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Hi Joanne,
I am so sorry for what you are going through. It sounds like a very complicated and confusing situation for you to have such a deep connection with a man who is not available to you anymore. It’s so sad that he is with someone he doesn’t love and is having a child with. They are in for a super long journey together.
I’m just going to be quite blunt here. He is not available for you in the way you want. That is your answer. I know you feel you love him and I know there is a strong bond, but that doesn’t change he is not available for you. He is with someone else and he is expecting a child…a life changing event WITH HER…not you. I know you want him to leave her to be with you, but that is stepping into a HUGE mess with a gazillion feelings that is going to create a messy situation. Why? Because he isn’t clear. He has a girlfriend and expecting a son. It’s natural for 2 people to want to try and stay together. Even if he chose you, he is going to have to be by her side MANY times as she goes through bringing his son into the world. She is going to need his help. They are a team now…it’s new, it’s exciting, it’s stressful, it’s scary, it’s magical….it’s sooooooo many things that will end up making you a 3rd wheel. There will be MANY times he will NEED to choose her over spending time with you. He will be VERY torn and split, not wanting to hurt you or her while trying to support his son. It’s a super messy scenario Joanne. And one where the odds of you getting hurt quite a bit are quite high.
So again…the reality is, he is not available. Plain and simple. He cannot offer you his undivided, full attention the way you want. He cannot offer you his full heart. He cannot offer you all of his time. He is NOT clear and he is torn about what to do, hence him suggesting to “focus on school right now.” He is just delaying what he already knows…he is confused and torn and rightly so.
It’s not fair to give him an ultimatum. It would be one thing if a child was not on the way. He is about to be a father and you want him to choose between the mother and you even before this child has come into the world? That just doesn’t work. It doesn’t matter how strong the love and connection is between you guys, he has a son coming from another woman and that is VERY confusing.
He needs to figure out his life. He may need to stay with her for awhile and partner up with her and do the very instinctive “nesting” thing parents do for their child. It may be good enough to stay together for a while. It may not. Who knows. Either way, he needs to go find out. That means it’s important for you to step out of the picture. You need to love yourself more than you love the connection with him. Loving yourself means choosing you over a guy who is not available for you. Loving yourself means protecting your very sacred heart and your very special love from a situation that will bring a lot of hurt into your life. Loving yourself means you say no to a man who is not available and yes to another experience where the man is ready to offer you the world with NOTHING standing in the way.I know this is not what you want to hear. I know it hurts deeply to let go of this beautiful connection you both have together. It’s incredibly difficult AND it’s only temporary. You can heal and say goodbye to this version of love. Love is like a tree. There are many branches that are alive and branches that die off, but there is always the potential for new life.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Teresa,
I understand what many of the advice books say. I’ve been a dating coach for over 20 years.
Let me break it down for you so you understand why this “game” actually works and why it is misinterpreted and a very toxic game. There are MANY layers to this, so let’s keep talking about this. If you are not very good at this relationship stuff, it’s time to change that. You need to become more educated and really start to be more purposeful in your approach.
1. The guys like the “chase” only in the sense that most guys LOVE a confident woman. A confident woman has requirements. A confident has standards as to how she is treated and if the guy falls short of that, she will not engage. This is a healthy type of confidence. A man loves to feel like his woman has her life together, has her own opinions, has the ability to take care of herself and that she doesn’t actually NEED him…she wants him, but she doesn’t NEED him. A confident woman also allows a man to come into her life and is in a receiving state with him, meaning she allows herself to need to him because it’s a healthy dynamic, BUT when her man is not available for some reason, or cannot help…she also knows how to take care of herself and get things done. She is resourceful and she KNOWS her power. She doesn’t give away her value…meaning she doesn’t determine her value in this world according to that man standing in front of her. She knows her value because she has self love.
This game, the way a lot of books describe it, about getting a guy to “chase” you is a very toxic way to create connection, because it isn’t authentic. Ignoring a guy when that is not what you want to do, just to get his attention, is a game created from a lot of low self-esteem. The woman wants to be wanted and will play games to get a guy to chase her when in reality, she is not doing a loving thing for herself. A woman with confidence doesn’t play this “I’m going to ignore you and pretend I don’t care about you” game because if a guy isn’t interested, she honors and trusts that and ONLY is interested in a guy who wants to court her and chase her because he is INSPIRED by her, not because she is ignoring him. Do you see the difference?
And just because you like a guy, it doesn’t mean that is a good match for you. It’s JUST chemistry. Although the chemistry feeling is a seriously powerful drug, the problem is, people get wrapped ups in that feeling and don’t actually look at the FULL picture of a person. Chemistry is NOT a reason to enter into a connection with someone and invite them into your life. You need to look at how that guy behaves in his life.
Studies have shown that it’s the WORST in someone that breaks connection. Meaning…it’s the shadow side, the ineffective side, the darker side of someone that determines the success of a relationship. So when I coach a woman through dating, I guiding them to look for the worst in a man. What is he like when he is stressed? Angry? Upset? How does he treat you? How does he treat others? As you have already experienced, he went from being super connective and helpful to you through your injury and then he quickly put his walls up and disconnected. This is a HUGE red flag. He is full of fear. You got a very small window in how he will respond during stress. He will quickly pull away and become unavailable for you instead of talking with you and working through things together. This type of coping mechanism he has means he is NOT a good person to hand your heart over to. He is not an honest communicator and when his fear is big enough, he will leave you high and dry. Is this something you are going to ignore?
Do you really want to a guy to chase you who already has run from you? Don’t you feel like you want a guy who has NOTHING stopping him from wanting to know you? Don’t you want a guy who chases you because he is inspired by you and he WANTS to know you without you having to play games?I’ll stop there. There is much more to all of this. Let me know your thoughts.
Heidi
Hi Teresa,
Welcome! Thank you for sharing your story. I’m glad you are here, as there are some things to pay attention to.
First, some of your behavior is passive-aggressive and that is DEFINITELY something common amongst women and a tactic that many men get turned off by. The “I’m ignoring you and pretending you don’t matter” game is not something guys typically respond to either. I understand you wanting to play hard to get, but what is bigger than that…is he knows it’s a game you are playing.
I love how considerate and kind he was with you helping you with your injury, but this relationship has definitely not gotten off to a great start. You BOTH are struggling here.
Here is the thing Teresa…you don’t need to play games. You can just be who you are and if he likes that, then great! If not, he is not a good match for you, regardless of how you feel about him. I don’t know what is going on with him that he got scared so easily, but what he showed you, was that he is easily scared and he pulled away. This is a HUGE RED FLAG!!! He doesn’t seem to know what he wants and that, in and of itself, means he is NOT AVAILABLE for you in the way you want. You keep trying to connect with him by texting him once a week and then you ignore him at the pub. You are sending mixed messages as well.
The best thing you can do right now, is get very clear in who you are. He needs to feel like you are NOT playing games. He needs to feel like you won’t say one thing and then do another. He needs to feel like you are authentic.
Even at that Teresa, if this guy is going hot and then cold so quickly and saying he doesn’t want a relationship and wants to focus on work…LISTEN TO HIM!!! Whatever is happening for him, he is not ready for something serious, yet you keep chasing him. I know he treated you really well and that you believe you guys would be great together AND he doesn’t feel the same way.
Let him go. Don’t you want a guy who has NOTHING stopping him from wanting to know you? Don’t you want a guy who is ALL in and on the same exact page with you? Relationships are difficult, so you want to add an extra layer of difficulty by trying to get the attention of a guy who is clearly confused and easily scared? Connecting and stepping into a connection with a guy needs to be easy. Being on the same page means that the other challenges that show up with getting to know each other go much more smooth. With this guy being soooooo easily spooked already, can you imagine what he would be like at the first sign of confrontation or difficulty in the relationship?? Yikes! He is not the kind of guy who would stick around. Already with this first challenge, you are seeing that he put his walls up, he isn’t initiating connection with you, it put you into the behavior of being manipulative and game playing…and you guys barely know each other!!!
I want to encourage you to let this guy go and open up yourself to other opportunities where the guy IS available and curious about you and who will fight for you. THAT is what is healthy….not chasing after an unavailable guy.
I know this is probably not what you wanted to hear. I would rather encourage you to set some seriously strong standards as to how you are treated. The more you value yourself and how you are treated, the easier it will be to attract a guy who aligns with your standards EASILY!! Chasing after a guy who doesn’t value you, is YOU teaching him that you don’t value yourself. He can ignore you, he can play games with you and you are teaching him that you will play those games back. We are the ones who teach each person how to treat us by accepting or rejecting their behaviors. People will be who they will be, but we get to say yes or no to that. How about spending your time focusing on yourself instead of trying to change his mind? The funny thing is, many times a guy will all of a sudden be attracted to that kind of self confidence over the game playing they can spot a mile away. Ignoring someone because you are playing hard to get is very transparent and wreaks of insecurity. Ignoring someone because you value yourself is an attractive energy because it’s confidence.
Stop contacting him. Be willing to lose him, because he is not interested in being on the same page as you. From there, let the chips fall where they may. He may find that attractive or he may move on…who knows. Either way, you will be respecting and valuing yourself and if he responds to that at some point, then you guys will be off to a much better start. If he doesn’t, then you know he just doesn’t match what you need.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Okay. I understand this. Moving on and healing a broken heart looks different for each person and how they go about it.
What you need to be careful of and pay attention to, is wanting him back. When you are spending your time, thoughts, and energy on imagining coming back together and hoping for a conversation that will bring you back together – that’s keeping you stuck in pain and suffering and preventing you from healing. It’s keeping you in fantasy land and not connected to the pain he caused and the dysfunction that existed, and will always exist, within the connection. You want to keep working towards keeping grounded in reality. It’s absolutely okay to miss him AND not want him back. I know you are not at this place quite yet, but keep working towards it! You can get there!
Heidi
It sounds like you are very clear about what you want to do. I’m glad that book is helping you and that you are enjoying reading it! I hope it can help him too.
You both have a lot to figure out and it sounds like you are going to keep fighting for him and that’s clear for you. Keep learning and growing…that’s the most any of us can do.
Heidi
Thank you for sharing.
It’s so hard when our furry companions get sick. I’m sure he is having a hard time with that.
I’m proud of you that you went and you made it through!!! Yes, a lot of tears need to keep coming Cindi. You have a lifetime of wounds that have never been dealt with. You have a lifetime of pain that got activated through this loss. These tears are NOT just about him. It’s about EVERYTHING. It’s about every time you felt rejected, abandoned, criticized, let down, and not fought for.
Your tears are honoring all the years you didn’t cry and all the years you buried your hurt. Give it time.I realized I’m not ready to let him go, that I’m tired of pretending I don’t miss him, and that I’m going to get up off that ledge for now. I’m not sure what this means. Why are you pretending you don’t miss him? What does it mean that you don’t want to let him go. You want to keep feeding the fantasy? You want to try and keep in touch with him and start a relationship with him again? Do you think it would go differently? In reality Cindi, he isn’t interested. No matter the fantasy you want to feed and keep alive, it won’t change that he is not willing to go there with you. Are you hoping that over time, he will open back up to you again? How long are you going to wait for that to happen before you decide that you are going to let go?
Do you see how this is an addiction Cindi? It’s NOT love. This is addiction. You don’t know how to be okay without him. So you are grasping at anything you can to help relieve the pain. That’s why deciding you don’t want to let him go brought you some relieve. You are giving into the drug again and allowing the illusion of “love” to take over so you can decrease your discomfort. I understand. It’s what all of us do. I’ve done it many times. I’m not going to tell you not to do that. This is your journey and if you have to go another round of rejection with this guy in order to really know that he is toxic for you, then that’s what you gotta do. All I can do is keep grounding you in the truth of the situation. The TRUTH is…he is not available for you nor able to offer you the kind of love you so deeply crave. He is limited. He is no different than your narcissistic husband….emotionally unavailable…yes it has a different flavor to it, but in the end, the core of your ex husband and the core of this guy is exactly the same….emotionally unavailable. You are making the same exact choice again. Do you really want to go another 10 years in a relationship that is going to put you in survival mode? Another relationship where your needs don’t matter? Another relationship where you all you do is server HIS needs and abandon your own? Again…if you need to go another round with this pattern of yours, you absolutely get to do that! You are not in enough pain to say goodbye to this pattern. You would rather have connection with a man than to connect and love yourself and honor what is best for you. I understand. I have done that MANY MANY times…KNOWING exactly what I was doing…addictions are much stronger than what we know is best for us. I kept working my issues though. I kept reading, learning, going to workshops, doing VERY DEEP therapy that got at the core root of my patterns and fears…and I finally got to a place where I make COMPLETELY different decisions for myself. I love myself MORE THAN any connection I might feel with a man.
Keep fighting for yourself Cindi. You are a role model for your kids too. They are watching you and learning from you. Keep fighting for more in your life.
Heidi
Celia,
If you don’t like drugs and don’t want to be around a druggie, then why are you fighting for this guy? You cannot save him. It’s HIS job to save himself.
I don’t think it’s fair for him to talk to me about his problems if he doesn’t want me helping simple as that he should keep those specific things to himself bc he knows I like to help and or unless he wanted me to fail and mess up again that wasn’t fair. I would have appreciated if he also didn’t info dump me with whatever he did and that when his grandma died he did coke You list all of these things he “shouldn’t” be doing, but what you are not realizing is THIS IS WHO HE IS. You cannot change who he is. He has every right to be EXACTLY who he wants to be. YOUR choice is to either accept him for who he is or don’t. It seems like you are expecting HIM to know what works for you and what doesn’t and that you want HIM to behave in a certain way so YOU can feel comfortable and good. This is just not how it works in relationship. If your guy is doing drugs to cope, that is a CLEAR sign that he has ZERO ability to deal with any of your stressors…he can’t even deal with his own. So I’m not sure what you are actually wanting with this guy. He is druggie, he has no ability to handle stress in a healthy way, and regardless of the feelings you have, it’s clear that this is a very challenging relationship for you. Why do you keep fighting for him?
Helping people doesn’t mean you have to offer advice or even do anything. Many times, helping someone means JUST LISTENING and doing nothing more than that. You validate, you listen, you let them vent and THAT’S IT! That, all by itself, is actually quite powerful.
And I don’t believe that’s who he is that’s satan controlling his emotions no one is like this satan goes into the minds and f ppl up. It doesn’t matter what you believe Celia. You can believe it’s Satan or you can believe it’s something else. What matters is that HE IS WHO HE IS. If it is Satan controlling his emotions, then that’s just what is. It’s between him and Satan and he will keep treating you this way and keep treating himself this way as long as Satan has control of him. So, whatever your belief is, it doesn’t change that he is messy, a druggie, he needs help and you are not the person to help him. He needs professional help. You want a romantic relationship with him and that just is not going to happen. He doesn’t know how to love someone Celia. He doesn’t even know how to take care of himself, let alone take care of a romantic partner and care about their feelings. He uses drugs to escape from his feelings.
The reality is Celia, he cannot offer you what you want. It’s time to let him go.
Heidi
Hi Celia,
It sounds like he really needs to figure out his life and you need to figure out your life. You say you need to work on yourself, but all your focus is on him, trying to fix him, help him, worry about him him him him….Let him figure his life out on his own. He is a grown man. It’s NOT healthy for you to try and help him. It’s like you are trying to be his savior. I know you don’t want him doing drugs again. I know you don’t want him going back to jail. I know he probably doesn’t have anyone to talk to…those are all HIS choices. He NEEDS to feel the consequences of his choices if he is ever going to get better. You cannot help him with what he needs help with. Besides, it’s very demeaning for him to have a woman come in and try to rescue him. It’s like you are acting like his mother. NO MAN likes how that feels. Let him go. Either accept him for who he is, which means he may do drugs again, he may go back to jail, he may spiral his life into more darkness – because those are the kinds of choices he makes. THIS IS WHO HE IS. Either accept it and stop trying to change him and rescue him (which is YOUR addiction) or face your own stuff and realize that he not available for you in the way you want and let him go.
This is the greatest gift you could give him and yourself. Spending all your time worrying about him, trying to fix him, and trying to help him means you are not helping yourself and you are crossing his boundaries.
So what do you want to do? Accept him or let him go?
Heidi
Celia, it’s NOT okay to be called names. That is NOT love. That is abusive. That is very harmful to you. It sounds like this is the kind of person he is when he gets upset. It doesn’t matter how wonderful things are when everything is good, it matters MORE how you both treat each other when things are challenging. And from what you are telling me, neither of you are respectful and honoring towards each other when there is upset. THIS IS NOT OKAY!!!
I’m curious…why are you fighting to stay connected to a guy who calls you names? Do you think that somehow he will change or that it’s okay or that it’s normal?
Heidi
Hi Michi,
I am soooo so sorry for everything you are going through. I know how terrifying it can be to have your entire world fall apart right before your eyes and not have any way to stop it.
I know you want to fight for this. You have invested many years of your heart, your body, and your mind into this marriage and now he is asking you to let go of all of that. It’s heartbreaking.
The thing is Michi…it sounds like an ending is what is inevitable at this point. No matter how much you want to fight for this marriage, he does not. He is not willing to do whatever it takes to find the spark again. It sounds like, for right now, he is interested in being alone and living the single life. He gets to chose the design of his life and it’s important that you respect that his choices are what is right for HIM. I know they go against what is right for you and that’s the hard part about any relationship. Regardless, it doesn’t change that he for now, he wants to move on and he is clearly communicating that.
You have a beautiful fighting spirit Michi and I’m sure it has helped you many times in your life. Sometimes though, it’s okay to put down your “sword” and surrender to what is happening. I know how hard this is, as all kinds of fears and difficult/heavy emotions come up from having to face the loss. However, what kind of marriage are you fighting for anyways? It would be YOU doing all the work to try and save your relationship while he just goes on with his life. That’s NOT a relationship anymore. He NEEDS to go feel his life separate from you now. Who knows what has triggered him into the phase of his life, but nonetheless, it’s happening.
It’s awful AND it allows you an opportunity for healing and becoming even stronger than you are now. It allows you other experiences of love that could be 100x greater than what he has ever offered you. It allows you to get to know yourself separate than him. There are many gifts waiting for you once you step into acceptance of his choice and that an ending of your marriage is here. Instead of fighting it, embrace it, accept it, learn from it, grow from it, and strengthen your resilience.
Heidi
It’s not about consequence. It’s more having the opportunity to see your fears and move forward anyways. Yes, you all may run in the same circles AND you will soon learn to say “so what!” Life goes on. People move on. Healing is available to everyone, whether they invite it in or not. Regardless, you are going to face your fears and step outside of your comfort zone and discover that you will be okay. You are choosing to keep moving WITH your fears instead of running from them…which is what he did. This is amazing and shows you how incredibly strong you are. It takes and INCREDIBLE amount of courage to feel terrified and do it anyways. Give yourself some serious praise for your choice!!!
I’m sure there is also a part of you hoping to see him. Even if you don’t, you will run into people who know both of you and in some way, that’s a closer connection to him than you have had in a while. Remember how you felt about meeting with his sister in law? Just remember that you are strong enough to handle whatever shows up. Stay empowered. If you run into him and have a conversation DO NOT ask him “why this or why that…” kind of stuff. That’s giving HIM your power. Remember the “why” doesn’t matter. If he volunteers it, then that’s his choice, but DO NOT ask. Just smile, be nice and move about your way and take care of yourself.
Heidi
Of course you are tired Cindi. You are unlocking some REALLY big truths about yourself and finally opening your eyes to some of your own limiting patterns. There is nothing easy about that. It’s a lot of work AND it’s all worth it once you get to the other side. There is nothing about your patterns that is horrible Cindi. You are quite normal. It’s all so hard for you because of the judgment and criticism you have about yourself. If you take that away and instead look at your patterns as just something for you to look at and work with, no big deal….it changes your relationship with those patterns you are seeing within yourself. It takes time though. I’ve been doing this kind of internal work for 30 years now and I remember reaching a point where I just said “Oh! I see you. I see you’re enabling. I see your manipulation. I see your judgment. I acknowledge you. Let’s take a journey.” I got to a point where I realized that if it wasn’t one thing, it was another. I would clear something BIG and then another thing would pop up. Their reality is, it’s a FOREVER journey. It never stops. What changes is how we end up viewing what comes up. Even to this day, I still deal with major insecurities and sabotaging patterns. And you know what? I don’t care anymore. It’s just part of my humanness and I deal with them when they appear and love myself through it and move on KNOWING they will visit me again and again and again. This is the point you want to get to….being able to just look at your shadow side, your limitations, your fears and insecurities and know they will be with you forever….so embrace them as part of you…as your teachers. When you are able to love ALL of who you are, then you will be able to give and receive a much higher frequency of love – because any man you fall in love with, no matter how incredible he is, has a shadow side too.
It’s a very common fear running into a recent ex. We all have faced it many times and you know what? No matter what happens, it’s okay. You could run into him and it could be the most awkward conversation you have ever had in your life or it could be short and sweet or it could be triggering or you may not run into him at all. You never know what is going to happen. What is important is that you stay connected to your inner strength and wisdom. You stay connected to yourself which keeps you empowered. You are going to the festival for YOU because you are wanting to expand your world with like-minded people and maybe make some new friends. If he happens to cross your path, you will be okay. You have already gone through the worst of it and you are learning that although this is a hard season for you, you are still here, you are still working out, you are meeting new people, you are figuring out your life without him. That is how resilient you are.
Heidi
Hi Celia,
Although your heart was in the right place of wanting to help Joe, contacting HIS phone company was not your place. You helped him when he didn’t ask for it. You crossed the line into his personal world and that does 2 things. #1 it sends a message to him that you don’t think he is capable of fixing his phone issues on his own and #2 you are forcing yourself on him. That would cause him to want to put up very strong boundaries. I know it was very innocent on your side, but a good rule of thumb to always follow is DO NOT help someone when they haven’t asked for your help…especially a guy. He can handle his life all on his own. He is an adult and knows how to problem solve, so let him do that.
He clearly showed you that he was upset about your choice and from what you have written here, I’m not seeing you acknowledge that he was upset and I’m not seeing you apologize for crossing a boundary. It looks like you just ignore how he felt and that you are confused by his reaction. And then you just keep trying to be nice and send sweet messages even though he isn’t responding.
How about you apologize and let him know that although your intention was to help, it was not your place and that he has every right to be upset about it. I’m so sorry and I will be better at respecting your boundaries. I hope you are well.
Short, sweet, and simple.
Heidi
