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Hi Diana,
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I know it’s incredibly challenging to watch the love of your life, slip through your fingers. The wonderful thing about our hearts, is that even when it’s broken, it CAN be healed.
I have a few things to share and hopefully they will help shift your perspective.
First, let’s talk about this:and I’m sure I can be the woman of his dreams I want to invite you to let go of this idea. Basically, you are saying “I believe I know what is BEST for him, more than what he thinks is best for himself.” The only time this is true in a relationship is a parent/child kind of connection. This is basically saying you DON”T trust his process, you DON’T trust his choice, and that you are right and he is wrong. Operating from this mindset is what will instantly cause him to put walls up against you…as it would for anyone. It’s a believe that DOES NOT honor him, respect him, and it disempowers him.
Instead of operating from that idea, you want to operate from this mindset: “I want him to be happy, even if that means he is not with me. I trust his choice. I trust his process. I respect that he knows what is best for himself. I honor that even though he sees things differently than I do, what he sees is true FOR HIM.” When you have this kind of mindset, you are honoring and respecting him instead of constantly trying to control the outcome and change his mind…which in essence is you telling him he is wrong.
I know it may seem counter to what you think, but a STRONG woman, an INDEPENDENT woman, a CONFIDENT woman is able to honor and respect her man’s choices, while NOT losing herself. Instead of spending all your energy trying to change HIS mind so you can feel better, focus on making yourself feel better on your own. What he is feeling from you, is that you don’t know you will be okay without him. So if you want to be the kind of woman he is actually looking for, it’s showing him that you know how to take care of yourself. That even though you love him, you will honor and respect his choice and let go. THAT is what confident woman does.
It sounds like you live your life by trying to please others. That is a typical co-dependent type of pattern: “Meeting the needs of others at the expense of your own.” So you chose to stay depressed so you wouldn’t lose your connection with him. You made HIS needs more important that your own mental health. Basically, every person is more important that you. And that’s where it can become really toxic for you and sabotage connection.
Nothing is working because the underlying issue is not the mistakes you made, but the REASON you made those mistakes in the first place. When you live your life according to what other’s want, you have lost yourself. How can he ever know who you truly are, when you don’t know who you are. You say: I know I am all that but your actions do not portray that. I have no doubt there are parts of you that believe that, but when it comes to relationship specifically, fear is running your life. Depression has taken over your system which just tells you how much you have not cleared from your past…and it’s built up enough that the “drains and pipes” of your emotional system are so clogged that you cannot function in your life in the way you are want to.
So instead of focusing on trying to get him back so you can feel better, how about letting him go and focusing on stepping back into your power. Develop your self-love. Heal from whatever happened in your past. Empower yourself. THEN…maybe he will circle back around again and you guys can have a completely different experience. And if it’s not him, it can be a new guy who truly values and appreciates your strength.
One of the fastest ways to build respect with this guy is by letting him go. That will instantly communicate to him that you respect and accept his choice…which is a BIG deal. You can say something like “I’ve learned a lot about myself since we broke up. I really heard you when you said you wanted a strong, confident woman and I am seeing how I am not like that. I know it’s in me, but I’m seeing how it’s buried underneath the baggage I’m carrying around. Anyway, as much as it breaks my heart to let go of the love I have for you, I know you are doing what is best for you and your happiness – and that is what matters most to me. And it’s also helping me realize where I was not the best partner and what I need to do become better. So…I’m going to start by honoring and accepting your choice. I’m not going to try and change your mind anymore. It hurts, but it’s my hurt and not for me to put onto you to fix…” THIS kind of approach will SHOW him your strength, will cause him to feel respect you and will definitely help lower his irritation. BUT….if you say something like this, you have to mean it. And he will know you mean it, because your actions will support your words. That means no more crying in front of him – no more pleading – no more trying to get him to stay – no more anything. Let him go.
Thoughts?
Heidi
I think a support group is an excellent idea and I didn’t know they existed for those who don’t have the illness. Absolutely there are support groups. They exist for those who have the disease as well separate groups for the “supporters” or “caregivers.” You guys need just as much help and support as anyone!
In my mind it looks like letting go of what was so important for 30 years…FAMILY This has already happened.
Sometimes I think he would be fine walking away and never looking back. This could happen. He is already walking down a similar path like that right now. Who knows where he will end up. He will either continue to get worse, as his body worsens or he will come back to his senses, stop running, and come back and face this with you. If he decides to continue to walk away…he gets to do that. This is HIS process. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not he values you. Like I have already said…pain and a death sentence will throw someone into a tail spin where they completely lose themselves. Those that are more fragile emotionally, don’t handle it well and go off the deep end so to speak, like what he is doing. His emotional fragility has NOTHING to do with you. That has to do with the thousands of choices he has made in his life to run away from his feelings, his pain, his past, his wounds etc…things that were all there even before you met him.
I think it could truly cause him to have a breakdown. If he gets taken advantage of and ends up having a breakdown, that could be the BEST thing that happens. I know this is hard for you to understand and you want to rescue him from his pain, but pain is the best chance at him changing directions. Pain is a motivator. Pain inspires growth like nothing else. Think about addicts. They typically get help when they reach rock bottom and there is nowhere else to go. They don’t want to die, so the only way out is to finally get some help. This is no different. Right now, he is not at rock bottom and the level of pain he is in, is causing him to still run…and he will face the consequences of that choice – it will catch up to him at some point. The thing is, the pain NEEDS to catch up to him if he is ever going to change directions. His pain tolerance is so high, so he is able to take on a lot. So…as life does..it will keep dishing it out until something else major happens to get his attention. If he keeps running, something else will happen and so on. So rescuing him from the pain is the worst thing you could do for him.
As a mother, you KNOW that sometimes, it is so important for life to teach your kids. You can tell them until you are blue in the face “Don’t date that guy/girl. They are bad news and will break your heart. But they will still do it anyways, because they NEED to go through the experience, FEEL the pain and learn from it. As a mother, you have to accept that you cannot rescue or protect your kids from the pain that life naturally brings. Your ex is the same. You cannot rescue him. You need to step back and let him feel the FULL extent of his choices.
I think you are right, I won’t be able to say no. I obviously love him, but he is the father of my kids and I need to support the family. You say this, but then you say this: If I stepped in, I fear anger and resentment over what he did to me and our family. I think trust would really waiver and I deserve someone who believes in their wedding vows and doesn’t run. So which is it going to be? He already is running. He already broke his vows. You say you deserve someone who believes in their vows, yet you are continuing to support him who is doing everything that you KNOW will cause you to feel resentment and anger. And this is where YOU are messy and not clear.
I know it’s complicated AND it’s really simple in the end. In the end, if you keep on this path of continuing to put all your focus on him, hoping he will eventually change, then you will feel resentment and anger..but it won’t be his fault. It will be your design, because you CHOSE to continually betray your needs in order to support him.
You say you need to support your family. What does that mean in your mind? Your family is already broken. He has left. Your kids are hurting and struggling with him as well, but that’s just part of their process as well. So what exactly do you think YOU specifically need to do to “support” your family. Your kids are adults. They can take care of themselves. So what “support” are you assigning as your role in the family?
Are they dates if they are completely platonic? What I truly want is my family back together and for him to realize the mistake he has made. So many people around us have spoken about the amazing team we were and how much love there is between us. I want to help him navigate his diagnosis and I do want to support him. Last fall, when everything happened, it was me he turned to because he knew he could count on me and I would support him. The boundaries are complicated. I’m going to get a bit more tough with you here. What you want is not going to happen. What you had is in the past and has been destroyed and will never be the same again. It seems like you are in denial here about what is happening. It seems like you keep waiting for him to wake up and realize what horrible decisions he is making and how much he is ruining his life and how valuable you really are to him. You are in suffering Lisa, because you don’t have BOTH feet fully grounded in the reality. The reality is, he is gone. He broke your family unit, he does not value you in the way you want because he is consumed by his own problems. This is the reality for TODAY and you keep fighting against that. That is where suffering comes from…when we are not in acceptance and we keep hoping and pushing for change and it doesn’t happen. There is NO INDICATION at this point, that he plans on changing his ways. Let him go Lisa. Letting go does not mean that down the road you guys can’t come back together. Letting go just means you accept what is…for TODAY. With all of that being said Lisa, it doesn’t mean that things won’t change in the direction your beautiful heart wants. No one knows…not even him. So because the future is unknown, all we can deal with, is the present moment and the information we have IN THE MOMENT. And that’s where peace can be found. When you accept that TODAY, you are divorced, he is running, he is dating, you are not his person anymore and you cannot control his choices…then you can let go. And when you let go…that is truly where the magic happens. That is truly where peace can be found. That is truly where freedom from the suffering can be found.
I know that may be hard to grasp, but what I will tell you…is what you are doing and how you are thinking about this whole situation…is not working. You are in so much pain, but you are looking for relief from that pain by trying to find a way to change HIM….and that is something that doesn’t work. He is an adult. He gets to make his own bed and lay in it and you cannot stop him. You are not going to find relief this way. So why not try a different approach. Why not try letting him go? Why not try fully and completely accepting his choice? Why not try letting him fall as far as he needs to, in order to let life have the opportunity to teach him?
I know I may across quite harsh. I want you to know Lisa, I KNOW that everything I am saying is easier said than done. I know it’s complicated. I would never wish on anyone to have to face what you are facing. Your entire world is being stripped of everything you felt was secure and wonderful. I have had some intensely painful strippings like that myself and it will take you to your knees. What I do know, is that I finally started to heal when I accepted what I was facing. I got help, I continued to grow and learn and heal and I fought for myself, because that was the only thing I had control over. I was powerless as my world came crashing down in ways I never thought possible. So…I had to let it fall. AND…because I chose to finally accept and move forward, I got to rebuild my life. I got to create a new version of myself that was even stronger and more resilient. Just like a city that gets wiped out by a hurricane and nothing is left, people are faced with choices. They cannot have back what they once had. They can only look forward and make 1 choice at a time to build again.
Heidi
it seems EVERYONE, including men, have fallen to the place that the women were. I really love your spirit Vino. Most people just say the prayer and do not connect to what it really means. And your exploration of the word “unity” and what it meant to you, is a great beginning!
I’m not saying I understand what it means, as with anything…we all will interpret the meaning of something according to our lens. For me, unity could hold the level of connection you described, for sure. And I’m with you…no way in a million years do I want to unite with just anybody. We all have our healthy standards and discernment.
When it comes to what Jesus might have meant, from how I personally have understood it, was that we are all united through God…we all come from the same source…we all are made in the “image of God.” So how does that translate? For me, it translates by understanding that when I judge or criticize another, I am judging and criticizing myself as well. When I love another, I am loving myself. There may be different colors, different cultures, different beliefs, different everything…but we are united even from the simple fact that we have 1 thing in common…we are all human living on earth….and that gives us all something in common that makes us united. From a spiritual perspective, we are united because we all have God within us, whether we believe it or not. We all have that divine spark of light where we came from, which makes us united by being part of something much bigger than ourselves. We are family. So for me, the spiritual meaning of unity is more from the largest viewpoint vs. the human/egoic meaning of unity is reductionistic. Just like love, there is the most advanced spiritual form of love…agape love, but then once you place love in the hands of the human/ego perspective, it changes the frequency of love which means love has many levels and perspectives. Does this make sense? Not sure if it gives you more to think about or not. I’d love to hear your journey with this one. It’s always interesting!
Oh that’s really challenging what JB had to endure. I have no doubt that those female teachers probably grew up in abusive, neglectful homes and were not strong enough to break the cycle. I have found that many people who grew up feeling powerless in their lives, end up in jobs where they get to have “power over,” trying to compensate for the amount of powerlessness they feel. And of course, those kinds of people just continue the cycle and cause a lot of damage. I love that he shared himself with you. It’s good for him!!!
So, when i moved — i let go of 7 to 8 boxes of yarn and several boxes of patterns as well! Oh wow! Well done! You asked yourself some great questions and really got to the core root for yourself. If only everyone approached attachment in the same way! We would have a very different world. Isn’t it interesting how the limitations your parents placed on you, caused you to get EVERYTHING when you got to the U.S.? That’s why I explore all of my decisions, searching for the core root energy/program/belief that is sourcing a desire, choice, behavior etc. That’s what helped me become quite masterful at reading the subconscious signals within myself, as well as others, so I was able to “read between the lines” so to speak. At first, it was more of survival mechanism I developed, because I could tell what I should REALLY expect compared to what people were presenting to me. Now, it’s just a skill I have and I don’t need to use it to “protect” myself from getting hurt anymore. I have no doubt you have developed that type of understanding as well. People always ask me, “How did you know all of that from the little I told you?” As if it’s magic somehow….but all it really is, is I know myself on such a deep level and in the end, we are all the same. So as I know myself, I know you too. Maybe that’s part of the unity concept as well.
Heidi
Hi Brittany,
Welcome!
I’m so sorry you are being treated like this. It’s incredibly confusing and frustrating and hurtful. It’s the hardest part about dating.
I want to invite you to really think about something.
We teach people how they are allowed to treat us by saying yes or no to how they interact with us. With that in mind, if you truly believed your heart, your body, your energy, your laughter, your connection were a gift…were sacred….were valuable…and you treated yourself that way…do you think it would matter “why” he is behaving this way? Nope. All you would care about is that he is NOT treating you in a way that makes you feel valuable and respected and you would disconnect, because it’s not acceptable to you.
So the question here is more about you and not him. What is happening inside of you, that you want to chase after a guy that isn’t treating you well? If he is like this within the first 3 weeks, then what do you think the next year will look like?
Healthy men are attracted to women who have standards and respect themselves and do not compromise on how they are treated. So…do you want to love and care for yourself, or do you want to chase after a guy who clearly does not value you?
I know this question appears simple, but what complicates it is the chemistry and connection you felt. You had hope for this guy and you want more of him, because connecting with him felt amazing. But connecting with him is also hurtful too..and it’s only been a few dates. So…are you willing to let go of he connection and honor that you need something different than what he is willing to offer? And if you do want to continue to chase after this guy, how come? Do you believe it’s not possible to find another guy who you have chemistry with and who has nothing stopping him from wanting to know every part of your being?
The last thing I want to say is that dating a guy long distance always increases the risk factor. I have seen this sooooooo many times and it’s so sad. A guy will go online and connect with women further away, because he already has a wife or girlfriend. He has the skillset to know how to open up a woman emotionally, which leads to her opening her legs, and then he goes home and no one ever knows. He becomes distant and inconsistently available. Then he will swoop back in and connect and get what he wants and then leave again..rinse and repeat as long as the woman allows it. And no one ever knows because the women he is connecting with are far enough away so he can keep everything hidden from everyone.
Just to give you a little window into the mind of some men. There was a book written a while ago by a man (I believe a reporter) called “The Game.” He ended up becoming part of this “underground” kind of group of men where they were taught how to get whatever they wanted from women…mainly sex of course, but the journey was more of a game. He got out of the group and wrote the book and exposed all their “secrets.”
On a deeper level, it was more about teaching men manipulation, conquering, subtlety, and the art of winning. Here is a small example. Let’s say a guy is at a big after party following a concert. He sees a group of 4 women and picks his “target.” He is taught to go up to those 4 women, start a conversation and talk to every single girl EXCEPT the one he wants. He ignores her. Why? Because this separates her out. He makes her feel isolated and ignored, which VERY NATURALLY will activate her need to want to join and to want to connect EVEN MORE with him, because he is the one isolating her. AND IT WORKS!!!! He keeps her in scarcity until he knows he has her attention enough and then he swoops in and makes her feel “special” after completely rejecting her. This feeling is so powerful, that she ends up in his arms, his bed or whatever the guy has planned for her.
Here is something that is sooooo IMPORTANT for you to understand about yourself Brittany. As a woman, we are completely WIRED to connect. It’s in our nature. We are designed to be the relationship caretakers. We are the nurturers and connectors. Men are the providers. I’m speaking in general terms here and what is instinctual, not about how a relationship should function. My point being, a group that teaches men that, KNOW a woman’s soft spot is her need to connect and that by rejecting her, the need to connect will grow 10 fold. Men know how to play with that beautiful, natural, instinctive gift of the feminine. I have known about this concept for decades and have watched it in action more times than I can count, both being done on me and watching it happen to other women. What’s even more crazy is that even when I KNEW those techniques were being used on me, IT STILL WORKED!!!! I’ve been fascinated with this phenomenon ever since. What I eventually came to realize was the missing piece – lived within the woman. There are MANY MANY layers to this, but at the core, the reason this technique works, is because the woman is not fully connected to her value. She is extremely uncomfortable being rejected, because her need to be chosen is so high. Her need to be chosen is so high, because she carries a lot of low self-esteem, most likely caused by a lot of rejection, hurt etc. in her growing up years. I know that is very true for me and has been for all the women I have worked with over the years. We end up giving our power away to a stranger, just to be chosen. And being chosen means everything…and that’s the mis-alignment. We have to choose ourselves. We have to be okay NOT being chosen. We have to be okay being rejected by a guy who doesn’t value us in the first place. We have to love ourselves so deeply, that we don’t compromise how we are treated, even if that means feeling rejected by someone. Self love NEEDS to be soooooo much stronger than our need to connect. And that’s a tough one for most women. I finally reached that place, but not without a lot of personal work, forgiveness, and fighting for more in my life.
I’m not saying this guy is conscious or aware of what he is doing and I’m not saying this guy has a woman at home. The odds are not in his favor though. Regardless, none of that matters, because the only thing that matters here…is you and the kind of guy you want to invite into your world.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Laura,
My heart goes out to you. You are watching your entire world fall apart in ways you never thought possible. He has changed and getting a slow death sentence will do that to someone. I know it’s so shocking to watch this man you have known for decades, to turn into the kind of person he is right now. That’s why there are a lot of support groups for degenerative diseases. Have you ever thought of looking for anything like that to help support you as you navigate this?
I know it’s strange to be around him right now and you are not sure how to act or what to expect, because he is quite unpredictable right now and he is a new version of himself at the moment. That’s why boundaries FOR YOU are really important. You obviously cannot control what he will be like, but setting some boundaries YOU feel comfortable with, can help your system at least have some idea about what to expect. Boundaries like: “I don’t want to know about your dating life.” That is NOT appropriate for him to be talking about that part of his life with you or with his kids. I can’t tell you what boundaries you need to create for yourself, as that is something only you can answer. What I can tell you, is that supporting him in every way possible, at the expense of your own well-being and at the expense of your heart…damages YOU. You think you can take it and for right now, you can, but it is waring on you in ways you are not even aware of. Who is supporting you? Who is helping you through this? Who is teaching you about what to expect? Who is guiding you through the loss of your life? Who is helping you stay clear-minded? It’s completely natural to want to help rescue and support the man you love, through this crises. The thing is, he doesn’t want your help. He chose the path of divorce and he is choosing further destruction as he is running away from what his body is doing.
I am terrified of him losing himself and giving up. Let’s go a little deeper here. What do you think would happen if he “gave up?” What does that mean in your mind? What does “giving up” look like?
I fear him being taken advantage of. So if he gets taken advantage of, then what? What do you think will happen to him if a woman uses him for his money?
From a selfish point, I fear him coming to his senses and realizing a lot of people might not want to deal with his condition and I don’t want to be the backup plan. This is about you, not him. You have a choice in this one. If you do become his “back up” plan, it’s only because he believes that is possible. You get to say no. You get to set boundaries as to how you are treated and what you will participate in. So…maybe you are afraid that you won’t be able to say no to him if he comes and asks for your help? And let’s say you are the backup plan…then what? You decide to step into that role and help him. Then what? What are you afraid will happen next?
I understand you saying We are not on the same page but it would be so much easier if it was black and white. How do I choose to help myself when I feel like he is so confused? I wish it were black and white as well. Dealing with people and their stress responses are the furthest from black and white as you can get. It’s layered, circular, and can be so confusing and hurtful. You choose to help yourself by LETTING HIM be confused. It’s normal for him to be confused. He has new identity he has to create for himself. He is facing the hardest thing he has ever had to face in his life. You cannot stop how he handles it. You cannot help him be more clear. You cannot help take the pain away for the loss of his body. You cannot rescue him from this. You are completely focusing on HIS experience and wanting to rescue him, that you are abandoning yourself and YOUR needs, as if you don’t matter in all of this. You are hurting too. You are dealing with not only the loss of your husband, the loss of your family unit, the loss of your home, you are also facing the idea of losing him to a disease and having to watch him suffer and it’s only going to continue to get worse. So…you ask how do I help myself? By allowing your pain and your struggles to exist as well. By creating boundaries as to how you connect with him. He is not available to you anymore. He is so consumed with HIS world, and is not connected nor caring about how his choices are affecting you…and you are allowing yourself to be treated that way by listening to his match.com stories. You are going on “dates.” You are spending a lot of time together and still bonding, but also watching him walk away and keeping a wall up. So…what do YOU want? And what you want, cannot be about what you want from him. He is who he is right now and maybe he will be like this until the end…who knows. You have to deal with the present moment. So given who he is, given that he is shutting you out, given that he is dating, and given that he has no plans of changing any of that, what do YOU want?
Heidi
Oh! I wanted to also ask you…I’m curious…how do you feel towards women these days? For quite a while, you had an instant need to protect yourself from them and you struggled more with women compared to men. So I’m wondering where you are sitting with all of that these days.
If i do contribute to changes in their lives and they go on to use that to affect those in their lives differently — oh wow! What a wonderful thing that would be!!! 🙂 This is truly beautiful Vino. You have so much more access to your heart compared to when you first joined the forum. Everything you have done and worked towards is working and I’m so honored that I get to witness that! And I love even more how you sharing it in the world.
the world of love is a beautiful place, isn’t it?! wow. you learn so much about yourself in there! Oh man! I could talk about this for hours!!! From my perspective, love uncovers and shines a light on things within us, that only love can reveal. It is one of the most sought after, powerful forces in existence that activates both the dark and light within each person who interacts with it. In my opinion, it is also one of the most mis-interpreted forces. I love how much you have explored it, learned about what a powerful teacher love is and that you are always open to it, whatever form and shape it may take. You are quite accepting and I would have to say, that is one of the biggest struggles that the majority of people have. Well done!
I also gave away every last bit of furniture and i have absolutely nothing right now. I have lived like this before! I gotta say…there is something so freeing by not having “stuff.” There is also something so beautiful by having a home filled with “stuff” you love. Every level has beauty in it. Sure, it may not be guest friendly, but who cares. If someone can’t deal, then you get to learn something about them and their struggles, right? I personally could care less about whether a house is guest friendly…except I am not a fan of hanging out somewhere that is dirty or messy or where there is so much stuff that you feel crowded. That causes me so much stress! LOL. I used to help people organize their homes as a side gig when I was in my 20s. I LOVE LOVE LOVE organizing and am very good at it. I was FASCINATED with the psychology of people who filled their houses to the brim. This one woman owned a multi-million dollar home in La Jolla CA. and it was gorgeous on the outside, but inside…HOLY SMOKES!!!! She has over 1000 magazines she held onto because “there was an article in it she might want to read.” Yikes! I got fired from that job. She couldn’t handle letting things go. On my last day, we were in her kitchen, facing this pile of stuff she hadn’t moved in a couple of years, in the middle of her kitchen island. As we were slowly uncovering everything that lived in there, I came across a Jack-In-the-Box plastic head that you could stick on top of the antenna on your car (I’m dating myself here. LOL) I promised her I would never throw anything away without her permission, so I held it up and said “trash?” and she said “no! no! no! I want to keep that!!!” in a very desperate voice. I asked her what for, and she said she had whole box of them in her garage and she might want to use it someday. I pushed a bit more to get rid of it, but eventually had to let her have what she needed. Later that night she called and said she couldn’t do it anymore. I wasn’t surprised and I felt so sad for her. The attachment that can happen with “stuff” can run soooooo deep for some people. People who have the “hoarding” type of energy are dealing with the “womb” affect. In a very general explanation of this, the womb is the last place they really felt “safe” and “protected” in their lives, so they essentially end up, very unconsciously, creating a type of “womb” with their homes by have a VERY small space to move around in. Does this make sense? I know this is kind of off topic, but being the kind of explorative person you are, I thought you might find this idea interesting.
It sounds like you and JB are still quite undefined other than being a “very important person” in each other’s lives. I love that! He IS quite special for you and always will be. I have no doubt that he loves you in return, in the way he knows how. You are sooooooo good for him too! The level of connection, love, and acceptance you have offered him, I’m sure has brought so much peace and healing to his soul…especially considering his job and how much darkness he sees in humanity. What a light you are!
Heidi
Hi Lisa,
I am soooo so sorry you are having to feel this. It’s so difficult to feel rejected and used. I’ve had many of those moments.
I’m going to give you a more objective view point of what he said and what I am guessing he meant. He triggered you, so you are going to see what he said through a wounded lens. Maybe what I see, can help bring a different perspective.
My guess is, the “onslaught of texts” more meant that HOW you said what you said, felt like an onslaught, not necessarily the 3 texts. You have a very strong energy and how you communicated your feelings had a critical tone to them, so I’m guessing the “onslaught” was more about the energy coming across those texts that made him feel like that.
Let’s address the “Haven’t felt a connection” part of his text. First, what people say and mean, especially over text, can be completely confusing. There definitely was some type of connection that he was willing to be intimate and he was willing to hang out a few times. His actions showed you there was something there.
So, if I hadn’t sent him those texts, he’d have continued sleeping with me, knowing he felt zero connection at all, and knowing how much I liked him and how vulnerable i was. You don’t know this is true. From the little you shared with me about what he was texting, he seemed like a guy with 1 foot out the door and he wasn’t sure whether he was going to step all the way in or step out completely. That’s where time comes in. I’m sure he was just waiting to have more interactions with you, to gather more information and see where the chips were going to fall. That’s what dating is. He doesn’t seem to be that sleezy kind of guy who just uses a woman for sex only. If he were that guy, he would still be connecting and not have ended things. He knew how you felt about him, he knew he could have sex with you, so he would know he could continue using you…IF that were the kind of person he was. But it just doesn’t feel that way with what you have shared so far. I could be wrong of course. But what you DON’T want to do, is create a whole story about what would have happened if you hadn’t texted him. Deal with the facts and what you DO know. He DID feel a connection with you, but it just didn’t sustain.
My guess is, how you communicated your feelings when he didn’t behave the way you wanted him to, was what squashed the connection so soon. Even if you said everything differently, it also doesn’t guarantee that the connection would have lasted. What I always come back to with dating and relationships is this….when there is an ending, whether it was caused by me messing up or them, I trust that an ending needed to happen. I’ve dated enough and coached dating for so long, that I have found this to be true. Endings happen, because they need to happen and many times for reasons we will never see or reasons we will connect to down the road. Sometimes, people are not the best match, regardless of chemistry or interest. I can’t tell you how many times, in hindsight, I was so relieved things ended with a guy “pre-maturely.” Over time, I learned to just trust the process. As people, we are all so messy and confused, especially when it comes to love, so each experience helps shine a light on what is working, what doesn’t work, where we are messy, where we shine – and hopefully we are better at relating with our next experience.
So Lisa…you have a choice. You can direct all your anger at him and focus on how pitiful you feel – OR – you can take all of those feelings and comfort yourself, love yourself, and be GENTLE with yourself. Dating is a tough school. You will never make it if you tear yourself to shreds every time you get messy or rejected. Have compassion for what you have been through. Be gentle with the time it takes for you to learn. Have kindness towards yourself for your limitations and “not knowing.” You are incredibly hard on yourself. How you treat yourself and talk to yourself is how you will end up treating others. The critical voice you have towards yourself, leaked out onto him. It will continue to leak out in subtle, small ways onto others, if you don’t shift how you treat yourself. Here is a concept I always keep in the forefront of my mind: “I cannot offer others, what I don’t have in myself.” If you are not able to be kind, gentle, accepting, compassionate and loving towards yourself when something doesn’t happen the way you need or want, you will not be able to offer the same grace to others. Your love and acceptance of limitations, different perspectives, different habits, different wounds that leak out onto you…is essential if you want to have a healthy, nourishing love, so you need to start with yourself first.
You are carrying so much hurt. Have you ever thought about working with an expert who can help you move all that pain out of your system? You can heal. You can release all that baggage and then you will be much more clear as you move forward and dating will be soooooo much easier. Just a thought.
Heidi
Hi Lisa,
I’m sorry to hear that it didn’t turn out the way you had hoped and wanted.
Let’s talk about some of your thoughts and feelings, as it’s important to work through those to keep your open i can’t tell you
how sad i am and how stupid i feel. It’s very normal to feel sad. Feeling “stupid” however, sounds like a belief you have about yourself. Was that something you felt a lot growing up? Did your parents or siblings or caretakers say that word to you a lot?
The thing is Lisa, dating is a very unpredictable journey and NO ONE can predict what is going to happen. I know a TON about dating and that never has changed that even if I did everything “right” that it would turn out how I wanted. Feeling “stupid” is feeling like you “should have known” somehow or done things differently and the truth is…YOU WILL NEVER KNOW what tomorrow brings…for any aspect of life. You also are operating under this idea as if you have some sort of control over the outcome. Do you think if you were more “educated” somehow, that things would have turned out differently? And if that is what you think, then I’m here to tell you, as someone who is an expert in dating – that whether something works out between 2 people is NOT determined by how well someone knows how to date or not.
Let’s talk about what you texted him…
I’m sorry that I’ve been so forward and assertive You start by apologizing for who you are. Are you actually sorry for being forward and assertive? I imagine not as you followed this statement by continuing to be forward and assertive. My suggestion is to do the best you can just being yourself and not apologizing for it. You are apologizing for who you are, which in essence is showing a lack of self-confidence. Be bold Lisa. It may scare some guys away, but it also will be VERY attractive to the kind of guy who will match you better.
The basic feeling of this message you sent was more of pointing the finger and saying “I deserve better than you.” You have used the phrase “I believe I deserve….” and what that does is basically say to the person…you are not enough for me. All the while, your actions are trying to stay connected. So it’s contradictory and it’s also carries a flavor of criticism.
A different way to say what you want to say would be “It feels like we are on different pages about what we want from this connection. It feels like I am more invested in spending time together. I want to respect the space you are in and how you feel as well as how I feel too. With that being said, I think it’s best we head in different directions. I have learned that with the right person, I am more ready than I thought to have a deeper experience…and I really love learning that about myself. It was great getting to know you and I wish you all the best!”
you know, it’s super early on but he knows enough about me to know I like making plans. He totally could have set up plans for next week sometime, and I’d have let things be & told him to enjoy his time. I think I deserve that. You are assuming quite a bit here, in the sense that you are expecting him to know you and honor that you like to make plans. Let’s look at the other side of this as well…he could say the same about you…he could say “She knows me enough to know that I don’t like to make plans.” Your thought process basically is expecting HIM to align with YOU instead of honoring who he is and how he likes to move through life DIFFERENT than you. Why should HE change to fit YOUR wants? Why not YOU change to fit what HE wants? Or better yet, truly look at the differences and either accept him for exactly who he is or go a different direction.
Again, you use the word “deserve” and I’d like to invite you to feel into that. If someone were to say to you “I deserve__________from you” what does that instantly feel like? For most people, it can feel a little like demanding. Maybe explore a different word that is actually more true than deserving….”I need__________from you if we are going to keep moving forward. Is this something you are interested in offering?” When you say I “need” you are owning it and not demanding anything from someone else. I “deserve” has a flavor of entitlement and can repel people. You absolutely “deserve” what you are asking for. But on a deeper level…you NEED it if you are going to feel nourished and connected with someone.
Now…let’s talk about his statement that triggered you. He felt like being on his own for the weekend and then didn’t set up any other plans. I would take it the same way you did where it feels like he is not really inspired to spend time with me. Not because he wants to do his own thing, but because he didn’t set something else up. So…with that being said, you are sensing this is a pattern with him and it’s not making you feel good. So instead of really looking at the fact that although you loving hanging out with him and the sex is good, he is NOT making you feel truly connected, because he is NOT making plans with you. There are a few choices you have….1. Go slower. He may be a super slow started and many guys will create distance, especially if they feel the woman is coming on too strong for them. So you could decide to match his pace and see where it goes. 2. Be more direct and talk to him about his mindset so you can have a deeper understanding about what’s happening for him. By gathering more information about his mindset, it gives you a more clear understanding as to whether that works for you or not. 3. Decide that while he is great, what he offers is not enough for you, so you move on. These are typically the 3 choices you have when you bump up against a wall with a guy while dating. Thoughts?
Maybe i was too forward? I did things all wrong. I spent a few hours swiping last night and didn’t find anybody else I was remotely interested in. I hate dating! Would you be willing to be more patient with yourself? First, do you really think you have all the power here that will make or break any connection that comes across your path??? Just because it didn’t turn out the way you wanted, it doesn’t mean it was because of YOU. And let’s play the game of “it was 100% your fault.” What I know about dating and relationships…the ones that stay together longer have a tolerance for “mess ups” and the “bumps in the road” that are guaranteed to show up during the dating process. So even if you did things differently, it DOES NOT mean it would have worked out, because HE is part of this equation as well. HE has limitations. HE has messiness too. HE has fears and beliefs that cause him to experience you in very specific ways that you have NO control over. You are NOT the almighty powerful woman who can make any relationship work out just because you think it should.
Dating is a super powerful and effective platform to deal with powerlessness, rejection, communication and so on. Like I said…it’s school and you are NOT going to pass every class with flying colors. No one does. And that’s not the point anyways. The point of this school is growing and learning about yourself. So if you are going to determine your love, worthiness, and value by how a guy responds to you or not…then dating isn’t for you. It will rip you to shreds.
So you have a choice to make here Lisa. You can take this beautiful experience that didn’t turn out how you wanted, and learn from it, value it, and appreciate it for everything it taught you about yourself. It knocked you down for sure…but so what. You get back up and you keep learning and growing. That’s what dating is for EVERYONE. I have not yet met a single person in the 20+ years I’ve been doing this, that didn’t have some serious wounds, cuts, bruises, gut punches from dating. It’s normal and it’s a powerful way to learn how to love yourself better…which in turn allows you to love someone else better.
If you would rather hold onto the pain and the perspective that you hate this “school” and you hate feeling this way, then you get to quit. You get to give this guy and this experience the power to close off your heart. It’s up to you how you want to navigate this and how you want to view this experience.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Laura,
You are not pathetic at all. You are having a very normal reaction to something incredibly challenging and stripping. He is being stripped of his entire identity by losing his body and you are being stripped of your marriage and losing him. You both are facing some of the most challenging events.
Of course you have fears. Let’s talk a little more about them.
his well-being Of course. You love him and care for him so deeply and to watch his well being start to take a turn for the worse, is also powerlessness that you are facing. There is nothing you can do to change what he has to face. You are powerless. You cannot change the trajectory of what is going to happen. You cannot change how he is going to choose to deal with all of this. The only part you are not powerless over, is yourself. It’s important that you truly embrace this fear. Yes, his well-being is going to gradually get worse. He will eventually become incapacitated and helpless. So let’s dig a little deeper. What exactly are you afraid of about his well-being?
will he miss me This is so understandable considering the choices he is making. The thing is, this fear and this feeling like you are garbage being tossed aside, is about you and a belief system buried deep in your psyche and was activated by what is happening. Something to explore would be looking at where else have you felt insignificant in your life? Look at the younger years. This is typically where those beliefs get created. Now let’s talk about the truth on this one. His choices have NOTHING to do with how much he values you. His choices have EVERYTHING to do with how terrified he is. Fear will cause people to do things FAAAAAR beyond their typical character. Like money, with enough of it, it can completely change someone.
I know it’s INCREDIBLY hard to not take his choices personally, as if there were something wrong with you that he would not choose to fight for you and instead run in the other direction. I get it. That’s why I’m suggesting to get expert help. These kinds of thoughts and feelings can really break you down. When you only have your own mind and your own perspective, especially with something this big, those thoughts and feelings will build over time and slowly steel the life force from your soul. Addictions start, depression can start to set in, choices you normally would not make all of a sudden become an option because you are angry. I’ve seen this happen over and over and over again. Protect yourself and your kids, at the very least, from more drama and chaos showing up in your life. Just a thought.
For right now, I understand you are not ready to step back. That’s okay. No one can tell you when you are ready for something like that. The reality is, you are not in enough pain to make a different decision, but eventually you will be. Either he will shift or you will shift. You guys cannot continue on the path you are on with such undefined boundaries and connection. You guys are NOT on the same page, so eventually that will win out and something will break. The goal is…to not wait until that point. It’s like a storm that is building out in the middle of the ocean. It slowly builds over time and continues to gain momentum until eventually it reaches land and creates havoc. So…you can either make some decisions now to help yourself while the storm is building out at sea, or you can wait until it hits land and causes a lot more destruction. It’s up to you.
Heidi
Hi Laura!
I am sooooo so sorry for what you are going through. You both have been through so much and there is no doubt it can create havoc if someone is not very solid inside. There is a lot happening here. Of course you are confused. Let’s see if we can come up with ways to feel more clear.
I also get confused because he told me the reason he wanted a divorce was so he could have his independence, but then he talks about remarry. This sounds quite impulsive to me. He gets a Parkinson’s diagnosis (which means eventually he will need to rely on someone full time) and then asks for a divorce so he can have his independence. Do you see the connection here? I’m guessing, in his mind, he only has a little time left to be independent, so he is “going for it while he can.” Of course how someone feels independent is going to vary, but it sounds like he has no clue what that even means to him, so he is just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks kind of approach.
Am I just something familiar and comfortable? Of course, but you are so much more than that. You have a knowing of him that is irreplaceable. There is a trust and safety that has been built between you guys over those decades that will bring him comfort. That’s pretty obvious considering how much he is involving you in his life still.
I wonder if he ever considers if he does find someone new, what has been transpiring between us will no longer happen. There is no way a significant other would be OK with it and nor should they be, even though it is completely platonic. Honestly, it feels like the divorce was more impulsive than anything else. I doubt he will find someone new, considering his age and condition….especially when he already has you by his side.
Here a more objective viewpoint…from what you have shared, he is just confused. Considering how proud and “manly” he is, he is facing a life where he will be 100% dependent on someone to bathe him, wipe his ass, feed him etc. His dignity, as he defines it now, is about to disappear. He is the caretake and now he is facing being the receiver and he is powerless to stop that.
So let’s look at powerlessness for a second. In all of my years of coaching and also my own healing journey, powerlessness is the most feared, most stressful feeling someone can have. Just look at what happened with Covid. People’s choices were taken away and they were powerless to stop it. The result? A lot of angry people, a lot of friendships ending, a lot of suicide, a lot of abuse towards each other and the list goes on. Accepting powerlessness is one of the most difficult journeys a person can take.
The most instant reaction most people have, is to find a way to get control somehow, the moment they feel powerless. They need to feel like they can DO something. So your husband got divorced. He moved. He got a job then changed his mind. He went on some dates and so on. All he is really doing, at the very core of his psyche, is trying to find a way to feel some kind of control in his life. Everything he is doing is impulsive, because he is terrified. Impulsivity is child energy. Children have no clue what they want long term. They live in the moment and do not think long term. That is what he is doing. He is in such a high stress response and has no clue or skillset about how to handle it in a healthy, adult way. So instead, he is being impulsive, looking for ways to feel control in life and doing everything he can to avoid feeling the powerlessness that Parkinson’s is slowly going to bring into his life.
For you, that means NOT investing in anything he says. He has no clue how he feels or what he wants….yet. Imagine you are talking to a 7 year old and he says “I’m going to get married to Sally.” or “I want to be an astronaut when I grown up.” You listen, you honor what feels good for him in that moment, but you also know that he is just 7 years old and he will figure it out when he is supposed to. You have no attachment to what he is saying, because he is just a kid. That’s exactly how you need to take what he is saying.
He is not the type to really get some help emotionally, so that means he will just continue being impulsive until he stops wrestling with what is happening. How long that will take, who knows. If he never truly faces this, he could end up dying a completely miserable human being and push everyone away that he loves. You cannot stop him from choosing what he wants to choose.
What you can do however, is hold strong in your own boundaries and how you allow yourself to be treated. The only thing that will give him a reality check, is to face the consequences of his choices and impulsivity. So he asks for a divorce, yet he is still in a relationship with you. So what that it’s platonic. It’s still emotionally intimate, which is the deepest level anyways. So in reality, he is not having to face the consequences of his choice to get divorced. He is reeling you back in at a level the he is comfortable with, not caring about how it is affecting you. So in essence, he doesn’t really have to face his choice of divorce and the loss of you, because he hasn’t lost you. If you were dealing with a 7 year old child going around your house and picking things up and throwing them on the floor breaking things you value, would you just stand by and continue letting him do that? Well that’s what you are doing with your ex. He broke trust, he broke safety, he broke commitment, he broke his integrity, he broke your heart. He gets to do all of that of course, but he isn’t have to feel the truest weight of his choices which is the loss of connection. No one can feel divorced or broken up, as long they stay connected on any level. As long as a couple continue to bond, neither of them can truly heal from the loss.
So you have a choice to make here. If you continue to bond with him, then you are setting yourself up for heartbreak again, because he is FAR from clear about what he wants…but the thing is, he doesn’t need to be. You are allowing him continue to stay confused. So if you set a boundary and say you are not interested in bonding with him and you truly need to accept you are divorced and you are going to pull away, that means he has to face what he is running from and stop having you rescue him.
Or…you can continue the path you are on and deal with whatever shows up when it does. You will stay in confusion, you will continue to get hurt by his impulsiveness and trust and safety will continue to be broken.
I know I am saying all of this, as if it’s simple somehow. It is simple, but far from easy. There are many, many layers involved in something like this.
What I most recommend is for you to get some professional help. This is incredibly challenging and stressful for you, so if you had someone to walk you through your situation in a more healthy, high functioning way…you will feel much more clear. There is so much happening that you don’t understand, so having an experienced person help shine the light on some things will be really helpful for you.
I am happy to send you the information of my coach. She is brilliant. She is tough, but she is always helping me connect back to the truth and operate from that place, no matter how much I resist. As long as I am willing, she is amazing at helping me get back on track and move through my life with more wisdom and clarity. Let me know if you would like her info.
Heidi
LOL! I have an excel spreadsheet because I use those phrases and quotes for my business, so I need to easy access to them. Your methods are great as well! I love how you hid them in the pages of a book or put them in a jar. I love how you just write them down and send them out into the world somehow. That’s beautiful!!!
Those kids are very lucky to have you and vice versa. It sounds like a very symbiotic kind of relationship. You are holding the space for them to be who they need to be and not forcing them into being something you want. You don’t have attachment. You are just present with them….a rare experience for a kid. What beautiful and powerful moments you are having with them!!! You are helping to change the world Vino!
Wow! Talk about a complete turnaround with the relationship with your kids. It sounds very freeing, relaxing, and full of trust and respect. I love hearing that! And now they are entering more deeply into the world of love. That’s quite the journey, isn’t it? No matter what happens, they have a mom who will be there for them and that makes all the difference in the world.
Well, it sounds like you are still in a place of acceptance of whatever is happening with JB. How do YOU feel about him? Would you say yes to being in a relationship with him, without hesitation? Either way, it sounds like what the both of you have is complete acceptance of each other. That’s unusual! The majority of my coaching is trying to get people to accept each other. That’s a tough one! I love how you got to spend the weekend with him and see what his life was like. I love that he is wanting to also come visit you. There obviously is a feeling of safety and comfortableness between you guy. I can’t believe it’s been 4 years! Well…who knows where it will go. It doesn’t matter really. You are pretty good at staying in the present moment and that’s all that matters.
Big hugs back Vino!!!
Heidi
Hi Spyce and Mary,
Spyce, there is another thread with the same topic that Mary posted under “Tricky relationship situation….” Let’s keep the conversation going on over there.
Thanks! Heidi
Vino!
Oh my goodness! So wonderful to hear from you and get an update. I LOVE all of this!
How fun that you are collecting phrases. I have done that for years. I have a HUGE list of favorite words, phrases, and quotes on an excel spreadsheet. It’s really fun and has helped me over the years.
Okay…so new everything for you! It sounds like you have found a place where you feel like you belong. Small towns can be so wonderful. I have lived like that before and there is a feeling of being seen and known that is comforting…and sometimes irritating. LOL. But all in all, I have always enjoyed smaller towns more.
So the kids think you are different eh? What’s your take on that? What do YOU think makes you different? I know you don’t know the previous people that the kids worked with, so it’s hard to know exactly how you are different, but you know yourself well. What makes you different as a person in general?
i wish more adults worked on themselves so they’d be a place of safety for all these kids being tossed about by their own dramas! Me too! But…you are helping to shape a new generation to become those kinds of adults in the world. What a powerful, influential, and beautiful thing you are doing with the love you carry in your heart. These kids are very blessed to get to cross your path. Even though you don’t feel it’s your lifelong “mission,” it’s your mission for right now. And that’s all you need to know. Your path will always reveal itself when it’s time…something you know very well by now.
Tell me a little more about your kids. Are they going to the same college? Are they living with you or at the college? How are both of them doing? I know the last time you updated me, one of them was really struggling if I remember correctly.
Congrats on the annulment!!!! That is amazing!! Yes, mission accomplished. The Lord of the Rings analogy was a great one. This aspect of your life has come full circle. You had hundreds of realizations and growth from that experience and that is the gift of all of those “poisons” from past generations that were passed onto you. You have done something quite unusual by deeply exploring, learning, growing, and being open to releasing those poisons. The majority of people do not take that path because of how hard it can be. It can be very lonely, heartbreaking, stripping, and an emotional rollercoaster ride. All of that is necessary though in order to “re-design.” You can’t release the old without replacing it with the new. I have so much respect for you and what you are creating for yourself. You never stopped learning and growing and developing your spiritual life, your emotional life, your mental capacity and your physical connection to yourself. Well done Vino!
You’ve been an integral part of my journey in the past 4 years, Heidi, and i am grateful for you. You just put a huge smile on my face. It’s always such feeling of honor and happiness, deep in my heart, when someone tells me that I have helped them along the way. So many people have done that for me, so being able to pay it forward, so to speak, is the most rewarding of anything I do. It fills my heart with encouragement and reinforces my purpose and my mission. Thank you for saying this Vino. It matters 🙂
By the way…How is JB doing? It sounds like you both are still very connected, but in what way? Friends? Possible romance? Indescribable??? 🙂
Heidi
I’m glad to hear you took ownership for your reaction and you communicated that to him. Well done!
I also can’t see why someone like him, would be interested in a single mom with 2 special needs children, and so I’m highly suspicious. So I’m guessing you will be suspicious of every guy that wants to date you then? Let’s ask this another way. Why WOULDN’T he want to date you? KNOW that the package you offer is high value for the right kind of person. Figuring out who that right person is, will take some time. A special kind of trust needs to be built slowly, on both sides. So take your time!
Although I like going out on occasion, I find “dates” exhausting. Spending time at his house cuddling up & watching a movie and having a glass of wine was definitely my speed, but is it indicative of how much effort he wants to put in? It just depends. Everyone is so different, so I wouldn’t put any meaning on this as to whether he is putting much effort in. You will know over time. He might be just as much of a homebody as you are, so that could be a great thing, right? I would say the effort needs to be more determined as to how much he likes you and vice versa as people vs. sex. This is always a very confusing thing to navigate, because lust is high in the beginning and can easily take over the dominant way that people connect. One of the best ways to know if he TRULY likes you, is take the sex out of it. Go out on dates and talk. Talk about everything there is to talk about. Laugh, support, encourage, ask for advice and so on. This allows you both to get to know each other on the truest and most important level without the distraction of intimacy. Kissing and holding hands is great, but the moment you go beyond that, it just adds a dynamic that can get quite messy. When you take the sex out of it and he still calls you, sets up plans and continues to pursue you, then you there is no question that he likes you for you and not for what’s in the bedroom. That’s so sad that your ex said that you were only good for the bedroom. He is obviously and incredibly messed up person. I”m so glad you got away from him!
I keep wondering if he likes me or if he’s going to disappear.
That’s what makes dating so daunting for me Yes. This is normal. The reality of dating is that everything could be going great and then all of a sudden, they disappear and you have no real answer as to why. Lisa, you will NEVER know the answer to this. EVER. I’ve seen couples married for 30+ years and one thing happens and they break. Relationships are NOT a guarantee. Love is a risk every single day. They could stay or go and the same is true for you as well. So it’s important to really embrace that you are just going to have to embrace that you will never know for certain what tomorrow will bring. The only true thing you have to deal with is the present moment, right? So anytime your mind starts to head into the future, in attempts to not waste your time or avoid getting hurt, remind yourself of this…you are resilient. If you made it through being married to a man like that and divorcing him, taking care of 2 special needs children AND you are open to dating again….YOU ARE RESILIENT! You know how to figure things out and get back up on your feet. Trust yourself. Trust that you are resourceful. Trust that you are a fighter. Trust that you have the strength to handle being hurt and getting knocked down and trust that you know how to get back up. Then bring yourself back to the present moment. For today, you are not quite sure about how this guy feels and that’s okay. For now, the door is open and that’s about all you know. When and if the door closes, either on your side or his, you will deal with it at that time.I know it’s daunting. Remember…dating is just school. That’s all it is. It’s a school for you to get to know yourself and develop new skills. You will be tested and fail and tested and pass with flying colors. Even knowing everything I know about dating, I still have moments of epic failure. But those moments are more a test of how well I can still love myself and choose myself and stay connected to myself, so my goal is to always pass that test, no matter what happens. That’s truly all that matters. All the other stuff leads right back to that core relationship with yourself. Does this help?
Heidi
