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Hi Amy,
Wow! You have a lot going on. Thank you for sharing your story with us and reaching out for help.
I am sooooo so sorry for all that have had to endure in your life. You’ve been through an incredible amount of trauma and you still carry the energy of all of it, every single day. I’m glad you are working with a psychiatrist. Any chance you can start to work with a therapist? Go to emdr.com and see if you can find a therapist in your area with that skillset. It’s on of the quickest methods to help clear PTSD. You can also go to eftunivers.com. They have a method to help clear trauma out of the body as well that you can start using yourself, however with the kind of trauma you have, I highly recommend working with someone or becoming part of a group or something. You are not meant to work through this kind of stuff alone.
As far as him trusting you, he can’t. You can’t even trust yourself. You have strong patterns to sabotage connection cheating. He has also chosen that path now too. So there is A LOT of work you BOTH need to do in order to release and forgive each other as well as people from the past if you guys are ever going to recover from this. Do you think that is something he would be willing to do?
Maybe you can say something like this: “Listen, I know you can’t trust me. I don’t trust myself right now. I have a lot of hurt that I am carrying around and I end up sabotaging connection with you because of it. I want to finally face my past and become the person that I know I am deep inside, beyond the hurt that I carry. I want to work with someone by myself, but would you be willing to work with someone together? We love each other and I deeply want to create a relationship with you that feels safe, solid, nourishing and connected. I believe we can do that. I want to fight for that. Would you be willing to create that with me?”
The Gottman Institute has some very powerful relationship articles, therapists, workshops, books on creating a healthy relationship. Check them out and use them as a resource together. http://www.gottman.com
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Ecaterina,
Great question! I wish we could answer this for you, but it’s just a guessing game at this point. I would say the guy is interested enough to keep connecting and that’s enough for right now. Girls get really confused if a guy doesn’t initiate at least a kiss right from the beginning. I know plenty of guys who like to take things slower than that and I’ve heard a gazillion stories from those guys how the girls end up throwing themselves at them, trying to catch their attention because the girl thinks he doesn’t like them. It’s funny really. It’s a common social program going on between men and women.
For now, I would assume he just takes things slower…which is good! He is asking questions, he is making plans with you (at least until his grandfather died) and it’s enough to keep things moving forward for right now. Do you guys flirt at all?
I would keep reaching out asking how he is doing and if there is anything you can do. You can even say something like, “In honor of your grandfather, how about we meet up for happy hour and you can tell me all about him.”
I know I’m not giving you a clear cut answer. There’s just not enough to go on to say whether he is a slow moving guy or just not really interested. My best guess is that he is slow moving and is going to be even slower moving now that he lost his grandfather. Do you know if they were really close?
Heidi
Hi Christina,
Welcome! We are really glad you are here. You really have been through A LOT!!! Do you know why you stayed for so long? What kept you in a marriage that was not fulfilling your needs? I’m sure you and your therapist have discussed this a lot, but we’d love to hear the basics, so we can support you as well.
My first thought is, go VERY SLOW!!! You have been in the “desert” for sooooooo long and someone comes along and offers you a big glass of water. You drink it right up and it’s the best water you have EVER tasted. The problem is, when you (or any of us) is in scarcity, we don’t have much clarity. This water you are drinking could be full of toxins and you wouldn’t know because the water just tastes so dam good. So that’s why I want to invite you to keep things VERY slow while you get to know this new you. Just because he wants you and makes you feel really good and safe, DOES NOT mean he is good in relationship and that he is a good partner.
Let’s just start here first….do you want more children? That, in and of itself, is a deal-breaker if you don’t. It also sounds like he is really ready to start growing roots with someone. He is ready for marriage, family and love. You are just now exiting that whole scenario. That means you guys are fundamentally on VERY different pages. You have to figure out who the heck you are. You are not ready to jump into another serious relationship and build a whole new family again. I know your marriage has been “dead” for a long time, but it doesn’t change that you were married, that you chose that design for a long time, that you have to create a new version of yourself and you have TONS of thoughts and programs you need to undo. All of that takes time. You aren’t even officially divorced yet and that moment can also be quite impactful for people.
I would just suggest telling this guy that you are taking things slow and you would love to have fun, but the thought of marriage, kids and that jazz is not something you are able to consider at the moment. You have to do some healing first and get rid of the baggage before you are truly available for the next person. Tell him you would love to continue hanging out and connecting, but that’s all it’s going to be for right now.
Thoughts?
Heidi
OMG! I would be depressed too! Living in that much negativity is incredibly challenging. You could do it if you had the mountains and a beautiful environment around you that could fill you back up, but you don’t even have that. No wonder you are struggling.
I’m wondering if God brought you to that project so you could shift the energy. It’s obviously much needed. These men need some serious help!! One technique I use is to designate a journal specifically for creation. If there is something I need to shift or change or need to go a certain way, I write in that journal. I write down exactly what I need to have happen, but I write it in present tense as if it is happening. For example, I have surgery coming up in a few weeks and it’s a risky one. Nothing directly life-threatening, but high risk in the sense that it’s easy for things to get damaged if the surgeon is not careful. So I’m writing in my journal EXACTLY how I want the surgery to go. How I’m feeling, how the surgical staff is feeling, how I’m easily recovering etc. I’ve also sent that exact image to my support team and asked for them to hold that vision in their minds as well. I’ve used this approach many times and have watched how it shifts my situation. So how about you write down (or type) how you want your day to go, how you want your work environment to feel, how you want to feel on your weekends etc. Everything from the weather to the people to your job to your mood etc. Then send it out to people who can support and pray for this vision. Make sure you post it here as well and Spyce and I will also hold the vision for you. This work environment needs to shift and you are the person to do it. This is God’s work, right? Then I want you to continue to post here about all the things, from small to big, that are positive and working well. It may be a small list to start, but I guarantee you, if you are diligent with this process, the list will start to grow. Watch the magic happen Rhonda. These people need your light. Are you willing to do this?
Is Garfield the guy you kind of like that we talked about your responses to him? The one who is good looking, active and treats women well?
Heidi
Hi Annika,
I’m glad to know that you are very forgiving and understanding! It’s such an important quality to have if any relationship is going to work. I know you understand where he is coming from and why he did what he did. What you are not connecting to though, is that he chose to cheat. Yes, it’s been hard since Covid…for everyone. What we are seeing about people is HOW they handle their stress. He has shown you that under enough pressure and under enough stress, he will break his integrity. That will not change unless he truly addresses his core fears and establishes new, healthier ways to handle stress when it shows up. I’m not saying to end things. What I am saying is that when something this big occurs in a relationship, taking a DEEP dive into the core root causes of the challenges is crucial. What I’m basically saying is that he will break his integrity again. He may not cheat, but he will break his word or sabotage in some sort of way at some point again. He is even still connecting with another woman right now and wanting to step into a poly situation, and not for healthy reasons. He is being super connective now because he finally was honest and his fear of losing you is bigger than his fear of getting close to you and he feels some relief from no longer hiding what he did. Eventually, the dynamics will change again because he is not addressing/healing the core, deep fears that caused him to break his integrity in the first place. I’m only shining a light on this for you so you know what you are walking into and you know what to pay attention to.
I completely understand your need for a visit. I hope this brings you clarity in the way you are hoping for. Are you considering doing the poly thing with him? What have you guys discussed as far as the next steps for your relationship? How are you currently feeling about all of it?
Heidi
OH! and I LOVE LOVE LOVE how excited you are to see him on Friday. It feels so good to connect with someone and be on the same page. It sounds like you guys are working through things really well so far. I’m excited for you!!!!
Hi Cindy,
I totally get it. A lot of the dating/relationship marketing and propaganda activates fear in people. That kind of marketing is everywhere, right? I tell people it’s good practice to get your fears activated! It allows you to practice new programming you create for yourself like what you just said: Another day, sun shines and I’ve grown that much more! That is a thought you would want to insert into your thinking/energy every single time a fear shows up.
One of my favorite resources is the Gottman Institute. https://www.gottman.com. It’s not specifically focused on men, but instead relationship. Who you are compared to them and how to work through the challenges and celebrate/magnify the goodness. The way I personally look at it is this….there are ALWAYS 3 entities when it comes to love and relationship. 1. YOU 2. THEM 3. THE LIFESTYLE
The 3rd entity will make or break your relationship. The lifestyle is what you and him will create together….how you treat each other, the baggage that gets activated, how you interact in your best and worst times. You have to LOVE the lifestyle that gets birthed from the both of you. Most people get so mixed up in “But I love him and I don’t want to let him go” but at the same time they don’t love the lifestyle. You can learn all you want about men and it is helpful, but I would also encourage you to more deeply understand the inner workings of what make a relationship successful.Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Rhonda,
I am so sorry you are dealing with depression again. Are you connected to what has triggered it? What are you doing to help yourself through this?
You are so much more than just a thing. You DO exist and there are PLENTY of people around you to remind you of that. I love that you got a compliment about your talents from Victor. You are getting some great feedback about your work! You matter Rhonda. You make an impact and you shift/change the energy of everywhere you go.
Keep talk about this. What are some of the other thoughts and feelings coming up? Maybe consider finding a therapist. You go through these depression episodes enough that it would be so helpful to have someone to work with you through these phases.
Heidi
It’s hard to do it at any age! Navigating relationships requires skill and growth and without fail…risk. That means fears and limiting beliefs about love and low self-esteem are going to be part of the path.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE that he was willing to admit and acknowledge that something is there and that he is willing to work through it. That’s a man worth getting to know. And with you having the patience as well as being a bit ahead of him on the path of grief and recovery, you guys can truly navigate this journey with grace.
We are honored that we got to be part of your process. Well done for reaching out! You’re one of the smart ones!
We are always here for you, so feel free to reach out anytime!
Heidi
Hi Annika,
Thank you for sharing your story with us. It sounds extremely chaotic and very difficult. I am so so sorry that you are having to go through all of this.
It’s not actually that complicated or confusing. The problem with ALL the ladies involved (including yourself) is you are giving way too much power to him. You all have these strong connected feelings for him and overlooking the MASSIVE RED FLAGS that would tell you he DOES NOT have the ability to offer any of you what you want. Here are the facts:
1. He has impregnated 2 women – of which he has no intention of being in a relationship with (very uncaring)
2. He essentially has been cheating on you
3. He wants a poly relationship because he wants it all without having to face his real fear of intimacy
4. He is stringing along both of you and not wanting to hurt anyone, yet he is the one who has created this whole situation in the first place and is doing NOTHING to create resolution.Basically, this guy is a MESS! He is letting his fear guide his life. His fear got him connected to 2 other women, of which he is having children with, he has stayed with you for over 3 years not expecting the relationship to go anywhere and now he is afraid of hurting one of you??? The guy needs to NOT be in a relationship. He is not honest with himself and is not willing to really look at and deal with his core feelings of fear and intimacy, so instead he wants to do a poly relationship??? He can’t even handle you with honesty and integrity and he wants to add another one into the mix? Yikes! That’s disaster waiting to happen.
I want to encourage you to really look at what you are stepping into. His life is a mess. He is a mess. He is going to be a dad of 2 different children and he admitted to being terrified of loving you. He can barely provide for himself and now he will have 2 children to help support. His life is only going to get more complicated and his fears will only grow. Don’t you want a guy who will face his fears? Don’t you want a guy you can feel emotionally safe with? Don’t you want a guy who is a good communicator and tells you what he is REALLY feeling and works through things with you? Don’t you want a guy who doesn’t settle for “average” and fights for more in his life??
You really want to spend your vacation time to go visit to “see how you feel?” I think you probably know how you feel, but maybe not willing to truly admit it to yourself.
So why not express your feelings here. What are your thoughts about what he has done and the kind of person he has chosen to be in his life? Do you respect him? Do you feel emotionally safe with him?
Heidi
Good to hear from you! This is a great update…thanks for sharing!
Yes, he is smitten for sure. It sounds like you guys are on a similar page and enjoying each other. That’s wonderful!
And I just do not want to mess this up!!! Let’s talk about this for a bit. Most people have this fear, so let’s take a bit of deeper dive into it. How do you think you could mess this up? What are your typical sabotage patterns? The truth is, there is NO WAY you can mess this up all by yourself. It takes 2…always. We ALL are messy, right? So we need to have a partner who is forgiving and understanding and accepting of that side of ourselves and vice versa. So if this guy is not accepting of when you mess things up, because you will, then he isn’t the best kind of partner for you. As long as you always take ownership for your reactions/behaviors and you learn and grow from them, then that is the very best you can do, right? Hopefully, he is the same way and then you guys have a pretty solid foundation for being able to work through the challenges that the experience of love is guaranteed to bring up. So this fear of yours is inevitable. So let’s step into the worst of it. If you do something that causes him to completely disconnect, TRUST YOURSELF that you will be okay. You are strong, resilient, resourceful and desirable, yes??? That means that you can completely recover and manifest a new experience of love/connection. If you can fully and completely trust yourself in this way, you can relax into the fear and not let it be dominant in your life.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Miss M,
Thank you for sharing more info. I think it’s time for a talk. From what you are sharing, you guys are definitely NOT on the same page and it’s important that you are if you are going to move forward.
Here is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to remember whenever talking about a difficult subject. ACTIVATE CURIOSITY. When you need to “confront” someone about their behavior, it’s important to remember that YOU have a story about their behavior. So first be curious about yourself. It’s not HIS fault that you got upset about the Tinder thing. That’s on you. So what story did you have running in your mind that would cause you to bolt vs. working through things with him in the moment? Second, take responsibility for your reactions and feelings. Again, these are YOUR stories that are causing to react the way you do. Take ownership of those feelings and get curious about where those feelings are coming from. The truth is, you could create 100s of different stories about a situation, but for whatever reason, your mind has attached to 1 of those stories and that story is what is causing hurt. Third, know that he has stories too. So when confronting, be curious about HIS story vs. trying to push your story onto him. The stories we attach too comes from a place of hurt and lies that we are choosing to believe in. So if you understand the core of where he is coming from, you can actually see that his actions have to do with HIM. In relationships, we all trigger each other, so if each person can take responsibility for their own actions, get curious about each other’s stories and then work together towards healing/resolution….we wouldn’t have a divorce rate hanging out around 50%. So this is a really good time for you to start to develop your relationship skills.
Here is an idea of how you can bring up the subject: “Listen…it seems that things are a bit different between you and I since our argument about Tinder. It feels like when we are in person, everything is so wonderful and amazing and then when we are apart, it feels like you are less connected than you were before we had that argument. I’m wondering if maybe I did some damage, so I thought I would just ask straight up…..” How does saying something to the effect feel for you?
I WOULD NOT bring up your hurt feelings about the beach or him asking if you were going on a date. You can use these scenarios as examples as to why you feel like he is more disconnected, but it would not be the time to talk about your hurt feelings around it. This conversation is more about checking to see if you guys are on the same page or not. Does this make sense? Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Susan,
First, you did NOT ruin anything by asking. If he ends up pulling away and disconnecting, then that is something you need to know about him. He TRULY is not ready for anything honest or intimate, so in my opinion, better to know that sooner than later…AND…you being honest and talking about a tough subject is GOOD for him. He is sending a lot of mixed signals, probably because he is unsure about this next phase of dating. Talking about things can really help and he gets to learn that you are someone he is safe to be honest with. Having these tough conversations is a GOOD way of getting to know each other.
Maybe what you can do is start to prime him a little bit. Start to ask questions about his life that are deeper questions and not about your relationship together. This can help him get more comfortable exposing himself to you. So you can ask things like “What was your reputation in high school?” “What kinds of things are on your bucket list?” “What’s the worst heartbreak you have ever been through? (not including the loss of his wife)” “If there were moments in his life he could go back and revisit, what moments would those be and why?” These kinds of questions can really expose him as a person on a deeper level. You can help him slowly get more comfortable with you. I would ALSO say this to him: “I know that our conversation the other day was awkward and it seemed hard for you. I just want you to know that I really appreciate you hanging in there with me. I’m clear that you do not want a serious relationship right now and I’m okay with that. I want you to feel comfortable just being yourself and we can just take 1 day at a time. I would like to talk a little further about it at some point. Would you be open to going out to nice dinner in a few weeks and we can talk a little more about it over a glass of wine? No pressure if you are not ready yet.”
Thoughts?
Heidi
Okay….I’m thinking that describing feminine energy may be difficult for you because you are not quite sure what it is. I think you have some idea, but it sounds like it’s an energy you are less familiar with. It’s not unusual though, especially for people who grew up with strong religious programming. So let’s help you get more clear about this, because feminine energy is sooooooo much more than a skirt and pleases and thank yous. When you put a skirt on or say thank you when a guy opens the door, what EXACTLY do you feel inside? How would you describe what you feel like when you put a skirt on or when a guy opens the door for you?
I also want to give you an analogy that I LOVE that describes the relationship between male and female energy….both in a relationship AND the masculine and feminine energies that live within each of us. The female energy is powerful, multi-directional, creative, tangential, adventurous….like a stream or river. The masculine energy helps give a general direction…like the shoreline to the water. The male energy is more silent and guides the female energy in a respectful and quiet and solid way. The water can move as fast or slow as it wants, it can move in a million different directions, it can be playful etc. Does this kind of analogy make sense for you?
Lastly, I want to encourage you to be a little less available for this guy. You came out of the gate offering quite a few compliments about things that you actually don’t know about him yet. Maybe offer just 1 or 2 at the most and make sure they are compliments that are actually valid. With how you have responded to him, you come across as EASILY available and you don’t create any kind of energy that would make him feel like he has to work for you. For example, “I’m also impressed with your active lifestyle and how you treat women. I think we have lots to share and talk about – too much for now.” You actually have no idea how active he REALLY is or how he actually treats women, until you have many experiences with him to see what he is like across all kinds of situations. If he is a good looking man, I’m sure many women are throwing themselves at him, as a good looking older man is hard to find. So I imagine he is used to getting a TON of compliments and women trying to appeal to him. So if you present yourself in a way that lets him know you KNOW you are a badass woman and he would be lucky to get to know you….he will be attracted to that MUCH MORE than a woman who comes across as “eager.” Instead of saying I think we have lots to share and talk about – too much for now….I would just delete that line and share I will share that my favorite sweatshirt says, “Underestimate me. That will be fun.” (playful wink) This was great! It’s funny, it’s charming and playful. That says enough about you at this point. You also saying he earned “brownie points” is kind of presumptuous that he is even interested in earning brownie points with you and saying he was kind, thoughtful and generous is overdoing it. Stay more simple by saying “that was really nice of you to help your friend move. Having moved many times myself, I know it’s not the most fun thing to do.” All of this that you said was great: Then I said OOOoooooooo (bashful smile) (said softly, playfully with sly wink) I like your idea of an adventure. (blush) May I ask for Welches Sparkling Strawberry Daiquari, though, as I don’t drink – at all. I’ll explain later if you’d like. Then asked how his week was going. I’m not sure if there are actual emojis in the parentheses or are you actually writing out those words?
Also, I would recommend to avoid super simple and uninteresting questions that are pretty mundane for most people like “how was your week? or are you tired?” Those are questions that regular people ask each other all the time. You want to ask him questions that are unusual and fun to answer and will keep him engaged and interested. You want to stand out compared to the rest of the people. So another way to ask that same question would be “If you were to rate your week from 1-10, how good was it? If it is less than a 10, what would have made it a 10?” Or you could have asked more about the adventure he started to create with you.
Does all of this make sense??? I know I picked apart your response, but I want you to know that you have come such a long way compared to where you started! You are much more confident, you are much more grounded and centered and overall, your response to him was great! The one pattern you have that keeps showing up is over complimenting someone. That’s really about it and that can easily be shifted. So lets look at that pattern you have. What is happening inside of you that you feel you need to dowse a man with compliments? What are you hoping to accomplish? I know you want to make him feel good, but I know enough about you to know there is an insecurity that underlies that intention. If you didn’t offer so many compliments, what do you think would happen? Do you think they may not be interested in you? Just some things to think about….
You seriously are badass Rhonda. Any guy would be lucky to have you!!!
Heidi
Hi Pearlyn,
Okay…I get it. Yes there is ALWAYS a chance of reconciliation and there isn’t. There is just no possible way to predict what will happen. My suggestion is to TRULY let him go and DO NOT hold out for hope. Create full and complete closure in your heart. Close the door on the idea of you and him together. I suggest this because it allows you to move on with your life. If you guys end up crossing paths again and some sparks fly, then you guys can deal with it then. OR…someone else can come into your life that is more on the same page as you. Either way, creating an ending is really important so you then become available for whatever is next. As long as you keep attached to him, you are not truly available for a new experience. I’d hate to see that happen for you.
So it’s time to go pick up your stuff and face the hurt that comes with letting him go. I promise it will get easier with time. Go rip off the bandaid and find out you’re okay!
Thoughts?
Heidi
