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Hi Huyen,
I thought I would check in as well and see how you are doing. I’m so so sorry for what you are having to live with. I can’t remember if you ever told me…how long do you have to stay? What’s your exit plan?
I thought I would comment on this as well, as I know we have been working a lot on how to diffuse an argument. “it would be great if you can let me know next time if you don’t need lunch or dinner cooked” under normal circumstances, this is a GREAT way to communicate, but to a narcissist, all he is hearing is how bad and wrong he is. It’s important for you to pick your battles wisely, because every single time you confront about anything at all, even as small as lunch, you are going to get a big reaction…and you can only take so much. So the best kind of response would have been “Okay…I will wrap it up for later if you want it.” It’s truly no big deal (in the grand scheme of things) that he didn’t tell you. It’s not respectful, but it’s not something worth spending your precious energy on. He is a volcano that erupts anytime he wants, so remember that anytime you mention something he is or isn’t doing. It’s more important for you to protect yourself right now. I know that means staying silent a lot. Make sure you have outlets where you let out your anger and hurt. You can come here and vent, you can journal, you can exercise, you can dance your feelings etc. What are you doing to take care of yourself emotionally?
I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you went out! I’m introverted as well, so I totally get the discomfort. How did it go?
Heidi
Thank you for sharing all of this! Okay….let’s work through this bit by bit.
I just want to stop the pain i am living with now. I am willing to do everything just to stop feeling the way i feel. I totally get how you feel. Everyone wants out of pain. However, this is NOT a reason to get back together. You are strong enough to face this pain and ride it out. It’s only temporary. You will not feel like this for the rest of your life. Again, the pain you are feeling is full of all kinds of stories and lies that then creates suffering for you. If you want this to shift, then you have to put the work in. You have got to start to reprogram your thoughts and feelings. FEELINGS ARE NOT FACTS!!! You DO NOT let your feelings dictate what happens nor what is true. Your mind and heart KNOWS the truth and it’s up to you to put that in charge over your feelings. What do you do with your feelings when they come up? You can journal, you can self talk and have a conversation with yourself, you can put on music and just dance the feelings you have, you can paint the feelings, you can watch a movie that is inspiring and encouraging, you can listen to a podcast or watch some videos where a person is helping you connect to the truth of who you really are, you can get lost in a book where the main character is fighting for and through something. There are a TON of things you can do with what you feel. You are not a victim of your emotions. An empowered woman invites ALL feelings and then works WITH them and transforms them into something that serves her. Instead, you want to let those feelings lead you back into a relationship where you were not happy. That is being victim to your feelings.
For now, I think the MOST IMPORTANT thing is for you to start to WORK WITH your feelings. Once you feel okay about them and you stop running from them and you empower yourself….THEN you can decide if you want to be with this guy again or not. If you just try and get him back now, you will just go through the same exact thing. If you wait, deal with your feelings and decide you want to give it another shot, you will at least have grown from the experience, you will be more grounded and centered and much more clear.
Thoughts?
Heidi
I’m wondering if being the sister is getting in the way. I know many people who respect that boundary with their friends. They just don’t cross the line of dating a brother or sister, due to the potential chaos and drama and all the changes that would happen to the original relationship. It’s a pretty big risk to get involved with a friend’s sibling. I’m curious, what are your ages? That really would affect how to approach this. How long have you known him? You are certain that he is single and available?
Heidi
Hi Jennifer,
Man…I get it! To feel that cared about and taken care of…well it just feels amazing. Who in the world would want to walk away from something that feels so good??
Of course you are going to get hurt. He wants something different than you do and that inherently is a barrier to connection. I love that he is honest with you though! He gets props for that.
Is there a middle ground you can find? What if you just date and get to know each other and wait awhile before having sex. It slows things down. It allows you to get to know the REAL him through conversation and it allows time for the friendship to develop. These are crucial things that need to develop anyway. It’s possible that over time he feels inspired to want to connect only with you. The relationship has to deepen through a connection of friendship, not intimacy. I’m not sure if that is something you are willing to do at this point though.
Heidi
First, don’t agree with the belief that you chose who you want in life based on their worst and not their best. I don’t believe that’s a good way to go about things because everyone needs work in one way or the other. No one would ever GET together if they made their choices based on people’s worst qualities. I didn’t explain this very well, did I? Let’s see if I can help this make more sense. When choosing someone according to their worst qualities, it just means that whatever their VERY WORST qualities are, they are loveable and acceptable to have in your life and it’s not harmful to you. If their worst qualities are harmful to you (verbal or physical abuse, stonewalling, passive-aggressive behavior etc.) then you are looking at a relationship that will break. In a couple’s worst moments, there needs to live a respect and an agreement not to cause harm towards each other. It doesn’t mean there aren’t moments of yelling and disconnect…it just means that even in that, they still treat each other with respect. Basically, how a person treats you, themselves and others in their worst…makes or breaks relationship. This isn’t actually my personal theory, although I 100% agree from personal experience. This has been extensively studied as well. Here is an article that talks about what they call the 4 horseman…if any of these exist in a relationship without correction, it’s not going to last. This info has come from over 20 years of detailed study. It’s fascinating! Explore the website as well! There is sooooo much amazing and helpful info.
The Four Horsemen: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling
The best way I can put it, is that I feel like the real me when I’m with him – after years of having to pretend to be something else with my alcoholic ex. Isn’t it such a wonderful feeling??? Especially compared to what you used to deal with. I understand why you would want to fight for this guy so much. It’s not like it’s easy to feel this way with someone. You have grown leaps and bounds since your experience and that has to feel amazing for you! I feel your internal strength and I have to say…it’s beautiful! Well done! It is NOT easy to get out of what you were in AND grow beyond it and find yourself. You now have an internal strength that will only grow and continue to impact this world!
I sure hope he chooses to fight for you, because he sure would be missing out on the best thing that ever happened to him. I would suggest that you spend time creating a vision of connection between you two. For me, I like to say “I choose goodness into connection” and then imagine what that would look like. Even if he chooses to leave this time without connecting, it doesn’t mean he won’t come around at some point. I actually have no doubt he will. Whatever fear he is facing, it’s BIG BIG BIG! It has nothing to do with you and maybe someday he will face those demons. Fighting for this guy whilst not losing yourself, is going to take a lot of patience on your end. It means KNOWING he will run and come back (hopefully less each time) while standing your ground and requiring to be treated in certain ways if he is going to remain in your life.
How does all of this feel for you?
Heidi
p.s. your plans for the weekend sound great!!!
Hi Liza,
Thanks for sharing more! I love the qualities that you mentioned about him. He does sound like a great guy. I am wondering…are these qualities you don’t have within yourself? Or maybe not to the level that he does? I wonder this because you “look up to him” because he has these qualities….which is a statement of making him more or better than you or “higher” than you. It would be different if you said “I respect these qualities about him” but you are saying “I look up to him.” Do you see the difference? I know it may seem small, but these are things to really pay attention to. If you have feelings of him being better than or more than you…those are feelings to deal with, because it isn’t true. A guy DOES NOT want to be on a pedestal. He definitely wants to be respected though, so how you view him is important.
how can I assure him that I am not that girl in social media who terrorizes him/and the girl. I was not confronted directly, but the fact that he mentioned that “I followed the girl 3 times” gives me a clue that I am a suspect. This really bugs me as I find it the whole thing cheap, and I am not cheap. You show him you are not “cheap” by not getting involved at all. This has nothing to do with you and your “snooping” already caused him to take a step back. Show him you realized you made a mistake and will self-correct by just supporting him IF HE WANTS but other than that, you are not involved in the situation at all. Unfriend yourself or do what you need to do to completely disconnect from the scenario and let it go. Supporting him means listening if he wants to talk about it and reminding him that he will figure this out because he is a smart guy. he is wise and he is a good problem solver. Let him feel your vision of him.
Does this make sense?
Thoughts?Heidi
It sounds like there is still a lot to learn about him though. It sounds like you have him up on a bit of a pedastal. Yes? You say you look up to him. What does that mean? You say you see him as a great guy to have deep relationship with, but what makes you think that? At this point, you have a very limited picture of who he really is, so that’s a pretty big statement to make considering you haven’t spend much time with him.
Heidi
Hi Rebecca,
Wow…what a story and what a challenge you are facing! I love how much you guys really are able to connect and care for each other! It sounds like the good stuff is pretty wonderful! I’m so sorry that his coping mechanism of shutting down is ending this relationship. I always tell people, you choose who you want to let into your life based on their WORST and NOT their best. Our worst sides will make or break a relationship – regardless of how amazing everything else is. This has been studied over and over and over again. Just like you are experiencing, no matter how amazing things are, his worst side – that side of him that will run instead of face his problems, his fears and his hurts – is what is ruining and sabotaging the relationship. The thing is, this is his coping mechanism. My guess is, he is completely okay with never getting married. He knows he runs, so it’s much easier to do it unattached. He will be like this for the rest of his life. I know you would do ANYTHING for this guy, but that’s a bit of a red flag. If you are willing to do anything to keep him, that makes me wonder where your limits and boundaries are for yourself. If you are willing to choose connection with a man who isn’t willing to work through his stuff and who needs to run and disconnect every time something gets hard…if you want that over loving yourself and caring enough about yourself and how that affects you…then you are making him more important than yourself – and that also is what will break a relationship. It’s just something you may want to think about and consider.
Now…in regards to getting him back, let’s talk some strategy here. It sounds like it’s a common pattern of his to run away for a while and eventually he returns. So this time it may take longer, but eventually, avoidants do end up connecting again. My guess is, the stress of his mom’s health is also contributing to the intensity of his reaction. Check out this website: https://dianepooleheller.com/ She has one of the most helpful and comprehensive classes on attachment styles and how to work with them, that I have ever seen. This may really benefit you as you continue to connect with him and learn different ways to confront him. He is still going to run, regardless of what you do because at this point, he isn’t doing anything to change how he handles stuff, but you may be able to find ways to bring him back in a lot sooner. It’s quite the dance and always going to be a lot of work.
I love that you did a photo shoot for him!!! That is soooo amazing and such a beautiful gift. I hope that eventually, he will truly be able to appreciate the vulnerability you showed him.
For now, keep giving him space and work on yourself to get back connected to the truth of who you are and the truth that you are going to be okay. Your anxious style of attachment means you need to work really hard to feel grounded and safe within yourself, even when your partner is not connecting. It’s about you knowing you are safe and okay, even if he isn’t connecting. When you can rejoin yourself with that truth, it changes the entire energy of the relationship and can bring you guys back together much sooner than later. Don’t underestimate the power you have to shift the energy of a situation, even if you guys aren’t talking. So let’s talk strategy about how you can help yourself for right now. What can you do in the next 5 days to really love yourself, comfort yourself and feel okay about being disconnected for the moment?
Heidi
Hi Lili!
I LOVE that you feel that you are growing from all of this. Personally, I believe that makes you powerful. You are taking this situation and using it to serve you instead of letting the situation ruin you. Well done!
And yes, this seems to be the max he has reached in the past, just caring about someone, its important for him to mention, to do. Somehow, at the same time, he seems to really hurt the same people. He wants to be a nice guy though weirdly. This is just called a split. I talked about it before and I totally get it, because I was the same way. I had sooooooo many parts of me that wanted opposite things. I wanted to deeply love and connect, yet I would sabotage every connection. I wanted to be understood and seen, yet I wouldn’t share my inner desires. Your guy absolutely has the desire to connect deeply. The older he gets, the stronger that desire will most likely grow in him. However, he has a whole set of fears that he has lived with for so long and that have designed his romantic life for decades. Those fears are what cause the split. Like I said before, they end up taking turns in the drivers seat of his life. We all tend to have splits of some sort. People want to be healthy, yet they eat pizza and drink wine every night. People want to be wealthy, yet they spend money on frivolous things. People want to be in love, yet they don’t learn how to communicate or they cheat. There are a MILLION scenarios of people having 2 sides of themselves – 1 side that is what they deeply want and 1 side that works against that. It’s fascinating really and THE BIGGEST problem that people deal with. It’s so confusing for most people, understandably. That’s where understand the subconscious and learning how to navigate that vast and very powerful part of ourselves is necessary.
It just baffles me he would be so so afraid of deep commitment, because his parents are still married and must have been for at least 60 years.. makes no sense to me! I mean if he was a divorce child or something, I would understand it better.. You’re assuming that his parents have a good marriage. Just because they aren’t divorced, doesn’t mean they love each other well. He can still feel abandoned, have a lack of respect towards women, not feel emotionally safe all because of their parenting style. You are seeing the result of whatever it is that they and others have taught him, so them being married is truly a moot point.
Heidi
Hi Rebecca!
Welcome to the forum! We are really excited to work with you and help you figure out your situation. Would you mind starting your own thread, so we are able to focus just on you? It helps us make sure that each person gets the personal attention they deserve. So if you could copy this post and create your own thread, we will respond there.
Let us know if you need any help with that.
Heidi
Hi Liza,
Geez! I totally get how the insecurities would flare up after seeing the drama with other women. It sounds like maybe your feelings for him were stronger than maybe you realized and possibly stronger than how he felt about you. I’m wondering if he considered you guys more like a friends with benefits kind of situation. Communication is soooooo darn important and maybe you guys just missed the boat on this one a bit.
Regardless, your insecurities came up and that is something to work with. We ALL have insecurities and always will. It’s just part of life. I tell people that being an emotionally healthy person doesn’t mean you don’t get triggered. It does not mean you don’t feel insecure or that you won’t have low self-esteem. Being emotionally healthy means that WHEN you get triggered and your baggage comes up, you know how to deal with it, you have the skills of self-love and you are able to quickly return back to the truth of what a badass you are! I consider myself pretty internally strong and emotionally healthy. I’ve worked very hard on all of the baggage and I have released and healed a ton. AND…I absolutely still have moments of feeling rejected, feeling insecure and feeling messy. However, when those moments show up, I ask for help, I do my self love, I get connected back to the truth and I am back on my feet pretty quickly. It used to take a lot longer though!
I hope after the healing process he sees me again as a woman worth knowing The thing is, it doesn’t matter if he sees you as worth knowing. You ARE worth knowing and exploring life with regardless. The truth you need to get back connected to is that YOU feel you are worth knowing….even with all of your messiness and the insecurities that live within you. You are worth loving, you are worth having adventures with in life, you are worth loving and fighting for. Once YOU really connect to this and FEEL it in yourself, THEN the kind of guys will start to show up and support this. How you feel about yourself acts like an energetic beacon and will attract men and situations that will support how you feel about yourself. Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Fung,
Let’s talk about this statement: I just think men are not very tolerant to age as I am now in my early 30s. I just worry that the older you get, the more difficult for one to get into a relationship. Where does this belief come from? It doesn’t have to be your path or story. If you start to let age determine your relationship and love path, you are letting fear sneak in determine what you do next. The truth is, every single person’s path is their own and there are ALWAYS a million things that are influencing their romantic life. To say that men don’t tolerate age is a judgment and stereotyping. Of course, that is true for MANY men, but then if you look deeper, those kinds of men have common insecurities. There are PLENTY of men who don’t give a darn about age and who are more invested in having a great connection. The kind of men you invite into your life are going to be a reflection of your own beliefs, fears, insecurities, strengths etc. The truth is, whatever you want to believe about men, you will end up attracting towards you. There is a saying I love: “Whether you think you can or can’t, you’re right.” So if you want to believe men struggle with age, then you’re right. If you want to believe men are totally fine with age and it doesn’t matter, you’re right.
What EXACTLY do you want to understand about the mindset of men? Each person is so different, but there are some commonalities between how men think and behave and how women think and behave. However, I am ALWAYS encouraging people to understand the general concepts, but to ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS understand each person as their unique self as well. What are you seeking to understand about men and why???
It’s very likely he has a committed relationship so he doesn’t dare to go any further. What’s your analysis on that? What’s there to really analyze about this? It’s pretty straight forward. Is there something you feel you don’t understand about his choice?
Heidi
Hi Mery,
Welcome to the forum! Hopefully we can help you find some clarity and make some important decisions for yourself and this relationship. I understand how it’s not that simple to listen to other peoples’ advice to just leave because he doesn’t deserve you. The heart is so much more layered and complicated than those super simple answers…even if it is the truth. So let’s talk about everything that is happening and see if you can find some peace.
First, I’m a little confused….I think. You guys are boyfriend and girlfriend and then he has another girlfriend? I know you found those texts, but I was unclear as to whether or not you told him what you found. He denied everything about this other girl, but did you tell him that you saw the proof on his phone?
he is a good man. except this situation he’s the whole package i Always looked for. I have no doubt he is a good man and has some wonderful things to offer you. He also cheats and he also lies about it. If you want a long term, healthy love, this 1 quality is BIG enough that it will ruin anything. I always coach people to CHOOSE who they want in their lives according to the worst parts of the person, not the best. Why? Because it’s how we function in our worst and we treat ourselves and other in our worst, that determines how strong our relationships really are. Can you imagine a friend saying to you…”I love him! He always gets me anything I thing, we laugh all the time, he is such a gentleman, he is everything I’ve ever wanted in a guy and more. The only thing is, he hits me when he gets mad. Or he cheats on me.” All the other good qualities get tainted and ruined by this kind of behavior. At the very core of your insides, you don’t feel emotionally safe with this guy. He is lying and and he is cheating. I wonder how many times he has done this in relationships. I highly doubt it’s the first time he has cheated. The thing is, it doesn’t sound like he is willing to change any of it. He keeps making excuses as to why he needs to stay connected with her for a little bit longer. And you staying in relationship with him and fighting for him, just teaches him that it’s okay what he is doing. Despite his great qualities, he ALSO is lying and cheating and the odds of him continuing this behavior are sooooo high.
So I guess this leads me to wonder….are you okay with that? Do you really expect him to stop cheating and lying? Whatever his reasons are for carrying on this way, he is messed up and NOT interested in having a deep, vulnerable, authentic connection with just 1 woman. Maybe he is more interested in having an open relationship. Is that something you are open to as well?
What is MOST important to decide right now and get VERY clear about, is whether or not you can accept his behavior and if not, what EXACTLY do you want from him? Let’s just start there and we can develop a plan from there.
Heidi
Hey there!
We haven’t heard from you in a bit, so I thought I’d check in and see how you are doing and what your thoughts were about what I said. Have you done any research on narcissism?
Heidi
It sounds like you are stuck because you are letting a bunch of confusing things keep you in this loop of confusion.
How about we just look at what is happening RIGHT NOW. RIGHT NOW…you guys have decided to end things. Is he trying to still connect? Is he reaching out at all? Is he initiating any kind of contact with you?
Again, whatever feelings that do exist between a couple, it needs to translate into a healthy relationship. Feelings all by themselves, are NOT enough to keep a relationship going. The relationship needs to have many things to have it be healthy. So since you are not really willing to close the door and let this go…let’s talk about the relationship again.
Why were you unhappy? Why do you believe it didn’t work? What is the story you are telling yourself every day? Why do you feel you want to keep things going? Why do you want to fight for him?
Heidi
