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HI Emily!
I have no doubt that they would have zero clue that you would have interest in either of them. You are out on dates when they see you, they probably see you talking to lots of different people all of the time and there is nothing you have done to show either of them you are interested. Latin men LOVE blonds. I imagine you may already know that! Of course that is a generalization, but push comes to shove, if he likes you and you open the door a bit, I imagine he would figure out how to push the door open more. Most guys just need the signal and they take it the rest of the way. It’s part of how I “test” a guy. If I send out the signal and he doesn’t have the strength to respond, even if he likes me, then he is not my type. I need a guy who goes after what he wants and has that kind of confidence.
So maybe if they go to the next even you invited them to, flirt a bit and see what happens!
This is so interesting and fun! Keep us updated!!!
Heidi
Hi Joan!
I’m glad he is responding and talking with you. That’s definitely a good start!
The first thing I want you to do is not attach his choices to “love” or lack thereof. People say things like “If he loved me, he wouldn’t do this” and it’s actually rarely true. It’s actually about loving HIMSELF. If he loved himself, he would take care of himself, his life and protect all of it and care for it in a way that is valuable. He made a choice that was contrary to that. He made a choice that was not caring or protecting the world and life HE created. He was sabotaging. Why? Only he can answer that. It’s not uncommon that people sabotage BECAUSE they are falling in love. It scares the crap out of them, so they sabotage it (unknowingly of course). He may not even not the CORE reason behind what he did. It takes someone who has a high emotional intelligence to understand their symptoms of being “off” and what the core root issues are. My guess is, he may only be connected to a surface reason for what he did. My guess is, this is NOT the first time this has happened either with you or other women he has been in relationship with. My guess is, this is a pattern….how frequently? Only he knows the honest answer to that and I doubt he would tell you. This is about HIM and not you. This is about whatever he is dealing with and not about whether or not he loves you.
It’s also VERY important that you are clear about what you need from him in order to feel okay about moving forward. If you feel okay with just talking about it and him apologizing, then that’s all you need. Make sure you really let it go though! No holding this over his head! If you feel like you need him to really explore his behavior further, then what would you like him to do?
As far as how to respond to how he feels, all you need to do is listen. Understand that whatever is being taught in a course is ONE way that works, not THE way. Not everyone responds and that’s normal. So what I coach people to do is to have SEVERAL skills to pull from and in any given situation, 1 of them is bound to hit the mark. The basic way I coach people through “challenge” is to LISTEN, then VALIDATE, then ASK QUESTION AND GET CURIOUS, then PROBLEM SOLVE. Following it in this order is crucial. Most people like to problem solve first and that can really cause discord. Listen first and then let him know you hear him, understand what he is saying and ask more questions about it. Ask for specific examples. Ask how long he has been feeling this way. Then you head into problem solving. You can ask what he would like you to do instead.
And lastly, his friend needs to STAY OUT of your relationship. Do not go to him for any more conversations about your guy. First, understand he is speaking from HIS perspective. He could very easily be mis-interpreting your guy’s words and feelings. Second, you need to be hearing from your guy how he is feeling, not his friend. It’s childish what they are doing. It’s having your friend tell the girlfriend instead of being a grown up. That’s what junior high kids do….not grown adults. So make sure that you let him know that his friend is no longer a source for you. You want to hear how HE feels from his own mouth and no one else’s. If he really is feeling everything that his friend told you, then there obviously is a HUGE communication problem here. He is not being honest nor authentic with how he is feeling about your relationship. He is leaving you in the dark, all the while you are taking courses to learn how to be a better partner. This may be a big part of why he would rather cheat. Maybe you guys would consider some coaching or therapy for 6 months or so and learn some skills TOGETHER.
I gave you a lot….hope it’s not too much!
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Catherine!
Of course you are frustrated! When there is no trust of his word, then there is no relationship. I know you might say that you trust him in other areas, but this is a biggie. This is about integrity, not just being late all of the time.
There are MANY things that could be contributing to this behavior.
1. It could be a form of procrastination, which usually is a symptom of HIDDEN anger. This operates under the belief that “I never got what I wanted and they (i.e. parents, teacher etc.) were never there for me, so I am not going to be there for other people.” So being late is a way of “withholding” from people. Now understand, this type of thinking is usually VERY buried and the person has NO CLUE about their anger…that’s why it’s referred to as HIDDEN anger.
2. It could be narcissism. He might operate under the belief that what he is doing needs to happen and is more important that being there for you. His needs before yours….he can always just apologize and everything will be okay. You will get over it.
3. Sometimes there really are personalities that just are not connected to time and structure. Kind of like “island time.” It’s a cultural thing. Island people run on their own schedules. It’s more chill, relaxed and non structured. However, you typically see this characteristic in other parts of their lives. They are just chill people in general, have little structure in their lives and a very “go with the flow” kind of personality.
I’m curious about his response when you broke it off and told him the reason. Did he just agree or did he try to convince you he will change???
Lastly, this is a SERIOUS issue. This is not something little. This pattern of his is getting in the way of relationship and is going to take TIME. 1 session with a therapist does not change anything. He needs EXTENDED therapy in order to really get to the root cause of how and why he designs his day the way he does. Is it just with you or does he have issues of being on time in all areas of his life?
A therapist needs A LOT of time to get to the deeper layers. So you have a choice. You can stay in it and maybe adapt by telling him to meet you at 5 when it really is 6, you can request for him to go back to counseling or you can part ways again.
What do you think?
Heidi
Hi Joan,
I responded to your thread in the other category, but I see you posted a ton more information here, so let’s just stick to this thread and keep communicating here.
Thanks for more details! You are correct to be cautious. First and foremost, it’s NOT YOUR fault. The reason that his friend gave to you about “not putting him first” could have truth to it (I don’t know) but still…all in all…if your guy feels like he isn’t getting his needs met, he needs to TELL you. It’s all on HIM that he made this kind of choice.
Men are extremely visually stimulated…we know that right? So on one hand, it really could have been a fun thing he was doing and he was just responding to a young girl thinking he was hot. It doesn’t take much for many men, to get “hooked” by another woman’s attentions. It really could be that innocent as far as why he did it.
However, the fact that he participated DOES tell you that he is willing to break his integrity. If he did this once, then yes, he can do it again…and maybe he already has but you just never found out. He may have a history of this in past relationships. I don’t know.
Here is the main concern. Yes, someone can mess up as we are all human. What I look for is what they DO about that messup. Do they just apologize and expect that whatever caused them to mess up in the first place is all of a sudden gone and it won’t be an issue again???? Think again!!! When breaking your integrity happens, the FIRST thing you should be doing is thinking “why?” and how can I prevent it from happening again. I have broken my integrity and HUGE alarm bells went off. I immediately started connecting the dots that caused me to go down that path. I identified why I made the choice I made, I understood the factors that lead up to my choice and I recognized, most of all…that I was capable of something I never in a million years would have guessed I would do. This was a good lesson for me. Not only to understand that I CAN break my integrity but also helped me understand the signs and symptoms that led me down that path…therefore I can pay more attention in the future, so I can avoid an unhealthy situation.
If someone just apologizes and says it will never happen again…and that is about as far as the conversation went….then yes…the odds of him doing this again are very high.
What is important for you to do is to maybe open up the conversation again and just get curious. He will be much more honest with you if he feels like you aren’t going to attack him. But if you went at it like this, “I really want to understand what happened. You broke your integrity. Regardless of whether it was “nothing” or not, you still broke your word and agreement to me about how we would exist in this relationship. That concerns me. You lied (and I understand why you would) but that concerns me. If we are to move forward and you want to build up trust with me again, then it will help me if we talk about this. Why you made that decision. Do you feel unsatisfied in our relationship? Am I missing something?”
That conversation will hopefully take you much deeper into what happened and maybe even help him get honest about his choices and how he can work on being a better partner.
That would be a good place to start.
Thoughts?
Hi Joan!
Thanks for trusting us with your question. How about sharing more details… Has this happened before? How long have you been in a relationship? How did you find out? What was his response?
Basically, if the agreement is monogamy, then sexting is not appropriate. I would a lot of things before I came to any conclusions about this. I would think about what was happening in your relationship, how he is feeling in his life, how his job is going etc. There are many variables that play into a person’s decision to start to “play with fire” by sexting another woman.
Do you have any thoughts about this?
Heidi
Oh Rachel! I am sooooo sorry! Of course you fell back into those intense emotions. You were asked to activate and remember all of your feelings for him!!!!
Again, remember this is normal. You have NOT gone backwards in your healing, although it may feel like that. It’s so important to keep getting those tears out and feeling the loss of someone who was so wonderful and special in your life.
You ask if you should give up on this guy? Well….if you choose to fight for him, that means you are choosing to ignore yourself and your needs. If you choose to fight for yourself and your needs, that means you need to let this guy go. So it really is about who you want to fight for most? Yourself or him?
I know he has a gazillion wonderful qualities! The thing is, he has 1 quality that makes a relationship NOT work….and that is he lets fear control his life. He is not willing to feel this good. He is not willing to deal with his beliefs about love. He will only be able to go so far with you and then he will bail. Even if you got back together and had an amazing time together (which you probably would) he won’t be able to sustain that. He won’t fight for himself. He would rather let fear sit in the driver’s seat and put love in the trunk. No matter how wonderful and amazing a person is, if that is the structure of their psyche, they will never be able to truly and deeply love someone.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Tee!
I totally followed you! It all makes perfect sense! Have you ever tried teaching your male friends how to support you??? Men instantly head into “fixing” mode when a woman tells them a problem. The thing is, most women just want to be listened to and supported. Most men do not know any better, so it’s our job to teach them. You can say, “I need your help. I want to share with you a challenge I am having, but I don’t want you to try and fix anything. I actually just need you to listen, ask me questions but mainly be supportive. All I really need right now is to just empty out and have someone listen to me and that’s it. Can you agree to that?”
I have done a version of that so many times and it works great! I am telling the guy how he can be my hero! Once I do that, it takes the pressure off of needing to fix my problem, because I gave them the way to make me feel better already. I always appreciate them in return and let them know how much their listening ears really helped me. Maybe try this approach???
As far as your trust cup 1/2 full and how you approach relationships, I would agree with your approach. It’s good to be cautious as you get to know someone. Most people have a really hard time with this particular topic as I there is always a major amount of risk involved and getting hurt. This is where the “walls” can be super tricky. Most times, walls are FULL of fear that comes from past experiences. So I always question my walls to see if there are any unhealthy fears in them that don’t belong there.
Here is what I am thinking though….you are extremely private and from what you have shared with me so far, it doesn’t sound like it’s very easy for you to voice your opinion and be honest. When he has asked you certain questions, you say you go quiet. You are VERY protective of your feelings, your thoughts, your opinions. If you want him to be on that rollercoaster ride alone…..if your trust cup is empty and if you don’t like being confused by him….what is stopping you from getting off the rollercoaster ride?
Heidi
Hi Abby,
I know. It is soooooooo hard. I wish there was a way around it. You reminded me of my very favorite quote!
“Love is my gift to the world. I fill myself with love, and I send that love out into the world. How others treat me is their path. How I react is mine.” Wayne Dyer
I know you want to just tell him off. Of course! How you treat him is more about the kind of person you want to be. It’s not fun to be the “nice” person in the face of rejection, however it is a graceful thing to do and something that few people are able to do in this world. So be different. Show him your kindness in the face of your hurt and anger. This will give him a very rare experience. I guarantee he will never forget it. Being graceful towards him will have more of an impact on him than yelling at him and being angry.
You can do this! Please please keep us updated!!!!
Heidi
Hi Shannon,
Yes….trust absolutely takes time! What you said gave me more detail to see that you are letting it in some. I have dealt with a lot of women who have been cheated on and a common response is to be passive aggressive. They commonly do this by not letting the guy back in. The guy is trying to open up more, be more honest, share more feelings while the woman deflects it and doesn’t receive it. It’s her way of punishing him for cheating…not giving him what he wants and making him “suffer” so to speak. I just wasn’t sure if that was what you were doing or not, so that’s why I was asking. It doesn’t sound like that is the path you are taking. It just sounds like you are being cautious and that is appropriate.
When is your counseling session together? How do you feel everything is going? It sounds like he is making more effort than ever and really appreciating you. Good for him! he is growing and doing what he said he was going to do. I have a lot of respect for that.
How you YOU processing all of this. You are an intelligent and self aware person so I know you have all kinds of thoughts and feelings about him and you currently. What are they?
Heidi
Hi Emily,
I would suggest to get to know the 2 guys a lot better first. Can you get into conversations with them at church at all? Get to know them individually and see if you REALLY like either of them for real vs. just a feeling. Be careful, as they are best friends and they will talk to each other about you.
Are there events at church that they go to where you can attend? Is there a way to start to be more social with either of them?
Heidi
Hi Shannon!
It sounds like he is starting to open up to you more. The things he is saying sound likes he is having the strength to be more honest with you. You say it is “sweet” but I am wondering what you really felt? To be honest, it sounds like you maybe are not trusting what he is saying? It sounds like you didn’t fully and completely absorb what he was really sharing with you. I could be wrong, so share with me about how those moments impacted you…or not…
heidi
Hi Abby,
I understand how you are feeling. There really is a point that you just can’t do anything more. The ball is in his court and if he doesn’t hit back, that is about HIS own issues of which you cannot fix. His issues are for him to fix.
If you are ready to create some closure, I like suggesting something to this affect:
“Hi GE. I admit that I am at a loss. I have tried everything I can think of to fix whatever is happening. I don’t know what else to do. You are not responding and that’s okay. It makes me sad, but it’s something I also have come to finally accept. I was hoping to create some resolution and learn from whatever is happening, but I can only do that with someone who is interested in the same thing. Your lack of response is telling me we are not on the same page anymore. I have finally come to a place where I can honor and respect your choice, therefore I am no longer going to contact you. I really wish you the best in everything you are doing. Maybe someday we can go to happy hour or something and re-connect, even if just as friends. My door is always open to that! Take care.”
How does this make you feel?
Heidi
Hi Tee,
Wow….a lot is happening isn’t it???
First, I understand the “male” perspective for the most part. I grew up with 2 brothers and 5 boys down the street. I was constantly surrounded by them….and of course all throughout my life, I had more male friends than female friends, because I was just more comfortable with the “boys.” Man did I hear ALL KINDS OF THINGS about what guys think and feel. It’s funny really! Truth be told, more people than not, have opinions about love and dating with VERY LITTLE deep understanding or self awareness of how their own personal issues pollute their opinions. I hardly listen to people’s opinions about love and dating unless they have really researched it, self-explored and seek to deeply understand all the dynamics.
So with that being said, I understand all the differing viewpoints and how that can be confusing!!! First and foremost, YOUR heart is what matters most here. YOU are the only one who knows what you need in order to feel safe in a relationship. My guess is, part of why you have so many walls up is because you are so sensitive. I’m gonna guess that you feel things VERY intensely. Therefore, when someone doesn’t respond to you well or judges you about how you are feeling or thinking, it’s hard for you to stay separate than their judgment and still hold to your truth. It sounds like other people’s opinions have A LOT of power in your life. Is that correct??
The stronger you become inside, the more those walls can come down. The walls essentially are saying, “I don’t trust myself to be able to handle whatever shows up in my life.” Once you build your relationship with yourself and have a very solid knowing of who you are, regardless of what other people think….THEN you will be able to feel more comfortable risking and trusting your ability to be resilient!
Does this make sense??
Basically, someone can judge you all they want, but it won’t affect you if you solidly believe otherwise. Let’s say you 100% believe the sky is blue. You have no doubt and would even bet your life on it. Then someone comes along and says no…the sky is purple. And you could argue about it, but reality is, that person’s viewpoint just doesn’t affect you because you KNOW the sky is blue…without a doubt. In your life, because you don’t feel solid about your truth, yourself, your opinions, your choices….when someone else comes along and has a different viewpoint and judges you….it hurts like crazy and is super uncomfortable! But if you were more solid…those judgments might feel like a scratch, but that’s about it. If it feels more than that, then the gift is that it is showing you where some of your “holes” or “fault lines” are in your relationship with yourself. It just shows you areas you can keep working on healing inside of yourself.I’ve said a lot, so let me know what you think first, before we continue forward!
Heidi
Hi Liga!
I know how hard that will be. I’ve gone through it myself. Reality is, by creating distance, he will either want to start initiating and connecting more or he will disconnect further. It gives you the kind of information you need so YOU can decide what you are willing to deal with. If he disconnects further, do you really want to be chasing a guy who isn’t that interested? NO WAY!!! You want to be with a guy who will jump at the opportunity to connect with you! If he ends up chasing you a bit more, then that gives you some important information about what he responds to. So either way, giving him the space to show you his true thoughts and feelings is important!
And in the meantime, having some extra fun couldn’t hurt! It’s helps to stay distracted and seeing and trying new things in your life. What kinds of fun things can you do, to spice up your life a bit more???
Heidi
Hi Nicole!
Thank you for sharing your struggles. I understand why you would be shocked. He is saying one thing and then behaving in a completely different way. There are many dynamics happening here, so let’s see if we can peel back the layers and get you better equipped to handle those challenging moments with him, with a lot more ease.
First, you have only been dating for 3.5 months. That means that things are still new and fresh and exciting and easy. I always tell people, you never know who that person REALLY is until you have seen them in their worst. It’s so important to pay close attention to how they handle stress, conflict and challenge in their lives. So when I am dating a guy, it’s nice to hear all the wonderful things he feels about me and the future together, but there is NO WAY I take any of that to heart until I have seen that all of that still holds true when he is faced with a challenge. I want to know how he treats me, himself and others around him. All the sweetest words in the world don’t matter if every time there is an argument, he bails. So…all that is happening right now is you seeing his coping mechanism and how he is handling challenge. It’s a tough one if he is ready to breakup. I don’t know if this has been a lifelong pattern of his, or maybe it’s his new pattern since his wife died. That might be something you want to ask him and talk about so you can learn about him.
Second, you are also being triggered, just like he was. BOTH of your buttons have gotten pushed. Whenever a trigger happens, most people say and do things out of high emotion, as they are not in their right mind. When emotions get intense like that, we actually drop into lower centers of our brain where we don’t have access to higher, logical, appropriate thinking. In the lower centers of our brain, the intense emotions are running our thoughts and we head into fight or flight mode. So first and foremost, I always encourage people to NEVER make any decisions out of that high emotional space. I like to use the SUD Scale. (Subjective Units of Distress Scale). It’s a scale of 1-10 where you rate your feelings. Anything over a 5, you are in the lower centers of your brain. I like to teach people that you want to calm down and get yourself down to a 3 or 4 (at the highest) and THEN have a conversation when you are more in control and can think and feel more rationally.
Maybe have a discussion with him where you say, “I am learning about your and see that when you get triggered, you want to run away from me. Then you trigger me into my abandonment issues. We are quite the pair aren’t we? lol. So now that we know, let’s find another way to work around this. I find you to be an incredible man that I want to continue to get to know, so I would like to figure out a more effective way to handle our challenges, so we don’t hurt each other.” I would suggest to talk about that when you argue, there is NO MENTION of leaving or breaking up if the emotions are above a 4. So maybe he would agree to talk about how he is feeling first and working through the situation vs. running. I would also want to ask him what specifically triggered him to want to leave. That’s important for you to know and understand about him. This is a good place to start. There are many more things to do, but I’m gonna stop here and let you think about it.Let me know your thoughts and we can go from there.
Heidi
