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Hi Candi,
It sounds like from everything you have listed, that a divorce would be a really healthy choice for you. If he is not willing to work on his issues and you are very unhappy, there really is no other direction to head in. I would imagine, being alone feels better than being in this marriage where you feel you don’t exist or matter. At least when you are alone, you are just alone. With him and his daughter in the house you are alone, but it’s because you are constantly being rejected and ignored….which is awful.
Robin Williams once said “I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up all alone. It’s not. The worst thing in life is ending up with people who make you feel all alone.”
You want companionship, but you are abandoning yourself to get it and you pay a very high price for that. You have 3 choices here Candi. 1) Stay and accept that this is your choice to stay in this toxic environment 2) Stay, but get some help. Find a therapist or start reading books that help you understand yourself and why you are choosing this kind of design and slowly equip yourself with more self esteem. You are in a relationship with a narcissist. Maybe start reading more stories and gain a deeper understanding about what to expect and how to help yourself in this kind of relationship. 3) Leave and start to get your life back.
Bottom line, your choice comes down to you deciding if you want to love yourself or not. He is not going to love you in a healthy way, so YOU have to love you. It is YOUR job to make sure your heart is happy and well nourished…not his job. So your choice is to either keep letting your heart and soul and life force slowly die as you deal with rejection, abandonment and feeling irrelevant every single day, or you start to fight for more…not by asking HIM to change. He is who he is. YOU need to make different decisions for yourself.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Rhonda!
As far as your post, the only thing I can think of, is you are asking a lot of questions that it can overwhelming. When you ask this many questions, it can make someone have the thought “I need to wait to respond to this when I have more time, because there are so many questions and topics to talk about.” So it can delay their response.
How about you just stick to 1 topic only per communication. You have 4 topics going on in this email and questions about each. Travel, his kids’ school, Christmas and his work. That’s a lot for a guy.
So the reaction I got while I read was post was, “okay…slow down a bit.” It feels like you are subject hopping and that can give the impression that you are someone who talks like crazy, is not a good listener, doesn’t provide much space for the man as you take up all the space talking and asking a million questions. It gives the feeling of a speeding car….moving fast.
Does this make sense?
If you understand guys are not natural multi taskers and are not as in tune with communication compared to women. So make it a rule to just ask 1 question about 1 subject and leave it at that. Let the conversation just be about 1 topic for awhile until another topic get’s introduced. This is the best way to communicate through technology. In person is a different story.
I have no idea if this is why he is not responding. There is NOTHING WRONG with you Rhonda. You are enough just as you are, whether or not men respond to you. Instead of asking “what’s wrong,” how about you FIRST look at what is RIGHT with you and then you can ask, “how can I do this better?”
Heidi
Hi Angelica,
I’m really curious. What are you learning about yourself and how you can be a better partner for someone?
I understand your need to hold onto the idea of him. You get to do that and no one can tell you otherwise. You are the only one that knows what you are ready for and willing to do.
We would love to help support you as you learn about yourself and how you can access more of your goodness and your love in a healthy way.
Gottman.com is a GREAT place to learn about relationships as well. Helen Fisher is another scientist who studies the brain in love and she has a ton of very interesting information! Between Kanya and I, we have a TON of resources for you whenever you are ready. Keep us updated with how you are doing and what your process is.
Heidi
OMG Emilie! As I was reading your story, I was like “OOOOHHH NOOOOO! Not again!!!!” But it has a happy ending and that just made it all the better! Whew!
This is so great that even though you are getting a bit triggered, you voiced it and he sure handled it really well! He did a good job of recovering. It sounds like he is getting his mindset back and he becoming more present with you again. I’m so glad!
So….there is chemistry, yes? I mean, you FEEL butterflies and sexual chemistry exists between you guys, right?
Heidi
I can’t remember if I shared this video before. It can give you some understanding about what happens in our brain when we go through breakups and letting go of love.
Hi Rebecca,
I’m sorry you feel so dreadful. I get it.
Let me help clear some things up for you. In his “using you for a fix” it doesn’t mean at all that he doesn’t have feelings of love for you! Of course he feels love for you and is very connected to you. He just isn’t very caring. For him to connect with you on the level that he allowed, was a very uncaring thing in the sense that he has no follow through. He invited you into a space of opening your heart and vulnerability, all the while knowing he was going to be disconnecting and distancing again. Although he loves you, it’s not a very healthy love. Although you love him, you are not loving yourself very much by entering into that space with him knowing you were going to be rejected the very next day, because nothing has changed. Like it was discussed before, he is split. He has one part that LOVES to connect and another part that creates distance and pushes people out. So his version of love if pretty wounded.
But here is the thing…if you think about it, many of us use each other for “fixes” at the expense of someone else. We may do it in different ways. The “fix” is for self esteem. For example, when I was in my 20’s, I flirted a TON! Each time I flirted and got a guy involved in that kind of energy exchange, I was getting my “fix” of feeling power over a man, feeling valuable and feeling like I mattered, because I could get a guy to react to me. I was just getting my needs met and in the moment, it was genuine and fun and mostly harmless, but sometimes not. Either way, I was using guys to help me feel better about myself….no different than you guy. He is just trying to get his needs met in the only that he knows how. Unfortunately, it involves your heart and that’s where you may want to consider drawing that line. As long as you keep participating in this “temporary” and occasional form of intimate connection, he will never learn to find his INTERNAL source of love. He will just keep looking to you (the external) for love and never really face is issues.
You are spot on when you say “that our closeness the other night was about it being hard for him too, that he might be torn as I am, in loving someone but knowing long term it won’t work as he messes up with his distancing and shutting out which is his default.” Of course this is hard for him and he is torn! He has spent his entire life being sourced by others and using his external world to validate him. Just like an addict, he is going to struggle. He is going to want to have “tastes” instead of going into the pain of complete withdrawal. So as a single guy now, he is still going to keep connecting with you or other girls who accept that he won’t commit, and he will find ways to get his “fix” because that is how he meets his needs of feeling love. He is doing what anybody would do in order to really avoid the depths and discomfort that come with being truly alone. It’s a scary place!
I did not mean to come across as this being a “bad” thing or that it isn’t love and honest struggle. IT IS ALL OF THAT for sure! I did not mean to come across as diminishing or cheapening your experiences together. I don’t know if those are the right words.
I hope this all makes a lot more sense. My goal is to help bring deeper understanding to how we ALL function in our lives when we are seeking validation from external sources vs. internal sources. What he is doing is pretty common. He is just wounded and is doing the very best that he knows how at this point. I am just wanting to encourage you to separate even more and give him the gift of himself, by no longer allowing him to connect with you that way. He is connecting in ways he cannot support or sustain and it’s harmful to you and him. He needs to face himself and what it feels like to NOT have you as a source he can plug into for connection and love in order to supply himself with a boost of love and self esteem. Hopefully he will truly fight for himself and find his inner value through other ways that come from his insides. He is gonna need some help. I hope he reaches out to someone professional or starts to read some books or something of that nature.
Does all of this make a little more sense?
Heidi
Hi Rebecca,
The first thing I want to ask you, is what makes you think you are not memorable? You mentioned that it was hard to know how much to be in contact so he doesn’t “forget” how he feels around you. Rebecca…if he “forgets” then he is not someone who is meant for you anyways. You want a guy who can’t stand to go a day without connecting with you. You want a guy who has himself figured out enough, to KNOW what a catch you are and he is going to swoop you up, so no one else can get you! If someone doesn’t feel that way about you, then all you are doing is settling for whatever you can get.
In regards to your perception that he has nothing to gain by saying he will always love you, by kissing you, by standing next to you – he has a TON to gain or he wouldn’t be doing it! No, it’s not about sex for him, but what he is gaining, is connection. If his addiction is to constantly be in relationship and now he has chosen to be single, as long as you are still around, he can still get his “fix” for his addiction by connecting with you. Let’s really look at this…he says to you “I love you and always will” he cuddles with you all night, he flirts with you and stands close to you, he touches you, he kisses you….and then says “we are just friends.” He is basically getting a quick “fix” off of you. He gets to connect as if he is in a relationship with you for an evening and then gets to go back to being “single” the next day. He is not facing being single at all. He gets to connect with you whenever you are around because he knows how invested you are in him and you are not willing to set boundaries. If you think about it, as long as he keeps feeding you these lines and keeps connecting with you occasionally like this, he gets to keep you hooked on him. It prevents you from moving on and replacing him, therefore he gets to feel valuable. If here were really serious about being single, he would be single. No sex, no dates, no cuddling in bed, no kissing, no “I love you’s and always will.”
I can’t blame him for doing what he is doing. It’s crazy, crazy hard to face our biggest issues and most people fall back into old patterns and addictions in various degrees as they try to navigate through the very complicated mess they are carrying inside. He is doing the best he knows how. He is also finding ways to keep you hooked. So YOU need to decide how long you are going to wait for him, because that is what you are doing. You are waiting for him, but he is not waiting for you. He is moving on with his life all the while playing with your heart strings with no real commitment. He gets a lot from this design and you just keep getting a broken heart as he doesn’t follow through with any of it.
Does this make sense how this is serving him?? He gets to have his cake (being single) and eat it too (feel a deep connection with someone, behave intimately with her but doesn’t have to commit). It’s a good formula and it works! I’m not saying he is even aware of what he is doing and why. Maybe he is, who knows. It doesn’t matter though. What matters is you are participating and it’s awful and it hurts.
Heidi
Hi Melissa!
That sounds like a wonderful night! You guys are back on track and having an upswing. Enjoy it fully and completely and let it sink in. Then when the next downswing comes along, know that it is totally okay, relax into it, knowing there is an upswing on its way soon enough. No need to play all the games with him. So yes, relax into it and find safety in that you always end up back on your feet, right??? He will be moody and cold and that’s okay! He gets to! So you get to go connect with a girlfriend instead and wait until his mood passes. It always does. I wonder if he has a form of bipolar. Is there a way he can go get tested? Having the right kind of medications make all the difference!
Still come here and vent though. I know what you are facing and trying to do is not easy. It’s safe to come here and bitch about it. I know girlfriends can get sick of hearing about it unless you are actually willing to do something about it. We understand what you are dealing with in a different way than most people do, so it’s okay with us for you to come here and say whatever it is that you need to say!!!
Heidi
Hi Melissa,
It’s great that you come here and vent and let all of your thoughts out. They definitely need to go somewhere and not stay locked up inside your mind. So well done!!
I’m not quite sure what your purpose of playing this game with him is. It’s a game, because you are making all kinds of decisions about what needs to happen and just waiting and watching what he does or doesn’t do and then creating a story around all of it….all of which he has no clue what is really going on. Neither of you is being authentic, honest and really working through anything. You think space is going to fix any of this? All space and time apart will do, is just delay the inevitable. Space will NOT fix your need to control. Space will NOT fix his moods. Space will NOT change the rollercoaster ride you guys create together. I sure wish it did. That would be the easiest way to fix anything. Your emotions are all over the place…and that’s okay! Maybe consider letting go of the idea of creating space. Just let your relationship be what it is. It’s a rollercoaster ride. You want to stay on, so just stay on. It’s gonna hurt, it’s gonna be wonderful, then it’s gonna hurt again and then it’s going to be wonderful again…all within a single day. All the space in the world is not going to change any of that. So just let it be what it is and accept this is your choice. You will find more peace in that, than you will in taking a week off from each other. Or…go get a therapist who you can commit to work with weekly. If you are that unhappy, then fight for your happy through ACTION. “insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.” I know you know this, but just thought I would remind you. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. He is who he is, you are who you are and that’s it. Being that you don’t want to exit, then how about really trying something you haven’t before…fully embrace your choice. Rest in your choice. Let yourself love and experience a relationship that is really, really hard. Yes, he is inconsiderate, but you know this and it’s not his fault that you get hurt by it. Just rest in your choice that you are choosing an inconsiderate guy. He is choosing a controlling woman. You BOTH have a lot of baggage you are carrying around, which is why you are attracted to each other. You are just as attracted to each other through your woundedness as you are through the best parts of yourselves. No matter what is “wrong” with him, you operate at the same level of vibration / energetic frequency as he does…otherwise you would be dating. So until you are ready to do something different and take an action that can really impact the relationship, just rest and know it’s gonna be a bumpy ride. Oh well! No biggie! So what that he didn’t say goodnight on Sunday. It doesn’t have to mean anything. So what that he was moody or cold again. You know he is gonna be and it has nothing to do with you. No biggie! Just go with that flow!
Thoughts?
Heidi
Heidi
Hi Melinda,
What a bummer that he didn’t show yesterday. Listen, you just need to say it’s over and that’s it. It doesn’t need to be a conversation and I highly suggest you DO NOT get things off your chest. Here is why…your heart, your emotions, your vulnerabilities are very precious and sacred things. That means those parts of you need to be protected and ONLY handed over to people who can create a safe space for you. He has shown you so far, since the last time you “got things off your chest” that he IS NOT a safe person to open up to and be honest with when it comes to confronting him. He runs the other way. And btw….for anyone to claim that their past doesn’t dictate their future, is completely not connected to themselves and VERY naïve. That’s impossible! Our pasts are CONSTANTLY affecting our present moments and it’s someone who is aware and connected to themselves that knows that. He is living in fantasy land if he truly believes that. My point being, when you expose your vulnerabilities to someone who is really not interested or equipped to handle your emotions, you are setting yourself up for some major rejection and hurt. And the hurt is so much more intense BECAUSE you are being raw and honest.
What you do, is just call him and say it. If he doesn’t answer the phone, you leave a voice message and just say it. No need to go into any detail. All you need to say is something like, “Listen, it’s obvious you and I have shifted. Our relationship is much less connective and it just feels like we aren’t going anywhere now. It’s time for me to throw in the towel. It hurts and not at all where I thought we were going, but it’s time for me to accept what is. So I just wanted to communicate that this kind of relationship and the lack of connection that exists now, just doesn’t work for me. If you want to talk about it or work with me to create a different design, then I am totally open to that. Just let me know. Otherwise, I accept what is and am not one to try to force anything. Take care.”
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Melinda,
You ask some great questions and one that many people struggle with. You ask “How do I know that the truth is he isn’t communicating much because this is about him being scared of something? I truly believe that he is communicating less because he just wants to be left alone.”
Let me ask you this….why are you choosing to believe that he is communicating less because he just wants to be left alone??? You actually don’t know that, yet you are making this the center reason about why he is behaving the way he is. It’s your low self esteem and past experiences that are running the story, yes???
Here is why I believe it’s fear, but let me first explain something…or maybe you already know this. We make decisions and create experiences from 80% of our subconscious. That means most of what how we design our day and everything that happens in it, is coming from thoughts and beliefs we are NOT connected to consciously. This is probably the area of the human psyche I understand the most. I grew up having all kinds of “symptoms.” I was designing my life in ways that I couldn’t understand. So I kept digging and digging and digging until I could connect to deeper parts of me that were actually in the driver’s seat. For example, I couldn’t understand how in one second I felt strong feelings for a guy and then the next day, I would feel myself start to pull away, because of a small, minor thing that should not cause such an intense reaction in me. I did this a lot back then!!! It wasn’t until I dug deep enough that I discovered some serious trust issues and the reasons why. It wasn’t until I connected to those, that I started having more control about how I was showing up with men. With that being said, all the “symptoms” you have described to me, fit the description of fear to a tee. For someone to go from being connected and open, then a confrontation or event occurs, then they shut down and become less available, that means they are protecting themselves. Walls went up around their heart. Why? Because they are afraid and they are emotionally fragile. It takes GREAT strength to get hurt, heal and step back up with an open heart. There is nothing easy about that. Most people hold on to their hurt as a form of “protection and warning beacon” so they don’t get hurt again. It’s a special person who can get hurt, forgive and just go with the flow…and remain open. You claim he just wants to be left alone. Let’s just say that’s how he feels. That is just the surface and may be what he is feeling, but why? Because he has walls up….which take me back to fear being the source of his behavior. Is he connected to his fear? Most likely not. Besides, something in him is still reaching out and connecting, so if he really wanted to be left alone, he would create that 100%. What it sounds like, is he is split. He is terrified (subconsciously) AND he still feels really connected to you. Those parts have a serious battle every day in his heart. Add on top of that, all the stress of the divorce.
I soooo understand how tired you are. This whole situation is triggering you on sooooo many levels. I would like to invite you to consider something. The longer you don’t create closure in some form or another, the more energy it takes from you. Part of why you are so tired, with this particular aspect of your life, is because you are hanging out in a space of “I don’t know.” The amount of energy it takes to live in that space is EXHAUSTING!!! The moment you create closure, in one direction or the other, the moment you can find peace and your spirit can settle. So what does closure look like? It looks like either closing the door completely, because you are not interested in these short, surface interactions…or you set up a conversation to talk about what need to happen if you guys are going to move forward. It may take a lot of energy to go through the conversation, but it will give you more information that you need and it will give you DIRECTION! Something you really need right now, with this relationship. You are strong enough to make this happen Melinda. You have it within you to fight for your heart.
Heidi
Hi Rachelle,
We haven’t heard back from you. How are you doing? Any new updates or thoughts about what is happening??
Heidi
Hi Zuzana,
Welcome! We are glad you are here.
This is a really tough one. I’m so sad for the dynamics going on here. The women in his life are manipulating him all over the place and are not caring at all about his happiness.
The thing is, HE has to figure this out on his own. You cannot force him to see or be anything he is not ready for. You literally are wanting him to reject his daughter. And it’s good advice! But it doesn’t mean he is ready for something like that. It has to make sense to him and he has to be willing to go through the consequences that will follow. There is nothing easy about that.
This is not about you. What I think would be the MOST powerful thing you can do at this point, is to support him and be his friend. What if you put the romance on the back burner and offer him support as a parent. It creates bonding, it creates you as a role of support and safety for him. Who does he have in his life to help him through this????
So what if you said something like this, “Listen. I found out what you are going through and I understand your need to pull away from me. It’s a big deal with you are going through. How about we meet up for coffee and we just talk. We don’t need to talk about our relationship. I just want to offer you support. Being a parent myself, I know what you are going through and I also know how important it is talk things through. If you will let me, I’m a good listener and can offer ideas if you want.”
How does this approach feel for you?
Heidi
Hi Rhonda,
Here is a brene brown video on vulnerability that I love.
Instead of thinking of vulnerability as something emotional, look at it more as the true, honest you. Being vulnerable looks like you being and saying what is true for you. Yes, emotions are part of that, but it’s not the FULL picture. Another thing to remember is that you don’t want to be completely vulnerable with people who are not safe. Your emotions and thoughts ARE valuable. If you just go spurting out ALL of who you are, with just anyone, you are going to invite rejection into your life. Your tears all the way to your laughter, deserve to be protected and cared about. I have been around people where I was dying laughing….u know that laugher where you can’t breathe and you can’t stop? And the people (over the years) actually got uncomfortable with how hard I was laughing. They didn’t laugh with me, they didn’t laugh at me…they pretty much just thought I was ridiculous. You can guarantee that someone like that does not get to be in my life and I pull way back. Does this make sense???
Heidi
Hi Candi,
Wow…you are really going through a lot. It is so sad that this is the kind of love that you both are choosing.
Help me understand you a little better. He is someone who has lied several times and began the relationship with you based on a lie. He is cheater, he is controlling, he has strong narcissistic tendencies. What I would like to know is this….tell me how you feel around him. I know right now he is completely rejecting, but tell me how you felt around him since being married? Tell me what EXACTLY you want to fight for with him. What kind of relationship are you wanting with him? I’m also wondering if he started another affair. He is NEVER home. Where is he going when work is done??? Have you ever wondered that??
Heidi
