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Hi Rhonda,
It’s a tricky thing to lead with an open heart. In my opinion, it’s only part of the equation. I like how Brene Brown puts it. Strong back, soft front, wild heart. Strong back…have standards, boundaries and be in alignment with your truth. Soft front – stay open, stay curious, stay connective, stay authentic – even if the person in front of you disagrees. Wild heart – allow yourself to explore, be creative, expand and grow – in whatever manner it desires. Step out of the “box” and allow yourself to be free.
So leading with an open heart takes GREAT strength as it requires a person to really do a lot of internal work, releasing baggage, truly discovering who they are and figuring out how to be okay when that doesn’t fit with the person in front of you.
You ARE a wife now, and become one man’s wife when you get married to him. So behave like a wife now. Not a super fan of this statement either. It’s actually a bit sexist and quite a limited statement. That’s just my opinion though. Being a “wife” is going to mean several different things to many women. What is your definition of being a wife?
Brene Brown has a great podcast I listen to on Spotify. You should check it out!
Oh Wow! You guys really have a lot going on. I’m so sorry for everything you are going through.
I wonder…what did that wife on vacation feel sorry for you for? She obviously saw something between you guys that made her feel sad about you. What was it? And I have to say, it’s completely irresponsible and disrespectful to be offering “advice” to a couple when your drunk. That’s a DISASTER waiting to happen…and of course it turned out like that.
I’m going to be quite honest with you. He sounds like he has some very strong narcissistic tendencies. Everything is about him. He blames YOU for “cheating” even though you guys were broken up. He has cheated a handful of times. He blames you for not supporting him in HIS way, he blames you basically for everything. He is not willing to talk about anything or resolve anything. He expects you to support him and his dreams and has no interest in what you need. He makes decisions that affect you and his child without discussing them with you and when he does, he blames you for not being supportive because you ask questions. Goodness!!! Everything is YOUR fault. This is narcissism. The thing is, there is no resolving anything with someone like this.
I understand that you love him, but it’s not enough. If love were enough, we wouldn’t have over a 50% divorce rate. There are skills required to keep a relationship together, beyond love and connection. If 1 person is not willing to own up to their own baggage and mistakes and harm they have caused, there is NO chance at resolution. It ALWAYS takes both people to be on the same page of growth. All he is showing you is that he does not respect you, care about your opinion or experience, he cheats when he wants and he lives his life the way he wants and expects you to align with it. He gets to be that way though. It’s not love though. People with these strong narcissist tendencies always end up attracting co-dependents because it’s the only way for a relationship to function.
Narcissism is: meeting the needs of self at the expense of other
Co-dependent is: meeting the needs of other at the expense of selfDO you see why it’s such a good match? The ONLY way for a relationship to last and work is if the co-dependent person stays in alignment of their role to serve the narcissist. As long as you agree with what he wants, all will be okay.
Have you ever read about or looked into narcissism? If not, you may want to check it out. You can just go to youtube and look up narcissism. THere are a lot of TEdx talks about it.
I know this is not what you want to hear. Maybe it’s time for you to really wake up to what you are choosing in your life. Your goal of wanting to keep your family together is ONLY going to happen if you stay silent, stop questioning him, allowing him to do what he wants and you just follow him and let him lead you 100%. You lose yourself in the process though.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Ecaterina!!! This is so beautiful what you are saying! You are getting it! YOU ARE ENOUGH!!! Even when you are messy and not perfect, YOU ARE ENOUGH!!! Anyone who is not able to see that about you, is a person that doesn’t need to be part of your circle. It’s not their fault or your fault, it just is.
If i am in a toxic relationship, or the anxiety comes from my head? It’s both. Your anxiety has always lived inside of you. His actions and behaviors are triggering that anxiety to magnify it. So essentially, who he is doesn’t work for you AND the reaction of anxiety you have is coming from within you and your mind. I’m sure you are wondering, “If I didn’t have anxiety, would this relationship feel peaceful and be okay?” The answer is no. A guy who disconnects, a guy who is emotionally unavailable, a guy who inherently does not trust women is a guy who has his own baggage and has his own internal work to do in order to be able to offer a sustainable partnership. Same goes for you too. You have the VERY strong program that you are not enough. So you both just have some “stuff” to heal. It could work if you BOTH were committed to your own growth. If he were willing to face his resentments, fears and hurt on a deeper level, there would be a lot more potential. Since you are searching for a therapist, you are beginning that deeper journey. The thing is, we ALL are messy in so many ways, so the couples that DO work long term, are the couples that do deeper work on themselves and have an interest in becoming healthier. Those people read books, have a therapist/coach, go to workshops and retreats etc. They take ACTIONS to deal with their shadow side. That is the kind of guy that will be a perfect fit for you. You want a guy who has an internal strength that allows him to be messy and be okay with it. You want a guy who is willing to do all things for his emotional health, spiritual health, physical health. You want a guy who deeply cares and is able to face his fears instead of run from them. You want a guy who has the strength and comfort to be truly open and vulnerable. But you have to become all of those things yourself first. He is out there, ready and waiting for you to be able to also offer him the very same things!
Heidi
Hi Leonard!
Welcome! Thank you for sharing your story with us. I am sooooo so sorry for what you are going through. There is a lot of intensity that has occurred between you guys, that you both have contributed to. I think it’s a really good thing that you guys have separated. It’s a really good thing that you are finally getting help, started on some medication and are slowly getting better. This is sooooo important, because the kind of relationship you guys had together, was not healthy for either of you.
There obviously is a really beautiful connection between you guys. He feels it, you feel it. Who knows what will end up happening. Him saying you guys will NEVER get back together is just his defense mechanism. Something in him went numb. That’s his fear. Whenever walls go up suddenly, that means someone is in a lot of fear about something. He needs to face that. If he never decides to face that, he will never truly be emotionally available for anyone. The hard thing about walls that go up, it’s usually against the person you care about most. He is really defending against you because he cares for you so deeply and he doesn’t feel safe to care for you that deeply. I know it sounds weird, but it’s a pretty normal coping mechanism. There is always the potential for things to heal and for you guys to get back together. Whether it will be healthy and sustainable or not, who knows. If he does, then the potential is much higher. Your connection, underneath all the messy stuff is really beautiful. I wish that were enough to support a healthy relationship, but unfortunately, it is just a very small part. Having a healthy relationship is a skill AND it takes 2 people that are working on themselves and growing in the same direction. You are doing some good work by facing your depression and working on all your baggage. If he is not willing to do the same for himself, then he will not be a good partner…for you or anyone. For now, keep your focus on yourself. The more you heal, the odds of him wanting to re-connect will increase. Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hey there!
Welcome. I’m so so sorry for what you are going through. It sounds like over the years, a lot of things have built up. You guys have been on and off and usually that means there are a lot of unresolved feelings. Do you guys end up breaking up each time because of the same things? Is he usually the one that end it or have you both taken turns?
The very best thing you can do to start, is to keep giving him space and learning about how you can become a better partner. He said he doesn’t feel supported by you. I know you said you thought you were doing that, but do you have any idea of why he feels that way? He said you didn’t defend him. If you look back, do you understand him being upset about that? Do you feel you could have defended him or do you feel that is not how you felt at the time? I’m wondering, if the rest of the relationship was going well and he felt supported by you in other areas of the relationship, if he still would have gotten really upset about you not defending. I wonder if his current reaction and breaking up is a cumulative effect. What are your thoughts on this?
So let’s break this down a bit. What were you doing that made you feel like you were supporting him and doing what he asked of you? This has obviously been talked about before, but as you are now discovering, it’s not working. Do you have any idea what is missing?
How do you feel about him? Do you feel he is meeting your needs? Do you feel happy and fulfilled and nourished by him and the relationship?Heidi
I understand the confusion. He is BOTH. He is highly connective AND he is capable of ghosting. When stress shows up in a person’s life, a whole different side can show up. Whenever you see 2 different sides to someone, according to the circumstances, that means there is A LOT of baggage that creates what is called a “split.” This just means there are 2 very strong parts of someone that will come out, depending on the situation. The split is caused by a lot of hurt, anger, resentment etc. that are unresolved from the past. All those unresolved feelings end up creating another side to him that acts in a way that will sabotage, because it’s that part that carries all the wounds and the stories that go with them. Does this make sense? So he can be highly connective when he is in his best self and then completely disconnective when he is in his worst self. Of course I do not know him, so this is just an educated guess. It’s not an uncommon way for most people to act. That’s why clearing and healing our wounds are so important. I used to be like him actually. People thought I was super connective and then once something happened, even the smallest, tiniest thing, my emotional system would switch and I would withdraw in seconds. It was really hard for me. It took years to undo it. Even to this day that is my initial reaction, but I have cleared so much of my baggage that I am able to stop myself and make a very conscious choice to stay connected and vulnerable…something I used to hate doing when I was younger.
Desperate is an energy of you being willing to do ANYTHING to be with him. That is not what you are doing by reaching out. Reaching out is just checking in about what’s happening. You are just asking for clarity. There is nothing wrong with that. I do that all the time. Many times it creates an ending, but I’m okay with that. It’s part of my filter. I need to be me…that means I don’t play guessing games, I REQUIRE communication and I am very blunt. If someone doesn’t appreciate those parts of me, then it’s just not a good match. So you need be you and then let the chips fall where they may. There is nothing wrong with reaching out and checking in with him. But if you want to keep waiting, then you can do that too. It just depends on who you want to be. Regardless of your choice, if a relationship is going to last, it has to be able to endure things like this. So either way, you are learning about him and this relationship and whether or not it can sustain you being yourself and him being himself.
Thoughts?
Heidi
This is great! You are on a path of growth and having a professional is going to make all the difference in the world. There are going to be some really difficult moments. Remember this VERY IMPORTANT thing. Most times, you feel worse before you get better. When you start to undo, look at and face all that you have within you, it’s pretty normal to feel like you are getting worse. More emotional, more angry, more upset, more desperate etc. That is soooooo important because it’s you working through everything. It takes time. As you work through the intensity of emotions that come up, you will get to the other side of them and start to feel and see the gifts of all of it. There may be many times you will want to quit as well. STAY COMMITTED!!!! You are taking a very unusual path…a path that is not so easy, but well worth the rewards. The rewards just take some time to show up. I’m sooooo excited for you. We are here for you as well, so feel free to reach out anytime you need.
Of course you miss him like crazy and want to stalk him. I know that feeling VERY well. Well done on keeping yourself in control. You are doing some really good work and learning how to control your behaviors that are damaging. Remember that the space you are giving him is HONORING him. You want him to feel that he is safe with you. When you break those boundaries, you are saying “It doesn’t matter what you want. My needs are more important than yours.” So you controlling yourself and continuing to give him the space is letting him know that he can trust you. He can feel like you are a safe person to be with.
And loving yourself is a daily, neverending thing. I know you feel like you are on the losing end because you are still in quite a lot of pain and suffering. Every single little bit helps. Whatever you ARE doing to love yourself, it’s working. You were able to go a week without contacting him and you were able to stop yourself from stalking him again. That is a great step!!! So whatever you are doing is working!!! I”m so proud of you!
Keep us updated!!!
Heidi
Oh this is great! I hope he will follow through on what he says.
I understand that you want to do anything to keep this relationship. It’s that wounded part of you that is so desperate to be connected to feel chosen by him. What if YOU choose you? Meaning, what if between now and then, you spent your time talking to that part of yourself saying things like, “You are worth loving and fighting for. I choose you. It’s okay if he doesn’t choose you. I CHOOSE YOU. I know you may end up feeling hurt because he doesn’t want to put the effort in, but you know what? We will be okay. We are resilient and resourceful and we will fight for healing. It will only hurt for little bit and then we will get back up on our feet and we will have new experiences. There is a guy out there who would be feel honored to be in our life.” Fill yourself up with positive thoughts, fill yourself up with the TRUTH that no matter what he says or does, it DOES NOT DEFINE your value. Remember, he is not THAT great. He has all kinds of issues as well, so doing anything and everything to keep him, is you fighting more for him than yourself…and that will ALWAYS have some major consequences. You have strength in you Ecaterina. Now is an INCREDIBLE time to use it, speak up and express how you are feeling and fight for what you deserve and truly accept nothing less than that…even if it means losing him. He will respect you that way. If you just give into anything HE wants, he will not respect you. He will not say that, but I guarantee he will feel that. Remember…YOU teach people how to treat you. If you don’t respect and honor yourself, he won’t either. You can do this!!!
Here is a phrase you can practice. “When you do___________________________ it makes me feel_______________.” This is a really great way to share how you feel. You can maybe start the conversation by saying, “I’m really glad we get to talk. Thank you. I want to talk about where we are at together. I feel like we might be on a different pages, so I thought I’d just check in and understand your mindset. I love that you made the incredible effort to come visit me. That said a lot! While you were here, I did see the Tinder app on the main bar, which made me guess that it’s an app that you actively use. Then you went home and it felt like you disconnected again. So I’m curious about how you are feeling about us….honestly.”
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Upasna,
Welcome! Thank you for sharing your challenge with us here. It’s so incredibly difficult to watch a person pull away and completely disconnect, especially when you don’t understand why. Let’s see if we can come up with something to figure this out a little more.
My guess is, he may be completely overwhelmed. With everything that is happening for him, adding in 1 more person (you) to connect with and think about may be just too much.
What IS important to first understand here, is that regardless of what is happening for him, you are experiencing what he is like under a great amount of stress. He has chosen to not connect and completely disappear vs. communicating with you whatever it is that he needs. This is important information to know about him. I always coach people that you need to choose who you love according to who that person is IN THEIR WORST moments, not their best moments. How do they treat you? How do they treat themselves? How do they treat the other people involved in the situation? This is the aspect of the relationship that will make or break it, regardless of how amazing things are when they are good. So you are learning through this, what his coping mechanism is under stress….he disconnects. I’m just mentioning this for you to keep this in mind.
What if you wrote to him something like “It’s been awhile. I know you are going through so much right now and I wish there was a way that I could help and support you. Do you have anytime to talk soon? I’d love to hear what’s been happening for you.”
Thoughts?
Heidi
Oh goodness! Me correcting how you presented your conversation was NOT meant at all to tell you did it wrong. Do you see your pattern of taking all the responsibility for HIS actions??? This simply is just not the case. It’s a lie you keep telling yourself and that is what is sourcing your anxiety…a BIG lie. Like I previously said…if a relationship cannot withstand our humanness, our messiness, it’s not a relationship that will work. If he runs from you anytime you say you want to talk, then how is that your fault? That’s HIS choice to run!!!! He is showing you who he is…he is not interested in your feelings, your experience, your challenges, your needs enough, to call and check in on what you want to say. Instead, he has run away and disconnected from you. He is being this way because IT”S WHO HE IS, not because of how you said it.
he is not always saying and doing things in a right and great way and usually he is not doing effort to “repair it”. And I don’t require and don’t expect it from him. We’re human. Not everything needs to be done my way. This is a pretty healthy and normal expectation Ecaterina. This is not YOUR way, this is the way for every couple who wishes to grow together. Every couple works TOGETHER to repair things. Every couple works TOGETHER to improve communication. Why would you not expect or require it from him??? It’s the ONLY way for a relationship to work. It will NEVER work if 1 person in the relationship is not willing to put in the effort to “repair” whatever is not working.
I just can’t understand if in this situation we’re now – is it ok for me to contact him again (for another subject, for example), or I should wait for him to contact me. What if you said something like, “It feels like you have pulled away again and become more distant. It doesn’t feel good for me, so I’m just going to take a step back and wait for you to reach out when you are ready.”
Here is the thing Ecaterina. Yes, he has activated some really big insecurities in you because of the baggage you carry from your childhood. AND he is also not really strong relationship material. He is not behaving in a way that would show you he would be a good partner. If he runs from stress or confrontation, if he runs from communicating, if he doesn’t put in the effort to truly resolve things…he is NOT a good choice for a partner. He is NOT a good choice for a man to hold YOUR heart in his hands. He IS NOT CAPABLE of supporting you in the way you need. He wouldn’t be a good partner for anyone with who he is right now. So no matter how much you work on yourself, clear the anxiety and become more emotionally healthy, it will not change who he is.
Heidi
I’m confused. When are you seeing him in person? Have you agreed to go on the trip with him?
You said your communication had broken down. Do you know why? Sometimes it really just comes down to learning a better way to talk to someone.
I’ve been tip toeing for awhile. This is you trying to accommodate him and not be your 100% authentic and honest self. My guess is, it’s because you don’t want to lose him. In a normal and healthy relationship, tip-toeing is not present. BOTH people feel comfortable being themselves.
when do people enter the exclusive space. I wish there were a straightforward answer for this. Every couple is different. Being that you barely know the guy, I would suggest to just keep having fun with him, while being your authentic self and see where things lead you. If you are not comfortable being 100% of yourself around him, then it doesn’t even give him a clear picture of who you are. How would he even know if he wants to commit to you, if he doesn’t even truly know you….and vice versa. You feel he is lying about some things. He is not being authentic either. So you both have some things to figure out with each other. Are you willing to let go of your need to be exclusive for right now and just enjoy the times you get to connect and just keep gathering information?
Heidi
OH this is spectacular!!! I LOVE IT! Now you know what is important to help keep the balance between you guys. Make sure to plan a mini getaway from each other every few months as a way to make sure neither of you hits a breaking point. I love that you are planning a new place to move to in a few years. Make sure to create a SPECIFIC of how to achieve that. Maybe open a specific savings account where money goes for your move. Maybe plan on looking at certain furnishings or paint colors. Just have fun and dream, but make sure you guys keep having small conversations about it and that there is an actual plan you have put in place to make sure it happens. This will keep the dream fueled and very real vs. just something you guys talk about.
Heidi
It’s all okay! You are doing the very best that you know how and that’s enough. The thing is, relationships need to be able survive miscommunications, messiness, imperfectness etc. No matter what you did or how you say things, a relationship will last and endure those moments, IF both people are willing to just work through it. So if he cannot get past any of your humanness, mistakes, things you have said and done…then he is not a good partner for you. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO BE HUMAN!!!! You are allowed to mess up and be loved anyway!! If he can’t offer that to you, it’s not YOUR fault! It just means he doesn’t have what it takes to offer that to you….it’s nobody’s fault. It just is.
For the future…whenever you say to a guy “I want to talk” it freaks a guy out. He instantly will start to feel like he is going to get into trouble and will NOT be motivated to connect. Another way you could have approached it would be saying “Hey love. Are you free to talk this evening or sometime soon? I miss you.” Or “Hey there. I’m free this evening if you want to connect. I’d love to hear how your day went.” Something light, easy and not scary. Imagine if he said ” I want to talk, it’s important.” Wouldn’t you instantly get nervous about the conversation? Does this make sense?
He was saying me in beggining that he wants a stable commited relationship. Then i understood that he just doesnt trust women Wanting something and actually fighting for it are 2 different things. If you think about it, we ALL have these areas where what we want and what we actually decide are 2 different things. How many people want to have a lot of money, yet they have poor spending habits? How about all those people who want to lose, but eat horribly. Or how about those people who want to have a healthy relationship, yet they keep choosing partners that bring a TON of baggage and drama to the relationship. You are the same. You want a guy who fights for you, who is emotionally available and who WANTS to offer you the world. Yet you are choosing to fight for a guy who doesn’t trust women. In these discrepancies we all carry, lives our hurts, programs, wounds, limiting beliefs, negative programs and stories. That’s why deep internal work is soooo important. Without connecting to the baggage we carry, we will sabotage everything we want in some form or fashion. Clearing the baggage helps us make decisions that ALIGN with what we want vs. making decisions that don’t support what we want. Does this make sense?
Since you are willing see a therapist or coach, do you know where to look and how to find someone? What country do you live in?
Heidi
