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Hi! Great information!!!
I’m not sure if you have spoken with him yet before he leaves.
My first thought is something I imagine you are already aware of. His response about his ex completely shows he has NOT forgiven her and still has a lot of work to do around it. He is trying to “forget” instead of forgive and heal. No matter how long he is with you…even 20 years….this will always affect your relationship until he faces it. What will happen is that a belief system gets created from trauma or disruptions (i.e. women can’t be trusted). Then when you guys have an argument or maybe you start talking to a new friend who happens to be a guy or you do something that feels like it’s manipulative in his mind….he will have a BIG reaction because there is already a pre-existing belief system. So that is how people’s baggage ends up playing out in relationships. You know the REALLY big buttons when people respond so quickly and intensely by such little triggers.
Yes…times does heal. Nothing will replace the loss of your child and there will always be a connection with that soul that never made it here. With that being said, there are also ways / methods / types of healing techniques that can take you very deep into healing those sorts of things.
What you are needing to know in order to move forward is just not possible. There is no way to predict how anything will turn out. Again, the very best you can do is to be as aware as possible and choose a partner who has the qualities needed to handle stressors in life in a healthy way. That is probably the very best guarantee you can find in order for a relationship to last. So far…to be honest, he is not showing up so well. Once is not a pattern, 2x is a week pattern, 3x is strong pattern. My red flags are that he has sabotaged 2x already and that his method of choice to handle hurt and pain is to bury it instead of face it. This is his natural inclination, instead of facing the fear and hurt. It doesn’t sound like he has much of a skill set to do otherwise and that is the danger. You can teach him all the skills in the world, but to be honest, from all the years of experience I have had, if a person doesn’t NATURALLY take that path and are NATURALLY driven to grow and heal, then I can teach them as much as I want, I can role model, I can show them…but it just doesn’t end up sticking. Meaning, they don’t really fight for themselves all on their own…they need someone else to do it for them or they will just revert back to old coping styles.
So do you move forward? If you do, then you know what you are getting into. He is a high risk. And my guess is, you are not quite ready to let him go yet…and if that is the truth…then that’s totally okay! Love is a risk regardless, so the most important thing to grasp onto is that you are will be okay no matter what happens!!! Trust YOURSELF that if you can survive a divorce, an alcoholic husband, the loss of your child and land back on your feet….you can handle anything! You are resilient, you are courageous, you are intelligent, you are resourceful!!! So you get to take this journey with this younger guy, who is a high risk kind of experience, but also know that you will handle whatever shows up.
Does this help???
heidi
Hi Bell,
I understand why you are confused! Who knows if that text was a mistake. If it was, that’s okay. He got a good dose of your energy. I love how light and positive you are being about his choices. Well done!
If it was not a mistake, I imagine what most likely is happening is that he really missed you. Maybe he saw something that made him think of you and it took him down memory lane and he reached out. Then pulling away could be that he got really scared again. I’m curious….why did he pull away in the first place?
Next time, if he does text you, try being less connective. Maybe how you responded felt too eager for what he is ready for and it scared him off. next time you could say something like, “It’s wonderful to hear from you! Doing the prom thing right now and having a blast with…… So at the moment, I’m sad and happy to see my baby all grown up. Still praying for you every day. You doin okay?”
Is he dating anyone else? Is there a way to find out?
Heidi
Hey….wow! what a conversation. I want to just say that I am deeply, deeply so sorry for the loss of your child. What an incredibly, shocking, horrible thing to have to endure. There are no words for something like that. That says a lot about you to be able to stand back up and give love another chance again. I have a lot of respect for you.
So how does all of this make you feel? Maybe he is making up some of the story. He is not wanting to lose you. He is fighting for you like crazy right now which I imagine makes you feel a little better.
So my question to you is….what do you need in order to make a decision in either direction? If you want to stay, what information do you need from him in order to be okay with that? If you go, what information do you need in order to make that decision?
Lastly, coming to this choice is going to trigger your past relationship….not feeling safe….what beliefs are being triggered? Love is not safe? Men are not safe? I can’t trust a man? I want to invite you to work with whatever beliefs are showing up about love and men and clear them. Your guy deserves a clean slate….meaning you are not making a decision based on beliefs from past experiences that don’t even involve him. When you work with those negative belief systems, forgive what needs to be forgiven, then you will be much more clear about how to move forward.
Heidi
Hi Aysegul!
I too want to commend you on how you handled everything. You are quite the woman to have talked to him about it vs. yelling and screaming and calling him names and throwing him out. Take a moment and at least pat yourself on the back for handling an EXTREMELY difficult conversation with such grace. That is a VERY rare thing. Well done!
I understand the uneasiness you are still having. It’s not all tying together seamlessly. Something doesn’t feel quite right. The thing is, at this point, there is no way to prove anything. The only evidence you have are the phone calls and that may be all the evidence you ever get. I have no idea what spiritual beliefs you have, but when I need the truth, I ask for it. I say “Goodness (or god or universe or whatever you call it) Let me see this situation through your eyes of truth.” And 100% of the time, new information shows up for me at some point. Keep calling the truth towards you and it will show up, sometimes in very surprising ways. Trust you will get all the information you need.
In the meantime, it’s important you keep working through your own shock and hurt. He behaved in a way that was inappropriate with another woman. There is an aspect that does make sense in that he gets a taste of someone who understands him in a way that you cannot….and that is his culture. It hurts that she could offer him something that you are not able to. She was able to pull something out of him (several conversations, talking about his ex) that you have been wanting. You still are the one initiating all of contact / conversations and here he was making several phone calls to another woman. This can take the wind out of your sail of course. This is the place where you need to work within yourself and begin healing and forgiving, especially yourself, for not being able to get your needs met by him. You have put a TON of effort into trying to make this work. You have been patient, you have reached out for advice, you have read books and he still decided to connect with another woman. So the work for you is about realizing that you A does not equal B. You could have been the most perfect, amazing, brilliant woman for him on the face of this earth, but it doesn’t change he is human and has limitations and he is going to hurt you. You are going to hurt him sometimes as well. His choices have NOTHING to do with you. YOU ARE ENOUGH!! He just has his limitations and you are learning about where those are, as he is learning about where yours are.
He is still sooooo afraid of being hurt. Fear is the source of those walls you keep trying to patiently break down. The thing is, you are getting closer than anyone ever has since his ex and that is terrifying to him….more than he even realizes. So when people get really scared, they subconsciously begin to make decision to sabotage the relationship. They might start to argue more, they might start to lose feelings towards their person, they may start to become a workaholic, addictions can start to show up again…and the funny things is, many times people are not aware of themselves to recognize it….it’s just their subconscious taking the driver’s seat. A few weeks ago, I had found out someone I know has dementia and is on his way out. I didn’t feel much about it except for some sadness for him and a little bit of tears. The week after, all of a sudden, I started craving chocolate and sugar. I’d allow myself a piece here and there, but gradually throughout the week, it became more and more and intense. By the time the weekend hit, it was so strong that I had a day of gluttony! haha! I felt nothing emotionally but I knew enough about myself to recognize the energy behind the cravings. I checked in with my coach the next day and BAM! The person dying really triggered me and I needed to clear it. So being as young as he is, being as afraid as he is, I doubt he is TRULY and DEEPLY connected to what his choices are and why. In some ways, this is a risky kind of person to get involved with. If they don’t know and don’t have the desire to answer the “why” question behind their choices and behavior in life….the relationship will always be limited.
I think the questions I would want to know more about is the deeper stuff behind what drove him to connect. I would want to know:
1. I know a part of you knew that your choice to connect with her in the way you were, would hurt me and was not in your integrity. I am wondering what you were getting from this situation that would make you do it anyways.
2. I understand you are scared you are going to get hurt again. Reality is, I will hurt you, you will hurt me. Love is a risk and there is no way around it. What about your ex have you not forgiven yet? What aspects are you still trying to let go of?
(by the way…you should look up “The Invitation” by Oriah Mountain Dreamer).
3. You broke your integrity. I’m really curious about why.Those type of questions are more about what he was thinking and feeling that would inspire him to cross the line. It’s a deeper answer in him and has NOTHING to do with you…except that he is scared of you and scared of loving you….but there is nothing you can do about that…that is his own journey. Reality is, if he answers a lot of “I don’t knows” then you are with someone with poor awareness of himself. He may do everything he can to fix it, but that’s just fixing it. It doesn’t fix what caused it in the first place. So when anyone breaks their integrity with me, I watch them and what they actually DO about it. I have cheated before and it scared the living daylights out of me that I could do something like that. I never, in a million years, would have thought I was capable. So I sat with myself and broke down every detail and dissected every aspect to understand what drove me to do something like that. Then I met with my coach and we processed the crap out of it. Am I still capable? ABSOLUTELY!!! I know that now. What I also know are the warning signs that I am heading in a not so good direction and because of that, I can immediately take ACTION before I go down that road. And that is what I am looking for in someone else. I am looking for someone to care enough about THEMSELVES that they pay attention, they take ACTION to make sure they stay emotionally balanced, stable and accountable and that when they do mess up, they really work on fixing it form the inside of themselves and not the outside.
I’m totally over talking right now…lol! I will leave it at that. Hopefully this will help you understand a little more about what you need from him, the truth about what he is doing and how you can work with the hurt you are feeling right now.
Sending you a lot of healing vibes!!!
Heidi
Hi Mavis,
I would not have recommended sending something like that to him. It most likely will activate his walls as you are pointing out to him that he is not being enough for you therefore you are going to walk away. This is not what I imagined you felt. It’s also important that when you have something more serious to say, you want to say it face to face. That makes it all more personal and it becomes a discussion vs. assumptions.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Of course you are shaking! It’s devastating and shocking and there is adrenaline coursing through your body!!! I am so sorry! Look up “butterfly hug” on youtube. It’s a very good technique to help calm you down. Do it over and over and over again….non stop. Your system is on overdrive and you need to calm it down as much as possilble right now.
You can start the conversation by saying, “I am about to say something so completely difficult for me and all I wish from you is that you honor me with your truth and authenticity. I have some very strong evidence leading me to believe that you are involved with another woman. I wanted to hear it straight from you. What is going on?” He may ask “what evidence” and all you need to do at first is to say, “It doesn’t matter right now. I just want to know the truth.” He may say things to avoid the question or push you for the evidence, so all you need to keep doing is repeating that same statement and don’t get distracted. A lot of times, people on the defensive or people trying to backtrack, they respond by trying to find out more information while they are making up the lie in their head to tell. So give NO information and just stay focused on the purpose of the conversation. I hope he will just be honest with you right from the get go and that it’s a conversation that is honest and open.
How does that approach feel for you?
HeidiHi Darlene!
Good job! You are taking it one step at a time!!! You have found someone interesting enough to have some experiences with, which is good!
The only thing I would suggest is to not “lay it all out there” yet. Keep your story close to your heart for now. Let this guy experience you just as you are and see what happens. No need to define anything right now. Just going moment to moment is good. If you go deep into the story, it could really raise some red flags for the guy. It’s important to just keep things very light, take things slow and then over time as you both gather more info. about each other, you can start to exchange deeper information. So again, for now, no need to define anything or how you guys will be together for a “season.” Just take one day at a time, keep it light and fun and that’s all you need to do for now!
Keep us in the loop!!!! You are doing a good job!!!
Oh no! You don’t know that yet. It may be a family member, it maybe a friend he is trying to help….YOU NEVER KNOW UNTIL YOU TALK TO HIM ABOUT IT! Make sure you go into the conversation with open ears and create a space for him to be open and honest with you. If you go in with blazing fires, he most likely will get defensive and not open up as much. Man….I am hoping for the best right now. You guys have had such a wonderful connection. I am choosing soooo much goodness into your conversation!!!! Waiting for an update.
Heidi
Hi! I LOVE everything you wrote! It just made my heart smile sooooo big to know that you guys had some wonderful deep converstions!! Those are so amazing and bonding!!! That’s the path to becoming best friends right???
You and your guy remind me so much of my last boyfriend of whom I have referred to in these posts. Him and I would sit and have these very deep, philosophical, where did the time go kind of conversations all the time! We connected on a very deep level and I will forever be grateful for him!!! He too was super social and had close to 2,000 friends and I had 50. Haha! Totally 2 different approaches!! However, over time, like your guy, he naturally stopped going to the club, he got higher level certifications for his job, he enrolled in college, he essentially became the very best version of himself….and not becaue I “made” him, but just because he hung around me and matched my vibration. Of course, as soon as we broke up, within months he shifted back to his old self for awhile, but he got the taste of higher self and kept working back to that over time. So him just being around you is already shifting him. Everything you have mentioned has gone in the direction of him connecting better to himself and becoming more of his higher self!!! He is growing and evolving and that is so wonderful to hear!!! Keep focus on what IS working, because you have seen some amazing changes and learning a lot of wonderful things about him!
I’m excited for your journey with him!!!
Heidi
Thank you for sharing more details! It’s definitely helpful! So you guys have quite the history together then, but his home life was always in the way….and now it’s not….which I imagine is really scary for him (whether he is conscious of it or not).
I understand you want it to be how things used to be. What’s important is to really look at how things are in the present. Instead of trying to re-create what used to be, you need to focus on creating what is available for you now. So now, he is non committal, bogged down with a TON of stuff to do and I imagine is more trying to survive his life vs. thriving. If that is true, for men, new relationships can be very draining. If this is how he feels, the BEST thing you can do for support is to give him space and let him come out of his cave when he is ready. He will most likely go in and out of that cave for awhile, so as the woman supporting him, it’s rewarding him when he does come out and then detaching when he goes back in….and don’t take it personally! That’s the hardest part!!! I’m of course guessing this is what is happening. You will know much better if this is a pattern of his.
I’m not saying “no contact”. I’m saying NOT to initiate conversation or meet up times. Let him do that stuff. But sending him ideas (like the book) is a great way to stay connected! The idea is, you don’t want to ask for anything from him. If he is already depleted and a ton of his energy is going out….you want to support him by ADDING to his energy. So just for now, not asking for anything but offering book idea, articles, study methods etc. can be helpful.
What do you think?
Heidi
Hi Mavekoo!
Wow…I am soooo sorry you are going through this! I just have a few questions
HOw good of freinds were you? MOre acquaintances or close / hang out sometimes?
HOw long was he married?
Was it an amicable divorce or was it messy?
I do want to caution you. You say you love him so much, but you really are only just now getting to know him. I know you have known him for 7 years, but being in relationship with someone is a completely different scenario. It takes a lot of time to really see someone in all the different shades of life. So even though you have been friends for 7 years, he was married during that time so you are really only going to see certain sides to him. I am wondering if these intense feelings you have for him are what is causing him to keep some walls up. Even if you are hiding those feelings, guys can sense things like that. He just may not be ready for something serious. A lot of it depends on what his marriage was like and what the divorce was like. It sounds like he may like you, but also that he wants to take things really slow and not be serious.
The first thing I suggest is to slow waaaayy down. I know how hard that can be when you feel like you love someone. It’s important to get onto the same page with him. Back off quite a bit and allow him to chase you. Allow him to make contact and set up times to meet up. If you keep initiating, he will feel you making all the effort therefore he doesn’t really need to do anything. He is also giving you answers that are non committal. He is not saying yes, he is not saying no. That tells me he probably likes you, but also not wanting to take this to a serious level. Not yet at least. SO the first thing I would suggest is to back off and stop initiating contact. Let him come to you. Let’s see what happens. Is that something you feel you can do?
Heidi
Hi Latisha!
It sounds like you are doing a little better. You have finally made a decision to move on, focus on yourself and your ordination and getting yourself back. Well done! Sooooo difficult!!!
I am inclined to agree with Kanya. This book and whether or not to send it, is keeping you connected to him. Not in the sense that it’s making you want him back, but it is an energetic cord to him that still exists on your end. It is something you are thinking about, can’t decide what to do, finding out if he is seeing someone or not because of it….reality is….it is something that keeps you thinking about him. You are saying it doesn’t really matter, but your actions are showing otherwise. You are spending time here talking about it as well. This is something to watch in yourself!!! It’s fascinating really! I have done this many times in my life. There may be a guy that I don’t really have feelings for or maybe that I am wanting to separate from and I feel 100% solid in that choice or feeling…BUT….my actions are doing something different. And when I am doing those actions of thinking about them, reaching out to them etc. I am not actually “feeling” a need to get back together. What is so fascinating about that is that I am watching my subconscious behave 1 way (the actions) and my conscious doing another (solid in my choices / feelings). Notice that in yourself as you are going through this process. If you were 100% sold on breaking up, letting him go on all levels, you would not be in contact with him, you would not be thinking about whether to mail this book and you would create your life without him in it. So there is still a part of you reaching out to him even though another big part of you is moving on. It’s normal but also something to just be aware of. Why this is important to pay attention to is you will recognize this in others as well and will help you understand your ex even more. He is split….1 side wants you another side is sabotaging. You are split as well. One side is moving on, another side is still staying connected to him (the book, the connecting, thinking about how to be around him etc. – even if it’s only once in awhile, it just lets you know you still have some healing to do and some integration to do so you are no longer split).
I have to say that the very best way I have been able to see things in another guy that are not so obvious, was by observing myself. We humans are fundamentally all the same in how we react to life, so the more you recognize your own patterns, behaviors, thoughts, the more you will recognize in someone else.
Does this make sense??
It’s just gonna take some time to fully integrate. You will know when you have fully and completely healed when that book won’t matter, when you don’t need to connect with him anymore, when you can think of him and feel indifferent….no anger, no hurt, no craving for him etc. It’s a wonderful place to finally reach! You are heading in the right direction!!!
I am really proud of you! You have hung in there and really been open and able to receive all the different ideas we have offered. You have quite the strong spirit Latisha!
HeidiHi Christine,
Wow…you guys have been through quite a bit. Isn’t it crazy what love inspires us to do? Love can bring out the most amazing sides to a person as well as the darker sides to a person. Both of you have lied and hurt each other quite a bit. It’s been a tumultuous road for sure.
Regardless of the lies that have been exchanged, the one thing you really need to pay attention to is that he bailed after a year. He just up and left and didn’t talk to you much about it. It sounds like he really interested in getting married or falling in love to that level. Many people I have come across have chosen a cynical viewpoint of love due to their parents. It sounds like he has not really forgiven them for their choices. As long as he doesn’t resolve all of that baggage he is carrying around, he is not going to be available for anyone.
Even if you guys got back together, it doesn’t sound like he will let you in. Even if you gave up the idea of marriage, you will still want to keep growing closer and deeper with him over time and that is what he not really willing to do. It sounds like this issue is more about him than it is about you. I’m sure there were things you did to contribute, but bottom line, it sounds like he is just not that kind of guy who is available to take that journey with.
I know you still love him, however love is not enough to make a relationship last. It’s just part of the foundation. Do you feel like you could let this guy go? Or are you not willing at this point and you want him back?
Heidi
Okay then! That was really helpful information. It sounds like you are clear about what you want, so let’s see if we can help you on your path!
So what have you said to him to get him to meet up with you again? And you said he is beating around the bush….how is he doing that? What is his response to your efforts to connect? Does he ever initiate the texting / contact anymore or are you doing all the initiating? Is there anyway to find out if he is dating someone else at the moment?
Heidi
It is very difficult to know what you are getting into until you see someone handle stress. That is what makes falling in love the biggest risk ever! Your heart gets wrapped up with their heart and then hurt starts to show up and test how each person treats each other.
There is never any guarantee however there are ways to see into the person to better know what you are getting into. For example, I ask a lot of questions about how he responds to stress and how he has handled times like that in his past. I’m not only paying attention to how he responded in the past, but also the kinds of words he uses to explain the situation, his tone of voice, his body language. how comfortable he is talking about it, how deep he goes into the story etc. The thing is, we develop our coping mechanisms as children. It’s how we learn to survive the hard times in life. I tend to get really quiet and have passive aggressive type of tendencies. I had to work on that side of myself for a loooong time to make different choices that were healthier. You would easily be able to know this about me by just asking some questions about my stress responses from my past (that is, if I am choosing to be completely authentic and honest). That is one of many approaches to get a sneak peak into what is in your future with this person.
Another, more aggressive way to see someone’s response to stress is to mess up. There are a gazillion ways to mess things up. You can be late for a date, you can drop food or a drink on his clothes, you can “accidentally” get lost, you can forget something that he has to go back and get with you etc. Many people raise their eyebrows at this approach because why would you want to mess up a perfectly good date??? Well….if I am really starting to like a guy and considering letting him in a little deeper, I want to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a good guy, even during difficult times. SO MANY TIMES, you don’t really know that about a person until months down the road when stress shows up! So why not slightly expedite the process and create little mini stresses here and there and see what he does with them. If he blows up, treats you badly or has any negative behavior during those moments, THEN THAT IS A HUGE REVEAL about what you would face with him when things get really difficult.
Of course, there is no full proof way to know your future with someone, so the best you can do is become more aware and become really educated as to how to look for those caution flags. I’ll tell ya, it has saved me many, many times both with friends and guys I was dating. AND…even with the incredible amount of information I have about human behavior, love etc…I can still be fooled. That’s just the reality of all of it, so bottom line is that I use the skills that I have and if I get fooled or get involved with someone not so healthy for me at some point, I trust myself to be okay when it happens. It is what allows me to take a risk in the first place.
So after all that I have said, your reality is that you invested in a man and believed in a man and he didn’t quite turn out to be the kind of person you thought….a man that was stable, handled stress well, a good communicator and safe…and that is just plain disappointing. That hardest part is that you got to experience the side of him that is also all of those things. You would not have fallen for him if he weren’t those things. Stress just brought out the other side to him that was not good at relationship. There is nothing you could have done. Even though you could look back and see where you could have been better for him, it doesn’t change that he came to the table with all of that baggage way before you showed up and that is where he is responsible for himself. That side to him would show up regardless of how amazing you are to him. It’s inevitable that our baggage leaks out at some point and affects our person.
One of my very favorite quotes by Marianne Williamson: “Until we have seen someone’s darkness, we don’t really know who they are. Until we have forgiven someone’s darkness, we don’t really know what love is.” Just to add onto that, we also have to be able to forgive our own darkness and that sounds like the place that he is stuck. SO again, no matter how much you forgive him and are ready to move on and re-create, he has to be able to do that for himself or it will never work.
From everything you shared, you really did the very best that you could and that is enough. You can lead a horse to water, but cannot make him drink. He missed out on you and that makes me sad for him.
Heidi
