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Hi Lorelle!
Oh my goodness! My heart is just beaming hearing all of this! I am sooooo so happy for you both! This is just spectacular! It sounds like things are progressing and that you both are on the same page.
Yes, sometimes men just need the space and time to figure out what they need and want. You did a great job by handling it all the way you did. Coming here on this forum and asking for support and ideas, taking care of yourself in the process and just letting him set the pace…all were things that eventually brought you to this place. You could have lost him had you handled it differently.
When is your divorce final? I would like to make the recommendation to just give yourself some time after the divorce. Maybe consider waiting 4 or 5 months after the divorce before you make that move. I have worked with soooo many people that have reactions to their divorce being final. They feel great, have moved on, have new partners, but signing those papers and making a divorce final is an energetic closure and represents something. Many people end up having some reaction to that and 100% of the time, they are completely surprised they are having a reaction. It has nothing to do with wanting to go back or anything of that nature….it’s more about having a response to a door closing and what that ending means. Some people even end up having reactions a few months after everything is final. That’s why I am suggesting a good amount to allow your system to process your divorce and create the space for that to happen. Then move in with him. Just a thought….
Thank you so much for the update! I had been wondering how everything went. This is just the best update ever!!!! I am so happy!!!
Heidi
HI Isotta!
This sounds like a really good phase for you! You are learning quite a bit and that is so important! I can see why you would be concerned about losing his interest being that it is a strong pattern for your life.
What are your thoughts about that? Has anyone ever given you feedback about it? I am wondering why you have never consciously flirted….have you felt uncomfortable with it in your past? I’m glad you are learning this skill as it is a VERY important part of relationship, even after 30 years together.
So help me understand exactly what you want with this guy. I understand you don’t want the typical relationship with him where you do things together a lot and meet the family etc. But you may want something deeper than just your Sundays. So what EXACTLY do you want with this guy? And out of curiosity, do you not want a relationship with anyone or are you just saying that about this guy? And even though you were very clear in the beginning about what you were interested, situations and people ALWAYS change. I definitely recommend to people n general to check in every once in awhile to make sure both parties are on the same page. Not that you need to do that at this point as I think it’s important for you to keep this light, keep learning and get really clear about what you want first.
By the way, did he respond to your Instagram flirting??? And just a word of caution here. Social media might not be the best place to flirt. I know for me, I keep my personal life VERY private. I wouldn’t want someone I am just getting to know, to flirt with me on social media as it causes other people to start questioning me and getting curious…and those are conversations I just don’t want to have until I feel it’s worth talking about.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Oh wow! My heart goes out to him.
This is at tough situation Rhea. Truth be told, NO ONE can ever know how they really feel about someone when they are in the middle of recovering from trauma. I have no doubt that your comfort and connection are helping him keep his head about water right now. When all the dust settles, it really could go either direction, no matter the techniques you use. That is the risk you are taking with him. It’s no different than a “rebound.” When someone exists a relationship and is in the middle of loss, then someone comes along and the connection and support is so strong, it feels amazing! Then after some time, the dust settles and you both find out what is really there.
So on your end, it’s important for you to realize what you are choosing. It is a higher risk with this guy considering what he is going through right now. Neither of you know how authentic and pure the feelings really are and that’s okay. Just keep things going slow and keep your heart protected. Give it some time and make sure he really earns the right to have that love from your heart.
In the meantime, it sounds like you are doing some wonderful things for him. You are giving him space, you are enjoying each other, you are keeping it light and easy, you are supporting what he needs and that is enough right now. Trying to use techniques to get him to stay connected to you while he is in the middle of some big grief, just isn’t going to work. He is sooooo filled with other stress and deep loss, that trying to get him to connect to seeing you as a romantic partner and not just some comfort….well he just won’t have access to that side of himself right now, because the other feelings are so dominant. He is giving you all that he has right now. What you are already doing is working and creating a good bond. Helping him feel supported, making him feel appreciated and needed and laughing with him and building that friendship is a wonderful approach!!!
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Snejana,
I can see why you are completely confused and feeling a lot of hurt. He is sending mixed messages and it sounds like you are the one who keeps the relationship moving forward and he just follows your lead. Is that accurate?
Has he shared any reasons as to why he feels unsure about being in a relationship with you? With the current status, does this mean you both are still open to dating other people?
What exactly do you want from him compared to what you have with him now?
Heidi
Hi Sophie,
I think you are on the right track here. If he is having business troubles, dealing with you will be VERY difficult for him. If you plan to go on your trip, you need to plan it in a way where you are just going to go and have some fun and not center it around him. If you center it around him, you will be disappointed. Can you look at the trip as just a vacation? If he happens to join, that’s great, but if you plan on exploring and seeing things you’ve never seen, you can still have some fun!
I agree that you should not respond to his last message. He was polite and nice, but not inviting you to connect further. Leave it at that. Then if you decide to go in January, you can message him in a few weeks. If his business is really going down the drain like you suspect, then he will hardly have anything emotional to give to you. It’s so difficult because you are not there. It might have turned out differently. I’m sure he already feels like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders, so to add an ex girlfriend in the mix may just be too much.
It just might be bad timing right now. So I would say a good approach is to keep giving him some breathing room to resolve what he needs to in his life. Still stay connected every once in awhile and maybe over time, he will slowly start to find his ground again and have more to offer you.
Heidi
Hi Sharon,
I’m so glad you are discovering yourself again and finding your inner power. I know how wonderful that feels!!! Keep on that path, as that seems to be where life is taking you right now and I always trust that.
One thing I learned very early on with my therapist, is to always question what I am feeling. So if I was attracted to a guy, question why. If I am getting bored with a guy, question why. By doing this, I got to know myself really really well. 100% of the time, I surprisingly discovered how much of my woundedness and unresolved issues were driving my feelings. When I dealt with those aspects, I would then discover what was really left and how I really felt for the guy. Now, 20 years later, I can instantly pick up when my attraction is not coming from a pure, high vibrational space and I instantly deal with it.
By the time I got to college, I had a SOLID pattern of liking the nice guys for about 2 weeks. I would start out intensely liking them and then somewhere around the 2 week mark, I would start to get bored and lose interest. The bad boy types however, kept my attention forever. I knew this pattern and knew what it was about, but just couldn’t shift how I was feeling. I did everything I could to stay away from the nice guys because I knew I would end up hurting their feelings. Then I met Edward. He was a guy in soccer class and we immediately hit it off. I also knew he was a nice guy so I worked VERY hard trying to keep my distance. The pull was so strong though! So I gave in, hoping that maybe this time would be different. Nope….just around the 2 week mark, I was so bored with how nice he was to me. I felt like I could walk all over him and had very little respect for him. My therapist said to me, “This is your chance now. If you want to break this pattern, stay in it and find out what’s really going on.” So I did. It was the hardest thing I have ever done! I cringed inside every time he kissed me or touched me. I forced myself to see him even though everything in me was incredibly resistant. All the while, I worked with my therapist about the feelings coming up. I had a VERY strong program going on for me that basically was saying “nice was boring” so we worked a lot on reprogramming so I believed that “nice was nourishing.” Very very long story short, there finally was a shift. One day, I walked into his house and he greeted me with his usual smile and happiness to see me and instead of me cringing and faking a smile, I actually felt butterflies and open. I actually was able to feel good that he was happy to see me. A few months later I still broke it off, because he just wasn’t my match but I didn’t break it off because I was bored. Ever since Edward, the “bad boy” types went out the door. I no longer had any interest in them, even to this very day. I shifted.
My point in telling you this, is that just because you are feeling something, does not mean it is actually true and coming from a healthy place. My feelings of boredom with the nice guys were FULL of all kinds of lies from past wounds. It was a symptom of my subconscious and unresolved feelings. Our symptoms are the treasure map to finding the gold (the real issue…the core belief that is full of lies that are driving our feelings).
You have symptoms of desiring polyamory because you get bored sexually, you tend to “over-connect” and give a lot in the beginning, when you were celibate you went into a deep depression, the guys you are attracted to just end up making you feel frustrated and disappointed and the list goes on…..these all are symptoms of what is driving you from the subconscious that you are seeking “other” or a man to make you feel good about who you are. Even your last statement of saying “Obviously my approach has yet to get me any good results. All I get is disappointment and frustration.” Everything you are doing is so you can get a guy to love you and fight for you and think you are the most spectacular woman he has ever met. Of course you can and should have that experience! But who are you without that experience? Who are you without a man? How would you feel about yourself if you had no men giving you attention? Going down the rabbit hole with these kinds of questions can lead you to why you are using men to fill a hole that inside of you AND then you learn how to fill that hole yourself. When you complete you, then the kind of romantic life you design and experience may look entirely different!
I am not saying you should go celibate and stop dating. It would be a very powerful path and way to get some very quick answers and information about what is really going on for you, but it is not a path for everyone. I am suggesting to look at those parts of you that use men to define your value and make you feel good about yourself. The therapist you currently have seems to be a good match and I’m sure that is already part of your discussion and journey.
Heidi
Hi Isotta,
If you are just looking to keep it light and fun, then there are no problems here. Friends with benefits can only last so long though. Usually, at some point, feelings develop on either side and more is wanted. Him never initiating would be a problem if you really liked the guy. If you start to fall for him and want to see him or if the Sunday meetups start to become less and your feelings are hurt, then you are heading into dangerous territory. You obviously are the lead person on this. As long as you feel okay about that, then it’s totally fine! There is nothing to be concerned about and nothing different to do. What you are doing right now is working.
Here is the thing though….you say you don’t want anything more, but your actions are showing otherwise. You are even here, on this forum, because you are trying to keep his attention, you are trying to keep this thing going and you are wanting to learn whatever you can to keep that happening. That sure is a lot of effort for someone who doesn’t want anything more.
Here is the thing….I’ve dated long enough and coached enough people to know this. There have been so many times where I won’t feel anything and I will not care, yet I am watching myself take actions towards a guy that say the opposite. There is a disconnect. My feelings and actions don’t line up. Pay attention to that!!! Whenever I recognize I am doing that, I immediately start to really look at what the heck I am doing. Which is more true….my actions or my feelings?
For you, because you are really enjoying your sunday sex / talk meetups….and you are already worried about becoming too boring and doing what you can to keep him interested, you may be more invested that you are willing to admit. Your actions and feelings don’t quite match up, so this is why I want to encourage you to look deeper at what you are doing.
As far as you being interesting and keeping his attention, do you like who you are? Do you find you interesting? Do you feel like you are a fun person to be around and talk to??
Heidi
Hi Bete,
Oh I’m so sorry! Are you surprised he said this? Did you see signs of him losing interest? How long were you guys together? How do you think your relationship was? Could you tell that he was attracted to you? Were you intimate frequently? Flirty? Did you have really good conversations??
I wish I had a magic wand to give you the perfect answer, but this is one of the toughest scenarios. If someone just doesn’t have feelings for you, there is nothing to do about that. It’s just not meant to be. But if someone does have feelings and attraction towards you and just didn’t like the relationship, that gives us something to work with.
Heidi
Hi Roxana
Man…your heart must sink watching your husband connecting with this other woman and to also push you away.
The first thing I want you to realize is that you are not powerless. YOU DO HAVE CHOICE! Where your power lies, is within you. It is not about trying to fix him or change him….that is where you are powerless, but you do have a choice and power as to whether or not you want to continue participating in this design.
I know you used to be in love and were a great couple. That doesn’t exist anymore and it’s important for you to let that idea go. He is doing everything to break this relationship and it’s causing you so much hurt and so much harm. This is not about you doing something different so he will come back to you. The problem here is, he won’t be honest, he won’t talk to you and he pushes you away all the time. This is not a man who is interested in changing. This is a man who is pushing you towards a divorce. He may say he wants a divorce, but my suspicion is, he wants YOU to ask for it. He is not showing you he is the kind of guy who cares about your feelings nor is interested in repairing anything. There is nothing you can do about that.
You want to wait until the flame dies down??? Then what? You think he will turn his attentions back to you? That is possible, but then what are you going to do when he finds someone else to catch his attention? Cheating is not the issue here. The issue is that he is not a happy guy and is looking for very unhealthy ways to make himself feel better. He is not willing to face himself, how he is REALLY feeling and willing to work with you on anything. That is the fundamental issue here. Of course, you have your own challenges as well, but the difference between you and him, is you are willing to listen, talk and work on things and he isn’t. So…that means, even if the flame goes away for this other woman, it doesn’t change that he is a guy who runs from his problems instead of facing them. So reality is, you will probably end up right back here, where he will have found another person to make him feel better.
I understand you want a “family” for your baby. That’s just not in the cards with this guy. He is just not interested in facing this and being honest. These are the facts.
So if you are to look at the facts that he is not going to stop this affair, he is going to keep lying, he is not going to be intimate with you, he is going to continue to be disconnected. This is the truth about your situation at the moment. Now you have to decide if you want to keep accepting to be treated this way, you can decide you deserve more and want more and you ask for a divorce, you can maybe have a serious conversation where you just talk and he just listens. You can say something like, “Look, I know you are having an affair. I know you are lying. I know you are not interested in me anymore. I keep trying over and over to be a better wife for you, but it just seems nothing is working and I am at a loss. So I am done trying to figure out what you want. I am at a place now where I am ready to let go if you are not willing to work on this. If you are willing to see a therapist with me, I will go and we can see where it leads us. If you are not willing to work on this, then I need to hear it from you now. It’s a simple yes or no.”
How does this make you feel?
Heidi
Hi Ana,
I understand your confusion. Getting to know someone in a romantic capacity is so difficult! Then add on top of that, trying to do it long distance.
Let me clear something up for you. Since you do not have much experience with men, I will tell you that you CANNOT just erase everything and start all over. It doesn’t work that way. The way that he communicates and the way that he functions when his feelings are hurt, is who he is. You can erase this current topic, but another topic will show up and both of your behaviors will be the same. Not once, in all the communication you have shared from him, has he taken responsibility for his own choices. 100% of the time, he is blaming you. He even blames you for his choice to disconnect and not talk. I will warn you right now, you are in for a loooooong dramatic road with this guy. He sounds like he has tendencies towards narcissism. So…that means that you will ALWAYS be wrong, even if he makes bad choices. He will tell you that it’s your fault because of how you treated him or made him feel. He does not have the ability to take responsibility for himself. You will end up feeling very alone in a relationship with him because he will not care about your experience. He will only care about his experience. He will blame, you will defend yourself and then round and round you guys keep going and more and more you will notice how anonymous you are in his life.
So….I would like to encourage you to really think about this. Just because you are good together when things are good, does not mean it is a good relationship. A healthy relationship exists across ALL shades of life. The good, the bad, the ugly, the challenges. You guys do not have this going for you. How he copes with things, he will never be good at it unless he faces himself and how he treats people when things get challenging. You also tend to disconnect which is something you too need to work on. Bottom line is though…you can work on it all you want, but he won’t. So you are still dealing with the same stuff.
In a healthy relationship, your guy will ask you questions about how you are feeling. He will say things like, “It really sucks when you disconnect and go silent on me. It hurt when you said….I got angry when you did…..” and when you share your thoughts and feelings, he will listen and want to know about you and your experience. You guys will work TOGETHER to solve your problems and not blame each other for how things go down. That is healthy communication. The direction you guys are heading in, is down the drain. This type of communication DOES NOT keep a relationship together…it just causes harm.
I know though, that no matter what I say, your heart feels different because you are connected to him and it is still your choice. If you still feel you want to give this another go, my suggestion is to just keep talking. You guys are still connecting daily, so that means there is still something happening. Give it some time to re-build the friendship. Then maybe you can add a little flirting and see how he responds. But wait for a bit. Don’t talk about getting back together anymore. Give him the space, but keep connecting and being responsive. Also, playing a little hard to get. Maybe sometimes, don’t answer so quickly. Wait a day to respond. Go out and continue your life. Keep dating, keep having fun and make sure you let him know that’s what you are doing.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Martene!
You are definitely heading down a wonderful path. No matter how this ends up, you are learning about how to be a better partner. I’m glad you are working on letting go of the idea of trying to be “perfect” so you don’t make the situation worse. It’s a pointless effort! You being you is the MOST IMPORTANT aspect and anyone who is going to match you, will LOVE all aspect of you, even in your moments of challenge and mistakes.
As far as your work situation, I will validate your concern. Work is a tricky place, especially since you both are literally sitting in the same office every single day. There are not many couples who can handle something like that. It definitely can be quite a strain on a relationship….especially if you are arguing. You are around each other all day, every day, so there really is no space that is your own. Work, many times, is a good place to feel separate than your partner…to have your own friends, your own environment and a life that exists separate than him. So….yes, it’s a concern. If anything goes wrong, for whatever reason, you or him are looking at the possibility of either losing your jobs or needing to go somewhere else. So, there is a higher risk here you both are taking by getting involved.
As far as your letter, that really is up to you. If you preface it by saying something like, “I came across this book that has really helped me. It exposed some areas where I feel I wasn’t being very effective in our relationship, or other relationships I’ve had for that matter. Anyways, I love learning about myself and how I can be better. I wanted to share with you a few things I have learned…..then share your thoughts. Then you can end with something like…..This is not about us getting back together. Maybe at some point we can give it a go again, or maybe not. I trust whatever shows up. I just wanted to share what I learned and say the things I wish I had said back then…that’s all.”
I also want to suggest holding off on the letter for a bit. Give it another few weeks while you guys are still trying to figure out how to be friends, offering compliments here and there, going out with friends again….you guys are still in a bit of an awkward phase….I’m thinking it might be best just to let that unfold first and THEN….you can circle around back to the letter and see how you feel about it.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Peggy!
Holy smokes a lot has happened!
D is certainly a fragile guy! He is so terrified of failure. There is an aspect here where as good as he is at communication, there is a lot of fear driving it. Where is his compassion? Where is his patience and understanding for growth? Where is his tolerance and humility for just being human? With how he reacted, he is using this excuse of “communication” as one BIG, GIANT, THICK WALL!!! If anyone messes up, just a little, he is outta there. He has no tolerance for another person’s “mistakes” because he is so incredibly judgmental of himself first and foremost. As much as he teaches communication, he is missing heart. He is missing compassion. Instead of compassion and understanding, it’s replaced by fear. He doesn’t trust himself, therefore he will never trust you. Our greatest strengths are our greatest weaknesses right??? I am INCREDIBLE at communication, but there are just some times it doesn’t work and it’s important to just go with the flow, brush yourself off then give it another go. He doesn’t have that ability…which means he is not very resilient. I’m so glad this ended!! You are much stronger in a lot of ways than he is!
Thank you for sharing your path and process. You are handling everything so well as you process all of this! I’m so glad you have your son as a role model! That’s amazing! I use my friends as role models! They show us what it feels like to be in relationship with ease and grace and fun and laughter and arguments AND feel loved through all of it! Romantic relationships can be like that! You need to feel safe and respect who you are with. You feel that with your son, which is so wonderful!!!
Well done!Keep working it!!! You rock!
Heidi
Oh Roxana! I am so sorry! This is devastating!
Do you know how long he has been having this affair? Is it still going on currently? How did you find out?
I think the best way to work on this is to be honest. When both people are honest, it allows for everything to be dealt with. How can you keep trying to be nice and not do anything that bothers him if you don’t even understand what is happening for him. Your relationship is broken and neither of you are talking about it and being honest. How can anything be fixed this way?
Does he have a history of cheating? Do you have any idea why he would cheat? Did he seem happy and enjoying your relationship together? There is obviously something missing inside of him and he is looking elsewhere to fix it and that will never work. Do you have any idea what would be missing in his life?
Heidi
Hi Tracy,
I’m so sorry! I know how hard it is to let go of a connection like that. I know he felt good for you and the idea of letting him go completely is so so difficult.
Here is the truth. He is not a good communicator and as you said, you don’t view that he handles stress very well. It took you finally saying something for him to admit that the spark was gone, yet he carried on with you and was not honest with you…I wonder how long he was feeling this way and I also how long he would have carried on like that?
You may still have a spark, but what makes you think he feels a spark? Do you feel like you can trust this guy to be honest with you? If he doesn’t communicate very well, that means he is not very emotionally available. It sounds like he has a whole internal world of thoughts and feelings that you don’t know about. Is this how you want to exist in a relationship?
Heidi
