel like they are connected to you in all areas, you want to feel that they listen to you and care about your feelings, especially during conflict. The most important thing to understand is that it’s the worst of a person that will break a connection. It doesn’t matter how amazing they are and how connected you are together when things are good….if none of that exists when things are bad, you will end up in divorce. So when dating, you want to observe how the other person treats you, treats others, treats themselves when they are under stress. Do they stay connected or do they disengage? Do they blame you or care about how you feel? Do they take ownership of their own pain and their own decisions in a situation or do they just point the finger at everyone else? Do they communicate respectfully or do they become critical?
The other thing to pay attention to is your own intuition. You KNOW what a narcissist feels like. You grew up with them and you dated them. To avoid that experience again, it’s about you LISTENING to yourself. I guarantee you knew your ex had narcissistic tendencies from the beginning, but you most likely just ignored yourself and kept moving forward with him….people do that because they want the connection more than paying attention to the flags going up. So FROM THE VERY BEGINNING…if you are sensing something doesn’t feel okay for you….PAY ATTENTION and explore what you are feeling. Look for more signs, conversations, interactions, decisions they are making to either support or negate what you are sensing. I call this the “investigative reporter” mindset. Your heart is SACRED and so incredibly unique and special. Any guy wanting access to that part of you has to go through SEVERAL layers of “interviews” with you before they are “hired” for the job to care for your heart. An investigative reporter researches, asks a million questions, observes reactions and behaviors….all to put the pieces of the puzzle together for their story. This is the mindset you need to be dating from. Any less than this, means you are not valuing and protecting the most sacred part of you….your heart. Be discerning, be protective, be cautious and be observing – and still be connective and open. Does this make sense?
Let’s talk about the guy you are talking with currently that you asked about in your other thread. You asked if it’s a red flag that he may be moving quite fast. So let’s put what I talked about into action. Something in you, your intuition, is questioning this…you came here to do some research and ask for a professional opinion. Well done!!! Instead of me telling you, if you were to truly listen to this thing you are sensing…that little voice or feeling you about this, what would it be saying? What do you FEEL about the pace he is moving at? What kinds of thoughts come up about how he is approaching dating? Does it make you feel open or does it tend to close you down a bit??
Heidi
I will respond to this on your other post. It will be easier for me to just merge everything together and we can talk about all of it in one place. Great questions!
Heidi
I’m curious Surendra, I answered your other post about you always liking narcissists. And then you are here talking about a guy you like and it sounds like has real potential for you. So I’m a bit confused. Is this guy NOT a narcissist? How long have you been dating?
You are correct…everyone is different. Do you want children as well? Whatever complicated issues you have, are you willing to go through whatever it takes to have children?
My approach is, to be honest. Not everyone will agree with me though. I am not a fan of the “rules” of how to behave and when someone is supposed to say something etc. My only guideline is to be authentic and trust that the pieces fall exactly where they are supposed to. If a guy is truly going to be able to go the distance with me, it will be because he really is attracted to and like ME….the FULL ME. If he ends up falling for only PART of me, what good is that? On the other hand, there absolutely are things I DO NOT share with a guy until I know he can handle certain things. A guy has to earn the right to know my innermost heart, experiences, thoughts and feelings.
I would say that your medical issues are not really something that has to be discussed or shared UNTIL you actually know that you and this guy are an item and growing closer. I’m not sure how long you have been dating or if you guys are exclusive or not. Do you know for sure that he is totally into you? Have you guys talked about building a future together?
Heidi
Hi Sally,
Welcome! It seems like you are quite confused about this guy because his actions and behaviors did not always align with each other. Do you know what this means??? He has a lack of integrity. After all of this messaging, it also sounds like you guys have never even met in person. So typically when a guy is connective and then not and doesn’t follow through on setting up a way to meet in person, that is a MASSIVE red flag. I’m not saying it’s true for this guy, but typically guys that play that kind of game are already in a relationship. They are just online getting attention and looking to get some quick fixes of a self esteem boost by hooking women.
But let’s just ignore that and simply look at the fact that you don’t trust what he says. You have a sense that he is playing games. So…just from that alone, I’m wondering why you are still trying to connect with this guy. Regardless of how good he made you feel sometimes, he ALSO is not consistent. He is there and then he isn’t. That is telling you he is not emotionally available in the way that you want and need. What is keeping you connected to him? What is stopping you from closing the door on this guy permanently and moving on?
Heidi
Hi Mounika,
Welcome! We are glad you are here. Men are incredibly confusing sometimes aren’t they? I know it’s a bit shocking to feel them connected and then out of nowhere, they are gone and disengaged.
You mentioned that you think it’s because of your insecurities. What makes you think that? Did he tell you it’s because of your insecurities? Or are you guessing?
What specific insecurities are you referring to? How did you express them?
Did you guys agree to be exclusive or were you both still dating other people?
Heidi
Hi Surendra!
Welcome!!! These are some pretty significant questions and great questions to ask. There is a lot to discuss!!!
Let’s just start here:
Help me understand what you know about narcissists.
1. How do you know they are narcissistic?
2. How are they treating you?
3. Do you know they have narcissistic tendencies in the beginning and you choose to date them anyways?
4. What do you find attractive about narcissists?
5. Did you grow up with a parent or guardian or sibling who had narcissistic tendencies?What does marriage material look like? Well that is different and unique to each person, but there is a foundation to a successful relationship. How about we start with you telling me what you NEED to feel in a relationship.
Heidi
Hi Adelaine,
It sounds like there is still some good connection happening between you guys. I’m wondering what is happening for you that you get upset when he cancels. You have a part of you that thinks he may be lying and you become rude. So basically, if he is not responding or behaving in the way YOU need him to, you get upset. This is something to REALLY look at within yourself. Soooooo many times, your guy is not going to behave or respond the way you want him to, so learning how to navigate this more without become rude and upset is important for you. The first thing to do is to look at what story you are creating in your mind that causes you to feel upset. So what is your mind telling you? What EXACTLY is causing you to get upset and become rude and passive aggressive?
I’m not sure if I am understanding you correctly, but it sounds like you feel like him going on this trip for the internship is the “end” of your relationship. Am I understanding you correctly? If yes, how come you feel it is the “end?”
Heidi
Hi Adelaine,
I thought I’d check in and see how you are doing. Any updates or new experiences?
Heidi
There’s nothing to think about Sparky not reaching out. There’s no way for you to know the what or why of it and there is no pattern, so there’s nothing to worry about. When you say his language is rough, does that mean he cusses? And that is offensive to you, yes?
I’d like to hear more about your non-negotiables for a Christian man when you are less tired. This is really important for you to be clear on. What you are describing is quite general. The more specific you get, the better filter you will have in place to set yourself up for success.
Congrats on signing up for Mat Boggs program! I’m curious about what you are so scared of. I imagine he has a refund policy in place, so maybe take a breathe and know that you can always back out by a certain time if it doesn’t feel like the right fit. What made you sign up for it?
Heidi
Camp was near Yosemite. GORGEOUS!!! I left because I had a career as a Strength Coach. Also, it was a Christian camp and I didn’t quite align with all of their values, so 1 year of some amazing experiences, but it was just time to move on.
Sparky sounds really nice! I love that he is consistent. You are hesitant because he doesn’t have similar interests, yes? Is there anything else you are hesitant about?
I’d love to hear more about your requirements for a Christian man. Going to church with you, not swearing and reading the bible with you is what you have mentioned so far. Are those non-negotiables for you? Or is there some flexibility in these? I guess I’m looking for your Christian non-negotiables. What do you REQUIRE from your guy as a Christian?
Heidi
Hi Rebecca,
My heart deeply goes out to you. It’s so incredibly shocking and heartbreaking to find out something like this, especially after so many years of marriage. Betrayal has many layers to it that causes such incredibly deep hurt that affects every area of our lives.
One of the MOST DIFFICULT and PAINFUL things we have to do in life, is let people be who they want to be. The reality is, we have zero control over the choices other people make that affect us…and break our hearts.
I’m just going to be very straightforward here and I know it’s not what you want to hear, but maybe more what you need to hear. You have already lost your husband. He is connecting with another woman and although he is willing to try counseling, he is not willing to TRULY invest as long as he is still investing in another woman. Healing and repair of your marriage and the damage his cheating has caused cannot be worked through as long as he is still actively connecting with another woman. It’s like an addict entering into recovery while still doing drugs. It doesn’t work and it never will. Also, being that he has cheated before as well and this is not his first time, his way of coping with his unhappiness and the emptiness he feels inside is to source himself with women. This is a choice and behavior that needs to be addressed on his own if he is really going to start to make different decisions. He does not have integrity and doing couple’s counseling is not going to fix that. The issue lies within him and him alone, therefore needs to be directly worked on JUST BY HIM and is not something that can be fixed or healed in couple’s therapy. So….the truth you need to start embracing here is that you have already lost your husband. His heart is not with you. His heart is not with anyone. He is betraying himself all over the place by breaking his word physically, spiritually and emotionally… therefore will ALWAYS betray others. Even if he eventually gives up this girlfriend, there will be another one and another one and another one…until he addresses and works with the emptiness he carries within. He is not a man who is able to be intimately and deeply connected to anyone as he is not connected to himself. So I will say this again…you have already lost your husband. He is not available for you and may never have been. I don’t know. I know my parents divorced after 18 years of marriage due to extensive cheating by my father. He did the very best he could, but was a bad egg to begin with. But their journey together worked for a good amount of time…until it didn’t and it was time to go separate ways.
I hope there’s still a chance we can move on from this together. I am at a loss what to do next. There is no moving on from this “together” as there is no together here. He is not behaving or making decisions to support a “together” kind of mindset. As long as he is still with this other woman, he is choosing himself and not your marriage. You ask what to do next, but what you are really asking is “what do I do to get him back?” I understand that question as you do not want to give up on this relationship and the love you do have for him. The answer to that question is first and foremost, to accept who he is and the reality of what he is able to offer you. That means, you accept that he cheats, you accept that he feels empty inside and his way to fix how he feels is through surface connection and women and sex. You accept that he is quite limited and cannot offer you the deep, emotional, authentic intimacy your heart desires. In this acceptance, you have choices from there. 1. Align with having an open marriage 2. Disconnect and go your separate ways 3. Continue therapy and use it as a time to learn and grow for yourself and NOT with the goal of him changing his ways.
Here is another truth that is important for you to really begin to embrace. How we treat ourselves first and foremost, is how we teach others to treat us. He is betraying you and his word and his commitment to you and he has not intention of stopping. You are here trying to find a way to fix this and change it. You are betraying yourself. You are choosing to stay with a man who betrays you, because you are betraying yourself first. How many times in your marriage did you stay silent and not express your true feelings? How many times have you put your own needs aside in order to make him happy? How long has it been since you felt totally and completely fulfilled in your life? In your marriage? Anytime you decide to make someone else’s needs more important and more valuable than your own, you are betraying yourself. So the energy of betrayal that has shown up in your life through him, begins within you and how you treat yourself. There hasn’t been a person I have worked with who has been cheated on, that didn’t have some kind of betrayal energy running in their own system. Whether it was through them staying silent and not expressing their true thoughts and needs or whether it showed up in small moments where they were breaking their own word by not doing or being what they say, betrayal is an energy they had been in relationship with for a long time. So maybe explore this within yourself and your patterning.
With this being said, it is NOT your fault this is happening. I want to be clear that this is just a learning experience and is not about blame on any level. It’s about understanding how relationships work. The basic principle is: How we treat ourselves is reflected in how others treat you. With this kind of understanding, it helps you use every single situation as a “mirror” of what you carry within you – and those moments give you very powerful moments of learning and healing the areas where you are not so well connected with your divine, precious, sacred heart. It’s a forever journey and many times, as you are experiencing, a painful journey.
What I would most suggest for you, is to work with a therapist on your own. You are obviously not in a place of wanting to let go right now and that’s okay. So keep doing counseling with him and then work on your own with a therapist who can help you process more deeply in private and not with him in the room. You are in so much pain and heartbreak right now, you need some help sifting through your entire world falling apart. So give yourself that kind of support, clear the clutter, the hurt, the confusion and THEN you make a more clear decision about what to do next when you are ready. Is this something you can do?
How does all of this make you feel?
Heidi
HAHAHAHA! You are so funny! I love it! Does she have a name?? Just ask her and she will tell you. I love that you are connecting with her and protecting her. It’s really beautiful how you talk about her!!
I love love love that you did the exercise!!! And it made me completely smile hearing about how excited your son was about coloring! How old is he?
It sounds like the time you and your guy spent together was really wonderful and nourishing. I love that you guys laughed a lot. That is always very bonding! Are there plans for next Friday tea again?
It IS such a simple exercise but like you are experiencing, incredibly powerful. Tell me more about how it feels for you while doing this? What’s it like? Is she easy to talk with? Do you find yourself wanting to “fix” how she feels or are you good about just holding space for her and loving her? I’m so proud of you that you are doing this! I can’t tell you how many people I have passed this exercise onto, that never do it. But you did and that is FABULOUS!!!
Heidi
