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Wow! he has been through a lot. It does make sense that he is not as ready as YOU need him to be. It sounds like you were going to enter into the family unit and that’s a BIG BIG deal after having a wife that held that spot for decades. He just isn’t ready for that. My guess is, if things went slower and those events were not on the horizon, he might have stayed more open.
And instead of fighting with me or changing his behavior, he sabotaged the relationship by claiming it’s missing “chemistry.” This is VERY important to understand….not feeling chemistry IS real for him. People have NO conscious awareness of their sabotaging patterns. All they know is they feel something that makes them pull away or sabotage and they don’t have any connection to the fact that it’s fear sourcing their feelings. It’s all coming from the subconscious and 99% of people are NOT aware enough to be able to identify what they are actually doing. And even if they did identify it, knowing what to do about it is a completely different level and requires A LOT of work…the kind of work that most people are not willing to do. Do not take this personally. He is doing the best he knows how with what he knows and understands about himself. He needs some time and space and if you guys get back together, are you willing to take things SUPER slow?
Heidi
Thank you for sharing more details Ann. It’s helpful!
First, I want to say, that it’s NOT your problem or fault that a man NOT feeling needed by you, becomes a challenge in a relationship. That is THEIR issue to deal with, which you of course are triggering. In a healthy, emotionally intelligent person, they own their own feelings and DO NOT put it onto the other person to fix for them. Of course you contribute to the pattern, but you are NOT the reason for their reaction.
I didn’t push him for more support at that time, because he was still coping with his son’s sudden death a couple of months before my surgery. And I knew it had been hard for him emotionally to take me to the hospital and wait around until I was out of the recovery room. I’m so sorry you had to go through that alone. That’s AWFUL! I had a year full of many surgeries not too long ago and having my mom there was critical for me. It’s a scary thing, no matter how small the surgery is. There are ALWAYS risks and you needed him to be there for you. He ran away because it was too much for him to deal with…and although you understood, it doesn’t change that you had to go through that without your partner by your side.
I like that you are noticing it’s a pattern. There are a few ways to look at this, which I’m guessing has truth in both versions. The pattern itself is coming from you and your lifelong way of surviving and your deep core beliefs about love and how to function within that love. The pattern is more about the kind of man you are choosing to engage with that has a HIGH need to be “needed” in certain ways.
And may ask him if we get back together later this spring or summer if it would make him more comfortable if he paid for most of our outings. This is you trying to “rescue” him from his feelings. That approach actually causes a lot of damage to a relationship. It also will make him feel less like a man. You also are assuming quite a bit that this is the main cause of his lack of chemistry with you.
Here is something to understand about the psyche – for BOTH men and women. We all have what’s called an “upper limit.” The most basic way to explain this, is we ALL have a limit as to how happy we allows ourselves to be. That limit is directly connected to our low self-esteem and the pain we carry. The more pain, the more low self-esteem, the lower the limit. You can tell when someone reaches their upper limit, because they will start to sabotage the connection. They might lose feelings, they might start fighting with you more, they might start to pull away, they might start new habits that are damaging…everyone sabotages differently. 99% of the time, people have NO CLUE what that they are doing it. All they know is how they feel and it cannot be explained. What’s REALLY happening, is they reached the highest level of happiness that their system allows and so fear, anxiety, confusion, numbness – all these feelings come up that don’t make sense and don’t have any REAL reasons…although they will rationalize their feelings somehow.
I’m wondering if this is what’s happening with your guy. One thing that is completely understandable and normal, is for a widower to reach that limit and go no further, because their beloved who passed, is still occupying their heart – and feelings of betrayal, guilt, shame etc. are still running in the system of the surviving spouse…and those feelings can really get triggered when they start to feel happy with another partner.
Do you feel any of this might be relevant?
Heidi
Oh good! Yes, your tears have been years coming! I know he is the target for your tears, but you are crying for ALL those times you felt abandoned, betrayed, fooled, hurt, and like you didn’t matter. You have had years and years of feeling like that. Your tears are telling you how much you have held inside all this time. Keep letting them come out! It’s all okay!
Heidi
Hi Louise!
Would you mind starting another thread? It gets confusing for us coaches to be coaching 2 different people on the same thread. We want to give you 100% of our attention and don’t want you to fall through the cracks, so having your own thread is a way to ensure that happens. All you need to do is copy this message you just posted and paste it to a thread that is all your own. Let us know if you have any questions about how to do that.
Heidi
I am glad you are back! Let’s definitely keep talking about this, because even as you begin to get more educated about yourself and him, it will help you move through the situation in an easier way. Many times, just a shift in perspective can ease the amount of pain and difficulty in big ways. The most important thing for you that you DO have power over, is your perspective. How you view all of this will either increase or decrease your pain.
What I first want to invite you to do, is view this relationship EXACTLY like the schooling and training you went through to become the leader you are today. As a leader, you KNOW that challenges are going to show up. Being the problem solver you are, you KNOW how to focus on the solutions and that every challenge represents an opportunity to learn about what is not working and what is working, right? Relationships and love are EXACTLY the same thing. Challenges are a teacher. Challenges show us what is NOT working anymore and that it’s time for something to shift to get to the next level. Challenges shine a light on what is ready to be released and changed. Yes, pain comes with challenges AND that pain is messenger as well. That pain is letting us know the stories and beliefs that are keeping us tied up, limited, and in fear. It identifies where we are stuck and staying small. You are a powerhouse Seow. It’s time to take that drive for excellence and skillset of how you problem solve, and apply it to your own life. It means saying “This version of love and relationship is no longer serving me or anyone else. It’s time to learn, understand, heal, and grow from this situation and I am willing to do whatever it takes to FEEL happy again, because that is the kind of life I want to live.”
I understand he was manipulated and I understand his ex is dark and a horrible person. Remember….view HIS life the same way…these challenges that have shown up for him are his teacher. He needs to WAKE UP to his choices. He CHOSE to get wrapped up with her, even though he didn’t want to. He CHOSE to align with the belief that it was the “right” thing to do. He played the “martyr” and is dealing with the consequences of that choice. Anytime we sacrifice our needs, our well-being, our mental health for someone else – we ALWAYS pay the price for that. If YOU view him as a victim, then all you are doing is supporting his story that he is a victim instead of owning how he CHOSE to betray himself. YOU view him as weak. YOU view him as incapable. How about instead, you view him as 100% capable of turning all of this around. How about instead, you view his situation as him going through school and learning how to do things differently, instead do viewing it all as awful. Stop pointing the finger at his ex. You cannot change her. Start holding HIM accountable and stop rescuing him. That is why you are sooooo darn tire and you are breaking. You are doing what he did. You are being the martyr for this relationship. Take care of yourself first and foremost and that is NOT what you have been doing. You are tapped out, exhausted, resentful, angry, and hurting. You are all of those things because of YOUR choices of how you involved yourself with this whole situation. So now, YOU are in school ALSO learning that what you have been doing, DOESN”T work and now it’s time for you to do it differently….or you will completely lose yourself. It’s just a school Seow. These are all lessons here to SERVE you and help you become even more of a powerhouse in a HEALTHY way, because how you have been navigating all of this, is way out of balance and it’s finally catching up to you.
So….take a breath. Open up your mind and heart to NEW ways of going about all of this. Allow these challenges to shine a light on the areas of YOU that are ineffective and limiting and contributing to your pain. STOP FIGHTING what is happening and begin to go with the flow. Just like Jui Jitsu…use the energy of the force coming at you to ADD TO what you want to create. Go WITH it instead of fighting against it. Allow yourself to be taught, molded, shifted, and changed. When you surrender like that, the suffering can disappear in a second. So much of our pain in life is tied up in our perspectives, views, and limiting beliefs. Let them all go and open yourself to new information coming in for you! I know it’s easier said than done. I’m planting seeds here and hoping something sticks for you, even a little bit.
I really do not know how to bring out the feminine side of me… sounds too difficult. At the moment, I just wish I can stop hurting and move on. So what that it’s difficult. Is that what you say in your job? Is that the mindset you carry when a challenge shows up in work? I doubt it. You FIND a way, because it’s the feminine side of you that is going to save you and bring you back into balance. So you DO THE WORK, regardless of how difficult it feels. If you don’t, then you will just continue on the path you are on…in pain, exhausted, and miserable. It’s your choice.
Accessing the feminine can easily begin by having some compassion and care for YOURSELF. The feminine is nurturing, gentle, connective, and validating. Maybe start by journaling 3 pages each day. Write out WHATEVER you are feeling and thinking. It’s called free-form journaling. No purpose, no agenda, no guidelines, no filtering….just write…a minimum of 3 pages. Sometimes, I will even write “I have no idea what to say and this so stupid that I’m wasting my time writing a bunch of nonsense that doesn’t even make sense….” If that is what is in your mind, then you write it! But commit to yourself….3 pages each day. That’s the feminine….that’s taking care of YOU. That’s nurturing YOU. That’s giving your voice a place to be heard. That’s caring about how you feel. You have so completely lost yourself, because you have poured all that you are into rescuing your guy and your job – all at the expense of yourself. Just like your guy, you are playing the martyr. It’s time to start to exist for yourself.
Thoughts?
I’ll send you an email today.
Heidi
Hi Ann!
Welcome! Thank you for being here and sharing your story with us. It’s confusing isn’t it?? It’s just as confusing at 20 as it is at 70….except there is A LOT more baggage to deal with at 70.
Let’s see if we can unpack this a bit.
Did you ask him what “chemistry” he was referring to? I’m not sure I really understand that. It sounds like the bedroom is great, the friendship is great, and you are well-matched. When you are NOT in the bedroom, are you guys flirty with each other? Do you talk every day? Do you hold hands? Do you FEEL the chemistry between you guys OUTSIDE of the bedroom?
As far as you being “independent” there are different ways to view this. It’s a VERY layered and confusing topic for most people and I have found most people do not understand what that actually means…especially what it means for a woman to be independent, considering the social program has been that women NEED men for survival. Being independent is a BEAUTIFUL thing!!! DO NOT ever lose that! However, it’s also important for a man to feel “needed.” By that, I mean he needs to feel like he has a role in your life…it’s part of their nature and instinct, so it’s about finding ways to make him feel “needed” but NOT from a place of you actually “needing” him. Let me explain a bit…if a guy asks me if I want help to carry in the groceries, or carry my bag, or help me with something, even though I don’t actually NEED their help, I absolutely take it. I too am very independent and can do 100% of my life on my own, however…part of the beauty of the feminine energy, is INSPIRING the masculine to engage with us by “helping” us…not because we can’t help ourselves, but because they can. Feminine energy is the “receiver.” Allowing a man to offer his help in various ways, whether it’s a shoulder to cry on, an expensive dinner, a foot rub, carrying something for us….ALWAYS take it because you are honoring the masculine and feminine and how they can work together and support each other. So it’s NOT about you having your own home and job etc….it’s about inviting the masculine’s support into your life because it’s just a beautiful thing to engage with. AND…always make sure to acknowledge it, appreciate it, and verbalize how it helps you…because it does! So I always say things like “Wow…I soooo appreciate your help with that. It made my life so much easier and gave me more time. Thank you thank you thank you!” Does this make sense about the what is happening on a deeper level?
Heidi
I know you do. There were sooooo many wonderful things he brought into your life. You felt like you have never felt before.
You liked how you got to feel when things were good with him. There is a lot to miss about him. Even though he didn’t turn out to be the best guy, it doesn’t change that he also had wonderful experiences to offer you.One thing really helped me through the hardest breakup, was pretending my phone was him. I would turn on the record button and I would close my eyes and pretend I was talking to him. Sometimes, I was just full of tears and missing him so much. Sometimes, I was so angry for his choices. Sometimes, I just wanted to tell him something I knew he would excited about for me. It’s like having a voice diary. No filtering and 100% full expression and emotion…and it was all okay! I found that the more I did it, the less power my feelings had over me, because I used my voice to say exactly what I wanted to say…TO HIM! It was probably the most powerful tool to help me move my emotions. It helped a ton! I would talk to him in my car, I would talk to him at night when I’m in bed. I would talk to him when I got home from work. Whenever feelings would come up, whether anger, fear, missing him…all the above…I said it to him.
It also helped me to watch movies where the woman gets her heart broken, but she also heals and moves on. One of my favorites is “Under the Tuscan Sun.”
Maybe give that a shot and see if it helps!
Sending you a BIG hug Cindi! I’m still here with you. You are not alone through this and I am your biggest cheerleader!
Heidi
Hi Jacqueline,
I love that you are coming here to get some other opinions about your situation. Very smart!!! I wish everyone was like that. Most people just follow their feelings and that leads them into a TON of trouble. When it comes to love, it’s ALWAYS a good thing to get outside, objective opinions, because it’s your VERY sacred, special heart that is involved here. It’s sooooo so important to be discerning and protective of your heart and NOT just hand it over to anyone. Someone must EARN the right to engage with your heart. Trust and safety needs to be established and that takes TIME!!!
First, I’m wondering how much online dating you have done. Are you new at this or have you had a lot of experience with it?
The age difference can be quite a challenge. Or…for some couples, it just doesn’t even phase them. There is no way to know until you meet in person and start to move through life together.
Here is where I caution you….you are already calling him your possible soulmate and you haven’t even met the guy yet. SLOW DOWN!!! Those are some pretty big words with ZERO evidence that it could be true. All you have are words that have been exchanged and NO action from real life experience. You obviously feel a strong connection with him, but that connection is pure chemistry until actual experience enters the relationship to support the chemistry.
I like to teach people to use this analogy when dating: Imagine you are the Founder and CEO of a VERY VERY IMPORTANT company called “Your Heart.” Other people who are engaging with your heart are your employees. You have employees at the very top who know how to care for it, support it, and keep it well nourished. Then you have lower level employees who don’t really get to interact intimately with your heart, but they do support your company in some form or fashion. When you are looking to fall in love, you are looking to hire a high level employee who will be intimately involved with the day to day workings of your heart. So….dating is the interview process for that job. Would you say that it’s a smart thing as the CEO to hire someone you have never met before? Of course you have had some great conversations, so that’s just the start. What you DO NOT know is how this person handles your heart under stress. You DO NOT know what HIS limitations are. You DO NOT know if he is actually reliable, stable, has integrity, and matches the needs of the job description. All you know is there is chemistry. Hiring the right employee for this job means there are SEVERAL layers of interviews that need to take place and THEN…there is a trial period if you do decide to bring in closer. GO SLOW!!!! DO NOT let the chemistry alone cause you to open your heart and hire this man BEFORE you know who he really is.
The reality is, you DO NOT truly know that someone is safe to handle your heart until you have seen them in their worst. It’s the worst in people that break connections, not the best. You have no clue about the shadow side of him. He could be abusive, he could be critical or judgmental, he could be narcissistic, he could play the victim and blame you for his problems, he could completely ghost you….the possibilities are endless. DO NOT open the job position to someone you have barely interviewed.
Why haven’t you guys met in person yet? What is getting in the way of that?
Heidi
Hi Celia, I responded to your other thread, so let’s keep the conversation going over there! 🙂
Heidi
Hi Celia,
Help me understand where you guys are at right now. If I understand correctly, you are NOT talking to each other at all.
I’m wondering why you are having a change of heart. It sounds like you felt that it was A LOT of work to be with this guy, because of whatever emotional problems he has. It sounds like you got upset quite a bit. You haven’t been talking, but then you have changed your mind about him and saying he is better than anyone you know. What changed? I guarantee whatever problems you guys have together, have not changed. Are you wanting to step back into the same relationship again? Whatever his emotional problems are, they are probably the same. So why are you wanting to get him back? It sounds like you guys had a really difficult relationship.
Would you mind explaining further?
Heidi
Oh Cindi. I’m sooooo so sorry. Of course you cried your pretty hard. All hope is gone now. He returned the key and that represented a really big ending to you. You know now that he really has nothing left in him that wants to re-connect. The hope is gone. I know how painful that is. You had sooooo much love and so many hopes and dreams built around this guy. You thought you were done. You believed you had finally figured it out and that your beautiful heart could settle on someone healthy who FINALLY treated you well. And all of that just got blown to pieces. It hurts and there is no way around that. I would never wish that pain on anyone. It’s deep and it’s confusing and it’s not fair. I’m so sorry Cindi.
I’m proud of you that you had a good conversation with his mom. Well done! That door has now closed. You have fought for yourself and made some very difficult decisions because your self-love is growing Cindi. That is the GREATEST gift coming out of all of this. You may have lost him, but in that loss, you are connecting and protecting yourself more deeply!!! You are changing the course of your life in a good way with all of these very difficult decisions you are making. You can’t see it now, but down the road, when all is healed and you have moved on, you will look back at this time and be FULL of gratitude for the pieces of yourself you found, connected to, and the all the gifts you received because of this heartbreak.
Keep your head up. Even though your heart is breaking and you feel like a failure, you keep your head up and be PROUD of yourself. You loved again and you are healing again. That takes strength, courage, and resilience.
Heidi
I feel like it’s not over, and I’m finally comfortable saying that. What does this mean to you? I don’t understand this statement.
I went to my girlfriend’s house that also just went through a horrible breakup recently and we both just cried and cried. It was really healing and helpful to release a lot of that pain. What a beautiful evening you both had together. I LOVE it!!! I remember learning about embodiment practices and we were learning about dance and using it to express emotion. The teacher said, don’t just dance your own anger of betrayal, dance everyone’s anger of betrayal. Dance everyone’s hurt from betrayal. Include the collective and help clear the energy for everyone. And when she directed us to include the collective in our dance, it made it soooooo much more powerful and purposeful and it was a completely different perspective. I’m saying this because there is power, beauty, and healing when you join with someone else who understands the pain and you cry together. You feel together. You express together. I love that you both had this experience with each other! It’s truly beautiful! Maybe you guys can create a weekly meetup where you both purposefully and consciously work together through all the feelings. Maybe you meet for a dance, for a yoga class, for a playful event. Maybe you guys meet once per week to just do something joyful, silly, and fun to make sure you guys are still activating that beautiful healing energy. Help each other!
I also started doing some somatic yoga, and it also made me cry. It feels good sometimes now. It doesn’t last all day, but I’m getting glimpses again. You are in the next level of healing. Yayayayaa! You are not being consumed by it, you are not obsessing as much, you are taking your life back, and you Cindi, you ARE healing!!! You are doing such great work and I get to witness that beautiful strength rise within you, that will make you the strongest you have ever been in your entire life. It’s time that you step into your power. It’s time that you step into your voice. It’s time that you elevate your level of self-love and truly connect into the value and sacredness of your heart, so you don’t hand it over to just anyone anymore. This experience with this guy was soooooo important to help wake you up to a higher level of functioning. You needed to fall in love and learn how to see how that love you felt was still dysfunctional and harming you. Even though it was the best you had ever been treated, it still was not enough. You are learning through all of this, the strength that you have to recover and heal yourself from the greatest heartbreak. You NEED to know that about yourself. Your children NEED to witness this about you, because they are watching their role model handle loss and fighting for herself in healthy ways.
I’m also going to stop replying to his mother’s messages. Stop checking his Facebook, and all of his friends Facebook. If he wants to come to me, he will, when the time is right, and we’re both ready for the conversation. Yes! Good job! You are ready to let go on another level.
Just something to look forward to….you will know you have COMPLETELY healed when you are indifferent. Meaning, you don’t have a need to check social media. When you think about him, you send him good thoughts and wish him well, but there is ZERO desire to interact with him. You are neutral. You are not angry or hurt, nor are you wishing to re-connect. You won’t have a need to have a conversation with him, because no matter what he says, it won’t impact how you feel, because you are healed. The door is closed. And whatever happened doesn’t matter anymore, so his feelings are just his feelings and your need to understand just isn’t there anymore. You are indifferent. No amount of information is needed, because you are complete. That’s what it looks like and feels like to truly be healed. As long as you still have parts of yourself needing ANYTHING from him or needing to know about him, you are not done with your healing. Occasionally what I would do after a super hard breakup, is I would test myself. I would ask myself “What would I feel if I saw him walking and holding hands with another woman?” If I had a hurt reaction or a jealous reaction or any other reaction other than feeling happy for him, then I knew I was NOT complete in my healing. I would also check social media once in a while to see how I would feel as I observed his life. What thoughts and feelings would come up for me? If I felt anything other than being happy for him, then I knew I was not done with my healing. If I felt anything other than complete and utter peace while checking his life, then I was not done with my healing. A big mistake a lot of people make, is assuming they are healed, just because they don’t think about the person anymore. My coach tells me all the time, “I don’t care if you there is a tiny sliver of emotion left. You get at it! If you leave a splinter in your finger, no matter how small it is, it carries the potential for infection and although it’s small, it’s still a daily dose of small amounts of pain. Love yourself enough to heal completely and DO NOT accept ANY amount of pain that doesn’t need to be there.” My point is, I know you have a ways to go with your healing, but I wanted you to get a clear picture of what healing actually is. You want to clear ALL of this 100% through and through, so that when you step into your next relationship, you are more clear, wise, discerning, and you are attracting someone who functions at a much higher level, because YOU are functioning at a higher level. You don’t want this current guy to leave an imprint that ends up affecting your next experience, right? You want to clear this guy out of your system 100%. Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Cindi! I am so proud of you that you KEEP THINGS MOVING! You keep meditating, you are tapping, you are crying, you are journaling…YES YES YES!!!! Listen…it’s so important for you to know that your anger and your tears of full of a LIFETIME of hurt, abandonment, and not being fought for. This isn’t just about him, it’s about every other person who made you feel the same way through their limited choices. It’s about your ex husband. It’s about your role models as a child. So KEEP CRYING! DO NOT avoid the pain. You have YEARS of stuff that is ready to come out and be released, and this current guy is just the icing on the cake. You have a lot of layers to work through, so stick with it!!!
I’ve journaled several times, but feel like it just brings out the pain and confusion I’m feeling Keep journaling. Maybe expand your feelings and instead of talking about the hurt from this current guy, allow yourself to tap into the pain and confusion of other situations you have been carrying on your shoulders. You have baggage FULL of painful and confusing stories. Journal about those too! Open up Pandora’s box and just let it all come out!!! It’s time for you to have your FULL voice, FULL feelings, FULL expression of everything that has been buried for a long time.
His mom keeps talking to me on my stories on Facebook It might be best for you to disconnect from her for a while. It’s not appropriate for you guys to stay connected while you are trying to heal. It’s not appropriate that she is not honoring her son’s wishes and supporting his choice. She needs to stop reaching out to you. Maybe down the road when you are more healed and you both feel a connection with each other, THEN you can reach out, but otherwise, a breakup with him means a breakup from everyone in his life. Honor his choice and stop connecting with HIS mother and love yourself enough to close the door, so you can continue to move forward. This relationship with her is stunting your growth and healing.
I also wanted to say that these conversations have been my lifeline the last couple weeks, and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you and your support. Oh Cindi! I am so honored you have stayed connected and continued to share your experience with me. I love that I get to be part of this VERY VERY difficult time for you and help you feel supported. You are one of the very few who have continued to ask for support during the most difficult times. You are incredibly strong and facing some really big fears and you are learning you CAN do this!!! Who you are becoming is stronger, more intelligent, more loving, and more powerful each day that you fight for yourself!
Heidi
