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Hi Melinda,
I LOVE the feedback the men offered! Again, that really sounds like a wonderful evening and great space for both men and women to listen and learn from each other! Spectacular!!!
I totally get what you mean about him gaslighting. Can you not apologize for your side of things though? It wouldn’t be admitting to the entire thing. It would just be an acknowledgment that you chose not to communicate and you assumed quite a bit. You did make up stories about how he was feeling. It’s just about owning your part, that’s all. It may end up softening him. Sometimes the guy needs a little encouragement by the woman role modeling what it looks like to accept your role in what happened. Just a thought.
How he is being critical is another red flag. All these things he is saying “in passing” so to speak, is ANOTHER form of him not being authentic. He now has 3 things that he showing you, about how he handles his feelings. He disappears, he criticizes and he gaslights. All 3 things come from the same core issue and it’s leaking out in different ways. The core issue is he really fragile emotionally. People like that will be very passive aggressive, not really take responsibility for their side of things and they love to pass the blame onto the other person. His criticism is a sign of deep anger by the way. Like Kanya said, that will start to show up more and more, the longer you guys are together. This dude is carrying A LOT inside of him and he doesn’t have a healthy way of dealing with any of it. He is a ticking time bomb. It’s NOT miscommunication. It’s funny how he is telling you to stop making up all these stories in your head, when that is exactly what he is doing about you going out. He has very little self awareness.
So again Melinda, there is nothing to “do” here. You either accept his version of how he handles emotions, or you don’t. You cannot fix him. You can fix yourself and how you communicate as you learn what triggers him, but that doesn’t change what is in him. Here is an analogy: Let’s say I ask you to bake a cake. I give you all the VERY BEST ingredients and recipe to make the most amazing cake ever! There is an exception though. You MUST add 1 cup of shit to the recipe.
You are trying to make this beautiful, amazing cake with wonderful ingredients, but there is a cup of shit that will change the rest of the cake. The cake can look beautiful and perfect and there are some amazing ingredients! AND there is 1 cup of shit and there is no way around that.
What is happening inside of yourself, that you want to keep trying to make this cake work, even with 1 cup of shit in it? Make sense?
Heidi
Hi Vino,
You definitely have had an adventurous life with the guys online! So you never met the guy in person in the UK either?? What a gift he gave you helping you unlock your sexy! That’s wonderful and soooo important for you to connect to!! I would encourage you to give all kinds of guy a shot. I have been surprised MANY times how a guy feels soooo different in person compared to their computer personality. So even if a guy hasn’t caught your attention through the computer, maybe still consider meeting him. You never know!!!
I really do want to encourage you to figure out ways to connect to your female side more often, all on your own. What about doing ballroom dancing?? Or belly dancing? Or even pole dance classes! Dancing is such a SPECTACULAR way to access your feminine and feel your body in brand new ways. I’ve seen it really help women connect to that beautiful female side to themselves in such a special way! Maybe consider that? Group classes are usually super cheap too!
Yes…forgiveness is all about your SELF. The other person has the right to be whatever they want to be. That even means they get to hurt you, but by forgiving, you are releasing the energy that they “slimed” you with. If you hold onto any hurt, anger, resentment etc. it only hurts you and then you really become no different than them. Forgiveness does not mean forgetting though. You DO want to remember the other person’s choices for means of protecting your very precious heart form someone who does not care to treat it well. Forgiving is releasing the negative energy from the event.
I hope you are having a wonderful and peaceful holiday!
Heidi
Hi Brandy,
Here is the thing about what you are feeling. The reason you are sooooo needing to contact him every single day, is because you are wanting him to do for you, what you are not willing to do for yourself. He helps you feel better about yourself. He acknowledges you. He gives you validation. He makes you feel valuable. When we have low esteem (we all have a ton of it!), we deal with it in 2 ways. We either seek outside validation to help us feel better (friends, sex, sugar, drugs, gambling, alcohol, partners etc.) or we use internal methods to helps us feel better. In relationship, it’s SUPER easy to plug your self esteem into your partner. Not that they can’t be SOME of your source of help, but when they become your ONLY source of help, trying NOT to connect in for you daily doses of whatever you get from him…feels impossible. Does this make sense?
Here is the thing. If he needs to fall back into her arms and feel the chaos of that, then you gotta let him figure that out. Sometimes we learn BEST by stepping back into the trauma drama. The more you try to control what he does, the more he will slip through fingers. He will feel your need to control him. He will feel all of your insecurities.
I know you are afraid. Everyone is terrified to lose the one they love. You have a choice to either keep letting that fear run your life and ruin your relationship, or choose to embrace it, get to know it and heal the parts of you that are terrified to know who you are separate than him. As long as you hold onto this fear, it will always create havoc and insecurity in your relationship…even if you got him back. Even if he returned to you, those insecurities are going to show up somewhere else in the relationship and you are going to continue to heavily rely on him to keep you happy and feeling loved. Guys run from that…as they should. It is NOT their job to make sure you are happy on the inside. That’s your job.
So I really want to encourage you to go deep inside of yourself and start to connect to that low self esteem. Are you ready and willing to do something like this? It actually might bring him back faster than you think.
Heidi
Hi NM,
You are NO trouble at all! This festive season is all about connection right? Sometimes, that means we need to focus on healing.
One aspect of why you are being tortured so much about all of this, is the story you are creating around it. You did NOTHING wrong. You were just being you, even if it was an insecurity that was coming out. Reality is, we ALL have insecurities and they all come out eventually. A solid relationship is able to handle those insecurities and the couple works through them. There is NOTHING to reverse here.
Here are the FACTS. He doesn’t want a relationship. He disconnects so quickly. He is showing you he is not interested in dealing with any kind of challenge that shows up in a relationship. That’s ALL you need to know about him. That is enough to know that he is not the kind of guy that is capable of having a deep, sustainable love with you. So truth be told HE IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU!!!! But instead, you are investing in the story that you are not enough for him….hence the continued torturous thoughts and hurt continue, because it’s tapping into your insecurities. You are trying to fight for a guy who is NOT EMOTINALLY available. I understand you have never felt like this before, but that is NOT enough of a reason to fight for a guy. There needs to be more than that to build a relationship and he just doesn’t have those qualities.
So in response to his message, you don’t have to say anything or you can just say “Thanks. I wish the same for you!” Again, it is NOT your place to hold him accountable to how he is choosing to live his life. He gets to be whomever he wants to be. It is not your job to hold him accountable to anything. Your only job is to be aware of the kind of guy he is and protect your heart from him. That’s it! You don’t have the kind of relationship that allows you to hold him accountable for his behavior. Besides, my guess is, whatever you say about him hurting you, my guess is, it will fall on deaf ears and then you get to feel a whole different level of rejection and hurt. But if that’s what you need to do, then you get to do that as well! This is all your design and you are the only one who knows what you are willing to do. Either way, we are here to support you 100% which whatever you choose!
Heidi
Hi Penny,
Here is something to help you understand what is happening for him. It’s called the “Upper Limit.” It’s the limit we each allow ourselves to be happy. So let’s use a simple scale of 0-10…10 being crazy happy and 0 being miserable. Where we each fall on that scale, is directly connected to our fears and low self esteem. The more fear, the stronger it is, the more low self esteem someone has, the lower on the scale they will live. So if someone has a happy factor of 3, when they start to actually live at a 3 and even start to pass that 3, the fears and low self esteem get soooooo BIG, that it causes the person to sabotage the experience. They breakup, they get in more arguments, they lose feelings, they ruin jobs etc. all so they can get back below a 3. In order to pass that 3 and graduate to a 4 or 5 or 6 or more, it means each time, facing and healing the beliefs that create the fear. It means embracing the low self esteem and healing those parts of you that don’t believe you deserve to be happy. So…you can say there is nothing to be afraid of, until you are blue in the face and it won’t change what his reaction is. He has to embrace that fear and get to know it, if he is ever going to be able to master it. Reality is, he, along with all of us, will ALWAYS have fear about opening our hearts to new levels. It’s a scary thing!!! The difference between me and you and him, is what we do with that fear. A healthy person will say, “I am afraid AND I am going to move forward anyways. I am going to face my fear. I trust myself enough, that if my greatest fear comes true, I will be okay. I know I can get back up on my feet and heal from whatever it is I am afraid to experience.” That is what he is not willing to do at this point, so this has nothing to do with you.
Maybe you can say something like this to him, “I know you are afraid. I imagine the more you open your heart, your fear gets bigger, for fear of hurting me or me hurting you. Reality is, it’s gonna happen regardless. It’s just what relationships and love are about. I’m afraid too. Love is a risk and there is no way around that. But you know what? I’m willing to take that risk and be afraid along the way. I know that no matter what happens between you and I, I will be okay. I am a resilient woman and I know you are a resilient man. There is nothing either of us cannot deal with. So instead of putting your trust in me to keep your heart safe, keep your trust in yourself that YOU can take care of your heart. If you are not willing to risk this love adventure with me, I honor that. That just means I need to really disconnect and move on with my life. I cannot go back and forth with you, as I need to take care of my own heart as well. I’m not asking for any major commitments here. I’m just asking if you are willing to face your fear and take the journey with me anyways. My life is so much more fun with you in it, so that makes this adventure worth it to me.”
How does that feel for you?
Heidi
Hi Boyd,
The best way to create a different dynamic, is to just be honest and let him know what you are doing, so there are no guessing games. You can say something like, “You know, when you said that you feel I am trying so hard, I really thought about it and you are right. I have had so much loss in my life that what is happening, is I’m terrified of losing you so I have a death grip on you! It’s not okay. I can see how that would stress you out. Thank you for sharing this with me. I’m going to pull back. I’m going to work on relaxing and my need to control our relationship. It’s a work in progress and I hope you have patience with me. As I figure this out for myself, I just have one request. I really would appreciate your continued honesty, even if you think it will hurt my feelings. I truly believe you are the best thing that ever happened to me and I want to protect that. At the same time, protecting that does not mean suffocating. If you start to feel that energy from me, I would appreciate you telling me…in a gentle way.” Then maybe you guys can come up with a code word he can quickly and easily use. Something funny, is always a good thing….like he could say “this is starting to feel like jello right now.” Does this make sense?
NOw, your job is to start to really work on the energy of trying to control the situation and having a tight grip on him. Your fear is causing him to distance, so if you want to keep him engaged with you, you need to face your fear of losing him….which would tie into the losses you have already had. What kinds of things can you do to face your fears? What are you willing to do?
Heidi
Hi Brandy,
So it sounds like you are the one really fueling this relationship, not him. He responds to you, but doesn’t really initiate anything. Maybe it’s time to try a different approach?
I know you said you don’t have patience not to talk to him. Is that something you are willing to work on? The thing is, it’s important for you and him to know what is REALLY there. If you pull away some, it gives him space to feel like he misses you. It gives him space to be able to initiate contact. That is important for you to know AND for him to feel. I know it sounds counter to what you are trying to create, but if you pull away and distance yourself some, it actually might ignite in him, the desire to connect. Might be something you want to consider trying. The formula you have going with him now, isn’t working anymore, so it’s time to do something different, to shake it up.
So it doesn’t sound like he handles stress very well or is good about setting boundaries. He is LETTING his ex drain him. He could easily just tell her not to contact him anymore. If she keeps crossing that boundary, he can block her. He is participating enough in this drama to keep it going, so reality is, this is HIS DESIGN. He is not a victim here. Her being sooo clingy and desperate serves him somehow or he would have cut it off a long time ago.
With that being said, I can see why he is just overwhelmed with relationship talk. It’s a normal response for when a guy pulls away, the woman tends to chase. A smart guy will say, “Listen, I need to go into my “cave” for a bit, but I promise I will come back out and re-connect tomorrow. I just have some things I need to figure out. I promise to share it with you when I am ready. Is this okay for you?” The not so smart guy just disappears and retracts and doesn’t give the woman any kind of understanding about what he is going through, therefore creating a lot stress on her end.
I am wondering if you can just be okay heading into friendship again? Just for the time being. Let him go into his cave and do what he’s gotta do. But communicate that to him by saying “Listen…I understand you need space, you don’t want to talk about relationship stuff and you are overwhelmed by your ex right now. I totally get it and respect it. What I am going to do is take care of myself as well. I’m gonna let you take the lead for a bit. If you want to talk and connect, you can reach out whenever you want. I always love talking to you. Otherwise, I’m going to leave you be and let you do what you need to do and stop contacting you every day. This will be hard for me, but somehow I feel it’s important right now. Is this something that feels okay for you?”
How does this approach feel?
Heidi
Hi Melinda,
Wow….a lot has happened! Holy smokes!
First, that dinner sounds absolutely fabulous!!! Wow! What a great idea! I really am curious what the men had to say when asked about women. What a great way to learn from them and give them the space to also voice their experiences! And then you cried when you got in the car. What emotion were you feeling? Sad? Hurt? Alone?
Being alone is tough at first Melinda. It’s really easy to fill our lives and space with other people, so that we don’t have to feel that aloneness…that empty house. Now you know when everything is empty, there are a TON of emotions you are feeling. You want companionship, but it’s actually not what you need. You need companionship with yourself first, so that someone else isn’t filling the void for you. It’s hard work to fill that kind of void, but well worth it! Just something to think about.
This new guy sounds fantastic! I love what you shared about him. He could be too good to be true, or maybe he really is what he says. The only way to find out is through time and experience. Did he ask you out again? Are you attracted to him at all? I imagine right now, you have so much on your plate, you are not emotionally available, so maybe that is a hard question to answer at the moment. Either way, the fact that he even has enough awareness and interest to have a therapist, tells me he is the kind of guy who will face his issues. That’s GOLD! Well done for him!!!
As far as your current guy, I understand why you don’t fully like his answer. The thing is, you BOTH are doing the same exact thing…assuming everything. You BOTH created all kinds of stories about each other’s lack of action, instead of just asking. When you don’t know something, you just ask. So my question is, what is stopping him from just asking what you needed? If he didn’t know what to do, what would make him pull away and distance instead of simply just letting you teach him what you needed? So the missing component on both sides of this equation, is communication. You both are wanting the other person to fight harder for the relationship, but trying to inspire that from each other by playing the “I’m going to distance so he or she will have to come after me” kind of game. Do I have a clear picture about what was happening??
I’m glad the anger has gone down some. The reality is, even though you may understand more about why he behaved the way he did, reality is, you still experienced how he copes with stress…he isn’t the best communicator. That means as you move forward with him, you have a lot of work cut out for you, trying to create open channels of communication with him, when things get challenging. Maybe that is why you don’t feel reassured? I also didn’t hear an apology in there. I didn’t hear how he wanted to do things differently next time. I didn’t hear you apologizing to him either. It’s not about being “right” or “wrong,” it’s about caring that hurt happened. You both were hurt by the same exact things.
Why do you feel he was gaslighting you?
Heidi
Hi Brandy,
Welcome! We are really glad you are here. You are asking some great questions. I can see why you are really confused and wanting to bring him back into your life.
I just have a few questions. What behaviors was he referring to, that you were doing, that reminded him of his crazy ex?
Just because you believe he has never lied to you before, does not mean he isn’t capable. He is absolutely capable of cheating, just like anybody. Given the right emotions, the right situation, the right person…things can happen. I’m sorry you have been cheated on so many times before. It’s awful to feel that kind of betrayal. You didn’t outright say it, but did you end up questioning him and accusing him of cheating and not really talking to his boys?
I understand he is your best friend and it’s a wonderful way to build a romantic relationship. However, you don’t really know him personally, as a romantic partner. Once love and romance comes into the picture, you see a whole new side of them you have never seen before. In his past relationships, how did he handle stress? How did he talk to you about his ex when he was angry or hurt by her? Would he shut her out, or would he try to work on things and talk about it?
From what it sounds like, he would be the kind of person who withdrawals and doesn’t stay connected. Is this accurate?
What is happening currently? How often are you guys talking? Who is initiating most of the contact? Have you even seen him in person?? Does he live close enough now to where you guys can actually hang out? I’m a little confused about that aspect.
Heidi
Hi Vino,
I’m glad you are connecting to the different levels of relationship that exist for you and how forgiveness plays into all of it. Forgiveness is not always easy, especially when the person you are forgiving isn’t going to change. That man from your past sounds very interesting. I wonder what was stopping you from moving with him and trying to figure out how to make things work.
I’m glad you are good just being friends with this person and deciding to still talk to other people. Again, I do want to encourage you to meet in person sooner than later. Having deep conversations with someone you have never met, again leads into fantasy land. Is this new guy you are speaking deeper with, willing to meet in person?
Heidi
Hi Vino,
I’m glad you are connecting to the different levels of relationship that exist for you and how forgiveness plays into all of it. Forgiveness is not always easy, especially when the person you are forgiving isn’t going to change. That man from your past sounds very interesting. I wonder what was stopping you from moving with him and trying to figure out how to make things work.
I’m glad you are good just being friends with this person and deciding to still talk to other people. Again, I do want to encourage you to meet in person sooner than later. Having deep conversations with someone you have never met, again leads into fantasy land. Is this new guy you are speaking deeper with, willing to meet in person?
Heidi
Hi Zuzana,
Well done! This is great! Being that he doesn’t have anyone to really talk to about this, your role is to be that person. You want to go in as a friend. The best thing you can do is listen really well, validate and ask a lot of questions. Ask questions about his thoughts, ask questions about how he is feeling about all of it, ask questions about what he TRULY wants to create with his family, ask questions about different ideas he has about how to solve these challenges, ask questions about what his biggest struggles are. It will create a space for him to completely dump everything that he is holding inside. It’s a great way to process everything and I have no doubt he will feel better if he really lets go and just says it all. It can help him process better. After asking a lot of questions and creating space for him to emotionally open up, you then ask, “well…I have some ideas. I’d be happy to share them with you if you are interested. If not, that’s okay too.” Maybe bring a book with you to the meeting that could be a good guide for what he is going through. Keep it in your purse and see if it feels appropriate to give it to him. If not, just hold onto it until the time is right. John Gottman has some wonderful blogs about parenting. Here is the link…maybe you can find something that may be helpful for him:
https://www.gottman.com/blog/category/parenting-emotion-coaching/
Does this give you a direction you feel good about??
Heidi
Hi Zuzana,
Well done! This is great! Being that he doesn’t have anyone to really talk to about this, your role is to be that person. You want to go in as a friend. The best thing you can do is listen really well, validate and ask a lot of questions. Ask questions about his thoughts, ask questions about how he is feeling about all of it, ask questions about what he TRULY wants to create with his family, ask questions about different ideas he has about how to solve these challenges, ask questions about what his biggest struggles are. It will create a space for him to completely dump everything that he is holding inside. It’s a great way to process everything and I have no doubt he will feel better if he really lets go and just says it all. It can help him process better. After asking a lot of questions and creating space for him to emotionally open up, you then ask, “well…I have some ideas. I’d be happy to share them with you if you are interested. If not, that’s okay too.” Maybe bring a book with you to the meeting that could be a good guide for what he is going through. Keep it in your purse and see if it feels appropriate to give it to him. If not, just hold onto it until the time is right. John Gottman has some wonderful blogs about parenting. Here is the link…maybe you can find something that may be helpful for him:
https://www.gottman.com/blog/category/parenting-emotion-coaching/
Does this give you a direction you feel good about??
Heidi
Hi Desma,
I’ve always wanted to go to Australia. I have a client heading over that way in January and she is going to spend and entire month over there! Super excited for her!
I understand your fear of losing him slowly but surely. Giving him space but also support and really focusing on the friendship and having fun together, can be EXTREMELY bonding, in an of itself! Don’t underestimate the power of that. Appreciating what you DO have vs. focusing on what you don’t have, will make this a lot easier.
I always suggest counseling if both are willing. Having someone give you guys ideas and be an objective set of eyes can be soooooo helpful! Maybe you can bring it up in this way…”I decided to look for a counselor. With you leaving and questioning our marriage, it really has caused me to look at myself and how I have contributed to where we are at right now. I can see some things I need to work on, but I need some guidance along the way. Maybe at some point, you and I can find someone who specializes in couples. I feel like we are worth fighting for and would absolutely be willing to give it a shot. If that is something you are interested in at some point, we can talk about it.”
How does saying something like that feel for you? Are you willing to go see a counselor, even if he isn’t? Again, him seeing you really taking this seriously and working on shifting and growing can be a really positive thing!
Heidi
Hi Rhonda,
You crack me up!!! Foggy days can be SUPER boring! Fog and wind are 2 things that tend to keep me inside and bummed out! I will definitely be sending a lot of good thoughts your way for this new job with Hal! Let us know as soon as you find out! We love being part of your life.
First, remember that how many men respond doesn’t really matter. Contacting 10-15 men a week is a lot. I am wondering if you are filtering at all or just reaching out to whomever you find even slightly interesting. Tell us about how you decide to who to contact. What kinds of things do you pay attention to before you decide to contact someone?
Okay…let’s get this started.
First, those guys that say “wanting someone without baggage and drama free” are living in fantasy land!!! That is impossible! They have drama and baggage they bring into the relationship as well. So a guy that says that screams “wounded” to me. They haven’t worked through their stuff. It’s obvious they have had a lot of drama from women in their lives and instead of working through it and forgiving all that has happened, they are still holding onto the energy and wanting a woman who is “drama free” so they don’t have to do any work. I stay away from guys like that. To me, that’s a statement essentially blaming the woman for any challenges that show up. Make sense?
As far as the 2nd guy, let’s try a different approach and see what happens. Instead of writing to him right off the bat, trying to convince him you are likeable, how about just asking him questions that are easy to answer. So you could start by saying something like, “Hey there! I love hiking as well and kayaking and snowshoeing. Anything outside makes me really happy. Where are some of your favorite hikes??” And then just leave it at that.
In your last profile, there is some language I would switch around. Saying things like “please give us an opportunity to meet” has an energy of trying to convince. That is not a confident energy. Instead you could just end the paragraph at always up for an adventure. It’s assumed they will contact you if you they are interested. No need to say it.
When you describe yourself, I suggest offering more detail. When you say “girl next door” and then “not your average woman at all” I have MANY ideas of what that could mean and so will many other people. They are general statements and really don’t give me much information and leaves me to create my own ideas about what that means. I would also take out the shy part. You say it a few times and shy people are not confident people. They are afraid. Are you really shy?? Not something I pictured about you. The last paragraph is great. I would just structure it a bit differently. Instead of using commas, use periods. It’s kinds just 1 long run on sentence, so break it up a little bit and maybe expand a little more. I enjoyed the picture you created about snuggling up and watching a game! More things like that are great!
Does this all help??
Heidi
