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Hi Kayla,
So I’m curious. How do you imagine it being different this time around. Open relationships can be extremely complicated in and of itself, but add on top of that, the other girl wanting nothing to do with you. How do you imagine you guys working all of that out? Do you have any idea as to why he is choosing to be with her instead of you? Did he ever talk about his reasons?
Heidi
Hi Vino,
I’m so glad you felt like connecting in here and sharing all your new thoughts and experiences! Wow! The way you are talking about yourself is so completely different than you ever have before. You truly are shifting and it’s so exciting!
You are asking some great questions about that dating program and how it ended up making you feel. First, there is no such thing as black and white “rules” or “guidelines” that fit into every situation. However, there are average ways that people tend to show up in relationships. The pattern JB has exhibited would suggest that he has an incredible amount of baggage, could be playing you, may not be who he says he is…how slow he is moving with you raises an incredible amount of red flags. But like I said, each situation is different and unique. You get to choose your own pace. Your need to connect with him far outweighs those red flags, so that’s what is most important to you…and that’s okay! It’s your journey and you are still getting enough from him to stay connected…for today. There are consequences you will eventually experience by ignoring those red flags, but the truth is, you will get through it, figure it out and be the resilient person you are. I have coached hundreds of ladies in relationships and I’ve just learned that no matter the evidence, no matter the conditions, no one can tell another person when they are done. So I’ve learned to respect their process and trust that whether it’s painful, toxic, fantasy or whatever it is…there is goodness in it and my job is help them find it and maximize the benefits of their choice and support them through the consequences that show up.
I do want to talk a bit about this statement you made: “But every single time a woman moves on from one man, the next woman who dates that man, will have to wait longer for the man to learn to trust her! So, when you get to a man in his late 40s or 50s… you’ve got a very beaten up man! So… just move on??!! to be honest i can’t think of any logical reason for a man to WANT to be in a relationship with a woman! Women are more pain that it’s worth!!!” I want to address this because in reality, none of it is actually true. Men are NOT victims of women. Men do not have trust issues because of women’s choices and vice versa. Trust issues exist because the person harmed has not forgiven and healed. Reality is, all of us are going to mess up, cause harm, make bad choices that hurt our partners. It’s our job to keep learning and doing better and it’s the job of our partners to forgive, release and heal. If a guy has trust issues, it’s on him. If a guy feels beaten up from women in his life, that’s on him – he is the one choosing the women, so there are lessons in it for him. Humans are a pain – not just women. We ALL come to the table with our baggage, our limitations and all of our greatness. I still want to keep encouraging you to find your connection with the feminine energy. It’s such a big part of who you are! I have no doubt you have some great things to say about this 🙂
Heidi
Hi Roxanne,
I’m soooo glad it worked out that way! It’s good!
I completely understand your frustration about how he is just disappearing and not letting you know and you how you have already asked 3 different times. What if this time around, you asked him about it. Use your “reporter” mindset and instead of asking for what you need, imagine trying to get into his brain and work on understanding the deeper layers behind his choice to just disappear without you knowing. I’m partly wondering if he is being passive-aggressive. I’m sure that in the moment when you are requesting for his communication, he truly agrees and wants to support you that way. But then, when his emotions get intense enough, his passive-aggressive behaviors will take over and he will not communicate, because that’s exactly what you want from him. Does this make sense at all? Does he tend to exhibit passive-aggressive behaviors when he is upset at all?
So again, ask him questions about what his experience is like when he feels he has to just disconnect and disappear. Do what you can to understand his world and what he is going through. Hopefully, he is willing to share. And I would also suggest trying something different maybe. What if you no longer requested this from him. What if you said something along the lines of “Well, it sounds like it is such a stressful experience for you and the last thing I want to do is add to that stress. I will be okay when you disappear again. It will make it much easier if you just let me know, but even if you don’t, I get it.” I know this would be hard for you, but the reality is, he is going to do what he wants, so it comes down to your choice if you want to tolerate this behavior or not.
Another idea is to maybe suggest a different approach. Instead of needing him to communicate through words, maybe ask him if he would be willing to send you an emoji that is specifically designated to communicate he is leaving for a bit. Sometimes people are willing to do something that simple. When emotions are high enough, trying to communicate and think about what to say can be overwhelming, but if there is some type of simple, brainless “symbol” to communicate what’s happening, it’s much easier.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Roxanne!
I love your text! It’s great! I would still recommend not to suggest a time though. You are letting him know you are ready to come to the table and then you want HIM to come to the table only when he is ready. This is important for both you and him. It’s important he volunteers to step up. It’s important, as a man, that he leads. It’s important, as a man, that he feels it’s HIS idea to start the “meeting.” So again, end your text with saying something like “I’m here whenever you are ready. Just let me know.” Does this make sense?
Everything you want to say and how you are saying it sound great! I would just add in there a specific technique. It’s basically “This is my perception and how I am experiencing this. What is your perception? How do you experience it when I respond like this?” One of the BEST ways to flow through figuring stuff out, is to have on your reporter’s hat. Imagine you are writing an article about it. You need DETAILS. You need to get inside his head as much as possible. So as you navigate trying to design a new way of relating, you ask a lot of questions, about HIM. You get really curious. You want to LEARN about him. Men respond to this really well. They feel listened to, validated and since he tends to feel you are controlling (that’s his perception) he will feel much more like you are listening vs. trying to get him to be a certain way.
Remember these 4 steps:
1. Listen – no talking and truly absorb the energy of what he is saying
2. Validate – this is not about being agreeable. It’s about honoring that he has his story and perception and it’s what is real for HIM. So validating just means you are honoring his experience.
3. Get curious and ask questions about his feelings
4. Problem solveSteps 1-3 are interchangeable. You want to hang out at those 3 steps first and foremost. THEN you can head into problem solving. This is true for all conflict resolution.
Is this helpful?
Heidi
Whoa!!! OMG! I just want to take a moment and celebrate you!!! You are doing some HUGE work and facing some of your greatest fears right now. What a moment in time. You are actually shifting. You are no longer just thinking about it, you are taking action. You are using your voice, you are making decisions that are respectful and honoring to yourself, your time, your talent and what you offer. This is seriously spectacular! I am totally doing my happy dance right now for you. This is such a HUGE shift and I am just so proud of you. I LOVE everything you are doing. You are allowing yourself to exist in the situation with MJ now instead of just doing and agreeing to everything he says. Woooohoooo!!!! I have a huge smile right now.
Okay…let’s address the other stuff now:
“Do you have any advice on how to overcome this failure feeling? What should I say to myself when this happens again?” I view failure as just something that didn’t work, but has many lessons for me. So is it really failure then? Failure is my teacher, that’s all. It’s truly that simple. I know we all are so afraid of failing because of the pain and suffering it can activate in us, but what if you just changed the story about what failure is? It’s inevitable and it’s always a part of life. But it’s a GOOD thing. There are things that failure can teach us, that nothing else can – therefore it’s extremely valuable. I am more attached to my growth than I am trying not to fail. Failure is important, necessary and part of our human experience. So what if your mom failed your dad’s connection. So what if you were not able to stay at the #1 spot for MJ. Many times, failure is rescuing us from further chaos. Soooo many times I have looked back and saw that my “failure” actually saved me from staying in something way past the expiration date. Many times failure creates an ending before things get waaaaay worse. This supposed failure with MJ is helping you wake up more to who he is. This failure with MJ is helping you take him off that pedastal you had him on and you are seeing him more and more for who he REALLY is. Whenever you do stop and think about him and all the wonderful things he is and you find yourself getting caught up in that loop of fantasy, remind yourself ALSO of who he is not. Whenever we truly see someone, it’s about ALL that they are, not just the good stuff. If we are going to truly love someone, be connected to someone, we need to see the best parts and the worst parts TOGETHER. Sooooo many people get pulled back into relationships or choose relationships based on all the good about their person. True, authentic connection is based on the FULL picture. It helps keep us grounded, it helps keep us out of the fantasy and it keeps the relationship grounded in reality. Make sense?“I need to be strong and hold them accountable to be their best self” – this is NOT your job. What does being “strong” even mean? What would that look like in your life? Remember, you don’t need to be anything for anyone else. Your guy can be his best self, even in many moments when you are not so strong. Your guy is solid and doesn’t need you to be anything FOR him. He just needs you to be yourself. He can take care of himself. How does this concept feel for you?
“Also, I feel that I am good at putting a poker face to MJ or guys in general to seal any interest until I am sure about their interest to me and how their character is. I feel that I need to change this. I think leaving my “agreeable girl” image could get messy at first, like you said, MJ is not used to it but if our friendship or relationship is real, he shouldn’t mind me being my real authentic self right?” Correct. If he does mind, then you will learn more about him. He has been used to you being a certain way for quite awhile, so he may have a bit of a protest kind of response, but that’s normal. It’s not to say that he won’t adjust to it. It might take a bit of time, but in the end, you will gain more respect because that is what you are now requiring – because that is how you are treating yourself. He will either align with that or he will fall away. Either way, that is about his path. One of my favorites quotes: “I fill myself up with love and send that out into the world. How others respond is their path, how I respond is mine.” Bottom line is, how you show up in the world and treat people and yourself is all that matters. People will have varying responses to that. It sometimes is good feedback and sometimes senseless feedback. Regardless, you still have to like who you are. There are MANY times I have made decisions that caused someone to hurt, that made me appear to be selfish, uncaring, unkind etc. I’ve heard it all. I’ve understood their perception, but I still stayed strong in knowing what was right for me. I had to be okay that they were hurting. I had to be okay that they were going to have a story about me that I couldn’t change or control. It’s tough, I’ll tell ya, but each time it brought me closer to myself as I chose to love, respect and honor what I needed. I didn’t betray or abandon myself to another person’s needs. That’s integrity. Does this make sense?
I’m going to address your list tomorrow. It still has a lot of that flavor of “wanting.” We’ll talk more about it though.
Heidi
Hello there!
Your English is great! Well done!
You have a pretty complicated situation. I’m so sorry you are going through this. It’s awful to watch the man you love slip through your fingers.
There is a big red flag here and it’s a deal breaker. I know how amazing he is, so this might be really hard to hear. The deal breaker is that he runs. That is his coping mechanism. He doesn’t just run into his cave and process on his own and then comes back out, he breaks up. That’s the deal breaker part. When the stress is high enough, he will retreat and leave you alone. If you get back together, this is what will happen down the road. It won’t matter if you are married or living together or whatever situation you are in…if he is under enough stress, he will leave. I get it though. I used to be like that. I was okay with leaving too. It was safer to leave than to stay put and risk being hurt. It’s a quality that will ruin any relationship.
I know there are sooooo many amazing things about him though. That’s the hard part. This 1 thing will always be there and can ruin it all in a matter of seconds. The thing is, he is not TRULY investing his heart, fully and completely. People that have his coping mechanism, always have 1 foot out the door (although you would never know it most of the time). That is why he is able to leave so easily. He is NOT fully invested and who knows if he ever will be. Being that I used to be like him, I had to work VERY DEEP in my heart and face all the fears and traumas that activated that coping mechanism. And it is still there. It will never go away, but what has changed for me, is that I am so much stronger and have very healthy skills to help me deal with the stress so I don’t have to run. Now…I would rather love deeply than to run away so I don’t get hurt. He is not there yet and he may never get there. Who knows. I am saying this just to help you understand more about the kind of guy you are wanting to hold your heart.
As far as texting him, how do you feel about sending him something encouraging? An article? maybe some that can help encourage him with what he is going through… A youtube video? maybe something to make him laugh…An ecard? Maybe just a simple note that says “I’m thinking about you and sending you and your family a lot of good vibes. Know that you are not and I’m still here to help in any way possible. Big hug.”
How does saying something like that feel for you?
Heidi
Hello there!
Your English is great! Well done!
You have a pretty complicated situation. I’m so sorry you are going through this. It’s awful to watch the man you love slip through your fingers.
There is a big red flag here and it’s a deal breaker. I know how amazing he is, so this might be really hard to hear. The deal breaker is that he runs. That is his coping mechanism. He doesn’t just run into his cave and process on his own and then comes back out, he breaks up. That’s the deal breaker part. When the stress is high enough, he will retreat and leave you alone. If you get back together, this is what will happen down the road. It won’t matter if you are married or living together or whatever situation you are in…if he is under enough stress, he will leave. I get it though. I used to be like that. I was okay with leaving too. It was safer to leave than to stay put and risk being hurt. It’s a quality that will ruin any relationship.
I know there are sooooo many amazing things about him though. That’s the hard part. This 1 thing will always be there and can ruin it all in a matter of seconds. The thing is, he is not TRULY investing his heart, fully and completely. People that have his coping mechanism, always have 1 foot out the door (although you would never know it most of the time). That is why he is able to leave so easily. He is NOT fully invested and who knows if he ever will be. Being that I used to be like him, I had to work VERY DEEP in my heart and face all the fears and traumas that activated that coping mechanism. And it is still there. It will never go away, but what has changed for me, is that I am so much stronger and have very healthy skills to help me deal with the stress so I don’t have to run. Now…I would rather love deeply than to run away so I don’t get hurt. He is not there yet and he may never get there. Who knows. I am saying this just to help you understand more about the kind of guy you are wanting to hold your heart.
As far as texting him, how do you feel about sending him something encouraging? An article? maybe some that can help encourage him with what he is going through… A youtube video? maybe something to make him laugh…An ecard? Maybe just a simple note that says “I’m thinking about you and sending you and your family a lot of good vibes. Know that you are not and I’m still here to help in any way possible. Big hug.”
How does saying something like that feel for you?
Heidi
Hi Kayla,
Welcome! Would you mind sharing more details? I’m not sure I fully understand. He broke up because he wanted to be with BOTH of you? Is he with her now? Are you willing to have an open relationship? Do you still talk to him? Does he show any kind of interest of getting back together? How long were you together before breaking up?
The more details, the better! It helps us offer better guidance as to your next steps.
Heidi
Hi Neelma,
Welcome! You have such an interesting story and it’s much more layered than maybe you even realize.
I understand why you did what you did. I’m a little confused though. You said that for a year he was always talking about another woman he was in love with. Yet he was also showing feelings towards you? Have you guys ever met in person? Was there any kind of agreement about what the relationship was? I’m not sensing that you guys are on the same page. Would you say that is accurate?
Here is the thing. You are taking responsibility for the “failed” relationship, but it ALWAYS takes 2. Yes, you crossed a line. Also, from what you learned about him through your fake profile, you discovered that he was revealing information about himself that you didn’t know. He doesn’t sound like the kind of guy who wants to invest in anyone seriously. He sounds like the kind of guy who plays with a lot of different women and never truly gets serious about any of them. Am I understanding this correctly?
You may have not made the best decision, but he also is not supporting the kind of relationship you are interested in having with him. You may have broken his trust, but he also is not trustworthy. Is this truly the kind of guy you want holding your heart?
Thoughts?
Heidi
Holy smokes Vino!!! So good to hear from you! I have been wondering about how you were doing! So great to hear from you! Did you find a new job??
What a fascinating update! You really are taking quite the journey aren’t you? Well done! It sounds like you are getting to know a lot of different parts of yourself. You are doing such a fabulous job stopping and really questioning yourself and your feeling. Our feeling and emotions are NOT the facts, although we love to let them be – which is what gets us all in trouble most of the time. Whenever I get triggered, there are 4 things I always remind myself of. 1. My emotions are not facts 2. Don’t believe any judgments 3. Do no harm (to myself or others) 4. Know this will pass.
I love that JB FINALLY called. I’m glad that you guys are having some great conversations together. I’m glad that he is exposing you to new parts of yourself. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that! He is serving a great purpose for you in your life. Whether or not he ends up being a long term guy for you, who knows. It doesn’t matter. Just keep bringing yourself back to the present moment and deal with all the gifts that right in front of you right now. One day at a time. Which it sounds like you are a doing really good job with! I just an sooooo excited for you and all the stuff you are unraveling inside. It is the theme of the coronavirus! Everyone is unravelling on so many levels. People will either take advantage of it or become victim to it. I’m glad to know you are one of the wise ones!!!
Please keep sharing!!!!
Heidi
Hi Roxanne,
Well done giving him space and just letting him be! I know how hard that is though.
How about saying some like, “Hey there. I think it was good for us that we took some space. I am ready to re-connect, so whenever you are ready, just reach out. I will still keep giving you space until you tell me otherwise. Big hug!” Or something to that effect. Basically, you just want to let him know you are ready, but don’t force him into a time. It comes across as controlling – like you are ready so he should be ready. You want him to feel free to come to you when he is truly ready and not on your timetable. Does that make sense?
Also, let’s talk a bit about what you want to say to him. What’s your plan?
Heidi
Hi Rhonda!
Great to meet you…welcome! Thank you for sharing your situation with us here.
I know this is not what you want to hear at the moment. I completely get how strong the feelings are for him. The reality is though, you barely know him. You have had some wonderful and amazing conversations which have been so nourishing and empowering for you. You are coming out of 2 decades of an abusive relationship. You have a lot of rebuilding to do and that kind of rebuilding and healing is most effective and best done alone. Stepping into another relationship before having an extended amount of time on your own is a recipe for disaster. You need time to allow for all the layers of emotions and thoughts and limiting patterns to emerge. It would be a really good thing to work with a therapist if you are willing. It’s no different than an alcoholic or drug addict going sober. Staying OUT of relationship is crucial until they can discover who they are separate from the substance and develop a healthier skillset to deal with the stressors in their life. Your drug was a very unhealthy and damaging marriage and you have just entered the “sober” phase where you are away from what was causing you harm and now you have a lot to face in yourself.
It also sounds like he has quite a bit of stuff to deal with as well. So I would recommend to slow things down (in your mind) and view the conversations as healing and helpful, but recognize that you need a lot of time to get to know yourself before you can be an effective partner for anyone.
How does this make you feel?
Heidi
Hi Jean,
It’s a very hard reality that all of us are capable of anything. When life mixes together just the right kind of stress and emotions, it becomes an elixir to cause people to do things they normally never would do. When and how and if those elixirs show up in a person’s life, who knows what that mixture will cause them to do. I’ve experienced those elixirs a couple of times, but each time I learned the signs and symptoms of when I am heading into trouble. I know NOW that I better get my shit together or I will be faced with possibly making some very damaging choices. I use myself as an example, because I am a highly aware, educated, very skilled with my emotions kind of person and those elixirs still have gotten the best of me at times. They can get the best of anyone – no one is immune to them. Does this make sense?
I say this to validate your concern, but to also help you get connected to the truth that he is human and could end up messing up and cheating on you for whatever reason. He also may never cheat on you. Who knows what is on the path ahead of you guys. What is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to recognize is that IF he does end up making that kind of choice, you will be okay. I always coach people to keep the trust in themselves instead of handing it away to their partners. Meaning, instead of saying “I trust you…” you instead say “I trust myself that no matter what your choices are in your life, I will be okay. I am resilient and I know that even if you make a choice that causes me a lot of pain, I will get through it, I will heal and I will become a better person for it.” That is what it means to have trust in yourself and keeping the trust in yourself instead of handing it over to him. Because truth is, you may feel like you can trust him, but because he is human, he will break that trust in many different ways throughout your path together simply because he is human. So keep connected to yourself, your inner strength and the truth that no matter what happens, you will be okay – trust yourself.
Does this help at all?
Heidi
Hey there! Just checking in and seeing how you are doing. I’m sure you are super busy right now, so no rush in posting anything soon. Just know you are being thought about and you matter!
Heidi
I bet you are tired! Moving is absolutely exhausting. I have done it soooooo many times in my life. I somehow end up moving once a year or once every few years. I have a whole system in place and boxes etc. so that it’s as easy as possible, but it’s still exhausting, so I know what you are going through. I totally get that kind of tired where you do stupid brainless things like break things and hurt yourself…lol.
Doesn’t it feel good to miss somebody? It’s great feedback as to where you are in your heart with that person. He is becoming a pretty solid part of your life. I love it and am excited for you!
Things are so interesting here as tensions rise with all the protests. It’s leaking into the smallest parts of life. I’ve had a few clients who are white that are getting some pretty nasty remarks. One client was running outside, early in the morning and someone yelled outside their house at him “White privilege!” Another client of mine had her roommate (who is Mexican and a hairdresser – and has been struggling financially because of covid) yell at my client (my client’s online business is booming like crazy – so she is doing the best she ever has financially) when she asked her roommate if she was okay. Her roommate just kept yelling at her accusing her of her “white privilege” and saying she is was using her “white power” to make her roommate feel bad about herself when my client offered to cover the utility bills for a few months. It’s just so sad to me how people just keep pointing fingers at everyone as their own emotions get all stirred up – and that people feel okay saying harmful things to whomever they are targeting. And I’ve heard so many more stories of this. There still is quite a bit of unrest and uncertainty with Covid numbers going up pretty high in certain states, things open, things not open, the riots and people just starting to go “stir crazy” so few people have healthy skills to deal with the emotions that are coming up. Personally, I am doing great and loving this period of time in my life. I’m doing a lot of deeper and much needed transformational work on myself. I find that most people are either taking advantage of this time or becoming victim to it. How is your area handling opening up a little more?
Heidi
