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Oh wow!!! Good job!!! So you said that the distance is just too much??? That’s a really good excuse and he can’t argue about that one. How did he take it? Did you guys talk about it further or was it just a short conversation?
Heidi
Hi San,
Welcome! Thank you for sharing your story with us here.
I understand that you want something deeper with him. I just have a few questions.
You want to have a committed relationship with this guy? Other than having sex, do you guys do anything else together? How are the conversations? Do you know if he is having sex with anyone else?
First, it’s important for you to understand that when men get to have sex frequently and often without needing to put much effort in, it’s pretty difficult to pull them into a relationship where more is required of them. With this guy having 2 divorces and being VERY clear upfront that he doesn’t want anything serious, I want to encourage you to listen to him. From what it sounds like, he is not that invested. He gets to have frequent sex and occasionally cook you dinner, but my guess is that is about as far as he is willing to go. It’s not about you pulling him deeper into wanting to be with you, it’s about him dealing with his past. If he doesn’t want to face his fears about falling in love again, there is nothing you can do about that. He will most likely just keep finding women he can have sex with, without all the relationship requirements. What guy would want to give that up?
I’m curious…knowing he wanting something casual and that he wasn’t interested in a relationship, what made you connect with him? You want something very different than him, so hooking up with him goes against what you were wanting. Did you think you might change his mind? Did you think that maybe you could stay casual and being in a serious relationship could be for a later time?
Heidi
Hi Alice,
What in particular do you think makes you a lousy human being? All I see and hear from you are very normal and human thoughts and feelings that come along with being in a relationship…especially one that doesn’t function very well. A lot of what you felt is IMPORTANT. Your reactions are appropriate and are there to catch your attention. The discomfort you felt is meant to create movement. All of our feelings are NOT facts. All feelings are for, is to get our attention. Feelings are the expressions of the stories we choose to attach to situations. We can’t control the feelings, but we CAN control the dialogue/story we create around those feelings. Does this make sense?
So now I think to myself: could there be a way to transform this relationship with R? Do you really want to work that hard? This statement is basically saying that he is not enough, just as he is and things need to change. First, this is not accepting him for exactly who he is and it is not honoring your needs. You want to take something broken and piece it back together. Do you know what would be required for that? A TON of work! Most of all, he would have a lot of personal work to do for himself before he is any good for you. Again, you would be spending all of your energy trying to change him and the relationship to fit your mold and that’s just a recipe for disaster. He deserves to be loved for EXACTLY who he is, not who he could be. You deserve to have a man who is already high functioning and able to meet you on your level. I’m wondering why you keep trying to make R fit. Is it because you want to be with someone? Because you deeply love him and don’t want to let him go? Because you are rebounding from A? Because he is giving you attention? What are your deep, true reasons for wanting to try and make it work with R?
Heidi
Thank you for sharing more! Let’s talk about a few different things here.
I have struggled with giving him confidence when I don’t necessarily agree with what he is doing. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you said this because it is something every person in a relationship faces many, many times. It can be a breaking point for a couple or it can be a strengthening point…depending on how it’s handled….so this is great practice for you!!! Here is a bigger truth that is important for you to connect to…your viewpoint is just that…YOUR viewpoint. We each have our own stories that we attach to about everything that happens. Those stories sometimes align with our partner and sometimes they oppose our partner. One of the best ways to get closer to aligning with his stories is to get curious. So instead of thinking that you are right or have the better story than him, how about you go deeper into HIS story and try to understand where it’s coming from. What do you understand about his choices? Have you ever really sat down and just talked about his perspective, his feelings, his fears, his visions about his life and you? Imagine you are a reporter. Do you think you have enough information about him to be able to write a detailed article about him and his beliefs, fears, etc.? What’s his belief about love? What is his vision as far as the kind of relationship he wants to experience? What is he afraid will happen if he separates from his mom? These are the kinds of starter questions you want to ask and then ask deeper and deeper questions until you fully and completely understand what his story is. You don’t need to agree, but you do need to understand. Then from there, you have to trust his process. That’s what support is. It’s trusting he will figure this out one way or another. It most likely won’t be fast enough or aligned enough with what you want, but that’s the dance of relationship.
meantime I don’t know how to pull him back in to see that I am got enough to be a long term partner. This is you NOT trusting his process and trying to push YOUR agenda onto him. You actually don’t want to pull him back into anything. He NEEDS to go through this. It’s part of him becoming a man and establishing himself…kind of like a right of passage. He HAS to separate from his mom, all on his own. He HAS to fight for himself and for what he really wants to create. From everything you are saying, he is behaving very much like how a high schooler would behave. In high school, we are developing our identity so we care a lot more about what people think about us. Again, he still has a lot of growing up to do, so you would be doing him AND YOU a disservice by trying to pull him back into a relationship with you just so you can have him back. Love him enough to let him go through this in his own time. The more you try to push against what is happening for him, the worse you will make it for the both of you. Even if you talked him back into a relationship with you or moving in with you, you would only be stunting his growth, of which the problem will just arise again later on. If you don’t trust his process, then you shouldn’t be with him anyways. That’s a HUGE part of a successful relationship – feeling safe with your partner and trusting they are going to get through the challenges that show up. If you don’t feel that with him, then it won’t work and all you’ll end up doing is being his mom, telling him what he should and shouldn’t be doing. So don’t be his mom and push your agenda onto him. Does this make sense?
So what you want to do is understand his story and then respect and honor what needs to happen for him in this phase of his life. That might mean walking away and not watching him date other girls. If that’s how he wants to go through this, then that is information you need to know about him, right? It might mean that you just show up as a really good friend. Be there for him to talk to. Share articles, podcasts, books etc. and also keep educating yourself. Have fun together. The more you guys bond through deep conversations and your support of his process right now, combined with fun…that’s a pretty good recipe for success. But again, you still have to keep yourself in check and make sure you are setting clear boundaries for yourself and that you are not just living for him. You still need to exist in this relationship.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Samantha,
Wow! You have a pretty tough situation on your hands. He is 25ish, now and how old are you? I”m so sorry for what you have to deal with.
I just have a few questions. Do you know why his mom is so against him being with you? Is it you in particular or is it any girl? I’m not sure if her agenda is about keeping him single for a while or keeping him away from you.
There is some valid truth to staying single in the 20s. It’s such a crucial time of development and when people get hooked up with each other, they end up developing through and with their partner vs. really discovering who they are. The younger someone gets married, the higher the odds of wanting to go “re-live” their younger years is. There are studies on this. Whenever a person skips their developmental years, there is a very strong and instinctive need to go back to that time and re-experience it. So the first thing I want to encourage you to do, is to be open to receiving the truth that there are some very strong and valid reasons why staying single is VERY healthy in the 20s. You THINK you know what you want right now, but I will tell you that A LOT changes when you get closer to your 30s and enter into that decade. So again, do not so easily dismiss what his friends and mom are wanting for him. Validate it, understand it and know that it is something to really consider.
With that being said, it’s also really important for you to understand he hasn’t quite grown up yet. He is still VERY connected to mom and still really influenced by his friends. He still has some growing up to do. He needs to disconnect from everyone. Meaning, stand up for himself and what he wants, regardless of what others are pushing him into. He will be no good to you until he is able to do that for himself. What I suggest is to not fight him on what he is needing. He is deeply confused, as he should be. He loves you so much AND he is trying to separate from mom and friends and create his own identity. This is a VERY VERY hard thing to do. So let’s talk about what kinds of things can you do to support him, without losing yourself in the process. Share some ideas with us and let’s figure this out together. There are a lot of layers we need to work through, so be patient.
Heidi
Hahaha! I lOVE that you said that. Of course you don’t like what I said and I sure don’t blame you.
I’m curious…what would you have wanted me to say that would have made you feel good?
Heidi
I think I‘m also scared that the same will happen to me. This is what most people are afraid of. For you, your parents were role models for what love looked like and felt like. And then it fell apart and didn’t last. Do you know why your parents didn’t last and what caused the divorce? The truth is, there is no guarantee. That’s why love is so darn scary and why so many people are afraid of it. To open your heart is risky and is opening your life to beautiful and amazing things along with the opposite of being able to be hurt in a very deep and heartbreaking way. The way I view love is there is no such thing as “the one.” It’s possible to fall in and out of love many times in our lives, so there is “the one” for right now. That’s all that really exists in life anyways, right – the present moment? So yes, it’s possible to fall in love, get married and then years later get a divorce. There are qualities however, that can put the odds in your favor. I’ve coached many of my clients through discovering what their non-negotiables are and then dating from that mindset. The majority of the reasons why people get divorced are being poor relationship pickers. They don’t know how to truly choose a good long-term partner. Most people choose their lifemate based on feelings and deep connection they feel and many times their own woundedness and insecurities (although they don’t do it consciously). Choosing a life partner needs to be as intense and detailed and layered as going to an interview at a top 100 company. Tim needs to be interviewing for your heart. EVERYTHING he does and says needs to be taken into consideration. There are certain qualities you want to be looking for to see if he even has the foundation to support the kind of relationship you want to experience.
So let’s start here: What kind of relationship do you want? What do you want love to look like when you are married?
Last, but not least, the truth is that even if you end up divorced, you will be okay! You will recover, heal and get back up on your feet again and fall in love again. Trust in yourself that you can handle anything that shows up in your life.
Heidi
OMG! What a great story! Thank you for sharing!!!
Process emotions? I really don’t feel anger very often. Really don’t remember being angry with my boys. The ex isn’t worth thinking about. Parents? After all they went through while growing up, I can’t be angry with them. Sometimes I think I’ve lost the ability to feel anything…..Ha Ha except depression when I’m tired. Depression is anger turned inward. So although you don’t feel anger outwardly, you are more angry than you think. You just gave me a list of excuses as to why you don’t feel angry. They are all valid AND there is another side of you that was harmed by all those people, very deeply. It’s that part of you that carries the anger and hurt. There is a BIG HUGE world of emotions/programs/beliefs hanging out in your subconscious that I hope at some point you really start to access. I have no doubt that once you tap into all of that and transform the heavy emotions you carry, the depression will go away and you will feel like a completely different person.
I’m excited you get to go home too! I know how happy you are when you get to be there.
I am feeling better! Today is my first dr. appt. post surgery, so hopefully I will get to say goodbye to this catheter and I’ll start to be able to have more movement and energy. I had a tube coming out of my back that drained my kidney for 5 months that got removed right after this 2nd surgery, so I’m really looking forward to being tube free! Lol. You’re excited to go home and I’m excited to be tube free! It’s the simple things, right?
Heidi
Luckily my parents are still on good terms and we‘re still together as a family sometimes, but it‘s still not easy for me. WHat exactly is difficult for you?
I have shifted quickly when letting guys go. Sometimes, it just takes one thing that you hear or learn about that person and it’s enough to tip the scales in the other direction. Tim wasn’t 100% invested anyways. Most likely, he had a percentage of hope about her, but then learning something new about her, just caused him to finally be able to accept the truth and disconnect from his fantasy completely. We shall see though. Time will tell. I think it will be normal between you guys. I think you guys will just continue to grow closer together. He obviously has an incredible amount of respect for you. I have no doubt he will continue to connect and you guys will find an even deeper rhythm together.
It’s always uncomfortable knowing that you are going to hurt someone on purpose. You just need to look at it a little differently. You are hurting him by NOT being honest. Pain is always a great motivator. It’s possible that you disconnecting will cause enough hurt that he actually chooses something different for his life. Who knows. Either way, it’s a caring thing to do for yourself AND for him when you are authentic and honest. So even though it will hurt him and be uncomfortable, it’s much better than leading him on.
I would do it over the phone. If he lived a lot closer, it would be different. Traveling 5 hours for either of you, only to break up, is a lot and it’s not the smartest thing to drive after a breakup. There might be a ton of emotions that come up…who knows. It’s better to be safe. Do it over video if you want to do it in person. He may just say okay and get off quickly or he may want to talk more.
Stay away from pointing the finger at his drinking or anything he has done wrong. Stick with talking about yourself. “I just don’t feel like you are available in the way that I really need to feel good about moving forward.” “I need a man who is more available.” “I have a certain vision of the kind of relationship I will thrive in and there are just some things missing with us.” Make sense?
Heidi
What EXACTLY are you doing to forgive yourself? Being positive is NOT forgiving yourself. It’s just a bandaid. I gave you some resources. Have you looked anything up?
So if something changed these last few months, I’m wondering you think it has to do with your cheating. Has he directly said that to you? Have you talked to him specifically about these past few months and how it’s changed?
Heidi
Hi Anna,
I’m sorry the sex didn’t turn out so well with Paul. Give it some time. It can be really awkward at first. That’s the challenge with fantasies…they are typically way better than the real thing. You and Paul sound like you are good communicators, so it’s really about talking to each other about the experience, what worked, what didn’t work and then try again. Or try again and teach him during sex. I’m glad to hear you had a great conversation though! It’s great you guys are getting to know each other outside of the bedroom.
Everything you want Anna is about being in a relationship with someone. Right now, you don’t know enough about either guy to know they would be good partners. So for now, just keep things moving slowly. With Paul, you guys have agreed to a FWB kind of thing, which can really mess up the path of stepping into a relationship. If you want a relationship, then slow things down with Paul as well. I’m glad to hear that Ricky finally asked you for coffee. I get that you are nervous. That’s okay! How do you not be awkward? You stop worrying about it. Imagine yourself sitting in front of him, feeling confident in yourself, feeling like a queen, feeling centered and grounded, feeling relaxed and just having fun. He’s just a guy Anna. He’s no superhero. He is just as human and messed up as the rest of us. Take him off that pedastal and make him your equal, because that’s what he is. When are you meeting for coffee? I’m excited to hear how it goes.
Heidi
How are you feeling? How are things going with your guy? Are you starting to shift how you feel about yourself and cheating? Let’s keep talking about this!
Heidi
I’m curious….what is your baseline number (1-10) that is your standard as to how you want to feel about a man? I don’t mean just the attraction level, I mean the whole darn package? Meaning, is 5 your standard? If you at least feel a 5, that’s enough for you to move forward?
As far as your anger, I am more referring to how you process your emotions, not how you deal with someone in person. Do you ever tap into your anger when you are alone? Maybe when you have thoughts about your parents? Your kids? Your ex’s?
Sounds like Liam’s went well then. That’s very nice of him to help you out.
Heidi
Holy smokes!!! This is HUGE!!!! First, what an incredible person you are to be so honest with everyone involved and just straight up. No games, no hiding, no bullshit. Wow! I have an incredible amount of respect for you! You handled everything so beautifully.
I’m so sorry to hear that Tim doesn’t have more feelings for you. Again, I think it is still very possible, but will take more time. Now that he is TRULY letting go of Anna in his heart, that is one BIG barrier that will be gone soon. I love it! And I love that he wasn’t scared off by your feelings for him. I love how he appreciates you and I love how he is still making plans with you. His words of how important you are in his life are followed up by action. He truly means it!
Gosh, I am so sorry to hear about both of your parents. It’s very challenging and changes your entire world. My parents made it about 20 years. I love that you got to cry together and really bond through a very sad experience. You both can help each other through this and even bring some healing.
So tell me how you are feeling. What are some of your thoughts about all of this? How are you feeling now that you finally told him everything?
Heidi
