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Hi Katy,
You can talk with us as long as you want to! We are happy to stick with you through this transition period as well. No need to disconnect and go deal with this on your own. We are your support through this journey of discovering yourself, no matter what phase you are in!
If you close the doors completely, you are creating a brand new pattern, which is a great start! Yes, it’s painful and uncomfortable too. It’s never fun to release patterns that are causing you harm, because in some way, they were serving you and are part of how you know yourself. So making this choice to close the door, may be uncomfortable, but it WILL support your vision of increasing your self-love. Basically, all decisions can be made from this one question “Is it loving TO ME, to do….” The answer many times, is not always clear, but it’s an important question to start with as it leads to other places. When you start with that question, it helps you exist in your life and become a priority. This will be really hard at first, because it will feel uncomfortable. If you are feeling comfortable, that would be a sign that you most likely are operating from old patterns.
As you close the door on this guy, how are you going to support yourself? How are you going to process your hurt? How are you going to take care of yourself as you deal with this loss?
Heidi
Hi Emilie,
Thank you for the update! This is great stuff!
I’m so glad you were finally able to tap into your feelings of the loss. Family leaving, the painting and your ex calling it quits and not even asking how you are…it’s all hard and it sounds like it was hard enough that it activated your tears. Important right?
You still need some time to heal. You may not be directly connected to all your feelings, but if you watch your behaviors and decisions in your life, you will see some things that will show you, you are still carrying some hurt and need more time to heal. For example, you not wanting to deal with guys right now is a symptom of what is happening in your subconscious. Learning the language of your subconscious is one of the most powerful skills that can help you through your life. The subconscious communicates through our behaviors and decisions and if you know yourself well, you will notice when certain things are “off.” That’s about as much of a clue that you will get. So noticing you are not much into dealing with guys right now, would be a symptom. Your job is to then go down the rabbit hole to discover “Am I hurting or am I just needing to rest and take a break?” Once you shine a light and your attention on that “symptom” you will be able to gather more information. My guess is, regardless of how you are waking up to the dysfunctional aspects of your relationship, your heart was invested, you had hope for a future with him and he didn’t want to take that journey with you. Rejection is a very powerful trigger because it can trigger deep, unprocessed emotions that live in the catacombs (deep, small, hidden areas) of our psyche. My guess is, you are probably hurt, more than you realize and although your mind rationalizes it away, your heart has a different story.
Have you worked with your Coach on this yet?
Heidi
Hey there!
“Don’t you think he is quite a healthy type of guy?” I don’t know and neither do you. You haven’t met in person yet. It takes some time, even in person, to start to see ALL sides of someone and how they actually respond IN THE MOMENT vs. over texting or email. This is the biggest danger of getting connected and starting to love someone through long distance. In reality, BOTH of you are falling for a fantasy version of each other. The fantasy is the story you guys are making up about each other in your minds about the kind of person you THINK each other are, but in actuality, you have not EXPERIENCE with each other to know any of it is true. Nothing can replace being in person and seeing and experiencing a person’s initial reactions to their life.
“I have a question needing your advice. How do you talk about finances?” You don’t! You want to talk about joint accounts type of stuff and you haven’t met yet. SLOW DOWN!!!! I know this may feel impossible as you both are already imagining building a life together long term. The chemistry is flowing, the connection is strong and it’s great! Enjoy it for sure AND remember there is a HUGE missing piece here of being in person. What if he is horrible in bed or maybe he kisses in a way that is slobbery and agressive? What if he has a temper? What if he is not a touchy feely or romantic kind of guy? What if what he thinks he is, doesn’t actually show up in real life (I’ve seen this a ton btw)? If you want to talk about money, the more appropriate way to talk about it, is learning about his veiws of money. How does he relate to it? What does he think about it? What are his limiting beliefs around money? What are his good habits and not so good habits with money? You want to learn about his relationship with money – NOT how to manage money together. Make sense?
“I really don’t want to mess up this relationship by holding on to my past stories, fear and controlling thoughts. Any suggestions on how to let go of this negative thoughts?” This is impossible. We ALL hold onto past stories and most of the time, we don’t know what we are holding onto until someone triggers us. So it’s okay! It’s not the story that messes up relationships, it’s what we do or don’t do with those stories that messes up relationship. Whenever negative or limiting beliefs come up, deal with them instead of projecting. This is where I ALWAYS suggest for people to have a Coach or Therapist to work with. When you have an expert in your support system, you can work with them to clear those stories so you don’t get triggered as much AND when you do get triggered, you have someone to help you move through it in a much more healthy way. Everyone needs this forever! I used to need it consistently for months, but now that I have cleared so much of my gunk, I only use my Coach every once in a while when I face bigger triggers. BUT…I also know that when my guy shows up at some point, I will most likely be having weekly sessions with her so I have accountability and clarity as I move through something new in my life that is going to bring up and uproot my triggers. Basically, it’s okay to get triggered and have stories. The goal is to heal them when they come up.
This is a good conversation!!! Well done staying connected here and being vulnerable. You really are doing a great job!
Heidi
Hi Katy,
The fact that your main interest is about HIM and not putting your FULL 100% attention on yourself, is a symptom of you wanting to escape what you need to work on. There is NO WAY in 30 days that you will be able to shift this pattern you have. It’s going to take some time for you to truly re-design how you interact with your self and others. You WILL go back to square 1 MANY times. You have decades to undo. And if you do this all alone and without the guidance of someone who is an expert, like a therapist or coach (who can help you accelerate the process), then it could take YEARS.
With that being said, it’s not to say that you can’t practice with him. If he decided he wanted to work on himself as well, then that’s great! If he is someone who is not interested in truly improving his own patterns, then you will just be stepping back into the same exact pattern. It’s no different than someone dealing with an addiction. You are addicted to helping people at the expense of yourself. Would you tell someone coming out of recovery to re-connect with old friends they drank or did drugs with? Or would you encourage them to create a new way of being, new friends to socialize with and a new environment? It’s no different when dealing with emotions and patterns. If this is a pattern you truly want to change, then the very first choice you need to make is for YOU! Would it be a loving and caring thing for YOU to step back into a relationship with a guy who just disconnected like that? Is your reason for re-connecting with him even clear? Or is it your woundedness and VERY STRONG pattern that is wanting to re-connect? These are questions to consider.
No, being friends is NOT possible as long as you have feelings for him. If you were indifferent and didn’t care what he was doing, THEN you could be friends. But that is not the space you are in. How you are talking about him tells me you are in your addiction pattern and you wanting to re-connect will relieve the “withdrawal” symptoms you are having. So I would encourage you to close the door completely and deal with the feelings and discomfort that comes up fully and completely. Let him go. THEN…once you’ve processed everything and do not have a need to re-connect, THEN you can be friends should something like that show up as an opportunity.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Vino,
Wow…first, what a powerful experience you had going to church and spending some quiet time with yourself. I would do that every Tuesday! It sounds pretty amazing! I wish more churches would offer something like that!
Second, you have finally tapped into some core hurts and loss. Of course their experience is about you too. Every single choice they make and how they interact in the world will affect you. I believe it’s the hardes thing in the world for a mother to learn how to step back once the children have become adults. They are beings that YOU created. They are parts of you, walking outside of your body and living in this crazy world. Even if they weren’t transgender, you still would need to be facing the loss of them as they separate and become their own beings. Maybe reconsider a support group? That’s the place where people WILL listen to you. The moderator controls the conversations and one of their main jobs is to allow space for people to share their struggles and questions. You will have other people there that purposefully will want to listen and support you as they will be able to understand your challenges like no other people can. I bet it would be really powerful for you as you learn how to navigate this. There truly is no need to go through this alone. JB is nice, but he will NEVER be able to understand. Find support!!! What you are going through is HUGE and challenging and it’s the kind of HUGE and challenging that I would be reaching out for support if it were me. You already have some stories around what it would like, but truth is, you’ve never tried it. So tell yourself a new story about how you could feel supported, heard and connected as you go through this layer you are dealing with. How amazing would THAT feel?! Just something to think about.
Heidi
Hi Vino,
The first thing I want to say is it’s OKAY to feel foggy and confused! The more you resist it or fight against it, the more it will intensify. What if you could just start to feel COMFORTABLE being confused. What if you just started to feel that whatever decision you make, it’s the best you can do for right now and that’s okay! I would suggest to sit down and have a conversation WITH the confusion. “Why are you hear? What are you here to teach me? What would you like to tell me or show me? I’m listening.” Get COZY with it!
Write EXACTLY that to JB. Just be authentic about your struggle right now. It’s just sharing who you are and letting him have a bit of a window into how you process. Something like, “Man. I’ve been struggling a lot the past few days. So much confusion, fogginess and indecisiveness. Not so fun, but it’s also okay. It’s helping me practice and learn how to get more comfortable when things do not flow for me. It’s the rollercoaster of life isn’t it? I’m also taking a lot of baths, watching some kickass movies and making sure I’m not pulling out whatever hair I have left. lol.” Thoughts?
Lastly, I’m sooooo glad you feel so connected to your BJJ group and those men were honest and authentic in sharing their hearts. Men DO feel quite a bit. It wouldn’t say that it’s more than women though. We are just built very differently and experience things on a level of intensity that is just different. Sometimes more than and sometimes less than men, but mostly just different. Men feel depth and emotions differently than us ladies. No one is better or worse for it. I love though, that those men have heart and were willing to share it with the group. Sooooo powerful and beautiful, right???
Heidi
Hi Katy!
I love all the realizations that you are connecting to! It’s powerful stuff! You are taking the very first steps towards healing and growth. Understanding and knowing your patterns is the very first layer. Now you get to watch yourself. I suggest questioning yourself and your decisions A LOT in the beginning. Stopping and asking yourself, “Is this loving TO ME by meeting this person’s needs?” Your ability to love and care for people is so natural to you. That’s not the area you need to work on. You need to go the places that are NOT natural and the places that are VERY UNCOMFORTABLE for you – and then notice what kinds of thoughts come up. For example, let’s say a friend wants you to drive them 45 minutes away to pick up their car at the mechanics. And let’s say the only time you can do it is at the end of a super long work day. You REALLY want to say no because it’s just asking a lot of you at the end of your day. The quiet time you get to have at home is VERY important for you because it’s the time you regenerate and fill the tank back up again before the next day. Do you say yes or no to helping your friend? If saying yes feels natural, then you need to say no! If saying no makes you feel REALLY uncomfortable, then say no. Then watch what kinds of thoughts come up. Maybe thoughts like “You are so selfish, you are not very supportive, you are not being a good friend” will come up. That lets you know the programs that are running in your subconscious that are causing you to take your gift and overuse it – the programs that are keeping you from self love and taking care of yourself better. Does this make sense?
“Although I love to take care of others and love to take care of him, sometimes I am burnt out, and I guess in some moments, I put my needs for him to take care of me. This is probably what I should work on: taking care of myself. I never realized that’s what I did. I should become more independent and put care into myself. If I do make my gift a strength more than it could be a weakness, would my relationships be “easier” to control, such as when there are problems or when they meet an end? Maybe I’m just not ready for the “relationship” I had with him? If I truly can take care of myself, then would it be “easier” for me to connect with him again?” I don’t know if it will make it easier to connect with HIM per se. Remember that one of the reasons he was attracted to you in the first place was because of your desire to overgive. If you started to finally take care of yourself and not need HIM to feel good and balanced in your life, he may or may not be attracted to that. It’s not that you don’t ask for your needs, it’s that you have a commitment to yourself that you are going to get your needs met, whether it’s through him or through other resources. There are MANY times in a relationship when your partner just can’t be there for you. Then what? It’s that part that is missing in you. You have only relied on outside sources to help you vs. developing your primary source of support from within yourself. So once you get this part of yourself up and running, you WILL attract a man who will WANT that from you and support that and who will also do that for himself. That’s one of the foundations of a healthy relationship….BOTH people have the knowledge, skillset and connection to themselves for self-care and self-love and they BOTH support each other from that space.
Thoughts?
Heidi
That’s great! It’s always important to just check in with yourself and your deeper feelings before deciding how to react and how to respond. That is the BIG advantage to texting vs. being in person – although there are many disadvantages too. lol.
I’m glad to hear you guys are getting closer and that he is showing up consistently again. I’m sure it soothed that part of you that panicked. Any further thought to working with someone to deal with those parts of you? That part of you is not gone. Robin WILL disconnect again and he will hurt you, disappoint you etc. so it’s good to clear out as much gunk as you can so you can handle those moments with much more ease. Just a thought.
Heidi
Hello there!
Great response!!! Let’s dive in…
“Is it unhealthy to expect this from your loved one? What if I keep giving and he never knows what I want to make me happy, like in my previous marriage? That was my fear by not voicing what I want. It will be on me that he doesn’t know it ‘cuz he can’t read my mind, especially when we are long distant.” Correct. NEVER expect anyone to know what you want. Each and every single time you need something, you say it. DO NOT expect anyone to be a mind reader. Even if he knows what you need, he may be so wrapped up in his own world that he is just not connected. That’s why communication is so important.
“it would make me really happy if you would watch the movie with me”. Vs will you sacrifice what you want for me? I can see of the tone of wanting him to give up a part of his happiness for me. Is that your concern? I guess in my definition of love, sacrifice is part of that. Act of love (sacrifice) to me is romantic. Like Jesus sacrifice his life for us.” I understand how this would be romantic for you. I would sacrifice my life for my mother. I would push my dog out of the way of a car and sacrifice my life for his…without even thinking about it. That’s where the word sacrifice belongs NOT in small acts of daily life. Sacrificing is a VERY intense word energetically. The more appropriate word for daily living activities is compromise. How you used that sentence to get him to watch a movie with you was quite manipulative. You posed your question in a way that would increase his level of guilt and that he would not be a good partner if he didn’t watch the movie with you – which is not true. Whether he watched the movie or not with you, has NOTHING to do with how good of a partner he is – unless this was part of a pattern that you were noticing…but it doesn’t sound like that is the case.
“Even if he doesn’t watch the movie with me, I will feel a bit disappointed and unsupported at that moment” This is the real story here. Instead of you being very direct and asking for what you wanted, you posed a question in a way that would make him feel guilty for meeting his own needs. And if he chose that for himself over meeting your needs, you have the story around that, as feeling “unsupported.” Disappointed? Of course. Anyone would feel that. Unsupported? That”s not the truth with this guy. That’s a deeper, core issue in YOU. That is coming from your past relationship and does not belong on this current guy – unless you are starting to notice a pattern – which again, I am not hearing that is how you feel with this guy. When you have a need that you want met, you want to think about inspiring him to help you vs. guilting him into it. So you would say something like “I’ve had a really hard day and I so badly just want to watch a movie with you and zone out. It would bring me so much comfort if you would join me. I know you may not feel like it and that’s okay. I understand. What if we find a movie that you love? I just feel like being with you tonight and watching a movie would help me so much.” It’s kind of like a sales pitch so to speak. You want him to feel WILLING to help you, you want him to feel GOOD about helping you and you want him to feel EMPOWERED by helping you. You do NOT want him to feel pressured into helping you and you definitely do NOT want him to feel guilty if he doesn’t. Does this make more sense?
“What would you say if you were me if your guy say this to you? Will you tell him that he doesn’t have to do things that he doesn’t want to do?” I would say, “I understand and will always be okay if you are not able to help me. The most important thing to me is that you take care of yourself and make sure you are in balance. I do not want my needs to add pressure to your life. I know how to take care of myself too and have lots of other ways to make sure I am okay. You are my favorite way though 🙂
“I read somewhere that men can be selfish and think of themselves first. I know this can’t be true with all men. Selfish is not good but self-love is healthy right?” PEOPLE can be selfish. It’s not exclusive to just men. And what is selfish anyways? Men just operate differently in the world than us ladies. Do they have a tendency to be more selfish? Maybe. Is that bad? NO. Isn’t being selfish the same as loving your self? There are 2 sides to it. There’s a healthy version and an unhealthy version and then the range that lives between those 2 extremes. It is sooooo crucial to be selfish sometimes. It’s not a bad or wrong thing. If you really think about it, if someone calls you selfish, they are just mad be they are not getting what THEY want. So they are being selfish as well and then getting angry and pointing the finger at the person doing the very thing (being selfish) they are also wanting to do and be. You WANT a guy who feels comfortable being selfish – self loving. You WANT a guy who is confident in knowing where his line is and when he is over-giving and knows how to keep himself in balance – even if it means saying not to you.
“My big question is how do I know if I am in a healthy relationship? We can’t always be happy 100% of the time and there will be a learning curve with each other all the time right? How do I know if certain tensions are healthy and certain ones are seeds to be toxic and codependent?” You know you are in a healthy relationship when you feel MORE of who you are, not less…when you feel MORE EXPANSIVE, MORE JOY, MORE HAPPINESS. Dr. Gottman puts it quite simply: Stable marriages have a 5:1 ratio of positivity to negativity. Unstable marriages are .08:1. He also says “Conflict is okay as long as it is supplemented by kindness and empathy.” So for now, it sounds like you are quite happy and things are going really well. You are expanding and not contracting, so the door gets to stay open!
Is this helpful?
Heidi
Hi Julie,
Wow! It’s shocking, right? It’s so confusing when something like this happened and the reality is, you may never know. What you DO know is that he is not someone who is able to be honest and authentic with where he is at. To completely disappear with no regard or respect for your experience, is telling you that he is not someone who is a good communicator and not someone you can count on.
What happened? It’s possible he is already in a serious relationship and he maybe 1 of those guys who cheats or just plays around on texts and meeting in person was not a good thing. (Just FYI…a survey came out about Tinder and about 50% of the people on there were already in a serious relationship). If he was cheating, maybe he got caught. Or something terrible could have happened and he is in a hospital somewhere.
You can send him a text saying something like, “Hey there. I haven’t heard from you in a week and that is very unusual for you. I hope everything is okay! If you are okay and not in a hospital bed somewhere and you just don’t feel like you want to connect anymore, it would be nice to hear it directly. If I don’t hear from you by the end of this week, I will take that as your answer and close the door and wish you the very best.”
How does saying something like that feel for you?
Heidi
Hi Emily,
I am sooooo so sorry for what you are going through right now. It’s so difficult to watch someone you are deeply connected to, not fight for you.
How long have you guys been together? Have you broken up over the same exact reason each time?The first thing to understand is, it IS a lot of pressure to not feel like you are giving your partner enough time and connection. If he is feeling drained, that means his life feels like he can’t keep up. It means he is more in survival mode and just trying to hold on. It means he doesn’t have a lot of energy to do his life AND make sure you feel like you have enough quality time with him.
Let’s talk about this for a little bit. What do you consider quality time? What does that time look like and how much were you asking for compared to what he wants to give? How are you communicating your need to him? What are you saying and what is his response?
The thing is, he won’t come back if he is just going to step into the same situation. If he isn’t going to change his work situation and how he lives his life, then YOU need to shift your perspective and the design of how you function with him. Is this something you are willing to explore?
Heidi
Hey there!
I REALLY want to encourage you guys to slow down. I understand the chemistry and connection and the feelings of love. Reality is, you guys have not met in person and neither of you has any clue the kind of people you are in daily life, daily interactions, daily stresses. So talking about kids is a moot point right now. There is no need to teach him anything about being a husband or father until you guys are able to establish that you actually like each other in person and that there is a way for you guys to actually be together. So for now, just have some fun. Talk about the subject, but I wouldn’t take it too seriously.
“So I asked him if he will ever sacrifice what he wants for me.” I’m wondering where this question comes from? It’s actually a pretty intense question. If I were coaching him, I would tell him that is a yellow flag that you asked that, in that way and it’s a window into some of your deep core issues. So let’s talk about this a bit.
“When I thanked him, he said “anything for you.” His response is ALSO a yellow flag. It’s not sweet. It’s a co-dependent type of response. Healthy people DO NOT believe that way. If I were his coach, I would have encouraged him to NOT watch a movie with you to see how you would handle not getting your need met at the time.
“He said having me as his gf in his life is what makes him feel successful everyday. Lol…. You see? I should feel blessed and not complain about this sweet answer right? Any other question suggestions to get him to share more about his work or travel? Or should is just enjoy the bliss?” Again, NOT a sweet answer. I mean it is sweet, but it’s not a healthy kind of sweet. Yellow flag here! He is demonstrating quite a few co-dependent behavioral patterns and energy so far. I know it feels good to have a guy so focused on you, calling you beautiful and giving you a lot of attention. It’s like having a BIG, GIANT glass of water after being dehydrated for a super long time. He is avoiding your questioning. He is not answering and sharing his ACTUAL life with you. He is distracting you by always putting the focus back onto you with his romantic sweet talk and future talk with you. It sounds like this is a pattern as well. I wonder what he is hiding. If he is not allowed to talk about his work, that is one thing. But if he is allowed to share things with you, what is stopping him from letting you into that part of his life?
So just start to pay attention. Pay attention to his patterns and how much he is actually sharing about his feelings about his work, his life, HIS stuff and how much does he deflect to talking about you and building your lives together.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Bonnie,
Welcome to the forum! Thank you for sharing your question with us.
Yes, you want to wait, but I have a few questions. Was there any flirting at all during the few times you guys interacted? You said you had a nice visit. What does that mean? Did you feel a connection?
Yes, the glamour shot is a little much. Just asking would have been plenty. If he is not responding, there are a MILLION reasons as to why that could be happening. Maybe he didn’t get the text, maybe he is gay or transgender, maybe he is dating someone right now, maybe he just doesn’t want to deal with anyone right now, maybe he has a terminal illness, or it could be as simple as him not feeling interested. No matter what his reasons are, he needs to be the one who leads you into dating. You put out the signals and if he doesn’t respond, then it would be good for you to let this guy go. Since he is living in your building, you will have a handful of interactions over time, right? You can just keep being really nice and connective and maybe something can build that way.
I know it’s hard to wait and do nothing, but it really gives you important information that you need. Is there a way you can run into him or create an interaction with him?
Heidi
Hi Rhonda,
I’m glad to hear you are finding your center again. I’m glad to hear you are realizing how his disconnect was not personal…it truly was about work.
One thing you want to really be aware of inside of yourself is HOW you use our techniques. If there was any part of you (which I’m guessing there was) that decided to become unavailable that evening at 8:30 out of spite or an energy that might have felt something like “You haven’t been available for me, so I’m not going to be available for you” that’s when you really need to stop and listen to yourself. That energy is passive-aggressive and harmful and can cause damage to the relationship. The techniques won’t be successful when used from that kind of mindset.
It’s interesting how you can still “feel” someone, even through technology right? It’s so good for him to associate feeling better after talking with you for a bit. That’s really important for a man to feel. He needs to be able to express his stresses, feel stress and discord and know that his woman can handle it. Men need to feel supported and held, they need to feel their woman can be that solid rock while they are chaos for a period of time. It sounds like that is being established, which is great!!!
The passport thing WILL be okay. Meaning, even if you don’t get it in time, there are other ways for it to be resolved. His suggestion sounds great! Meeting up somewhere in the mountains sounds pretty amazing!
How are you feeling today about all of it? What have you learned about yourself as you went through this experience with him disconnecting a bit?
Heidi
Hi Vino,
Wow! What an amazing message. Thank you for sharing soooo many of your deep thoughts and experiences.
I’m so sorry about your son. It’s awful. I have watched kids be so incredibly damaging, hurtful and harmful to their parents. Your son is obviously carrying a lot of emotions and you happen to be the target. My brothers used to do that to my mom, even into their adult years. One of my brothers, at his own wedding, sat my mom and I at the back of the room with a table full of out of town guests, while my father, cousins, aunts and uncles sat at the front of the room with him. It was painful. When family does stuff like that, it hits a level of pain and core woundedness that is like no other. I’m sorry you are having to experience your son that way.
As far as JB, I’m glad you are learning about more about him. I’m glad you did not send him that message about being a small flower not worthy of his attention!! Not good! That is you being very needy and insecure. Although it’s true how you feel, you want to ask for your needs in a more empowered way. For example, you could have said something like, “Man…I had a rough moment with my son today that has completely knocked me off my center. I feel like a horrible mother, what’s the point of trying so hard for him and I feel so small and insignificant. It’s a rough day. I know none of it is actually true, but the feelings are intense right now. Not fun! Will you just tell me that I matter? I just need to hear it from someone to help counteract my own voice. It will help me so much!” Do you see the difference?
You are doing a great job Vino. Even in the face of having such a challenging day, you turned around and pampered yourself instead of allowing yourself to sink into a deep depression or becoming passive-aggressive or becoming harmful towards yourself or your son. You are making some amazing and powerful choices, even in the middle of your pain. You are badass!!!! Seriously!
Heidi
