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Hi Maria,
Welcome! I love that you are here exploring other opinions!
Absolutely an age gap like that can work. I want to encourage you to stay away from the “I’ll be tired when I’m 70 and he will be full of energy” kind of thinking. That is future, predictive kind of thinking and it’s not based on any kind of facts. It’s important for you to stay present and dealing with what is happening TODAY. If you guys make it that far, you will deal with it at that point. You never know what the future holds.
It sounds like the real deal breaker might be the children thing. If he is not willing to give up having children, then there is nothing you can do about that. Is he willing to let that go? Is he willing to try other options like adoption? Is that something you are open to? There are many ways to have kids in your life – I never had children, but I have a lot of children in my life through friends. I also take care of a lot of different dogs, so I get to activate my nurturing/mothering side of myself all the time.
It’s been 5 years, so I imagine you both have talked about this extensively. You guys are still together, so I’m wondering if he is willing to let the idea of kids go, otherwise why would he still be with you?
Heidi
Hi Emma,
This is an interesting way to approach this. What are you hoping to have happen? You say, “come get me when you are ready” but what about your kids? What if he doesn’t come get you?
I know you want to get away, but leaving and going to China is not going to change what is happening at home. It’s not going to heal the deep rooted issues you both are dealing with. It’s not going to change how he wants to live his life. Even if he did come get you, it won’t change that he doesn’t believe in therapy, he is going to do what he feels he needs to do for himself (travel, support the other woman, keep fighting with you etc.).
This idea sounds more like a revenge kind of thing than a choice for healing. I know you want to get away, so maybe go about it in a different way that doesn’t compromise your kids and cause more damage to the relationship. And why Asia? There are so many places you can go.
What if you said “I need to get away for a week and really think about things.” Let’s create a plan so you can take care of the kids and house. When I get back, you and I really need to sit down and decide what our next steps are going to be. I will be thinking about that while I’m away, so I’d like you to think about it as well. I don’t know what the answer is, but what I do know is that what we are doing is NOT working and we can’t keep going on like this. I have reached my limit and I’m guessing you have as well.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Samantha!
Welcome! We are glad you are here sharing your struggles with us.
I first want to say that I am so so sorry for all that both of you are going through. Losing family members that you are close to, is incredibly challenging and difficult and it changes your identity. It is a really tough situation that you both are facing right now.
It sounds like the challenges actually have nothing to do with what’s happening within the relationship, but it’s more about the stress of loss and how that is getting expressed. I”m really glad you are getting some help. That is the very best choice you could have made for yourself!! It sounds like you are really learning about the hurt you are carrying around and how that impacted your connection with him. Well done!!!
You are 100% right in that you cannot fix how he is feeling. You cannot change how he views what is happening. He gets to have his perspective and story about everything that is happening. The most you can do is offer your side of things and hope he can receive some of that. In the end though, it sounds like he just wants to retreat and that is how he wants to handle all of this. It’s a common coping mechanism, but the sad thing is, it ruins and breaks emotional safety and trust if the person doesn’t work through their coping mechanism.
He is living with a TON of fear and the reality is, that fear is in the driver’s seat of his life. It takes great strength and courage to face those fears in order to protect what he loves and values….his relationship with you. He obviously is incredibly confused and clouded by all the emotions he is feeling and he doesn’t have the wisdom, knowledge or skillset about how to handle any of it, in order to find out how he REALLY feels. He is making decisions based on fear that is consuming him. That is a journey only he can take.
You don’t want to rescue him from it either. It is sooooo so important that HE makes the choice to face his feelings. If you try and rescue him from his pain, then you are helping to create a very fragile partner for yourself. He needs to WANT to work through this differently. He may never reach that space, I don’t know. So the reality you have to face is that you are are choosing to grow and face your own stuff, but if he doesn’t make that choice, you will grow apart. You NEED a partner who is willing to face their fears, ask for help, get accountability, take ACTION instead of retreating. That is the kind of partner that will be able to stick with you through the toughest times instead of retreating and abandoning the connection.
Just something to think about with abandonment. There are 3 components to a relationship. You, the other person and the relationship connection. You and the other person create the connection and how it functions. So with abandonment, when someone leaves, they are abandoning the connection, not you. Someone’s choice to leave has to do with THEIR issues, THEIR stories, THEIR coping mechanisms, THEIR unprocessed traumas and wounds and sometimes. You are an intelligent woman, so I’m guessing you know this already, but I just wanted to re-iterate it for you. Whenever I am really struggling with someone else’s choice that is causing me hurt, I step back and remember THEY have their own journey, their own path and my job is respect it and decide if I want to to continue to connect or not, if that is even an option. Either way, trusting their process, even if it’s dysfunctional, is really important. Pain is an incredible motivator for growth, so letting go, letting him go through this hurt in the way he wants to, is important for his path. Whether he wants to grow from this or bury this, that is information YOU need to know as well, about the kind of person you want to have holding your heart.
Studies have shown that it’s the WORST in a relationship that makes or breaks the success of a connection. No matter how amazing things are in general, if a couple does not handle stressful, challenging situations with respect, connection, authenticity and a growth mindset, the foundation of the relationship is cracked and damaged and will eventually break.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Stephanie,
That’s great that you guys are able to reconnect through text at this point. I want to encourage you to keep things on the lighter side with him. It’s good that you guys are just talking about life and NOT the relationship yet. It helps to build connection again without the pressure of the tough stuff. Being that he is under a lot of stress at the moment, getting to connect and joke with you I’m sure is quite helpful for him.
At the same time, It’s also important to honor what you need as well. It’s sounds like not talking for 3 weeks was your limit. Yet, you guys are back communicating again. It sounds like you are not clear about what you really want from him and it also sounds like you are not super clear about why the breakup happened in the first place. I understand he was under a lot of stress, but I’m wondering a little more about his need to get more serious with you, especially since it’s not something you never hinted at. When you explained a little further, you said you both felt like that was too fast, so it sounds like you both were on the same page about that topic, yet you think it’s why he needed space. So I’m a little confused as to exactly why he ended things, if you both were on the same page about the marriage topic.
Either way, I think was is most important here, is that you both have a connection and still care for each other, but maybe you guys need to sit down at some point and really talk about how to share feelings with each other WITHOUT pulling away. It sounds like his reaction was to run away and this is a really big red flag. I have that same type of coping mechanism AND I have developed a skillset to help myself stay connected. If I decide to end a connection, it will be from a clear and well informed mindset and NOT because that is my coping mechanism. So it’s important for you to know that his coping mechanism is to run away and disconnect and that will never change. Our coping mechanisms, whatever they may be, will always be with us. The goal is to learn how to manage them when they do show up, so that we don’t end up causing damage to the relationship. Him running away has broken trust and safety. I don’t know your response to all of it and what your coping mechanisms are, but no matter what, if you guys want to build something more healthy, at some point, both your coping styles need to be discussed and addressed. Here are some great tips for conflict to help you BOTH understand what is happening and then how to set yourselves up for success down the road. Hopefully this link works, so if it doesn’t, just let me know.
https://info.gottman.com/relationships-and-conflict?
utm_campaign=2023%20November%20Consumer%20Campaign&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=282598051&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_WNryZBhm41UM-DbFvB5Q5ALcyDqdL_GlNIdlWFw60jE-ya-2ytp5APuRUTRAGbyCH26ZyZbyRHjcUUh5waElgn1z1lA&utm_content=282597560&utm_source=hs_email#filter=.BlogIn the meantime, I suggest continue building the connection on a lighter note. Give it some time and then at some point you can say something like “We’ve been connecting for some time now. I still have a lot of feelings for you, but I’m not sure where your head is at. I know you have a lot going on right now, but I need to at least know your mindset….I personally do not want to keep investing in the idea of you and me together, if that is something you truly don’t see with me. What are your thoughts?”
Does this approach feel okay for you?
Heidi
Hi Emma,
It sounds like he is just going to be who he is and is not interested in truly growing or changing or connecting.
So that leaves you with 2 choices. You stay and accept this is who he is. He is going to lie, he is going to travel without you, he is going to blame you for not being happy, he is going to stay confused and he is going to love you and care for you in a very limited way. If you are not ready to leave, you need to accept your choice of staying in this type of relationship that is rejecting and painful, not romantic, barely talking and a lot of fighting.
OR
You accept and honor who he wants to be…and you leave because the kind of love he offers is not enough for you anymore.
Unfortunately, either choice you make, you are facing pain and hurt. The difference is, if you stay, there is no healing. You are just going to keep getting hurt, continue fighting, continue feeling rejected and as long as you stay with him, that’s your life. There is no end to the hurt. If you leave, you will face the pain of the loss of him, but you won’t be facing the daily hurt of his choices. You will have an opportunity to actually heal.
It’s your choice Emma.
Heidi
Hi Emma,
Oh I am so so sorry you are having to feel this way. It sounds like both of you are really not getting each other. He is feeling like you hate him and your are feeling unsafe.
You both have a lot of reasons for the feelings that are present. It’s so incredibly difficult. Your heart must be breaking right now. It just doesn’t seem to be working out between you guys.
If you guys aren’t willing to get some help and have someone teach you how to move through all of this toxic baggage, then splitting up is probably going to be the next step. Being together is not working. There are so many feelings between the 2 of you and it doesn’t sound like either of you are addressing those feelings directly and working to release them. So those feelings are just going to continue to grow and be like an energetic cancer and cause a lot of harm.
I’m so sorry you are having to face this and that he lied again. It truly is awful. Feel free to come here and vent and let it all out!
Heidi
Hi Ladan!
Let’s go over your questions.
So I told myself after watching and reading some of the relationship programs that until Jan give it your all and see if it makes a change in him and if not then finish it. Am I wrong to think that? I understand your thinking here. You really want to give it everything you have before deciding to let go. A lot of people think that way actually. Sometimes it’s healthy and sometimes it’s coming from a lot of woundedness and not wanting to face the reality. The thing is, you are wanting him to change. You are wanting to fix him with your love. This type of thinking is coming from your own woundedness. If you go back to your original experiences with your parents, you would have felt like you were not lovable and never enough to get the attention you deeply craved and needed. A pretty normal response is for that child to think and be and do whatever possible to get that love from their parents. It’s what you are doing with this guy. It’s the mindset of “If I just ‘do’ something (give him space, love him more, tell him how much I appreciate him) he may change and I might finally feel love from him. It’s a formula that never works nor has any kind of sustainability to it. It may change things for a period of time, but the reality is, that is YOU sourcing him instead of him sourcing himself. Is that really the kind of relationship you want to design? You become his “mommy” and you end up spending all your energy nurturing the relationship while he is in a constant receiving state from you. You will never feel known, supported, emotionally safe and so on. This guy is no different than what you experienced from your parents growing up. Does this make sense?
I believe if he doesn’t even pay for dinner then what kind of effort and investment is he putting in this relationship. Am I wrong? Here is a question I have for you…Imagine your guy was super attentive, emotionally available, loved having deep conversations with you, was open and vulnerable and really connective and you felt completely safe with him. Do you feel that him not paying for dinner would matter as much?
Don’t they say if a man doesn’t invest with his money and time then he doesn’t really value you? Value comes in many different forms. Put yourself in his shoes for a moment. If you were facing retirement and felt that your home, your lifestyle, your comfort, your safety didn’t look so good and there was a possibility that you might have to say goodbye to everything you have created for yourself so far, wouldn’t you want to pull back financially and figure out ways to avoid that possible painful reality? Whatever his mindset is and whatever his fears are about money and his life, they are true for him. I know you believe he can afford it, but in HIS mind, he is wanting to protect himself. Is it a healthy, clear mindset? Probably not, but he gets to be that. You keep thinking that he isn’t investing because he doesn’t value you. I’m saying he isn’t investing because he is scared about his future and he is wanting to protect himself.
You have a very wounded, lonely little girl in you that is so desiring to be loved and valued and seen and fought for. Her parents never gave that to her. So she is looking for it elsewhere and picked this guy who is similar and familiar to what she knows. You are re-living your childhood through this guy. If you are interested, I can recommend a Coach who is masterful with helping people heal from stuff like this. I’m happy to send you her info. if you feel like you want to address these things.
One question I ask my clients a lot is “Is it a loving thing to do for yourself, to love this person?” Would you say that ‘loving’ this guy is a wonderful, nourishing, loving, caring, kind thing for your heart? You have this part of you that wants to “love” this guy into connection with you. He is not available so maybe if you love him enough or give him everything he needs, he will finally open up. The problem with that type of thinking, is you are abandoning yourself in the process of that…and that is what is called “trauma bonding.” It’s a love being sent out into the world sourced by trauma energy. Here is a video that talks about it….hope this helps:
Heidi
Hi Ladan,
What a beautiful name! I’m glad you are here asking for a different perspective. That says a lot about you that you are willing to learn and be guided!
I’m sorry you are feeling so disconnected from him and in a lot of fear and hurt with how he chooses to live his life. That’s tough! I will just prepare and say that you probably won’t like what I have to say, but considering your level of intelligence, I doubt I will be saying anything you don’t already know.
I feel like he can just end the relationship quite easily and that hurts. From what you have told me, I would say this is true. He made a commitment to himself to never fall in love again, he is not emotional, he doesn’t share himself with you, you are constantly chasing him for some type of connection, and the list goes on. So yes, the way he is operating, he could end the relationship more easily. That being said, it has nothing to do with you. You say it hurts, but it only hurts because you are taking it personally. Take a step back for a second and look at the bigger picture. This guy is NOT set up for intimacy. He is operating with A LOT of fear, therefore he is constantly protecting himself somehow. There is a part of him that wants to open up and connect or he would not have chosen to connect with you, but what is winning, is his fear, not love and connection. He was like this BEFORE you even met him, so this has nothing to do with you. This is about his relationship with love and the limiting beliefs that source it.
I told him I understood when you said we need to go 50/50 when we want to take vacations but I didn’t think I need to pay when we go out. I don’t think I am asking for to much. The thing is, he can afford it but he is choosing not to because of his financial goal. I understand your beliefs and you get to feel that way. He gets to feel the way he wants too. He is in a lot of fear about his finances, and looking at his budget, spending $1000/mo on dinner with you…that’s going to activate his fear as in his mind, it threatens his ability to take care of himself. He has tangible, physical evidence of his money going to YOU and that is what he has control over. I know you contribute quite a bit as well and he is not acknowledging that (it’s not tangible or in his face), which is frustrating, but you will NEVER win against a person’s fear that is running their life. The fear is too strong and too big. So your choice, if you want to stay with him, is to honor his fear and go 50/50 with everything. That means, every grocery bill, all the gas, all the expenses that you fork out for him, give him a receipt. If he wants to cut out weekly dinner, suggest going grocery shopping together and make a simple meal at home. Money is a tough topic for sure, but what is most important here, is that you honor his fear. Your belief that a man should be able to take out his girlfriend once a week is something that is going to have to be tabled – OR – you find a guy who has no issues doing that. If you want to stay with him, sit down with him and talk about how you guys can move forward with money that makes him feel comfortable. Find a way to be on the same page. And then if you want to spend more money by buying groceries at your vacation home, then you get to do that. But he needs to feel comfortable with where his money is going and he needs to feel you not judging him for how he wants to spend his money. Again, this has nothing to do with you. He is just trying to set himself up for success, so help him do that.
Am I trying to change something in him that may not be changeable? I know you can’t change anyone unless they want to. Yes, you are trying to change something that cannot be changed by you. He is who he is Ladan. You keep chasing after him, wanting him to care, wanting him to be more emotional, wanting him to be more for you. This is dangerous because all of your needs are chipping away at his self-esteem and would easily activate his walls. What he is hearing is “I’m not enough for you” AND he has no skillset, accountability, knowledge or understand of the dynamics of what is happening. He is designing his life with fear running the show. He is constantly thinking about what and how to keep himself safe emotionally and financially. He is not going to change. The only way for him to change is to get some help and do the deeper work to face his hurts and fears. From my experience, if someone hasn’t taken that path by now, then they probably never will. It’s just not who they are or how they approach life.
So I want to ask you some questions now.
1. You want intimacy, yet you have chosen to stay with guy who doesn’t know how to provide that.
2. You want deep connection and conversation, yet you have chosen to stay with a guy who doesn’t feel safe offering that.
3. You want vulnerability, yet you have chosen a guy who made a commitment to himself to never be vulnerable again.What is happening within YOU, that you invited a man into your heart who doesn’t have the ability to care for it? He is emotionally unavailable, yet you still stay with him. I know you listed his wonderful qualities, but as you are experiencing, his limiting qualities are breaking safety and trust, so that means his great qualities are not enough.
Here is an analogy I like to use: Imagine you are going to bake a cake. I give you all the best, highest quality ingredients possible. I give you an award winning recipe for this cake. BUT…I also give you 1 cup of poop as part of the ingredients and tell you to make the cake with this, no exceptions.
That 1 cup of poop is strong enough in its texture, flavor, and smell that it impacts everything. There is nothing you can do to hide that poop in the cake. You can make the cake look beautiful, but the taste is ruined. This is what it’s like to have a relationship with someone who is emotionally unavailable. There are a lot of wonderful qualities, but the limiting qualities are dysfunctional enough, that it impacts every part of the connection. And you end up spending hours and hours and hours in the kitchen, trying to make that cake work. As a Coach, what I would encourage you to do, is to accept that you are powerless. You cannot make this cake what you want it to be, because you cannot change the poop that is an unchangeable ingredient. In that powerlessness, you can become empowered by accepting what is, put down your cooking utensils and walk away from the kitchen. And walking away from trying to “fix” this cake means you will hurt and have to let go of a dream you created around having this amazing cake – AND – you will heal and open your heart again, making a better choice next time for your heart.
Thoughts?
Heidi
but I sensed also that if I said no to that he would have left me standing alone in the middle of that area, which would have triggered me to have a PTSD disassociation and been more embarrassing than just going along as if I was on board with holding hands. You don’t know if that is how it would have played out. It’s possible, but it’s also possible that something else could have happened too. You have to get to a point where you are in enough pain from all the rejection and low level connections you say yes to, that you make a different decision.
There are many ways to deal with PTSD reactions to help yourself through challenging moments. I had so much PTSD that I had to develop a skillset so I could support myself whenever I was triggered, which happened A LOT! I had a major disability and like anyone with a disability, I had to figure out ways to rely on and support myself, especially when there was no one to help me. And now, I feel completely self sufficient and empowered. I can be myself, even when I’m triggered, and know how navigate it. There is always a choice. You will strengthen yourself every single time you make a choice that keeps you in your integrity instead of betraying yourself and going along with a situation that goes against what you want. You are so concerned about what everyone will think about you, that you abandon yourself. Again, you say you don’t understand why this cycle continues, but if you look at how you treat yourself, you will find that answer. My therapist tagged me with a truth that I’ve never forgotten. You cannot expect someone else to do for you, what you are not willing to do for yourself. Translated to your situation…you cannot expect other people to care for you, honor your feelings, listen to how you feel, value what you say, when you don’t do that for yourself (I’m speaking specifically when it comes to relationships, not your whole life in general).
I am always alone wherever I go, while those who have lied about me are always with people. Comparing is REALLY dangerous. You are looking from the outside as if companionship is all that matters and that’s not true. I personally would rather be alone than to have companionship with people who gossip, are destructive and harmful. People like that are really unhappy people. “Like attracts like.” So they are all friends because they are at the same level of functioning. They approach life in similar ways, they deal with stress in similar ways and they are harmful in similar ways. They all may be friends from your viewpoint, but I guarantee you that their vindictive, passive-aggressive behavior they have towards you, they also will have towards anyone else in their life…you just don’t see it or know about it.
I also wanted to say one more thing. You said that you don’t know how to say no, but you said no to me. You did not resonate with my coaching before and you still don’t and you made that very clear. How that might have affected me, didn’t matter enough to you to stay silent about what you wanted and needed. THAT choice, THAT feeling you had that brought you into action to ask for Spyce, THAT desire to get your needs met IS what it looks like to honor yourself. You did exactly what you needed to do, despite my feelings. So you have it in you! Now you need to cross that over into the relationship category. You are a very strong personality Jadene, but you end losing yourself when it comes to men. I understand you have a lot of PTSD, so maybe it’s time to clear all of that, so you can start to feel your beautiful strength, no matter the situation you are in.
Heidi
I hope it’s okay that I answer again.
Like I don’t understand the mechanics of saying no. I understand and I love that you are asking this question. It’s actually quite a common question that comes from women, as females have been taught to be a very specific way in the world for a very long time…and saying “no” was not part of that programming. Regardless, let’s start with your idea of what it means to say no.
I just don’t understand why I don’t have the option to state a boundary without being abused or abandoned. This breaks my heart that this has been your experience. I felt this the majority of my life growing up. Thank goodness I had a very strong mother in my life who got me help with an amazing therapist when I was in college. She taught how to say no and most of all, that it was okay and my right to say no.
Here is another truth that took me a while to feel okay with and embrace that saying no was okay…any person’s negative reaction to my “no” is about THEM and has nothing to do with me. If someone has trouble with my “no” then they are more interested in their own needs than caring about mine. For me, that is an immediate sign of someone who is incredibly fragile, selfish or narcissistic and/or has a very high need for control…no matter the reason (which really doesn’t matter) it is someone I am not interested in interacting with. Their abuse or negativity is not for me to deal with, try and fix, or change. My job is to get away from them as soon as possible in order to protect myself from someone who is wounded and harmful. Their feelings are not my responsibility and it’s not my doing. The reactions someone has to my “no” comes from woundedness that was there waaaaaay before they met me, so that’s why it’s okay to be okay with letting someone deal with their own baggage without me stepping in trying to fix or change how they are feeling.
Saying no can be graceful and respectful at first. If someone keeps pushing, saying no in a more firm way is required and if they still are not respecting your choice, get away from them. I remember in college, a cop came and talked to all the female athletes. It was a talk about rape and the signs to look for. I was shocked because what he said, had happened to me a gazillion times, but I never gave it a second thought. He said one of the first signs of a guy who carries the “potential” to rape is a guy who ignores your “no” even once. He said even the smallest thing like a guy putting his hand on your leg at dinner, and you say no, and he tries again later…THAT was a sign of a guy who is not truly listening, respectful and has his own agenda. He carries the “potential” for rape. Back then, I thought that was a bit extreme, but having lived life more, I now realize the level of truth he was saying. The bottom line truth is, any person who does not respect and honor your no, they are dangerous on so many levels. Bottom line is, they are someone who is not capable of truly caring about your needs, so regardless, they are not a safe person to have in your life, because they do not respect boundaries.
A huge part of it too is not wanting to be rude or mean. I get it. Maybe think about it this way…isn’t it rude and mean how that guy treated you? So why is it okay that he treats you that way and use you for anything he could get from you, but it’s not okay for you to say no and have a boundary? Instead, it’s 100% rude for someone to ignore your no. It’s 100% disrespectful for someone to dismiss your no, fight against your no, criticize your no or anything of the sort. This type of thinking that it could be rude or mean to say “no” is all about THEIR feelings with you entirely excluding yourself from the equation. Wouldn’t you say that it’s mean to YOURSELF to say yes to being treated the way that guy treated you? So basically, you are more concerned about how HE would feel than your own well-being. Truly loving and supporting yourself means you NEED to say no, in order to protect your heart, your spirit, your energy and your well-being. There is NOTHING rude or mean about that! When is true self-love ever rude or mean?
I’m going to share a fundamental truth that may be hard to embrace. I know when I was first confronted with this, I had quite the wrestling match with my therapist. It turns out, she was right. We allow others to treat us the way we feel about ourselves. It was hard for me, because I had worked really hard to like myself and felt like I had a lot of good self-esteem. However, in the love department, I still had a lot of work to do and my experiences reflected back to me where I was still struggling. My guess is, this is part of why this pattern keeps showing up in your life. You value how someone else feels more than valuing how you feel. Your feelings matter less than the other person’s feelings. So fundamentally, you are treating yourself the same exact way these “low level” guys are treating you. They don’t support or value how you feel, which mirrors exactly how you treat yourself… you are not giving yourself permission to say no, to feel what you want to feel and have that be okay, even if it opposes the other person.
I do not understand the specific mechanics of exactly what I was supposed to do and say. I just don’t understand. I’ve never seen it modeled and it makes no sense to me. I had the same question too. When I first started saying no, I was quite messy with it. My therapist at the time, gave me an incredibly challenging assignment. Before learning the “mechanics” of how to say no, I had to just get comfortable with saying no in the first place…WITHOUT explanation. If I felt the smallest amount of “no” energy in response to someone asking something from me, I HAD to say no. The first step is feeling okay with the word. Until then, the mechanics of saying no don’t matter, because it’s less about what you say and more about the energy behind the delivery. So…it took me a handful of months to practice the word no, because I had to face A LOT of irritation, frustration, disappointment, and anger. BUT…eventually I got more comfortable with it. Every time someone got upset with me, it gave me the opportunity to practice letting THEM take care of their own feelings instead of stepping in and trying to rescue them and fix how they feel. It was soooo hard, but I shifted. Then…saying no was not so scary. Saying no was 100% okay. Saying no was my right and I owned that right. So basically, I went from 1 extreme of always saying yes, to the other extreme of saying no A LOT, and then I found the balance. That is the gift of extremes…you cannot find the middle of extremes until you know each end of the extreme, right? That’s why my therapist asked me to go the extreme of saying no all the time. For many years, I was so used to ignoring my internal no, that I barely recognized my “no” energy.
So for right now, I would suggest you start to more deeply look at your relationship with the word no. One thing I did, was watch a lot of movies with strong female characters, standing up for themselves, fighting for themselves, fighting for what they wanted despite all the obstacles. When there are no real life role models, you can always find them in movies.
But, just for an example, a way you could have set a boundary with that guy, is once you got inside, enjoyed some dances with him, but then the moment it started to head into a direction you didn’t want, you say “No thank you. I’m not interested.” It’s clear, direct and strong. When women try and be nice and fluffy with their “no” they are not taken seriously. Again, it’s about the energy behind the delivery, more than the words. When I want a guy to truly hear me, I make eye contact and say clearly “No thank you.” That’s it. The eye contact is important because it delivers the answer with confidence and certainty. I’ve been called rude, abrasive, mean, uptight, told I need to have a drink etc. Of course it sucks for a moment to hear those things, but I quickly get myself connected back to the truth…their feelings and story about my “no” just reflects THEIR baggage that has NOTHING to do with me. My story and truth I choose to connect to is that I am THANKFUL and GRATEFUL I said no because that person just showed me they would not have been a safe or caring person to have in my life. I have every right to say no and how someone else reacts is THEIR journey – my journey is to love myself and stay connected to myself if they choose to be rude or critical in return.
I shared a lot here, so let me know if you have more questions.
Heidi
Hi Jadene
I will make sure that Spyce chimes in and takes over, as I know you don’t really resonate with me and that’s okay.
I just want to say something to what you are asking: Why in the world am I seen as somebody who can be treated like this or taken so easily or whatever, while the upstanding man doesn’t see that I’m one of the highest quality women in this town? I don’t totally understand this recurring cycle. There are many things that influence why cycles keep showing up in our lives, but I have found that if it keeps showing up, I haven’t learned everything I needed to learn from it.
With this last guy, you participated in HIS design instead of holding to the standards of what you actually want. I just did my own thing and remained receptive to him, because it felt nice to be pursued and attended to I understand it feels really nice to be pursued, but there is something you may want to consider…you complain about the “bottom feeders” yet you choose to be receptive to them because the attention is more important. This can be part of why the cycle keeps happening – when you say yes and engage in the attention/intimacy with someone who does not hold potential for you – you basically are saying “I will choose any attention over my standards and what I want for myself.” I know it’s only one night, but is a pint of ice cream just one night, okay for someone who has the goal of losing weight? Yes, of course it’s okay AND it’s a choice that is impactful and has consequences. It’s a choice that goes against the goal. Each time we make a choice that goes against what we want, it actually reinforces what we don’t want.
Do I have to keep going to events alone, standing alone, looking at the band only, not making eye contact with anyone, hiding my misery? It seems that you feel like going alone would be worse than dealing with a drunk guy who treats you like crap, expects to get laid, and doesn’t have the capacity to care about you on any level. Is being alone more awful than that? It seems you pair being alone with misery. At the same time, you keep saying yes to these very low level interactions which is adding to your misery too. Maybe explore your choices?
I’ll leave it at that and hope this helps at least a little.
Take care Jadene!Heidi
Wow! I’m impressed with how grounded you are. So many people fight against what is happening and are only interested in ways to change it or fix it. It’s a rare person who accepts what is happening. Well done! That’s a testament to your self-esteem.
I totally agree…with him recently exiting a tumultuous relationship with the baby mama, it doesn’t sound like he was ready and may have had a “rebound” kind of energy to it. It makes a little more sense since he said it was an “irresponsible” choice. His mindset definitely is not in the space to be in a relationship.
That is so exciting about the job opportunity!!! Are you going to take it? It is always very helpful to have a really exciting new adventure after a breakup. It helps to bring new life and new vision into what else is possible.
Also, do you think it’s a bad idea if eventually (definitely not now or in the near future) I bring up what you said about his fear of happiness to him? It depends on the kind of relationship you guys create down the road. Whenever I am wanting to share ideas or guidance with someone who I don’t feel I can be direct with, I will use myself as the example in casual conversation. So you might say something like, “I learned something really interesting the other day! It’s crazy to me, but I’ve seen myself do this and I’ve seen other people do this as well and it makes so much sense now. I learned that we have a limit to how happy we will allow ourselves to be….” This is typically the safest way to share something. Otherwise, people typically do not take kindly to someone pointing something out in them. Everyone is different though. Just use your instincts and if you somehow upset him, you at least planted a seed and learned that he maybe is more fragile than you thought. Does this help?
Heidi
Hi Brandy,
Wow. I’m so so sorry for what you are having to deal with. Your poor heart. Of course you are confused and have anxiety about all of it. I would say it’s pretty normal, considering he is stonewalling you.
I’m trying to play it cool because , I don’t want to pressure him, I know he is going through a lot I personally do not use the excuse that someone is going through a lot, as a green light to treat me bad. We ALL go through extremely difficult times in our lives and it’s how we choose to navigate those times, that is the real test of our character. So far, your guy is showing you that he thinks it’s okay to stop communicating and completely cut you out of his life..without a single word, without helping you understand what he needs, without considering how it would affect you. This is the type of behavior that sabotages and ruins relationships. It’s not okay. You are acting as if you did something wrong. Maybe you did, maybe you didn’t, but regardless, a GOOD partner TALKS about it. So to leave you completely in the dark is NOT okay.
Research has shown that it’s how we treat each other in the worst moments, that determines the success of a relationship. Your guy is not someone who can sustain a healthy connection. His coping mechanism is to shut down, abandon you, abandon himself and leave. He has already done this once, he is doing it again and he will do it again at some point. His behavior completely ruins trust and emotional safety and when those are not solid in the relationship, the foundation of the relationship is compromised.
So you have a choice here. YOU get to decide how you are treated. What you are teaching him, is that he can disconnect for as long as he wants and you are still going to be there whenever he feels ready to come back. Is that what you want to teach him? There are no consequences for him, so why should he do anything different? It doesn’t matter what his reasons are, it’s no excuse to treat someone with such coldness. So you can wait until he decides to come back and move forward or you can set some boundaries for yourself. The thing is, you have to be willing to lose him and you may not be ready for that right now. I know it would be a big deal. But the choice here is…love yourself enough to have a standard as to how you are treated, or don’t have a standard and be treated this way. This is more about your own self-love. We are the ones who teach people how to treat us. When you have standards, that means that people who don’t align with your standards, don’t get to be in your life…no exceptions.
You are of the mindset right now that somehow you are the cause of his behavior instead of having the mindset “I will not accept being treated this way, no matter what he is going through.” But like I said, if you don’t accept it, that means you risk losing him, because the reality is, he will do this again and again and again unless he really faces how damaging his actions are and makes some changes. So you get to decide what you want to do.
Here is an article about stonewalling: https://www.gottman.com/blog/help-someone-told-me-im-stonewalling/
This article explains what it is, but the difference is, your guy never talked to you about what’s happening, it’s lasting for an extended period of time and you have no clue what is happening. That is what is making your situation more harmful than anything. Your guy has a coping mechanism to not communicate, disconnect completely and who knows for how long and then he will return whenever he feels like it. This is a coping mechanism that will be the demise to any relationship he is in. It’s not okay. It’s harmful, it’s uncaring, it’s toxic, and as you are experiencing, it truly is awful to be on the receiving end of it.
I know I’m coming across a bit strong and I hope that’s okay. It’s truly awful what you are going through and my heart goes out to you. It’s time for you to get tough and set some boundaries and standards that are loving to yourself. I know what he is doing, as I used to do it all the time. I was sooooo wounded and emotionally fragile and it came out in such toxic and harmful ways. The best thing anyone ever did for me, is set boundaries and consequences for me, so I had to LOSE something for my behavior.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Matea!
Welcome! We are glad you are here and sharing your questions with us!
I’m so sorry this happened so suddenly. It’s always really difficult when we don’t see it coming. You guys have liked each other for a very long time! I’m wondering what took so long for you guys to get together. I’m curious…what happened that you both finally decided to move forward?
He said our relationship is the first healthy relationship he’s ever seen or been in, and he just has no idea how to be in one. It sounds like he has a lot of fear. I know this is a strange concept, but it’s a very normal thing we all face…when we actually get what we want, if we are not emotionally set up to be happy, we will sabotage it. I see it aaallll the time. I’ve seen it in myself as well. It’s called the “upper limit.” It’s the limit in our psyche that determines how happy we will allow ourselves to be. What determines that limit, is how much low self-esteem / fear we carry. The more fear and low self-esteem, the lower the limit. The only way to increase that limit, is to face our fears and face whatever caused our low self-esteem. It’s a path rarely taken, because it’s very uncomfortable and hard, but very do-able. It sounds like him feeling happy with you was a trigger that activated his fear and shut down his system. When this happens, it’s very normal to look for things that are “wrong” in the relationship or wrong with the other person in order to “justify” the fear. So him saying that you needed to get your career and yourself figured out, is his “justification” as to why it won’t work…along with all the stuff he is dealing with as well. You both are soooooo young, that having yourself and your career “figured out” is quite unrealistic.
From everything you said, he just seems really overwhelmed and his solution is to just not be available for you in the way you need. For a guy especially, when his life is not figured out with work and this kid (both are a lot to deal with), cutting out a new girlfriend helps him feel less pressure. Men typically operate very differently than women in this department. We are much more oriented towards relationship and think “I am having a hard time right now, so I’m going to want support.” Men think “I’m having a hard time right now, so I want to go into my cave and figure this out and not be bothered.”
As far as how much time you give him, there is no way to really know. I do suggest that you move on with your life. When you wait…you are putting your life on hold for someone who many never change his mind. This is not good for you. I always tell people, move on with your life and grieve the loss. It doesn’t mean the door can’t open again. It just means that you are accepting what is happening RIGHT NOW and building your life around that, instead of building your life around “potential.” Accept he is not ready right now and face your broken heart. Then you can stay connected as friends, open your heart to other possibilities and who knows…the possibility of him may circle back around again and you guys can start fresh.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Sarah,
Welcome! It sounds like you are really hurting and confused. One day things are going great and then it took a very fast turn into an ending. It sounds like you guys were having a really great time together, so that makes it even more difficult to have things end so fast. I’m so sorry for what you are having to feel right and go through. It’s so incredibly challenging to have a broken heart.
There is a lot to talk about here, so let’s work through this all slowly.
The first thing I want to say, is you BOTH moved pretty quickly with this connection. The amount of texting, gifts and future talk was quite extensive considering you just met each other.
When I spoke about other guy friends I had who liked me or had previously liked me, he expressed jealousy. He expressed concerns about STD’s, and said things that made me feel like he wanted monogamy. This is also a red flag and NOT a sign of caring about you. Jealousy is about feeling insecure which activates a high need to control. For example, him getting upset because you had plans that prevented you guys from hanging out, is a controlling type of reaction, NOT a reaction showing you he cared about you. I’m not saying he didn’t care about you. I’m just saying you are interpreting some of his reactions that are BIG RED FLAGS, as a sweet and caring thing, when in actuality they are reactions showing his insecurity and need to control.
I feel deeply heartbroken, depressed, and attached to this guy, and I can’t let him go. I’ve tried sleeping with other people, and it’s not working (in the past it has). I can’t get him off my mind. The entire thing blindsided me as I thought everything was perfect This is so hard. I get it. You deeply invested in him and it’s going to take some time to heal.
Please help me get him back. I feel desperate, and will do anything it takes. This is a dangerous energy to be leading you and here is why. Desperation is more about getting out of pain by re-connecting to him and NOT about facing what has happened. Desperation causes us to make decisions from a very limited viewpoint. The only viewpoint you have right now, is that he was perfect for you and you want him back. If you were not desperate to stop hurting, you would be able to see the MANY red flags here and that he is actually NOT the guy you believe him to be. Yes, he is great AND he terrified, hurting and blaming YOU for moving things along too fast, when he participated in all of it 100%. Where is he taking responsibility for his part in this?? This is also a MAJOR red flag when someone points the finger and blames. From everything you told me, this guy is NOT set up emotionally to be in a relationship. He has so much fear, is emotionally fragile and is right…he needs to work through his past baggage. He not available for you and never was. This baggage he is carrying, has been there all along, but you both got swept away in all the romance, the gifts, the sex etc. that there is NO WAY for you to have seen any of this. This is why developing a connection SLOWLY is really important. It allows you to see the FULL picture first with the mindset of REQUIRING the other person to earn your heart, earn your attention, earn your respect, earn your time etc.He is also correct in that it is a red flag that you were willing to plan your whole future around him and you barely know him. You guys were not even in a committed relationship and the future talk, between both of you, was not appropriate for the stage you guys were in.
I know this is not what you want to hear right now. I know that the desperation to get him back is all consuming and that’s all you can think about. I know you are deeply hurting, so really letting what I have said – which is not about getting him back – into your mind and heart, is difficult.
The reason I have said everything I have, is because you are sooooo attached to one idea of him and not seeing the WHOLE person that he is. It’s like diving off a cliff, not knowing what’s beneath the water.
Your heart is sacred Sarah. It special, unique and deserved to be honored, respected, cared about and valued. To give your heart so fast and so freely, is NOT protecting yourself. It’s incredibly important to be discerning when getting to know someone. I use this analogy: Imagine you are the CEO of a company – the company is your heart. It is YOUR job to make sure that every single employee that is part of your company, is like-minded, supports your company, is invested in your company and truly becomes a part of the company. THAT TAKES TIME! Dating is the interview process. As the CEO, would you hire someone for such a valuable and delicate position after 1 or 2 conversations??? Even in the real world, when a company is hiring for a top level, important position, they do research first on the candidates. The candidates have to go through 3-4 interviews, the candidates start on probation so to speak and there is quite a process before someone is hired. With dating, it needs to be the same exact approach if you are going to find a good match. SEVERAL interviews, many dates to see them in different types of situations, a TON of conversations and so much more.
With how fast you rushed into opening your heart to this guy, I am wondering if this is a pattern or something new for you? Is this how you typically date? It sounds like you tend to have more sexual arrangements with guys vs. dating them and getting to know them. Yes? No? If yes, what’s the purpose in this design?
I’m in complete denial, feel such a deep shame What is this about? What do you feel ashamed about? If you were honest with your friends and family, what are you afraid they will say? You need them now, more than ever. You are hurting and need support. Are you not willing to let them into your life and help you right now?
Heidi
