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Then it sounds like you are pretty clear about that. He is lucky to have you in his life!
How are you feeling about all of it now that you have a different perspective? Are you able to find more peace about all of it? I know it’s crazy hard to feel completely peaceful about it. It’s a really hard thing to watch someone you deeply care about, walk into a BIG MESS!
Heidi
Hi Jody,
I understand your need to be there for him. This is actually not a very simple answer. Whenever I coach people how to be a good friend / partner / lover, one of the first things to pay attention to, is to not exclude yourself from the equation. Loving someone else and caring for someone is not loving or caring if you do it at the expense of yourself. Now it’s not to say there aren’t seasons where you are more giving (at the expense of your own needs) than receiving. For example, you may work, so your guy can finish his graduate degree or he may take on extra time caring for the kids so you can go through an online course. There is an agreement AND there are other sources in the relationship you are both feeding each other.
When it comes to friendship, it is NOT a healthy thing to “be there for him” if he is not still feeding the friendship in some way. If he disappears and ghosts and does not care for the relationship, for you to be sitting and waiting for him when and if he decides to return, is not really a loving and respectful choice for yourself is it? You are basically telling him and yourself that he can treat you as he wishes, he can ignore and ghost and then return when he is wounded enough and you will be right there waiting for him. That is not respect nor care for who you are as a person and a friend. That is not him valuing and caring for your friendship in his life. So…that gives you something to think about.
Also, you don’t want to enable him too much. Meaning, if he comes crawling back to you because he has been hurt, if you do whatever you can to relieve his pain, you are helping him strip one of the most precious things that pain can offer – which is growth. If you help him lessen the pain and discomfort, he will be less motivated to grow. Remember…pain is the motivator. So HOW you support him is important. If you are going to be a good friend, you will be okay with him hurting, knowing there is a higher purpose in it. You can listen and support and comfort, but the moment you start to feel yourself get sucked into his pain and want to “rescue” him from it, you are doing both you and him a disservice. What I like to do is offer techniques, articles, videos etc. to help people rescue themselves. So yes, be a good listener and offer advice if he asks, but do not be at his beck and call and do not over give to the point that you don’t exist in the relationship anymore. If all you guys talk about is him and his pain, you are no longer in relationship with him – you are in a relationship with HIS pain and you don’t exist anymore. So there needs to be boundaries and limits.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Josette,
Gosh, I am so sorry for all that you both are going through. Everything Kanya has suggested is spot on. With what you have shared, it does sound like you both are very young emotionally when it comes to relationships and love. How you both communicate, the choices you both have made and how all of this is being handled, just exposes the baggage you both carry, that was probably there before you guys even met.
Another factor is how young you guys got married. The decade of the 20s is truly about development. It’s the time to go out and live in the world for the very first time, hopefully all on your own. It’s how a person really figures out the kind of person they want to be in the world. During that time, they go and try on EVERTHING (hopefully). They date all kinds of different people, try different jobs, figure out how to financially take care of themselves – or not. When people get married in their 20s and cut those experiences short, especially by having a baby, it can have a lot of consequences later on in life (hence the mid-life crises in the 40s and 50s). It all depends on the person’s personality though. This may be one dynamic that is happening for both of you.
I know you guys have a super strong bond and that has been validated, even through that therapist. The thing is, the bond has become more important than yours or his self-love. Your son asked you that question because he is seeing how you are not respecting yourself or loving yourself very well, by continuing to choose to be with a guy who is not respecting you.
A bond is a bond, but that does not mean the love is healthy. When you are loving someone at the expense of yourself, at the expense of being treated well and treated them well (under all conditions) – it’s woundedness that is leading you – not love. It’s not love that is being exchanged between the 2 of you. You may feel love, but the actions being expressed between the both of you are not loving.
The thing is, to TRULY repair anything, it starts within each person. Imagine you have a big bowl full of all your issues about love – that started from childhood. He has one too. Then you come together and join your bowls. The product of your merged bowls, full of low self-esteem, full of lies, full of woundedness and hurt, limiting beliefs and patterns – is what gets expressed into the relationship. You can work on the merged relationship bowl issues all you want, but until each person deals with what they brought from their own bowl first and foremost, nothing will get resolved completely and unhealthy patterns will not change.
You both have been through a lot with each other. You BOTH are exhausted, as you should be. If you stay together, I would suggest you both do individual therapy combined with couples therapy. If you guys decide to divorce, then I would suggest you get yourself into therapy of some sort and start to take that deep healing path. My guess is, there is a lot of unresolved hurt and anger that you are carrying deep inside that has been there a long time – even before he came along. You have such a beautiful and expansive heart and ability to connect and feel deeply. You want that to be shared with someone who deeply cares for, values and appreciates your heart. It has to start with you first though. You have to treat yourself that way first before expecting or requiring that from another person. So in essence, your husband is reflecting back to you, how you treat yourself and you are reflecting back to him, how he treats himself. Make sense?
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Jody,
You are judging HIS path as “wrong.” You actually don’t have that kind of insight. Just because someone is heading into a direction that is going to cause all kinds of chaos and pain, does not mean it is wrong. Many times, chaos and drama and pain is the very best teacher in life. The most amazing, transformative and powerful transformations have been inspired by pain. When someone is hurting enough, they will finally do whatever it takes to get out of it – which means they are finally ready to make the choices they were not willing to make before.
If this girl is what he chooses and he ends up losing all his friends and then he gets burned, wouldn’t you say that is the BEST way for him to learn? There is something in him, whether you like it or not, that is attracted to being treated this way. That attraction is coming from a place of woundedness and low self-esteem. Adding to the pain by getting burned over and over again is something he needs to experience. As his friend, you can warn him all you want, but that also means that YOU are investing in a friend who might end up choosing another girl over you. So what does that say about you and your choices of who you let into your life?
Each person we interact with has things to teach us. This other girl is his teacher, as she is your teacher as well. She is exposing your judgment. She is exposing the kind of person he really is and how he truly feels about himself. She is exposing your fears about losing him as a friend. Wouldn’t you say all of that is a good thing? I know it doesn’t feel good, but that’s not the point. It’s what is real and what needs to be embraced and healed in each of you.
Heidi
Hi Daisha,
Thank you for sharing more details. You really have been through a lot in your life! I’m so sorry for all that you have had to endure. I’m curious…have you ever worked with a therapist or specialist to help you heal from all the abuse?
I understand your need to find the “real deal.” The thing is, as much as you say: “They think I am purposely trying to rush things and that in not my intentions” the truth is, you are rushing things. You need to pay attention to what your actions are. What you said to this current guy IS rushing things. Everything you said about how he is your dream guy is the fantasy you have been playing in your head about who he is. You haven’t even talked to him on the phone. So despite your intentions, everything you are doing is completely opposite. It’s not bad or wrong – but it is something to really look at inside yourself. It’s a journey you need to take inside yourself. What is happening inside of you that you feel you need to rush things? What is happening inside of you that you struggle with what to say to guy?
When someone comes from a lot of abuse, there is a TON of low self-esteem that gets developed. If you don’t take the journey to work on healing those parts of you, what ends up happening is that that low self-esteem part of you is the one who ends up picking your next mate. Which means…guaranteed drama in one way or another. That low self-esteem acts as a beacon to guys who are interested in controlling women. They may be abusive, they may be OCD, they may be passive-aggressive – but either way they will find you. That’s why healing is sooooo important. You want to shift that low self-esteem into high self-esteem. That low self-esteem is part of the reason why you struggle with what to say and why you end up rushing things. It sounds like you still have a lot of baggage from the past that you are carrying with you. Remember that “like” attracts “like.” Meaning, if you are carrying a lot of baggage, you will attract a guy who is also carrying a lot of baggage. A guy with only a little baggage will not be attracted to you, because you are not in a similar place in life. The less baggage, the more healthy. If you want a healthy relationship, then it’s important for you to some healing work first and foremost.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Jody,
I’m so sorry to hear this. It’s an awful feeling to not have someone reciprocate your feelings – especially a good friend.
Yes, this other girl does not seem really clear about how she feels. Childish or not though, it’s not your place to interfere. If he chooses to go down this path, it’s something he NEEDS to experience in order to grow as a person. If he is attracted to and pursues a woman like this, there are lessons waiting for him to learn. There are things he needs to experience with her, both painful and joyful, that are meant for his growth.
Do you think you can find a way to be at peace with his choices and trust the process?
Heidi
Hey there,
So this is an interesting development. I’m wondering how you came to this conclusion. Did something happen or you just had an epiphany?
First, it is not true that you will always find your way back to him. You are so young and have a ton of experiences waiting for you. Love changes. I have loved a handful of people in my dating life. I can look back at every single one of those guys now and not have a single ounce of feelings for them. The romantic love shifts into a type of general love that is like an appreciation for the exchanges you got to have with them. Everyone falls in and out of love all the time and hopefully will have a few experiences of that before settling down for the long term. So I want to encourage you to stop reciting your future and what you think you are going to do and just be present in the moment.
And in your present situation, you are bored.First, there is nothing “wrong.” Whenever you have feelings come up for you, look at them as messengers. Your “boredom” is a messenger telling you that something is off, or missing or mis-aligned. That’s all. Be grateful for ALL your feelings. Your messengers are your guides to giving you much needed information. For example, if you were to put your finger on a hot stove, it would burn. Those nerves are the pain messengers to let you know DON’T TOUCH! When you receive a message that you don’t like, like your boredom, the goal is not to make the messenger go away or “fix” it. That actually doesn’t help anything. You may be able to make it go away temporarily, but eventually it will come back, maybe in a different form. So the idea is to set down with that messenger and get to know it. Imagine you are a reporter and you want to write a story on the messenger “boredom.” What kinds of questions would you ask? What would you want to know?
Taking the path you want to take where you and him change something on the outside to “fix” your boredom, is not going to work. The boredom is in YOU, therefore that is where you need to explore. It could be a sabotage thing. That used to be my issue quite a bit when I was younger. I had a pattern of getting bored with a guy pretty quickly if they were too nice. When I couldn’t tolerate how nice they were or easy they were to catch, I would get bored to sabotage, because deep down I didn’t believe I deserved to be treated that way. Your boredom could also be just that…pure boredom – because he is a boring guy for where you are at in your life right now. So this is about you figuring out what message that boredom has for you. Once you connect with it and understand it and embrace it, THEN you can decide what needs to happen next. Try some journaling, or write your thoughts out here on the forum. I would suggest free writing to start. That’s where you sit down and just write whatever comes to your mind. No filtering! Just write and don’t stop. Many times it won’t make sense. Many times you won’t feel like you have anything to say – so you write that down too. It might look like:
“Today is Monday and I don’t feel like sitting down to do this today. This is so stupid. I don’t know what to say and it’s making me grumpy, but I’m going to do it anyways. And what the heck is going with this whole boredom thing. I don’t understand it and it’s really annoying that I’m feeling this way. I don’t want to leave him, but I am also so bored by him. He isn’t fun to talk to. I actually enjoy him most when we just do nothing. But what kind of relationship is that?”
Does this make sense? What is important is that you start to create a way to express everything you are feeling inside. When you hold stuff inside, it stagnates. So it’s crucial you give it some movement – a way to be expressed somehow. Writing is the most simple way to give it movement. Once movement is given to an emotion, you will be surprised what comes out of it.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hey there! Gerry sounds like a nice guy. I have found soooo many times that people are different through messaging compared to in person. I can even attest to that myself. I am much more connective and outgoing in person. Communicating through text etc. can sometimes feel so frustrating because I can’t really say everything I would like to, so I have a tendency to “summarize.” I hope you guys get to keep talking. James really says some amazing things about him!
As far as creating a “chase” for the guy, the concept basically is, you want to make them work for you. Being flirty and vague teases can be part of it, but the crux of the idea is more about being not so available all the time. There are many ways to do this. If he reaches out, take a few hours to respond to him. If he asks you out, say you are busy whatever night he suggests. Take things really slow by not kissing or being intimate for a while. Hold back feelings and let him take the first jump off the cliff on expressing how he feels. Let him be the one to initiate contact the most. Again, the goal is to give him just enough response and encouragement to keep chasing you, but also not enough to feel like he has caught you. But then, let him catch you sometimes for the “reward” and then you make him chase you again. These games are played a lot in the beginning/initial phases. Then of course, it all changes once both people commit. Beyond that, there is still a level of chasing that does need to happen to help keep engagement – but it’s all fun type of stuff. Another way to keep a guy engaged by chasing you, is requiring his best behavior, so to speak. When you have high standards as to how you are treated – with respect, with honor, with kindness etc. it causes the guy to think, “I better treat her well or I’m gonna lose her.” This is also a form of chasing. If he messes up, you confront, set boundaries and create resolution so he knows that when he treats you less than that, you will confront him. If he doesn’t want to participate in treating you in those ways, you will not tolerate it and leave. So having high self respect is a really important part of the “chasing” process. Where so many women get messed up, is they choose the connection with the guy over themselves. They would rather keep those good feelings than to require a guy treat them with respect. That’s when the chase is over. The guy knows he can get away with bloody murder and she isn’t going to leave. So to me, having standards as to how you are treated and not negotiating those away just for the connection, is the most important way to play the chase game…always and forever. There never is a time where that aspect should change – no matter the phase of relationship. And obviously, you are offering him the same level of respect in return.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Daisha!
We are glad you are here sharing your challenges with us. It sounds like there are a lot of things happening right now for you.
First, I want to encourage you to slow waaaaaay down. You have only been talking for 2 weeks and you haven’t even met in person. That is hardly enough time to know someone. The way you talk about him, is as if you truly know him. You only know the words he has told you. You have no idea whether those words are real until you see them in action.
I don’t know how long you have been doing the online dating thing, but it is a platform that you have to be VERY careful with. Peoples’ presentations always need to be taken with a grain of salt. I can’t tell you how many times a guy has said he was a certain way and upon the first date, I experienced them completely different. Who someone says they are is influenced by soooo many different things. BEFORE opening the flood gates, it’s CRUCIAL you get to know someone, IN PERSON, to make sure that what they are saying aligns with who they are in person. You want to see their words in action – otherwise, you don’t truly know what is real or not. The story you are creating about the kind of man he is, is just that. It’s a story with no evidence. This is why I want to encourage you to put the breaks on. Even if you had met him in person a few times, 2 weeks is still not enough time to know who someone is and if they are a good match for you.
I always coach people that when looking for a long term relationship, one of the most important aspects you have to know about them, is who they are in their worst moments. How do they treat you, themselves and others when they are super hurt, stressed or angry?? If you cannot love their worst, if you cannot feel emotionally and physically safe when they are in their very worst moments, then the relationship does not have a healthy, solid foundation for longevity. So – you don’t know what he is like when he is angry or deeply hurt. What if he is verbally or physically abusive? What if he is the kind of guy who doesn’t work through things and just ghosts when he gets upset? What if he is impulsive? Have you looked him up to see if he has any criminal record? I always do that! I went on a few dates with a guy that I came to discover had a sex offender mark on his record. I would NEVER have known in a million years and I am a very astute person at reading people. I always encourage the ladies to get background checks on guys they are starting to have feelings for and considering a relationship with.
As far as your statement: “Awesome. All I’ll say for now is Heavenly Father told me I was going to be married a 3rd time. It was hard for me to believe at the time, but now I’m confident & know this is true. However, there are some things I only share with a committed boyfriend.” Yes, this is something that would cause him to back away. You are using the words marriage and boyfriend and a sign from God in the same sentence and you haven’t even met him yet. That’s a lot of pressure you are putting on him! He is also seeing how fast you are moving.
So let’s talk about that. You have been married 2x already. What’s the rush? Why not just enjoy the exchanges you are having with him, takes things super slow and allow for both of you to truly get to know each other before creating any kind of future story together? What is happening for you that you are turning a guy you have never met, into your dream guy?
There might be a way to salvage this. I suggest you talk to him – NOT TEXT OR MESSAGE! You can say something like, “Listen, I’m sure my message the other day where I mentioned…..scared you a bit. I’m sorry. I really got ahead of myself and it kind of surprised me actually. I just haven’t had these kinds of feelings in a long time and I got carried away. The truth is, I want to just take 1 day at a time and see where this goes. I’m truly in no rush and just want to have fun and continue getting to know you. My foot is off the gas and back on the break now.”
I’ve said a lot. I know it’s not really what you want to hear, because it counteracts what you feel. Let’s keep talking about this!
Heidi
Hi Sarah,
Welcome! We are really glad you are here and sharing your questions. You have some valid concerns. Let’s see if we can break them down and figure out the next best steps for you.
My first question is, have you been able to completely let go of the guilt for having sex with him? Were you planning on waiting until marriage? Was it for religious purposes or just a personal choice?
It sounds like you BOTH are unhappy and keep trying to change the other person – you are constantly nagging and he is constantly telling you, in one way or the other, you aren’t enough for him.
He is wanting you to be different so he can feel better about himself. That’s never going to work. From what you are explaining, it sounds like he has no clue what he wants. Someone like that is having a really hard time on the inside. Meaning, he has a lot of thoughts and feelings on the inside that are chaotic, confusing and intense. Instead of dealing with them, they leak out and you are the target. The truth here is, there is NOTHING you can do to make feel happy. That’s his job.
You nagging him all the time is also about your own state of internal happiness. What is it that you keep nagging him about? The same things? Different things? Is it daily?
I would like you to consider something. It doesn’t sound like you get to just be yourself with him anymore. Maybe it used to be like that, but now, it isn’t – and you have to deal with the present moment and not stay attached to “what used to be.” With the direction the relationship is going, it’s not going to last. The longer you both continue to go down this path, the more you both will continue to destroy whatever self esteem is left. That’s not love. Love builds, love nourishes, love heals, love supports and encourages. What you guys are doing is not loving or kind. There is not much you can do about him. He is going to choose to be what he wants to be. But you do have control over yourself. What kind of girlfriend would you like to be with him? Let’s start there.
Heidi
Hi Melissa,
First, I am so sorry I forgot to mention this, but how are you doing about your friend passing away?? Wow! What a shock! That in and of itself gets you really connected to your own mortality. What a difficult thing to have to hear and deal with. How are you doing??
Thanks for clarifying! It’s helpful. My initial impression from what you wrote was how you were frustrated by several of his choices, but it sounds like I am reading it incorrectly. I think because you ended your post with “I feel I’m probably being needy….I’m just not sure how to get out of that thought process at the moment…it doesn’t seem like a good or even productive idea to talk to him about it…” it made me think that you were starting to frustrated again.
So let’s talk about this last statement then. I’m not clear about how you are feeling “needy.” What exactly is he doing that is triggering that feeling inside of you? What story are you putting around whatever is making you feel needy?
Any thought process you want to pull yourself out of is about creating a different story around what is happening for you. So if your is he isn’t giving you enough to feel happy, then you change that story to telling yourself about everything he IS giving you, how grateful you are for what he is giving you and that are well-loved and cared for. Work on shifting your story about whatever is making you feel “needy” and see if you can completely shift it without having to talk to him about it. Just a thought.
Heidi
Hi Melissa!
Welcome back! It’s great to hear from you and get some updates!
I love that you came here and just vented and let out all your frustrations. Well done!
I understand your frustration when some of the old patterns started to resurface again after having a few months of peace and quiet. I get it.
All your feelings are coming up again of feeling disappointed in him, his choices, how he lives his life. Have you been able to connect to what your triggers are around that? They are YOUR feelings and not his. He is happy to live his life the way he is. You are the one who believes he should be doing more and being more. So what is in YOU, that is always judging him for his choices? Where does that stem from?
Heidi
Well, if he feels jealous, in the moment you can say something like, “I understand you are jealous and that’s okay. I want you to know that you are valuable to me. I want YOU in my life, not another guy.” Now…that may make him feel better in the moment, but it will not change that he will keep getting jealous over and over and over again. Like I said, he has to deal with his insecurities on his own.
The same goes for fear and hurt. You can validate, listen, support and encourage. Talk to his best self by saying “I know you are hurt. I also know you are a strong man and capable of handling whatever happens.” But again, it will not change the core root of why he hurts.
Imagine he has this beautiful yard but there are areas where a lot of weeds keep growing. Those weeks are HIS weeds. You can help manage the weeds by cutting them down all the time, but eventually, they will grow again…and again…and again – no matter how many times you cut them down. The only way for those weeds to go away, is for HIM to go in and take the weeds out from the root. Until then, you will just keep having to help him over and over and over again.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
hahahaha! You crack me up Rhonda!
1. Maybe they are trying to do a pouty face and look cute??
2. It’s very primal. They are showing off their prize! Something to be proud of. Something to demonstrate they are capable and able to take care of their woman. They are skilled. And catching a bigger fish, means it took more work and skill to do it.
3. “Other” religion means maybe they are not religious but more spiritual. I also know plenty of people put “other” because they are not wanting to be judged or screened by their particular beliefs. They would rather just talk about that kind of stuff in person.I’ve gone on dates with tons of unattractive men. I have chosen that path many times because I don’t want to judge a book by it’s cover. And I gotta tell ya…I have met some GREAT guys! Maybe instead, before going online, you just say a little prayer “God, help me see each person through your eyes of truth.” And then when you look at profiles, let your spirit lead you, not your eyes. Just a thought…
Heidi
You are asking some great questions! Let’s see if there is a way to sift through all of this so you can find more peace.
Let’s start with what a healthy relationship looks like. You said “Because those are the best types of relationships right? when the guy likes the girl more?” This is actually not true. First, it’s important to understand that you cannot compare who likes who more. Men and women experience life and love sooooo differently. So you cannot really compare and nor should you. The best kinds of relationships are the ones where 2 people are committed to growth, learning, healing and being the best kind of partner/person they can be…plain and simple. It’s not about one chasing more than the other. It’s about having respect for each other at the very core foundation. It’s about wanting the very best for your person, but also not at the expense of yourself. It’s about being able to love ALL parts of your person…even the yucky stuff.
The romance kind of stuff you see in movies is just the icing on the cake. It’s the easy stuff and truly does not hold any value without the core foundation being healthy. You keep wanting HIM to behave in a certain way for you to feel loved. If you function in a relationship from that mindset, you will always find yourself unhappy, unsettled and always wanting more. So again, this is about you, not him. You are wanting him to do for you what you are not willing to do for yourself. Meaning, you want HIM to make you happy, because you are not willing to do the work yourself. AND…you are wanting him to do all this work for you, but what work are you doing for him? You never want to ask something from somebody that you are not willing to do yourself, right?
I also know that you want a deep, powerful love connection. I get it. The romance and passion and intensity you see in movies is not a fantasy. It can be real, but it also needs to be earned. In order to have that kind of powerful love, there is a lot of learning, growing, facing fears, looking at the baggage you carry, compromising, hurting and forgiving etc.
So…in the spirit of learning, I think a good thing for you to check out and start to gain understanding is about the 5 love languages. Go here: https://www.5lovelanguages.com/
Fill out their quiz and start to better understand your particular ways of expressing love and maybe see if you can guess what your guy is. The mistake many people make is thinking their person is not loving them, when in actuality, they are, but just expressing it differently. It’s one of MANY approaches to help ease some of the challenges in relationships.
Let me know your thoughts! There is so much more to say, but I think this might be a good starting place.
Heidi
