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Hi Lisa,
I’m sorry to hear that it didn’t turn out the way you had hoped and wanted.
Let’s talk about some of your thoughts and feelings, as it’s important to work through those to keep your open i can’t tell you
how sad i am and how stupid i feel. It’s very normal to feel sad. Feeling “stupid” however, sounds like a belief you have about yourself. Was that something you felt a lot growing up? Did your parents or siblings or caretakers say that word to you a lot?
The thing is Lisa, dating is a very unpredictable journey and NO ONE can predict what is going to happen. I know a TON about dating and that never has changed that even if I did everything “right” that it would turn out how I wanted. Feeling “stupid” is feeling like you “should have known” somehow or done things differently and the truth is…YOU WILL NEVER KNOW what tomorrow brings…for any aspect of life. You also are operating under this idea as if you have some sort of control over the outcome. Do you think if you were more “educated” somehow, that things would have turned out differently? And if that is what you think, then I’m here to tell you, as someone who is an expert in dating – that whether something works out between 2 people is NOT determined by how well someone knows how to date or not.
Let’s talk about what you texted him…
I’m sorry that I’ve been so forward and assertive You start by apologizing for who you are. Are you actually sorry for being forward and assertive? I imagine not as you followed this statement by continuing to be forward and assertive. My suggestion is to do the best you can just being yourself and not apologizing for it. You are apologizing for who you are, which in essence is showing a lack of self-confidence. Be bold Lisa. It may scare some guys away, but it also will be VERY attractive to the kind of guy who will match you better.
The basic feeling of this message you sent was more of pointing the finger and saying “I deserve better than you.” You have used the phrase “I believe I deserve….” and what that does is basically say to the person…you are not enough for me. All the while, your actions are trying to stay connected. So it’s contradictory and it’s also carries a flavor of criticism.
A different way to say what you want to say would be “It feels like we are on different pages about what we want from this connection. It feels like I am more invested in spending time together. I want to respect the space you are in and how you feel as well as how I feel too. With that being said, I think it’s best we head in different directions. I have learned that with the right person, I am more ready than I thought to have a deeper experience…and I really love learning that about myself. It was great getting to know you and I wish you all the best!”
you know, it’s super early on but he knows enough about me to know I like making plans. He totally could have set up plans for next week sometime, and I’d have let things be & told him to enjoy his time. I think I deserve that. You are assuming quite a bit here, in the sense that you are expecting him to know you and honor that you like to make plans. Let’s look at the other side of this as well…he could say the same about you…he could say “She knows me enough to know that I don’t like to make plans.” Your thought process basically is expecting HIM to align with YOU instead of honoring who he is and how he likes to move through life DIFFERENT than you. Why should HE change to fit YOUR wants? Why not YOU change to fit what HE wants? Or better yet, truly look at the differences and either accept him for exactly who he is or go a different direction.
Again, you use the word “deserve” and I’d like to invite you to feel into that. If someone were to say to you “I deserve__________from you” what does that instantly feel like? For most people, it can feel a little like demanding. Maybe explore a different word that is actually more true than deserving….”I need__________from you if we are going to keep moving forward. Is this something you are interested in offering?” When you say I “need” you are owning it and not demanding anything from someone else. I “deserve” has a flavor of entitlement and can repel people. You absolutely “deserve” what you are asking for. But on a deeper level…you NEED it if you are going to feel nourished and connected with someone.
Now…let’s talk about his statement that triggered you. He felt like being on his own for the weekend and then didn’t set up any other plans. I would take it the same way you did where it feels like he is not really inspired to spend time with me. Not because he wants to do his own thing, but because he didn’t set something else up. So…with that being said, you are sensing this is a pattern with him and it’s not making you feel good. So instead of really looking at the fact that although you loving hanging out with him and the sex is good, he is NOT making you feel truly connected, because he is NOT making plans with you. There are a few choices you have….1. Go slower. He may be a super slow started and many guys will create distance, especially if they feel the woman is coming on too strong for them. So you could decide to match his pace and see where it goes. 2. Be more direct and talk to him about his mindset so you can have a deeper understanding about what’s happening for him. By gathering more information about his mindset, it gives you a more clear understanding as to whether that works for you or not. 3. Decide that while he is great, what he offers is not enough for you, so you move on. These are typically the 3 choices you have when you bump up against a wall with a guy while dating. Thoughts?
Maybe i was too forward? I did things all wrong. I spent a few hours swiping last night and didn’t find anybody else I was remotely interested in. I hate dating! Would you be willing to be more patient with yourself? First, do you really think you have all the power here that will make or break any connection that comes across your path??? Just because it didn’t turn out the way you wanted, it doesn’t mean it was because of YOU. And let’s play the game of “it was 100% your fault.” What I know about dating and relationships…the ones that stay together longer have a tolerance for “mess ups” and the “bumps in the road” that are guaranteed to show up during the dating process. So even if you did things differently, it DOES NOT mean it would have worked out, because HE is part of this equation as well. HE has limitations. HE has messiness too. HE has fears and beliefs that cause him to experience you in very specific ways that you have NO control over. You are NOT the almighty powerful woman who can make any relationship work out just because you think it should.
Dating is a super powerful and effective platform to deal with powerlessness, rejection, communication and so on. Like I said…it’s school and you are NOT going to pass every class with flying colors. No one does. And that’s not the point anyways. The point of this school is growing and learning about yourself. So if you are going to determine your love, worthiness, and value by how a guy responds to you or not…then dating isn’t for you. It will rip you to shreds.
So you have a choice to make here Lisa. You can take this beautiful experience that didn’t turn out how you wanted, and learn from it, value it, and appreciate it for everything it taught you about yourself. It knocked you down for sure…but so what. You get back up and you keep learning and growing. That’s what dating is for EVERYONE. I have not yet met a single person in the 20+ years I’ve been doing this, that didn’t have some serious wounds, cuts, bruises, gut punches from dating. It’s normal and it’s a powerful way to learn how to love yourself better…which in turn allows you to love someone else better.
If you would rather hold onto the pain and the perspective that you hate this “school” and you hate feeling this way, then you get to quit. You get to give this guy and this experience the power to close off your heart. It’s up to you how you want to navigate this and how you want to view this experience.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Laura,
You are not pathetic at all. You are having a very normal reaction to something incredibly challenging and stripping. He is being stripped of his entire identity by losing his body and you are being stripped of your marriage and losing him. You both are facing some of the most challenging events.
Of course you have fears. Let’s talk a little more about them.
his well-being Of course. You love him and care for him so deeply and to watch his well being start to take a turn for the worse, is also powerlessness that you are facing. There is nothing you can do to change what he has to face. You are powerless. You cannot change the trajectory of what is going to happen. You cannot change how he is going to choose to deal with all of this. The only part you are not powerless over, is yourself. It’s important that you truly embrace this fear. Yes, his well-being is going to gradually get worse. He will eventually become incapacitated and helpless. So let’s dig a little deeper. What exactly are you afraid of about his well-being?
will he miss me This is so understandable considering the choices he is making. The thing is, this fear and this feeling like you are garbage being tossed aside, is about you and a belief system buried deep in your psyche and was activated by what is happening. Something to explore would be looking at where else have you felt insignificant in your life? Look at the younger years. This is typically where those beliefs get created. Now let’s talk about the truth on this one. His choices have NOTHING to do with how much he values you. His choices have EVERYTHING to do with how terrified he is. Fear will cause people to do things FAAAAAR beyond their typical character. Like money, with enough of it, it can completely change someone.
I know it’s INCREDIBLY hard to not take his choices personally, as if there were something wrong with you that he would not choose to fight for you and instead run in the other direction. I get it. That’s why I’m suggesting to get expert help. These kinds of thoughts and feelings can really break you down. When you only have your own mind and your own perspective, especially with something this big, those thoughts and feelings will build over time and slowly steel the life force from your soul. Addictions start, depression can start to set in, choices you normally would not make all of a sudden become an option because you are angry. I’ve seen this happen over and over and over again. Protect yourself and your kids, at the very least, from more drama and chaos showing up in your life. Just a thought.
For right now, I understand you are not ready to step back. That’s okay. No one can tell you when you are ready for something like that. The reality is, you are not in enough pain to make a different decision, but eventually you will be. Either he will shift or you will shift. You guys cannot continue on the path you are on with such undefined boundaries and connection. You guys are NOT on the same page, so eventually that will win out and something will break. The goal is…to not wait until that point. It’s like a storm that is building out in the middle of the ocean. It slowly builds over time and continues to gain momentum until eventually it reaches land and creates havoc. So…you can either make some decisions now to help yourself while the storm is building out at sea, or you can wait until it hits land and causes a lot more destruction. It’s up to you.
Heidi
Hi Laura!
I am sooooo so sorry for what you are going through. You both have been through so much and there is no doubt it can create havoc if someone is not very solid inside. There is a lot happening here. Of course you are confused. Let’s see if we can come up with ways to feel more clear.
I also get confused because he told me the reason he wanted a divorce was so he could have his independence, but then he talks about remarry. This sounds quite impulsive to me. He gets a Parkinson’s diagnosis (which means eventually he will need to rely on someone full time) and then asks for a divorce so he can have his independence. Do you see the connection here? I’m guessing, in his mind, he only has a little time left to be independent, so he is “going for it while he can.” Of course how someone feels independent is going to vary, but it sounds like he has no clue what that even means to him, so he is just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks kind of approach.
Am I just something familiar and comfortable? Of course, but you are so much more than that. You have a knowing of him that is irreplaceable. There is a trust and safety that has been built between you guys over those decades that will bring him comfort. That’s pretty obvious considering how much he is involving you in his life still.
I wonder if he ever considers if he does find someone new, what has been transpiring between us will no longer happen. There is no way a significant other would be OK with it and nor should they be, even though it is completely platonic. Honestly, it feels like the divorce was more impulsive than anything else. I doubt he will find someone new, considering his age and condition….especially when he already has you by his side.
Here a more objective viewpoint…from what you have shared, he is just confused. Considering how proud and “manly” he is, he is facing a life where he will be 100% dependent on someone to bathe him, wipe his ass, feed him etc. His dignity, as he defines it now, is about to disappear. He is the caretake and now he is facing being the receiver and he is powerless to stop that.
So let’s look at powerlessness for a second. In all of my years of coaching and also my own healing journey, powerlessness is the most feared, most stressful feeling someone can have. Just look at what happened with Covid. People’s choices were taken away and they were powerless to stop it. The result? A lot of angry people, a lot of friendships ending, a lot of suicide, a lot of abuse towards each other and the list goes on. Accepting powerlessness is one of the most difficult journeys a person can take.
The most instant reaction most people have, is to find a way to get control somehow, the moment they feel powerless. They need to feel like they can DO something. So your husband got divorced. He moved. He got a job then changed his mind. He went on some dates and so on. All he is really doing, at the very core of his psyche, is trying to find a way to feel some kind of control in his life. Everything he is doing is impulsive, because he is terrified. Impulsivity is child energy. Children have no clue what they want long term. They live in the moment and do not think long term. That is what he is doing. He is in such a high stress response and has no clue or skillset about how to handle it in a healthy, adult way. So instead, he is being impulsive, looking for ways to feel control in life and doing everything he can to avoid feeling the powerlessness that Parkinson’s is slowly going to bring into his life.
For you, that means NOT investing in anything he says. He has no clue how he feels or what he wants….yet. Imagine you are talking to a 7 year old and he says “I’m going to get married to Sally.” or “I want to be an astronaut when I grown up.” You listen, you honor what feels good for him in that moment, but you also know that he is just 7 years old and he will figure it out when he is supposed to. You have no attachment to what he is saying, because he is just a kid. That’s exactly how you need to take what he is saying.
He is not the type to really get some help emotionally, so that means he will just continue being impulsive until he stops wrestling with what is happening. How long that will take, who knows. If he never truly faces this, he could end up dying a completely miserable human being and push everyone away that he loves. You cannot stop him from choosing what he wants to choose.
What you can do however, is hold strong in your own boundaries and how you allow yourself to be treated. The only thing that will give him a reality check, is to face the consequences of his choices and impulsivity. So he asks for a divorce, yet he is still in a relationship with you. So what that it’s platonic. It’s still emotionally intimate, which is the deepest level anyways. So in reality, he is not having to face the consequences of his choice to get divorced. He is reeling you back in at a level the he is comfortable with, not caring about how it is affecting you. So in essence, he doesn’t really have to face his choice of divorce and the loss of you, because he hasn’t lost you. If you were dealing with a 7 year old child going around your house and picking things up and throwing them on the floor breaking things you value, would you just stand by and continue letting him do that? Well that’s what you are doing with your ex. He broke trust, he broke safety, he broke commitment, he broke his integrity, he broke your heart. He gets to do all of that of course, but he isn’t have to feel the truest weight of his choices which is the loss of connection. No one can feel divorced or broken up, as long they stay connected on any level. As long as a couple continue to bond, neither of them can truly heal from the loss.
So you have a choice to make here. If you continue to bond with him, then you are setting yourself up for heartbreak again, because he is FAR from clear about what he wants…but the thing is, he doesn’t need to be. You are allowing him continue to stay confused. So if you set a boundary and say you are not interested in bonding with him and you truly need to accept you are divorced and you are going to pull away, that means he has to face what he is running from and stop having you rescue him.
Or…you can continue the path you are on and deal with whatever shows up when it does. You will stay in confusion, you will continue to get hurt by his impulsiveness and trust and safety will continue to be broken.
I know I am saying all of this, as if it’s simple somehow. It is simple, but far from easy. There are many, many layers involved in something like this.
What I most recommend is for you to get some professional help. This is incredibly challenging and stressful for you, so if you had someone to walk you through your situation in a more healthy, high functioning way…you will feel much more clear. There is so much happening that you don’t understand, so having an experienced person help shine the light on some things will be really helpful for you.
I am happy to send you the information of my coach. She is brilliant. She is tough, but she is always helping me connect back to the truth and operate from that place, no matter how much I resist. As long as I am willing, she is amazing at helping me get back on track and move through my life with more wisdom and clarity. Let me know if you would like her info.
Heidi
LOL! I have an excel spreadsheet because I use those phrases and quotes for my business, so I need to easy access to them. Your methods are great as well! I love how you hid them in the pages of a book or put them in a jar. I love how you just write them down and send them out into the world somehow. That’s beautiful!!!
Those kids are very lucky to have you and vice versa. It sounds like a very symbiotic kind of relationship. You are holding the space for them to be who they need to be and not forcing them into being something you want. You don’t have attachment. You are just present with them….a rare experience for a kid. What beautiful and powerful moments you are having with them!!! You are helping to change the world Vino!
Wow! Talk about a complete turnaround with the relationship with your kids. It sounds very freeing, relaxing, and full of trust and respect. I love hearing that! And now they are entering more deeply into the world of love. That’s quite the journey, isn’t it? No matter what happens, they have a mom who will be there for them and that makes all the difference in the world.
Well, it sounds like you are still in a place of acceptance of whatever is happening with JB. How do YOU feel about him? Would you say yes to being in a relationship with him, without hesitation? Either way, it sounds like what the both of you have is complete acceptance of each other. That’s unusual! The majority of my coaching is trying to get people to accept each other. That’s a tough one! I love how you got to spend the weekend with him and see what his life was like. I love that he is wanting to also come visit you. There obviously is a feeling of safety and comfortableness between you guy. I can’t believe it’s been 4 years! Well…who knows where it will go. It doesn’t matter really. You are pretty good at staying in the present moment and that’s all that matters.
Big hugs back Vino!!!
Heidi
Hi Spyce and Mary,
Spyce, there is another thread with the same topic that Mary posted under “Tricky relationship situation….” Let’s keep the conversation going on over there.
Thanks! Heidi
Vino!
Oh my goodness! So wonderful to hear from you and get an update. I LOVE all of this!
How fun that you are collecting phrases. I have done that for years. I have a HUGE list of favorite words, phrases, and quotes on an excel spreadsheet. It’s really fun and has helped me over the years.
Okay…so new everything for you! It sounds like you have found a place where you feel like you belong. Small towns can be so wonderful. I have lived like that before and there is a feeling of being seen and known that is comforting…and sometimes irritating. LOL. But all in all, I have always enjoyed smaller towns more.
So the kids think you are different eh? What’s your take on that? What do YOU think makes you different? I know you don’t know the previous people that the kids worked with, so it’s hard to know exactly how you are different, but you know yourself well. What makes you different as a person in general?
i wish more adults worked on themselves so they’d be a place of safety for all these kids being tossed about by their own dramas! Me too! But…you are helping to shape a new generation to become those kinds of adults in the world. What a powerful, influential, and beautiful thing you are doing with the love you carry in your heart. These kids are very blessed to get to cross your path. Even though you don’t feel it’s your lifelong “mission,” it’s your mission for right now. And that’s all you need to know. Your path will always reveal itself when it’s time…something you know very well by now.
Tell me a little more about your kids. Are they going to the same college? Are they living with you or at the college? How are both of them doing? I know the last time you updated me, one of them was really struggling if I remember correctly.
Congrats on the annulment!!!! That is amazing!! Yes, mission accomplished. The Lord of the Rings analogy was a great one. This aspect of your life has come full circle. You had hundreds of realizations and growth from that experience and that is the gift of all of those “poisons” from past generations that were passed onto you. You have done something quite unusual by deeply exploring, learning, growing, and being open to releasing those poisons. The majority of people do not take that path because of how hard it can be. It can be very lonely, heartbreaking, stripping, and an emotional rollercoaster ride. All of that is necessary though in order to “re-design.” You can’t release the old without replacing it with the new. I have so much respect for you and what you are creating for yourself. You never stopped learning and growing and developing your spiritual life, your emotional life, your mental capacity and your physical connection to yourself. Well done Vino!
You’ve been an integral part of my journey in the past 4 years, Heidi, and i am grateful for you. You just put a huge smile on my face. It’s always such feeling of honor and happiness, deep in my heart, when someone tells me that I have helped them along the way. So many people have done that for me, so being able to pay it forward, so to speak, is the most rewarding of anything I do. It fills my heart with encouragement and reinforces my purpose and my mission. Thank you for saying this Vino. It matters 🙂
By the way…How is JB doing? It sounds like you both are still very connected, but in what way? Friends? Possible romance? Indescribable??? 🙂
Heidi
I’m glad to hear you took ownership for your reaction and you communicated that to him. Well done!
I also can’t see why someone like him, would be interested in a single mom with 2 special needs children, and so I’m highly suspicious. So I’m guessing you will be suspicious of every guy that wants to date you then? Let’s ask this another way. Why WOULDN’T he want to date you? KNOW that the package you offer is high value for the right kind of person. Figuring out who that right person is, will take some time. A special kind of trust needs to be built slowly, on both sides. So take your time!
Although I like going out on occasion, I find “dates” exhausting. Spending time at his house cuddling up & watching a movie and having a glass of wine was definitely my speed, but is it indicative of how much effort he wants to put in? It just depends. Everyone is so different, so I wouldn’t put any meaning on this as to whether he is putting much effort in. You will know over time. He might be just as much of a homebody as you are, so that could be a great thing, right? I would say the effort needs to be more determined as to how much he likes you and vice versa as people vs. sex. This is always a very confusing thing to navigate, because lust is high in the beginning and can easily take over the dominant way that people connect. One of the best ways to know if he TRULY likes you, is take the sex out of it. Go out on dates and talk. Talk about everything there is to talk about. Laugh, support, encourage, ask for advice and so on. This allows you both to get to know each other on the truest and most important level without the distraction of intimacy. Kissing and holding hands is great, but the moment you go beyond that, it just adds a dynamic that can get quite messy. When you take the sex out of it and he still calls you, sets up plans and continues to pursue you, then you there is no question that he likes you for you and not for what’s in the bedroom. That’s so sad that your ex said that you were only good for the bedroom. He is obviously and incredibly messed up person. I”m so glad you got away from him!
I keep wondering if he likes me or if he’s going to disappear.
That’s what makes dating so daunting for me Yes. This is normal. The reality of dating is that everything could be going great and then all of a sudden, they disappear and you have no real answer as to why. Lisa, you will NEVER know the answer to this. EVER. I’ve seen couples married for 30+ years and one thing happens and they break. Relationships are NOT a guarantee. Love is a risk every single day. They could stay or go and the same is true for you as well. So it’s important to really embrace that you are just going to have to embrace that you will never know for certain what tomorrow will bring. The only true thing you have to deal with is the present moment, right? So anytime your mind starts to head into the future, in attempts to not waste your time or avoid getting hurt, remind yourself of this…you are resilient. If you made it through being married to a man like that and divorcing him, taking care of 2 special needs children AND you are open to dating again….YOU ARE RESILIENT! You know how to figure things out and get back up on your feet. Trust yourself. Trust that you are resourceful. Trust that you are a fighter. Trust that you have the strength to handle being hurt and getting knocked down and trust that you know how to get back up. Then bring yourself back to the present moment. For today, you are not quite sure about how this guy feels and that’s okay. For now, the door is open and that’s about all you know. When and if the door closes, either on your side or his, you will deal with it at that time.I know it’s daunting. Remember…dating is just school. That’s all it is. It’s a school for you to get to know yourself and develop new skills. You will be tested and fail and tested and pass with flying colors. Even knowing everything I know about dating, I still have moments of epic failure. But those moments are more a test of how well I can still love myself and choose myself and stay connected to myself, so my goal is to always pass that test, no matter what happens. That’s truly all that matters. All the other stuff leads right back to that core relationship with yourself. Does this help?
Heidi
Good to hear from you Lisa,
First, you are not doing everything “wrong.” Look at dating as a learning process. Sometimes you will be more effective and sometimes you will be less effective. It’s NOT a “right” or “wrong” process and here is why. What is “right” for one person, does NOT work for another and that is the hardest part about getting to know someone. You are going to fumble around and mess up with someone…it’s inevitable. You are going to say the “wrong” thing, you are going to feel rejected and you will reject and so on. It’s just part of the process for EVERYONE. The ones that make it through in a healthy way are the ones that don’t fight that process, they love themselves even in their less effective form, they are clear about what they need and stay connected to their standards. Everything else will fall into place or not…and accepting the outcome is important. Be yourself and let the chips fall where they may. Trust that whether this guy or another guy works or doesn’t work, it’s NOT all about you and what you did or didn’t do…it’s about BOTH people and sooooo many more things that we don’t even know about.
I always view dating as a way to get to know myself…the parts of myself that are great at connecting and also the exposure of what I call my “fault” lines…the “cracks” in my emotional system where low self-esteem lives and where I get triggered. So dating is a “school” that teaches you all kinds of things about yourself.
For example: Here is a “fault line” for you: It hurt my feelings a bit to be put in a category of “maybe”, when it comes to your time. When I read what he wrote, my first impression was, “He wants to hang out but he just isn’t sure if he can make that happen.” You had a “hurt” response and received that statement as if you were not important enough to him. You used the words “afterthought” and “booty call” which are statements showing you didn’t feel valued. This is a PERFECT example of showing you the areas in your emotional system where your low self-esteem lives. You have had enough experiences in your life where you felt like an “afterthought” that it is a button of yours. It’s a big enough button that it was easily activated from a simple statement this guy made…a guy you barely know. This is why dating is so amazing! It exposes the areas where we are disconnected from the truth. The only way this guy could have made you feel like an afterthought with his statement, is because there is a part of you that believes and feels that way and his statement just happened to shine a light on that part. Now…the idea is to learn about that part of you, work with that part of you and start to heal that part of you and get aligned 100% with the truth that you are valuable and worth knowing, whether or not someone else thinks so or not. Does this make sense?
Because I do not have that button “I’m an afterthought,” I didn’t read his statement that way. I read his statement exactly as he meant it.
I love that you were completely honest and authentic about how his statement made you feel. That took great strength and courage and it’s so important! The flip side to this is that he made you feel that way because it’s YOUR button, yet you put your feelings on him, as if HE made you feel that. The truth is, all the people in the past are the ones that taught you that, not this guy.
So a different way to respond that is about YOU owning your own feelings instead of saying “YOU” hurt me…you could have said “I’m not exactly sure what “definitely maybe” means. Do you want to see me, but you just aren’t sure?” It’s always a GOOOOOOD practice to ask someone what they meant BEFORE having any kind of reaction. Most of the time, a few simple questions to get some clarity, helps improve communication.
You also could have said “I need more of a clear yes or no so I can plan my day accordingly.”
What you want to avoid ALWAYS is pointing the finger at the other person and blaming them for how you feel. Anytime we are triggered, it’s ALWAYS being sourced by feelings from our past and the current situation just so happens to press that button. Even if you have been married for 50 years and your partner triggers you, the same guideline applies. When you have BOTH people always taking responsibility for how they are feeling, you can work through things TOGETHER instead of blaming, pointing the finger and expecting the other person to fix it. This is a pretty big topic and has a lot of layers to it, so let’s keep talking about this.
I want to take your advice by not asking anything and keeping it light, but i don’t want to waste my time with someone who is nice, but just not that interested in me. I feel like I’m doing everything wrong. Let’s talk about this further. It’s not that you don’t ask questions. You just stay away from the questions about the relationship in the beginning. The first phase of dating is just getting to know someone and really WATCHING and observing who they are. Are they who they say they are? Is this someone I enjoy and feel open around? Is this someone I feel safe with? As far as “wasting your time” I’d like to invite you to let that go. There is no such thing. Sometimes a guy might come into your life only for 1 date and that’s it. Was it a waste? Well if you view dating for sole purpose of finding a partner, then yes…you can say it’s wasting your time. But again, I’d like to invite you into thinking about dating with a much more expanded mindset. Dating is about getting to know yourself. With that mindset, there is no such thing as “wasting your time” because every single experience, every single date, you are learning about yourself, you are building new skills, you are having new experiences, and you meeting a new person. There is ALWAYS something to learn.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Mary! Welcome! Thank you for sharing your story with us. I’m deeply sorry you are having to deal with a broken heart. It’s terribly difficult to watch the person you love, slip through your fingers and there is nothing you can do about it. It’s painful, it makes you feel powerless, and it impacts every second of every day. The best part about broken hearts though, is they can heal! Our hearts are incredibly resilient, if we allow them to be.
We have a lot to talk about here, so stick with me. I know I am going to say some thing you most likely will not like, but let’s keep talking them through.
There is a perspective you have that is actually very limiting here. Your perspective is, “The only way forward is to be with HIM. The only way out of this pain, is to get him back. He is my everything and I want him back.”
Essentially the relationship ended due to my lack of communication, not allowing him to be the hero in our relationship, and not backing him up when it came to boundaries. First, it sounds like you are pretty clear about how you contributed to this ending. I’m wondering though…were these things HE said or are they things you came up with yourself? Tell me more about your lack of communication. What’s going on there? What are you not communicating about? With boundaries, how are you not supporting him? Did you keep crossing his boundaries? As far as the hero thing, you “not allowing” him to be the hero is more about your ability to receive what he offers. So what is blocking you from receiving him? What happens inside of you, that cause you to reject him? All in all, it sounds like you have a big fear of intimacy and vulnerability. Most people with this fear, have a deep core wound where they were taught in their younger years, it’s not safe to be me. It’s not safe to feel, it’s not safe to be seen or known, it’s not safe to connect to deeply and so on. Does any of this resonate for you?
Friends and family (and my own therapist!!) began attacking me, saying that if he doesn’t go back, it’s clear he didn’t want to move our relationship forward. I’m so sorry you had to go through this. Maybe you would consider finding another therapist? Your friends, family, and therapist are all viewing your situation from a very small, limited perspective that is not based in higher truths. That must have felt awful for you. What truly needs to happen here Mary, is for you to understand more deeply what is happening here, so you can create healing for yourself and start to mend the broken pieces of your heart.
sent it and FINALLY felt anxiety free! I wasn’t anxiously waiting for a reply. He read it, but has not replied as I said I would respect his space for now. But my skin is crawling and I wish to speak to him so badly!!! I’ll see him tonight at work for his last shift (we work together at a restaurant) and sprinkle in compliments. This is something for you to really look at within yourself. He is like a drug for your anxiety. You feel anxiety and then his actions or lack of actions either relieve or enhance your anxiety. Basically, you are 100% relying on HIM to let you know you are okay. This is co-dependent type of behavior and it’s a toxic pattern that ruins connection.
Let’s look at this a little more. You have used the work anxiety several times, so I’m assuming this is a feeling you are very familiar with and what you tend towards. Do you know when this started for you and why? Anxiety is fear about the future. Fear is the source, so what exactly are you afraid of? I know you are afraid you won’t get him back and you will lose your best friend. Let’s say that’s how it plays out. What are you afraid will happen if you guys don’t end up back together?
I know we’re on the path of getting back together, but right now I’m stuck in limbo as regards to my next move. This will prevent you from healing Mary. The reality is, life will show up however it does and we have absolutely no control over what shows up every day. You could feel like you are on the path of getting back together, but there is no guarantee. From everything you have shared, it doesn’t appear like you guys are on that path at the moment. So the goal here is to be okay no matter what happens. You could get back together and you could go your separate ways. Either way, it’s important for you to open up your mind to ALL possibilities instead of trying to control the outcome to be what YOU want. We all want to do that, of course. All that will do is keep you in suffering every time it doesn’t turn out the way you want. Learning how to find a place of acceptance of the PRESENT moment is the most important skill that will free you from your anxiety.
I’m still living my life with family and friends and am able to look after myself emotionally, but every now and then I find myself crying with such pain at not being able to talk to my best friend. Of course you are in pain. It’s part of heartbreak. It’s a rollercoaster ride for a while and eventually…it will stabilize IF you start to let go. The best way out of pain, is to step into it, explore all the causes and help yourself heal. I’m sure your heart has been broken MANY times. You wouldn’t have anxiety otherwise, so this current broken heart will activate ALL those other times you had a broken heart, so this is a beautiful opportunity to begin healing on a deeper level. Are you willing?
My main problem is needing help crafting texts and scripts. These scripts feel more natural and authentic than general advice. When I have an understanding of how the flow is, I feel much more calm. What should I text, and when?? He moves in less than a week. First, you have crossed his boundaries and broken your word of respecting his space. You are in so much pain, that you are losing site of him and what he needs. Truly loving someone is honoring THEIR journey, THEIR needs, THEIR knowing about what is best for them, even if it counters yours. Right now, all you are thinking about is yourself and how to get out of pain. Even if you did get back together Mary, the patterns and challenges that existed before breaking up, will still be there. The challenges you are personally dealing with, are not fixed just by changing your behavior. That will work for a short amount of time, but those patterns will easily creep back into EVERY relationship until you dive in and shift those patterns from the core. That takes time and commitment.
I regret going in and I regret requesting him. The only way I know how to recover is to give him space (no texting or contact.) I did send a quick apology the day after with no reply. I feel AWFUL!! I hope you guys can give me some advice soon. I’m struggling very much. It’s good you had this experience. It’s really important that you follow through in what you say you are going to do. It’s the only way to build trust back up. At this point, your apologies won’t matter anymore, because you keep crossing boundaries. So the best thing you can do is truly give him the gift of being honored and respected for HIS needs and stay away. In the meantime, this is going to be VERY hard for you, so it’s a good time to truly dive into working on yourself.
I’m not saying at all that you guys can’t get back together, but what I am saying is that there are a lot of things within YOU that you can begin to work on, so your next relationship, whether him or someone else, functions at a higher level. Right now your focus needs to be on dealing with your anxiety and the hurt on your own and not look to him to help you anymore. It’s very normal to want your best friend and lover to help you feel better. The problem with that is, when they become unavailable for whatever reason, where is your own skillset of knowing how to take care of yourself without them? From my 20+ years of coaching about relationships, this is one of the top underdeveloped skillsets that many times, causes the relationship to break down at some point. Most people have no clue how to take care of themselves emotionally without relying on other people to apologize, or change their behavior or do something that resolves the pain. The most effective and powerful way to be in a relationship, is to know how to forgive, accept, release all the negative emotions ON YOUR OWN, without needing the other person to help you do that. For example, I had years of abuse where I had to figure out how to forgive and let go of all that pain WITHOUT ever speaking to the offenders. And I did it. I’ve had boyfriends and friends completely shift and disconnect without a word and left me in complete pain and utter confusion. I was able to heal from all of those experiences WITHOUT ever talking to them. This mindset is what allows each person to have sovereignty over their own happiness. Your guy is not responsible for your well-being and vice versa. You can support each other’s well-being, but in the end, we are all responsible for ourselves. Does this make sense?
I know some of this is not what you wanted to hear. How is this impacting you? What does all of this make you feel?
Heidi
Hi Noora,
These are some great questions. Of course he still triggers you. He is an unkind person and the reality is, even if you didn’t still love him and care for him, anytime someone is unkind – it feels gross and it feels triggering. So let’s work on your mindset about this. It’s important for you to know what to expect from him. Even if he has some really nice days, there are going to be days where he is unkind as well, because he is an unhappy person. He will absolutely make attempts to continue manipulating you, because it has always worked. And it is still going to work sometimes AND THAT’S OKAY! There is a lot for you to learn and grow from these experiences. So view him as a your teacher. His manipulation and his meanness are his offerings to you to help you grow. Since he used your kindness against you, now you get to learn how to deal with it differently so that you protect your kindness. His meanness gives you an opportunity to turn and love yourself and connect to YOUR truth more strongly than his version of truth. Basically, imagine he is helping you go to the gym and strengthen your emotional muscles. The only way to strengthen is to go through resistance and challenge, right? So your relationship with him now is going to be about you learning how to love yourself more deeply, you learning how to manage your interactions with him so you stay empowered, and you learning to choose forgiveness instead of resentment or anger when he is being mean. You get to practice staying connected to yourself instead of getting wrapped up in what HE thinks. You can ask yourself, “What kind of person do I want to be and feel like, even when he is being mean and manipulative?”
The reality also is, the stronger you become and more empowered you feel, he will not like it. He wants you to stay exactly the same so he has power and control over you, so he can get what he wants. So expect a fight. Expect tantrums. Expect a lot pushing from him as you grow and change.
When you make a decision that is right for you and your son, then make it. And if he doesn’t agree, that’s okay! You don’t defend yourself, but instead you can simply validate his thoughts and leave it at that. So you can say something like “I hear you. I understand this frustrates you and that you don’t agree. Nevertheless, this is my decision and I need you to accept it.” In the end Noora, you are your son’s main parent and you are 100% responsible for him at this point. So the reality is, you get to make all kinds of decisions that your ex will not understand or agree with, but he lost his privileges by stepping away and not continuing to consistently stay connected to his son. So your job is to give your son the most solid, most healthy and nourishing home you can create for him and that is what you need to fight for and stay committed to, regardless of what his father thinks. He is not choosing to co-parent with you, so he doesn’t really have much authority when it comes to raising his son.
I’m glad you have a therapist, because it’s going to be quite messy trying to co-parent with him, so it will help a lot for you to have someone to talk with and also help you learn how to deal with someone like your ex.
I’m not sure if I answered your question or not, so let me know if you want more guidance with this.
Heidi
I love my self more than want to suffer this way again. You really nailed it here. This is ultimately the choice. Either suffer and be with someone or have peace and be alone. The people in your Facebook group are addicted to the suffering and being the “victim.” It is quite common. They would rather stay in their suffering, because it defines them. They usually are people who grew up being ignored, abandoned, rejected and whatever else, so they were left empty and their feelings never mattered. Then they grow up and something hard happens and they wallow. It gets them attention which is what they deeply need, because they are empty inside. So the suffering helps them connect with other who validate them. It’s an awful pattern to be in. You were heading down that road, but you pulled yourself out of it! That’s how strong you are! It is sooooo tempting to let the suffering and pain take over…as you already know.
And I started to just laugh because I realized that it was so stupid what I have done to my sellf and over what? Hahahahaha! You know…this is a great way to look at it! hahaha. That made me laugh. Thank you for sharing!
I know your husband is a liar and will affect your son. The best you can do is teach your son about integrity and the consequences of lying. He is still going to lie. We all do it. I grew up lying all the time. It was almost a compulsion. It wasn’t until I started going to therapy at 18 that I understood what was happening. I finally started to care about how that affected people. Life will teach your son as well. As long as you are a consistent role model for him and always there for him, his odds of learning a different way to be than his father are greatly increased.
Heidi
Wow Noora! You are a completely different person compared to your very first message. This is HOW STRONG you are!!! You are able to connect more strongly to truth and it really is beautiful…and I am soooo so very proud of you!!!
If I’m alone, so what? I’m then with person still who loves me, me. I seriously LOVE LOVE LOVE this! I’ve never really heard it said this way and I am going to use this in my coaching. Brilliant!
Some say that when I have forgiven then I’m healed and I say: “I do not neet to forgive assault to be healed and that is huge ask for any one who are mistreated and guilts the victim Let’s talk about forgiveness for a bit. It IS true that forgiving is essential for healing. I know I have truly forgiven when I do not have any negative feelings left over towards that person or about that situation. Forgiveness does not mean you forget. Forgiveness does not mean you let that person back in your life. Forgiveness just means that you let go of ALL the hurt, the anger and the negative feelings about what happened and also toward the person who you hurt you. Than you TRULY FREE from the pain. I have moments in my life of being abused and assaulted I can have those memories and not have any pain with them. I am completely free from those painful moments. Otherwise, we stay trapped by those negative feelings and then those negative feelings keep us connected energetically and emotionally to the person who hurt us. Is that what you want?
Even tho part of me would want that hope back and good times back, but the truth is there would be nevet trust again, it would not be ever same again, beeing with him would trigger constatly this trauma over and over again. Why I would do that to my self and would want to be in that kind of life? Yes, the trust was broken and can never be repaired. Yes, inviting him back into your life would be a VERY hard life. The thing is Noora, there were great things too and that is typically what causes people to get sucked back in. DO NOT be surprised that sometimes you feel like you would say “yes” to him coming back. Right now, you are VERY clear about saying no. On another day, you will feel differently and that is normal. Trying to heal after a breakup is a rollercoaster ride….A LOT of ups and downs and then eventually you will stabilize. Keep doing your work!!! You are so brave and so strong. Keep working with your psychiatrist. Keep learning about yourself so that you never get put into this situation again. Keep fighting to love yourself more and more each day. And even find ways to forgive him for his wounds and how it ended up hurting you and your son. He is living with A LOT of pain and that makes me sad. That is not an excuse for what he has chosen and he certainly is not an emotionally safe person to have in your life, but you can be free from the hurt through forgiving him and letting all of this go. Yes?
Heidi
Hi Lisa! Thank you for sharing a lot more. This is really helpful.
The first thing I want to say, is be more kind and compassionate with yourself. This is all new territory for who you are TODAY and that means there is going to be some fumbling as you navigate a new situation. And remember, HE IS ALSO responsible for his lack of communication as well. Just because you said and did what you did, doesn’t mean it’s okay for him to become distant WITHOUT communicating what was happening for him. Pay attention to that! It matters and is a yellow flag that could turn to red, if his pattern is to disappear and not communicate. You don’t know that about him for sure yet, but it is strike 1.
He’s also dated other women with kids. Wow! You have a tough situation. Yes, he may have experience with women and kids etc., but it’s an entirely different experience with 2 autistic children and 1 with medical conditions. That is A LOT to manage. Unfortunately, with an absent and unwilling father, that means that any guy stepping into your life would need to be ready to pick up that role. At least he does have some experience though. That’s definitely helpful!
How will i know when the right time to be physical is again? Can i be physical with him and let him know I’m open to casually dating and getting to know each other, but not casual sex? I guess i wouldn’t feel comfortable with him having sex with other women If we are being physical. I really complicated things by sleeping with him too soon i guess. Everyone is so different about this. It really is a personal thing. For me, I need to feel emotionally safe and bonded with the guy. That takes time. I also need to know he is invested in me only and not out and about dating other women. We are in the container of a monogamous relationship. How long that takes? Who knows. Every situation is different. So it’s important for you to get clear about what YOU need in order to open up and feel vulnerable to connect that way. Even though you had sex with this guy pretty fast, that can be a good thing too! You are exploring and learning about yourself right now. There is nothing wrong with having sex quickly…it’s more about understanding and accepting what that choice means. If both people accept and understand it’s a 1 night stand, sex can be great under those expectations. So it’s less about you having sex so fast and more about the mindset about what you wanted from it, that didn’t align with the action. Does that make sense?
I’d love to have that kind of opportunity with this guy to get the same sense for his true personality. While this is very important, I was referring to when HE is under stress, not you. That is one of the truest ways a person’s darkness gets revealed.
i think that only made me more swept up in the moment because he was so considerate. I LOVE that! He really wanted to honor you and respect you, which is important. You decided to go for it, so align with that and own it!
and I’m a little ashamed to say that I do feel very very physically attracted to him, which took me by surprise because it’s always taken me much more to feel very physically attracted to someone and safe enough to match that with chemistry and the desire to take my clothes off in front of them, if that makes sense. I’m curious…what is the “ashamed” feeling about? Do you think you shouldn’t be attracted to him? How come?
Moving forward, I suggest you need to get clear about sex, in YOUR mind. So if you feel like you want to pull back from that for a while, then having a simple, easy conversation about that would be good, since you guys already crossed the line. You could say something like “Listen, while I really enjoyed having sex with you, I feel like I want to put that aside for a bit while we get to know each other. Do you feel okay with that?” And if you get to the point of wanting to have sex again, you can have that conversation at that time and let him know you are not open to him having sex with other people if you guys have sex.
Otherwise, I wouldn’t talk about anything. There is no need to get into “I want to wait 6 months to a year before you meet my kids” kind of stuff. It’s way too soon for all of that. For right now, just keep things light, easy, simple and let him take the lead. Those conversations will naturally come up IF things get more serious with you guys. But until then, your mindset is just having fun together, observing, sharing etc. and taking it slow.
Does this help you know how to move forward?
Heidi
Hi Lisa,
Welcome! Oh I am soooo so sorry for what you are having to go through. It really is awful to connect with someone really well and then they start to send mixed messages…it’s very confusing!!! Let’s walk through some of this and I’ll see if I can explain some of what is probably happening.
I had already told him that I’m not interested in casual sex, and he agreed that he didn’t see me that way, but we haven’t ever really had a conversation about what exactly he’s looking for. I’m guessing this is where things got a bit mucked up. This is a mixed message on YOUR side of things. Having sex on date #2 IS casual sex. There is no substance to the interaction. It’s lust, it’s chemistry, it’s a surface connection. You barely know the guy. So for you to have sex on date #2 and then say you don’t want it to be casual…you basically are saying to a guy you barely know…I want a relationship with you and you are it for me. That is moving things along very fast and could easily cause a guy to want to step away thinking that you are one of the “clingy” types. I know he said he didn’t want something casual either, but he is a guy and most guys will say what they need to in the moment so they can have sex. It’s part of their nature.
You also have to consider that you have 2 kids and dating you is something VERY different compared to dating someone without children. A guy has to be READY for a full on family if he is going to date you. That means he is going to be thinking about his finances, his home, his entire life etc. before getting serious with you. It’s a VERY big decision to step into a relationship with you. Because of this, it’s important you take things VERY VERY SLOW! Be extremely discerning. I know this guy looked good on paper. He checked a lot of boxes, but that’s just the first step. What is more important is seeing what kind of man he is in REAL life. One of the most important aspects to watch for, is the kind of person he is under stress. How does he treat you? How does he treat himself? How does he treat others? This needs to be your #1 top priority for what to look for. You have children you have to protect. You have yourself to protect. So taking things SUPER SLOW allows for you to truly get to know someone and see them in all of their light and MOST IMPORTANTLY, seeing them in their dark. I’ve dated guys who were fantastic, but the moment I stressed them out, I saw another side to them that was not acceptable to me. Your heart is sacred. Your body is sacred. When you date, you need to keep that in the forefront of your mind and let that mindset lead you. How you treat yourself is how you teach others to treat you. If you deeply KNEW and FELT your body and heart were sacred, do you think you would have had sex with him?
I’ve done a lot of therapy & a lot of work, but the trauma hasn’t disappeared. I’m curious about this. Why do you think the trauma has not disappeared? If you have done so much work, you should be feeling like you are becoming more and more free from the trauma. It makes me wonder if what you are doing is not the most effective approach. I’m wondering…are you doing talk therapy? Or does your therapist have techniques and methods they take you through to help with the trauma? What other kind of work are you doing? I’m so sorry you had to go through something so awful Lisa. It’s awful AND you are incredibly brave and courageous to work on healing and clearing the baggage of the past. It’s not an easy journey, but you are doing it! It really matters and will greatly impact your life and the lives of your children. Watching my mom fight for her own emotional health, instilled in me to do the same. Good job!
Heidi
Hi Noora,
I akways felt safe with him and this was the main thing I trusted he would never ever do. This is the hardest part about relationships. We feel “safe” and like we can “rest” in that safety with someone and then they break the trust. It’s devastating. The truth is, “safety” and “trust” is an illusion on some level. The truth is, people are wounded and most have NO CLUE how deal with their wounds. That means they are going to break trust more often. That means they are going to cause a lot more hurt towards the people they love more often. The more wounded someone is, the more low self-esteem they have, the more they hurt and that hurt goes out to others. Most are not very aware of this cycle and most people stay asleep to their patterns. That’s why I only allow people into my life who have a high level of emotional intelligence, they have very wise and strong accountability, they have their own healing methods and most of all, they naturally WANT to grow and learn. Does this mean these people won’t break trust? No. We all make mistakes. But it does mean that it happens less often and when it does, they own up to it, they grow from it, they learn from it, they talk about it with me and they fight for my connection. In the end though, there is still no guarantee of anything. People change. So instead of putting all my trust in another person that they won’t “cheat” or “betray” or “talk behind my back” or “criticize” or whatever they do to cause hurt, I instead put trust in myself. I trust in myself that no matter how someone else shows up and no matter how much hurt that causes, I will be okay. I am strong. I am resilient. I am resourceful. I know how to heal. That is where trust and safety belong…WITHIN YOURSELF. Does this make sense?
Same time I’m fighting back because I like my sence of humor and sarcasm, I like that I’m honest and people can trust me, I like that I’m precise, I like that I wont give up so easily, I like that I can say what is in my mind and do not shame my feelings and thoughts. I think I am good mom and I was good wife and I try my best every single day no matter how sick and devestated I am, I go even through the rock if I have to. I knlw I have still learning of choosing my battles I know that. I try to not just like me but love me as well and accept that this is who I am and stop focusing of changing my self so hard. This truly is beautiful. I love that you connect to and see all they wonderful things about yourself. You are a warrior maiden Noora. And in your journey, you will continue to learn and grow. You will continue to develop more and more love for yourself as you go along. It took me MANY years to feel a deeper love and appreciation for myself in a way that changed who I invited into my life and how I moved through the world. It’s a lifelong process, but well worth it. The one thing I deeply realized, especially when it came to “love” was I had to ask the question “Is it loving TO ME to love this other person?” “Is it a kind thing for myself to love this person?” “It is healthy and nourishing FOR ME to love this person?” If you really think about it Noora, the love you have for your husband means it exists without loving yourself. You want to open and offer your very sacred heart to a man who abuses it, rejects it, hurts it and does not respect it. He betrays your heart. He betrays your trust. He does not truly see the value in who you are. So is that really love??? I know it feels like love and you have had many wonderful memories together, but it’s NOT that kind of love anymore. So now that he has left, you have a choice again. You can keep holding onto to this love you feel for him and try and win him back, but is it a loving thing FOR YOU to bring him back into your life? Or…you can open your eyes and see a larger view that although you feel connected to him, he doesn’t value your secret heart in a way that is safe, nourishing, vibrant, connective, open, authentic and healthy. And because he is NOT that kind of guy, you are going to CHOOSE to love yourself MORE THAN this connection you feel with him. This is self-love Noora. It’s a very hard choice sometimes and many times we mess it up and we have to go through the lesson again. So you get to choose again.
Thoughts?
Heidi
