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Hi Lorie,
Welcome! We are glad you are here and sharing your challenge with us.
I’m just a little confused, so I have a few questions:
1. Are you guys still talking regularly? Who initiates contact?
2. Were you both living together in the trailer and then he moved out to his own space? And that trailer is on his mom’s property?? Am I understanding correctly?
3. Why does he feel you have anger issues? What are you doing that would cause him to think that about you?
4. If he is watching porn all day, every day, he most likely has some sort of sex addiction that was probably there way before you came along. Do you have any history on him about this? Or is the porn thing something new?
5. If you get him back, then what? Reality is, he will still be watching porn and you guys will still have all the same challenges. I imagine neither of you wants to get back together and just have all the same problems again. So what kinds of things can you do to work on being a better partner for him? Do you know what he really wants and needs from you, so you can work on those areas?Heidi
Hi Debbie,
The very first question I would like to ask, is do you think it would be okay for your father if you started to open the door to this man. It is his friend (I’m not sure of his age compared to your father) and something you would want to first consider, if you haven’t already.
Second, can you explain to me what it means for you to just have companionship? Tell me about what that kind of relationship would look like for you.
How old are you? Tell me why a serious relationship does not interest you.
Heidi
Hi Dana!
A date night tonight with yourself and a glass of wine sounds quite wonderful. You still just keep doing what you are doing. Keep responding and being funny, open and connective, but HE NEEDS TO ASK you….do not make it easy for him by letting him know you will be in the area. Remember, he needs to feel like he really wants to see you and you need to feel that from him as well….you both will know that when he finally asks to see you…and he will. Just give him a little more time. Things are improving so let them keep improving and keep allowing him to lead you. This is so important!!!
As far as what to say and when and how…that’s why I asked…lol. If you are not clear about what you need from him, then it’s like landing a giant airplane with runway lights. DISASTER!!!!
So getting clear this evening about what you need, want and the specifics of all of that is crucial. For example, you can’t just say….I want more affection. You need to clearly spell it out for the guy. I would like more affection and that means for me that you hold my hand in public or kiss me when I walk through the door or cuddle with me for 10 minutes before we get out of bed. Does this make sense??
Heidi
Hi Marguerite,
First, I want to validate it’s a GREAT decision to not involve his daughter in law. This is between you and him and the other women. You 3 are the only people that need to know and work with what is happening here. It absolutely could backfire if you bring someone else into the picture, so good choice!
Second, I am so glad you got out of that last marriage! Good for you, for fighting for yourself and fighting for something more in your life! It’s so scary, especially at your age, to end a long term relationship and start brand new. That takes a lot of courage!
Please know that it’s not that we don’t know or don’t want to share “techniques” with you to help you get him back. Most of the time, the initial discussion is about understanding ALL the dynamics that influence what has happened and guide people towards connecting to the truth about a situation. The truth about your situation is that you are in a lot of fear, your ex has chosen to stay with the other woman and he is also choosing not to talk to you. It also sounds like he has a pattern of going through a lot of women. You are correct in that it’s not his children’s business, as he gets to live his life any way that he wants to. You were smart to stay away from that dynamic….however, it would also be a smart thing to know that pattern exists for him. If he does date a lot, he may not want something serious, he may not have that capability, he may not even have the emotional intelligence to understand what he is doing and why. So if you think about it, if he has a strong pattern of dating a lot of different women (at his age – which is not very typical), do you really think that is going to change if you get him back? You already had him once and he got distracted. What makes you think that won’t happen again??
Which leads me to this question….if you get him back, then what??? Does that mean you completely forget his choice and how he has treated you? Do you believe if you just get him back, everything will be okay again and you can return back to how you guys used to be?
Both Kanya and I are well over 30 and have had a lot of experience with dating and relationships. We understand the connection you feel, the heartache you feel and the strong desire to make something work that is broken. Both of us have personally experienced that as well, so we are here to help in whatever way you are willing to receive.
At this very moment, with him not talking to you and being with another woman who seems to really cause a lot of problems if he talks to you, it makes it difficult to use the advice from this program since you have some extenuating circumstances. You could try using the hero instinct with him and see what happens. Since he does have a history of taking really good care of you and enjoying it, you could probably activate his need to help you pretty easily. It’s just a matter of him receiving the message before she finds out and finding a way to hide it from her.
What were you thinking to ask him for help with? Do you guys text normally or talk over the phone?
Heidi
Hi Dana!
Yes yes yes!!! That is the a wonderful attitude to have!!! Every single one of us should have that attitude anytime a new friend or potential love interest is coming into our lives. Our hearts are valuable. Those that deeply connect to that, know to protect it and to be cautious who to let it. A person needs to earn the right of the love we offer. That takes a lot time and experience with many conversations and experiencing each other through the challenges that show up.
It sounds like he is coming around. He obviously is missing you, but not ready to jump back in. He is split, so one part of him is most likely scared to get back together and another part is having a hard time going through his life without you….hence the texting.
Make sure that when you guys get to that spot of discussing a possible re-connection, that you are VERY CLEAR about what you need from the relationship and him, in order to move forward.
You can say something like, “I miss you every single second of every single day since we’ve been apart. AND….I am not interested in re-connecting with you under the same design. If we decide to give this a shot again, I want to hear about EXACTLY what you need and to discuss what I need as well and make sure that we both agree that is a good direction.”
So why don’t you share with us here…what EXACTLY do you need to have happen before moving forward with him again?
Heidi
Hi Tanya,
Wow…you guys have been through a lot. I’m so sorry! I feel your strength and will to want to make this work.
I’m really, really sorry to burst your bubble, but desire, belief and commitment CANNOT conquer all. A healthy relationship requires soooooo much more than that. Yes, those things count, but other things count more. Like having self esteem, integrity, self respect. Studies have shown that the guy who is the one who ultimately ends up making or breaking the relationship success. Meaning….the more emotional intelligence the guy has, the higher success of the relationship. So you can believe, desire and commit all you want, but if he doesn’t have that mindset to begin with, then there is nothing you can do about that. You picked a guy who has broken his word SEVERAL times with you over the years by connecting with other women. Do you really think that will change by talking about it or him promising again? You picked a guy who needs some “space” vs. having the mindset of doing whatever it takes to work through this. He is taking “space” to try to figure out how he feels about you vs. looking at what he is doing and you are doing to create these challenges and making the decision to face it instead of run from it.
Imagine you are an employer and you have job that needs to be done, so you hired him. He said some good things and you felt good about bringing him onto the team. After several months, you are discovering how far behind on the job you are and you start to look at what is happening. You discover that this guy is texting a lot on the job, taking long lunches, leaving a little early and always arriving late. You talk to him about your discoveries and he says he will do better, he promises. He does better for a month or so, but then he starts showing up late to work again and he started texting a lot again. You give him one more warning and one more change because you really like this guy. He does great for a few more months, but then those patterns show up again. As an employer and having a job to finish, is this a guy you want to keep giving warnings to??? You can’t teach someone or convince someone to have a work ethic. It’s in them or it isn’t. They may be able to work hard for a period of time, but you can always tell as time goes on, they shift back into old patterns and cannot maintain the ability to work hard over long periods of time….because it isn’t who they are.
It’s the same with relationships. You want to convince him or change his mindset and you can’t. He is who he is. Everything he is telling you through his “actions” (not his words) is that he is not the kind of guy who is willing to fight for this relationship. I doubt he would fight for any relationship. Most people don’t fight because it means they have to look at themselves and face things they don’t want to face. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.
Bottom line, you can do EVERYTHING right, say all the right things, give him everything he has ever wanted and it still won’t change that he is someone who isn’t willing to really fight for things when the chips are down. And in all of your efforts to give HIM everything that he wants and needs, you lose yourself.
The very most you can do at this point, is to work on yourself. Give him the space he wants and then turn your attention to yourself. Look at yourself and start to heal your hurts. Learn how to communicate better, learn how to take better care of yourself emotionally. Get to know your triggers and work with them. When you change, the dynamics of the relationship can change. Maybe he will follow you when he sees how much work you are doing on yourself!
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Marguerite,
I understand your sense of desperation at your age when you are seeing other people transitioning. You are in the later phase of life and it makes you think about what you can experience while you are still here.
If I said to you, you have a good 30 years ahead of you, do you feel you would still have that “desperate” type of energy?
The thing is, the moment we head into fear, it causes us to make decisions from that place of fear, which changes everything. It changes what we attract into our lives and it changes how we experience people and situations. Your fear of never finding love again has made you want to hold onto this “almost exactly ideal” man who is playing the victim. This guys doesn’t have a spine. As much as he may have met that checklist and made you feel wonderful and accepted with all of your limitations, he also is running away and not being in his integrity. You want to fight for a guy who although treated you really, really well in one sense, but then chickens out? You really want a guy like that? He is far from having an ability to offer that kind of love you are craving.
No matter what phase we are in life, it is our responsibility to love ourselves and be responsible for our own happiness. What if you faced this fear of yours and shifted your energy to the thinking like, “I love my life, I love living and I am going to spend every minute having fun, having the adventures that I can and learning as much as I can. If a man happens to join me on that journey, then great! If not, I will still be on path to finding as much fun and pleasure and joy as I possibly can.”
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Diana,
I am so sorry all those men have said those things. They are very limited and obviously have VERY POOR emotional intelligence and little to no understanding about women in general.
First, IT IS possible to be lovable when you are alone. I have been single for 10 years now and I love myself, I have a wonderful life that is so full and packed with my dreams, fun with friends, dating every once in awhile and all the adventures I get to create. I don’t feel like I am missing anything by not having a man. A man coming into my life would add to my happiness for sure, but I am also very happy without a man. That is ALWAYS my goal. I do not want to depend on anyone for my own happiness. The truth is, when you rely on someone else to make you happy, you will never be happy because that other person is going to hurt you, let you down, disappoint you etc. It’s inevitable just because we are humans and make all kinds of mistakes. So when you define your value and whether or not you are loveable according to what another person says, you end up giving ALL of your power away. If a guy likes you, you are loveable, if he quits you, you are not loveable. How come you give those guys so much power??? You are letting THEM tell you what you are worth! Why do they get to decide that? They don’t know you. This last guy was only 2 dates! He hardly knew you! Why are you giving a guy who doesn’t know you, so much power over how you think about yourself? This is what Kanya was trying to get you to answer. You learned it BEFORE all of these guys. Someone taught you at a young age that what you do and say and how other people view you is all that matters and what other people say is the truth. Who taught you this??? It’s not okay! What about YOUR truth? What about what YOU think and feel???
Let’s just turn this around for a second. You didn’t like the guy’s music because it made you felt it was sad. Does that make you right and him wrong? He likes his music! So should he be saying, “You are right, my music is sad and I should never listen to it!” No! If he likes his music then that is what is right for him. He should change his opinion just because you say so. He shouldn’t be different just you say so. Neither of you is right or wrong about the music…it’s just different. And that’s what I say to the men who have “quit” me in the past.
When someone quits you, what IS true is saying, “I understand. We are just different. You like certain things and I like certain things and they don’t match.” That guy that quit you because he felt you had a body that looked like a boy or the guy who didn’t like your belly….do you really want to be with a guy like that??? No way! There would be so many problems in the relationship.
It seems like all you care about is to be with a man and it doesn’t matter who he is or what he is. As long as you with a man, you feel everything is okay. The problem with that, is that you are just using a man to feel good about yourself. You don’t REALLY like them do you? Even this last guy, you didn’t like his apartment, you didn’t like his music, yet you push those things aside quickly and decide you like him. What about what you like??? Why not go on dates like you are interviewing them for a job. You are the job they are trying to get. You have to screen the guys. You have to care about how they make you feel and how you feel around them. You have to pay attention to the good things and the not so good things BEFORE they get to be hired as your boyfriend.
I’ve said a lot here, so I’m going to stop. Let me know your thoughts about all of this!
Heidi
Hi Renee!
Thank you so much for the updates!!! I am honored to get to be a part of your process!
I just want to validate you all over the place.
First, I think it’s wonderful that he is opening up and sharing with you, even if they are difficult feelings and discussions about setting boundaries. I just want to add a little piece in there about you communicating to him to NOT worry about your feelings as that’s your job. That is 100% true!!! There are 2 things to remember here that also need to be added to that truth:
1. Remember you are talking to a man. At the very core center of most men, is a desire to put that big, beautiful smile on his woman’s face. It’s the basic “hero” principle. So when he is in a situation where he wants to say no, but instead says yes, the “hero” wins out every time for him. It’s a strong force! Then add on top of that, all his woundedness and his deep internal pain and depression. To disappoint his woman or risk a reaction from you, would make him want to say “yes” just because he would rather keep the peace, he would rather see you happy vs. unhappy and he would rather stay connected than to have any discordant energy. So….working from that information means that when you say, “I can take care of my own feelings. That’s my job, not yours” it may not really sink in. I don’t know if you did this or not, but just for future purpose……a more effective response might have been, “Oooooh! Thank you for telling me. Tell me more about that. Are you afraid of me being disappointed? Are you afraid of getting into an argument?……I understand why you would rather say yes than no. I’d like to offer another way to think about it that might relieve some pressure for you. Yes, when you say no to things, I might get upset or have a reaction. I am human and I am just not always going to react in ways that are the best. AND…with that being said, anytime I do have a reaction, I have 100% faith in myself that I will figure out my feelings and work through it. I have a therapist, I have a coach, I have friends, I have an incredible skillset….so that when any challenge shows up in my life, I have help to deal with it. That’s what life is about right??? It’s just going to be messy. You and I are going to be messy sometimes, but no matter what you decide to do, I will be okay. That is the commitment I have to myself. NO ONE has THAT much power over me to steal away my joy or my ability to be resilient and enjoy my life. You don’t have that much power in my life. That power stays within me. You absolutely have the power to make me cry and laugh and love and be angry….but…in the end, my joy lies within my hands with how I treat myself when I am hurt or disappointed. Does this help you understand a little more about how I look at things? I know this is something you are working on, so maybe seeing it from my viewpoint can help you know more about me.”
I just wrote a lot there, but I have no doubt you get the gist of what I am saying. I know this is through text, so I am sure you let a lot of detail out, but here are the 4 steps I always coach people through when someone shares their problem / challenge:
1. JUST listen / validate
2. Get curious and ask more questions about their thoughts and feelings
3. Validate AGAIN
4. THEN problem solve.So many times, people head straight into problem solving (myself included). I have a tendency to start to immediately put my coaching hat on and guiding people. Yes, sometimes that may be necessary, but MANY times, just doing steps 1-3, the person will already start to feel better. So the process I took you through above is how these steps can work.
Before I go on and write 5 more pages in response, I”m gonna stop and wait to hear back to see if this was helpful for you.
Bottom line though, I love all that is happening. You guys are talking, there is honesty, you both are working on your challenges and your families are still relying on each other in a healthy way. I’m with you….I am liking where this is heading right now!!!
Heidi
Hi Emilie,
You have been lost since the very beginning as he has sent many mixed messages your way all along. The thing is, it’s just a guessing game at this point. Trying to figure out what he means, how to say things, when to say things is a lot of work. It seems you are investing a lot of energy into something without much in return.
Here is my question to you that I would like you to live with for a bit before you answer. Do you still really like him? You liked who he was, but now you are seeing and experiencing a new side to him….a side to him that defines his manhood by how muscular his legs look, a side to him that takes his time getting back to you, a side to him that is sending a lot of mixed messages. So considering ALL that you know about him, do you feel he is the kind of guy gets to touch your heart???
Or….maybe you are still connecting in with him because the very common “You want what you can’t have” concept has gotten a hold of you?
I’d love to know your thoughts!
Heidi
Hi Christina
I’ll respond here on this thread, but it would be helpful if you started a thread all your own, so we can keep better track of you!
First, welcome and we are glad you are here and sharing your challenge. Although your fears are quite common and normal for those who have experience infidelity, they are difficult fears to face.
Whenever fear comes into the picture, it changes the energy in the relationship. You are fearful, therefore you are going to want to control the situation as much as possible….and that is where you are going to run into trouble. When the need for control increases, the other person can start to feel agitated, smothered and may even start to respond by sabotaging the relationship somehow. So the first thing to do, is to face your fear. Much easier said than done.
I’m going to share a personal story with you. A boyfriend from my past had a history of cheating on every girl he was with. When him and I started dating, I personally was just having fun and not taking him very seriously. Then we slowly grew into something more. In the beginning I could tell he was bracing for a fight when he would say he was going out dancing or to the bars with his guy friends. I always responded, okay….have fun! He one day asked me why I wasn’t “forbidding” him to go and I said, “You are a grown man. I am not your mother. You get to decide the kind of man you want to be at any given moment and that is YOUR path, not mine to tell you how to be. So you just go be you and I’ll be me. If you cheat, then I ask that you always tell me and we can decide together the next steps. It will hurt, but I am strong enough and resilient enough to know I will be okay and I will ALWAYS find my joy and happiness in my life, whether you are in it or not.” He told me months later how that conversation with me changed him. Never once, during the entire time we were together, did he ever feel tempted to cheat. He said that me putting the responsibility back in HIS hands vs. me trying to control him, made him really think about the kind of man he wanted to be in his life. Funny enough, every single time he went out, he always came home to my bed. He swears to this day he never once cheated.
I’m not saying this is the fix. There are concepts here I want to invite you to start to connect with:
1. You are worth loving, worth fighting for, worth knowing just because you are who you are….not because of anything that you do or say to “keep” his attention. Yes, there are things you can do to help with that, but bottom line, even without those “techniques” you should be captivating your guy’s attention just by being the normal you. If that isn’t happening, then there is something missing in the foundation.
I was able to say those things to my boyfriend back then because I had a confidence in my value. I know I am worth the experience and if he wants to ruin it by cheating on me, then he gets to do that, but it doesn’t change MY value. I am valuable, no matter what kind of person he decides to be. Your real fear is more about how you feel about YOURSELF and your own value vs. being afraid he will cheat on you again.
The confidence and my groundedness that my ex felt from me back then, was something that attracted him to me even more. Have you ever gone through the “Respect Principle” in your library from this Be Irresistible material?Do you understand what caused his eyes to wander? Did you guys talk about it at all? The fear you are still carrying around needs to be dealt with. You haven’t completely forgiven him, nor yourself. You don’t have trust in yourself. Trust, first and foremost is about trusting YOURSELF that no matter what happens, no matter what someone else decides to do, you KNOW you will be okay. When you trust in yourself that much, you can enter into relationship and love, which is a big risk in the first place….and have some peace and ease.
How does all of this make you feel?
Heidi
Have you gone through the “Relationship Rewrite Method” yet? There are a lot of wonderful ideas in that book!!! Also, John Gottman’s 7 Principles of Marriage is spectacular! Maybe you guys can start going through a book like that. When he is away, he can read it and digest it on his own and then when you guys come back together, you can discuss it. Do you feel this is a possibility?
There are also intensive weekend workshops where couples really dive deep and work through their challenges. Maybe a weekend away with support and guidance can give you guys a good kickstart.Hi Nicole,
Thank you for more details. There are some dynamics here that really make this very challenging, as there are a lot of layers to work through. The distance and that he is watching porn everyday are 2 big stoppers. Every time he goes away, it seems he becomes verbally abusive. It makes me wonder what is going on for him while he is away. He may still be watching porn, just using another guy’s computer. I am wondering if he is drinking more or maybe even surrounded by cynical guys who encourage him to behave in certain ways. It just seems strange that when he is at home, he treats you better and then every time he is away, he changes….so that just leads me to believe that he behaves in a way that aligns with the environment he is in. Thoughts about that?
I’m glad to hear you are doing your own counseling. Is it working for you? Do you feel like you are letting go of your anger more? Are you working towards forgiveness of him and yourself as well? Are you feeling changes inside your heart?
I’m sorry he is not following through on any of the agreements you make in counseling. That can be beyond frustrating!!! Have you talked with him about it? Would he agree or disagree with you?
Here is the thing….you can change all you want, but your marriage will never last until he decides to change. It sounds like he has a lot of internal work to do and he is not really interested in taking that path. So that leaves you with a choice. You can accept him for exactly who he is, or you can decide it’s not healthy for you and create a new path of growth and healing for yourself. You can only do so much yourself. He needs to meet you and join you on that growth path if things are going to work out. I’m not sensing from what you are saying, that he has any interest at all in following through on that agreement. Does he participate in counseling or does he resist it?
Heidi
Hi Tanya,
Thank you for being here and sharing your very challenging situation. I understand your need to do everything you possibly can, to try and repair what has happened. I just have a few questions and a few thoughts to start out. There are many dynamics involved here.
Here are my questions:
1. What EXACTLY did you guys decide to do to improve communication? Did you start practicing very specific things you learned form a book or program? Or did you guys just say you will talk more?
2. Did he every physically cheat or was it only texting and communicating with other women?
3. Did you guys talk about that a lot? Why it happened? How it happened? What needed to change in the relationship in order to help it heal?
4. what exactly do you want from him? If he comes back to you, everything is going to be the same. You both will fall back into the same patterns and end up right back where you are at right now. I know that is what neither of you want, so what are you wanting EXACTLY? You can change and heal and work on yourself all you want, but if he doesn’t join you in that process, your relationship will still be broken, as you are not the only problem here. Plenty of what he does has contributed to the situation you guys are in right now. So what’s the plan?The first thing I would like to invite you to think about, is that you are not powerless here. You are wondering all kinds of things about how you guys are going to function while he is taking his “space.” Why not sit down and have this conversation with him? Decide the boundaries and what feels okay for both of you and decide to create an ending as well. Part of your anxiety about all of this, is there are a lot of unknowns. Your opinion and your experience matters here just as much as his. So having a conversation where you BOTH design how you live together is important. Is he someone willing to see a couple’s expert with you? It sounds like you both have a lot of things to workout and neither of you really knows how to navigate the really tough waters of conflict and communication and all the feelings that come along with it. Is this a possibility to get some extra help from an expert?
Heidi
Hi Dana!
Okay…I first have to say that I totally busted up out loud when I read your response about the chipping in humans. That was good one!!! hahaha!
Okay, so now down to the nitty gritty. First and foremost, let’s address this thought that you have the HE is messing with your head. He is just being himself and doing what he knows how to do. Your response is all you really have control over in this situation. You are LETTING him mess with your head. It’s like you have given all of your power to HIM to decide whether or not this relationship is going to work, therefore leaving you to feel powerless and at his mercy (so to speak). What if you changed your mindset. He has to EARN the right to get you back. He has to PROVE to you that he is worth your time, your heart, your energy, your attention. Otherwise, you will move on.
With this kind of mindset, you are not sitting around waiting for him to reach out. You will respond if he decides to connect, but other than that, you are moving on with your life and he wants you back, he needs to work at it. You are keeping the power inside yourself instead of waiting for him to decide. YOU DECIDE!!! You know what you want, you know what needs to happen if you are to get back together with him, you know what needs to change and you are solid about that.
There is a lot more to say, but I am curious about how you feel about what I am saying. It’s a difference in energy. Just mull it around a bit.
And lastly, I wanted to validate what Kanya said. He can “get into your head” because you are being triggered by the abandonment. Yes, you love him and miss him, but there is also some woundedness that is being activated that adds to the intensity and is adding to the level of difficulty that you are experiencing. So in a way, it’s a wonderful gift that he is driving you nuts and that you are having such a hard time. It exposes areas where you are disconnecting from yourself and giving your power away. These areas are SOOOOO important to discover so you can begin to do some healing. This is still a really good time to figure out how to find your center and stay grounded in yourself, whether he reaches out to you or not. Does this make sense???
Heidi
