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I can’t get him to work on his own baggage but I can at least focus on mine and myself. Well said! I love that you are able to embrace and align with this. So many of us put in an incredible amount of effort trying to change the other person so we can stay in relationship with them. I’ve done that soooooo many times and not once, has it resulted in anything long term. A person needs to organically WANT to grow. A person needs to take their own action for healing and learning and someone who does that, has something very natural inside of them that motivates them. That’s what I always look for…do they have something inside of them that inspires them to learn and grow ON THEIR OWN, without me or anyone else trying to motivate them.
We all have baggage but it’s what we do with that baggage that will make us successful or not, available or not, healthy or not with love and connection.
Heidi
Hi Brittany!
Trying to explain things on this forum can be difficult sometimes.
Let’s maybe talk about the main thing that you said he expressed to you a handful of times in different ways: but that he again felt like he was leaving me waiting around for him and that I’m too good and shouldn’t have to wait around on anyone which is leading him to feel really bad again. I know this triggered you into thinking that maybe he wasn’t interested. First, it’s important for you to recognize when you are triggered and go take care of yourself and NOT rely on him to make you feel better. Your trigger has to do with the past and is your baggage, so by putting the pressure on him to fix something, within you, adds a lot of stress to a relationship. The goal when there is a trigger, is to identify the true source of your feelings and work on it yourself and not expect or ask the other person to help you feel better. That’s a skill that is so important to develop for healthy relationships. I’m happy to share more about this, so just let me know if it interests you.
With the statement above, he is feeling low self-esteem because of his baggage. He also is in a trigger and not handling it well. He uses these feelings as a way to put distance between you and him. It’s sabotaging the connection when he says that “you are too good and shouldn’t have to wait….” He basically is overlaying his past onto the present, just like you did in your reaction about that comment. He is feeling bad, because someone taught him this along the way and he has never resolved the hurt around it. Whatever happened, it’s sourcing his self-esteem and in a very indirect way, by saying “you are too good and shouldn’t have to wait around” is a comment where he is looking to YOU to help him feel better, instead of doing that job himself. He is wanting YOU to fight for him, because he isn’t fighting for himself. This is where toxic patterning gets established…people rely on the “other” to fix what is happening in themselves, but the problem is, nothing ever gets fixed. It may feel better for the moment, because a bandaid was just put on. But eventually, those patterns resurface over and over and over again and down the road, other feelings build like resentment, anger etc.
This is not a simple fix. It requires becoming more educated about conflict, our own baggage and developing a whole new skillset on how to navigate when we are in a trigger…in a healthy way!
I’m not saying you should move on from this guy. I’m just sharing all of this so you can observe what is REALLY happening beneath the surface. Once you can understand the “behind the scenes” stuff, you can be much more effective at resolving whatever is happening.
So…with all of that being said, it’s important for you to understand that this guy does NOT have it all together and there will be a lot of challenges with him. He will look to you to fix him, help him feel better etc. because he does not know any other way to be. With that being said, if you want to reach out, what would you like to say? What do you actually want from him?
Heidi
Hi Brittany!
Thank you for sharing your challenges and questions with us! I can see why you are confused and feel stuck. There is A LOT happening in your situation, so I’m glad you reached out for help.
He expressed to me when we first started talking that he wants a relationship because he thrives when he has a woman in his life. This is a BIG caution flag. Most people would not consider this something to watch out for, but look at what he is saying…he feels like he thrives with a woman. Let’s translate that – he NEEDS a woman to feel like he can thrive. He wants a relationship so he can feel like he is thriving in his life. Another way to view this is….he is looking for the relationship, the woman, to be his source so he can thrive. In his statement, he wants a relationship so he can use it for his own well-being instead of wanting a relationship for what it’s really meant for….growth, expansion, love etc. This kind of mindset is basically relying on the outside world to help him feel better about his inside world…and someone who views relationships/love that way is someone who is incredibly fragile and high maintenance.
I feel like I didn’t give him the opportunity to succeed. I’m so glad you learned a lot and were able to look at how you could have show up a little better. However, you are NOT and NEVER WILL BE responsible for him feeling successful. He is a grown man and can take care of himself. He can take opportunities for himself and doesn’t need you to give them to him. Your mindset here basically puts you in the mother role and him the child. You are saying “He doesn’t know how, or cannot get his own needs met, so I must do it for him.” That is ONLY true between parent and child and NOT true for 2 adults. You are NOT responsible for his well-being.
I know I have a lot of trust issues when it comes to men because of all of my past relationships. You must have been through quite a bit in your past relationships. Love is super tricky and hard and unfortunately, we end up learning quite a bit through the messiness and challenges that love presents us with. I want to give you a different perspective on trust. Trust begins with you. I hear all the time, “I don’t know if I can trust him not to…..” The truth is though, even someone you feel completely safe with and trust implicitly, will break the trust because they are just human. We all have limitations and we all are going to mess up. So…the most powerful and truest trust lies within your relationship with yourself. Trusting yourself is the key to feeling safe in your life and in relationships. Someone who truly trusts themselves say “I trust in myself that no matter how this other person acts or behaves and no matter the choice they make, I will be okay. I trust I am resilient. I trust I will heal. I trust I know how to care for myself through every disappointment.” If you don’t feel this way about yourself, then it’s a great place to start exploring where the holes are.
I’m stuck trying to decide if I need to persist at the romance, accept the friendzone, or walk away completely. And if I accept the friendzone, I honestly don’t even know how to squash my feelings. There’s only 2 choices here. Stay and keep fighting for this or walk away. There is no possible way for you to be “friends” while there are still feelings. I have tried that so many times and it NEVER works, because the feelings will just continue to be fueled by the connection. The only way to truly squash feelings is to step away completely, go through the hurt and pain of the loss and then come out the other side. Once your feelings are gone, THEN there is the possibility of being friends.
I know you feel this connection could really go the distance. Here is what you REALLY need to look out for, moving forward. Research has shown that what makes or breaks a connection, is how people treat each other in their worst, most stressful moments. Think about it…the good stuff is amazing, but then when stress shows up and someone ghosts, criticizes, blames etc. no matter how great the connection is, emotional safety and trust are broken. Over time, the broken trust and safety will ruin even the best of connections. So it sounds like no matter how great things are, this guy’s response to stress was to shut you out completely. Why he is stressed doesn’t even matter. What matters is how he is handling it. And what he is showing you, is that with the right kind and right amount of stress, he will shut you out. This is his coping mechanism. I have that same coping mechanism. Our coping mechanisms are with us forever. However, learning how to manage that response is what can change over time. Even though I still want to shut people out as my response, I know how to self-soothe, self-love, reach out for accountability and stay connected. It took me a lot of work to get to this point and I imagine this guy is not that type.
He also may be dealing with the loss of his wife still. I know this may sound strange, but it’s not uncommon for a widower to ruin a beautiful, wonderful connection that makes them happy. The feeling of happiness is a common trigger for shut down for different reasons. For example, he might be feeling like he lost his wife and doesn’t deserve to be happy again. He might feel like being happy is a betrayal to her. He might feel that being happy will erase the memory of her. I don’t know the condition of their relationship when she passed, but that will also play into how he dates. It’s a super tricky, slippery kind of thing dating a widower who hasn’t worked through all the deep stuff WITH a professional.
I’ve shared a lot so far, so hopefully it’s not too overwhelming. Let me know how this impacts you and what your thoughts are!
Heidi
Hi Marigold,
Oh I’m so sorry! His response is pretty intense. It’s so sad when someone chooses to run away vs. grow. I know your heart is breaking and for good reason. You guys had a really beautiful connection, but for him…his fear is bigger than that and running the show.
If he isn’t willing to talk, there really is nothing you can do. A person has to at least be willing to connect and talk things through for there to be any potential to reconnect. He may eventually be willing to talk, but I suggest that you go silent and pull away for a while and let yourself heal. When someone is behaving like this, it’s best to just step away and let them deal with everything the way they want to. It’s also important that you don’t allow yourself to be “target practice” for him. He is angry and fearful and he took it out on you…something MANY wounded people do…they hurt the ones they love the most. So step away and wait for him to come to you. In the meantime, work on yourself. Heal the hurt he has caused, forgive and work yourself into moving on from him. Moving on doesn’t mean your paths won’t cross again. Moving on means that you are honoring and respecting his choice to close the door. Down the road, if your paths cross again, you guys can talk and see if you want to take another shot at being together.
Maybe another question to ask yourself is….is this the kind of person I want to go through life with? Even if you get back together, he will do this again and again and again. Now that you know this side of him, is it something you can accept and embrace about him? Imagine he will never change. I know the connection is pretty wonderful and you would say yes to the good things in a heartbeat. However, like I have said before, it’s the worst of someone that will determine the success of any connection long term.
Heidi
Hi Marigold!
I am so sorry for what you are going through. It’s truly awful to watch someone you love slip through your fingers and not be able to do anything about it.
Would you mind sharing more details? How long did you guys date? How did it end? It sounds like you are not entirely clear why you aren’t together and that your the toxic ex scenario is just a theory. How long have you guys been broken up?
I miss the effortless, genuine, natural connection we had. I love love love that you got to experience this with him. How beautiful!!! Of course you want this back! I want to share some research, so you understand what actually helps a relationship last. Basically, it’s the worst of a person that makes a relationship last or not last, not the great stuff. Meaning, it’s how a couple treats each other in their worst, most stressful moments, that will ruin even the most beautiful connections. It’s during these stressful times that trust and emotional safety are broken and when that’s damaged, all the amazing things do not have a healthy foundation to stand on. I know how he treated you was uncharacteristic of him, but I’m guessing you had just not seen that side to him yet. It’s probably his normal response to stress, so this is important for you to understand about him. I know you want that beautiful, effortless connection to return, but it’s also important to know that his “meanness” is part of the package. We all have coping mechanisms when we are stressed and he showed you what his is. Is it something that you are willing to accept about him? The thing about our coping mechanisms, is they will never change. It’s part of who we are forever…BUT, it’s how we manage it that will make or break a connection. For example, I tend to pull away and can be very passive-aggressive. However, I have set myself up with accountability, I’ve done a lot of healing work over the years and I have a skillset to help me manage my triggers/stress, so that WHEN I want to pull away and get mean, I can control that part of myself so I don’t cause further damage.
Loving this man, means loving ALL of him. Are you willing to accept his meanness?
Heidi
Hi Erin,
Welcome! You are asking some really great questions! I can absolutely see your confusion. It’s incredibly difficult to know where it’s your anxiety leading you vs. what your healthy needs are.
Let’s see if we can clear some of this up for you…
First, let’s talk about HIS perspective.The last time he almost started a relationship with a woman, he felt like he went too fast (it had been 3 months) and he regretted it and doesn’t want to make the same mistake. This belief that he has if FULL of fear. It’s not clear, it’s not healthy and it’s a perspective that is quite tainted. Whatever happened in his last experience belongs on THAT experience, but he is letting it lead him with you. You are an entirely different person and experience, so although he thinks he is being rational and careful, it’s coming from a place of fear and regret. There is nothing wrong with him wanting to take things slow, but when it’s clear, it looks and feels entirely different. There are no time limits, there is no “We will only hang out once a week at the most…”, there is no “I don’t want to go through what I did again.” A clear approach is someone who doesn’t need to “control” the situation. He is operating from a VERY high need to control the situation because he is afraid. So it’s important for you to understand that HIS way of moving through this connection with you, is full of junk too.
For example…it’s been 5 months and for him to only see you once a month and very rarely connect with you in any meaningful way in between…that’s called breadcrumbing. How in the world can anyone truly get to know someone intimately once a month? It would take years and even at that, the dates are limited to a handful of hours. It is NOT a design that allows for emotional intimacy and growth. Again..he is controlling the situation because he is afraid you will put him through the same thing the last woman did.
Now let’s talk about you. First, what he is offering would hardly be enough for any woman to feel like the connection is going anywhere. I understand you have an anxious attachment style, so your job is to figure out that line between anxiously attaching and what is appropriate for you.
A number of times I got upset with him about not responding to texts immediately, and after some crappy instances where I acted needy like that I finally realized I was pushing him away. First, it’s important to give a guy a lot of space and time to see what his patterns are. For example, I once dated a guy who would wait hours before responding and his response was at most, 1 sentence. I finally talked to him about it and he taught me that he HATES texting. That’s just who he was and it had nothing to do with me. My job at that point was to either accept that about him and find a different way to feel connected, or to leave. So you getting “upset” because he wasn’t responding fast enough is about YOU and not him. Whenever someone is behaving in a way that causes us upset, your first reaction needs to be “What can I do to help myself get clear right now and find my balance. What exactly is triggering me? What exactly is causing my anxiety?” A question I ALWAYS ask myself is “What is it that I want them to do for me, that I am not doing for myself?” So when he wasn’t responding to you as fast as you wanted, what was it that you were wanting from him? Connection? Well…that’s not HIS job, it’s YOUR job…and when a guy feels a woman pushing him to meet her needs, that causes a really big disconnect and for walls to go up. So I’d say it wasn’t so much your need for him to connect faster, I would say it was that you were upset about it and wanted him to change and put that responsibility of your happiness in HIS hands. That is what is “neediness.” It’s putting the responsibility of your well being into someone else’s hands and wanting THEM to fix how you feel.
My guess is, this neediness is what really triggered him into shutting down even more and limiting your interactions. However, his response is not healthy or clear either. He could have simply stated “I know you want me to respond faster to your messages. I am giving you the most that I have right now, so it’s up to you to either accept this is who I am right now or don’t accept it and find someone else who is able to match you in this way.” Or “I hear you. Here is what is happening for me…..” And then you guys could have talked about it and maybe come up with a different approach. For him to decrease his communication and slow things down, is not actually working through the differences, but instead creating a larger gap.
Basically, you BOTH are responding from unresolved wounds from the past – it just looks different.
So let me ask you this…obviously once a month is not enough for you and nor would it be for any other woman wanting to build something. So you have a few choices…talk to him about it, continue to give space and go with HIS design, or open up your possibilities and date other guys as well.
If you want to keep him in your life, talking to him about creating a new design is what needs to happen, but you are also risking losing him. You have to be ready for him not agreeing or willing to be open for more.
So what do you want from him? How often would you like to see him? How often would you like to talk?
You could approach this by saying “Listen, I know I reacted poorly before. I own that and it’s not who I want to be and I’m working on that. I deeply want to accept and respect what your needs are as well as my own. I want to let you know that this once a month with little connection in between kind of design doesn’t work for me. There isn’t enough going into our connection for me to feel like we are going anywhere. Would you be willing to explore a different design with me?”
There’s a lot to unpack, so I’m going to stop here. What are your thoughts?
Heidi
I’m so glad to hear that what I am saying is helping you! That always makes my heart feel good 🙂
You are doing a really incredible job asking for help and receiving the ideas being offered. It takes great strength and courage to do what you are doing. Sadly, it is not a path well traveled. I have lost many connections over the years because I end up out growing people who do not really have a growth/healing type of mindset. It’s been incredibly hard sometimes to lose those connections, but every time I heal, I align with healthier people. Today, the people closest to me, are high functioning, have very high EQ, they face their fears, they love deeply and when we have arguments, we work through it in respectful ways. Although I have lost many connections because of this path, the type of connections I have gained are 100x more powerful, nourishing, vibrant and deep. Keep going Samantha. You are worth fighting for, even if he or anyone else doesn’t show you that.
I know you want to “fix.” That is the beautiful side of your love and your heart. You love and care deeply. Every single one of our gifts also has a shadow side too. I am very emotionally intelligent and able to understand situations much deeper than most AND I end up “over-analyzing” sometimes or I overwhelm someone and cause them to disconnect or I express what I see and it’s not invited information…regardless of me just want to “fix” or “help” or “care” I also cause harm. It’s normal and it’s part of being human. Just stay connected to HOW you are using your gifts and ask yourself “Is it a loving and healthy thing for them AND for me to be or do…..” That is a good question to explore and guide you through this process.
Here is a beautiful story about the gift of struggle and the important role of the “observer” to just let others decide their own journey without us trying to help them:
One day, a man saw a cocoon. He saw the cocoon with a tiny opening. It meant that the butterfly was trying to make its way out to enjoy the world. He decided to watch how the butterfly would come out of the cocoon. He was watching the butterfly struggling to break the shell for several hours. He spent almost more than 10 hours with the cocoon and the butterfly. The butterfly had been struggling very hard for hours to come out through the tiny opening. Unfortunately, even after continuous attempts for several hours, there was no progress. It seemed that the butterfly had tried its best and could not give any more try.
The man decided to help the butterfly. He got a pair of scissors and tweaked the cocoon to make larger opening for the butterfly and removed the remaining cocoon. The butterfly emerged without any struggle!
Unfortunately, the butterfly had a swollen body with small and withered wings.
The man was happy that he had made the butterfly come out of the cocoon without any more struggles. He continued to watch the butterfly and was quite eager to see it fly with its beautiful wings. He thought that at any time, the butterfly might expand its wings, shrink the body and the wings could support the body. Unfortunately, neither did the wings expand nor the swollen body reduce.
The butterfly just crawled around with withered wings and a huge body. It was never able to fly. Although the man did it with a good intention, he did not know that only by going through struggles the butterfly can emerge with strong wings.
The continuous effort from the butterfly to come out of its cocoon would let the fluid stored in the body be converted into wings. Thus, the body would become lighter and smaller, and the wings would be beautiful and large.
If we don’t want to undergo any struggle, we won’t be able to fly!
Hope this helps!
Heidi
Hi Maria,
Welcome! I love that you are here exploring other opinions!
Absolutely an age gap like that can work. I want to encourage you to stay away from the “I’ll be tired when I’m 70 and he will be full of energy” kind of thinking. That is future, predictive kind of thinking and it’s not based on any kind of facts. It’s important for you to stay present and dealing with what is happening TODAY. If you guys make it that far, you will deal with it at that point. You never know what the future holds.
It sounds like the real deal breaker might be the children thing. If he is not willing to give up having children, then there is nothing you can do about that. Is he willing to let that go? Is he willing to try other options like adoption? Is that something you are open to? There are many ways to have kids in your life – I never had children, but I have a lot of children in my life through friends. I also take care of a lot of different dogs, so I get to activate my nurturing/mothering side of myself all the time.
It’s been 5 years, so I imagine you both have talked about this extensively. You guys are still together, so I’m wondering if he is willing to let the idea of kids go, otherwise why would he still be with you?
Heidi
Hi Emma,
This is an interesting way to approach this. What are you hoping to have happen? You say, “come get me when you are ready” but what about your kids? What if he doesn’t come get you?
I know you want to get away, but leaving and going to China is not going to change what is happening at home. It’s not going to heal the deep rooted issues you both are dealing with. It’s not going to change how he wants to live his life. Even if he did come get you, it won’t change that he doesn’t believe in therapy, he is going to do what he feels he needs to do for himself (travel, support the other woman, keep fighting with you etc.).
This idea sounds more like a revenge kind of thing than a choice for healing. I know you want to get away, so maybe go about it in a different way that doesn’t compromise your kids and cause more damage to the relationship. And why Asia? There are so many places you can go.
What if you said “I need to get away for a week and really think about things.” Let’s create a plan so you can take care of the kids and house. When I get back, you and I really need to sit down and decide what our next steps are going to be. I will be thinking about that while I’m away, so I’d like you to think about it as well. I don’t know what the answer is, but what I do know is that what we are doing is NOT working and we can’t keep going on like this. I have reached my limit and I’m guessing you have as well.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Samantha!
Welcome! We are glad you are here sharing your struggles with us.
I first want to say that I am so so sorry for all that both of you are going through. Losing family members that you are close to, is incredibly challenging and difficult and it changes your identity. It is a really tough situation that you both are facing right now.
It sounds like the challenges actually have nothing to do with what’s happening within the relationship, but it’s more about the stress of loss and how that is getting expressed. I”m really glad you are getting some help. That is the very best choice you could have made for yourself!! It sounds like you are really learning about the hurt you are carrying around and how that impacted your connection with him. Well done!!!
You are 100% right in that you cannot fix how he is feeling. You cannot change how he views what is happening. He gets to have his perspective and story about everything that is happening. The most you can do is offer your side of things and hope he can receive some of that. In the end though, it sounds like he just wants to retreat and that is how he wants to handle all of this. It’s a common coping mechanism, but the sad thing is, it ruins and breaks emotional safety and trust if the person doesn’t work through their coping mechanism.
He is living with a TON of fear and the reality is, that fear is in the driver’s seat of his life. It takes great strength and courage to face those fears in order to protect what he loves and values….his relationship with you. He obviously is incredibly confused and clouded by all the emotions he is feeling and he doesn’t have the wisdom, knowledge or skillset about how to handle any of it, in order to find out how he REALLY feels. He is making decisions based on fear that is consuming him. That is a journey only he can take.
You don’t want to rescue him from it either. It is sooooo so important that HE makes the choice to face his feelings. If you try and rescue him from his pain, then you are helping to create a very fragile partner for yourself. He needs to WANT to work through this differently. He may never reach that space, I don’t know. So the reality you have to face is that you are are choosing to grow and face your own stuff, but if he doesn’t make that choice, you will grow apart. You NEED a partner who is willing to face their fears, ask for help, get accountability, take ACTION instead of retreating. That is the kind of partner that will be able to stick with you through the toughest times instead of retreating and abandoning the connection.
Just something to think about with abandonment. There are 3 components to a relationship. You, the other person and the relationship connection. You and the other person create the connection and how it functions. So with abandonment, when someone leaves, they are abandoning the connection, not you. Someone’s choice to leave has to do with THEIR issues, THEIR stories, THEIR coping mechanisms, THEIR unprocessed traumas and wounds and sometimes. You are an intelligent woman, so I’m guessing you know this already, but I just wanted to re-iterate it for you. Whenever I am really struggling with someone else’s choice that is causing me hurt, I step back and remember THEY have their own journey, their own path and my job is respect it and decide if I want to to continue to connect or not, if that is even an option. Either way, trusting their process, even if it’s dysfunctional, is really important. Pain is an incredible motivator for growth, so letting go, letting him go through this hurt in the way he wants to, is important for his path. Whether he wants to grow from this or bury this, that is information YOU need to know as well, about the kind of person you want to have holding your heart.
Studies have shown that it’s the WORST in a relationship that makes or breaks the success of a connection. No matter how amazing things are in general, if a couple does not handle stressful, challenging situations with respect, connection, authenticity and a growth mindset, the foundation of the relationship is cracked and damaged and will eventually break.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Stephanie,
That’s great that you guys are able to reconnect through text at this point. I want to encourage you to keep things on the lighter side with him. It’s good that you guys are just talking about life and NOT the relationship yet. It helps to build connection again without the pressure of the tough stuff. Being that he is under a lot of stress at the moment, getting to connect and joke with you I’m sure is quite helpful for him.
At the same time, It’s also important to honor what you need as well. It’s sounds like not talking for 3 weeks was your limit. Yet, you guys are back communicating again. It sounds like you are not clear about what you really want from him and it also sounds like you are not super clear about why the breakup happened in the first place. I understand he was under a lot of stress, but I’m wondering a little more about his need to get more serious with you, especially since it’s not something you never hinted at. When you explained a little further, you said you both felt like that was too fast, so it sounds like you both were on the same page about that topic, yet you think it’s why he needed space. So I’m a little confused as to exactly why he ended things, if you both were on the same page about the marriage topic.
Either way, I think was is most important here, is that you both have a connection and still care for each other, but maybe you guys need to sit down at some point and really talk about how to share feelings with each other WITHOUT pulling away. It sounds like his reaction was to run away and this is a really big red flag. I have that same type of coping mechanism AND I have developed a skillset to help myself stay connected. If I decide to end a connection, it will be from a clear and well informed mindset and NOT because that is my coping mechanism. So it’s important for you to know that his coping mechanism is to run away and disconnect and that will never change. Our coping mechanisms, whatever they may be, will always be with us. The goal is to learn how to manage them when they do show up, so that we don’t end up causing damage to the relationship. Him running away has broken trust and safety. I don’t know your response to all of it and what your coping mechanisms are, but no matter what, if you guys want to build something more healthy, at some point, both your coping styles need to be discussed and addressed. Here are some great tips for conflict to help you BOTH understand what is happening and then how to set yourselves up for success down the road. Hopefully this link works, so if it doesn’t, just let me know.
https://info.gottman.com/relationships-and-conflict?
utm_campaign=2023%20November%20Consumer%20Campaign&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=282598051&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_WNryZBhm41UM-DbFvB5Q5ALcyDqdL_GlNIdlWFw60jE-ya-2ytp5APuRUTRAGbyCH26ZyZbyRHjcUUh5waElgn1z1lA&utm_content=282597560&utm_source=hs_email#filter=.BlogIn the meantime, I suggest continue building the connection on a lighter note. Give it some time and then at some point you can say something like “We’ve been connecting for some time now. I still have a lot of feelings for you, but I’m not sure where your head is at. I know you have a lot going on right now, but I need to at least know your mindset….I personally do not want to keep investing in the idea of you and me together, if that is something you truly don’t see with me. What are your thoughts?”
Does this approach feel okay for you?
Heidi
Hi Emma,
It sounds like he is just going to be who he is and is not interested in truly growing or changing or connecting.
So that leaves you with 2 choices. You stay and accept this is who he is. He is going to lie, he is going to travel without you, he is going to blame you for not being happy, he is going to stay confused and he is going to love you and care for you in a very limited way. If you are not ready to leave, you need to accept your choice of staying in this type of relationship that is rejecting and painful, not romantic, barely talking and a lot of fighting.
OR
You accept and honor who he wants to be…and you leave because the kind of love he offers is not enough for you anymore.
Unfortunately, either choice you make, you are facing pain and hurt. The difference is, if you stay, there is no healing. You are just going to keep getting hurt, continue fighting, continue feeling rejected and as long as you stay with him, that’s your life. There is no end to the hurt. If you leave, you will face the pain of the loss of him, but you won’t be facing the daily hurt of his choices. You will have an opportunity to actually heal.
It’s your choice Emma.
Heidi
Hi Emma,
Oh I am so so sorry you are having to feel this way. It sounds like both of you are really not getting each other. He is feeling like you hate him and your are feeling unsafe.
You both have a lot of reasons for the feelings that are present. It’s so incredibly difficult. Your heart must be breaking right now. It just doesn’t seem to be working out between you guys.
If you guys aren’t willing to get some help and have someone teach you how to move through all of this toxic baggage, then splitting up is probably going to be the next step. Being together is not working. There are so many feelings between the 2 of you and it doesn’t sound like either of you are addressing those feelings directly and working to release them. So those feelings are just going to continue to grow and be like an energetic cancer and cause a lot of harm.
I’m so sorry you are having to face this and that he lied again. It truly is awful. Feel free to come here and vent and let it all out!
Heidi
Hi Ladan!
Let’s go over your questions.
So I told myself after watching and reading some of the relationship programs that until Jan give it your all and see if it makes a change in him and if not then finish it. Am I wrong to think that? I understand your thinking here. You really want to give it everything you have before deciding to let go. A lot of people think that way actually. Sometimes it’s healthy and sometimes it’s coming from a lot of woundedness and not wanting to face the reality. The thing is, you are wanting him to change. You are wanting to fix him with your love. This type of thinking is coming from your own woundedness. If you go back to your original experiences with your parents, you would have felt like you were not lovable and never enough to get the attention you deeply craved and needed. A pretty normal response is for that child to think and be and do whatever possible to get that love from their parents. It’s what you are doing with this guy. It’s the mindset of “If I just ‘do’ something (give him space, love him more, tell him how much I appreciate him) he may change and I might finally feel love from him. It’s a formula that never works nor has any kind of sustainability to it. It may change things for a period of time, but the reality is, that is YOU sourcing him instead of him sourcing himself. Is that really the kind of relationship you want to design? You become his “mommy” and you end up spending all your energy nurturing the relationship while he is in a constant receiving state from you. You will never feel known, supported, emotionally safe and so on. This guy is no different than what you experienced from your parents growing up. Does this make sense?
I believe if he doesn’t even pay for dinner then what kind of effort and investment is he putting in this relationship. Am I wrong? Here is a question I have for you…Imagine your guy was super attentive, emotionally available, loved having deep conversations with you, was open and vulnerable and really connective and you felt completely safe with him. Do you feel that him not paying for dinner would matter as much?
Don’t they say if a man doesn’t invest with his money and time then he doesn’t really value you? Value comes in many different forms. Put yourself in his shoes for a moment. If you were facing retirement and felt that your home, your lifestyle, your comfort, your safety didn’t look so good and there was a possibility that you might have to say goodbye to everything you have created for yourself so far, wouldn’t you want to pull back financially and figure out ways to avoid that possible painful reality? Whatever his mindset is and whatever his fears are about money and his life, they are true for him. I know you believe he can afford it, but in HIS mind, he is wanting to protect himself. Is it a healthy, clear mindset? Probably not, but he gets to be that. You keep thinking that he isn’t investing because he doesn’t value you. I’m saying he isn’t investing because he is scared about his future and he is wanting to protect himself.
You have a very wounded, lonely little girl in you that is so desiring to be loved and valued and seen and fought for. Her parents never gave that to her. So she is looking for it elsewhere and picked this guy who is similar and familiar to what she knows. You are re-living your childhood through this guy. If you are interested, I can recommend a Coach who is masterful with helping people heal from stuff like this. I’m happy to send you her info. if you feel like you want to address these things.
One question I ask my clients a lot is “Is it a loving thing to do for yourself, to love this person?” Would you say that ‘loving’ this guy is a wonderful, nourishing, loving, caring, kind thing for your heart? You have this part of you that wants to “love” this guy into connection with you. He is not available so maybe if you love him enough or give him everything he needs, he will finally open up. The problem with that type of thinking, is you are abandoning yourself in the process of that…and that is what is called “trauma bonding.” It’s a love being sent out into the world sourced by trauma energy. Here is a video that talks about it….hope this helps:
Heidi
Hi Ladan,
What a beautiful name! I’m glad you are here asking for a different perspective. That says a lot about you that you are willing to learn and be guided!
I’m sorry you are feeling so disconnected from him and in a lot of fear and hurt with how he chooses to live his life. That’s tough! I will just prepare and say that you probably won’t like what I have to say, but considering your level of intelligence, I doubt I will be saying anything you don’t already know.
I feel like he can just end the relationship quite easily and that hurts. From what you have told me, I would say this is true. He made a commitment to himself to never fall in love again, he is not emotional, he doesn’t share himself with you, you are constantly chasing him for some type of connection, and the list goes on. So yes, the way he is operating, he could end the relationship more easily. That being said, it has nothing to do with you. You say it hurts, but it only hurts because you are taking it personally. Take a step back for a second and look at the bigger picture. This guy is NOT set up for intimacy. He is operating with A LOT of fear, therefore he is constantly protecting himself somehow. There is a part of him that wants to open up and connect or he would not have chosen to connect with you, but what is winning, is his fear, not love and connection. He was like this BEFORE you even met him, so this has nothing to do with you. This is about his relationship with love and the limiting beliefs that source it.
I told him I understood when you said we need to go 50/50 when we want to take vacations but I didn’t think I need to pay when we go out. I don’t think I am asking for to much. The thing is, he can afford it but he is choosing not to because of his financial goal. I understand your beliefs and you get to feel that way. He gets to feel the way he wants too. He is in a lot of fear about his finances, and looking at his budget, spending $1000/mo on dinner with you…that’s going to activate his fear as in his mind, it threatens his ability to take care of himself. He has tangible, physical evidence of his money going to YOU and that is what he has control over. I know you contribute quite a bit as well and he is not acknowledging that (it’s not tangible or in his face), which is frustrating, but you will NEVER win against a person’s fear that is running their life. The fear is too strong and too big. So your choice, if you want to stay with him, is to honor his fear and go 50/50 with everything. That means, every grocery bill, all the gas, all the expenses that you fork out for him, give him a receipt. If he wants to cut out weekly dinner, suggest going grocery shopping together and make a simple meal at home. Money is a tough topic for sure, but what is most important here, is that you honor his fear. Your belief that a man should be able to take out his girlfriend once a week is something that is going to have to be tabled – OR – you find a guy who has no issues doing that. If you want to stay with him, sit down with him and talk about how you guys can move forward with money that makes him feel comfortable. Find a way to be on the same page. And then if you want to spend more money by buying groceries at your vacation home, then you get to do that. But he needs to feel comfortable with where his money is going and he needs to feel you not judging him for how he wants to spend his money. Again, this has nothing to do with you. He is just trying to set himself up for success, so help him do that.
Am I trying to change something in him that may not be changeable? I know you can’t change anyone unless they want to. Yes, you are trying to change something that cannot be changed by you. He is who he is Ladan. You keep chasing after him, wanting him to care, wanting him to be more emotional, wanting him to be more for you. This is dangerous because all of your needs are chipping away at his self-esteem and would easily activate his walls. What he is hearing is “I’m not enough for you” AND he has no skillset, accountability, knowledge or understand of the dynamics of what is happening. He is designing his life with fear running the show. He is constantly thinking about what and how to keep himself safe emotionally and financially. He is not going to change. The only way for him to change is to get some help and do the deeper work to face his hurts and fears. From my experience, if someone hasn’t taken that path by now, then they probably never will. It’s just not who they are or how they approach life.
So I want to ask you some questions now.
1. You want intimacy, yet you have chosen to stay with guy who doesn’t know how to provide that.
2. You want deep connection and conversation, yet you have chosen to stay with a guy who doesn’t feel safe offering that.
3. You want vulnerability, yet you have chosen a guy who made a commitment to himself to never be vulnerable again.What is happening within YOU, that you invited a man into your heart who doesn’t have the ability to care for it? He is emotionally unavailable, yet you still stay with him. I know you listed his wonderful qualities, but as you are experiencing, his limiting qualities are breaking safety and trust, so that means his great qualities are not enough.
Here is an analogy I like to use: Imagine you are going to bake a cake. I give you all the best, highest quality ingredients possible. I give you an award winning recipe for this cake. BUT…I also give you 1 cup of poop as part of the ingredients and tell you to make the cake with this, no exceptions.
That 1 cup of poop is strong enough in its texture, flavor, and smell that it impacts everything. There is nothing you can do to hide that poop in the cake. You can make the cake look beautiful, but the taste is ruined. This is what it’s like to have a relationship with someone who is emotionally unavailable. There are a lot of wonderful qualities, but the limiting qualities are dysfunctional enough, that it impacts every part of the connection. And you end up spending hours and hours and hours in the kitchen, trying to make that cake work. As a Coach, what I would encourage you to do, is to accept that you are powerless. You cannot make this cake what you want it to be, because you cannot change the poop that is an unchangeable ingredient. In that powerlessness, you can become empowered by accepting what is, put down your cooking utensils and walk away from the kitchen. And walking away from trying to “fix” this cake means you will hurt and have to let go of a dream you created around having this amazing cake – AND – you will heal and open your heart again, making a better choice next time for your heart.
Thoughts?
Heidi
