Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
HI Debra,
I wanted to check in and see how you were doing. Any new developments? Where are you at with all of this?
Heidi
Hi Catherine,
You said you “think” he is seeing a therapist. Maybe it’s important for you to find out for sure. If he is, it would be helpful for him to share with you what he is learning about himself and this issue. I would want to hear what the therapist is doing with him. What is the therapist saying, how is the therapist guiding him towards changing? what kinds of homework is the therapist wanting him to do and practice?
I think you will find more patience when you have more understanding about what is actually happening for him and EXACTLY what he is doing to change things. You say some things are changing, so what would be an example of that?
Lastly, this is a great opportunity for YOU to work on forgiveness. You are so easily triggered into frustration because there is still left over feelings about the past. If you want to stay and really work through this with him, forgiving him for his limitations is important. If it weren’t this issue, it would something else. There is ALWAYS something we have to deal with. So it’s up to you how much you want to fight for him. Maybe even think about what YOU are doing that is difficult for him to deal with in the relationship. It might help you find some compassion for his challenges when you connect to your own challenges and how hard it is to change a negative pattern.
You leaving him isn’t going to change anything for him. This is part of his daily living, whether you are there or not. It’s a pattern woven into every areas of his life. If he is seeing a therapist or someone who is actively helping him with this on a weekly basis, then he is doing what he can. If he isn’t seeing someone to help him with this, then maybe make that the next request.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Rachel,
I know the heartache all too well. You feel like a piece of you is just missing and it aches so deep. It’s only been 2 months. I know you think you should feel better by now, but it’s just not true, for this situation. Something very deep has been activated for you, in a very specific way. It’s just going to take more time.
Here is a tapping video for you. I do tapping all the time! It’s a WONDRFUL technique that can help move emotion. I suggest that before you start tapping, rate your feelings on a scale of 1-10. 10 is the most intense, 1 being barely intense. Then start tapping. Even if you only have a minute, do it for a minute. If you have 15 minutes, do it for 15 minutes. Each and every single time you do it, it moves the emotions. With something as intense as you are experiencing, it’s going to take some time and is not a magic bullet, but I will tell you, that every single time I’ve done tapping, I have been able to move the numbers 2-3 levels down from where I started. It can help you go from an 8 or 9 down to a 6. It will be able to help you function in your life better and not feel like you are drowning in sadness. You are going to make it through this. Get after this and tap as much as possible!
Heidi
Hi Debra,
I know how confusing this is! He said and did one thing and now did a complete 180 and ghosted.
I have 2 guesses as to why he did this, but you are ultimately right….you will never really know. It’s hard. I have personally dealt with ghosting as well as coached a TON of people through it. Since the online dating craze took hold of the dating scene, ghosting is the #1, very hurtful and frustrating behavior that has shown up. It’s so sad that it’s so common. The goal is to learn to love and accept yourself even though the other person isn’t. The goal is to learn to be comfortable in the middle of “not knowing what happened.” We all love to have closure. It helps us move on. It’s a whole different thing trying to move on when we don’t have closure, so it’s important for you to create closure for yourself.
The foundation of a solid relationship that is able to last, solely relies on how the couple treats each other in their worst. When stress shows up, do they talk? Do they treat each other with kindness? Do they treat themselves the same way? Are they respectful towards each other? If these qualities don’t exist in a relationship WHEN THINGS GET UNCOMFORTABLE OR STRESSFUL, then the relationship is on the path to separation at some point.
I understand you had a great connection with him and how hard that is to come by. However, connection is the easy part…it is not the whole part. You built this whole idea about who he is and created a wonderful story about a life and journey you could take together.
It’s hard to let go because you haven’t quite let go of the dream you created around him. You are missing a BIG part of the dream….he is someone who completely has dis-honored you and just bailed. He didn’t communicate, he didn’t create closure…instead he is just running away and leaving you to feel used and fooled. This is how he handles stress. This is the kind of person he is when he gets uncomfortable. Is this the kind of guy that is in your dream?
Instead of wishing to keep him in your life, get angry at him for how he has treated you! He pushed you aside and is behaving like a junior high little boy. At the very least, he could have just said, “I’m not ready.” He doesn’t deserve your heart. He doesn’t deserve your attentions. He doesn’t deserve friendship. That connection is great, but it needs time to build some substance behind it for it to become something real. He didn’t give it that time. He would rather just disappear and not care about how that affects you, than to be honest.
I realize I have taken the opposite approach here and played the devil’s advocate. I would love your thoughts on this.
Heidi
Hi Joan,
Thank you for giving such great detail! You are quite grounded and able to look at this situation with some incredible objectivity. It just tells me how much strength you have to be able to look at the truth. That is incredibly rare!!! When you think about being alone and the fear comes up….you remember what I am telling you about yourself. It doesn’t make the fear go away, because it won’t. The fear will be there regardless. It’s more about putting your fear in your “little red wagon” and moving forward anyways. Whatever decisions you make in life, the goal is to NOT allow the fear to decide for you. You don’t want to decide to stay with your guy because you are afraid to be alone. You want to stay with him, because you believe that this relationship can support you, nourish you, help you grow and give you an experience of love going deeper and deeper. You want to stay because you BELIEVE in the relationship. Again, the fear of being alone will be there, but you need to be in the driver’s seat and put fear in the back seat. You are in control, not the fear.
In regards to your guy, one of the most important things is that he is loved and accepted for EXACTLY who he is. I have no doubt he has some wonderful sides to him, or you wouldn’t be with him. However, that is not where the deal breakers live. The deal breakers live on the not so pretty sides of us. I’m just going to reflect back to you what you have said.
Your top 3 non-negotiable qualities in a relationship: HONESTY, LOYALTY and COMMUNICATION. Those are great qualities to require. Let’s look at him. He is not any of those sometimes…and those “sometimes” is when it most needed:
1. He has not been honest about porn and sexting (I guarantee he does is more than you realize)
2. He has not been honest about his feelings in the relationship. He tells his friend instead.3. He is not loyal. He was more than willing to have sex with someone else.
4. He doesn’t communicate with you. He doesn’t tell you how he is REALLY feeling about himself and his life. A lot of what you know about him is by observation and putting the pieces of the puzzle together on your own.
The reality here is, you are wanting something from him that he will not be able to offer to you. These choices he is making and how he functions in a relationship is WHO HE IS. He functions this way because he has woundedness and low self esteem and a ton of fear…all of which are in the driver’s seat…not him. Therefore, he will continue to sabotage, he will continue to NOT communicate, he will continue to define his value by his external world. The only way to change any of that is to really start to look INSIDE and face what is going on. He doesn’t sound like the kind of guy that will do that willingly. Who knows though…some people surprise me. Regardless….no matter what he says in that conversation you have with him, at the end of it, he will still be making the same choices in the future. He still won’t communicate, he still will talk to his friend even if you don’t want him to, he still will sext and look at porn and keep it a secret. If you stay, that means it’s important that you ACCEPT who you are choosing and what comes along with that. And that’s okay!!! There may be enough other wonderful things about the relationship that you are willing to know these things about him and take a journey with him anyways.
So before you enter into this conversation, it’s important for you to get VERY CLEAR about what you want from him. Even if her were to tell you the real truth and the “why” he did it and why he is unhappy in the relationship and you start to work on things, it will not change that it took him getting caught sexting and you confronting him as well as his friend telling you to “back off” to even find out that he has some challenges and needs not being met. So what do you want him to do about that? I know you will request for him to communicate to you, but reality is, people that don’t communicate do not, all of a sudden, start communicating. They have a HUGE fear around it.
If you want to stay, I suggest getting some thoughts in order about what kinds of ACTIONS you would like to see for the relationship to change in a more positive direction. Maybe you guys can go to a couples weekend workshop where you learn new skills to practice. Maybe you can go through an online program together…or even a go through a book together. Maybe he would be willing to see a coach or therapist or maybe you go together. If things are going to change, there needs to be action of some sort. Otherwise, you will circle back around into this same spot again at some point.
Lastly, you are not responsible for his needs. I LOVE that you sign up for all of these programs to learn how to be a better partner. It’s great to have some good skillsets! AND….him watching porn or sexting is not because you don’t have the right skillset to make him happier. It’s because HE doesn’t have the right skillset to make HIMSELF happier.
Okay…I have said a lot and it’s a lot of not very fun stuff to hear. I hope this was okay. I want to help you get very clear about the kind of person you are choosing and how to go about either facing your fear of being alone or staying with him but requiring some action.
Looking forward to your response.
Heidi
HI Emily!
I have no doubt that they would have zero clue that you would have interest in either of them. You are out on dates when they see you, they probably see you talking to lots of different people all of the time and there is nothing you have done to show either of them you are interested. Latin men LOVE blonds. I imagine you may already know that! Of course that is a generalization, but push comes to shove, if he likes you and you open the door a bit, I imagine he would figure out how to push the door open more. Most guys just need the signal and they take it the rest of the way. It’s part of how I “test” a guy. If I send out the signal and he doesn’t have the strength to respond, even if he likes me, then he is not my type. I need a guy who goes after what he wants and has that kind of confidence.
So maybe if they go to the next even you invited them to, flirt a bit and see what happens!
This is so interesting and fun! Keep us updated!!!
Heidi
Hi Joan!
I’m glad he is responding and talking with you. That’s definitely a good start!
The first thing I want you to do is not attach his choices to “love” or lack thereof. People say things like “If he loved me, he wouldn’t do this” and it’s actually rarely true. It’s actually about loving HIMSELF. If he loved himself, he would take care of himself, his life and protect all of it and care for it in a way that is valuable. He made a choice that was contrary to that. He made a choice that was not caring or protecting the world and life HE created. He was sabotaging. Why? Only he can answer that. It’s not uncommon that people sabotage BECAUSE they are falling in love. It scares the crap out of them, so they sabotage it (unknowingly of course). He may not even not the CORE reason behind what he did. It takes someone who has a high emotional intelligence to understand their symptoms of being “off” and what the core root issues are. My guess is, he may only be connected to a surface reason for what he did. My guess is, this is NOT the first time this has happened either with you or other women he has been in relationship with. My guess is, this is a pattern….how frequently? Only he knows the honest answer to that and I doubt he would tell you. This is about HIM and not you. This is about whatever he is dealing with and not about whether or not he loves you.
It’s also VERY important that you are clear about what you need from him in order to feel okay about moving forward. If you feel okay with just talking about it and him apologizing, then that’s all you need. Make sure you really let it go though! No holding this over his head! If you feel like you need him to really explore his behavior further, then what would you like him to do?
As far as how to respond to how he feels, all you need to do is listen. Understand that whatever is being taught in a course is ONE way that works, not THE way. Not everyone responds and that’s normal. So what I coach people to do is to have SEVERAL skills to pull from and in any given situation, 1 of them is bound to hit the mark. The basic way I coach people through “challenge” is to LISTEN, then VALIDATE, then ASK QUESTION AND GET CURIOUS, then PROBLEM SOLVE. Following it in this order is crucial. Most people like to problem solve first and that can really cause discord. Listen first and then let him know you hear him, understand what he is saying and ask more questions about it. Ask for specific examples. Ask how long he has been feeling this way. Then you head into problem solving. You can ask what he would like you to do instead.
And lastly, his friend needs to STAY OUT of your relationship. Do not go to him for any more conversations about your guy. First, understand he is speaking from HIS perspective. He could very easily be mis-interpreting your guy’s words and feelings. Second, you need to be hearing from your guy how he is feeling, not his friend. It’s childish what they are doing. It’s having your friend tell the girlfriend instead of being a grown up. That’s what junior high kids do….not grown adults. So make sure that you let him know that his friend is no longer a source for you. You want to hear how HE feels from his own mouth and no one else’s. If he really is feeling everything that his friend told you, then there obviously is a HUGE communication problem here. He is not being honest nor authentic with how he is feeling about your relationship. He is leaving you in the dark, all the while you are taking courses to learn how to be a better partner. This may be a big part of why he would rather cheat. Maybe you guys would consider some coaching or therapy for 6 months or so and learn some skills TOGETHER.
I gave you a lot….hope it’s not too much!
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Catherine!
Of course you are frustrated! When there is no trust of his word, then there is no relationship. I know you might say that you trust him in other areas, but this is a biggie. This is about integrity, not just being late all of the time.
There are MANY things that could be contributing to this behavior.
1. It could be a form of procrastination, which usually is a symptom of HIDDEN anger. This operates under the belief that “I never got what I wanted and they (i.e. parents, teacher etc.) were never there for me, so I am not going to be there for other people.” So being late is a way of “withholding” from people. Now understand, this type of thinking is usually VERY buried and the person has NO CLUE about their anger…that’s why it’s referred to as HIDDEN anger.
2. It could be narcissism. He might operate under the belief that what he is doing needs to happen and is more important that being there for you. His needs before yours….he can always just apologize and everything will be okay. You will get over it.
3. Sometimes there really are personalities that just are not connected to time and structure. Kind of like “island time.” It’s a cultural thing. Island people run on their own schedules. It’s more chill, relaxed and non structured. However, you typically see this characteristic in other parts of their lives. They are just chill people in general, have little structure in their lives and a very “go with the flow” kind of personality.
I’m curious about his response when you broke it off and told him the reason. Did he just agree or did he try to convince you he will change???
Lastly, this is a SERIOUS issue. This is not something little. This pattern of his is getting in the way of relationship and is going to take TIME. 1 session with a therapist does not change anything. He needs EXTENDED therapy in order to really get to the root cause of how and why he designs his day the way he does. Is it just with you or does he have issues of being on time in all areas of his life?
A therapist needs A LOT of time to get to the deeper layers. So you have a choice. You can stay in it and maybe adapt by telling him to meet you at 5 when it really is 6, you can request for him to go back to counseling or you can part ways again.
What do you think?
Heidi
Hi Joan,
I responded to your thread in the other category, but I see you posted a ton more information here, so let’s just stick to this thread and keep communicating here.
Thanks for more details! You are correct to be cautious. First and foremost, it’s NOT YOUR fault. The reason that his friend gave to you about “not putting him first” could have truth to it (I don’t know) but still…all in all…if your guy feels like he isn’t getting his needs met, he needs to TELL you. It’s all on HIM that he made this kind of choice.
Men are extremely visually stimulated…we know that right? So on one hand, it really could have been a fun thing he was doing and he was just responding to a young girl thinking he was hot. It doesn’t take much for many men, to get “hooked” by another woman’s attentions. It really could be that innocent as far as why he did it.
However, the fact that he participated DOES tell you that he is willing to break his integrity. If he did this once, then yes, he can do it again…and maybe he already has but you just never found out. He may have a history of this in past relationships. I don’t know.
Here is the main concern. Yes, someone can mess up as we are all human. What I look for is what they DO about that messup. Do they just apologize and expect that whatever caused them to mess up in the first place is all of a sudden gone and it won’t be an issue again???? Think again!!! When breaking your integrity happens, the FIRST thing you should be doing is thinking “why?” and how can I prevent it from happening again. I have broken my integrity and HUGE alarm bells went off. I immediately started connecting the dots that caused me to go down that path. I identified why I made the choice I made, I understood the factors that lead up to my choice and I recognized, most of all…that I was capable of something I never in a million years would have guessed I would do. This was a good lesson for me. Not only to understand that I CAN break my integrity but also helped me understand the signs and symptoms that led me down that path…therefore I can pay more attention in the future, so I can avoid an unhealthy situation.
If someone just apologizes and says it will never happen again…and that is about as far as the conversation went….then yes…the odds of him doing this again are very high.
What is important for you to do is to maybe open up the conversation again and just get curious. He will be much more honest with you if he feels like you aren’t going to attack him. But if you went at it like this, “I really want to understand what happened. You broke your integrity. Regardless of whether it was “nothing” or not, you still broke your word and agreement to me about how we would exist in this relationship. That concerns me. You lied (and I understand why you would) but that concerns me. If we are to move forward and you want to build up trust with me again, then it will help me if we talk about this. Why you made that decision. Do you feel unsatisfied in our relationship? Am I missing something?”
That conversation will hopefully take you much deeper into what happened and maybe even help him get honest about his choices and how he can work on being a better partner.
That would be a good place to start.
Thoughts?
Hi Joan!
Thanks for trusting us with your question. How about sharing more details… Has this happened before? How long have you been in a relationship? How did you find out? What was his response?
Basically, if the agreement is monogamy, then sexting is not appropriate. I would a lot of things before I came to any conclusions about this. I would think about what was happening in your relationship, how he is feeling in his life, how his job is going etc. There are many variables that play into a person’s decision to start to “play with fire” by sexting another woman.
Do you have any thoughts about this?
Heidi
Oh Rachel! I am sooooo sorry! Of course you fell back into those intense emotions. You were asked to activate and remember all of your feelings for him!!!!
Again, remember this is normal. You have NOT gone backwards in your healing, although it may feel like that. It’s so important to keep getting those tears out and feeling the loss of someone who was so wonderful and special in your life.
You ask if you should give up on this guy? Well….if you choose to fight for him, that means you are choosing to ignore yourself and your needs. If you choose to fight for yourself and your needs, that means you need to let this guy go. So it really is about who you want to fight for most? Yourself or him?
I know he has a gazillion wonderful qualities! The thing is, he has 1 quality that makes a relationship NOT work….and that is he lets fear control his life. He is not willing to feel this good. He is not willing to deal with his beliefs about love. He will only be able to go so far with you and then he will bail. Even if you got back together and had an amazing time together (which you probably would) he won’t be able to sustain that. He won’t fight for himself. He would rather let fear sit in the driver’s seat and put love in the trunk. No matter how wonderful and amazing a person is, if that is the structure of their psyche, they will never be able to truly and deeply love someone.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Tee!
I totally followed you! It all makes perfect sense! Have you ever tried teaching your male friends how to support you??? Men instantly head into “fixing” mode when a woman tells them a problem. The thing is, most women just want to be listened to and supported. Most men do not know any better, so it’s our job to teach them. You can say, “I need your help. I want to share with you a challenge I am having, but I don’t want you to try and fix anything. I actually just need you to listen, ask me questions but mainly be supportive. All I really need right now is to just empty out and have someone listen to me and that’s it. Can you agree to that?”
I have done a version of that so many times and it works great! I am telling the guy how he can be my hero! Once I do that, it takes the pressure off of needing to fix my problem, because I gave them the way to make me feel better already. I always appreciate them in return and let them know how much their listening ears really helped me. Maybe try this approach???
As far as your trust cup 1/2 full and how you approach relationships, I would agree with your approach. It’s good to be cautious as you get to know someone. Most people have a really hard time with this particular topic as I there is always a major amount of risk involved and getting hurt. This is where the “walls” can be super tricky. Most times, walls are FULL of fear that comes from past experiences. So I always question my walls to see if there are any unhealthy fears in them that don’t belong there.
Here is what I am thinking though….you are extremely private and from what you have shared with me so far, it doesn’t sound like it’s very easy for you to voice your opinion and be honest. When he has asked you certain questions, you say you go quiet. You are VERY protective of your feelings, your thoughts, your opinions. If you want him to be on that rollercoaster ride alone…..if your trust cup is empty and if you don’t like being confused by him….what is stopping you from getting off the rollercoaster ride?
Heidi
Hi Abby,
I know. It is soooooooo hard. I wish there was a way around it. You reminded me of my very favorite quote!
“Love is my gift to the world. I fill myself with love, and I send that love out into the world. How others treat me is their path. How I react is mine.” Wayne Dyer
I know you want to just tell him off. Of course! How you treat him is more about the kind of person you want to be. It’s not fun to be the “nice” person in the face of rejection, however it is a graceful thing to do and something that few people are able to do in this world. So be different. Show him your kindness in the face of your hurt and anger. This will give him a very rare experience. I guarantee he will never forget it. Being graceful towards him will have more of an impact on him than yelling at him and being angry.
You can do this! Please please keep us updated!!!!
Heidi
Hi Shannon,
Yes….trust absolutely takes time! What you said gave me more detail to see that you are letting it in some. I have dealt with a lot of women who have been cheated on and a common response is to be passive aggressive. They commonly do this by not letting the guy back in. The guy is trying to open up more, be more honest, share more feelings while the woman deflects it and doesn’t receive it. It’s her way of punishing him for cheating…not giving him what he wants and making him “suffer” so to speak. I just wasn’t sure if that was what you were doing or not, so that’s why I was asking. It doesn’t sound like that is the path you are taking. It just sounds like you are being cautious and that is appropriate.
When is your counseling session together? How do you feel everything is going? It sounds like he is making more effort than ever and really appreciating you. Good for him! he is growing and doing what he said he was going to do. I have a lot of respect for that.
How you YOU processing all of this. You are an intelligent and self aware person so I know you have all kinds of thoughts and feelings about him and you currently. What are they?
Heidi
Hi Emily,
I would suggest to get to know the 2 guys a lot better first. Can you get into conversations with them at church at all? Get to know them individually and see if you REALLY like either of them for real vs. just a feeling. Be careful, as they are best friends and they will talk to each other about you.
Are there events at church that they go to where you can attend? Is there a way to start to be more social with either of them?
Heidi
