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Hi Cynthia,
I understand your need to keep connecting. He has been a part of every day for the past 30 years. The idea of not having him there would mean you would feel a giant, gaping hole in your life. The idea of a life without him is scary and painful.
Your plan to want to talk with him on the weekends is actually not going to support what you want. It’s actually most likely going to make things worse. You say this, “it is me or her not both” but none of your actions support this. Your actions just keep telling him that he DOES get to have you both. By asking to connect on the weekends, you are just participating in this design of being “the other woman” even more.
You say this, “so he can see the possibilities first and really understand what he is giving up” but reality is, if he doesn’t know what he is giving up by now, he is not really connected in the first place. You want him to value you and appreciate you, but you have to treat yourself that way first. You are not valuing yourself by connecting with him daily while he is in relationship with another woman as well. You are not appreciating what you have to offer him, as you are still available for him. The moment you truly value and honor and appreciate the full depth of what you have to offer him, that means you will not offer it all so easily. This again, is about taking back and connecting with your personal power. If you want to really make him uncomfortable and force him into decision, take yourself out of relationship with him completely. Let him feel the FULL consequences of his choices. He isn’t in enough pain to change anything. He still gets to have both of you all of the time. Pain is what makes people move. Pain is what can motivate someone into making decisions. The loss of you in his life, will create a lot of pain and he has to decide what to do about that. As long as you are interacting, there is no decision for him to make.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Emilie,
As you know, it takes work to be able to handle disappointment in a healthy way. Like you saw with your friend, relationships can instantly be made or broken depending on how both people handle the let downs, the hurt, the misunderstandings. It takes self esteem and a solid sense of self to handle all of that, without getting lost in the emotions of whatever is being triggered. It’s hard to find 2 people who are able to approach life in that way. Most people want to just stay the victim and blame the other person for their hurt and want them to fix it for them. That’s a recipe for disaster! It’s wonderful to hear that your fireman guy can handle your disappointment. He definitely cares when you let him know and he makes attempts to repair it. You also have the strength to say something and be honest. FINALLY a good match so far!
I’m excited to hear about your ski weekend!!
Heidi
Hi Vino,
You definitely have grown up with some very difficult cultural programming. Every culture has this very side to it. Every culture has a definition of what is beautiful and not. Every culture carries an incredible amount of judgments. Some are obviously much worse than others and it sounds like that was your experience. It’s shaped you, yet you can set yourself from all of that programming. Everything you said about yourself and whether you feel good or not, is based on your external. That is the challenge for every human being alive. How do we feel good about ourselves, not matter what we look like? How does someone feel good about themselves, despite their deformities, handicaps, massive scars etc.? It’s absolutely possible that whether or not you believe you are beautiful by society’s standards, you can be beautiful. I remember dating a guy who would be considered ugly by most. We worked together and as I got to know his very sweet spirit and his fun nature, he became more attractive to me and I ended up really liking him. How we each see each other, is completely based on our own eyes and our ability to see and appreciate the beauty of the soul, BEYOND the physical appearance. That is where your healing will be. As long as you stay attached to the external for your definition of how you “look,” you will be at odds with yourself. It’s your insides that will ALWAYS shine brighter than your outsides, whether it’s positive or negative.
I’m surprised that is your opinion about therapists. I absolutely have my own Coach and she knows be better than anyone. No, she is not my friend as that is not her role in my life. However, she is there for me anytime I need and she has no fear about what to say to me, she has waaaaay more knowledge and wisdom of my psyche than any of my friends and she can actually help me heal vs. my friends who are supportive. Healing for me though, is far beyond talking. Talk therapy, according to just 1 study I read (which isn’t much to go on), was the least effective for helping people heal. Healing is when the negative emotions around events and memories are gone. So for example, if a girl gets raped, she is healed when she can remember the whole event and not feel any hurt about it. She just feels indifferent. She feels okay about all of it. People who specialize in healing techniques, are the ones who know how to go down that rabbit hole, deal with all your thoughts, your resistance, your patterns, your sabotage etc….not a job for friends…it’s way too personal and it can destroy friendships. There are many techniques out there like EMDR, Brainspotting, EFT, Gestalt, Sensorimotor, The Sedona Method (these are just a few of 100s of different types of approaches and techniques for deeper healing, beyond just talking).
Just some things to think about. Remember…our outside world is reflective of what we carry on our inside world. Here are just a few books that talk about how our thoughts create our reality – There is an incredible amount of research on this topic! Gregg Braden “The Spontaneous Healing of Belief” or Dr. Joe Dispenza “The Placebo Effect” or Dawson Church “Mind to Matter” It’s some really fun reading!
Heidi
Hi Sarah,
Welcome! We are glad you are here. It sounds like you have quite the challenge.
I just have a few questions, to get a bigger picture here.How long have you been together?
Is he depressed? Does he take meds?
Has he ALWAYS been like this, since you have known him?
What are you wanting to accomplish? It seems like you are quite accepting of this part of him, so I am wondering what you are wanting differently with him, that you are here and seeking more knowledge / guidance. Are you wanting a deeper connection with him? Are you wanting him to be happier in his life? Are you wanting to just learn how to support him better? Basically, what are you wanting to accomplish with this knew information you are learning?
Looking forward to hearing more details! It will help us guide you better 🙂
Heidi
Hi Daniel,
He is not really a complicated man. He sounds quite simple actually. He wants what he wants and he gets to have it. He knows you aren’t going anywhere, so he is still gonna keep talking to this 21 year old. He isn’t ready to separate from you, but he sure isn’t ready to commit. It’s simple. He wants BOTH of you. The thing that is important for you to realize, is that YOU want to save this marriage, but he doesn’t. You think this is about getting his attention back, by behaving and acting in a certain way, getting your independence back and your power back, but that doesn’t change that he is not caring for, nor protecting his relationship with you. You can become independent all you want. He may even come back, but that doesn’t change that he doesn’t have integrity. He may be an amazing man, but that is not all that he is. He is also a guy who is currently having an affair with a 21 year old while still living with you. That is NOT amazing. He is not valuing you, the relationship or love for that matter. Why would he change? He gets to have the best of both worlds. It’s really that simple. He wants BOTH of you. He knows how to keep you hooked and her hooked as well, so why change anything?? You both are agreeing to participate in HIS design, so he will keep this going as long as the both of you keep saying yes, or as long as he stays interested in this design.
Is this something you truly understand?? My point being, you don’t know what to do next, but have you thought about what would happen if you do get his attention again? Have you thought about how that doesn’t change HIM. It doesn’t change his issues, his patterns, his behaviors and how he chooses to make himself happy. If he feels unhappy again in the marriage, he knows he can go find another woman again and there are no consequences to that. Is this what you really want??
I know you want to fight for him, so your best bet is to keep doing what you are doing. He was attracted to your independence. Every time you cave in to HIS needs at the expense of your own, he will lose respect for you, knows how to react, behave and what to say to get you to do what he wants and he will just continue what he is doing. So it’s important for you to really embrace your independence, your needs, your wants, even if it makes him upset. It will force him to re-think how he is going to keep you hooked in this design. So keep doing what you are doing! Keep going out, keep waiting awhile before you respond to his messages, keep doing your own thing. I imagine at some point, if he feels like he really might be losing you, he might even use sex as a way to pull you back in. We shall see!
So what other things can you do, to create a new life for yourself? What kinds of activities? What friends have you lost touch with, that would be good to re-connect with? What hobbies / classes can you go to, that would be fun?
Heidi
Hi Nicole,
This makes a lot of sense and I am glad you have gotten so clear about all of it! I’m thinking this guy needs to stop dating the women at his work. To date off and on with this girl for 4 years and then date co-workers, he is just asking for all kinds of drama. I don’t know a person a live who wouldn’t be upset about something like that.
Either way, I’m glad you are seeing the red flags about all of this and disconnecting. It sounds like the very best decision all around. You keep the peace at work, which keeps your life on the drama free side and peaceful. It doesn’t sound like this guy is worth the trouble.
I love, more than anything, that you are seeing your growth. That is so important and something to really, truly celebrate. It’s a big deal! Whatever you are doing, is working and helping you shift your behavior so that you are choosing yourself, over a guy. That’s not easy for move women, so well done! We celebrate you as well!!!
Thank you for update!
Heidi
Hi Cynthia,
How fun that you went to the meetup! I’m glad you ended up having a good time. Doing something different is always a good thing. Even if something doesn’t turn out so well, the action of doing something different or novel is very good for the psyche. It’s actually important in marriages as well. It helps keep things more alive between the couple to do novel things on a monthly basis. It doesn’t have to be anything “crazy” it just needs to be something different compared to what you guys normally do. For example, if you never go out to eat, then that would be a novel activity. That’s down the road though. My point is, keep it up! Keep exposing yourself to different environments and activities as it will feed your soul.
Birth order definitely has an affect on the dynamics in a relationship. I currently don’t know of any articles or books that talk about that specifically. Most of the books I am connected with are about understanding the differences of the sexes and how to improve relationships. Maybe it’s time to read Men are from Mars book. Or maybe you can dive into the 5 Love Languages book. Those kinds of books will help you understand your marriage as well as give you tools about how to repair what has been broken.
It sounds like maybe you have shifted about meeting with him. Have you decided not to set a boundary about that? If so, what have you decided you want to do, moving forward?
As far as your conversation about your marriage, it sounds like that was a nice acknowledgement between the both of you and it was just left at that. Those moments can feel really nice. If you continue to meet, maybe keep creating those moments, to remind him of the good times you both had together and the best parts of the marriage that existed. You can go down memory lane of some great times together to help remind him of the love you guys share. That’s a type of technique than may be able to switch things around. At this point, your still in a tough situation in that I imagine he might feel a lot of obligation towards this woman…maybe even more than “love” because of how much loss she has gone through. If you think about it, him breaking up with her would be a very challenging thing because of how fragile she is and the loss she already gone through. You are independent and much stronger and trusts you will be okay with or without him (which is great by the way). He most likely doesn’t feel that about her, so he may stay hooked for awhile more out of concern for her and not wanting to hurt her, because he doesn’t trust she will be okay.
Do you feel this may be a dynamic affecting everything?
Heidi
ooooh! haha! I get it! You do such an incredible job with English. I’m always very impressed. I always have such envy for those that learn other languages. I started to learn French about a year ago, as I was planning a trip to France, but all of it feel through. I was thinking to still go to France, but to also sign up for a language school and do the whole immersion thing. I think French is one of the most beautiful languages! I’m not so good at language, but I would love to learn bits at a time and maybe by the time I’m 70, I’ll be fluent…lol. Besides, it’s really good for the brain!
Well…your focus for 2019 has really paid off for you. You are reaping the benefits of all the work you put into yourself and valuing yourself more. Well done Emilie. You are staring off this new relationship in a way that will allow it to have the greatest success!
Heidi
Hi Melissa,
It’s much easier said than done to “just stop doing that.” If it were THAT easy, we would all be healed by now…lol. Reality is, you are reacting the way you are for very valid reasons. You guys do have a history of certain behaviors together. You have your own wounds that are influencing your reactions AND there are some unhealthy aspect of your relationship you are having a hard time accepting and your emotional system is wanting those things to change so you can finally feel happy with him. You have A LOT that you are carrying inside of your emotional body, which is why you react the way you do. You can’t just “turn it off.” All that stuff just doesn’t go away. Again, you might want to consider working with someone on a deeper level to help you release the baggage you are carrying around inside. Your relationship will be sooooo much easier, once you release your own stuff that you are carrying around.
Either way, I’m glad that this time around, you controlled your reaction more and you just went with the flow. It all turned out okay!!! That’s good for you to experience!
Heidi
Hi Madi,
Thank you for sharing more details. This makes a lot more sense.
I’m wondering why your best friend was saying all those things to him and not you. I’m wondering where you were fighting for yourself in the relationship. All along, he never really was committed to you both through actions and words. It sounds like he always had part of his energy connecting with other women, which is a huge red flag. It doesn’t sound like he has the capability of really, truly giving his whole heart to someone.
He may say he “loves” you, but his actions are not in alignment with that. It sounds like he has all the right words though, which is what is hooking you into sleeping with him again. Actions need to support words, otherwise it’s all just words. I imagine how he treated you (whatever your friend was confronting him about) and his energy extending out to other women as well, didn’t make you feel good.
What was YOUR experience of the relationship? Did you feel good with him? About yourself? Did you feel emotionally safe with him? Did you feel stability in the relationship with him? Did you feel like you could count on him for anything you needed? Did you feel listened to and valued?
Heidi
Hi Heather,
First, be kind to yourself. Have compassion for your journey. If anything, he is giving you a gift. He is helping you wake up to how you feel about yourself. He is helping you wake up to how you are NOT respecting yourself. Many, many times, we need to learn the hard way. We need to pain to help us remember to not go there again and make those kinds of decisions that betray ourselves. Pain is a gift. Pain is such a good teacher and sometimes a very necessary teacher. You don’t need to get mad at yourself and add to the pain. The very BEST thing you can do is to love yourself through it. Be thankful for him treating you this way, so you could wake up to the choices you are making that are causing you harm. Be kind as you are just learning…that’s all. You will make harmful decisions for the rest of your life. It’s just part of every single person’s life, no matter how smart, how healed how “evolved” one is…yucky decisions are just part of life. It’s all good! What matters is how you treat yourself during those times. Stay connected to yourself. You are doing the very best that you know how and that is all that matters. You are learning and that is all that matters. You will do better next time.
As far as him playing games, I have no doubt the connection when you are together is wonderful and real for him. Regardless, he is an out of sight out of mind kind of guy with you, so that connection, when in person, is not enough. He is not able to carry that over to when you are not together and that is just not okay. It’s harmful and hurtful and it’s supposed to hurt, because he is sending very mixed messages. The only way for things to change, is for you to change and not participate anymore. Respect yourself, love yourself and choose yourself over him.
Heidi
Hi Sharon,
He obviously is triggering some very deep stuff you have been carrying around since childhood. This is a REALLY good time to feel everything you need to feel and release it all. It is soooo helpful to release old wounds and baggage! You will feel so much lighter! Have you ever worked with a therapist or coach? Is that something that is possible for you?
Here is a video that may help:
Are you journaling? How are you dealing with the emotions that are coming up for you???
Heidi
Hi Cynthia!
Thank you for the update and sharing all of this. I’m glad you are liking Helen Fisher’s book. I enjoyed that book very much as well!
One thin you need to understand that is different about men, is that it is very effective to give them concrete things to work on, in order for them to understand (generally speaking of course). So to say, “I want a better marriage” most men will look like a deer in headlights trying to interpret what that actually means. You always want to follow that kind of statement up with SPECIFIC ACTION and DETAILS about what that means TO YOU. You always want to make sure you are on the same page!!! You don’t want to just say, “I want us to communicate better” you want to finish that with “which means we need some help to learn some new skills about how we can better do this. I personally feel like I could do better by……and what I would like from you would be……” “Here is a book or a program that I think would be helpful for us to understand each other a little better. Let’s read through this together, we can meet once a week for date night and let’s talk about all of this…our struggles, our questions, our successes.”
Does this make sense?? You have to get VERY CLEAR about what EXACTLY you are wanting to have change if he is going to come back to you. He needs to agree and WANT those same changes, otherwise you guys will fall back into old patterns. It’s old, but another good book is “Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus” by John Gray.
So in your conversation, it’s about agreeing to specific ACTIONS you both will take to improve the marriage, your needs have been stated and heard as well as his and then you figure out a plan about how to work towards both of your needs.
As far as him going to her house to do everything he wouldn’t do at his own house, ask him about that. I get you are angry about that…who wouldn’t be? What if you created a safe space for him to open up with you about why? You might get some really good insight into what he was really doing, if he even has awareness of it. So you could say something like “I truly am curious and wish to understand you better. How was it helping you to go to her house and fix everything, yet you had no motivation to do it at our house?”
How does all of this feel for you?
Heidi
So what do you think helped you shift your mindset? What I’m trying to get at, is the deeper part of you that you connected to more strongly. When we want connection “at all cost” we are not loving ourselves very well. So something in you, is loving and caring and connecting to your SELF more than him. He is, of course, valuable, but you are keeping yourself as a priority as well. I’m curious if there were some realizations you came to, or some work you did with your Coach or what you did to get to this point. Maybe it was just time and you were really ready to shift and change that pattern you used to have. Just being curious…
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And you said this: “he had his wife’s best friend birthday tomorrow night so he couldn’t make it” His wife?? I’m sure that was a typo…Heidi
