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Hi Marguerite,
I understand your sense of desperation at your age when you are seeing other people transitioning. You are in the later phase of life and it makes you think about what you can experience while you are still here.
If I said to you, you have a good 30 years ahead of you, do you feel you would still have that “desperate” type of energy?
The thing is, the moment we head into fear, it causes us to make decisions from that place of fear, which changes everything. It changes what we attract into our lives and it changes how we experience people and situations. Your fear of never finding love again has made you want to hold onto this “almost exactly ideal” man who is playing the victim. This guys doesn’t have a spine. As much as he may have met that checklist and made you feel wonderful and accepted with all of your limitations, he also is running away and not being in his integrity. You want to fight for a guy who although treated you really, really well in one sense, but then chickens out? You really want a guy like that? He is far from having an ability to offer that kind of love you are craving.
No matter what phase we are in life, it is our responsibility to love ourselves and be responsible for our own happiness. What if you faced this fear of yours and shifted your energy to the thinking like, “I love my life, I love living and I am going to spend every minute having fun, having the adventures that I can and learning as much as I can. If a man happens to join me on that journey, then great! If not, I will still be on path to finding as much fun and pleasure and joy as I possibly can.”
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Diana,
I am so sorry all those men have said those things. They are very limited and obviously have VERY POOR emotional intelligence and little to no understanding about women in general.
First, IT IS possible to be lovable when you are alone. I have been single for 10 years now and I love myself, I have a wonderful life that is so full and packed with my dreams, fun with friends, dating every once in awhile and all the adventures I get to create. I don’t feel like I am missing anything by not having a man. A man coming into my life would add to my happiness for sure, but I am also very happy without a man. That is ALWAYS my goal. I do not want to depend on anyone for my own happiness. The truth is, when you rely on someone else to make you happy, you will never be happy because that other person is going to hurt you, let you down, disappoint you etc. It’s inevitable just because we are humans and make all kinds of mistakes. So when you define your value and whether or not you are loveable according to what another person says, you end up giving ALL of your power away. If a guy likes you, you are loveable, if he quits you, you are not loveable. How come you give those guys so much power??? You are letting THEM tell you what you are worth! Why do they get to decide that? They don’t know you. This last guy was only 2 dates! He hardly knew you! Why are you giving a guy who doesn’t know you, so much power over how you think about yourself? This is what Kanya was trying to get you to answer. You learned it BEFORE all of these guys. Someone taught you at a young age that what you do and say and how other people view you is all that matters and what other people say is the truth. Who taught you this??? It’s not okay! What about YOUR truth? What about what YOU think and feel???
Let’s just turn this around for a second. You didn’t like the guy’s music because it made you felt it was sad. Does that make you right and him wrong? He likes his music! So should he be saying, “You are right, my music is sad and I should never listen to it!” No! If he likes his music then that is what is right for him. He should change his opinion just because you say so. He shouldn’t be different just you say so. Neither of you is right or wrong about the music…it’s just different. And that’s what I say to the men who have “quit” me in the past.
When someone quits you, what IS true is saying, “I understand. We are just different. You like certain things and I like certain things and they don’t match.” That guy that quit you because he felt you had a body that looked like a boy or the guy who didn’t like your belly….do you really want to be with a guy like that??? No way! There would be so many problems in the relationship.
It seems like all you care about is to be with a man and it doesn’t matter who he is or what he is. As long as you with a man, you feel everything is okay. The problem with that, is that you are just using a man to feel good about yourself. You don’t REALLY like them do you? Even this last guy, you didn’t like his apartment, you didn’t like his music, yet you push those things aside quickly and decide you like him. What about what you like??? Why not go on dates like you are interviewing them for a job. You are the job they are trying to get. You have to screen the guys. You have to care about how they make you feel and how you feel around them. You have to pay attention to the good things and the not so good things BEFORE they get to be hired as your boyfriend.
I’ve said a lot here, so I’m going to stop. Let me know your thoughts about all of this!
Heidi
Hi Renee!
Thank you so much for the updates!!! I am honored to get to be a part of your process!
I just want to validate you all over the place.
First, I think it’s wonderful that he is opening up and sharing with you, even if they are difficult feelings and discussions about setting boundaries. I just want to add a little piece in there about you communicating to him to NOT worry about your feelings as that’s your job. That is 100% true!!! There are 2 things to remember here that also need to be added to that truth:
1. Remember you are talking to a man. At the very core center of most men, is a desire to put that big, beautiful smile on his woman’s face. It’s the basic “hero” principle. So when he is in a situation where he wants to say no, but instead says yes, the “hero” wins out every time for him. It’s a strong force! Then add on top of that, all his woundedness and his deep internal pain and depression. To disappoint his woman or risk a reaction from you, would make him want to say “yes” just because he would rather keep the peace, he would rather see you happy vs. unhappy and he would rather stay connected than to have any discordant energy. So….working from that information means that when you say, “I can take care of my own feelings. That’s my job, not yours” it may not really sink in. I don’t know if you did this or not, but just for future purpose……a more effective response might have been, “Oooooh! Thank you for telling me. Tell me more about that. Are you afraid of me being disappointed? Are you afraid of getting into an argument?……I understand why you would rather say yes than no. I’d like to offer another way to think about it that might relieve some pressure for you. Yes, when you say no to things, I might get upset or have a reaction. I am human and I am just not always going to react in ways that are the best. AND…with that being said, anytime I do have a reaction, I have 100% faith in myself that I will figure out my feelings and work through it. I have a therapist, I have a coach, I have friends, I have an incredible skillset….so that when any challenge shows up in my life, I have help to deal with it. That’s what life is about right??? It’s just going to be messy. You and I are going to be messy sometimes, but no matter what you decide to do, I will be okay. That is the commitment I have to myself. NO ONE has THAT much power over me to steal away my joy or my ability to be resilient and enjoy my life. You don’t have that much power in my life. That power stays within me. You absolutely have the power to make me cry and laugh and love and be angry….but…in the end, my joy lies within my hands with how I treat myself when I am hurt or disappointed. Does this help you understand a little more about how I look at things? I know this is something you are working on, so maybe seeing it from my viewpoint can help you know more about me.”
I just wrote a lot there, but I have no doubt you get the gist of what I am saying. I know this is through text, so I am sure you let a lot of detail out, but here are the 4 steps I always coach people through when someone shares their problem / challenge:
1. JUST listen / validate
2. Get curious and ask more questions about their thoughts and feelings
3. Validate AGAIN
4. THEN problem solve.So many times, people head straight into problem solving (myself included). I have a tendency to start to immediately put my coaching hat on and guiding people. Yes, sometimes that may be necessary, but MANY times, just doing steps 1-3, the person will already start to feel better. So the process I took you through above is how these steps can work.
Before I go on and write 5 more pages in response, I”m gonna stop and wait to hear back to see if this was helpful for you.
Bottom line though, I love all that is happening. You guys are talking, there is honesty, you both are working on your challenges and your families are still relying on each other in a healthy way. I’m with you….I am liking where this is heading right now!!!
Heidi
Hi Emilie,
You have been lost since the very beginning as he has sent many mixed messages your way all along. The thing is, it’s just a guessing game at this point. Trying to figure out what he means, how to say things, when to say things is a lot of work. It seems you are investing a lot of energy into something without much in return.
Here is my question to you that I would like you to live with for a bit before you answer. Do you still really like him? You liked who he was, but now you are seeing and experiencing a new side to him….a side to him that defines his manhood by how muscular his legs look, a side to him that takes his time getting back to you, a side to him that is sending a lot of mixed messages. So considering ALL that you know about him, do you feel he is the kind of guy gets to touch your heart???
Or….maybe you are still connecting in with him because the very common “You want what you can’t have” concept has gotten a hold of you?
I’d love to know your thoughts!
Heidi
Hi Christina
I’ll respond here on this thread, but it would be helpful if you started a thread all your own, so we can keep better track of you!
First, welcome and we are glad you are here and sharing your challenge. Although your fears are quite common and normal for those who have experience infidelity, they are difficult fears to face.
Whenever fear comes into the picture, it changes the energy in the relationship. You are fearful, therefore you are going to want to control the situation as much as possible….and that is where you are going to run into trouble. When the need for control increases, the other person can start to feel agitated, smothered and may even start to respond by sabotaging the relationship somehow. So the first thing to do, is to face your fear. Much easier said than done.
I’m going to share a personal story with you. A boyfriend from my past had a history of cheating on every girl he was with. When him and I started dating, I personally was just having fun and not taking him very seriously. Then we slowly grew into something more. In the beginning I could tell he was bracing for a fight when he would say he was going out dancing or to the bars with his guy friends. I always responded, okay….have fun! He one day asked me why I wasn’t “forbidding” him to go and I said, “You are a grown man. I am not your mother. You get to decide the kind of man you want to be at any given moment and that is YOUR path, not mine to tell you how to be. So you just go be you and I’ll be me. If you cheat, then I ask that you always tell me and we can decide together the next steps. It will hurt, but I am strong enough and resilient enough to know I will be okay and I will ALWAYS find my joy and happiness in my life, whether you are in it or not.” He told me months later how that conversation with me changed him. Never once, during the entire time we were together, did he ever feel tempted to cheat. He said that me putting the responsibility back in HIS hands vs. me trying to control him, made him really think about the kind of man he wanted to be in his life. Funny enough, every single time he went out, he always came home to my bed. He swears to this day he never once cheated.
I’m not saying this is the fix. There are concepts here I want to invite you to start to connect with:
1. You are worth loving, worth fighting for, worth knowing just because you are who you are….not because of anything that you do or say to “keep” his attention. Yes, there are things you can do to help with that, but bottom line, even without those “techniques” you should be captivating your guy’s attention just by being the normal you. If that isn’t happening, then there is something missing in the foundation.
I was able to say those things to my boyfriend back then because I had a confidence in my value. I know I am worth the experience and if he wants to ruin it by cheating on me, then he gets to do that, but it doesn’t change MY value. I am valuable, no matter what kind of person he decides to be. Your real fear is more about how you feel about YOURSELF and your own value vs. being afraid he will cheat on you again.
The confidence and my groundedness that my ex felt from me back then, was something that attracted him to me even more. Have you ever gone through the “Respect Principle” in your library from this Be Irresistible material?Do you understand what caused his eyes to wander? Did you guys talk about it at all? The fear you are still carrying around needs to be dealt with. You haven’t completely forgiven him, nor yourself. You don’t have trust in yourself. Trust, first and foremost is about trusting YOURSELF that no matter what happens, no matter what someone else decides to do, you KNOW you will be okay. When you trust in yourself that much, you can enter into relationship and love, which is a big risk in the first place….and have some peace and ease.
How does all of this make you feel?
Heidi
Have you gone through the “Relationship Rewrite Method” yet? There are a lot of wonderful ideas in that book!!! Also, John Gottman’s 7 Principles of Marriage is spectacular! Maybe you guys can start going through a book like that. When he is away, he can read it and digest it on his own and then when you guys come back together, you can discuss it. Do you feel this is a possibility?
There are also intensive weekend workshops where couples really dive deep and work through their challenges. Maybe a weekend away with support and guidance can give you guys a good kickstart.Hi Nicole,
Thank you for more details. There are some dynamics here that really make this very challenging, as there are a lot of layers to work through. The distance and that he is watching porn everyday are 2 big stoppers. Every time he goes away, it seems he becomes verbally abusive. It makes me wonder what is going on for him while he is away. He may still be watching porn, just using another guy’s computer. I am wondering if he is drinking more or maybe even surrounded by cynical guys who encourage him to behave in certain ways. It just seems strange that when he is at home, he treats you better and then every time he is away, he changes….so that just leads me to believe that he behaves in a way that aligns with the environment he is in. Thoughts about that?
I’m glad to hear you are doing your own counseling. Is it working for you? Do you feel like you are letting go of your anger more? Are you working towards forgiveness of him and yourself as well? Are you feeling changes inside your heart?
I’m sorry he is not following through on any of the agreements you make in counseling. That can be beyond frustrating!!! Have you talked with him about it? Would he agree or disagree with you?
Here is the thing….you can change all you want, but your marriage will never last until he decides to change. It sounds like he has a lot of internal work to do and he is not really interested in taking that path. So that leaves you with a choice. You can accept him for exactly who he is, or you can decide it’s not healthy for you and create a new path of growth and healing for yourself. You can only do so much yourself. He needs to meet you and join you on that growth path if things are going to work out. I’m not sensing from what you are saying, that he has any interest at all in following through on that agreement. Does he participate in counseling or does he resist it?
Heidi
Hi Tanya,
Thank you for being here and sharing your very challenging situation. I understand your need to do everything you possibly can, to try and repair what has happened. I just have a few questions and a few thoughts to start out. There are many dynamics involved here.
Here are my questions:
1. What EXACTLY did you guys decide to do to improve communication? Did you start practicing very specific things you learned form a book or program? Or did you guys just say you will talk more?
2. Did he every physically cheat or was it only texting and communicating with other women?
3. Did you guys talk about that a lot? Why it happened? How it happened? What needed to change in the relationship in order to help it heal?
4. what exactly do you want from him? If he comes back to you, everything is going to be the same. You both will fall back into the same patterns and end up right back where you are at right now. I know that is what neither of you want, so what are you wanting EXACTLY? You can change and heal and work on yourself all you want, but if he doesn’t join you in that process, your relationship will still be broken, as you are not the only problem here. Plenty of what he does has contributed to the situation you guys are in right now. So what’s the plan?The first thing I would like to invite you to think about, is that you are not powerless here. You are wondering all kinds of things about how you guys are going to function while he is taking his “space.” Why not sit down and have this conversation with him? Decide the boundaries and what feels okay for both of you and decide to create an ending as well. Part of your anxiety about all of this, is there are a lot of unknowns. Your opinion and your experience matters here just as much as his. So having a conversation where you BOTH design how you live together is important. Is he someone willing to see a couple’s expert with you? It sounds like you both have a lot of things to workout and neither of you really knows how to navigate the really tough waters of conflict and communication and all the feelings that come along with it. Is this a possibility to get some extra help from an expert?
Heidi
Hi Dana!
Okay…I first have to say that I totally busted up out loud when I read your response about the chipping in humans. That was good one!!! hahaha!
Okay, so now down to the nitty gritty. First and foremost, let’s address this thought that you have the HE is messing with your head. He is just being himself and doing what he knows how to do. Your response is all you really have control over in this situation. You are LETTING him mess with your head. It’s like you have given all of your power to HIM to decide whether or not this relationship is going to work, therefore leaving you to feel powerless and at his mercy (so to speak). What if you changed your mindset. He has to EARN the right to get you back. He has to PROVE to you that he is worth your time, your heart, your energy, your attention. Otherwise, you will move on.
With this kind of mindset, you are not sitting around waiting for him to reach out. You will respond if he decides to connect, but other than that, you are moving on with your life and he wants you back, he needs to work at it. You are keeping the power inside yourself instead of waiting for him to decide. YOU DECIDE!!! You know what you want, you know what needs to happen if you are to get back together with him, you know what needs to change and you are solid about that.
There is a lot more to say, but I am curious about how you feel about what I am saying. It’s a difference in energy. Just mull it around a bit.
And lastly, I wanted to validate what Kanya said. He can “get into your head” because you are being triggered by the abandonment. Yes, you love him and miss him, but there is also some woundedness that is being activated that adds to the intensity and is adding to the level of difficulty that you are experiencing. So in a way, it’s a wonderful gift that he is driving you nuts and that you are having such a hard time. It exposes areas where you are disconnecting from yourself and giving your power away. These areas are SOOOOO important to discover so you can begin to do some healing. This is still a really good time to figure out how to find your center and stay grounded in yourself, whether he reaches out to you or not. Does this make sense???
Heidi
Hi Marieta,
What if you created a different way to celebrate other than going out? Yes….I think it would be a difficult thing for him, at the moment, for you to buy dinner for your own celebration. BUT….what if you said to him, “Hey….next week is a work anniversary and I feel like I want to celebrate that moment…and I can’t think of anyone else I would want to celebrate with, than you. So, I have a plan. Would you be willing to just go with the flow and join me?” And you can even make it a fun surprise for him. What if you packed a picnic. You can just make some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, bring a bottle of sparkling cider, have some music (maybe you guys can dance), bring a candle to honor your celebration and maybe even go for a long walk together. You can also just do a little ceremony for your celebration. You can maybe write a list of all the things you are grateful for that your job has provided for you. You can also write down how you want to be better at your job and ways you are going to do that and maybe even talk about your dreams about where you are going with your career. You can really create a wonderful time together and it won’t make him feel bad about not having money. He will just have some fun with you and good conversation. Moments like those are worth so much more than going out to dinner somewhere.
Is this something you feel you can create somehow with him?
Heidi
hahaha! You crack me up! What a delightful spirit you have!
First of all, well done for going to the gym when you didn’t want to. I also am a personal trainer, so I get it!!! Those are some of the hardest moments, but you did it!! And look at the BIG reward you got from it! You are doing such a great job Dana and keeping yourself moving, even though you don’t want to. You are building your character, you are building your resiliency, you are building your internal strength.
All he was doing was missing you. My guess is, he was connecting with those pictures of you and smiling and laughing and remembering. Obviously he was having good thoughts, or he would not have texted you. So….THIS IS A GOOD SIGN!!!! Your responses were so wonderful too! You were light, funny and connective and still gave him some space. You didn’t respond right away which was brilliant. Making him wait a bit a good thing for him to feel from you.
Now what? You still do nothing. He needs to be the one to reach out again. You can, of course, send him the link to the chipping thing…that’s okay to do. Again, you can say something like, “I thought of you when I came across this link and thought you might be interested….hope this helps :)”
Little pieces of contact like that, that have purpose is okay every once in awhile, but no texting him the way he texted you. Leave that up to him for right now. He needs to be the one reaching out “just because.” Just for now.
How does this approach make you feel?
heidi
Hi Tamika,
I would also suggest to look at John Gottman’s material. He is one of my very favorite people when it comes to couples counseling, guidance and programs. He has some of the most expansive and thorough research about love and marriages and couples and children / family dynamics. His stuff is soooooo wonderful and spot on!
Here is 1 piece of advice he gives couples: Small things often. Meaning, do small things often to let your partner know you are thinking about them, love them, care about them, helping them….leave a note in his wallet, make his lunch, offer a foot rub, get his car cleaned…..there are a gazillion things you can do to start putting some “money” in that relationship bank. When things get difficult, you will have a big “savings” as a foundation. Make sense?
So what kinds of small things can you start doing for him?
Heidi
Hi Gwen,
Thanks for being here and sharing your story! I understand your confusion and how hard that is. You have an extremely complicated situation.
First, you both are starting a relationship based on lies and breaking integrity. It’s not the best way to start anything. Cheating and then continuing to lie about it, eats away at the soul very slowly. The guilt, the embarrassment, harboring a secret every single day…is A LOT to carry around.
Second, I would stay away from him simply for the fact that you are a rebound and he is for you as well. Neither of you have had any time alone to process the loss of your current relationships. It doesn’t matter that there are problems on both ends….there is healing that needs to happen while alone that is so important. It allows a person to clear all the gunk that came with the relationship, re-design their life as it’s a BIG change and figure out who the heck they are as s single person again. To jump from one relationship to the next is not a healthy thing to do. All he knows about himself is with another woman. And you want to be next in line?
I understand that you have and feel a strong connection with him and it feels sooooo wonderful. I get that on so many levels. The thing is, it is REALLY bad timing and you are picking a guy who is not emotionally available for you. You are not available for him either. You haven’t even broken up with your boyfriend yet. So regardless of how you feel about him and how good you guys are together, loose ends need to be tied off first. If you keep pursuing him, you are asking for a serious rollercoaster ride. If that’s what you want in your life, then you get to choose that of course. I’ve knowingly chosen things like that before and I sure paid the price for it as well.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Emilie,
I’m wondering if he just got scared and it’s his way of trying to “slow down” the process of connection by just ignoring, instead of just being honest.
You can always say something like, “I don’t know what happened that has caused you to start ignoring me. I know I was being flirty with you and maybe that made you put the breaks on and your ignoring me is your way of telling me to not contact you anymore…I don’t know. Regardless, it’s not something I will participate in. I do like to be honest and create closure, so I’m letting you know I will no longer be contacting you. I’m sad to let our fun friendship go, but no hard feelings. I wish you all the best with your next surgery and your recovery! I’ll probably see you around sometimes :)”
Maybe send something to that effect in a week or so. I always like to create closure by just letting them know I am closing the door energetically. It makes a huge difference, especially for you. It allows you to move on much easier. His lack of response just tells you that he is someone who would rather ghost and ignore than to be honest about whatever it is that he is feeling. It’s not respectful nor honoring of the friendship you did have and you don’t deserve to be treated that way. This is good information you need to know about him. If he does it with something this small, then I can’t even imagine what he would be like when dealing with something much more serious.
Make sense? Do you agree?
heidi
Hi Nicole,
Wow…this is a pretty difficult situation. I am so sorry you are having to go through this!
I’m happy to hear you are at least doing couples counseling. Are you seeing a therapist on your own even while he is away at work? Do you feel couples therapy is working for you guys? Are you seeing some small changes? Do you feel he is working on whatever it is that you agree to during your sessions with the therapist?
When he is texting you being an asshole while he is away, how do you respond, other than continuing to contact him more? Is he still watching porn? Do you know if it’s ever gone further than that? How long is he usually home for before he returns overseas?
Heidi
