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Hi Sharon!
This is all such wonderful information! Thank you for sharing all of this!
First, I want to take you even deeper. Where does this scarcity belief come from? Who says there isn’t enough good men?
Second, there is another lie you are giving so much authority. You believe that if a man leaves, it’s because YOU have done something wrong. A response that is full of truth would be: “It didn’t work out because we were just not a good match.” This is one of the core negative beliefs you have about yourself and what is DRIVING you to try to be “perfect” and “win” a man. This is exhausting because it’s impossible! This negative belief was also learned along the way. Do you know who role modeled this for you? Maybe you were blamed a lot while growing up?
What kinds of self love / work etc. have you done? Who have you learned from? have you ever worked SERIOUSLY with a coach or therapist to get to the root of all of this?
I am wondering why you have chosen polyamory in the first place. What about it, attracted you? Of course it’s exhausting! But it really depends on the personality you have as well. You have to consider what level of depth you truly want. For some people, their level of depth is not even scratching the surface for me. So they will be happy with and attract partners to match their level of depth. So the determining factor here for you, is how deep do you want to go with yourself? That will determine the level of depth you will attract in a partnership.
When you were celibate for that year, what was your depression about? Why did you make that choice? Why do you think it was having sex with your friend that started to pull you out of the depression?
Heidi
Hi Maria!
Well done! You handled your own situation in such a wonderful and healthy way! You seriously get a gazillion gold stars!!!!
I first want to talk about a core difference between men and women. The core of who a man is, is his ability to produce. He NEEDS to produce and make something, in order to feel good about himself. For women, it’s all about connection. The core of who we are is founded on our abilities to have good relationships. This is why you were able to talk to him about your process, you reached out to a therapist and other women to get through it….it was all about you CONNECTING to yourself and others for your healing. That is something very instinctive for most women. It’s a completely different ballgame for men. This not their instinct. It goes against the grain actually. If a man needs help, it reflects on his ability to produce on his own…so a lot of men who are really tied to their ego and “manliness” through external means….would have an INCREDIBLE challenge to ask for help from another man. You are about as close as he is going to get to asking for help at this point.
You don’t want to directly ask him about articles or support groups. It will most likely make him shut down. What you want to do is to “accidentally” leave an article you are reading about men recovering (or something of that nature) on the counter where he will see it. You want to “accidentally” leave a webpage up on your computer about this topic so maybe he will see it. It’s an indirect way to expose him to the information which will allow him to become interested himself vs. feeling pressure from you. If he asks you what you are doing, you can just say, “Look. I understand what you are going through on many levels as I had my own experience. But I am a woman. Men experience things differently. I know it’s difficult for you to talk about it, so I am just doing my own research so I can understand better. That’s all. I hope you don’t mind.”
How does this make you feel?
Heidi
Hi Eva,
Thank you for more details! Is that normal for you to cry a lot? When you say you are sensitive, does that mean you feel things intensely all the time? Like you can feel someone’s hurt or joy? How does your sensitivity show up for you?
With everything he is dealing with, I can see why your tears would cause him to step away. He is already dealing with so much. Most men (and people) for that matter, are really uncomfortable with someone crying. It can be quite the feeling of powerlessness for him to try to set some boundaries and create some personal space for himself, only to have you start crying. It’s okay though! There are things we can try.
First of all, when you guys text every week, who initiates? During your texts, are you still the one asking most of the questions, or does he show interest in you as well?
You can start by creating a bit of distance and showing a little less interest. It allows him the space to feel like he misses you. You can also tell him about the wonderful things you are doing in your life, so he knows that you are not falling apart without him. That’s very important!!!!
Let’s just start with that and see how it goes. Let me know what you think about it!
Heidi
Hi Shinthuga!
Thank you so much for sharing your story! I have to say….wow! I have an incredible amount of respect for you! The path you have taken for educating yourself and being honest is soooooo unusual! STDs are a topic most everyone steers away from and that is one of the main reasons why it’s so wide spread! Herpes and HPV are the 2 most common and anywhere from 25 to 30% are carriers! That’s a TON of people! That’s about 1 person out of every 4 you meet. There definitely is a stigma and a lot of embarrassment around STDs, but I am soooo so glad you took control of the situation, recognized you weren’t resolved about it and did something about it! And yes…it isn’t a big deal. It is just a skin condition and something that is easily manageable and at the most, an inconvenience, but nothing to be afraid of.
I am wondering if it means more to this guy beyond the herpes. Is he religious at all? Or part of any particular spiritual practice? I have heard guys say before, that the herpes is just a reminder that their girl has been sexual with another man and they can’t stand the thought of that. Of course it’s not rational, but it IS a very real feeling. Maybe this is part of the equation as well???
If you decide to approach the subject again with this guy, you can say something like “Hey. I realized after you decided to discontinue dating me because of the herpes, that I had never faced it about myself. I felt awful and embarrassed, so I decided to work on that. I went to a few support groups and I became very educated about all the aspects of herpes and how it affects me and any partners. I learned that it really is not a big deal. It is easily manageable and there are ways to protect your partner. Most of all, I am at peace now about it. I just wanted to share this with you, as when we talked about it, I wasn’t very educated and because of that, may have deterred you. I truly enjoyed getting to know you and would love for that to continue I know you still may not be able to get past this, but if you can at least be open to meet just for coffee, it would make my day. If not, that’s okay too. I will respect your choice.”
How does saying something like this feel for you?
Heidi
Hi Eva,
Welcome! Thank you for sharing your situation here. Let’s see if we can help you figure some things out.
If I understand correctly, he is feeling like he needs more space. He feels like you are “needy” and that is the main problem here….is that correct?
It definitely is a strong reaction for you to cry when he tells you he doesn’t want to talk or hang out. What’s going on with how you are feeling? What are your tears about?
It also sounds like you ask a lot of questions and want to talk a lot and it’s overwhelming for him. Is that accurate? But it doesn’t sound like that is how it was in the beginning. I’m wondering if school ending, you leaving and he is having some challenges facing his life…that a relationship feels like too much work for him. Do you think this could also be contributing to how he is responding?
Heidi
Hi Miranda,
I am so so sorry! My heart is breaking for you.
I’m curious, what did you say? Or…since you said you seem to push people away by asking for your needs, what do you think you are doing to ruin the relationships?
You are doing the best you can. You can explain until you are blue in the face about something and even take responsibility for what happened, but if someone isn’t able to get past that….I would suggest to accept that and let it go. Do you really want to fight for a guy that is that fragile or scared or uninterested in fighting for the relationship? This is not just about what you said…this is also about seeing his ability to deal with stress, hurt feelings, how he communicates (or doesn’t) and what he does with all of that. So far, he is not passing with flying colors. So far, he saw a side to you that he didn’t like. And he gets to not like it. He may rationalize himself into thinking that it won’t work and he gets to do that to. Regardless, you need a guy who can accept those parts of you….your humanness…your limitations….your challenges. Because he will see sooooo many other wonderful things about you, that he will feel you are worth it to have in his life. Maybe you did mess up and maybe you could have done things better. AND….sometimes things will break because there is just something fragile about it. It’s better to find out now that he is a “runner.” He is not the type to stay and fight and talk things through. That is NOT YOUR FAULT! That is on him.
Now with all of that being said, you wrote a letter and did what you could to explain it. Who knows what he will say. Maybe he will explain something that will help you understand his reaction better. Either way, the ball is in his court. He needs to fight for the relationship. You have put your efforts in, now he needs to do the same. So keep your distance and honor the space and see what he does….
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Dawn!
Dating can very difficult and confusing right? What’s funny, is sooooo many of the men I coach, say the exact same thing about women. Reality is, every one of us is complicated. We have soooo many layers to us. They say that about 20% of us is conscious, whereas the other 80% of us, lives form the subconscious. So…with that being said, the majority of how we live, the decisions we make, the partners we choose, the jobs we choose….all come from this mysterious place that we aren’t connected to. So that makes us ALL very complicated. The goal is, to get to know yourself deeper and deeper and deeper and therefore, have more access to the subconscious so you can build your life more consciously.
If you did blow it, then that’s okay. If he is not able to get through a bit of a very small speed bump, then it’s probably not a good match long term. I have seen people do make some MAJOR mistakes in the beginning, but there was just something more in the relationship that kept them together. So it’s not about how you behave or doing the “right” thing all of the time. There are so many other things that influence whether or not something works out. So be kind to yourself. The best thing you can ALWAYS do…is love yourself and stay connected to yourself when you do mess up.
Time will reveal whether or not this is something that has some substance. As Kanya said, keep having fun. Keep taking care of YOUR life and keep making other plans. This is CRUCIAL. He needs to know you can take care of yourself. He needs to pursue you. The love conversation was definitely way too soon anyways. I might have said something like, “I wouldn’t expect you to feel like you are falling in love with me. You barely know me. I know I like you and I know that I would like to go on another date with you and that’s it. Let’s just leave it at that!”
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Marcela,
Man, this is so frustrating!!! I am so sorry you having to deal with this.
Here is my question to you….what is going on, inside of you, that you are wanting to fight for a guy who clearly is flaky, a poor communicator and has stated he does not want a relationship. He is treating you like crap and that is NOT YOUR FAULT!
This is the very typical “Treat her like crap and she will come crawling back for more” type of scenario. This is a VERY REAL technique that men teach other men about how to get any girl they want. For example, if there is a group of girls and he is attracted to 1 in particular, they are taught to go up to the group of girls and talk to all the girls and flirt and connect with all of them EXCEPT the one they want to go out with. Making her feel ignored and rejected will activate her need to connect. He will make her feel “left out” and “unimportant” so as to make her fight for his attentions. And then when he FINALLY gives her the attention, she will feel “special” and then bam! She’s hooked! It’s a common technique because it works all the time!
I’m not saying that is what this guy is doing on purpose…maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. It doesn’t matter. I don’t care how much you have had fun with a guy, when he ghosts you like that 2-3 times, it’s time to walk away and find someone else who treats with you kindness and respect and cares about you. This is not about you catching his attention again. This is about you having some standards of how you are treated and if any guy doesn’t meet those standards, he doesn’t get to experience you! You are valuable and worth knowing!!! But something in you seems to not quite know that.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Gineth,
Welcome! We are glad you are here!
Can you provide a little more detail? If I understand correctly, he has been gone for 1 month and is wanting to go to counseling with you? He wants to work on the relationship and see if you guys can find the connection again? Is that accurate? Also, I’m not sure what your specific question is. How would you like us to help you?
Heidi
Hi Mary,
It sounds like you are coming to some great conclusions and waking up to a different level of truth about the kind of relationship you guys had.
There is a lot of blame going on between the both of you. It sounds like both of you have a lot of hurt and tend towards being verbally aggressive with each other.
Regardless if whether he is a narcissist or just severely wounded and fragile, the methods you both use to communicate when hurting, does not work and is not sustainable for any kind of deep intimate relationship.
I think this is a good time for you to really heal and start to deeply look at your own wounds, your relationship with alcohol and learning new ways to deal with your emotional triggers. When you go down this path, you will be able to attract a much more healthy experience that has the makings for something long term.
What do you think? Is there a Coach or Therapist you like working with, that can lead you down that path?
Heidi
Hi Valerie,
Well, you can test the waters by just saying something easy like what I posted above. “Hey…still having a hard time. I don’t really need to talk about it as there isn’t much to say at the moment, BUT…hearing your voice, laughing with you, even telling me about your problems and challenges, would really help. Just talking to you puts a smile on my face. Would love to connect soon.”
Keeping it light, letting him know what you need and that the need is him and then giving him precise directions of how to help you feel better…that’s the formula…so come up with a way to incorporate all of that…and then write it here and we can help you modify it, if need be.
Even something as simple as, “I miss you. Life kinda sucks right now, of course. But connecting with you makes it all so much easier. I hope you are doing okay. Would love to connect soon.”
Heidi
Hi Maria,
Of course you are lost. You are supposed to be! You know why??? Because he is lost! It’s not YOUR job to make him feel like a man….it’s HIS job. It has NOTHING to do with you not wanting him enough, or stimulating him mentally enough. He has a GIANT trash can labeled “I’m a man” and it’s empty. You keep adding to it and doing what you can, but reality is, it’s not enough. The trash can maybe gets filled an inch. All he ends up feeling is the emptiness and not that 1 inch you contributed. He is wanting you to do for him, that he is not willing to do for himself. He wants you to fill that trash can up for him and that just isn’t possible. That trash can is empty be HE has made it empty, not you and it’s HIS own internal fight that has to figure out how to create healing with himself and what it means to be a man. He is looking for outside sources to make him feel better and it just won’t work. You could have sex with him 5 times a day and tell him how amazing he is and stimulate him mentally all day long and he will STILL not feel like a man. And even if he did, he would be so dependent on you to make him feel that way that if you ever left or something happened, he would lose himself again.
Now…it’s not to say you can’t help. Whenever someone says they want certain things, I ALWAYS ask for examples and details. What does he think you need to do in order to stimulate him more mentally? What EXACTLY does he imagine you doing for him sexually that would make him feel more like a man? When you can get those kinds of details, it will help you quite a bit. That’s how you can support him best.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Sharon!!!
What an amazing response!! Now we are getting to the core of what is driving you! It doesn’t sound “awful” that you feel that. It sounds normal. A lot of people feel that way. The next level would be, where is that belief coming from? It’s a common low self esteem though to have, so it’s always really powerful to find it’s origins. When you can do that, you have the power to shift that negative belief at it’s core vs. constantly managing that belief through trying to change your behavior. Any thoughts about where this kind of thought would come from? Also, just curious….do you know that belief you have is 100% false and a lie?
As far as your “take charge” mentality, I get it. It sounds like a wonderful strength you have. The thing is, our strengths are always our greatest weaknesses. For example, I am a very good teacher in person AND I tend to teach too much in relationship instead of just letting the guy figure it out on his onw. I take control and solve the problems for them. Not healthy! So the same goes for you here…your drive is wonderful AND it’s hurting you when it comes to dating. My guess is, if you really work from your core and deal with the low self esteem, your drive to control the situation with a guy, will greatly lessen.
As far as being single, there is a difference between being single and being alone. I have been single many many times in my life, but I was still dating. Being alone means NO male attention at all. No flirting, no sex, no dates, no nothing. Just you. I have had many phases like that as well and holy smokes, does it reveal A LOT!!! I always recommend a good year long phase of that kind of work. The first time I went through it, I really realized how much men were contributing to my self esteem. It all got stripped away and I was just left with myself, have to create my worth from ground zero. I had a choice to either be miserable and feel bad about myself or start to learn REAL self love and build myself up, all on my own. Maybe you have done that….I don’t know, but that is what I am suggesting.
I find it really interesting that you want this deep, soulful connection with a man, yet you and the men you date are polyamorous. That, in and of itself, is a design where you and the other person have split energy. I understand there may be 1 main person, but still…all in all, there is still a part of each person that is being shared with others, therefore not fully and completely intimate with just one person. I have had these discussions with a lot of people who have lived that design and it always is interesting to me, the perspective they have. I’m curious of yours.
Loving this discussion!!!
heidi
Hi Sharon,
I would suggest to NOT invite him to anything. Again, LET HIM TAKE THE LEAD! You do have this habit of really investing a lot of yourself and being the initiator. Have you ever looked into that more deeply? What is causing you to take the initiative and investing so much, so quickly? What is driving that energy??? It would be really helpful for you to connect to that part of you and see what is really going on, on a deeper level.
Invite someone else to play. Get to know Tim first and let him make the plans. There is no rush here. Matt is out of the picture and that’s good. It didn’t match you and his attentions were obviously elsewhere anyways. I’m sorry he hurt you like that. That’s no fun at all!!!
Give yourself some time to heal. Have you ever thought about being single for awhile? Meaning, no dates, no male attention and just learning who you are without a man nearby?
Heidi
Hi Mary,
I understand your heart is breaking. It can take awhile for healing to occur. It might be a good idea to continue with a therapist. When you have someone to slowly guide you through the rough patches, it is sooooo helpful. And it takes time!!! I would recommend committing to a good year of really looking deep into your relationship, looking at the problems that existed in this past relationship and continuing to work on your healing.
I’m glad he responded to whatever you did. Give it some time. First, you need to understand that there is no way he will walk back into the same situation again. IF he ever decides to really connect with you again, he is going to need to know that it will be different. Have you worked on your drinking habits? Have you worked on changing HOW you communicate? It sounds like there was some verbal abuse happening over text messages. Have you worked on that aspect? Despite the amount of love you have for him, it was not a healthy relationship. So what are you doing inside of yourself (besides learning new techniques) to heal those parts of you that are verbally abusive when you get hurt? Does this make sense at what I’m getting at?
How did you get him to respond to you? Did you use the hero instinct approach?
Heidi
