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Hi Johanna! I’m glad to hear that this new information is helpful for you and that you are learning and growing and most of all, interested in developing your confidence.
I’m curious…what do you think a confident person has that you don’t? Why do you think you have so much low self-esteem? What is stopping you from loving yourself? Let’s say you did develop more self-love and confidence…what do you imagine your life will be like?
He says he’ll never leave me so I have hope that everything will be alright with time and learning. I am going to burst your bubble here. These kinds of fantasies are really dangerous and can cause a lot of pain. It’s important always to embrace and work with what is true. What is true here, is no matter what anyone says, using the words “always” and “never” followed by a promise, is the most dangerous kind of promise to make, because while it may be true IN THE MOMENT, that’s all that promise is ever good for…IN THE MOMENT. So the “I will always love you” or “I will never leave you” kind of statements are simply statements he cannot guarantee…no one can. You seem to really find safety in his “I will never leave you” promise and that is NOT a statement to feel safe with. What IS true is that he means it for now. Life happens, he will change and so will you, so the ONLY guarantee your relationship has, is that you guys are going to evolve and change A LOT over the years…whether together or apart…that’s a DAILY choice. AND…I imagine you wouldn’t want him to stay with you just because he said he would. I know people that have chosen to stay with their partner because they made a commitment and not because they actually WANT to…so they end up cheating or sabotaging the relationship in other ways. That is not a good situation either, right? I know you want a vibrant, loving, nourishing connection with him. You BOTH will need to work to keep this relationship going. You can do all the work on yourself and build your confidence as much as you want, but if HE doesn’t do his own work and really release his “promise” to the other girl and release his guilt along with the other baggage he carries, your marriage will not be open, nourishing and vibrant. He needs to WANT to work on the relationship with you as well. Do you think he is willing? Is he the type to want to learn how to be better in his life? Do you think he would ever seek help to work more deeply within himself?
I believe the more I learn how to become irresistible, his feelings for her will vanish, maybe not completely, but at least I’ll be HIS love and he’s my hero and that’s what I want. You are still competing with this other woman in your mind. Learning how to become irresistible is not going to change him. He chose to marry you not from being madly in love, but instead trying to run from something else. Until HE faces his choice and really looks at his choice and releases his old promise, there will always be a wall between you guys, no matter how irresistible you are. Sometimes, 2 people have a “thing” that has no words. Sometimes, people connect in ways that are beyond anyone else they connect with and it sounds like they might have had that “thing” together. It doesn’t matter though, because love takes MANY forms and each version of love is powerful in its own way. So instead of trying to “become” irresistible to him (which immediately sets you up to compete against the other girl for his love), connect with the power and beauty and uniqueness of the love you offer to him. Let this other girl go and focus on the love that you and him are building together each day. No, it’s not the same as the other girl, but it’s not meant to. Yours and his love is a unique blend of you and him and now your son. That’s powerful too, right?
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hey there!
How’s it going? Are you enjoying your Manifest your Man program? How is your social life coming along? Meeting more people and doing some fun things?
Heidi
Hi Jessica!
I just saw your message and reached out to a staff person, so as soon as they get back to me, which is pretty quick usually, I will send you my Coach info.
I suggest deleting his text. I’m soooooo so proud of you that you didn’t even read it. Delete his contact info and I would also suggest blocking him. Addicts do tend to go in cycles where they will push away the people they care about the most and then eventually they circle back around, apologize, say ALL the right things and work their way back into their lives. Blocking him will keep you protected from falling back into his charms and the goodness he does have in him. You are vulnerable with him and maybe always will be. I am incredibly internally strong, but there really have been particular men in my life who somehow are able to break down my defenses and not in healthy ways. I know who these guys are and they are deleted and blocked. I’m not interested in playing with fire and expect that I can somehow handle it. Of course, I learned that the hard way though by getting hurt…a lot.
All I want is to talk to him and hear an apology. Closure. Which you probably got from your breakup but I know I have to stop wishing and just move on. It’s just easier said than done Healing from heartbreak is ALWAYS easier said than done…AND it can be done. I understand that you want closure from him and you want him to apologize. I have no doubt, that at some point, he really will connect into the pain he has caused you and so many other people in his life. It’s important for you to create closure for yourself. My father was a really messed up guy. Twenty years ago I cut him out of my life. He died last summer. I never got an apology, I never got to have a dad who deeply loved and cared about me, I never got to have a father who owned up to his abuse. AND…I healed anyways. I created closure for myself by forgiving him and releasing the hurt I carried. Closure is NOT reliant upon another person. Healing DOES NOT require an apology from the offender. This is YOUR pain. Yes, he ignited it in you BUT, he did NOT cause the network of pain you are carrying from your past. You are wanting HIM to apologize for you to help relieve the pressure of the pain that lives in you. That is not his job. It is your 100% responsibility to take ownership of the pain and work with it yourself. He was just the last offender in a loooooong line of people who hurt you. An apology from him will not fix any of that. But what DOES fix it, is owning it, working with it and choosing to forgive and release the pain all of these people caused…and you don’t have to talk to a single one of them!!! We can all heal on our own.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Shruti!
This is a great question and I’m glad you are asking this.
If he is ALREADY having some inconsistency in his behavior, that is DEFINITELY something you need to explore more and gain a deeper understanding about. He could be dating other people and when he is out with them, he is less available to shower you with attention, he could feel scared to really connect with you, he could have some stuff going on in his life that makes him feel not ready etc. There are a handful of reasons why his behavior could be like this. AND…to be honest, none of it matters because whatever the reasons are, it’s not going to change his behavior….maybe.
First, you have to be willing to walk away and NOT allow yourself to go through these ups and downs. For example, I have an old friend from 20 years ago that came back into my life a few months ago. At first, he was REALLY responsive to texting back, initiating phone calls and being connective…and then all of a sudden he wasn’t there anymore. My connection and friendship is valuable and I take care of that connection by having standards as to what I will participate in. Therefore, I send my friend a video and text letting him know that it didn’t feel good to send him several videos and texts and not have any responses from him in return. I understood that he is super crazy busy because of the season he is in at his work and that he just didn’t have the capacity to respond, however…that’s totally okay and I honor that AND it means I’m not interested in that kind of friendship. He immediately reached out, we scheduled a time to talk and we both expressed our thoughts and feelings about it and came to a resolution that worked for both of us.
I’m sharing this example because FIRST AND FOREMOST, you have to care and love yourself MORE than any connection you have with a man. It is quite common for women to negotiate away their standards and how they are treated in order to stay connected with the guy. This leads to MANY MANY problems down the road AND it also leads to you teaching him how to treat you. When you value yourself and treat yourself with respect, others will either fall in line with that or they will fall away from that. I was willing to end the friendship if he was not willing to shift some things and start to care more about the friendship I was offering. Does this make sense?
So, to start, I would suggest to have a mindset of curiosity and ask him some questions about this pattern he has of being really connective and then not. If he is dating other girls, he most likely will not tell you that, as he probably will be afraid. Regardless, what YOU need to decide is what you REQUIRE in order for you to stay connected. Are you wanting a committed relationship with him? Do you want him to be more attentive all the time or do you just want more consistency?
When you have this conversation with him, you can ask him “I’m noticing that sometimes you are crazy attentive and feel very available to connect and then other times it’s quite the opposite. I’m wondering what is happening? Are you afraid? Are you dating other girls? Are you just not sure about me? I really would like to learn about you and what’s going on.” Then, you can let him know what you need if he wants you to continue connecting with him. Make sure you are VERY clear and detailed about what you would like. Instead of saying, I’d like you to be more consistent, explain what that actually means. If you want more attention, well what kind of attention? Be clear about this so if he is interested in wanting to keep connecting with you, he knows EXACTLY what he needs to do.
How does this approach feel for you?
Heidi
Hi Linda,
Sounds like you are doing really well and feeling good about your situation. Good luck with everything! We are here for you whenever you run into some bumps in the future.
Heidi
Hi Linda,
I’m really happy to hear it was just him being busy.
Maybe a conversation you can have is “When you don’t respond like that, it causes me to wonder if something is wrong. We are still obviously getting to know each other and we will fumble along the way, of course. What would be really helpful is instead of just telling me we will talk later and then not following through, just tell me that you are really busy and will reach out when you get a chance. Even telling me that you are going radio silent for a handful of days, but that it has nothing to do with me and you just need to focus on other things, will be helpful. I am happy to support whatever you need, but it’s much easier for me to do that when I have an understanding of what you need, instead of guessing what is happening for you.”
Even though he was busy, he could have handled it much better and been more clear, instead of just putting you off and then breaking his word with you by saying he was going to reach out and then not following through. Those kinds of things add up and MOST OF ALL…those are moments that build trust or break trust. Doing what you say you are going to do is about integrity and building trust between 2 people.
Just something to think about.
Heidi
Hi Linda!
Welcome to the forum. I know it’s really tough when you feel the connection shift. It sounds like something happened for him. Long distance is INCREDIBLY tough!!! Especially when it comes to building a relationship from scratch.
Have you directly asked him what’s going on? Does it feel like he is more distant? Or short? It’s not uncommon for men to pull away and go into their “cave” to process something challenging. I’m wondering if something happened at his work. Or maybe he personally got a medical diagnosis that is scary. Any number of things could have happened for him to be less available and the only way you will know is if he tells you. Are you guys planning a trip to see each other again? How far apart do you guys live?
Heidi
Hi Tamara,
It sounds like you have really done your homework.
My question is, what is happening inside of YOU, that you have chosen to stay with a man who doesn’t care that you exist except to serve him? He is who he is, so basically, YOU are the one here who has chosen to be with him and ALLOW yourself soooooo many years of rejection and somehow called that “love.”
however I have seen him making changes to be more available to me and putting more effort into our relationship. Which is part of why I’m so confused. I’m sure this is your dream. To have a guy treat you so poorly for so many years and then all of a sudden start to become a little more available to you would feel like a fresh glass of water in the middle of the desert! I don’t know what is happening, but what I DO know is that your perspective is distorted. Staying with a guy like this for 15 years just tells me that you have a STRONG relationship with pain and rejection and feeling anonymous. He may be giving you a little more attention, but he is NOT changing. People like that DO NOT change. Not in any sustainable way, unless they do deep work on themselves and those type of people don’t do stuff like that because they don’t think anything is wrong. Whatever changes ARE happening, it does not undo the damage that has been done for YEARS. He may be happier, because he is cheating and entertaining himself with another woman. Maybe he came into some extra money. I don’t know. He is the only one that knows and being that he doesn’t communicate to you very well…it will remain a mystery. It DOES NOT mean you should stay. By staying with this guy, it means you are abandoning yourself. It is NOT love when you “love” someone else at the expense of yourself. That is called trauma bonding. Here is a video that may help you understand a little more: https://youtu.be/HRREbjsq3jY
Tamara, my heart goes out to you. You are so deeply wrapped up with him and have lost so much of yourself by being with him for so long with your heart being betrayed and neglected by yourself first and then by him. That’s awful. You are trying to find a “light” somewhere so that you can keep him in your life and continue knowing who you are through him. The thing is, the ONLY way to truly get yourself back, grow your self-esteem, start to love yourself more deeply and really be FREE to be the FULL expression of yourself, is to separate from him. No matter how many “methods” you try to heal, they will NEVER fully work their magic as long as you stay with him. I know you believe this last year he is “changing” but I will tell you, he is NOT changing in any sustainable way. He will NEVER be that person that is deeply intimate with you. He is NEVER be that guy who deeply respects and cares about your feelings and wants to understand you. He will NEVER be that guy who shares his deepest thoughts and feelings with you.
You have been in an emotional desert for 15 years with this guy. You have been roaming the desert and come across a city that CAN help you (your yoga, your healthy food, your RTT etc.), but then you head back out into the desert and continue to wander and you wonder why none of the techniques are working. They cannot work, NOTHING can work, as long as you keep choosing to step back out in the desert where you are abandoning all help. You are CHOOSING to be alone and wandering around, no direction, no change, no hydration and you are STARVING. That is why you even came here in the first place…looking for some food and water. While you are wandering around in the desert, your guy comes by with some water. The ONE thing you have ALWAYS wanted from him, he is finally giving some of it to you. You immediately drink the water feeling a level of relief and hope that things are FINALLY changing for you. But what you didn’t even notice is that water is full of dirt and grime. The water he handed you is not water at all. It’s wet and can help with your deep thirst, but the dirt and grime in that water makes that water toxic to you. You are sooooo thirsty though, that you are not even able to see it. No one in your position would be able to see it. I have seen him making changes to be more available to me and putting more effort into our relationship This is the water you are drinking. You are going to have a very distorted picture of the water you are drinking. You are going to be so disoriented, that you will have no idea what “healthy” is and what it means for a man to be truly “available” for you, because your perspective is skewed. He may be more available compared to his normal pattern of 15 years, but it doesn’t actually mean he is available. It just means he is more than before, which honestly does not say much or mean much at all.
I know I am being quite blunt and strong here. I suppose it’s my effort to try and plant some seeds of truth into your system. I know you are not ready to leave him and you are not ready to be on your own and discover who you are. As painful as it is, there is still comfort in playing small, not being seen and just serving a man. That is more important to you than anything else and that is a pattern that deep in intertwined in every cell of your being. I would suggest to find a therapist who is strong, will confront you and equip you with skills to be able to stand on your own 2 feet and help you find your value. Maybe someday, you will be in enough pain to make a different choice. Until then, you will keep “visiting your cities” that you come across in the desert so you can get sourced for a little bit before heading back out into the desert. I honor your choice. You get to do that.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Oh wow Jessica! I am soooooo so proud of you! You are doing such incredible work by saying those things to yourself in the mirror every day and I am proud of you that you stopped drinking and partying! Just something to think about….there is nothing wrong with drinking and partying at all, but it’s a SUPER dangerous mode when you pair it with pain. That is actually how a lot of addicts get their start. They pair pain with substances and are trying to “escape” the pain with those substances and then the neural networks in their brains get created and addictions are born. It’s a slippery slope, so I want to encourage you to stay sober. That was always an agreement I had with myself…as long as I was in anger, hurt, resentment, rebellion etc. I would NOT drink or party. I developed the strength, knowledge and skillset to face my pain head on and although I will run from my pain from time to time by ignoring it, I always end up facing it and healing…but always sober. Love yourself enough to make that kind of commitment.
I am happy to refer you to my Coach. She is the most badass person I know. My favorite thing about her is she will absolutely tell it straight to you AND then teach you skills of how to work with your emotions on your own. She will take you deep and help you identify what is TRULY happening and help you clean out the core wounding that lives in your subconscious. With her, I will work through traumas sooooo fast. So as long as you are willing, you can do some very powerful healing work and so much faster than you would with most other coaches or therapists. She works with people all over the U.S. through the phone or Facetime, so her methods work that way as well. If you are interested, let me know and I’ll send you a private email with her phone #.
I’m so sorry about your vacation and the loss of money. It’s not really about the money that is so upsetting, it’s about how disrespectful he is being by not paying you back. You were a team. And now, even though he has stepped away, he is still not being honorable. It’s not surprising as that is a typical behavior of an addict. I know it doesn’t make sense, but what you are seeing about him now, was always there, but you just couldn’t see it. I know I’ve said this before…”Love is blind.” You are going to have to let this one go. I know you are angry and resentful about it. Sometimes it’s good to have that anger so it keeps you in pain…to remind you about the parts of him that are really destructive and not okay for you. Is it possible to still go? Is there a friend that can still go on the trip with you? Maybe he would be willing to transfer the flights into your name. Have you tried calling Southwest or talking to an agent? It’s YOUR credit card that made the purchase, so maybe there is a way they would be able to help you somehow. Maybe THEY can transfer the tickets to your name or give you a voucher.
I feel like men to me all look the same now. Like liars. All of them. I know that is such an unhealthy way to look at the future but that is where I am. This is VERY normal. You are hurt, you are angry, you are resentful, you feel powerless, you feel fooled and all by a guy you built your fantasies and future life around. Of course, your walls are up. And that’s okay!!! Right now, you are in recovery. Just like if you broke a bone, it needs to get set back into place and needs some time to heal, with the right amount of rest and physical therapy, BEFORE you go for a run again. Give it time. You will absolutely recover from this. If you work with the right kind of “physical therapist” you will not only come back 100%, but you will be wiser, smarter and will absolutely make more healthy choices for your sacred, beautiful heart moving forward. So don’t even worry about whether you will date again. I promise you will. We ALL have been in that place more than once. The worst breakup I ever had was the most painful thing I had ever felt, a little over a decade ago. I was sooooo depressed, all I could do was lay on the floor and occasionally get up and go to the bathroom. I would show up to work and look like death! I had to work with him. I was his boss actually, so it was so painful to go to work. And funny enough, last year, he decided to move to Colorado and stayed at my place for a few months and it was great! So…healing is VERY possible, love can be transformed and you will find yourself again…an even stronger version of you! You can do this! Keep choosing to love yourself. Choose forgiveness. Choose to face your fears and anger. Journaling is a POWERFUL way to truly let ALL that crap that you are holding inside, out onto paper WITHOUT filtering a thing. Let it out! Dance your anger or sadness. There are PLENTY of songs to support ANY feeling you are having in the moment. The idea is to keep working WITH your emotions and moving them. Dancing, journaling, talking, throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old in your house, screaming angry profanity into a pillow, go somewhere private and pin up his face on a wall or tree and throw eggs at it while yelling at him, take a tennis racket and beat a pillow, then journal more. Give your feelings a place to go!!!
Thoughts? Do you want my coach’s info?
Heidi
Hi Jessica,
Stay with me here. I understand how painful this is. It’s like a ripping away of your soul. The emptiness and pain it leaves, is so hard to deal with every single day. Every single second, every breath, every thought is consumed by the pain. Even if you do laugh, it’s not a “free” kind of laugh because pain is in that laughter. I’m here to tell you that you can do this. I’m here to tell you that this will NOT last forever. I’m here to tell you that you ARE strong enough to handle this.
I guess what i can’t seem to understand is after 3 weeks and after my friends pouring into me with so much love and support this past weekend, why I’m still sad. You have an emotional addiction to him Jessica. You have tied sooooooo much of your happiness and value to him specifically that it doesn’t matter how much anyone else loves you. Emotional addictions are no different than substance addictions. Do you really think that a lifelong alcoholic wouldn’t miss alcohol and wouldn’t be in major depression after being in rehab for 3 weeks and filled up with all kind of love, information, encouragement and support?? You have to remember that this pattern of yours, where you seek out others to fill you up and tell you that you are valuable, has been a LIFELONG pattern. It has how you have moved through every single day of your life as an adult. Do you know how many days that is???? Let’s just say it’s been at least since 15 years old that you have been really navigating your friends, boyfriends etc. with this pattern. That is over 5,500 days!!!! And you expect that in just 21 days, all would be okay just because your friends are loving you up??? It just doesn’t work that way.
I’ll try to explain this…usually I have a whiteboard where I can draw this concept in my horrible stick figure art. LOL. Starting from birth, whenever trauma or challenge happens, it gets stored in our system on MANY levels…physical, spiritual and emotional. Imagine those thoughts, feelings, beliefs about those challenges get stored into a bubble, so to speak. So let’s just call this bubble you are dealing with, the rejection bubble. Every single experience you have had that FELT like rejection to you, gets stored into that bubble and that bubble has the ability to infinitely grow in size. As an adult, when we are finally old enough to TRULY process our traumas, what lives in those bubbles are the focus for healing. If we never end up diving into those bubbles, they end up running our lives because they only grow and grow and never shrink unless we face what we are holding onto. So…this rejection bubble you have (we all have one btw) is pretty big. It feels like this guy rejecting you is so incredibly painful partly because he has now activated ALL the pain…a LIFETIME of pain…by rejecting you. So your friends pouring all this love into you WILL NOT change the lifetime of pain you are still carrying and that also influenced you to invest in a guy who was never truly available for you. You got sooooo wrapped up in being chosen by a guy that you believed was out of your league, that you ignored all the red flags that would have told you that this experience was temporary. And that’s OKAY!!!! Lord knows, I’ve done that soooo many times and I don’t know a woman alive who hasn’t gone through some variation of this. It’s all part of us growing up and learning. Unfortunately, the hardest lessons to learn are the most painful ones. The gift here is…the pain. Hopefully, the pain of this is strong enough for you to never want to make this kind of choice again. Hopefully, the pain will teach you to be more discerning and careful with your beautiful heart. Hopefully, this pain will most of all…inspire you to FINALLY start to work with what lives in your rejection bubble. That’s the only way to truly heal…if you don’t do the work, all that will happen is the pain will eventually dissipate as it merges with the other pain you carry in your bubble.
What you need to do right now, is receive the love your friends are giving you AND give yourself love. My guess is, you are allowing your fantasy of getting back together, to loop over and over in your mind. And the fact that it’s not going to happen, it just causes continued pain. In your fantasy, you get to feel all the BEST stuff and you are not adding in the demeaning, meanness, rejection and yukiness that he also was. This is where you DO have control. The happy fantasy you are allowing to run like a movie in your system is NOT real. It’s not the FULL picture. So every time you start to visit fantasy land, you stop yourself and remind yourself of how he treated you poorly. Remind yourself he is an addict and can NEVER be what you want him to be. Remind yourself he is mean and critical. Remind yourself he is an incredibly unhappy person. This is the FULL picture. Stop allowing your mind to loop ONLY on the best parts of your connection. He was amazing AND he was destructive. It’s his destructive side that is not okay and will suck every bit of self-esteem you do have, out of you.
CHOOSE YOURSELF!!! Whenever I get rejected, I continually say to myself, even though he didn’t choose me, I CHOOSE ME. I am lovable, even in my messiness. I am lovable even though he doesn’t think so. I choose me, even though he didn’t choose me. This is self love! It doesn’t matter if you belief it or not…say it to yourself over and over and over again. Look around you! Your friends will 100% agree with you. Let your friends’ love into your heart and allow THEIR perspective to be MORE powerful than this guy’s choice. THEY CHOOSE YOU TOO!!!! Turn your attention to them, turn your attention onto yourself and start to break this damn pattern of you putting your value in the hands of a man.
Let’s just say you did get back together. You would end up getting your “fix” when he is connective and wonderful AND you would be destroyed every single time he rejects you because he doesn’t want to deal with your needs or he doesn’t want to deal with how he is letting you down or he doesn’t want to deal with any of your sadness or hurt. Because that is the reality of being with an addict. You never know what is going to happen. You never know what kind of day you will have with them. You will get used to be let down, criticized and hurt. You will get used to feeling VERY lonely, even when you are sitting next to him. That is the truth of any relationship where there is an addict who is not getting help. So…is that the kind of relationship you really want? You think you are in pain now??? Imagine the years of pain you would fill your rejection bubble with. Imagine the amount of tears you will shed because of him. THAT IS GUARANTEED.
You can hurt now from the loss of him and work through it and KNOW there is an ending to the pain. OR…you can continue torturing yourself with the false happy fantasy of him, maybe even get him back and then never heal. There is NO end to that pain. You are the one who has control here. You get to choose how long you want to hurt. You get to choose what you want to hurt about.
Maybe this video will help: https://youtu.be/k0GQSJrpVhM
Heidi
Hi Tami!
I’m so so sorry for what you are going through. It sounds incredibly difficult and you are obviously quite confused. I’m happy to help you find some clarity and explain some things, as I am very familiar with people who have narcissistic qualities.
I just have a few questions. You say he is a narcissist, but there is a difference between actually having narcissistic personality disorder and having narcissistic tendencies that can range from mild to intense. I’m guessing from how you are talking, you have labeled him a narcissist because of your experiences with him and he happens to fit into that “box” of a narcissist from the reading you have been doing about it. Is this correct?
How long have you been together? What does he do that makes you call him a narcissist?
There’s much more to the story. In this last year he’s been emotionally and micro cheating and I have no idea how to talk about these things to get to a resolution. I’m sure there is a ton more to the story. This is just a guess….I imagine you are confused about how to move forward with him and create a “resolution” because the truth is…there is NO resolution with a narcissist. If he is what you say he is, there is not fixing something like that. There is no such thing as a healthy and happy relationship with a narcissist. Why? Because people with those coping mechanisms are insanely fragile and have ZERO ability to be relational in any balanced, healthy way.
Let’s break this down a bit. Narcissim: meeting the needs of the self at the expense of another. Co-dependence: Meeting the needs of others at the expense of yourself. So…basically, wherever you find a narcissistic, you will also find they are surrounded by co-dependents. The ONLY way for a relationship to work with a narcissist is if they are with a co-dependent type of person. As long as the co-dependent agrees to stay in their own pattern of dysfunction, all will work in the relationship. Will it be happy and healthy?? No, of course not. But it can work. The narcissist NEEDS to be served and the co-dependent NEEDS to serve. So it works.
So again, you are confused because you are trying to find a way to have a healthy, happy relationship with a guy who is not capable of offering that to you. Your choice here is simple: You stay and continue to submit to his needs and wants. Since he is not capable of a productive conversation, then there really is no place for you to express your needs, wants, boundaries etc. because he won’t care. So if you want to stay with him and keep the peace, that means treating yourself the way he treats you…ignore your needs, stay silent and don’t acknowledge that something is wrong and you just let him do and be what he wants. That is how you are going to stay with him. If that is not what you want to do, then you leave. It really is that simple. 2 choices…accept who he is and stay…or love yourself enough to leave.
He is NOT going to change. He is who he is and if you know anything true about narcissists, there is NO relationship with them – there is only “managing” the connection. My father was a narcissistic personality disorder which means it’s at the extreme level. I learned about all of this in my early 20s and really had to accept that if I wanted to stay connected to him, I had to control our interactions and my expectations. And it worked beautifully for a while. I made sure we only talked about certain topics. I made sure I always pumped him up and made him feel like the hero whenever he offered “advice.” Our typical socializing included a dinner before a movie, so it was perfect because it was 45 minutes of chit chat and then a movie where we didn’t have to talk. Even with all the “managing” I did, it would occasionally break down maybe once or twice a year and I was quickly reminded of the person he really was. Eventually, I had to let him go and decide that even the “managing” became toxic for me – so we parted ways. You are trying to have a romantic, deep, vulnerable connection with a man who is incapable of that, so there really is no “managing” this kind of situation, because your needs are much greater.
I’m doing RTT, exercise, supplements, acupuncture, yoga, eat healthy, read and listen to things on interpersonal effectiveness, emotion regulation, narcissism and more. I do all these things and still don’t know how to go forward. All of these things do not change the fact that you have connected with a man who doesn’t value you, appreciate you, honor you, respect you or deeply care for you. You are trying to change and manage yourself so you can keep this relationship and it will never work. The truth is, you are miserable.
Here is an analogy I like to use…Imagine you are baking a cake and I give you all the BEST ingredients possible and I tell you, you have to make this cake with 1 cup of shit. So you go to make the cake with the BEST ingredients, the best recipe, yet you still have to add 1 cup of shit to the cake. You can absolutely make it look beautiful on the outside, but you know it will never taste good. That’s what you are doing here…you have the BEST ingredients: your acupuncture, RTT, reading, learning, yoga etc…but all the while, you also have “shit” in your relationship and that is his narcissism – no matter what you do, you cannot change that his narcissism is toxic. But instead of embracing what is…you are still in the kitchen, trying to learn how to turn this cake into something yummy and wonderful. You “don’t know how to move forward” because you have tried EVERYTHING you can possibly think of and it’s still not working. What you are not willing to do, is put down your utensils and the ingredients and walk away accepting that it’s impossible to make that cake the way you want it. NO ONE can make that cake delicious and amazing. IT’S IMPOSSIBLE! So instead of accepting what is, you keep yourself in confusion, in the kitchen, trying to gather more and more information about how to turn that cake into something that it just can’t be. That’s exhausting!!!
Does this make sense? Thoughts on all of this?
Heidi
Hi Veronica,
Welcome! We would love to help you as much as we possibly can. I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. I know how scary it must be to think he might be cheating again.
I know you don’t want to lose your marriage, but I also know you don’t want to be in a marriage where you don’t feel absolutely loved, emotionally safe, valued and treasured. Whatever is happening in your marriage, it may or may not be fixable. It all depends on how honest, open and willing to fight for the marriage you BOTH are. You may be willing to fight for him, but he may not feel the same way and that may be something you have to face. It doesn’t mean you aren’t worth fighting for, it just means he is not the kind of guy willing to face any “shit” that has built up, mostly within himself.
What happened when he cheated on you before? How did you guys come to a resolution? What is happening now? Is the same pattern happening as before and that’s why you think he is cheating? Have you talked to him about it directly and asked him?
Heidi
Hi Jessica,
Thank you for being so vulnerable and honest and sharing more details. That takes great strength!
I do blame myself because I genuinely didn’t think he was a true addict. I get that you didn’t know at first, but then you did know and tried to keep getting him back. to The point where I’ve let him disrespect on two different occasions and got rejected by him after he messed up When someone treats you this way, it’s time to walk away. You get to be loved, cared for and respected Jessica. he’s so handsome, and way out of my league he will surely lose interest overtime I understand the low self-esteem that you live with. It’s that part of you that chose this guy. It’s that part of you that is deeply hurting and in depression. There is so much pain and hurt that you are carrying inside of your beautiful heart and it’s so thick and sticky that it prevents you from seeing your TRUE value. I understand that place. It’s all consuming. It’s heavy and it’s incredibly hard to carry. I’m glad you have started working with a therapist. I hope you find it to be helpful.
But the truth is he doesn’t know when to quit and I knew this but I genuinely loved him being in my life. I get it. You wouldn’t have fallen for him if he didn’t have some wonderful qualities and make you feel good as well. To get a guy’s attention and affection that you believed was out of your league is incredibly powerful. Any woman in your situation would have made the same choice. Be kind to yourself. That little girl part of yourself so deeply needs to be loved. She is in a lot of pain and needs YOUR love. She needs to feel YOU connected to her and comforting her. If you had a little girl come home from school crying, telling you that some girls were mean to her. What would you do as her mother? All she needs is for YOU, her mother to love her and connect her to the truth of her beauty. She needs a hug. She needs softness and kindness. Instead, as her mother, you are BLAMING her for being rejected. You are telling her that she did something wrong for her to get rejected. You have internalized those awful words when you were bullied. You have internalized those actions and those other kids’ beliefs about you and made them the truth about who you are. You gave THEM all the power to say whether or not you are loveable and valuable and are still giving them ALL the power. You are giving this guy the power to decide whether you are worth fighting for or not. That is why you are depressed. You put your value in the hands of others and let THEM decide who you are. It’s time for you to take back your power and decide that you are loveable and valuable whether other people think you are or not. This, of course, is much easier said than done. I have been rejected sooooo many times in my life and every single time, it’s given me an opportunity to love myself, connect to myself and remind myself that my value is not tied to any other person.
I knew his mom and daughter’s mother didn’t approve of him partying like he did so I helped him get back on track and he was doing great until the night he met my dad. Again, an addict will ALWAYS sabotage connection. You were doomed for failure from day one. There is not a single lady alive who would ever be able to last with him and be happy.
I don’t love myself at all and at 31 years old I’m not sure what or where I went wrong. Of course you love yourself. You have an inner strength and desire to learn and grow. You are fighting for yourself by working with a therapist and coming here to learn more. A person would not do that if they didn’t know there was something IN THEM worth fighting for. Like all of us, there are areas of strength and love and high self-esteem and there are areas that feel like a black pit of yuckiness. The only difference between any of us is the size and depth of that black pit compared to their high self esteem. But high self-esteem is earned and worked for, especially when there is a lot of trauma. I’ve had a TON of trauma, so I had to work extremely hard cleaning out that pit of yuckiness. It’s possible though. Not easy, but very possible. Do you have good support in your life to help support you right now? Ask your friends in New York to tell you about your amazingness. THEY have a very different vision of you than this guy and their vision of you is going to have love and connection in it. Ask them for help and support!
Thoughts?
Heidi
Oh Jessica,
I am so sorry for the heartbreak you are having to go through. It truly is awful when all your dreams that you built around someone, are shattering and there is nothing you can do about it. It’s a very powerless feeling.
Not sure if this is the right forum but I’m in desperate need of a slap in the face to help me understand what has happened and what I did wrong. I’m here to tell you that you did NOTHING wrong except you chose to invest in an addict and a guy who doesn’t have the emotional health, capacity or ability to be a good partner for ANYONE. He is clearly very confused and although a part of him really wanted to invest and make things work for you, the other part of him – that addict part of him – is much stronger and will ALWAYS sabotage connection. So the REAL story is, he will ruin ANY relationship because he is carrying a lot of hurt in his heart and doesn’t fundamentally trust anyone. Addicts are typically extremely angry and resentful and those are MASSIVE barriers to connection and love. So even though in the beginning he was available and connective and I’m sure he gave it his best shot…he is NOT set up to sustain that. The pain and anger and resentment will ALWAYS take over and sabotage any happiness that comes into his life.
I also want to circle back around to you. I’m wondering what your childhood was like. Was it rough for you? A lot of rejection, abuse or abandonment? Typically, anyone attracted to an addict, carries a lot of pain themselves.
What are you doing to help yourself right now? Do you have some good friends to talk with? Do you have a therapist who can help you through this heartbreak? What are you doing to take care of yourself right now? I want to encourage you to be much more kind to yourself. You are blaming yourself for HIS issues which is like beating yourself over the head over and over and over again about something you have no control over. Be kind to yourself. You need compassion, gentleness and care, right?
Come here and use this forum like a journal. I’m here to listen and help guide you through all the messiness and chaos and heartbreak you feel right now. I’ve been there and done that many times and I’m here to tell you there IS a way through. There IS a way to replace the pain with happiness. There IS a way to heal.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Linda,
Welcome! You are asking some great questions. It sounds like you have some strong feelings for him. I just have a few questions.
What does it mean that you have been together for brief intervals? Were you in a committed relationship and then broke up? You just had sex and admitted feelings towards each other, but it never really went beyond that?
I’m wondering…if you guys were “together” for short periods of time over the years, what is stopping you guys from STAYING together?
You recently talked about feelings you both have for each other, which is nice, but was there any talk about what to do about those feelings? If you guys have been “together” before, I imagine those same feelings were discussed in the past, so I’m a little confused as to the design of your relationship. Was this the first time you guys discussed those feelings?
Let’s talk about your questions:
1. How do you keep him interested? Instead of asking that question as if it’s your job to keep him interested, you want to look at it from a different perspective. How do I stay an interesting person? The thing you want to think about…would you date you? would you want to be in a relationship with you? I KNOW I am an incredibly interesting person and I KNOW that I keep a man’s attention because I am the kind of interesting that he wants to take a journey with. I don’t “do” anything to keep his attention. I am just myself. And me…as my natural, normal self is going to be something they will either find intriguing, interesting and engaging…or they won’t. Whether the stay interested or not is THEIR journey and not my concern. If a guy isn’t inspired by who I am naturally, organically and authentically, then he is not the right match for me. Think about how much energy you would be spending trying to figure out what HE likes or is excited about and trying to “do” those things to keep his attention. That’s basically you trying to be something FOR HIM and losing yourself in the process…as if HE is the one who determines if you are interesting enough to stay engaged with or not. YOU have to decide that who you are, is worth being in relationship with, whether or not he thinks so. THAT is what is attractive to a man who is going to go the distance with you. A man who will stay interested in you, will like you just as you are. You don’t have to “do” anything to keep his attention except just be yourself. And if that isn’t enough to hold a guy’s attention, then they are not a good fit for you anyways. So let the cards fall where they may and just be yourself. Does this make sense? Thoughts?
2. How often should you call or text? I can’t answer this for you, as I don’t know what you guys have agreed to. I would say let him take the lead. Women tend to connect pretty strongly…moreso than men, so by letting HIM take the lead on that, he will feel respected, not pressured, he will feel like he has some space and most of all, you will get to see how much effort he actually puts into the connection without you leading it. It’s soooooo important to know that a guy really wants to connect with you…all on his own. Meaning, HE initiates, HE sets up ways to connect, HE puts the effort in – without YOU leading him in that direction. Also, I personally am quite blunt. If I have a question and need clarity, I always just ask. Can you just ask him what he feels comfortable with? Distance is tough. I know plenty of people who really struggle connecting over technology, so it’s a good conversation to have with him regardless.
3. How can you move forward? Again, I have no clue what you guys talked about. That’s a conversation you need to have with him. What does he want? It’s pretty clear what you want, but how does HE want to move forward?
Heidi
